Please give us back Rapid Maneuver!

BigBragg

Elsonso wrote: »

TineaCruris wrote: »

Donny_Vito wrote: »

[Removed quote]

vigor is only good for stamina toons. This change screws anyone trying to level an alt.

It might be usable by everyone leveling an alt, but I bet you dollars to donuts that Vigor will be more valuable than Rapid Maneuvers for most PVE players, and that is what this change looks to be addressing.

So from your perspective, you think adjusting a PvP skill line for PvE players was the right call?

TineaCruris

Elsonso wrote: »

TineaCruris wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

TineaCruris wrote: »

Donny_Vito wrote: »

[Removed quote]

vigor is only good for stamina toons. This change screws anyone trying to level an alt.

It might be usable by everyone leveling an alt, but I bet you dollars to donuts that Vigor will be more valuable than Rapid Maneuvers for most PVE players, and that is what this change looks to be addressing.

How many mag toons use vigor? What percentage of the player base are on mag toons?

Outside of Cyrodiil, where Assault 5 is going to be common, I rarely see anyone using Rapid Maneuvers except for a few higher level crafting resource farmers. i would suggest that fewer people are using it for PVE, as a percentage of the total population, than the percentage of people running Stamina.

I guess I'll ask again.

How many mag toons use vigor? What percentage of the player base are running mag toons at any given time? (50%, give or take prolly)

...backflips to justify bad choices....

How do you get to assault 5 outside of cyro? Anyone leveling an alt wants rapids, and everyone wants it while mounted. Rapids is primarily for when mounted to get from point A to point B "rapidly".

This seems like a change to encourage crown store purchasesof mount upgrades because a slow mount is so excruciatingly painful to try to do anything with.

Gundug

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Gundug wrote: »

I had already “done the work”, as some players demand, by leveling them all to beyond 10, and most beyond 50, having them all go through the Welcome to Cyrodiil routine ...

Does anyone else think the 30-second Welcome to Cyrodiil quest (where you don’t PvP at all) is hardly “doing the work”?

Do it with 60 plus characters and come back and tell me how little hassle it is to get to that point just for one skill. Now get all those characters up to assault 5 so they can be in the same place they were a week ago.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

Rapid is useless anyway...never unlocked it across 18 characters and never plan to

Also i leveluped assault to 7 on all my character si if i need rank 7 skill for any character sometime for any reason i wont have to go and do pvp if im not feeling too

Also its like 97k ap wich can easily be done in an evening even with low rank mount you just need to know were the zerg is going and not waist at the transit wayshrine for the battle to start

Elsonso

BigBragg wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

TineaCruris wrote: »

Donny_Vito wrote: »

Another post about the same exact thing!

So, obviously, I must repeat the same exact thing: you'll be okay.

I get a good laugh at people that want to quit because they're now going a little bit slower on a horse from Point A to Point B, yet they don't appreciate all the other PvE'ers who are enjoying the ability to stay alive with Vigor now that it's easily accessible.

vigor is only good for stamina toons. This change screws anyone trying to level an alt.

It might be usable by everyone leveling an alt, but I bet you dollars to donuts that Vigor will be more valuable than Rapid Maneuvers for most PVE players, and that is what this change looks to be addressing.

So from your perspective, you think adjusting a PvP skill line for PvE players was the right call?

No. It was an easy answer to a problem that should not have existed. Given that it did exist, what ZOS needed to do was find a way to add the desired functionality of Vigor to one or more existing (or new) skills commonly available to stamina characters. It would have been more work, and more disruption, but my feel is that would have been the better approach.

Honestly, I think ZOS did this to show they were "listening". Easy. Quick. Done.

Katahdin

TineaCruris wrote: »

Donny_Vito wrote: »

[Removed quote]

vigor is only good for stamina toons. This change screws anyone trying to level a magicka alt.

Fixed that for you. Stam characters need vigor.

Gundug

ZOS made this change for crown store reasons, not to give stamina players a “much needed heal”. If the heal was so desperately needed, the developers could have made all of the various class and weapon skill heals more accessible, and could have considered making some morphs stamina friendly.

Elsonso

Gundug wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Gundug wrote: »

I had already “done the work”, as some players demand, by leveling them all to beyond 10, and most beyond 50, having them all go through the Welcome to Cyrodiil routine ...

Does anyone else think the 30-second Welcome to Cyrodiil quest (where you don’t PvP at all) is hardly “doing the work”?

Do it with 60 plus characters and come back and tell me how little hassle it is to get to that point just for one skill. Now get all those characters up to assault 5 so they can be in the same place they were a week ago.

I think you are well outside of the bell curve on this. 60 plus characters? Active characters, from the sound of it. That is pretty rarefied air.

Gundug

Elsonso wrote: »

I think you are well outside of the bell curve on this. 60 plus characters? Active characters, from the sound of it. That is pretty rarefied air.

That’s likely very much true, and frankly, I am a stupid person for putting as much time and effort into this game as I have. My point in all this is that the thinking behind the developer decisions lately has become progressively more suspect to me, while their desire to mine as much income as possible from players has become more apparent.

I just want a fun game, and I don’t want to feel like every patch is a step backward in many ways. Players don’t have to be screwed over to make changes or improvements.

Linaleah

Katahdin wrote: »

TineaCruris wrote: »

Donny_Vito wrote: »

[Removed quote]

vigor is only good for stamina toons. This change screws anyone trying to level a magicka alt.

Fixed that for you. Stam characters need vigor.

SOME stamina characters need vigor. other stamina characters have acess to class heals. this change hurts anyone trying to level an alt - stamina OR magika.

Katahdin

Linaleah wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

TineaCruris wrote: »

Donny_Vito wrote: »

[Removed quote]

vigor is only good for stamina toons. This change screws anyone trying to level a magicka alt.

Fixed that for you. Stam characters need vigor.

SOME stamina characters need vigor. other stamina characters have acess to class heals. this change hurts anyone trying to level an alt - stamina OR magika.

It doesn't hurt anyone. It just slows you down some. You can still level any character without rapids. My first character was leveled without rapids. Still got leveled, despite not having rapids. Still farmed mats too without rapids.

JoeCapricorn

The absolute LEAST they could do is lower the requirements to get Rapids. The best they could do is also make it require Assault 2, because this is a skill a LOT of people have on their bar.

But after six years, it is too jarring of a change to ignore. It isn't "easy" to grind to Assault 5, especially on a character that does not have any skillpoints to spend in weapon and armor skills. Rapids is just so they can quickly get around a city, although looks like I'll be moving my mules to Vivec anyway (they are currently in Alinor)

I don't care if you were able to level a character without Rapids. Of course I can level a character without Rapids, but it is a QOL skill. I want that skill back!

Alegna

Noisivid wrote: »

this, I've been running battleground in an attempt to grind alliance war skill line to get Rapids back. 3 hours so far and probably another hour to go. Multiply that by over ten non-pvp characters. I could just buy the skill line as it's maxed on a few actual PvP characters but no. I'm not going to do that even if they drop the cost to 500 crowns.

at this rate is will take me over 50 hours in game to grind back to where i was. I don't think that's going to happen either.

I'm seriously considering quitting the game.

Same. I'm not a pvp player, so none of my characters are master level to even buy the skill line. It has been so painful getting anywhere. I have 9 active chars and am always on 2 each day. I've run all maps on main so I don't need to see all of it again so I want to fly by the areas. I don't know how much longer I'll play game. I am so annoyed & discouraged to even play. To take away such a huge skill for everyone for no good reason?? Why am I going to pay another year sub or spend anymore money on crowns. I'm just not.

MrGhosty

Noisivid wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Noisivid wrote: »

I did't want to go into Cyro without Rapids as that's a pain due to traveling speeds. so I was running Battlegrounds.

This. Lots of folks are joining matches and just going AFK and tabbing out to surf the web. Lose enough matches and you'll get there eventually.

i just haven't been able to bring myself to do that yet. I'd feel bad just AFKing. (it also seems like the system would boot you after a bit) There were definitely a few fights that I just wasn't into and wasn't putting out a full effort. I don't think that's fair to the people I was grouped with either but what can you do? It's on ZoS.

It's not on Zos if you willfully ruin other players' experiences. If you feel you have to do that in order to level for a qol skill that's fair enough but be honest with yourself and call it what it is. I don't really care for the switch either, though I have a character I'm currently leveling that is going to benefit from the swap and the only time I ever put rapids on my bar is when I'm in cyro solo or I'm doing the dragon/harrowstorm grind (less so now that no one really does dragons anymore, plenty of time to reach them now)

You can level up alliance war lines fast in Cyro, just ask in zone for LFG and join a group. There is always someone who slots rapids for the group so you won't be left behind. Additionally as long as you're in the nearby region you get kill xp from your group, and it also counts kills towards the repeatable quests. No it isn't as fast as doing a two minute quest, and for the people who rely on that speed buff on many toons I feel your pain. Just don't ruin other people's gameplay because you feel zos has wronged you. Those random people have no control over whether or not skills get switched, and you risk forcing zos to put in countermeasures if the problem becomes endemic. They are more likely to put anti afk measures in place than revert skill lines.

Alegna

Elsonso wrote: »

TineaCruris wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

TineaCruris wrote: »

Donny_Vito wrote: »

[Removed quote]

vigor is only good for stamina toons. This change screws anyone trying to level an alt.

It might be usable by everyone leveling an alt, but I bet you dollars to donuts that Vigor will be more valuable than Rapid Maneuvers for most PVE players, and that is what this change looks to be addressing.

How many mag toons use vigor? What percentage of the player base are on mag toons?

Outside of Cyrodiil, where Assault 5 is going to be common, I rarely see anyone using Rapid Maneuvers except for a few higher level crafting resource farmers. i would suggest that fewer people are using it for PVE, as a percentage of the total population, than the percentage of people running Stamina.

Are you just running around in circle in Vvardenfell? I constantly see ppl using rapid, especially is WB runs, dragon runs, Harrowstorm runs, basic story runs...Seriously how can you even make such a statement when it's rare to see someone NOT using rapid. A huge majority of players uses Rapid over caring about a Stamina buff. There is absolutely no reason for them to have made this change. Keep Rapid at 3 and move Vigor to 4.

Nicole94

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Noisivid wrote: »

this, I've been running battleground in an attempt to grind alliance war skill line to get Rapids back. 3 hours so far and probably another hour to go. Multiply that by over ten non-pvp characters. I could just buy the skill line as it's maxed on a few actual PvP characters but no. I'm not going to do that even if they drop the cost to 500 crowns.

at this rate is will take me over 50 hours in game to grind back to where i was. I don't think that's going to happen either.

I'm seriously considering quitting the game.

Ummm no way dude if you have PvP characters you know how easy it is to get rank 5 heal if you pve toons are magic just pop on a healing staff and heal zergs for 30 minutes it’s literally the super fast way to grind PvP.

Why say things that are not true? No "zerg" moves in slowmo... Without rapids you catch one or two loadscreens and you and your resto staff will arrive AFTER the point flips. I don't understand why they even allow these dumb comments like "It only takes 30 min" or "follow the zerg" It just isn't true. And I have 6 of 15 with Alliance War rank 10.
You are giving bad information and hope that who you give it to will not know better.

WARchief10K

At first I was like whatever, then I logged in an alt and saw it was Assault lvl 5 i was like wtf. I thought it was gonna go from like 1 to 2-3

5?!??

the f

JoeCapricorn

Rapid was originally at Assault 2, so it should be changed BACK to Assault 2, so that everyone who had it on their bars can have it back without any additional effort. Like it should be, like it was for the past SIX YEARS

If they wanted to make Vigor more accessible, why not put that requirement to Assault 3?

WARchief10K

JoeCapricorn wrote: »

Rapid was originally at Assault 2, so it should be changed BACK to Assault 2, so that everyone who had it on their bars can have it back without any additional effort. Like it should be, like it was for the past SIX YEARS

If they wanted to make Vigor more accessible, why not put that requirement to Assault 3?

Exactly, like why is every change in this game almost seemingly half baked? It's just like:

welp lets remove group bg queue,

welp lets add 3 seconds delay to skills to help lag

welp let's just swap vigor and rapids.

JoeCapricorn

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Is there going to be any official response to this? This change really depresses me and if it isn't reversed, I'm going to have to join the choir of those cancelling their subscriptions. It will be a while before I can do so, my sub is good until December or January, so you have until then to fix this mistake.

Smohk

No rush to get them cool looking mounts then since pve alts will now be faster on foot.

JoeCapricorn

I think I said this before but I would rather grind for 11 Rings of the Wild Hunt than reach Assault rank 5 on every alt

Uudrost

Dear ESO Management & anyone with a suggestion,

I've played ESO for 5 years and have been a very good customer.
I guess it's time to sell the game or let my subscription lapse.
I'm simply too upset over losing "Rapid Maneuver" in the recent August 2020 update.
I had 18 characters all with "Rapid Maneuver" and only one retains this ability.

I'm an ANCIENT GAMER who played PONG in 1970.
I simply don't have the reflexes and "situational awareness" to be a member of any group other than in non-Vet dungeons.
I'm a crafter into PVE but I really do have a need for Rapid Maneuver.
Doing "a grind" is not a problem but I'm simply TERRIBLE at PVP.

Why are there no options for players as myself?

I have 1424 CPs.
Why not allow the "cash in" of excess CP"s to obtain "Rapid Maneuver"?
It's not like "paying to win" given how long the grind has been.
I thought killing dungeon bosses in Cyrodiil would advance my Alliance skill line, but it's not the case.


Thanks for any help/suggestions.

Uudrost

daryl.rasmusenb14_ESO

Uudrost wrote: »

Dear ESO Management & anyone with a suggestion,

I've played ESO for 5 years and have been a very good customer.
I guess it's time to sell the game or let my subscription lapse.
I'm simply too upset over losing "Rapid Maneuver" in the recent August 2020 update.
I had 18 characters all with "Rapid Maneuver" and only one retains this ability.

I'm an ANCIENT GAMER who played PONG in 1970.
I simply don't have the reflexes and "situational awareness" to be a member of any group other than in non-Vet dungeons.
I'm a crafter into PVE but I really do have a need for Rapid Maneuver.
Doing "a grind" is not a problem but I'm simply TERRIBLE at PVP.

Why are there no options for players as myself?

I have 1424 CPs.
Why not allow the "cash in" of excess CP"s to obtain "Rapid Maneuver"?
It's not like "paying to win" given how long the grind has been.
I thought killing dungeon bosses in Cyrodiil would advance my Alliance skill line, but it's not the case.


Thanks for any help/suggestions.

Uudrost

^^^^ this! I am done also. Been a sub'er since beta. Not anymore. Have fun.

JoeCapricorn

This is really something that should have been asked of the community at large, like they did with light attack changes. They would have seen how much of a bad idea it was.

JoeCapricorn

I feel like they snuck this in without realizing how vast its effects were going to be. They have to reverse this change!

SydneyGrey

Good luck doing those Psijic quests without Rapids, people.

Elsonso

JoeCapricorn wrote: »

I feel like they snuck this in without realizing how vast its effects were going to be. They have to reverse this change!

I think that the problem is that there is no one at the studio with the job to say "NO", or that person is ineffective. This is the second of three really "interesting" decisions this year, and they probably are not done. It is becoming painfully obvious that they really need someone there to just say "NO".


Alegna... because I spend a lot of time in overland and Rapid Maneuvers stands out. It used to be used a lot more than it is today, to annoying effect, but that changed.

etchedpixels

Uudrost wrote: »

Dear ESO Management & anyone with a suggestion,

I've played ESO for 5 years and have been a very good customer.
I guess it's time to sell the game or let my subscription lapse.
I'm simply too upset over losing "Rapid Maneuver" in the recent August 2020 update.
I had 18 characters all with "Rapid Maneuver" and only one retains this ability.

I'm an ANCIENT GAMER who played PONG in 1970.
I simply don't have the reflexes and "situational awareness" to be a member of any group other than in non-Vet dungeons.
I'm a crafter into PVE but I really do have a need for Rapid Maneuver.
Doing "a grind" is not a problem but I'm simply TERRIBLE at PVP.

Why are there no options for players as myself?

I have 1424 CPs.
Why not allow the "cash in" of excess CP"s to obtain "Rapid Maneuver"?
It's not like "paying to win" given how long the grind has been.
I thought killing dungeon bosses in Cyrodiil would advance my Alliance skill line, but it's not the case.


Thanks for any help/suggestions.

Uudrost

You can go into battlegrounds, score 0, have your team come last, make a total fool of yourself and you still get the bump on each battle ground you do. I've done that to level up one toon (just queueing while I craft) and we even won one because there were more totally clueless people on the other sides 8)

So there is a grind for it, it's just a silly one.

Jaraal

JoeCapricorn wrote: »

The absolute LEAST they could do is lower the requirements to get Rapids. The best they could do is also make it require Assault 2, because this is a skill a LOT of people have on their bar.

But you’re missing the point. The point of the change was to make Rapids harder to get, so you will be more likely to purchase speed upgrades from the crown store. Vigor is just a diversion.