Please give us back Rapid Maneuver!

ZOS_Lunar

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Linaleah

ThePedge wrote: »

All Stamina PvP characters require Vigor.
All Stamina solo or non-healer group content requires Vigor.

So in order to unlock Vigor, you had to endure PvP without the main stamina heal, in order to unlock the stamina heal.

No one requires rapids. It's quality of life.

umm. since when? not even MOST.

SOME could find vigor useful. but all? not really.

Obsidian3

SydneyGrey wrote: »

This change will have several effects:

1) It'll ruin Battlegrounds as more people who have no clue what they're doing will join up just for the AP, and not even try to fight.
2) It'll hurt ESO's ability to recruit new players, since people will get the game, learn their horse will be painfully slow for MONTHS unless they pay more money for riding lessons ( on top of what they already paid for the game), and then they'll stop playing and go back to WoW (or whatever).
3) It'll make some current players want to quit, because there are a lot of people who like to create a lot of alts. It's no fun making a new alt now, unless you just really like wasting your time being slow.

Already shut down and un-subbed my alt account. Did BGS Sunday night because my farmer was Assault 4 1/2. It took an hour and half to get up to level 5. I was terrible and died every 30 seconds. I felt like a bad teammate, and didn't enjoy it at all. Thanks ZOS for forcing me into an hour and a half of completely miserable gameplay. I thought games were supposed to be fun????

Noisivid

nukk3r wrote: »

Sgrug wrote: »

nukk3r wrote: »

Sgrug wrote: »

RodneyRegis wrote: »

The game is absolutely stacked with grinds. Undaunted, RAT, the list is endless. Please stop saying you "earned" rapids, they were given to you for porting into cyro at Lvl 10 FFS. 100k AP is a pretty small grind in the grand scheme of things.

One could say the same about Vigor now, not a convincing argument.

Well, Barrier is still out there and it's a must-have skill for healers. Also many of us grinded for Caltrops when it was a meta skill. Both of them are twice as much AP that is needed for Rapids now.

Yes but only Rapids is so extensively used by casuals, RPr's and weekend gamers. Like it or not the player base is a factor in this and I believe it should be.

This change was taking something away, something that was inherent in the game since beta. Allowing players of all types relative easy access to a QOL movement enhancement for 6 years only to remove it and make it fairly difficult to obtain back for the population I just listed is not right nor wise imho. Also I see it as somewhat callous on ZOS's part.

Remember this was a take away, that is much different than fixing a bug or exploit. People took the effort to get it, no matter how small it may have been an effort was made and people had it for years, that is a take away.

The casuals, RPr's and weekend gamers don't care about PvE and PvP mid/end-game players. So why should we care about your QoL? Adapt like everyone else does to the ever-changing meta.

because the casuals, RPers and weekend gamers make up the majority of the player base and account for a significant portion of the income that ZoS get from the game. If they start to go away the game probably goes into decline and the monetization schemes get more aggressive. P2win isn't really a thing in ESO at the moment but it will be if the cash flow starts to dry up.

as has been posted elsewhere, there were several better ways that ZOS could have made Vigor more easily available without removing Rapids from many peoples characters. These were pointed out during the PTS and ZOS just ignored the feedback.

also, I think most of the "balance changes" to skills, sets, classes, etc have been made in response to more end-game oriented PvE and PvPers. and everyone has adapted. players can't swap out a set, adjust champ points, or change up some skills on this. they have to grind it out on every character, and some players have quite a few characters that needs to be done on.

I also think you're dead wrong that casuals RPers and weekend gamers are lacking in empathy for some of the things that end-gamers have to put up with. such as regrinding VMA weapons.

abigfishy

Well those people that claim you can do this in 30 minutes were obviously just trolling.

I have spend 4 hours tonight trying to get just two levels in PVP in Cyrodill from 3 to 5.

On the bright side there was actually no abuse which is amazing. On the other side I got eight DCs usually during big battles which meant that I missed out on a lot of keep captures.

Error 318
"You have been dropped from the server because you hit the message rate limit."

I had sent no messages. I was told it might be addons so I disabled almost all of them. Still kept on happening. Never get that in overland, WBs, Dungeons or trials.

So 4 annoying painful hours doing a CHORE that I did not enjoy to get one character their rapids back. I just can't imagine doing that another 12 times. I don't know what I am going to do but I feel very demotivated to play. This decision has made this game worse!

iKorv1n

nukk3r wrote: »

I don't have any resentment towards them, I just think they should experience every aspect of the game, rather than confine themselves to a bubble. I have 9 characters, each one of them is a crafter. I do PvE, PvP, housing, trading, fishing, you name it. And I don't demand special treatment just because I'm unable or not willing to do any content. These people want to preserve the status quo and don't want to adapt.

This is meaningless conjecture. Good for you, but there are people who dislike certain aspects of the game no matter how much they break their "bubble" or how much you think that matters. Having done the PvP grind myself multiple times over I could care less if hundreds of thousands of characters got their PvP skills for free from the start. It should always just be a choice to commit. Not to mention punishing players with 10 or more characters with a guaranteed 50 hour grind to get their abilities back is just straight up wrong.

There are far better solutions to this than making people spend several hours on every character doing meaningless busywork, AFKing in BGs or barely actually contributing to PvP to meet some arbitrary level requirement for the thing they want, because you can't make someone enjoy something they think is dumb.

DigitalHype

Jaraal wrote: »

JoeCapricorn wrote: »

The absolute LEAST they could do is lower the requirements to get Rapids. The best they could do is also make it require Assault 2, because this is a skill a LOT of people have on their bar.

But you’re missing the point. The point of the change was to make Rapids harder to get, so you will be more likely to purchase speed upgrades from the crown store. Vigor is just a diversion.

Not just speed upgrades. But, lots of people will also be purchasing the Alliance war skill lines unlocks on their alts, as a result. These are 3k crowns for ESO+ subscribers. I think maybe 5k for non +.

I've already seen people in one of my guilds commenting they have no problem spending this for all their alts now, so they don't have to grind Cyrodiil to rank 5 to get rapids. That is why this stuff happens.

AlnilamE

abigfishy wrote: »

Error 318
"You have been dropped from the server because you hit the message rate limit."

I had sent no messages. I was told it might be addons so I disabled almost all of them. Still kept on happening. Never get that in overland, WBs, Dungeons or trials.

This may mean there was a lag spike and when the game caught up it received a bunch of commands from the client in one go. It's very annoying and I'm sorry you experienced those issues.

This highlights another problem with taking new people to PvP in hopes they like it: Current server performance makes even the people who like PvP not like PvP.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

Nicole94 wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Noisivid wrote: »

this, I've been running battleground in an attempt to grind alliance war skill line to get Rapids back. 3 hours so far and probably another hour to go. Multiply that by over ten non-pvp characters. I could just buy the skill line as it's maxed on a few actual PvP characters but no. I'm not going to do that even if they drop the cost to 500 crowns.

at this rate is will take me over 50 hours in game to grind back to where i was. I don't think that's going to happen either.

I'm seriously considering quitting the game.

Ummm no way dude if you have PvP characters you know how easy it is to get rank 5 heal if you pve toons are magic just pop on a healing staff and heal zergs for 30 minutes it’s literally the super fast way to grind PvP.

Why say things that are not true? No "zerg" moves in slowmo... Without rapids you catch one or two loadscreens and you and your resto staff will arrive AFTER the point flips. I don't understand why they even allow these dumb comments like "It only takes 30 min" or "follow the zerg" It just isn't true. And I have 6 of 15 with Alliance War rank 10.
You are giving bad information and hope that who you give it to will not know better.

So how come all of my characters(18) got their skill line to 7(only passive missing as they arent useful in pve) and never unlocked rapid? It only took 3-5 hours per character
It wasnt hard

Dark_Lord_Kuro

DarcyMardin wrote: »

So I spent a couple of hours in Cyrodiil this afternoon. The character I was on, a level 50 over-1000 CP alt from my original 2014 account, already had half the level 4 assault bar filled, so I hoped I could get her quickly to level 5. But Cyrodiil was dead — hardly anything in the way of battles going on anywhere. I did a couple delves, a bunch of town quests and scouting missions. The scouting missions took *forever* on a horse with no rapids. I repaired several keep doors. Result: I still need about 30k AP to get to lvl 5.

And this was on a fully leveled character with PvP gear and a horse with full speed. My rapids had of course been taken away. I can’t even contemplate the pain of trying to level my 5 new baby alts on my new account to get back *their* rapids.

Please revert this change, ZOS. It is extremely painful for those of us loyal customers who love to play our alts and use rapids for just about everything we do.

Just go when its not dead...

SCPCSedona

How about letting us choose? Maybe if our toons already have Rapid Maneuver we can either keep that or switch it to Vigor? It's a one-time choice that only toons which already have Rapid Maneuver get to make.

Sturmfaenger

Bringing low level chars to level 10 for entering cyro for doing the starters quest and get rapid manouver - so they don't crawl around Tamriel. That seems to be a thing of the past now.
To play each little one until rank 5 in pvp is too much if one is not overly fond of pvp.

Not even the ring of the wild hunt can help here, because it only drops in cp160.
So you take something I consider essential for a small char to travel distances of any kind, place it behind a pvp barreer and are content with it? I don't need that skill that took the position rapid manouver had, never have.

I would love to swap it back in an instant.

Can you at least lower the pvp wall to rank 2 or 3 please instead of rank 5? It is extremely dissatisfying to ride from bank to crafting station to writ boards in slow motion, or do some event quests with small chars in slow motion.

There is absolutely no fun in that.

Please consider this. And correct this.

Thanks.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

wolonggong wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Outside of Cyrodiil, where Assault 5 is going to be common, I rarely see anyone using Rapid Maneuvers except for a few higher level crafting resource farmers. i would suggest that fewer people are using it for PVE, as a percentage of the total population, than the percentage of people running Stamina.

That is pure BS. Everyone that has it uses it to get to anyplace they are going FASTER.

I have it but dont ise it as its not that useful

Wandering_Immigrant

Sturmfaenger wrote: »

Bringing low level chars to level 10 for entering cyro for doing the starters quest and get rapid manouver - so they don't crawl around Tamriel. That seems to be a thing of the past now.
To play each little one until rank 5 in pvp is too much if one is not overly fond of pvp.

Not even the ring of the wild hunt can help here, because it only drops in cp160.
So you take something I consider essential for a small char to travel distances of any kind, place it behind a pvp barreer and are content with it? I don't need that skill that took the position rapid manouver had, never have.

I would love to swap it back in an instant.

Can you at least lower the pvp wall to rank 2 or 3 please instead of rank 5? It is extremely dissatisfying to ride from bank to crafting station to writ boards in slow motion, or do some event quests with small chars in slow motion.

There is absolutely no fun in that.

Please consider this. And correct this.

Thanks.

But you're talking about riding from the bank to the crafting station to the writ boards. Is that really what skill acquisition should be balanced around? Talk about first world problems, there's people dying in Stros m'Kai because they can't heal and you're worried about your mount speed while doing crafting writs.

If you really hate PvP that much just do a couple banished cells runs for Jailbreaker. You can do it naked at level 10 no one cares, same as you do the cyrodiil tutorial. You won't notice the difference. I mean really, how do you even have time to mount between those destinations, they're so close together I usually overshoot my mark just from sprinting between them.

Sgrug

Wandering_Immigrant wrote: »

Sturmfaenger wrote: »

Bringing low level chars to level 10 for entering cyro for doing the starters quest and get rapid manouver - so they don't crawl around Tamriel. That seems to be a thing of the past now.
To play each little one until rank 5 in pvp is too much if one is not overly fond of pvp.

Not even the ring of the wild hunt can help here, because it only drops in cp160.
So you take something I consider essential for a small char to travel distances of any kind, place it behind a pvp barreer and are content with it? I don't need that skill that took the position rapid manouver had, never have.

I would love to swap it back in an instant.

Can you at least lower the pvp wall to rank 2 or 3 please instead of rank 5? It is extremely dissatisfying to ride from bank to crafting station to writ boards in slow motion, or do some event quests with small chars in slow motion.

There is absolutely no fun in that.

Please consider this. And correct this.

Thanks.

But you're talking about riding from the bank to the crafting station to the writ boards. Is that really what skill acquisition should be balanced around? Talk about first world problems, there's people dying in Stros m'Kai because they can't heal and you're worried about your mount speed while doing crafting writs.

If you really hate PvP that much just do a couple banished cells runs for Jailbreaker. You can do it naked at level 10 no one cares, same as you do the cyrodiil tutorial. You won't notice the difference. I mean really, how do you even have time to mount between those destinations, they're so close together I usually overshoot my mark just from sprinting between them.

Does no one else see the irony in the bolded statement?

Rehdaun

Just a thought from a PvE player who absolutely hates this change. You get 7250 AP if you come in 3rd place in BG's. To unlock rapids you need 98000 AP. So..

98000 / 7250 = 13.52 or 14 rounded up

I believe that BG's take 15 minutes, not counting queue wait. Lets say we can get in 3 battle grounds per hour.

So all we need to do is queue up for BG's and do nothing 14 times and we get rapids. This should take approximately 4 1/2 hours. Worth a try I think I'm sure that some will be highly mad when their teammates aren't contributing but hey, it really isn't the players fault is it? There's only one group to blame isn't there?

OldManJim

Wandering_Immigrant wrote: »

there's people dying in Stros m'Kai because they can't heal

[snip] Considering Stros M'kai is a starting zone made for level 1 players with no gear & no experience, I find that very hard to believe that they require Vigor to survive.

[edited for baiting]

Nestor

Rehdaun wrote: »

Just a thought from a PvE player who absolutely hates this change. You get 7250 AP if you come in 3rd place in BG's. To unlock rapids you need 98000 AP. So..

98000 / 7250 = 13.52 or 14 rounded up

I believe that BG's take 15 minutes, not counting queue wait. Lets say we can get in 3 battle grounds per hour.

So all we need to do is queue up for BG's and do nothing 14 times and we get rapids. This should take approximately 4 1/2 hours. Worth a try I think I'm sure that some will be highly mad when their teammates aren't contributing but hey, it really isn't the players fault is it? There's only one group to blame isn't there?

Can they kick you from the group? Or, are the other 3 players stuck with you as you AFK?

SydneyGrey

Wandering_Immigrant wrote: »

Talk about first world problems, there's people dying in Stros m'Kai because they can't heal and you're worried about your mount speed while doing crafting writs.

Literally NO ONE dies in Stros M'Kai, Khenarthi's Roost or Bleakrock because they don't have Vigor.
I've played stamina characters on multiple classes, in multiple alliances, and dying was never a problem in any of those zones.

Asriel_Brightborn

I'm with JoeCapricorn on this one; I'll try to keep this as constructive as possible.

Movement around the ESO world is already painfully slow, even once you've acquired 60/60 riding points. Rapid Maneuver makes crossing the ESO game world bearable. And requiring every character to reach Assault level 5 is unrealistic. Either a similar, non-PVP skill should be introduced, or they should put Rapid Maneuver back so it's easily achievable without having to partake in PVP. Why?

I hate PVP. Hate is an incredibly strong word, and I use it sparingly. Some people love PVP. Some people are great at it (remarkable at it, actually). It seems like a well built function in the game. But, it is absolutely not for my play style: I come on ESO to relax, explore, quest, craft, engage with other players... PVP gives me a migraine (really).

My desire to continue playing ESO dropped by about 30% with this update. I like my variety of (9) characters and now given how slow they move, and how unrealistic is is to get a movement speed boost, my interest is quickly diminishing. It's hard to imagine hunting down skyshards, treasure maps, etc. while moving at a snails pace.

And while I'm on the topic, instead of messing around with game mechanics (which you're likely to get backlash on no matter what you do), how about the Product Owner starts prioritizing the oodles of bugs in the game? STILL, nobody has deleted the bloody crocodiles at the beginning of Wayrest Sewers that cause people to get "stuck in combat" and not be able to open the door following the third boss. How hard is it in the map editor to click on the crocodiles and press the DELETE key? I left ESO for about two years because of all the bugs... most are still here.

I've put a ton of time and money into ESO. I'd like to keep playing. Why not make it easy for your customers by giving them a reasonable play experience that doesn't make things overly painful?

Linaleah

Jaraal wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

The point of the change was to make Rapids harder to get, so you will be more likely to purchase speed upgrades from the crown store. Vigor is just a diversion.

Gotta love conspiracy theories

These folks are professional marketers. They would not do something they knew would alienate a large portion of the player base if they didn't think the returns were worth it. The only other alternative is that an entire team of marketing professionals were so inept that they couldn't imagine the outcry of resentment over having a useful skill players have had for years rescinded on a whim. I'm sorry, but that's not even possible. The real conspiracy theory is to say that nobody thought yanking Rapids would have any affect on the players at all.

you give marketing teams WAY too much credit. they are people with blind spots, etc. and if conspiracy theories are correct and this decision WAS primarily motivated by marketing, you are assuming that marketing team are also players themselves. THAT is not necessarily the case.

SydneyGrey wrote: »

Wandering_Immigrant wrote: »

Talk about first world problems, there's people dying in Stros m'Kai because they can't heal and you're worried about your mount speed while doing crafting writs.

Literally NO ONE dies in Stros M'Kai, Khenarthi's Roost or Bleakrock because they don't have Vigor.
I've played stamina characters on multiple classes, in multiple alliances, and dying was never a problem in any of those zones.

some people do die on those starting islands. but. 1. they are typicaly under lvl 10, so vigor won't help them anyways. 2. its because they pull too much, don't understand how to dodge or block, and again, even if they did have vigor, it wouldn't help them. I see templar newbie player dying sometimes and they START with a heal given to them. and at those early levels you get quadruple resource pools, so the difference between using stamina vs magika skills is pretty much nonexistent.

so essentially the problem is NOT in having no vigor. its in the game being pretty terrible at explaining how to play it, how combat works, etc.

Linaleah

[snip]

[snip] can you get enough ap in 30 minutes? the one where you somehow find a very efficient group chaining castles for emperor and leech castle ticks of them? because that is the ONLY way I can see this working anywhere near this fast and even then I have doubts, due to travel time between castles alone, not to mention time it takes to break through the walls, time it takes to kill all the guards and make both inside flags flip and that is assuming there is no interference from opposing factions slowing the whole flag flip down, repairing walls, destroying siege weapons, etc.

[snip]

[edited to remove quote and baiting]

johnebrown

Jaraal wrote: »

johnebrown wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

JoeCapricorn wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

JoeCapricorn wrote: »

The absolute LEAST they could do is lower the requirements to get Rapids. The best they could do is also make it require Assault 2, because this is a skill a LOT of people have on their bar.

But you’re missing the point. The point of the change was to make Rapids harder to get, so you will be more likely to purchase speed upgrades from the crown store. Vigor is just a diversion.

To Oblivion with that point. I want to say stronger words but I also want to come across as respectful and courteous.

ZOS has listened to the community in the past and I hope they will listen once more in this instance.

We have been vehemently protesting this change for weeks on the test server, as well as in the open forums. I’m not sure why you feel they will listen now when they have ignored us all along.

I don't know, maybe they are hiding & just waiting for us to go quietly into the night?
If we do, they definitely won't change it.

We had a 70 page thread about them taking away our 20 years of Bosmer stealth on a whim because somebody decided that both Bosmer and Khajiit shouldn't be stealthy at the same time, and since Elsweyr was coming soon, that Khajiit should be the focus at our expense. They got tired of hearing from us, and just locked the thread. And here we are 18 months later, and still no promised make up stealth methods.

These guys are the masters of waiting for us to go quietly into the night. Remember that uptick in communications that they promised us months ago? Yeah, me neither.

I can't disagree with you as I am relatively new to using this forum thing so I don't know all the history and I won't assume to know what they are thinking. But I do well remember them screwing up my main toon, a bosmer, to the point where I had to change the race to an Orc. Of course race changes aren't free, so... not happy about that but glad I only had one bosmer.

For now, I will play with what time I have left on my subscriptions. I switched them all to monthly, so it's not that big a loss If too many more changes ruin the game for me. At least I hope in that time I can restore my main account to full functionality. I don't really care about the other two accounts that *were* subbed. I can be happy just playing my main. Hopefully they fix this or at least don't ruin it any more for me.

finehair

[snip] You get about 10k ap for each keep capture, and another 10k for an average keep defence. If you ride with the generic lfg zerg you will be in so many action that you will get rapids in no time. If you are a magicka character, you can literally spam radiating regen with resto staff and people will thank you for it just for spamming 1 skill. If you are a stamina class, well you have your free stamina heal now so you better slot it and buckle up because the lfg zerg never stops and runs on the blood of melee players.

Don't forget to buy ballistas too, most people don't like sharing their sieges.

[edited for baiting]

Elsonso

.

OldManJim wrote: »

Wandering_Immigrant wrote: »

there's people dying in Stros m'Kai because they can't heal

[snip] Considering Stros M'kai is a starting zone made for level 1 players with no gear & no experience, I find that very hard to believe that they require Vigor to survive.

I doubt Vigor would help them, but I have seen people die to mobs there. One can assume this is due to lack of health, so obviously they aren't healing.

Rehdaun

Nestor wrote: »

Rehdaun wrote: »

Just a thought from a PvE player who absolutely hates this change. You get 7250 AP if you come in 3rd place in BG's. To unlock rapids you need 98000 AP. So..

98000 / 7250 = 13.52 or 14 rounded up

I believe that BG's take 15 minutes, not counting queue wait. Lets say we can get in 3 battle grounds per hour.

So all we need to do is queue up for BG's and do nothing 14 times and we get rapids. This should take approximately 4 1/2 hours. Worth a try I think I'm sure that some will be highly mad when their teammates aren't contributing but hey, it really isn't the players fault is it? There's only one group to blame isn't there?

Can they kick you from the group? Or, are the other 3 players stuck with you as you AFK?

I believe that here is no vote kick in BG's. I'll check later on tonight

Dark_Lord_Kuro

OldManJim wrote: »

Sgrug wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Rowjoh wrote: »

Rapids is a global skill. Vigor is a niche skill in comparison.

Vigor is a stamina based skill only, isn't even that great as its not even a burst heal and only lasts 4 secs, whereas Rapids is much more important as mobility in Cyrodiil is key and a huge quality of life thing in PVE.

The patch notes state: "Vigor: This ability is now first in the skill line to unlock, and has swapped places with Rapid Maneuvers in efforts to help builds focused on Stamina to have a healthier leveling experience".

This simply isn't true as Vigor is a non-essential skill while levelling a character/alt and there are many other alternative and better ways of getting heals or health recovery while levelling in PVP as a stam user.

This change has alienated a large number of players and I don't see Vigor users exactly whooping with unbridled joy either so the change couldn't have been made for gameplay reasons.

Rapis is a nonessensial skill period not just in leveling

Vigor is also a non essential skill period. There are alternatives, everyone can use a resto staff and they can use it at level 1 even before this change and Vigor is used by a far smaller population.

Agreed. I’ve been playing since beta and only just unlocked vigor on my main. So that’s 1 of 15 toons that has access to vigor. All 15 use rapids.

1 been playing since console release(could have been beta but ps4 wasnt part of it)
All 18 charact got the skill line at 7 but none ever unlocked rapid as its non essensial 3 got vigor as they need heal sometime

johnebrown

Rowjoh wrote: »

This change has alienated a large number of players and I don't see Vigor users exactly whooping with unbridled joy either so the change couldn't have been made for gameplay reasons.

While I hate this change, Vigor is important as an option for many Stam users. I am mostly a Stam player and I see the need. But they should not have taken rapids away from those that already had it, and rapids should still accessible early for any player. I want to have my cake & eat it too. I have a great idea! put it at level 3!!
Are they listening? Hello?

johnebrown

BalticBlues wrote: »

Many CRAFTING/STORAGE ALTS do not have COMBAT skills/sets.
ALL skill points go into CRAFTING (and 1 into RAPIDS)
Now, AFTER 6 YEARS, you take away our rapids?

ALL PLAYERS can benefit from Rapids - ONLY STAM PLAYERS can benefit from Vigor.
Because of this, probably more players will be punished than pleased by the change.
ZOS, this is a RPG. Please do not take away skills from us what we earned in the game.

Solution suggestion as a compromise:
DAILY LOGIN REWARDS of September could be 10x enough AP TO RESTORE RAPIDS.
If 10 alts could restore their rapids, most players should be fine; others also would enjoy the AP.

That works for me - great idea!
Now, will they think so too?

ThePedge

Vigor is an ESSENTIAL skill for Stamina PvP, solo PvE (like world bosses, dungeons. Not talking about overland stuff that you oneshot), and even Vet Dungeons or Arenas where you don't run Healers.

Rapids is NOT ESSENTIAL.

Sure, more people USE it. But that's doesn't make it a more necessary skill. You just lose a bit of speed while doing everything you can do normally.