Please give us back Rapid Maneuver!

frozzzen101

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

The point of the change was to make Rapids harder to get, so you will be more likely to purchase speed upgrades from the crown store. Vigor is just a diversion.

Gotta love conspiracy theories

You'd have to be quite dense to think it conspiracy theory. It's pretty self apparent. Rapids was first thing to unlock in AvA skill line because Cyrodil is massive and you need means of transportation in that place. Suddenly after 5 years Cyro suddenly grew smaller? No. It's just suits decided to monetize this part of the game - both AvA skill line and horse speed scrolls. And given how much crying over Rapids there is on forums I think their bet was spot on. I'm pretty sure if we calculate all casts of all skills in game rapids would probably be #1 or at least on the very top.

Honestly I have no horse in this race. All my characters have kept Rapids because I farmed either for old Caltrops, Barrier or Proxy det or for fun, but it's really disingenuous move by ZoS. I strongly considered buying 30-40 speed scrolls for my new necro but as it is I won't because my purchase would be seen as reaction to them trying to monetize this system.

And legit, getting rapids even as pve player is not hard. It does take one evening of BG spam, like 98k AP total. It's not easiest thing to do like it was and it does require some hours sunk into it but you can do it even if you half ass it. And ZoS doesn't care much about you or your alts. If you won't buy AvA rank or horse speed you probably aren't type of player they are interested in keeping since you aren't spender. So you can either quit, buy their stuff, or show them middle finger and grind it. I'd go with third option

Deter1UK

Uudrost wrote: »

I'm an ANCIENT GAMER who played PONG in 1970.
I simply don't have the reflexes and "situational awareness" to be a member of any group other than in non-Vet dungeons.
I'm a crafter into PVE but I really do have a need for Rapid Maneuver.
Doing "a grind" is not a problem but I'm simply TERRIBLE at PVP.

Why are there no options for players as myself?

Me too.
I feel your pain!

finehair

Just because you have over 550 accounts and 5500 characters doesn't entitle you to say "oh no now I have to grind it on all characters"
That is your choice to have that many characters, and vigor is actually an essential skill for stam characters whereas rapids is not.

Also farming about 100k ap in Cyrodiil is literally takes 1 hour at max, if you are a magicka character that makes your job even easier because of healing. Just go to a keep that is called under attack in zonechat before it gets tagged, if it is a core keep most of your faction will defend it too and you get about 8-10k defence ticks from such sieges. In addition to your heals, your kills from oils etc.

If you want a faster ap gain, have about 4-5 oils in your bag ready and scout an outpost or keep that is likely to be attacked. As soon as they put ram start pouring oils from 4 different oils. If it is not a ball group you will get at least 3-4 kills. And that gives you about 5k ap for killing players, also 20k ap for defending keep alone in outnumbered situaton, even though your kills are from oils.

100k ap is really easy if you want to get it fast and get out of Cyrodiil.
You would get it by the time most of you and me included finishing these long paragraphs.

So see you in the oiling spot, I place additional oils for other people to use as well.

Rowjoh

no, Vigor is not essential by a long shot.

Sgrug

finehair wrote: »

Just because you have over 550 accounts and 5500 characters doesn't entitle you to say "oh no now I have to grind it on all characters"
That is your choice to have that many characters, and vigor is actually an essential skill for stam characters whereas rapids is not.

Also farming about 100k ap in Cyrodiil is literally takes 1 hour at max, if you are a magicka character that makes your job even easier because of healing. Just go to a keep that is called under attack in zonechat before it gets tagged, if it is a core keep most of your faction will defend it too and you get about 8-10k defence ticks from such sieges. In addition to your heals, your kills from oils etc.

If you want a faster ap gain, have about 4-5 oils in your bag ready and scout an outpost or keep that is likely to be attacked. As soon as they put ram start pouring oils from 4 different oils. If it is not a ball group you will get at least 3-4 kills. And that gives you about 5k ap for killing players, also 20k ap for defending keep alone in outnumbered situaton, even though your kills are from oils.

100k ap is really easy if you want to get it fast and get out of Cyrodiil.
You would get it by the time most of you and me included finishing these long paragraphs.

So see you in the oiling spot, I place additional oils for other people to use as well.

That is alot of ifs, if I win the lottery I would be rich but guess what "ifs" are not a solution.

The practical and actual results of a new player PVPing to get rapids will be about 5 to 7 hours of game play in which they will spend a lot of time chasing fights only to not make it because they are so slow OR they will end up camping forts hoping it gets attacked.

I know because that is exactly what it took me and I use to PVP quite a bit in 2015 and 2016. One just doesn't pop into a continuous string of AP rich fights just by logging into the server you know and for a newbie they won't even know where to look for AP/hr rich environments.

It would be nice for posters debating the merits of this to at least be realistic about such things as opposed to describing perfect and highly experienced PVPr optimums.

Wandering_Immigrant

JoeCapricorn wrote: »

That would require doing that kind of a grind on 11 additional characters. It isn't as easy as doing just the tutorial quests either, Assault rank 5 requires 98,000 AP. That takes hours.

I don't have the time, motivation and energy to do that kind of grind on 11 characters.

I play ESO as an escape from reality, to destress, and Rapid Maneuver is a long-standing part of my gameplay. It's how I move around whenever I am on a mount. I have it on every bar on every character.

I have done the tutorial quests and it got me to Assault Level: 2. Whoop dee doo. If they required Assault level 3 for Rapids, maybe it wouldn't be so bad. But it is Assault level 5.

I don't have the time or mental energy to grind that out on all of my other alts. I am not going to. So I hope they change it back or find a compromise that makes everyone happy.

Many of my characters aren't built for PVP, they are mules and have no skillpoints allocated to weapons or armor. Just crafting. There is no way they would be able to get Assault to 5. But Rapid Maneuver forms a basic method of mobility. It allows me to get to a bank NPC (and when applicable) an Outlaw Hideout just to unload stuff or sell stuff on a guild trader.

It allows new characters to move around without feeling like their mounts are made of molasses. It will be 55 days before my lowbie gets 60 in speed.

Even then, 60 speed feels too slow. I like Rapids just to go faster. I just like going faster. You know what I would rather do? Grind for 11 other Rings of the Wild Hunt

[Edited for removed content] [Further edited to fix some grammar issues caused by previous edit]

Call me crazy but I just don't think crafting mules with no skill points allocated to weapons or armor should be prioritized for any balancing decisions whatsoever. That's a choice you made. I have a dedicated crafter, she's always been able to handle herself in a fight well enough to at least go delve diving for skyshards, even went out and got herself vigor at rank 5 because, well, I wanted her to.

Any character with even the most moderate skill set can get to rank 5 easy.

Magicka, any class, slap on a healing staff, go to Cyrodiil, type; /z healer lfg, wait 2 seconds, accept invite, follow group and spam heals. Don't worry about impen gear or anything like that, just position yourself so that your group is in between you and the opposing group. If you die someone will revive you. 1 hour tops.

Stamina, any class, slap together two generic crafted sets with an easy to get monster set you probably have lying around. Hundings, Brass, Slimecraw. All medium, impen on the crafted armor, sharpened weapons, doesn't matter trait or weight on the monster, and boom instant BG build. Generic AF. Bonus points for using New Moon over Hundings. Double bonus points for crafting it at cp150 to save mats. I usually get about 80k AP give or take from doing the complete 5 BGs daily, so let's say 8 matches tops, 10 if you're not trying. Pass this build between all your stam characters until they're all rank 5 and you're done.

RodneyRegis

The game is absolutely stacked with grinds. Undaunted, RAT, the list is endless. Please stop saying you "earned" rapids, they were given to you for porting into cyro at Lvl 10 FFS. 100k AP is a pretty small grind in the grand scheme of things.

Sgrug

RodneyRegis wrote: »

The game is absolutely stacked with grinds. Undaunted, RAT, the list is endless. Please stop saying you "earned" rapids, they were given to you for porting into cyro at Lvl 10 FFS. 100k AP is a pretty small grind in the grand scheme of things.

One could say the same about Vigor now, not a convincing argument.

DarcyMardin

I’m self censoring, too, especially after my husband got in trouble for a comment one of these threads that he probably made on my behalf since he knows how upset I am after this change. I wouldn’t have minded the change so much if they had not *taken rapids away* from those of us who have used it daily on dozens of alts for, in many cases, literally years.

Not to mention that I spent several hours in Cyrodiil yesterday trying to level from rank 4 assault to rank 5 and still have a big chunk of AP left to go. And that is on only ONE alt. People who are blithely claiming it takes half an hour or, at most, a couple of hours, are simply wrong, especially for those of us with slow mounts and little PvP know-how.

Sorry but this may well be the worst change ever...and that’s saying a lot.

EvilAutoTech

It's only 196k scouting missions. Easy-peasy.

nukk3r

Sgrug wrote: »

RodneyRegis wrote: »

The game is absolutely stacked with grinds. Undaunted, RAT, the list is endless. Please stop saying you "earned" rapids, they were given to you for porting into cyro at Lvl 10 FFS. 100k AP is a pretty small grind in the grand scheme of things.

One could say the same about Vigor now, not a convincing argument.

Well, Barrier is still out there and it's a must-have skill for healers. Also many of us grinded for Caltrops when it was a meta skill. Both of them are twice as much AP that is needed for Rapids now.

Sgrug

nukk3r wrote: »

Sgrug wrote: »

RodneyRegis wrote: »

The game is absolutely stacked with grinds. Undaunted, RAT, the list is endless. Please stop saying you "earned" rapids, they were given to you for porting into cyro at Lvl 10 FFS. 100k AP is a pretty small grind in the grand scheme of things.

One could say the same about Vigor now, not a convincing argument.

Well, Barrier is still out there and it's a must-have skill for healers. Also many of us grinded for Caltrops when it was a meta skill. Both of them are twice as much AP that is needed for Rapids now.

Yes but only Rapids is so extensively used by casuals, RPr's and weekend gamers. Like it or not the player base is a factor in this and I believe it should be.

This change was taking something away, something that was inherent in the game since beta. Allowing players of all types relative easy access to a QOL movement enhancement for 6 years only to remove it and make it fairly difficult to obtain back for the population I just listed is not right nor wise imho. Also I see it as somewhat callous on ZOS's part.

Remember this was a take away, that is much different than fixing a bug or exploit. People took the effort to get it, no matter how small it may have been an effort was made and people had it for years, that is a take away.

nukk3r

Sgrug wrote: »

nukk3r wrote: »

Sgrug wrote: »

RodneyRegis wrote: »

The game is absolutely stacked with grinds. Undaunted, RAT, the list is endless. Please stop saying you "earned" rapids, they were given to you for porting into cyro at Lvl 10 FFS. 100k AP is a pretty small grind in the grand scheme of things.

One could say the same about Vigor now, not a convincing argument.

Well, Barrier is still out there and it's a must-have skill for healers. Also many of us grinded for Caltrops when it was a meta skill. Both of them are twice as much AP that is needed for Rapids now.

Yes but only Rapids is so extensively used by casuals, RPr's and weekend gamers. Like it or not the player base is a factor in this and I believe it should be.

This change was taking something away, something that was inherent in the game since beta. Allowing players of all types relative easy access to a QOL movement enhancement for 6 years only to remove it and make it fairly difficult to obtain back for the population I just listed is not right nor wise imho. Also I see it as somewhat callous on ZOS's part.

Remember this was a take away, that is much different than fixing a bug or exploit. People took the effort to get it, no matter how small it may have been an effort was made and people had it for years, that is a take away.

The casuals, RPr's and weekend gamers don't care about PvE and PvP mid/end-game players. So why should we care about your QoL? Adapt like everyone else does to the ever-changing meta.

zaria

Wandering_Immigrant wrote: »

JoeCapricorn wrote: »

That would require doing that kind of a grind on 11 additional characters. It isn't as easy as doing just the tutorial quests either, Assault rank 5 requires 98,000 AP. That takes hours.

I don't have the time, motivation and energy to do that kind of grind on 11 characters.

I play ESO as an escape from reality, to destress, and Rapid Maneuver is a long-standing part of my gameplay. It's how I move around whenever I am on a mount. I have it on every bar on every character.

I have done the tutorial quests and it got me to Assault Level: 2. Whoop dee doo. If they required Assault level 3 for Rapids, maybe it wouldn't be so bad. But it is Assault level 5.

I don't have the time or mental energy to grind that out on all of my other alts. I am not going to. So I hope they change it back or find a compromise that makes everyone happy.

Many of my characters aren't built for PVP, they are mules and have no skillpoints allocated to weapons or armor. Just crafting. There is no way they would be able to get Assault to 5. But Rapid Maneuver forms a basic method of mobility. It allows me to get to a bank NPC (and when applicable) an Outlaw Hideout just to unload stuff or sell stuff on a guild trader.

It allows new characters to move around without feeling like their mounts are made of molasses. It will be 55 days before my lowbie gets 60 in speed.

Even then, 60 speed feels too slow. I like Rapids just to go faster. I just like going faster. You know what I would rather do? Grind for 11 other Rings of the Wild Hunt

[Edited for removed content] [Further edited to fix some grammar issues caused by previous edit]

Call me crazy but I just don't think crafting mules with no skill points allocated to weapons or armor should be prioritized for any balancing decisions whatsoever. That's a choice you made. I have a dedicated crafter, she's always been able to handle herself in a fight well enough to at least go delve diving for skyshards, even went out and got herself vigor at rank 5 because, well, I wanted her to.

Any character with even the most moderate skill set can get to rank 5 easy.

Magicka, any class, slap on a healing staff, go to Cyrodiil, type; /z healer lfg, wait 2 seconds, accept invite, follow group and spam heals. Don't worry about impen gear or anything like that, just position yourself so that your group is in between you and the opposing group. If you die someone will revive you. 1 hour tops.

Stamina, any class, slap together two generic crafted sets with an easy to get monster set you probably have lying around. Hundings, Brass, Slimecraw. All medium, impen on the crafted armor, sharpened weapons, doesn't matter trait or weight on the monster, and boom instant BG build. Generic AF. Bonus points for using New Moon over Hundings. Double bonus points for crafting it at cp150 to save mats. I usually get about 80k AP give or take from doing the complete 5 BGs daily, so let's say 8 matches tops, 10 if you're not trying. Pass this build between all your stam characters until they're all rank 5 and you're done.

I agree, however doing this with pugs and it tend to take an good evening with an random pug group not 1 hour.
Did that with my lasted alt, baby PvP on an slow horse as level 12, simply converted her to magic build some magic sets, resto staff and an level 14 destro. Got to assault 7 but it was during double AP.

Note that its an double AP testing event coming up soon.

Now why should an pure crafting alt need rapid. I only do surveys on my main who has all the wayshrines unlocked.
And its nice then they stacks.

Sgrug

nukk3r wrote: »

Sgrug wrote: »

nukk3r wrote: »

Sgrug wrote: »

RodneyRegis wrote: »

The game is absolutely stacked with grinds. Undaunted, RAT, the list is endless. Please stop saying you "earned" rapids, they were given to you for porting into cyro at Lvl 10 FFS. 100k AP is a pretty small grind in the grand scheme of things.

One could say the same about Vigor now, not a convincing argument.

Well, Barrier is still out there and it's a must-have skill for healers. Also many of us grinded for Caltrops when it was a meta skill. Both of them are twice as much AP that is needed for Rapids now.

Yes but only Rapids is so extensively used by casuals, RPr's and weekend gamers. Like it or not the player base is a factor in this and I believe it should be.

This change was taking something away, something that was inherent in the game since beta. Allowing players of all types relative easy access to a QOL movement enhancement for 6 years only to remove it and make it fairly difficult to obtain back for the population I just listed is not right nor wise imho. Also I see it as somewhat callous on ZOS's part.

Remember this was a take away, that is much different than fixing a bug or exploit. People took the effort to get it, no matter how small it may have been an effort was made and people had it for years, that is a take away.

The casuals, RPr's and weekend gamers don't care about PvE and PvP mid/end-game players. So why should we care about your QoL? Adapt like everyone else does to the ever-changing meta.

This was not a meta change and the attitude of "they don't care about me why care about them" has basically made any other post you may write on this subject moot, your motive has been exposed and it is heavily biased in animosity.

As for my QoL and casual, I have over 8000 hours in this game and countless achievements, I do not rank as a casual in the least but I can still appreciate fairness AND I do believe taking away a skill is just wrong.

mareeelb16_ESO

nukk3r wrote: »

The casuals, RPr's and weekend gamers don't care about PvE and PvP mid/end-game players. So why should we care about your QoL? Adapt like everyone else does to the ever-changing meta.

That statement is so divisive - and yet it's also so very illuminating. If I'm interpreting it correctly your dogged support for the change to rapids is born out of your resentment towards 'casuals, RPr's and weekend gamers'.

This doesn't have to be a war - there are oft cited solutions that could've suited both sides of the debate.

Nestor

johnebrown wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

TineaCruris wrote: »

Donny_Vito wrote: »

[Removed quote]

vigor is only good for stamina toons. This change screws anyone trying to level an alt.

It might be usable by everyone leveling an alt, but I bet you dollars to donuts that Vigor will be more valuable than Rapid Maneuvers for most PVE players, and that is what this change looks to be addressing.

mmm... The majority of stam players, but a minority of mag players. By sheer numbers using it, no. But I'm not sure how to compare the % of players using it to those that really need it. In essence you are probably correct, though I still think there was a better way of doing it.

On my two, of 18, Stamina Characters, they do not use Vigor.

All of my characters use Rapids. Or, well, all of them did use Rapids.

nukk3r

Sgrug wrote: »

nukk3r wrote: »

Sgrug wrote: »

nukk3r wrote: »

Sgrug wrote: »

RodneyRegis wrote: »

The game is absolutely stacked with grinds. Undaunted, RAT, the list is endless. Please stop saying you "earned" rapids, they were given to you for porting into cyro at Lvl 10 FFS. 100k AP is a pretty small grind in the grand scheme of things.

One could say the same about Vigor now, not a convincing argument.

Well, Barrier is still out there and it's a must-have skill for healers. Also many of us grinded for Caltrops when it was a meta skill. Both of them are twice as much AP that is needed for Rapids now.

Yes but only Rapids is so extensively used by casuals, RPr's and weekend gamers. Like it or not the player base is a factor in this and I believe it should be.

This change was taking something away, something that was inherent in the game since beta. Allowing players of all types relative easy access to a QOL movement enhancement for 6 years only to remove it and make it fairly difficult to obtain back for the population I just listed is not right nor wise imho. Also I see it as somewhat callous on ZOS's part.

Remember this was a take away, that is much different than fixing a bug or exploit. People took the effort to get it, no matter how small it may have been an effort was made and people had it for years, that is a take away.

The casuals, RPr's and weekend gamers don't care about PvE and PvP mid/end-game players. So why should we care about your QoL? Adapt like everyone else does to the ever-changing meta.

This was not a meta change and the attitude of "they don't care about me why care about them" has basically made any other post you may write on this subject moot, your motive has been exposed and it is heavily biased in animosity.

As for my QoL and casual, I have over 8000 hours in this game and countless achievements, I do not rank as a casual in the least but I can still appreciate fairness AND I do believe taking away a skill is just wrong.

All I say is that these people need to stop whining and threatening ZOS with cancelling subs or quitting the game, and get out of their comfort zone and actually play the game. I've said it for almost a week now in all these pointless threads. ZOS are in their right to change the game, you have no say in it. You can either play or quit.

mareeelb16_ESO wrote: »

nukk3r wrote: »

The casuals, RPr's and weekend gamers don't care about PvE and PvP mid/end-game players. So why should we care about your QoL? Adapt like everyone else does to the ever-changing meta.

That statement is so divisive - and yet it's also so very illuminating. If I'm interpreting it correctly your dogged support for the change to rapids is born out of your resentment towards 'casuals, RPr's and weekend gamers'.

This doesn't have to be a war - there are oft cited solutions that could've suited both sides of the debate.

I don't have any resentment towards them, I just think they should experience every aspect of the game, rather than confine themselves to a bubble. I have 9 characters, each one of them is a crafter. I do PvE, PvP, housing, trading, fishing, you name it. And I don't demand special treatment just because I'm unable or not willing to do any content. These people want to preserve the status quo and don't want to adapt.

Octopuss

JoeCapricorn wrote: »

Please require "Assault" level 2 for Rapid Maneuver again.

Not all of my characters are PVP friendly but all of them use Rapid Maneuver for the extra mount speed when riding around the world. This is a very basic ability I require for a new character just to move around especially when mount speed is so low! PLEASE do not require assault level 5 for this, please undo this change!

My characters are not geared for PvP AT ALL. In fact, I HATE PvP.
Guess what, I wanted the skill, so I spent a few days headlessly running with zerg in Cyro.
Was I having fun? Hell no.
[snip]

Noisivid wrote: »

this, I've been running battleground in an attempt to grind alliance war skill line to get Rapids back. 3 hours so far and probably another hour to go. Multiply that by over ten non-pvp characters. I could just buy the skill line as it's maxed on a few actual PvP characters but no. I'm not going to do that even if they drop the cost to 500 crowns.

at this rate is will take me over 50 hours in game to grind back to where i was. I don't think that's going to happen either.

I'm seriously considering quitting the game.

[snip] I have five chars and have the skill on every single one of them.

[edited for baiting]

Linaleah

Katahdin wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

TineaCruris wrote: »

Donny_Vito wrote: »

[Removed quote]

vigor is only good for stamina toons. This change screws anyone trying to level a magicka alt.

Fixed that for you. Stam characters need vigor.

SOME stamina characters need vigor. other stamina characters have acess to class heals. this change hurts anyone trying to level an alt - stamina OR magika.

It doesn't hurt anyone. It just slows you down some. You can still level any character without rapids. My first character was leveled without rapids. Still got leveled, despite not having rapids. Still farmed mats too without rapids.

and every single one of my stam characters, including nighblade was leveled without vigor. i didn't get vigor on my nighblade until I was half way through cp and only because guides back then kept telling my just how good caltrops are. so I ended up with vigor incidentally. was it nice? yes. was leveling my nighblade harder without proper class heal? yes. but was it anywhere NEAR as helpful to me as finding out I can go faster before my 6 month project of horse leveling was done? not. even remotely.

what_the

Wandering_Immigrant wrote: »

Call me crazy but I just don't think crafting mules with no skill points allocated to weapons or armor should be prioritized for any balancing decisions whatsoever.

👍 This in a nutshell.

Sgrug

what_the wrote: »

Wandering_Immigrant wrote: »

Call me crazy but I just don't think crafting mules with no skill points allocated to weapons or armor should be prioritized for any balancing decisions whatsoever.

👍 This in a nutshell.

While I agree, this is a straw-man. I do not recall anyone making the argument that rapids move was done for balancing or that rapids is a skill involved with balancing class performance.

Vigor was moved up to make sta players have a better experience in the early levels, rapids was moved to make a place for vigor. I do not recall another reason given for why rapids needs to be level 5 to obtain other than it took the second spot. I could be wrong, I just do not recall otherwise.

etchedpixels

Anfieldkris wrote: »

Addendum: Since I generally don't do PvP content, what's considered the best/most polite way to let your team know you plan to int for Rapids? Is there an option for serious players to boot you and you re-queue so they can compile a legitimate team? Or would it be best just to form a party of four who plan to intentionally throw?

They took away queueing as a group for battle grounds ages ago (and for reasons that may have made sense). I just did my best (which was dire), but I wasn't the only one there who was dire and nobody bitched on the EU server at least.

BG seems to just be a lottery anyway, if you get the least newbies on your team you win.

The supreme irony is in getting my rapids levelled up I ended up with a complete set of cowards gear on the char so I'm now not using rapids or even my mount

Question to the PvP folks - I know Cyrodiil and Imperial City stuff is taken very seriously but does anyone actually treat BG as anything that way ?

ThePedge

All Stamina PvP characters require Vigor.
All Stamina solo or non-healer group content requires Vigor.

So in order to unlock Vigor, you had to endure PvP without the main stamina heal, in order to unlock the stamina heal.

No one requires rapids. It's quality of life.

Jaraal

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

The point of the change was to make Rapids harder to get, so you will be more likely to purchase speed upgrades from the crown store. Vigor is just a diversion.

Gotta love conspiracy theories

These folks are professional marketers. They would not do something they knew would alienate a large portion of the player base if they didn't think the returns were worth it. The only other alternative is that an entire team of marketing professionals were so inept that they couldn't imagine the outcry of resentment over having a useful skill players have had for years rescinded on a whim. I'm sorry, but that's not even possible. The real conspiracy theory is to say that nobody thought yanking Rapids would have any affect on the players at all.

Noisivid

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Noisivid wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Noisivid wrote: »

this, I've been running battleground in an attempt to grind alliance war skill line to get Rapids back. 3 hours so far and probably another hour to go. Multiply that by over ten non-pvp characters. I could just buy the skill line as it's maxed on a few actual PvP characters but no. I'm not going to do that even if they drop the cost to 500 crowns.

at this rate is will take me over 50 hours in game to grind back to where i was. I don't think that's going to happen either.

I'm seriously considering quitting the game.

Ummm no way dude if you have PvP characters you know how easy it is to get rank 5 heal if you pve toons are magic just pop on a healing staff and heal zergs for 30 minutes it’s literally the super fast way to grind PvP.

um, "yeah, way dude".

I did't want to go into Cyro without Rapids as that's a pain due to traveling speeds. so I was running Battlegrounds. It's easy to check the time when you start and then when you stop. It's even easier to set a timer on your phone. This includes the que time, not just the time actually in the BG. So yeah, I'm dead certain about the time elapsed. And this would need to be done on multiple characters to get back a skill I've been using since launch.
It's just un-fun, kind of like when a serious PvPer has to run the same dungeon over and over and over to get that one piece of gear they need.

also, most of my characters are stam builds, only a few use vigor. They're all more than just "viable"

funny thing is if I had Rapids and needed to grind something out in PvP I would just go to Cyrodil and do it there. But I don't have Rapids on these characters anymore...

Okay no now you're spreading disinformation you can just death port (die and rez at a far keep or outpost you don't need a horse to PvP at all you have like 2 or 3 front lines you can death port or just teleport there. Yes you need a horse to push keeps but you don't need one to play Defense.

yeah, i know about the old blood port. been playing in cyro for years. you can only port to a keep that isn't flagged so you're either sitting there waiting for a keep to be attacked or you're still riding to a keep/outpost/resource that is under attack on a slow hore. Bear in mind that I play off-peak hours so some times there is very little or even absolutely nothing happening. either way I don't find it engaging gameplay. I guess I could go PvDoor?

also I said it was a pain not that it was undo-able.

there is no disinformation in my post.

Sgrug

Jaraal wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

The point of the change was to make Rapids harder to get, so you will be more likely to purchase speed upgrades from the crown store. Vigor is just a diversion.

Gotta love conspiracy theories

These folks are professional marketers. They would not do something they knew would alienate a large portion of the player base if they didn't think the returns were worth it. The only other alternative is that an entire team of marketing professionals were so inept that they couldn't imagine the outcry of resentment over having a useful skill players have had for years rescinded on a whim. I'm sorry, but that's not even possible. The real conspiracy theory is to say that nobody thought yanking Rapids would have any affect on the players at all.

The bolded part stands alone on its own without need for further justification, it is nearly apodictic.

iKorv1n

I've got TEN characters that just lost Rapid. I'm happy to not need to grind Vigor for the THREE Stamina characters I had left to do the grind for. I can't say that putting Vigor first was an ABSOLUTELY terrible idea because I know it's borderline necessary for some Stamina classes (although I managed fine for several years without it on all of them), but putting Rapids so far down the list is purely arbitrary. There's no functional reason. To be honest, there's no functional reason why ALL the PvP skills are gated by a leveling system to begin with when so many of them have incredibly important functions OUTSIDE of PvP, the thing ZOS once stated they wouldn't force anyone to do.

Noisivid

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

The point of the change was to make Rapids harder to get, so you will be more likely to purchase speed upgrades from the crown store. Vigor is just a diversion.

Gotta love conspiracy theories

or just an awareness of MMO monetization practices combined with a healthy dose of skepticism about corporate intentions.

This type of change is nothing new, make something inconvenient and tedious and sell a work around in the store. It's not a conspiracy, go do a search for "Lets go whaling" on YouTube. The original presentation was about mobile gaming but the basic ideas can be applied to MMOs and other game types also.

supposedly there is apparently a multi-player mount being introduced in the crown store sometime soon. There are threads about it at least.

Obsidian3

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Noisivid wrote: »

this, I've been running battleground in an attempt to grind alliance war skill line to get Rapids back. 3 hours so far and probably another hour to go. Multiply that by over ten non-pvp characters. I could just buy the skill line as it's maxed on a few actual PvP characters but no. I'm not going to do that even if they drop the cost to 500 crowns.

at this rate is will take me over 50 hours in game to grind back to where i was. I don't think that's going to happen either.

I'm seriously considering quitting the game.

Ummm no way dude if you have PvP characters you know how easy it is to get rank 5 heal if you pve toons are magic just pop on a healing staff and heal zergs for 30 minutes it’s literally the super fast way to grind PvP.

LOL NO!