Please give us back Rapid Maneuver!

JoeCapricorn · August 2020

Please require "Assault" level 2 for Rapid Maneuver again.

Not all of my characters are PVP friendly but all of them use Rapid Maneuver for the extra mount speed when riding around the world. This is a very basic ability I require for a new character just to move around especially when mount speed is so low! PLEASE do not require assault level 5 for this, please undo this change!

Noisivid · August 2020

this, I've been running battleground in an attempt to grind alliance war skill line to get Rapids back. 3 hours so far and probably another hour to go. Multiply that by over ten non-pvp characters. I could just buy the skill line as it's maxed on a few actual PvP characters but no. I'm not going to do that even if they drop the cost to 500 crowns.

at this rate is will take me over 50 hours in game to grind back to where i was. I don't think that's going to happen either.

I'm seriously considering quitting the game.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · August 2020

Noisivid wrote: »

this, I've been running battleground in an attempt to grind alliance war skill line to get Rapids back. 3 hours so far and probably another hour to go. Multiply that by over ten non-pvp characters. I could just buy the skill line as it's maxed on a few actual PvP characters but no. I'm not going to do that even if they drop the cost to 500 crowns.

at this rate is will take me over 50 hours in game to grind back to where i was. I don't think that's going to happen either.

I'm seriously considering quitting the game.

Ummm no way dude if you have PvP characters you know how easy it is to get rank 5 heal if you pve toons are magic just pop on a healing staff and heal zergs for 30 minutes it’s literally the super fast way to grind PvP.

Sailor_Palutena · August 2020

If you join Cyrodill and do at least the tutorial quests you get 2-3 vl in both Assault and Support. [Snip]

[Edited for bait]

JoeCapricorn · August 2020

That would require doing that kind of a grind on 11 additional characters. It isn't as easy as doing just the tutorial quests either, Assault rank 5 requires 98,000 AP. That takes hours.

I don't have the time, motivation and energy to do that kind of grind on 11 characters.

I play ESO as an escape from reality, to destress, and Rapid Maneuver is a long-standing part of my gameplay. It's how I move around whenever I am on a mount. I have it on every bar on every character.

I have done the tutorial quests and it got me to Assault Level: 2. Whoop dee doo. If they required Assault level 3 for Rapids, maybe it wouldn't be so bad. But it is Assault level 5.

I don't have the time or mental energy to grind that out on all of my other alts. I am not going to. So I hope they change it back or find a compromise that makes everyone happy.

Many of my characters aren't built for PVP, they are mules and have no skillpoints allocated to weapons or armor. Just crafting. There is no way they would be able to get Assault to 5. But Rapid Maneuver forms a basic method of mobility. It allows me to get to a bank NPC (and when applicable) an Outlaw Hideout just to unload stuff or sell stuff on a guild trader.

It allows new characters to move around without feeling like their mounts are made of molasses. It will be 55 days before my lowbie gets 60 in speed.

Even then, 60 speed feels too slow. I like Rapids just to go faster. I just like going faster. You know what I would rather do? Grind for 11 other Rings of the Wild Hunt

[Edited for removed content] [Further edited to fix some grammar issues caused by previous edit]

SydneyGrey · August 2020

The issue is that we're so slow now that grinding Rapids again will take twice as long as grinding Vigor did before the change, because by the time we get to the fight, half the time it's too late and we missed it thanks to a super slow horse.
And if we're taken down by a ganker on our super slow horse on the way to the fight, there is ZERO chance we'll make it back to the fight in time.

Yeah, this change STINKS for a lot of people.

FrancisCrawford · August 2020

Sailor_Palutena wrote: »

If you join Cyrodill and do at least the tutorial quests you get 2-3 vl in both Assault and Support. [Snip]
[Edited for bait]

That's irrelevant to the grind of reaching Level 5 ... on a slow horse.

FrancisCrawford · August 2020

SydneyGrey wrote: »

The issue is that we're so slow now that grinding Rapids again will take twice as long as grinding Vigor did before the change, because by the time we get to the fight, half the time it's too late and we missed it thanks to a super slow horse.
And if we're taken down by a ganker on our super slow horse on the way to the fight, there is ZERO chance we'll make it back to the fight in time.

Yeah, this change STINKS for a lot of people.

Evidently, ZoS doesn't care about the customers who subscribe with multiple accounts because they so enjoy their PvE alts.

ZaroktheImmortal · August 2020

Sailor_Palutena wrote: »

If you join Cyrodill and do at least the tutorial quests you get 2-3 vl in both Assault and Support. [Snip]
[Edited for bait]

Yes, cause you can get around cyrodil uber fast without the rapids on all toons to level it up those other two levels right? Oh wait no it takes ages to get anywhere in cyrodil as is.

Noisivid · August 2020

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Noisivid wrote: »

this, I've been running battleground in an attempt to grind alliance war skill line to get Rapids back. 3 hours so far and probably another hour to go. Multiply that by over ten non-pvp characters. I could just buy the skill line as it's maxed on a few actual PvP characters but no. I'm not going to do that even if they drop the cost to 500 crowns.

at this rate is will take me over 50 hours in game to grind back to where i was. I don't think that's going to happen either.

I'm seriously considering quitting the game.

Ummm no way dude if you have PvP characters you know how easy it is to get rank 5 heal if you pve toons are magic just pop on a healing staff and heal zergs for 30 minutes it’s literally the super fast way to grind PvP.

um, "yeah, way dude".

I did't want to go into Cyro without Rapids as that's a pain due to traveling speeds. so I was running Battlegrounds. It's easy to check the time when you start and then when you stop. It's even easier to set a timer on your phone. This includes the que time, not just the time actually in the BG. So yeah, I'm dead certain about the time elapsed. And this would need to be done on multiple characters to get back a skill I've been using since launch.
It's just un-fun, kind of like when a serious PvPer has to run the same dungeon over and over and over to get that one piece of gear they need.

also, most of my characters are stam builds, only a few use vigor. They're all more than just "viable"

funny thing is if I had Rapids and needed to grind something out in PvP I would just go to Cyrodil and do it there. But I don't have Rapids on these characters anymore...

Jaraal · August 2020

Noisivid wrote: »

I did't want to go into Cyro without Rapids as that's a pain due to traveling speeds. so I was running Battlegrounds.

This. Lots of folks are joining matches and just going AFK and tabbing out to surf the web. Lose enough matches and you'll get there eventually.

keoma01 · August 2020

Everybody without exception needs rapid and quite a lot of people needs vigor as well. For first glance it almost doesn't matter which one is the first skill.
But in reality you need to follow a group in Cyrodiil if you want to level your skill line and without rapid it is a very frustrating experience. You can't go to resources in time and so on.
Rapid is a fundamental skill for being able to get vigor, but vigor doesn't really help you to get rapid.
Please drop hubris and change this back.

Ekzorka · August 2020

JoeCapricorn wrote: »

Please require "Assault" level 2 for Rapid Maneuver again.

They didn't listen during PTS, you think they will listen now?
---
BTW, thanks for amazing update, dear developers. You simplify puzzles in quests for those who don't like to think, you reworking skills for those who likes to press only one key, but you take away a skill from those who hating or having troubles with PVP.

Also thanks to that guy who reported about "no skill point refunded", now it's really not working.

stefj68 · August 2020

im totally fine with vigor
no need for rapid maneuver at all

2nd skills in the line could be decent for it

Jaraal · August 2020

keoma01 wrote: »

But in reality you need to follow a group in Cyrodiil if you want to level your skill line and without rapid it is a very frustrating experience. You can't go to resources in time and so on.

Ahhh, but there's a two person mount on test right now, coming soon to a Crown Store near you. Perhaps you should buy it and gift it to your friend(s) who have Rapids unlocked so they can haul your now slow butt around Cyro while you grind the AvA skill lines? Or maybe just buy the inevitable (literal) carry folks will undoubtedly be offering in zone chat for a small fee?

Elsonso · August 2020

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

SydneyGrey wrote: »

The issue is that we're so slow now that grinding Rapids again will take twice as long as grinding Vigor did before the change, because by the time we get to the fight, half the time it's too late and we missed it thanks to a super slow horse.
And if we're taken down by a ganker on our super slow horse on the way to the fight, there is ZERO chance we'll make it back to the fight in time.

Yeah, this change STINKS for a lot of people.

Evidently, ZoS doesn't care about the customers who subscribe with multiple accounts because they so enjoy their PvE alts.

They care about them plenty. If you have multiple accounts, you have to be willing to put in the work on multiple accounts. That is a given. Don't expect handouts from ZOS for that.

keoma01 wrote: »

Everybody without exception needs rapid

There are plenty of exceptions to that.

Exhale · August 2020

for

Jierdanit · August 2020

PvPers had to PvE to get their best gear for ages, i think the pve players can take that they now have to do pvp for more than 10 min because they want to have a skill that is purely a QoL improvement and does not change anything about how well they do in pve content.

Linaleah · August 2020

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Noisivid wrote: »

this, I've been running battleground in an attempt to grind alliance war skill line to get Rapids back. 3 hours so far and probably another hour to go. Multiply that by over ten non-pvp characters. I could just buy the skill line as it's maxed on a few actual PvP characters but no. I'm not going to do that even if they drop the cost to 500 crowns.

at this rate is will take me over 50 hours in game to grind back to where i was. I don't think that's going to happen either.

I'm seriously considering quitting the game.

Ummm no way dude if you have PvP characters you know how easy it is to get rank 5 heal if you pve toons are magic just pop on a healing staff and heal zergs for 30 minutes it’s literally the super fast way to grind PvP.

people keep claiming this number or even less. and it has NEVER been anything even close to this number in my experience at least.

I have several healing characters and I needed warhorn and purge on those characters. and so... pvp. out of 4, that I leveled for this purpose, the fastest I have EVER managed was during Midyear Mayhem (so double AP AND incentive for a LOT of people to queue up for pvp things) doing battlegrounds, lucking out with couple of random teams so that I got more wins than I expected.... and it took me just over 2 hours.

there is apparently double AP active in Cyrodil right now, so that might help a bit, but even then... last time I was in Cyrodill was just before this patch, playing with SO (cause battleground queue is solo and we cannot play those together). we played for about an hour or so and we were specifically looking for active fights, sieges, etc. took some resources while we were at it. Zerg (of sorts) that was sorta active at the time didn't manage to take a single castle. we did manage to defend couple of towns, but that's it. my character didn't even go up a full level.

so maybe a dedicated pvper with a dedicated group helping them farm emp or something, can get that much AP that fast. regular players, especially non pvp players? not. even. CLOSE.

Rehdaun · August 2020

JoeCapricorn wrote: »

Please require "Assault" level 2 for Rapid Maneuver again.

Not going to happen unfortunately. There are many, many threads both here and in pts asking the same thing, all ignored. The only reason given was in the 6.1.0 pts patch notes,

"Vigor: This ability is now first in the skill line to unlock, and has swapped places with Rapid Maneuvers in efforts to help builds focused on Stamina to have a healthier leveling experience. "

At least Stamina will now have a healthier leveling experience when in reality, all players will suffer having to grind for rapids. Don't forget that you can get rapid$ back without grinding if you purcha$e mount upgrade$ and/or the two per$on mount in the crown store.

Gundug · August 2020

Exhale wrote: »

for

I don’t know if I agree or disagree with this.

As someone with five accounts with full rosters, with 95% of those characters losing their speed boost, its going to be a long time for me to get them where they were, if ever.

I had already “done the work”, as some players demand, by leveling them all to beyond 10, and most beyond 50, having them all go through the Welcome to Cyrodiil routine, getting them all through crafting certification in all crafts, gaining access to all guild skill lines, it’s a bit of a kick in the teeth to lose something I had already earned. I have devoted an excessive amount of time to this game, and probably significantly more than people who say obnoxious garbage like “put in the time”.

This pattern of screwing over long time players is the way now, as seen with the idiotic Maelstrom weapon change that made all veteran drops “perfected”, except the veteran drops you had earned before the change, and the change to perfected Sunspire gear being reverted to the basic version, with the excuse that the Craglorn trials had “perfected” and “imperfect” versions of certain power levels. Except both of those versions dropped in both vet and normal trials, whereas perfected Sunspire gear only dropped from the dragons in vet.

The game is feeling like more of a money grab all the time, with less material content and more things to spend money on. I understand Elder Scrolls Online is a business first and a game second, but there may come a point where the desire to provide less for the same or higher cost could sour players to the product.

DarcyMardin · August 2020

Noisivid wrote: »

this, I've been running battleground in an attempt to grind alliance war skill line to get Rapids back. 3 hours so far and probably another hour to go. Multiply that by over ten non-pvp characters. I could just buy the skill line as it's maxed on a few actual PvP characters but no. I'm not going to do that even if they drop the cost to 500 crowns.

at this rate is will take me over 50 hours in game to grind back to where i was. I don't think that's going to happen either.

I'm seriously considering quitting the game.

So am I. I haven’t signed on today (and I sign on everyday). I don’t have the heart.

Taleof2Cities · August 2020

Gundug wrote: »

I had already “done the work”, as some players demand, by leveling them all to beyond 10, and most beyond 50, having them all go through the Welcome to Cyrodiil routine ...

Does anyone else think the 30-second Welcome to Cyrodiil quest (where you don’t PvP at all) is hardly “doing the work”?

Noisivid · August 2020

Jaraal wrote: »

Noisivid wrote: »

I did't want to go into Cyro without Rapids as that's a pain due to traveling speeds. so I was running Battlegrounds.

This. Lots of folks are joining matches and just going AFK and tabbing out to surf the web. Lose enough matches and you'll get there eventually.

i just haven't been able to bring myself to do that yet. I'd feel bad just AFKing. (it also seems like the system would boot you after a bit) There were definitely a few fights that I just wasn't into and wasn't putting out a full effort. I don't think that's fair to the people I was grouped with either but what can you do? It's on ZoS.

Jerrold · August 2020

They should make it require level 10

TineaCruris · August 2020

Agreed. This change didn't make sense at all. It totally hoses anyone trying to level an alt.....for no justifiable reason.

TineaCruris · August 2020

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Gundug wrote: »

I had already “done the work”, as some players demand, by leveling them all to beyond 10, and most beyond 50, having them all go through the Welcome to Cyrodiil routine ...

Does anyone else think the 30-second Welcome to Cyrodiil quest (where you don’t PvP at all) is hardly “doing the work”?

So you think we should get a heal that only helps stamina toons as the first reward for cyro attendance instead of something that could help every toon?

TineaCruris · August 2020

Donny_Vito wrote: »

Removed quote

vigor is only good for stamina toons. This change screws anyone trying to level an alt.

Elsonso · August 2020

TineaCruris wrote: »

Donny_Vito wrote: »

[Removed quote]

vigor is only good for stamina toons. This change screws anyone trying to level an alt.

It might be usable by everyone leveling an alt, but I bet you dollars to donuts that Vigor will be more valuable than Rapid Maneuvers for most PVE players, and that is what this change looks to be addressing.

TineaCruris · August 2020

Elsonso wrote: »

TineaCruris wrote: »

Donny_Vito wrote: »

[Removed quote]

vigor is only good for stamina toons. This change screws anyone trying to level an alt.

It might be usable by everyone leveling an alt, but I bet you dollars to donuts that Vigor will be more valuable than Rapid Maneuvers for most PVE players, and that is what this change looks to be addressing.

How many mag toons use vigor? What percentage of the player base are on mag toons?

Elsonso · August 2020

TineaCruris wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

TineaCruris wrote: »

Donny_Vito wrote: »

[Removed quote]

vigor is only good for stamina toons. This change screws anyone trying to level an alt.

It might be usable by everyone leveling an alt, but I bet you dollars to donuts that Vigor will be more valuable than Rapid Maneuvers for most PVE players, and that is what this change looks to be addressing.

How many mag toons use vigor? What percentage of the player base are on mag toons?

Outside of Cyrodiil, where Assault 5 is going to be common, I rarely see anyone using Rapid Maneuvers except for a few higher level crafting resource farmers. i would suggest that fewer people are using it for PVE, as a percentage of the total population, than the percentage of people running Stamina.