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ESO direly need a central auction house ...
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ItsJustHashtag✭✭✭✭ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »Lapin_Logic wrote: »Lapin_Logic wrote: »First and foremost ALL MMO have one, Eq1 started without and so people were selling in a famous tunnel but a broker was added after 1-2 years.
If you wonder why we need one just watch Yale online course about free market, they
Thing with a central house is it makes it easier for market flippers to Vacuum the low cost items and mark them up.
With more small stores tou have many options to find the lowest price (add ons have less raw data and more disparate figures).
What ESO needs is More vendors, a way that multiple guilds are selectable from 1 vendor (say 10 guilds per trader), a Bid Cap on securing a vendor or a way for Every guild to sell to public (1 NPC called "The trader" that you can browse every guild that has at least 100 items for sale).
These measures would remove the current practice of only the wealthiest guilds being able to trade or guilds constantly passing the begging bowl for "Donations" or "Minimum sale requirements"
The current system enables "market flippers". game.
I mean it is easier for 1 guy with 1 billion gold to sit in a central trader, list all Tempering Alloy by lowest price and Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy.......
Than it is for a guy to check each vendor, travel zone then check all these, Yes they "Can" do it, and Have done it (one guy bought Every Tempering Alloy in a 12 Hour period, let the market panic and price gouge for a while then dumped everything for a profit.
At least disparate locations of traders gives a window where you can strike lucky on a bargain that others have missed or have not reached, but on a central trader it would be gone in a micro second.
How exactly does guild traders prevent this? Someone with all that amount of it could do the same with a guild trader and any with ttc would be able to find it there. It'd still sell up. And besides this doesn't put an argument in favor of guild traders. They could keep traders in locations but let anyone list in specific locations if that were the issue.
There are more than 200 traders in the game. A single person isn't going to be able to sit on more than three or four. TTC often is not current and even if it were one person isn't going to be able to keep tabs on all 200+ traders. Just isn't going to happen.
Oh yes because people who actually use traders totally won't use tamerial trade center and someone couldn't post a lot of stuff below normal value and people wouldn't see it at all right?
You missed the point. TTC is not live and up to date data. It is an approximation of price based not on what something sells for but what it is listed at. It gives an average and on most items one person listing those items well below market value will have little impact. Their prices will be seen as an anomaly and a few lucky players will buy those under priced items fairly quick then relist them at closer to market price.
TTC just tells you what was available and what it was listed at. The only real advantage it offers over those that don't use it is you can go directly to a trader that at least at one time had the item you were looking for. Then again the item you seek could be on a trader that hasn't been updated yet.
Yes the trader system does need some quality of life changes but it doesn't need drastic changes. It is accessible to all players that want to participate despite what people here try to tell you and it keeps the economy running very smooth. And for a lot of players it is a fun part of the game. So much so they would quit if it were removed.
Umm you do realize Tamerial Trade Center has a whole website you can just check right? It's not a great system. A lot of players would quit? Funny how people always go 'me and my friends will quit if ZOS does this' then it happens and they don't quit. It's all just a lot of hot air.
Yes I do realize that. That is why I was able to describe how it works.
Yeah a lot of players would quit. Why? Because for them the end game is trading. It is what makes the game fun. Removing the guild trade system would be like shutting down all PvP. It would cause people to quit. Some people may be arguing against a global market because they see it might cut into their profits. Most though I'm betting argue against it simply because it isn't fun.
This is the trade system we have now:
This is a global market place:
Ah the old 'you better not change it or we'll quit' threats. Same old happens all the time when ZOS does something they don't like but has that ever stopped it
This is the trade system we have now
Please explain. No one is giving anything away for free in this trading system and it does not look like anyone is asking to get anything for free.
And as I said before, Zos has nothing to fear. Players are not going to quit a game the like because of the trading system. Clearly Zos has done well keeping and growing the player base with the current trading system. We know this because Zos needed to add capacity to both PC servers last year due to the volume of player growth.
I wasn't saying anyone was giving stuff out for free more pointing it to how the trade guildies just make excuses calling others lazy for wanting an auction house.Please disable TTC for all these current system defenders, they are intended to run across Tamriel checking every trader by themselves, not abusing sideparty website to get centreal info.
Implying eso trading cancer system always has rare goods.MartiniDaniels wrote: »I don't think it is direly needed. In 3k hours of playing this game, there was no single moment when I wanted AH. I remember WoW's AH, awful place, no option to buy anything cheap and rare goods are simply non-existent.
Oh wait, they are simply reuploaded for absurd prices by speculators.
hahaha, I would be absolutely for banning any trading add-ons - it would make my business so much easier. You have still this idea that we would have to run around fetching prices - no we don't or at least I don't, I rely totally on in game actual sales in the guild activities UI - and if there would be no trading add-on, I would have an advantage before the others. Especially because I could as well assume that buyers will be hesitant to collect prices and just buy what I have to offer right away - if they don't have the info, my advantage. So bring it on!
Major trade hubs would heavily overprice items, because that would be the place where most would look first - and that can be used to make higher prices viable. In the end that would lead to more people not wanting to pay these prices and they will look more often what local traders have to offer - which brings in new customers - so yes, nice idea, I really like it.
And here we have it the real reason they don't want an auction house or any non guild trader making their "business" easier by fooling people into paying more.
You just don't understand economy - it is based on that there is an added value to any business activity - and this has to come from costumers. Stuff does not have a fixed price, this is an illusion, stuff has the price at which it can be sold to a certain customer group in a certain location. In a supermarket you find the same product just in different packages in the low price sector, the average price sector and a premium sector - this is to maximize the area under the demand-price graph - the integral of it would be the optimal profit - that is the area under this graph. And to get near to it, prices for the same stuff are different to get a different chunk under this graph from a different customer group with different opinions and buying behavior. But in the end it is the same product - you could call this fooling people, but that is how profits are maximized.
I feel like most of the complaints about the current system boil down to two misunderstandings of how it works. (On top of not understanding how economies work.)
1. People think an item's price is 10K because that is the price they are willing to pay for it. They fail to take into account that there are players willing to pay 20K, 30K, 40K for that same item depending on need or location. I am in 5 guilds with traders and there is no way I would list the same item in each of those guilds for the same price. Some locations I undercut myself a bit because that is how you sell. And while 10K may actually be the price for an item, players are looking for deals, not looking to pay the actual price. So you drop that 10K item to 7K and it sells a lot quicker. Do this for 15 items priced at 7K and you are making over 100K on only half your trading slots in one guild. So even if that guild as 20K dues, you are still making a ton of profit. Which leads to my next point.
2. People think 5K, 10K, 15K or even 20K in dues is too much. If you cannot afford those prices in dues, you probably don't have anything worth selling. The 5 guilds I am in have dues of: 3K, Free, 20K, 15K, 20K. So a total of 58K in dues a week. This is nothing. I break even on Monday morning after the traders flip and I open my mail. And it is usually from selling items at like 5-10K each. If you can't afford dues, join a free trader. The free trader I am in regularly has a spot in Elden Root.
And I am on console, so no external trading aids. The current system is great because it requires learning and experience to get good at it. Just like every other fuction in the game like Trials and Dungeons. If you don't want to do that, or find you can't make enough gold to justify dues pricing, then you really don't need to participate in it.
Straight fax, but you have the people wanting the AH so they don’t have to and they can reap the rewards without the effort. It’s so lazy and sad.7 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The system isn't archaic at all - it is just how the world is as well - outside of big cities. There are regional markets with regional prices and those can be higher or lower than the average in cities - reasons for both directions in pricing can be lower costs for shops outside of cities, but as well lower customer traffic - so it can be both ways and it often is - some is higher priced some is lower priced than in cities. A good mix of selling higher or lower creates a good average - if that cannot be achieved, businesses just close down and all loose by this - customers have to drive further to get what they need and the town where those traders disappear loose variety and are prone to become suburbs instead to be vibrant local communities.
And when it comes to malls - I don't know if you have really observed how high the fluctuation is in a mall - how many businesses have to close after a couple of years because intense price competition made their business no longer viable. The survivors of this are big brands, which can afford to run competitors into the ground and get them out of business - in the end what is left are big brands with the big brand prices - and the customer has to pay for it - at a higher price than he would have to - but he isn't even realizing it due to lack of competition.
It is archaic, as we have the internet, now.
Not that it being archaic is, necessarily, a bad thing, but it is.
The problem is that, as a trading system, it is incomplete and inaccurate, even for an archaic system.
It's missing a whole section of the supply chain.Edited by Tigerseye on June 30, 2020 2:14PM0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭These fees are anyway minuscule - I get them back basically instantly by the normal sales stream throughout a day, this is not unlike in EVE where my wallet is all the time blinking from ongoing sales - a steady stream and all I have to do is keep the offers stocked - but this is effort, something some might not be willing to do. When I login a character, mail is coming in with new sales - I have to restock those slots - this is something I have to do pretty much every time I login with a character. If I don't keep my slots utilized that steady stream of income would just stop.0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The system isn't archaic at all - it is just how the world is as well - outside of big cities. There are regional markets with regional prices and those can be higher or lower than the average in cities - reasons for both directions in pricing can be lower costs for shops outside of cities, but as well lower customer traffic - so it can be both ways and it often is - some is higher priced some is lower priced than in cities. A good mix of selling higher or lower creates a good average - if that cannot be achieved, businesses just close down and all loose by this - customers have to drive further to get what they need and the town where those traders disappear loose variety and are prone to become suburbs instead to be vibrant local communities.
And when it comes to malls - I don't know if you have really observed how high the fluctuation is in a mall - how many businesses have to close after a couple of years because intense price competition made their business no longer viable. The survivors of this are big brands, which can afford to run competitors into the ground and get them out of business - in the end what is left are big brands with the big brand prices - and the customer has to pay for it - at a higher price than he would have to - but he isn't even realizing it due to lack of competition.
It is archaic, as we have the internet, now.
Not that it being archaic is, necessarily, a bad thing, but it is.
The problem is that, as a trading system, it is incomplete and inaccurate, even for an archaic system.
It's missing a whole section of the supply chain.
Yes, and no - I can order a pizza via internet or phone - but I will nevertheless go to a restaurant and pay more for it. I can order clothes online, but I will nevertheless prefer a shopping spree and have a good time. And it is like that as well in ESO, I enjoy going on a shopping tour and look what people have to offer and eventually make a bargain - this is like exploration in a way, there is joy in doing that just for the purpose of doing it - and that is why people still go to malls or visit local shops in the real world, despite the internet - because it gives them joy and is entertaining and a family thing to do.
The thing with a shopping tour is, you don't have something specific in mind to buy - eventually you have nothing in mind at all, but this is what the shopping tour is for - to see what is offered and eventually take one or the other thing which you wouldn't buy otherwise. So it is a discovery tour in a way as well - which gives you new ideas about how to make your life more enjoyable - that is why people do it like that.Edited by Lysette on June 30, 2020 2:35PM2 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The system isn't archaic at all - it is just how the world is as well - outside of big cities. There are regional markets with regional prices and those can be higher or lower than the average in cities - reasons for both directions in pricing can be lower costs for shops outside of cities, but as well lower customer traffic - so it can be both ways and it often is - some is higher priced some is lower priced than in cities. A good mix of selling higher or lower creates a good average - if that cannot be achieved, businesses just close down and all loose by this - customers have to drive further to get what they need and the town where those traders disappear loose variety and are prone to become suburbs instead to be vibrant local communities.
And when it comes to malls - I don't know if you have really observed how high the fluctuation is in a mall - how many businesses have to close after a couple of years because intense price competition made their business no longer viable. The survivors of this are big brands, which can afford to run competitors into the ground and get them out of business - in the end what is left are big brands with the big brand prices - and the customer has to pay for it - at a higher price than he would have to - but he isn't even realizing it due to lack of competition.
It is archaic, as we have the internet, now.
Not that it being archaic is, necessarily, a bad thing, but it is.
The problem is that, as a trading system, it is incomplete and inaccurate, even for an archaic system.
It's missing a whole section of the supply chain.
Yes, and no - I can order a pizza via internet or phone - but I will nevertheless go to a restaurant and pay more for it. I can order clothes online, but I will nevertheless prefer a shopping spree and have a good time. And it is like that as well in ESO, I enjoy going on a shopping tour and look what people have to offer and eventually make a bargain - this is like exploration in a way, there is joy in doing that just for the purpose of doing it - and that is why people still go to malls or visit local shops in the real world, despite the internet - because it gives them joy and is entertaining and a family thing to do.
The thing with a shopping tour is, you don't have something specific in mind to buy - eventually you have nothing in mind at all, but this is what the shopping tour is for - to see what is offered and eventually take one or the other thing which you wouldn't buy otherwise. So it is a discovery tour in a way as well - which gives you new ideas about how to make your life more enjoyable - that is why people do it like that.
Yes, I know all that, but it is still an older system than the centralised internet one.
The main issue with its implementation in this game, though, is that there are no wholesalers, or warehouses, for raw materials.
Therefore, crafters are left struggling to buy materials retail.
No one seems to want to talk about that...?!0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The system isn't archaic at all - it is just how the world is as well - outside of big cities. There are regional markets with regional prices and those can be higher or lower than the average in cities - reasons for both directions in pricing can be lower costs for shops outside of cities, but as well lower customer traffic - so it can be both ways and it often is - some is higher priced some is lower priced than in cities. A good mix of selling higher or lower creates a good average - if that cannot be achieved, businesses just close down and all loose by this - customers have to drive further to get what they need and the town where those traders disappear loose variety and are prone to become suburbs instead to be vibrant local communities.
And when it comes to malls - I don't know if you have really observed how high the fluctuation is in a mall - how many businesses have to close after a couple of years because intense price competition made their business no longer viable. The survivors of this are big brands, which can afford to run competitors into the ground and get them out of business - in the end what is left are big brands with the big brand prices - and the customer has to pay for it - at a higher price than he would have to - but he isn't even realizing it due to lack of competition.
It is archaic, as we have the internet, now.
Not that it being archaic is, necessarily, a bad thing, but it is.
The problem is that, as a trading system, it is incomplete and inaccurate, even for an archaic system.
It's missing a whole section of the supply chain.
Yes, and no - I can order a pizza via internet or phone - but I will nevertheless go to a restaurant and pay more for it. I can order clothes online, but I will nevertheless prefer a shopping spree and have a good time. And it is like that as well in ESO, I enjoy going on a shopping tour and look what people have to offer and eventually make a bargain - this is like exploration in a way, there is joy in doing that just for the purpose of doing it - and that is why people still go to malls or visit local shops in the real world, despite the internet - because it gives them joy and is entertaining and a family thing to do.
The thing with a shopping tour is, you don't have something specific in mind to buy - eventually you have nothing in mind at all, but this is what the shopping tour is for - to see what is offered and eventually take one or the other thing which you wouldn't buy otherwise. So it is a discovery tour in a way as well - which gives you new ideas about how to make your life more enjoyable - that is why people do it like that.
Yes, I know all that, but it is still an older system than the centralised internet one.
The main issue with its implementation in this game, though, is that there are no wholesalers, or warehouses, for raw materials.
Therefore, crafters are left struggling to buy materials retail.
No one seems to want to talk about that...?!
What? There are no raw materials for crafters?- I'm selling some of those from time to time, because my crafting bag is full of this stuff - the problem is more that it doesn't sell as quickly as other stuff and so I have to make a decision, block that slot with an item which is slowly selling at a lower price, or better use it for gold upgrades, which sell like hot cakes. With gold upgrades a slot makes me tens of thousands of gold in a short amount of time, whereas crafting materials are in the thousands, an order of magnitude less.
From my experience it is by far easier to sell high value stuff - because people tend to buy it, who don''t care if something costs a few thousand gold more or less - they just have the money - whereas those buying low value stuff are often out of money and are really difficult customers - that is the reason, I guess.Edited by Lysette on June 30, 2020 2:51PM3 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The system isn't archaic at all - it is just how the world is as well - outside of big cities. There are regional markets with regional prices and those can be higher or lower than the average in cities - reasons for both directions in pricing can be lower costs for shops outside of cities, but as well lower customer traffic - so it can be both ways and it often is - some is higher priced some is lower priced than in cities. A good mix of selling higher or lower creates a good average - if that cannot be achieved, businesses just close down and all loose by this - customers have to drive further to get what they need and the town where those traders disappear loose variety and are prone to become suburbs instead to be vibrant local communities.
And when it comes to malls - I don't know if you have really observed how high the fluctuation is in a mall - how many businesses have to close after a couple of years because intense price competition made their business no longer viable. The survivors of this are big brands, which can afford to run competitors into the ground and get them out of business - in the end what is left are big brands with the big brand prices - and the customer has to pay for it - at a higher price than he would have to - but he isn't even realizing it due to lack of competition.
It is archaic, as we have the internet, now.
Not that it being archaic is, necessarily, a bad thing, but it is.
The problem is that, as a trading system, it is incomplete and inaccurate, even for an archaic system.
It's missing a whole section of the supply chain.
Yes, and no - I can order a pizza via internet or phone - but I will nevertheless go to a restaurant and pay more for it. I can order clothes online, but I will nevertheless prefer a shopping spree and have a good time. And it is like that as well in ESO, I enjoy going on a shopping tour and look what people have to offer and eventually make a bargain - this is like exploration in a way, there is joy in doing that just for the purpose of doing it - and that is why people still go to malls or visit local shops in the real world, despite the internet - because it gives them joy and is entertaining and a family thing to do.
The thing with a shopping tour is, you don't have something specific in mind to buy - eventually you have nothing in mind at all, but this is what the shopping tour is for - to see what is offered and eventually take one or the other thing which you wouldn't buy otherwise. So it is a discovery tour in a way as well - which gives you new ideas about how to make your life more enjoyable - that is why people do it like that.
Yes, I know all that, but it is still an older system than the centralised internet one.
The main issue with its implementation in this game, though, is that there are no wholesalers, or warehouses, for raw materials.
Therefore, crafters are left struggling to buy materials retail.
No one seems to want to talk about that...?!
What? There are no raw materials for crafters?- I'm selling some of those from time to time, because my crafting bag is full of this stuff - the problem is more that it doesn't sell as quickly as other stuff and so I have to make a decision, block that slot with an item which is slowly selling at a lower price, or better use it for gold upgrades, which sell like hot cakes. With gold upgrades a slot makes me tens of thousands of gold in a short amount of time, whereas crafting materials are in the thousands, an order of magnitude less.
You still haven't addressed my point.
Crafters need wholesalers, especially for rarer raw materials, like furnishing mats.
Otherwise, we are forced to travel around endless stores, for one or two at a time*, most of which have sold by the time we get there.
Also, if there were wholesalers, you would have extra slots for those mats, so wouldn't have to choose which to sell.
*Due to the fact most people don't have a crafting bag!Edited by Tigerseye on June 30, 2020 2:53PM0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The system isn't archaic at all - it is just how the world is as well - outside of big cities. There are regional markets with regional prices and those can be higher or lower than the average in cities - reasons for both directions in pricing can be lower costs for shops outside of cities, but as well lower customer traffic - so it can be both ways and it often is - some is higher priced some is lower priced than in cities. A good mix of selling higher or lower creates a good average - if that cannot be achieved, businesses just close down and all loose by this - customers have to drive further to get what they need and the town where those traders disappear loose variety and are prone to become suburbs instead to be vibrant local communities.
And when it comes to malls - I don't know if you have really observed how high the fluctuation is in a mall - how many businesses have to close after a couple of years because intense price competition made their business no longer viable. The survivors of this are big brands, which can afford to run competitors into the ground and get them out of business - in the end what is left are big brands with the big brand prices - and the customer has to pay for it - at a higher price than he would have to - but he isn't even realizing it due to lack of competition.
It is archaic, as we have the internet, now.
Not that it being archaic is, necessarily, a bad thing, but it is.
The problem is that, as a trading system, it is incomplete and inaccurate, even for an archaic system.
It's missing a whole section of the supply chain.
Yes, and no - I can order a pizza via internet or phone - but I will nevertheless go to a restaurant and pay more for it. I can order clothes online, but I will nevertheless prefer a shopping spree and have a good time. And it is like that as well in ESO, I enjoy going on a shopping tour and look what people have to offer and eventually make a bargain - this is like exploration in a way, there is joy in doing that just for the purpose of doing it - and that is why people still go to malls or visit local shops in the real world, despite the internet - because it gives them joy and is entertaining and a family thing to do.
The thing with a shopping tour is, you don't have something specific in mind to buy - eventually you have nothing in mind at all, but this is what the shopping tour is for - to see what is offered and eventually take one or the other thing which you wouldn't buy otherwise. So it is a discovery tour in a way as well - which gives you new ideas about how to make your life more enjoyable - that is why people do it like that.
Yes, I know all that, but it is still an older system than the centralised internet one.
The main issue with its implementation in this game, though, is that there are no wholesalers, or warehouses, for raw materials.
Therefore, crafters are left struggling to buy materials retail.
No one seems to want to talk about that...?!
What? There are no raw materials for crafters?- I'm selling some of those from time to time, because my crafting bag is full of this stuff - the problem is more that it doesn't sell as quickly as other stuff and so I have to make a decision, block that slot with an item which is slowly selling at a lower price, or better use it for gold upgrades, which sell like hot cakes. With gold upgrades a slot makes me tens of thousands of gold in a short amount of time, whereas crafting materials are in the thousands, an order of magnitude less.
You still haven't addressed my point.
Crafters need wholesalers, especially for rarer raw materials, like furnishing mats.
Otherwise, we are forced to travel around endless stores, for one or two at a time*, most of which have sold by the time we get there.
Also, if there were wholesalers, you would have extra slots for those mats, so wouldn't have to choose which to sell.
*Due to the fact most people don't have a crafting bag!
I see your point - but that is none of my problems - I sell to people who have the money and ESO+ most likely, because otherwise they wouldn't buy that stuff anyway. It is not my problem, what people need who spend pretty much nothing, so I'm not addressing it, my customers are those willing to spend money and having the required money to buy my stuff. I have to think like a business person, not like a charity - you have to understand this - I am not running a charity, I want to make money from doing this otherwise I wouldn't do it.
Take decorative way for example - sells, but slowly and isn't needed in quantities which would make the slot viable - if I have a free slot, I might put it up for sale - and replace it as soon as I need the slot for something what sells quickly and for a high price. It is the demand and the quantities which decide what I offer - any slot has to generate a good amount of income - well I use some slots as well to test things out - like with treasure maps currently - funny enough I sold more of them when I priced them at twice the amount as currently. Eventually I should price them even higher for better results - make them appear to be more valuable. Anyway, those overpriced sales made my money back quickly and if those do not sell within the next 2 days I just destroy the rest of them. if you ask why? Stuff which doesn't sell cannot block my slots - it is not worth offering it then and I don't want them to clutter my inventory and bank space as well.Edited by Lysette on June 30, 2020 3:13PM2 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The system isn't archaic at all - it is just how the world is as well - outside of big cities. There are regional markets with regional prices and those can be higher or lower than the average in cities - reasons for both directions in pricing can be lower costs for shops outside of cities, but as well lower customer traffic - so it can be both ways and it often is - some is higher priced some is lower priced than in cities. A good mix of selling higher or lower creates a good average - if that cannot be achieved, businesses just close down and all loose by this - customers have to drive further to get what they need and the town where those traders disappear loose variety and are prone to become suburbs instead to be vibrant local communities.
And when it comes to malls - I don't know if you have really observed how high the fluctuation is in a mall - how many businesses have to close after a couple of years because intense price competition made their business no longer viable. The survivors of this are big brands, which can afford to run competitors into the ground and get them out of business - in the end what is left are big brands with the big brand prices - and the customer has to pay for it - at a higher price than he would have to - but he isn't even realizing it due to lack of competition.
It is archaic, as we have the internet, now.
Not that it being archaic is, necessarily, a bad thing, but it is.
The problem is that, as a trading system, it is incomplete and inaccurate, even for an archaic system.
It's missing a whole section of the supply chain.
Yes, and no - I can order a pizza via internet or phone - but I will nevertheless go to a restaurant and pay more for it. I can order clothes online, but I will nevertheless prefer a shopping spree and have a good time. And it is like that as well in ESO, I enjoy going on a shopping tour and look what people have to offer and eventually make a bargain - this is like exploration in a way, there is joy in doing that just for the purpose of doing it - and that is why people still go to malls or visit local shops in the real world, despite the internet - because it gives them joy and is entertaining and a family thing to do.
The thing with a shopping tour is, you don't have something specific in mind to buy - eventually you have nothing in mind at all, but this is what the shopping tour is for - to see what is offered and eventually take one or the other thing which you wouldn't buy otherwise. So it is a discovery tour in a way as well - which gives you new ideas about how to make your life more enjoyable - that is why people do it like that.
Yes, I know all that, but it is still an older system than the centralised internet one.
The main issue with its implementation in this game, though, is that there are no wholesalers, or warehouses, for raw materials.
Therefore, crafters are left struggling to buy materials retail.
No one seems to want to talk about that...?!
What? There are no raw materials for crafters?- I'm selling some of those from time to time, because my crafting bag is full of this stuff - the problem is more that it doesn't sell as quickly as other stuff and so I have to make a decision, block that slot with an item which is slowly selling at a lower price, or better use it for gold upgrades, which sell like hot cakes. With gold upgrades a slot makes me tens of thousands of gold in a short amount of time, whereas crafting materials are in the thousands, an order of magnitude less.
You still haven't addressed my point.
Crafters need wholesalers, especially for rarer raw materials, like furnishing mats.
Otherwise, we are forced to travel around endless stores, for one or two at a time*, most of which have sold by the time we get there.
Also, if there were wholesalers, you would have extra slots for those mats, so wouldn't have to choose which to sell.
*Due to the fact most people don't have a crafting bag!
I see your point - but that is none of my problems - I sell to people who have the money and ESO+ most likely, because otherwise they wouldn't buy that stuff anyway. It is not my problem, what people need who spend pretty much nothing, so I'm not addressing it, my customers are those willing to spend money and having the required money to buy my stuff.
Who said anything about people "spending nothing"?!
...and who said anything about the crafters I am referring to not having ESO+?!
I'm talking about most of the sellers not having ESO+, so listing their furnishing mats in ones, or twos, rather than in full stacks.
Is "It is not my problem." really your final answer on the matter?
Edited by Tigerseye on June 30, 2020 3:07PM1 -
ItsJustHashtag✭✭✭✭The system isn't archaic at all - it is just how the world is as well - outside of big cities. There are regional markets with regional prices and those can be higher or lower than the average in cities - reasons for both directions in pricing can be lower costs for shops outside of cities, but as well lower customer traffic - so it can be both ways and it often is - some is higher priced some is lower priced than in cities. A good mix of selling higher or lower creates a good average - if that cannot be achieved, businesses just close down and all loose by this - customers have to drive further to get what they need and the town where those traders disappear loose variety and are prone to become suburbs instead to be vibrant local communities.
And when it comes to malls - I don't know if you have really observed how high the fluctuation is in a mall - how many businesses have to close after a couple of years because intense price competition made their business no longer viable. The survivors of this are big brands, which can afford to run competitors into the ground and get them out of business - in the end what is left are big brands with the big brand prices - and the customer has to pay for it - at a higher price than he would have to - but he isn't even realizing it due to lack of competition.
It is archaic, as we have the internet, now.
Not that it being archaic is, necessarily, a bad thing, but it is.
The problem is that, as a trading system, it is incomplete and inaccurate, even for an archaic system.
It's missing a whole section of the supply chain.
Yes, and no - I can order a pizza via internet or phone - but I will nevertheless go to a restaurant and pay more for it. I can order clothes online, but I will nevertheless prefer a shopping spree and have a good time. And it is like that as well in ESO, I enjoy going on a shopping tour and look what people have to offer and eventually make a bargain - this is like exploration in a way, there is joy in doing that just for the purpose of doing it - and that is why people still go to malls or visit local shops in the real world, despite the internet - because it gives them joy and is entertaining and a family thing to do.
The thing with a shopping tour is, you don't have something specific in mind to buy - eventually you have nothing in mind at all, but this is what the shopping tour is for - to see what is offered and eventually take one or the other thing which you wouldn't buy otherwise. So it is a discovery tour in a way as well - which gives you new ideas about how to make your life more enjoyable - that is why people do it like that.
Yes, I know all that, but it is still an older system than the centralised internet one.
The main issue with its implementation in this game, though, is that there are no wholesalers, or warehouses, for raw materials.
Therefore, crafters are left struggling to buy materials retail.
No one seems to want to talk about that...?!
What? There are no raw materials for crafters?- I'm selling some of those from time to time, because my crafting bag is full of this stuff - the problem is more that it doesn't sell as quickly as other stuff and so I have to make a decision, block that slot with an item which is slowly selling at a lower price, or better use it for gold upgrades, which sell like hot cakes. With gold upgrades a slot makes me tens of thousands of gold in a short amount of time, whereas crafting materials are in the thousands, an order of magnitude less.
You still haven't addressed my point.
Crafters need wholesalers, especially for rarer raw materials, like furnishing mats.
Otherwise, we are forced to travel around endless stores, for one or two at a time*, most of which have sold by the time we get there.
Also, if there were wholesalers, you would have extra slots for those mats, so wouldn't have to choose which to sell.
*Due to the fact most people don't have a crafting bag!
Crafters are the whole salers in this game. This game rewards you greatly for doing writs, especially across multiple characters.
The farmers are also the whole sellers.
You’re looking at this through a microscope and thinking it’s IRL when there is mechanisms in this game to produce the products, it just has to be farmed, crafted, and completed.Edited by ItsJustHashtag on June 30, 2020 3:09PM3 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The system isn't archaic at all - it is just how the world is as well - outside of big cities. There are regional markets with regional prices and those can be higher or lower than the average in cities - reasons for both directions in pricing can be lower costs for shops outside of cities, but as well lower customer traffic - so it can be both ways and it often is - some is higher priced some is lower priced than in cities. A good mix of selling higher or lower creates a good average - if that cannot be achieved, businesses just close down and all loose by this - customers have to drive further to get what they need and the town where those traders disappear loose variety and are prone to become suburbs instead to be vibrant local communities.
And when it comes to malls - I don't know if you have really observed how high the fluctuation is in a mall - how many businesses have to close after a couple of years because intense price competition made their business no longer viable. The survivors of this are big brands, which can afford to run competitors into the ground and get them out of business - in the end what is left are big brands with the big brand prices - and the customer has to pay for it - at a higher price than he would have to - but he isn't even realizing it due to lack of competition.
It is archaic, as we have the internet, now.
Not that it being archaic is, necessarily, a bad thing, but it is.
The problem is that, as a trading system, it is incomplete and inaccurate, even for an archaic system.
It's missing a whole section of the supply chain.
Yes, and no - I can order a pizza via internet or phone - but I will nevertheless go to a restaurant and pay more for it. I can order clothes online, but I will nevertheless prefer a shopping spree and have a good time. And it is like that as well in ESO, I enjoy going on a shopping tour and look what people have to offer and eventually make a bargain - this is like exploration in a way, there is joy in doing that just for the purpose of doing it - and that is why people still go to malls or visit local shops in the real world, despite the internet - because it gives them joy and is entertaining and a family thing to do.
The thing with a shopping tour is, you don't have something specific in mind to buy - eventually you have nothing in mind at all, but this is what the shopping tour is for - to see what is offered and eventually take one or the other thing which you wouldn't buy otherwise. So it is a discovery tour in a way as well - which gives you new ideas about how to make your life more enjoyable - that is why people do it like that.
Yes, I know all that, but it is still an older system than the centralised internet one.
The main issue with its implementation in this game, though, is that there are no wholesalers, or warehouses, for raw materials.
Therefore, crafters are left struggling to buy materials retail.
No one seems to want to talk about that...?!
What? There are no raw materials for crafters?- I'm selling some of those from time to time, because my crafting bag is full of this stuff - the problem is more that it doesn't sell as quickly as other stuff and so I have to make a decision, block that slot with an item which is slowly selling at a lower price, or better use it for gold upgrades, which sell like hot cakes. With gold upgrades a slot makes me tens of thousands of gold in a short amount of time, whereas crafting materials are in the thousands, an order of magnitude less.
You still haven't addressed my point.
Crafters need wholesalers, especially for rarer raw materials, like furnishing mats.
Otherwise, we are forced to travel around endless stores, for one or two at a time*, most of which have sold by the time we get there.
Also, if there were wholesalers, you would have extra slots for those mats, so wouldn't have to choose which to sell.
*Due to the fact most people don't have a crafting bag!
I see your point - but that is none of my problems - I sell to people who have the money and ESO+ most likely, because otherwise they wouldn't buy that stuff anyway. It is not my problem, what people need who spend pretty much nothing, so I'm not addressing it, my customers are those willing to spend money and having the required money to buy my stuff.
Who said anything about people "spending nothing"?!
...and who said anything about the crafters I am referring to not having ESO+?!
I'm talking about most of the sellers not having ESO+, so listing their furnishing mats in ones, or twos, rather than in full stacks.
Is "It is not my problem." really your final answer on the matter?
I fail to see what having ESO+ has to do with the trading system.2 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The system isn't archaic at all - it is just how the world is as well - outside of big cities. There are regional markets with regional prices and those can be higher or lower than the average in cities - reasons for both directions in pricing can be lower costs for shops outside of cities, but as well lower customer traffic - so it can be both ways and it often is - some is higher priced some is lower priced than in cities. A good mix of selling higher or lower creates a good average - if that cannot be achieved, businesses just close down and all loose by this - customers have to drive further to get what they need and the town where those traders disappear loose variety and are prone to become suburbs instead to be vibrant local communities.
And when it comes to malls - I don't know if you have really observed how high the fluctuation is in a mall - how many businesses have to close after a couple of years because intense price competition made their business no longer viable. The survivors of this are big brands, which can afford to run competitors into the ground and get them out of business - in the end what is left are big brands with the big brand prices - and the customer has to pay for it - at a higher price than he would have to - but he isn't even realizing it due to lack of competition.
It is archaic, as we have the internet, now.
Not that it being archaic is, necessarily, a bad thing, but it is.
The problem is that, as a trading system, it is incomplete and inaccurate, even for an archaic system.
It's missing a whole section of the supply chain.
Yes, and no - I can order a pizza via internet or phone - but I will nevertheless go to a restaurant and pay more for it. I can order clothes online, but I will nevertheless prefer a shopping spree and have a good time. And it is like that as well in ESO, I enjoy going on a shopping tour and look what people have to offer and eventually make a bargain - this is like exploration in a way, there is joy in doing that just for the purpose of doing it - and that is why people still go to malls or visit local shops in the real world, despite the internet - because it gives them joy and is entertaining and a family thing to do.
The thing with a shopping tour is, you don't have something specific in mind to buy - eventually you have nothing in mind at all, but this is what the shopping tour is for - to see what is offered and eventually take one or the other thing which you wouldn't buy otherwise. So it is a discovery tour in a way as well - which gives you new ideas about how to make your life more enjoyable - that is why people do it like that.
Yes, I know all that, but it is still an older system than the centralised internet one.
The main issue with its implementation in this game, though, is that there are no wholesalers, or warehouses, for raw materials.
Therefore, crafters are left struggling to buy materials retail.
No one seems to want to talk about that...?!
What? There are no raw materials for crafters?- I'm selling some of those from time to time, because my crafting bag is full of this stuff - the problem is more that it doesn't sell as quickly as other stuff and so I have to make a decision, block that slot with an item which is slowly selling at a lower price, or better use it for gold upgrades, which sell like hot cakes. With gold upgrades a slot makes me tens of thousands of gold in a short amount of time, whereas crafting materials are in the thousands, an order of magnitude less.
You still haven't addressed my point.
Crafters need wholesalers, especially for rarer raw materials, like furnishing mats.
Otherwise, we are forced to travel around endless stores, for one or two at a time*, most of which have sold by the time we get there.
Also, if there were wholesalers, you would have extra slots for those mats, so wouldn't have to choose which to sell.
*Due to the fact most people don't have a crafting bag!
I see your point - but that is none of my problems - I sell to people who have the money and ESO+ most likely, because otherwise they wouldn't buy that stuff anyway. It is not my problem, what people need who spend pretty much nothing, so I'm not addressing it, my customers are those willing to spend money and having the required money to buy my stuff.
Who said anything about people "spending nothing"?!
...and who said anything about the crafters I am referring to not having ESO+?!
I'm talking about most of the sellers not having ESO+, so listing their furnishing mats in ones, or twos, rather than in full stacks.
Is "It is not my problem." really your final answer on the matter?
I fail to see what having ESO+ has to do with the trading system.
Then you need to look a bit harder, idk.0 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ItsJustHashtag wrote: »The system isn't archaic at all - it is just how the world is as well - outside of big cities. There are regional markets with regional prices and those can be higher or lower than the average in cities - reasons for both directions in pricing can be lower costs for shops outside of cities, but as well lower customer traffic - so it can be both ways and it often is - some is higher priced some is lower priced than in cities. A good mix of selling higher or lower creates a good average - if that cannot be achieved, businesses just close down and all loose by this - customers have to drive further to get what they need and the town where those traders disappear loose variety and are prone to become suburbs instead to be vibrant local communities.
And when it comes to malls - I don't know if you have really observed how high the fluctuation is in a mall - how many businesses have to close after a couple of years because intense price competition made their business no longer viable. The survivors of this are big brands, which can afford to run competitors into the ground and get them out of business - in the end what is left are big brands with the big brand prices - and the customer has to pay for it - at a higher price than he would have to - but he isn't even realizing it due to lack of competition.
It is archaic, as we have the internet, now.
Not that it being archaic is, necessarily, a bad thing, but it is.
The problem is that, as a trading system, it is incomplete and inaccurate, even for an archaic system.
It's missing a whole section of the supply chain.
Yes, and no - I can order a pizza via internet or phone - but I will nevertheless go to a restaurant and pay more for it. I can order clothes online, but I will nevertheless prefer a shopping spree and have a good time. And it is like that as well in ESO, I enjoy going on a shopping tour and look what people have to offer and eventually make a bargain - this is like exploration in a way, there is joy in doing that just for the purpose of doing it - and that is why people still go to malls or visit local shops in the real world, despite the internet - because it gives them joy and is entertaining and a family thing to do.
The thing with a shopping tour is, you don't have something specific in mind to buy - eventually you have nothing in mind at all, but this is what the shopping tour is for - to see what is offered and eventually take one or the other thing which you wouldn't buy otherwise. So it is a discovery tour in a way as well - which gives you new ideas about how to make your life more enjoyable - that is why people do it like that.
Yes, I know all that, but it is still an older system than the centralised internet one.
The main issue with its implementation in this game, though, is that there are no wholesalers, or warehouses, for raw materials.
Therefore, crafters are left struggling to buy materials retail.
No one seems to want to talk about that...?!
What? There are no raw materials for crafters?- I'm selling some of those from time to time, because my crafting bag is full of this stuff - the problem is more that it doesn't sell as quickly as other stuff and so I have to make a decision, block that slot with an item which is slowly selling at a lower price, or better use it for gold upgrades, which sell like hot cakes. With gold upgrades a slot makes me tens of thousands of gold in a short amount of time, whereas crafting materials are in the thousands, an order of magnitude less.
You still haven't addressed my point.
Crafters need wholesalers, especially for rarer raw materials, like furnishing mats.
Otherwise, we are forced to travel around endless stores, for one or two at a time*, most of which have sold by the time we get there.
Also, if there were wholesalers, you would have extra slots for those mats, so wouldn't have to choose which to sell.
*Due to the fact most people don't have a crafting bag!
Crafters are the whole salers in this game. This game rewards you greatly for doing writs, especially across multiple characters.
The farmers are also the whole sellers.
You’re looking at this through a microscope and thinking it’s IRL when there is mechanisms in this game to produce the products, it just has to be farmed, crafted, and completed.
No.
When I say crafters, I mean people who craft things and then sell them.
The fact that some people, who may also happen to be crafters, sell off a few excess, commonly found, mats they may happen to get and not need is totally irrelevant, here.
There are no true wholesalers in this game, because the entire system is set up in a retail fashion, with lots of separate, tiny stores.
...and this problem is exascerbated even further, via the fact that most people don't have even a basic craft bag, so end up listing things in ones and twos, in an attempt to clear their inventories.Edited by Tigerseye on June 30, 2020 3:18PM0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The system isn't archaic at all - it is just how the world is as well - outside of big cities. There are regional markets with regional prices and those can be higher or lower than the average in cities - reasons for both directions in pricing can be lower costs for shops outside of cities, but as well lower customer traffic - so it can be both ways and it often is - some is higher priced some is lower priced than in cities. A good mix of selling higher or lower creates a good average - if that cannot be achieved, businesses just close down and all loose by this - customers have to drive further to get what they need and the town where those traders disappear loose variety and are prone to become suburbs instead to be vibrant local communities.
And when it comes to malls - I don't know if you have really observed how high the fluctuation is in a mall - how many businesses have to close after a couple of years because intense price competition made their business no longer viable. The survivors of this are big brands, which can afford to run competitors into the ground and get them out of business - in the end what is left are big brands with the big brand prices - and the customer has to pay for it - at a higher price than he would have to - but he isn't even realizing it due to lack of competition.
It is archaic, as we have the internet, now.
Not that it being archaic is, necessarily, a bad thing, but it is.
The problem is that, as a trading system, it is incomplete and inaccurate, even for an archaic system.
It's missing a whole section of the supply chain.
Yes, and no - I can order a pizza via internet or phone - but I will nevertheless go to a restaurant and pay more for it. I can order clothes online, but I will nevertheless prefer a shopping spree and have a good time. And it is like that as well in ESO, I enjoy going on a shopping tour and look what people have to offer and eventually make a bargain - this is like exploration in a way, there is joy in doing that just for the purpose of doing it - and that is why people still go to malls or visit local shops in the real world, despite the internet - because it gives them joy and is entertaining and a family thing to do.
The thing with a shopping tour is, you don't have something specific in mind to buy - eventually you have nothing in mind at all, but this is what the shopping tour is for - to see what is offered and eventually take one or the other thing which you wouldn't buy otherwise. So it is a discovery tour in a way as well - which gives you new ideas about how to make your life more enjoyable - that is why people do it like that.
Yes, I know all that, but it is still an older system than the centralised internet one.
The main issue with its implementation in this game, though, is that there are no wholesalers, or warehouses, for raw materials.
Therefore, crafters are left struggling to buy materials retail.
No one seems to want to talk about that...?!
What? There are no raw materials for crafters?- I'm selling some of those from time to time, because my crafting bag is full of this stuff - the problem is more that it doesn't sell as quickly as other stuff and so I have to make a decision, block that slot with an item which is slowly selling at a lower price, or better use it for gold upgrades, which sell like hot cakes. With gold upgrades a slot makes me tens of thousands of gold in a short amount of time, whereas crafting materials are in the thousands, an order of magnitude less.
You still haven't addressed my point.
Crafters need wholesalers, especially for rarer raw materials, like furnishing mats.
Otherwise, we are forced to travel around endless stores, for one or two at a time*, most of which have sold by the time we get there.
Also, if there were wholesalers, you would have extra slots for those mats, so wouldn't have to choose which to sell.
*Due to the fact most people don't have a crafting bag!
I see your point - but that is none of my problems - I sell to people who have the money and ESO+ most likely, because otherwise they wouldn't buy that stuff anyway. It is not my problem, what people need who spend pretty much nothing, so I'm not addressing it, my customers are those willing to spend money and having the required money to buy my stuff.
Who said anything about people "spending nothing"?!
...and who said anything about the crafters I am referring to not having ESO+?!
I'm talking about most of the sellers not having ESO+, so listing their furnishing mats in ones, or twos, rather than in full stacks.
Is "It is not my problem." really your final answer on the matter?
Yeah, the current system is good as it is - that is not my problem, if people are not using it in the right way. But it is my problem, when people want to destroy a working system for an awful auction house approach and take the fun out of trading in this game. It is a game system, which is there to make people enjoy it and spend time on it - any activity in the game is made to make people spend time in the game and enjoy it - and this trading system is enjoyable, much more than an AH would be. Trading is part of the game and designed on purpose like this - and it is good as it is. One could argue about an information tool in game - this could be something, but otherwise the decentralized approach is a really good one.3 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭No, it is not good.
It is not good for me, for a start.
That may not be your problem, Lysette, but it is mine.3 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ItsJustHashtag wrote: »The system isn't archaic at all - it is just how the world is as well - outside of big cities. There are regional markets with regional prices and those can be higher or lower than the average in cities - reasons for both directions in pricing can be lower costs for shops outside of cities, but as well lower customer traffic - so it can be both ways and it often is - some is higher priced some is lower priced than in cities. A good mix of selling higher or lower creates a good average - if that cannot be achieved, businesses just close down and all loose by this - customers have to drive further to get what they need and the town where those traders disappear loose variety and are prone to become suburbs instead to be vibrant local communities.
And when it comes to malls - I don't know if you have really observed how high the fluctuation is in a mall - how many businesses have to close after a couple of years because intense price competition made their business no longer viable. The survivors of this are big brands, which can afford to run competitors into the ground and get them out of business - in the end what is left are big brands with the big brand prices - and the customer has to pay for it - at a higher price than he would have to - but he isn't even realizing it due to lack of competition.
It is archaic, as we have the internet, now.
Not that it being archaic is, necessarily, a bad thing, but it is.
The problem is that, as a trading system, it is incomplete and inaccurate, even for an archaic system.
It's missing a whole section of the supply chain.
Yes, and no - I can order a pizza via internet or phone - but I will nevertheless go to a restaurant and pay more for it. I can order clothes online, but I will nevertheless prefer a shopping spree and have a good time. And it is like that as well in ESO, I enjoy going on a shopping tour and look what people have to offer and eventually make a bargain - this is like exploration in a way, there is joy in doing that just for the purpose of doing it - and that is why people still go to malls or visit local shops in the real world, despite the internet - because it gives them joy and is entertaining and a family thing to do.
The thing with a shopping tour is, you don't have something specific in mind to buy - eventually you have nothing in mind at all, but this is what the shopping tour is for - to see what is offered and eventually take one or the other thing which you wouldn't buy otherwise. So it is a discovery tour in a way as well - which gives you new ideas about how to make your life more enjoyable - that is why people do it like that.
Yes, I know all that, but it is still an older system than the centralised internet one.
The main issue with its implementation in this game, though, is that there are no wholesalers, or warehouses, for raw materials.
Therefore, crafters are left struggling to buy materials retail.
No one seems to want to talk about that...?!
What? There are no raw materials for crafters?- I'm selling some of those from time to time, because my crafting bag is full of this stuff - the problem is more that it doesn't sell as quickly as other stuff and so I have to make a decision, block that slot with an item which is slowly selling at a lower price, or better use it for gold upgrades, which sell like hot cakes. With gold upgrades a slot makes me tens of thousands of gold in a short amount of time, whereas crafting materials are in the thousands, an order of magnitude less.
You still haven't addressed my point.
Crafters need wholesalers, especially for rarer raw materials, like furnishing mats.
Otherwise, we are forced to travel around endless stores, for one or two at a time*, most of which have sold by the time we get there.
Also, if there were wholesalers, you would have extra slots for those mats, so wouldn't have to choose which to sell.
*Due to the fact most people don't have a crafting bag!
Crafters are the whole salers in this game. This game rewards you greatly for doing writs, especially across multiple characters.
The farmers are also the whole sellers.
You’re looking at this through a microscope and thinking it’s IRL when there is mechanisms in this game to produce the products, it just has to be farmed, crafted, and completed.
yes, basically this - I have 14 characters who all do crafting writs - and there are gold upgrades in the reward boxes, pretty much every day a couple of those with 14 characters - so I have always something of value to sell within a week.1 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ItsJustHashtag wrote: »The system isn't archaic at all - it is just how the world is as well - outside of big cities. There are regional markets with regional prices and those can be higher or lower than the average in cities - reasons for both directions in pricing can be lower costs for shops outside of cities, but as well lower customer traffic - so it can be both ways and it often is - some is higher priced some is lower priced than in cities. A good mix of selling higher or lower creates a good average - if that cannot be achieved, businesses just close down and all loose by this - customers have to drive further to get what they need and the town where those traders disappear loose variety and are prone to become suburbs instead to be vibrant local communities.
And when it comes to malls - I don't know if you have really observed how high the fluctuation is in a mall - how many businesses have to close after a couple of years because intense price competition made their business no longer viable. The survivors of this are big brands, which can afford to run competitors into the ground and get them out of business - in the end what is left are big brands with the big brand prices - and the customer has to pay for it - at a higher price than he would have to - but he isn't even realizing it due to lack of competition.
It is archaic, as we have the internet, now.
Not that it being archaic is, necessarily, a bad thing, but it is.
The problem is that, as a trading system, it is incomplete and inaccurate, even for an archaic system.
It's missing a whole section of the supply chain.
Yes, and no - I can order a pizza via internet or phone - but I will nevertheless go to a restaurant and pay more for it. I can order clothes online, but I will nevertheless prefer a shopping spree and have a good time. And it is like that as well in ESO, I enjoy going on a shopping tour and look what people have to offer and eventually make a bargain - this is like exploration in a way, there is joy in doing that just for the purpose of doing it - and that is why people still go to malls or visit local shops in the real world, despite the internet - because it gives them joy and is entertaining and a family thing to do.
The thing with a shopping tour is, you don't have something specific in mind to buy - eventually you have nothing in mind at all, but this is what the shopping tour is for - to see what is offered and eventually take one or the other thing which you wouldn't buy otherwise. So it is a discovery tour in a way as well - which gives you new ideas about how to make your life more enjoyable - that is why people do it like that.
Yes, I know all that, but it is still an older system than the centralised internet one.
The main issue with its implementation in this game, though, is that there are no wholesalers, or warehouses, for raw materials.
Therefore, crafters are left struggling to buy materials retail.
No one seems to want to talk about that...?!
What? There are no raw materials for crafters?- I'm selling some of those from time to time, because my crafting bag is full of this stuff - the problem is more that it doesn't sell as quickly as other stuff and so I have to make a decision, block that slot with an item which is slowly selling at a lower price, or better use it for gold upgrades, which sell like hot cakes. With gold upgrades a slot makes me tens of thousands of gold in a short amount of time, whereas crafting materials are in the thousands, an order of magnitude less.
You still haven't addressed my point.
Crafters need wholesalers, especially for rarer raw materials, like furnishing mats.
Otherwise, we are forced to travel around endless stores, for one or two at a time*, most of which have sold by the time we get there.
Also, if there were wholesalers, you would have extra slots for those mats, so wouldn't have to choose which to sell.
*Due to the fact most people don't have a crafting bag!
Crafters are the whole salers in this game. This game rewards you greatly for doing writs, especially across multiple characters.
The farmers are also the whole sellers.
You’re looking at this through a microscope and thinking it’s IRL when there is mechanisms in this game to produce the products, it just has to be farmed, crafted, and completed.
No.
When I say crafters, I mean people who craft things and then sell them.
The fact that some people, who may also happen to be crafters, sell off a few excess, commonly found, mats they may happen to get and not need is totally irrelevant, here.
There are no true wholesalers in this game, because the entire system is set up in a retail fashion, with lots of separate, tiny stores.
...and this problem is exascerbated even further, via the fact that most people don't have even a basic craft bag, so end up listing things in ones and twos, in an attempt to clear their inventories.
The thing with the crafting bag is this - if people do not realize, that it is a must-have, if they want to participate in crafting and selling these items, then they are most likely as well no good in selling these things either - no investment, no good results. And this goes for crafting as well - they will have to buy from the market or create schemes, how to get the materials they need - eventually make deals with people who like to farm or something like this - being an entrepreneur, being active and creative - not just sitting there and waiting for things which might or might not happen - an entrepreneur is a doer.Edited by Lysette on June 30, 2020 3:37PM1 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ItsJustHashtag wrote: »The system isn't archaic at all - it is just how the world is as well - outside of big cities. There are regional markets with regional prices and those can be higher or lower than the average in cities - reasons for both directions in pricing can be lower costs for shops outside of cities, but as well lower customer traffic - so it can be both ways and it often is - some is higher priced some is lower priced than in cities. A good mix of selling higher or lower creates a good average - if that cannot be achieved, businesses just close down and all loose by this - customers have to drive further to get what they need and the town where those traders disappear loose variety and are prone to become suburbs instead to be vibrant local communities.
And when it comes to malls - I don't know if you have really observed how high the fluctuation is in a mall - how many businesses have to close after a couple of years because intense price competition made their business no longer viable. The survivors of this are big brands, which can afford to run competitors into the ground and get them out of business - in the end what is left are big brands with the big brand prices - and the customer has to pay for it - at a higher price than he would have to - but he isn't even realizing it due to lack of competition.
It is archaic, as we have the internet, now.
Not that it being archaic is, necessarily, a bad thing, but it is.
The problem is that, as a trading system, it is incomplete and inaccurate, even for an archaic system.
It's missing a whole section of the supply chain.
Yes, and no - I can order a pizza via internet or phone - but I will nevertheless go to a restaurant and pay more for it. I can order clothes online, but I will nevertheless prefer a shopping spree and have a good time. And it is like that as well in ESO, I enjoy going on a shopping tour and look what people have to offer and eventually make a bargain - this is like exploration in a way, there is joy in doing that just for the purpose of doing it - and that is why people still go to malls or visit local shops in the real world, despite the internet - because it gives them joy and is entertaining and a family thing to do.
The thing with a shopping tour is, you don't have something specific in mind to buy - eventually you have nothing in mind at all, but this is what the shopping tour is for - to see what is offered and eventually take one or the other thing which you wouldn't buy otherwise. So it is a discovery tour in a way as well - which gives you new ideas about how to make your life more enjoyable - that is why people do it like that.
Yes, I know all that, but it is still an older system than the centralised internet one.
The main issue with its implementation in this game, though, is that there are no wholesalers, or warehouses, for raw materials.
Therefore, crafters are left struggling to buy materials retail.
No one seems to want to talk about that...?!
What? There are no raw materials for crafters?- I'm selling some of those from time to time, because my crafting bag is full of this stuff - the problem is more that it doesn't sell as quickly as other stuff and so I have to make a decision, block that slot with an item which is slowly selling at a lower price, or better use it for gold upgrades, which sell like hot cakes. With gold upgrades a slot makes me tens of thousands of gold in a short amount of time, whereas crafting materials are in the thousands, an order of magnitude less.
You still haven't addressed my point.
Crafters need wholesalers, especially for rarer raw materials, like furnishing mats.
Otherwise, we are forced to travel around endless stores, for one or two at a time*, most of which have sold by the time we get there.
Also, if there were wholesalers, you would have extra slots for those mats, so wouldn't have to choose which to sell.
*Due to the fact most people don't have a crafting bag!
Crafters are the whole salers in this game. This game rewards you greatly for doing writs, especially across multiple characters.
The farmers are also the whole sellers.
You’re looking at this through a microscope and thinking it’s IRL when there is mechanisms in this game to produce the products, it just has to be farmed, crafted, and completed.
No.
When I say crafters, I mean people who craft things and then sell them.
The fact that some people, who may also happen to be crafters, sell off a few excess, commonly found, mats they may happen to get and not need is totally irrelevant, here.
There are no true wholesalers in this game, because the entire system is set up in a retail fashion, with lots of separate, tiny stores.
...and this problem is exascerbated even further, via the fact that most people don't have even a basic craft bag, so end up listing things in ones and twos, in an attempt to clear their inventories.
The thing with the crafting bag is this - if people do not realize, that it is a must-have, if they want to participate in crafting and selling these items, then they are most likely as well no good in selling these things either - no investment, no good results. And this goes for crafting as well - they will have to buy from the market or create schemes, how to get the materials they need - eventually make deals with people who like to farm or something like this - being an entrepreneur, being active and creative - not just sitting there and waiting for things which might or might not happen - an entrepreneur is a doer.
There are warehouses, wholesalers and suppliers in real life, Lysette.
They exist in precisely the same traditional type of buying/selling environment ESO is trying to replicate.
"Enterpreneurs" use them all the time.
It is, therefore, not in any way unreasonable, or lazy, to expect them to exist in game, as well.
Either that, or (if you don't like that suggestion, either) just scrap it all and implement the truly lazy alternative; the global auction house for everything.
Which is not ideal for crafters, either, but is better than the current situation for most.
I am just trying to find a workable, logical, compromise, here.
0 -
ItsJustHashtag✭✭✭✭ItsJustHashtag wrote: »The system isn't archaic at all - it is just how the world is as well - outside of big cities. There are regional markets with regional prices and those can be higher or lower than the average in cities - reasons for both directions in pricing can be lower costs for shops outside of cities, but as well lower customer traffic - so it can be both ways and it often is - some is higher priced some is lower priced than in cities. A good mix of selling higher or lower creates a good average - if that cannot be achieved, businesses just close down and all loose by this - customers have to drive further to get what they need and the town where those traders disappear loose variety and are prone to become suburbs instead to be vibrant local communities.
And when it comes to malls - I don't know if you have really observed how high the fluctuation is in a mall - how many businesses have to close after a couple of years because intense price competition made their business no longer viable. The survivors of this are big brands, which can afford to run competitors into the ground and get them out of business - in the end what is left are big brands with the big brand prices - and the customer has to pay for it - at a higher price than he would have to - but he isn't even realizing it due to lack of competition.
It is archaic, as we have the internet, now.
Not that it being archaic is, necessarily, a bad thing, but it is.
The problem is that, as a trading system, it is incomplete and inaccurate, even for an archaic system.
It's missing a whole section of the supply chain.
Yes, and no - I can order a pizza via internet or phone - but I will nevertheless go to a restaurant and pay more for it. I can order clothes online, but I will nevertheless prefer a shopping spree and have a good time. And it is like that as well in ESO, I enjoy going on a shopping tour and look what people have to offer and eventually make a bargain - this is like exploration in a way, there is joy in doing that just for the purpose of doing it - and that is why people still go to malls or visit local shops in the real world, despite the internet - because it gives them joy and is entertaining and a family thing to do.
The thing with a shopping tour is, you don't have something specific in mind to buy - eventually you have nothing in mind at all, but this is what the shopping tour is for - to see what is offered and eventually take one or the other thing which you wouldn't buy otherwise. So it is a discovery tour in a way as well - which gives you new ideas about how to make your life more enjoyable - that is why people do it like that.
Yes, I know all that, but it is still an older system than the centralised internet one.
The main issue with its implementation in this game, though, is that there are no wholesalers, or warehouses, for raw materials.
Therefore, crafters are left struggling to buy materials retail.
No one seems to want to talk about that...?!
What? There are no raw materials for crafters?- I'm selling some of those from time to time, because my crafting bag is full of this stuff - the problem is more that it doesn't sell as quickly as other stuff and so I have to make a decision, block that slot with an item which is slowly selling at a lower price, or better use it for gold upgrades, which sell like hot cakes. With gold upgrades a slot makes me tens of thousands of gold in a short amount of time, whereas crafting materials are in the thousands, an order of magnitude less.
You still haven't addressed my point.
Crafters need wholesalers, especially for rarer raw materials, like furnishing mats.
Otherwise, we are forced to travel around endless stores, for one or two at a time*, most of which have sold by the time we get there.
Also, if there were wholesalers, you would have extra slots for those mats, so wouldn't have to choose which to sell.
*Due to the fact most people don't have a crafting bag!
Crafters are the whole salers in this game. This game rewards you greatly for doing writs, especially across multiple characters.
The farmers are also the whole sellers.
You’re looking at this through a microscope and thinking it’s IRL when there is mechanisms in this game to produce the products, it just has to be farmed, crafted, and completed.
No.
When I say crafters, I mean people who craft things and then sell them.
The fact that some people, who may also happen to be crafters, sell off a few excess, commonly found, mats they may happen to get and not need is totally irrelevant, here.
There are no true wholesalers in this game, because the entire system is set up in a retail fashion, with lots of separate, tiny stores.
...and this problem is exascerbated even further, via the fact that most people don't have even a basic craft bag, so end up listing things in ones and twos, in an attempt to clear their inventories.
The thing with the crafting bag is this - if people do not realize, that it is a must-have, if they want to participate in crafting and selling these items, then they are most likely as well no good in selling these things either - no investment, no good results. And this goes for crafting as well - they will have to buy from the market or create schemes, how to get the materials they need - eventually make deals with people who like to farm or something like this - being an entrepreneur, being active and creative - not just sitting there and waiting for things which might or might not happen - an entrepreneur is a doer.
There are warehouses, wholesalers and suppliers in real life, Lysette.
They exist in precisely the same traditional type of buying/selling environment ESO is trying to replicate.
"Enterpreneurs" use them all the time.
It is, therefore, not in any way unreasonable, or lazy, to expect them to exist in game, as well.
Either that, or (if you don't like that suggestion, either) just scrap it all and implement the truly lazy alternative; the global auction house for everything.
Which is not ideal for crafters, either, but is better than the current situation for most.
I am just trying to find a workable, logical, compromise, here.
The game itself via nodes and other means of obtaining materials and goods is your warehouse.
The wholesalers are the farmers/crafters/etc
The suppliers are the sellers within the trade who can either buy the goods, obtain the goods, and etc3 -
amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭PullaStormy wrote: »
Indeed they could have got it right, if the game had been designed for a keyboard and without the astonishing stupid light attack and with way to target group member and ti cycle through enemies it would have been very good. Anyway it is ok but i don t think i will play long, i loved Skyrim despite the mouse targeting an the boring block mechanic , one of my favorite toon was a indeed a shield expert ... but it is wrong in a muti-player setting.
I have a lot of problems with ESO, but the 2x hotbar of 5 abilities and controller friendliness is far from a problem.
That screams nothing beyond PC-elitism.0 -
amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Kiralyn2000 wrote: »Why do so many people want MMOs to be clones of each other?
(note: I understand that this game will aways have guild traders, I'm not asking for a change)
I don't particularly want MMOs to be clones of one another. But "not wanting to be like other MMOs" is not a good reason to avoid basic QoL features. (Like, would you want them to say "oh, we don't want to have a map, because other MMOs have one!")
The guild trader system may work well for people who truly enjoy and/or are dedicated to, trading. The same kind of folks who, in games with a central AH, "work the market" every day for a profit.
It's kind of lousy for someone who doesn't trade often, though - I've never been a big seller. I don't have "5k sales/week", I might sell two things one week, then not sell anything for three weeks, then sell 8 things one day. A central AH works well for that - I can do a quick search to see what the prevailing price is, undercut by ~5%, and post my thing. It sells in 5 minutes or less, and I go about my day having spent less than a couple minutes on it. And that's all I care about trading - I'm not trying to maximize my profit, I don't care about "markets" or "economy", I just want to sell some random thing for more than it would vendor for.
So, in this game, joining a guild to do my total lack of planned or regular selling, makes no sense. And hawking wares in chat is too much effort. So I just vendor or destroy stuff, and ignore the game's economy completely...
...and this is part of why the people who love the Guild Vendor system, love it. Everyone like me, who throws their hands up in disgust and opts out of the economy, means that there's less goods in the supply, so the Real Traders get to keep their prices higher. Style pages, memento boxes, holiday goods... any that I find just 'nope' their way out of the economy, increasing the profits of the guilds.
But, like I said, I know that it'll never change. So I roll my eyes at these threads just as much as you guys do. /shrug
100% this.
I've had friends who have left this game 100% because there was no auction house.
I don't craft things frequently enough to join a trader guild. But I also would like to get some kind of return on my overland sets that I loot other than just deconning them for mats I don't really need more of.0 -
amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭VaranisArano wrote: »This again?
When you raise a dead horse like an Auction House for another beating, please consider, do you really have anything new to add?
Not only are there over a 100 pages of forum search results on the topic, here's a brief perusal of several of the major (more than 10 pages) threads on the topic throughout the years. Undoubtedly there are more large threads, but this should give you the gist, should you desire to hear more or less the same arguments repeated over and over.
April 2020:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/524375/auction-houses-yes-or-no/
October 2019: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/496558/lets-have-an-auction-house-please/
June 2019: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/479475/poll-would-you-like-a-global-ah-as-in-other-games/
January 2018: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/391681/moved/
January 2017: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/315763/this-game-desperately-needs-an-auction-house-of-sort
November 2016: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/301682/still-no-auction-house-seriously
July 2016: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/280083/auction-house/
August 2015: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/203608/this-guild-trader-system-is-so-bad
May 2015: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/169750/why-is-everybody-against-an-auction-house
March 2015: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/158723/auction-house/
April 2014: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/85978/auction-house
April 2014: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/70211/auction-house-is-a-must/
Seriously, do you really have anything new to add?
And finally, some reminders of ZOS' intentions and official comments:
March 2013: "Will there be an auction house?" asked of Creative Director Paul Sage @5:00 into the video: https://www.buffed.de/TESO-The-Elder-Scrolls-Online-Spiel-15582/News/The-Elder-Scrolls-Online-Creative-Director-Paul-Sage-aeussert-sich-zur-Item-Progression-zu-Mounts-und-zum-Gildensystem-im-Video-1072227/
August 2014: Benefits of Guilds - "The Road Ahead" https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/1059
August 2014: Introduction of PVE Guild Traders - Creating ESO: Identity and Update 3 https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/1087
May 2014: Lack of an Auction House - Ask Us Anything Variety Pack # 14: https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/947
April 10, 2015: ESO Live @ https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3924079#Comment_3924079
April 28,2015 : ESO Live "Ask Us Anything" @37:40 "Player guilds are actually an integral part of our world and trader access is a key benefit to guild membership. We don't have any plans to change this at this time." Also, the transcripte: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1760019#Comment_1760019
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5N17KZ_ZCK0&list=PLZng8hzxXSt6-402bM1G2UuZbtnlrMn0z&index=23
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2875274#Comment_2875274
There well may be more. I don't regularly watch ESO Live, so I only pick up those comments when someone on the forums referenced a specific ESO Live.
Are those going to convince the pro-AH crowd? Probably not. Hope springs eternal, and there's all sorts of arguments about "Well, they said they weren't and then they did!" or "But all of those are old quotes!"
Sure. Whatever. If you really want an Auction House, I don't expect the Devs' thinking to convince you. You want what you want. To be frank, I'm pretty sure an undated "Nope, still not doing it" would stop the debate.
The above links are for the people going "What have the Devs actually said about the possibility of an Auction House?"
So far? A resounding "No."
Considering the fact that the devs of this game have a bad history of horrid design choices, their reasoning for not wanting an auction house doesn't really fly.1 -
Kwik1✭✭✭✭I see a lot of players defending the current system, but most of them are from the sellers position.
Maybe try to look at it from the buyers position as well?
As a buyer I would REALLY prefer to have 1 spot to look for everything. The current system basically encourages players to pay higher prices then they should for convenience so they don't have to keep checking merchants. If people can't see how this inflates prices they have blinders on.
A single market spot would help the BUYER huge. Currently, even with a good computer, my load times can become atrocious, so I tend to overpay for something just because I don't want to waste time hitting other zones. If I had 1 spot where it showed all merchants I could see all prices and buy from vendors who are selling for a FAIR price and not overcharging because it happens to be a convenient vendor.
As a seller, the current system is better, but for a buyer it is certainly worse.
Would really like to see an argument saying it is better for the buyer to have to travel to multiple zones to find something for a fair price.
I was looking for a celestial staves motif last night. The vendors that were conveniently close had a few but they also had them for sale at 3 times the TTC price. I finally went to TTC's website and found a vendor that had it at a fair price and I went and got it. I shouldn't have to go to an outside website to find a fair price on something in the game =(.
How about people look at this from BOTH sides and not just 1?2 -
PizzaCat82✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I love when people come in here and leave response after response without any sort of proof. AH destroys economies? Show me the proof. All those other games with AHs are doing fine.
People who want centralized trading hubs are lazy? Sounds like you just want to keep taking advantage of the current system because it works best for you. Laziness isn't a factor but you want to act like you deserve the current system when in fact you're just the ones taking advantage of it the most currently.
We're arguing around eachother, refusing to change our minds and spouting off whatever nonsense without a shred of proof or even logic in most cases.
You guys aren't economists. You aren't the devs either.2 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ItsJustHashtag wrote: »ItsJustHashtag wrote: »The system isn't archaic at all - it is just how the world is as well - outside of big cities. There are regional markets with regional prices and those can be higher or lower than the average in cities - reasons for both directions in pricing can be lower costs for shops outside of cities, but as well lower customer traffic - so it can be both ways and it often is - some is higher priced some is lower priced than in cities. A good mix of selling higher or lower creates a good average - if that cannot be achieved, businesses just close down and all loose by this - customers have to drive further to get what they need and the town where those traders disappear loose variety and are prone to become suburbs instead to be vibrant local communities.
And when it comes to malls - I don't know if you have really observed how high the fluctuation is in a mall - how many businesses have to close after a couple of years because intense price competition made their business no longer viable. The survivors of this are big brands, which can afford to run competitors into the ground and get them out of business - in the end what is left are big brands with the big brand prices - and the customer has to pay for it - at a higher price than he would have to - but he isn't even realizing it due to lack of competition.
It is archaic, as we have the internet, now.
Not that it being archaic is, necessarily, a bad thing, but it is.
The problem is that, as a trading system, it is incomplete and inaccurate, even for an archaic system.
It's missing a whole section of the supply chain.
Yes, and no - I can order a pizza via internet or phone - but I will nevertheless go to a restaurant and pay more for it. I can order clothes online, but I will nevertheless prefer a shopping spree and have a good time. And it is like that as well in ESO, I enjoy going on a shopping tour and look what people have to offer and eventually make a bargain - this is like exploration in a way, there is joy in doing that just for the purpose of doing it - and that is why people still go to malls or visit local shops in the real world, despite the internet - because it gives them joy and is entertaining and a family thing to do.
The thing with a shopping tour is, you don't have something specific in mind to buy - eventually you have nothing in mind at all, but this is what the shopping tour is for - to see what is offered and eventually take one or the other thing which you wouldn't buy otherwise. So it is a discovery tour in a way as well - which gives you new ideas about how to make your life more enjoyable - that is why people do it like that.
Yes, I know all that, but it is still an older system than the centralised internet one.
The main issue with its implementation in this game, though, is that there are no wholesalers, or warehouses, for raw materials.
Therefore, crafters are left struggling to buy materials retail.
No one seems to want to talk about that...?!
What? There are no raw materials for crafters?- I'm selling some of those from time to time, because my crafting bag is full of this stuff - the problem is more that it doesn't sell as quickly as other stuff and so I have to make a decision, block that slot with an item which is slowly selling at a lower price, or better use it for gold upgrades, which sell like hot cakes. With gold upgrades a slot makes me tens of thousands of gold in a short amount of time, whereas crafting materials are in the thousands, an order of magnitude less.
You still haven't addressed my point.
Crafters need wholesalers, especially for rarer raw materials, like furnishing mats.
Otherwise, we are forced to travel around endless stores, for one or two at a time*, most of which have sold by the time we get there.
Also, if there were wholesalers, you would have extra slots for those mats, so wouldn't have to choose which to sell.
*Due to the fact most people don't have a crafting bag!
Crafters are the whole salers in this game. This game rewards you greatly for doing writs, especially across multiple characters.
The farmers are also the whole sellers.
You’re looking at this through a microscope and thinking it’s IRL when there is mechanisms in this game to produce the products, it just has to be farmed, crafted, and completed.
No.
When I say crafters, I mean people who craft things and then sell them.
The fact that some people, who may also happen to be crafters, sell off a few excess, commonly found, mats they may happen to get and not need is totally irrelevant, here.
There are no true wholesalers in this game, because the entire system is set up in a retail fashion, with lots of separate, tiny stores.
...and this problem is exascerbated even further, via the fact that most people don't have even a basic craft bag, so end up listing things in ones and twos, in an attempt to clear their inventories.
The thing with the crafting bag is this - if people do not realize, that it is a must-have, if they want to participate in crafting and selling these items, then they are most likely as well no good in selling these things either - no investment, no good results. And this goes for crafting as well - they will have to buy from the market or create schemes, how to get the materials they need - eventually make deals with people who like to farm or something like this - being an entrepreneur, being active and creative - not just sitting there and waiting for things which might or might not happen - an entrepreneur is a doer.
There are warehouses, wholesalers and suppliers in real life, Lysette.
They exist in precisely the same traditional type of buying/selling environment ESO is trying to replicate.
"Enterpreneurs" use them all the time.
It is, therefore, not in any way unreasonable, or lazy, to expect them to exist in game, as well.
Either that, or (if you don't like that suggestion, either) just scrap it all and implement the truly lazy alternative; the global auction house for everything.
Which is not ideal for crafters, either, but is better than the current situation for most.
I am just trying to find a workable, logical, compromise, here.
The game itself via nodes and other means of obtaining materials and goods is your warehouse.
The wholesalers are the farmers/crafters/etc
The suppliers are the sellers within the trade who can either buy the goods, obtain the goods, and etc
No they are not.
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Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ItsJustHashtag wrote: »The system isn't archaic at all - it is just how the world is as well - outside of big cities. There are regional markets with regional prices and those can be higher or lower than the average in cities - reasons for both directions in pricing can be lower costs for shops outside of cities, but as well lower customer traffic - so it can be both ways and it often is - some is higher priced some is lower priced than in cities. A good mix of selling higher or lower creates a good average - if that cannot be achieved, businesses just close down and all loose by this - customers have to drive further to get what they need and the town where those traders disappear loose variety and are prone to become suburbs instead to be vibrant local communities.
And when it comes to malls - I don't know if you have really observed how high the fluctuation is in a mall - how many businesses have to close after a couple of years because intense price competition made their business no longer viable. The survivors of this are big brands, which can afford to run competitors into the ground and get them out of business - in the end what is left are big brands with the big brand prices - and the customer has to pay for it - at a higher price than he would have to - but he isn't even realizing it due to lack of competition.
It is archaic, as we have the internet, now.
Not that it being archaic is, necessarily, a bad thing, but it is.
The problem is that, as a trading system, it is incomplete and inaccurate, even for an archaic system.
It's missing a whole section of the supply chain.
Yes, and no - I can order a pizza via internet or phone - but I will nevertheless go to a restaurant and pay more for it. I can order clothes online, but I will nevertheless prefer a shopping spree and have a good time. And it is like that as well in ESO, I enjoy going on a shopping tour and look what people have to offer and eventually make a bargain - this is like exploration in a way, there is joy in doing that just for the purpose of doing it - and that is why people still go to malls or visit local shops in the real world, despite the internet - because it gives them joy and is entertaining and a family thing to do.
The thing with a shopping tour is, you don't have something specific in mind to buy - eventually you have nothing in mind at all, but this is what the shopping tour is for - to see what is offered and eventually take one or the other thing which you wouldn't buy otherwise. So it is a discovery tour in a way as well - which gives you new ideas about how to make your life more enjoyable - that is why people do it like that.
Yes, I know all that, but it is still an older system than the centralised internet one.
The main issue with its implementation in this game, though, is that there are no wholesalers, or warehouses, for raw materials.
Therefore, crafters are left struggling to buy materials retail.
No one seems to want to talk about that...?!
What? There are no raw materials for crafters?- I'm selling some of those from time to time, because my crafting bag is full of this stuff - the problem is more that it doesn't sell as quickly as other stuff and so I have to make a decision, block that slot with an item which is slowly selling at a lower price, or better use it for gold upgrades, which sell like hot cakes. With gold upgrades a slot makes me tens of thousands of gold in a short amount of time, whereas crafting materials are in the thousands, an order of magnitude less.
You still haven't addressed my point.
Crafters need wholesalers, especially for rarer raw materials, like furnishing mats.
Otherwise, we are forced to travel around endless stores, for one or two at a time*, most of which have sold by the time we get there.
Also, if there were wholesalers, you would have extra slots for those mats, so wouldn't have to choose which to sell.
*Due to the fact most people don't have a crafting bag!
Crafters are the whole salers in this game. This game rewards you greatly for doing writs, especially across multiple characters.
The farmers are also the whole sellers.
You’re looking at this through a microscope and thinking it’s IRL when there is mechanisms in this game to produce the products, it just has to be farmed, crafted, and completed.
No.
When I say crafters, I mean people who craft things and then sell them.
The fact that some people, who may also happen to be crafters, sell off a few excess, commonly found, mats they may happen to get and not need is totally irrelevant, here.
There are no true wholesalers in this game, because the entire system is set up in a retail fashion, with lots of separate, tiny stores.
...and this problem is exascerbated even further, via the fact that most people don't have even a basic craft bag, so end up listing things in ones and twos, in an attempt to clear their inventories.
The thing with the crafting bag is this - if people do not realize, that it is a must-have, if they want to participate in crafting and selling these items, then they are most likely as well no good in selling these things either - no investment, no good results. And this goes for crafting as well - they will have to buy from the market or create schemes, how to get the materials they need - eventually make deals with people who like to farm or something like this - being an entrepreneur, being active and creative - not just sitting there and waiting for things which might or might not happen - an entrepreneur is a doer.
There are warehouses, wholesalers and suppliers in real life, Lysette.
They exist in precisely the same traditional type of buying/selling environment ESO is trying to replicate.
"Enterpreneurs" use them all the time.
It is, therefore, not in any way unreasonable, or lazy, to expect them to exist in game, as well.
Either that, or (if you don't like that suggestion, either) just scrap it all and implement the truly lazy alternative; the global auction house for everything.
Which is not ideal for crafters, either, but is better than the current situation for most.
I am just trying to find a workable, logical, compromise, here.
Now how do I explain this - let's say you want to have an income of 300k/week from a guild - that means every slot has to make in average 10k in sales per week - if you do that with low price mats like wood for example, then you have to sell about 200x10x30 = 60.000 items - now where does that material come from to do that, let's say you could farm quickly enough to generate 1 low mat about every 10 seconds - 6 per minute - than it would take you 10.000 minutes - about 167 hours - you can't do this - an 80 hours/week investment is already near the limit of what can be done. There are no wholesalers for this stuff because it is not viable at those prices people are willing to pay for it and just not doable because it is too much work.
Now why does this work with an auction house - because farming bots do the job - this doesn't help people who want to play in a normal way, it will just make those rich who cheat by using bots. And the market will be flooded with stuff and prices go down for this kind of mats, and normal people who just want to farm a little won't have fun doing it, because they gain like nothing from it.Edited by Lysette on June 30, 2020 4:37PM2 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I could spend 5 mins saying why they are not, but I could also spend 5 mins saying the sky is blue and other poiintless and obvious things, so what would be the point?0
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