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ESO direly need a central auction house ...
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ZaroktheImmortal✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »Lapin_Logic wrote: »Lapin_Logic wrote: »First and foremost ALL MMO have one, Eq1 started without and so people were selling in a famous tunnel but a broker was added after 1-2 years.
If you wonder why we need one just watch Yale online course about free market, they
Thing with a central house is it makes it easier for market flippers to Vacuum the low cost items and mark them up.
With more small stores tou have many options to find the lowest price (add ons have less raw data and more disparate figures).
What ESO needs is More vendors, a way that multiple guilds are selectable from 1 vendor (say 10 guilds per trader), a Bid Cap on securing a vendor or a way for Every guild to sell to public (1 NPC called "The trader" that you can browse every guild that has at least 100 items for sale).
These measures would remove the current practice of only the wealthiest guilds being able to trade or guilds constantly passing the begging bowl for "Donations" or "Minimum sale requirements"
The current system enables "market flippers". game.
I mean it is easier for 1 guy with 1 billion gold to sit in a central trader, list all Tempering Alloy by lowest price and Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy.......
Than it is for a guy to check each vendor, travel zone then check all these, Yes they "Can" do it, and Have done it (one guy bought Every Tempering Alloy in a 12 Hour period, let the market panic and price gouge for a while then dumped everything for a profit.
At least disparate locations of traders gives a window where you can strike lucky on a bargain that others have missed or have not reached, but on a central trader it would be gone in a micro second.
How exactly does guild traders prevent this? Someone with all that amount of it could do the same with a guild trader and any with ttc would be able to find it there. It'd still sell up. And besides this doesn't put an argument in favor of guild traders. They could keep traders in locations but let anyone list in specific locations if that were the issue.
There are more than 200 traders in the game. A single person isn't going to be able to sit on more than three or four. TTC often is not current and even if it were one person isn't going to be able to keep tabs on all 200+ traders. Just isn't going to happen.
Oh yes because people who actually use traders totally won't use tamerial trade center and someone couldn't post a lot of stuff below normal value and people wouldn't see it at all right?
You missed the point. TTC is not live and up to date data. It is an approximation of price based not on what something sells for but what it is listed at. It gives an average and on most items one person listing those items well below market value will have little impact. Their prices will be seen as an anomaly and a few lucky players will buy those under priced items fairly quick then relist them at closer to market price.
TTC just tells you what was available and what it was listed at. The only real advantage it offers over those that don't use it is you can go directly to a trader that at least at one time had the item you were looking for. Then again the item you seek could be on a trader that hasn't been updated yet.
Yes the trader system does need some quality of life changes but it doesn't need drastic changes. It is accessible to all players that want to participate despite what people here try to tell you and it keeps the economy running very smooth. And for a lot of players it is a fun part of the game. So much so they would quit if it were removed.
Umm you do realize Tamerial Trade Center has a whole website you can just check right? It's not a great system. A lot of players would quit? Funny how people always go 'me and my friends will quit if ZOS does this' then it happens and they don't quit. It's all just a lot of hot air.
Yes I do realize that. That is why I was able to describe how it works.
Yeah a lot of players would quit. Why? Because for them the end game is trading. It is what makes the game fun. Removing the guild trade system would be like shutting down all PvP. It would cause people to quit. Some people may be arguing against a global market because they see it might cut into their profits. Most though I'm betting argue against it simply because it isn't fun.
This is the trade system we have now:
This is a global market place:
Ah the old 'you better not change it or we'll quit' threats. Same old happens all the time when ZOS does something they don't like but has that ever stopped it
[snip]
[Edited to remove Inappropriate Content]Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on June 30, 2020 5:21PM4 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »Lapin_Logic wrote: »Lapin_Logic wrote: »First and foremost ALL MMO have one, Eq1 started without and so people were selling in a famous tunnel but a broker was added after 1-2 years.
If you wonder why we need one just watch Yale online course about free market, they
Thing with a central house is it makes it easier for market flippers to Vacuum the low cost items and mark them up.
With more small stores tou have many options to find the lowest price (add ons have less raw data and more disparate figures).
What ESO needs is More vendors, a way that multiple guilds are selectable from 1 vendor (say 10 guilds per trader), a Bid Cap on securing a vendor or a way for Every guild to sell to public (1 NPC called "The trader" that you can browse every guild that has at least 100 items for sale).
These measures would remove the current practice of only the wealthiest guilds being able to trade or guilds constantly passing the begging bowl for "Donations" or "Minimum sale requirements"
The current system enables "market flippers". game.
I mean it is easier for 1 guy with 1 billion gold to sit in a central trader, list all Tempering Alloy by lowest price and Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy.......
Than it is for a guy to check each vendor, travel zone then check all these, Yes they "Can" do it, and Have done it (one guy bought Every Tempering Alloy in a 12 Hour period, let the market panic and price gouge for a while then dumped everything for a profit.
At least disparate locations of traders gives a window where you can strike lucky on a bargain that others have missed or have not reached, but on a central trader it would be gone in a micro second.
How exactly does guild traders prevent this? Someone with all that amount of it could do the same with a guild trader and any with ttc would be able to find it there. It'd still sell up. And besides this doesn't put an argument in favor of guild traders. They could keep traders in locations but let anyone list in specific locations if that were the issue.
There are more than 200 traders in the game. A single person isn't going to be able to sit on more than three or four. TTC often is not current and even if it were one person isn't going to be able to keep tabs on all 200+ traders. Just isn't going to happen.
Oh yes because people who actually use traders totally won't use tamerial trade center and someone couldn't post a lot of stuff below normal value and people wouldn't see it at all right?
You missed the point. TTC is not live and up to date data. It is an approximation of price based not on what something sells for but what it is listed at. It gives an average and on most items one person listing those items well below market value will have little impact. Their prices will be seen as an anomaly and a few lucky players will buy those under priced items fairly quick then relist them at closer to market price.
TTC just tells you what was available and what it was listed at. The only real advantage it offers over those that don't use it is you can go directly to a trader that at least at one time had the item you were looking for. Then again the item you seek could be on a trader that hasn't been updated yet.
Yes the trader system does need some quality of life changes but it doesn't need drastic changes. It is accessible to all players that want to participate despite what people here try to tell you and it keeps the economy running very smooth. And for a lot of players it is a fun part of the game. So much so they would quit if it were removed.
Umm you do realize Tamerial Trade Center has a whole website you can just check right? It's not a great system. A lot of players would quit? Funny how people always go 'me and my friends will quit if ZOS does this' then it happens and they don't quit. It's all just a lot of hot air.
Yes I do realize that. That is why I was able to describe how it works.
Yeah a lot of players would quit. Why? Because for them the end game is trading. It is what makes the game fun. Removing the guild trade system would be like shutting down all PvP. It would cause people to quit. Some people may be arguing against a global market because they see it might cut into their profits. Most though I'm betting argue against it simply because it isn't fun.
This is the trade system we have now:
This is a global market place:
Ah the old 'you better not change it or we'll quit' threats. Same old happens all the time when ZOS does something they don't like but has that ever stopped it
[snip]
Please explain. No one is giving anything away for free in this trading system and it does not look like anyone is asking to get anything for free.
And as I said before, Zos has nothing to fear. Players are not going to quit a game the like because of the trading system. Clearly Zos has done well keeping and growing the player base with the current trading system. We know this because Zos needed to add capacity to both PC servers last year due to the volume of player growth.Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on June 30, 2020 5:22PM4 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »Lapin_Logic wrote: »Lapin_Logic wrote: »First and foremost ALL MMO have one, Eq1 started without and so people were selling in a famous tunnel but a broker was added after 1-2 years.
If you wonder why we need one just watch Yale online course about free market, they
Thing with a central house is it makes it easier for market flippers to Vacuum the low cost items and mark them up.
With more small stores tou have many options to find the lowest price (add ons have less raw data and more disparate figures).
What ESO needs is More vendors, a way that multiple guilds are selectable from 1 vendor (say 10 guilds per trader), a Bid Cap on securing a vendor or a way for Every guild to sell to public (1 NPC called "The trader" that you can browse every guild that has at least 100 items for sale).
These measures would remove the current practice of only the wealthiest guilds being able to trade or guilds constantly passing the begging bowl for "Donations" or "Minimum sale requirements"
The current system enables "market flippers". game.
I mean it is easier for 1 guy with 1 billion gold to sit in a central trader, list all Tempering Alloy by lowest price and Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy.......
Than it is for a guy to check each vendor, travel zone then check all these, Yes they "Can" do it, and Have done it (one guy bought Every Tempering Alloy in a 12 Hour period, let the market panic and price gouge for a while then dumped everything for a profit.
At least disparate locations of traders gives a window where you can strike lucky on a bargain that others have missed or have not reached, but on a central trader it would be gone in a micro second.
How exactly does guild traders prevent this? Someone with all that amount of it could do the same with a guild trader and any with ttc would be able to find it there. It'd still sell up. And besides this doesn't put an argument in favor of guild traders. They could keep traders in locations but let anyone list in specific locations if that were the issue.
There are more than 200 traders in the game. A single person isn't going to be able to sit on more than three or four. TTC often is not current and even if it were one person isn't going to be able to keep tabs on all 200+ traders. Just isn't going to happen.
Oh yes because people who actually use traders totally won't use tamerial trade center and someone couldn't post a lot of stuff below normal value and people wouldn't see it at all right?
You missed the point. TTC is not live and up to date data. It is an approximation of price based not on what something sells for but what it is listed at. It gives an average and on most items one person listing those items well below market value will have little impact. Their prices will be seen as an anomaly and a few lucky players will buy those under priced items fairly quick then relist them at closer to market price.
TTC just tells you what was available and what it was listed at. The only real advantage it offers over those that don't use it is you can go directly to a trader that at least at one time had the item you were looking for. Then again the item you seek could be on a trader that hasn't been updated yet.
Yes the trader system does need some quality of life changes but it doesn't need drastic changes. It is accessible to all players that want to participate despite what people here try to tell you and it keeps the economy running very smooth. And for a lot of players it is a fun part of the game. So much so they would quit if it were removed.
Umm you do realize Tamerial Trade Center has a whole website you can just check right? It's not a great system. A lot of players would quit? Funny how people always go 'me and my friends will quit if ZOS does this' then it happens and they don't quit. It's all just a lot of hot air.
Yes I do realize that. That is why I was able to describe how it works.
Yeah a lot of players would quit. Why? Because for them the end game is trading. It is what makes the game fun. Removing the guild trade system would be like shutting down all PvP. It would cause people to quit. Some people may be arguing against a global market because they see it might cut into their profits. Most though I'm betting argue against it simply because it isn't fun.
This is the trade system we have now:
This is a global market place:
Ah the old 'you better not change it or we'll quit' threats. Same old happens all the time when ZOS does something they don't like but has that ever stopped it
[snip]
Nah I,m not threatening to quit. I enjoy other aspects of the game much more than trading. I am in a trade guild because what I do in the game generates a lot of items I can sell. Also most trade guilds I have been in have been really social guilds doing a variety of activities, so no I'm not threatening to leave. I am telling you people will leave. They play the game because of the market. Without it there would be little incentive for them to stay. Maybe it will be enough to affect the population more than a blip maybe not but they will leave.
So why take away a part of the game a good number of players enjoy just to offer up a stagnant system that brings more problems than it solves? I know it is hard for some people to see but there is a portion of the game population that treats the trading system as end game. They put in time getting to the top just like trial guilds or PvP guilds. A global market takes away a part of their game they enjoy.
And you know that roller coaster/park bench comparison is dead on.
IDK some people will quit. The numbers might not be significant but there are some that will quit.Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on June 30, 2020 5:22PMand then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."3 -
Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »Lapin_Logic wrote: »Lapin_Logic wrote: »First and foremost ALL MMO have one, Eq1 started without and so people were selling in a famous tunnel but a broker was added after 1-2 years.
If you wonder why we need one just watch Yale online course about free market, they
Thing with a central house is it makes it easier for market flippers to Vacuum the low cost items and mark them up.
With more small stores tou have many options to find the lowest price (add ons have less raw data and more disparate figures).
What ESO needs is More vendors, a way that multiple guilds are selectable from 1 vendor (say 10 guilds per trader), a Bid Cap on securing a vendor or a way for Every guild to sell to public (1 NPC called "The trader" that you can browse every guild that has at least 100 items for sale).
These measures would remove the current practice of only the wealthiest guilds being able to trade or guilds constantly passing the begging bowl for "Donations" or "Minimum sale requirements"
The current system enables "market flippers". game.
I mean it is easier for 1 guy with 1 billion gold to sit in a central trader, list all Tempering Alloy by lowest price and Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy.......
Than it is for a guy to check each vendor, travel zone then check all these, Yes they "Can" do it, and Have done it (one guy bought Every Tempering Alloy in a 12 Hour period, let the market panic and price gouge for a while then dumped everything for a profit.
At least disparate locations of traders gives a window where you can strike lucky on a bargain that others have missed or have not reached, but on a central trader it would be gone in a micro second.
How exactly does guild traders prevent this? Someone with all that amount of it could do the same with a guild trader and any with ttc would be able to find it there. It'd still sell up. And besides this doesn't put an argument in favor of guild traders. They could keep traders in locations but let anyone list in specific locations if that were the issue.
There are more than 200 traders in the game. A single person isn't going to be able to sit on more than three or four. TTC often is not current and even if it were one person isn't going to be able to keep tabs on all 200+ traders. Just isn't going to happen.
Oh yes because people who actually use traders totally won't use tamerial trade center and someone couldn't post a lot of stuff below normal value and people wouldn't see it at all right?
You missed the point. TTC is not live and up to date data. It is an approximation of price based not on what something sells for but what it is listed at. It gives an average and on most items one person listing those items well below market value will have little impact. Their prices will be seen as an anomaly and a few lucky players will buy those under priced items fairly quick then relist them at closer to market price.
TTC just tells you what was available and what it was listed at. The only real advantage it offers over those that don't use it is you can go directly to a trader that at least at one time had the item you were looking for. Then again the item you seek could be on a trader that hasn't been updated yet.
Yes the trader system does need some quality of life changes but it doesn't need drastic changes. It is accessible to all players that want to participate despite what people here try to tell you and it keeps the economy running very smooth. And for a lot of players it is a fun part of the game. So much so they would quit if it were removed.
Umm you do realize Tamerial Trade Center has a whole website you can just check right? It's not a great system. A lot of players would quit? Funny how people always go 'me and my friends will quit if ZOS does this' then it happens and they don't quit. It's all just a lot of hot air.
Yes I do realize that. That is why I was able to describe how it works.
Yeah a lot of players would quit. Why? Because for them the end game is trading. It is what makes the game fun. Removing the guild trade system would be like shutting down all PvP. It would cause people to quit. Some people may be arguing against a global market because they see it might cut into their profits. Most though I'm betting argue against it simply because it isn't fun.
This is the trade system we have now:
This is a global market place:
Ah the old 'you better not change it or we'll quit' threats. Same old happens all the time when ZOS does something they don't like but has that ever stopped it
[snip]
You seem to have this twisted view that people who trade as a regular part of their gameplay and like the economy guild traders create are like some sort of evil greedy human that horde all the money in the game while everyone else begs for peanuts.
I have everything in this game that i do because i worked for it. I put hours and hours into acquiring and selling items to earn that money. Ive never forced anyone to buy anything and... here is the big secret no trader wants you to know... Every.single.item. i put on the trader for sale, you can acquire yourself for a time investment of X. X could be 5 minutes or 5000 minutes .
So im offering you this olive branch. You can either save your money and acquire items yourself, or you can save your time and buy items from evil corporate...me? A piece of wisdom that will maybe help you decide. You can make more of everything in life...except time. Time is the only finite commodity, so use it wisely.Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on June 30, 2020 5:22PM7 -
Arunei✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I'd just be happy not to have to run between half a dozen Zones looking for things. Having some sort of central listing for each Zone would be nice, like someone else said it doesn't even have to show the price, just what traders are selling for that Zone. That way you still have to physically go to the trader to get whatever it is you're looking for, without also having to waste your time visiting ten other traders who don't have whatever it is you're looking for. It's not fun to spend half an hour on loading screens alone because you have to keep traveling between Zones, especially given how performance is lately.Character List [RP and PvE]:Stands-Against-Death: Argonian Magplar Healer - Crafter
Krisiel: Redguard Stamsorc DPS - Literally crazy Werewolf, no like legit insane. She nuts
Kiju Veran: Khajiit Stamblade DPS - Ex-Fighters Guild Suthay who likes to punch things, nicknamed Tinykat
Niralae Elsinal: Altmer Stamsorc DPS - Young Altmer with way too much Magicka
Sarah Lacroix: Breton Magsorc DPS - Fledgling Vampire who drinks too much water
Slondor: Nord Tankblade - TESified verson of Slenderman
Marius Vastino: Imperial <insert role here> - Sarah's apathetic sire who likes to monologue
Delthor Rellenar: Dunmer Magknight DPS - Sarah's ex who's a certified psychopath
Lirawyn Calatare: Altmer Magplar Healer - Traveling performer and bard who's 101% vanilla bean
Gondryn Beldeau: Breton Tankplar - Sarah's Mages Guild mentor and certified badass old person
Gwendolyn Jenelle: Breton Magplar Healer - Friendly healer with a coffee addiction
Soliril Larethian- Altmer Magblade DPS - Blind alchemist who uses animals to see and brews plagues in his spare time
Tevril Rallenar: Dunmer Stamcro DPS - Delthor's "special" younger brother who raises small animals as friends
Celeroth Calatare: Bosmer <insert role here> - Shapeshifting Bosmer with enough sass to fill Valenwood
PC - NA - EP - CP1000+
Avid RPer. Hit me up in-game @Ras_Lei if you're interested in getting together for some arr-pee shenanigans!1 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I guess a lot who are against this trading system have either not tried it or chose the wrong guild. Wrong in the meaning of not considering what amount of items and item value you have to sell to stay in that guild. When a major trade hub guild expects you to sell 150k per week, that means you will have to offer items for 7.8 million gold within a year - if you are playing for longer than a year and don't have stuff for 7.8 million in stock, you are just plain wrong in such a guild.
In that case you should choose one, where you can keep up with the average demand of that guild - you don't need a major trade hub guild, if you have just a couple of tens of thousands gold worth to sell per week - let's say 30k/week - this is still 1.56 million gold worth in a year - if you haven't accumulated that value in a year playing, you are as well wrong there and need a more remote guild, which might cost you nothing at all, but which matches your offer volume much better - eventually even one that has a trader just once per month - then you have a volume which matches the cost of the trader much better.Edited by Lysette on June 30, 2020 4:48AM5 -
Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I guess a lot who are against this trading system have either not tried it or chose the wrong guild. Wrong in the meaning of not considering what amount of items and item value you have to sell to stay in that guild. When a major trade hub guild expects you to sell 150k per week, that means you will have to offer items for 7.8 million gold within a year - if you are playing for longer than a year and don't have stuff for 7.8 million in stock, you are just plain wrong in such a guild.
In that case you should choose one, where you can keep up with the average demand of that guild - you don't need a major trade hub guild, if you have just a couple of tens of thousands gold worth to sell per week - let's say 30k/week - this is still 1.56 million gold worth in a year - if you haven't accumulated that value in a year playing, you are as well wrong there and need a more remote guild, which might cost you nothing at all, but which matches your offer volume much better - eventually even one that has a trader just once per month - then you have a volume which matches the cost of the trader much better.
Expanding this a bit...
I found it best to find a guild that had a trader that also was free. Then work your way up to a good balance between location, your cost, and ability to keep your slots filled. If you want in one of the big trade guilds in a prime spot you need to be selling a good amount of higher end items per week. If you dont have the time or ability to acquire such items your going to really struggle with staying in such guilds and making any money from them.
You are best off going with cheaper guilds in less ideal spots. You will make more money in the long run with less stress to meet requirements. You should always shop around for a good trade guild. I will often be in up to 4 trade guilds at a time and if one isnt doing as well as i want i drop it and try another guild. And sometimes guilds stop performing how i expect them too after a while. One guild might lose its trader and get much worse traders or no traders at all week after week. Ive had that happen many times. A few guilds changed the requirements while i was in them to requirements i didnt like, so i found new ones. If you dont put any effort in you wont get anything out of it.3 -
Hotdog_23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Short version
Most PC player don’t want/see the need to change the current system because they don’t really use the base system baked in the game. They augment it with add-ons.
Most console players want help to make it easier to buy and sell or at least research current prices.
Thoughts
People generally don’t mind paying a fair price for something. We all want a deal of course, but it we want or need something then a fair price is fine to pay. Problem on console is unless you are really into buying and selling or know someone who is then you don’t really know what certain items are selling for.
A casual or new player is completely lost when it comes to buying from a trader or selling to one for that matter. Where does the game even teach about this current system? Never remember the game teaching me a thing about buying and selling from trader.
Honestly if you are on PC and use any add-on to help with trading then your opinion is biased if you are against changing the current system because you are not using the current system as it is setup.
If you are for or against changing our current system of trading and share any opinion on it then you should also put a disclaimer in your comments whether, you use add-ons to change the default system baked into the game or not. This would help me and other judge your comments better.
Disclaimer: PS4 NA, no add-ons
Be safe and have fun 😉
PS, I find it fun people think a change would crash the current economy. Where is history did a free economy actually crash the economy.
5 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »I guess a lot who are against this trading system have either not tried it or chose the wrong guild. Wrong in the meaning of not considering what amount of items and item value you have to sell to stay in that guild. When a major trade hub guild expects you to sell 150k per week, that means you will have to offer items for 7.8 million gold within a year - if you are playing for longer than a year and don't have stuff for 7.8 million in stock, you are just plain wrong in such a guild.
In that case you should choose one, where you can keep up with the average demand of that guild - you don't need a major trade hub guild, if you have just a couple of tens of thousands gold worth to sell per week - let's say 30k/week - this is still 1.56 million gold worth in a year - if you haven't accumulated that value in a year playing, you are as well wrong there and need a more remote guild, which might cost you nothing at all, but which matches your offer volume much better - eventually even one that has a trader just once per month - then you have a volume which matches the cost of the trader much better.
Expanding this a bit...
I found it best to find a guild that had a trader that also was free. Then work your way up to a good balance between location, your cost, and ability to keep your slots filled. If you want in one of the big trade guilds in a prime spot you need to be selling a good amount of higher end items per week. If you dont have the time or ability to acquire such items your going to really struggle with staying in such guilds and making any money from them.
You are best off going with cheaper guilds in less ideal spots. You will make more money in the long run with less stress to meet requirements. You should always shop around for a good trade guild. I will often be in up to 4 trade guilds at a time and if one isnt doing as well as i want i drop it and try another guild. And sometimes guilds stop performing how i expect them too after a while. One guild might lose its trader and get much worse traders or no traders at all week after week. Ive had that happen many times. A few guilds changed the requirements while i was in them to requirements i didnt like, so i found new ones. If you dont put any effort in you wont get anything out of it.
Well said, we both are EVE players in about the same wealth category (but I'm a dwarf in ESO trading, just trading in my 3rd week) and we both know well how important it is to choose the right location or locations for a certain type of wares and those have different prices as well in different locations and they sell just well, if they fulfill a need of the local population - I like locations outside major trade hubs, but then again, I have considered before, that my casual game play will not provide me with the required volume in the long run for one of the major trade hubs - but I have enough stuff for those guilds I have chosen and as well the right kind of wares for those customers frequenting these traders - in the end it is not about a competitive price, but to offer something people need and want to get right away and go on with whatever they like to do. I tend to choose my prices based on actual sales in my locations, not on listed trade hub prices. And these actual sales I find in the guild activities UI in game - no need for an add-on in my case.
But this seems to be pretty hard to explain to people, who believe in a global trade house - especially that markets are not about prices but about people and their behavior, desires, hopes and fears. One has to put in the effort to get to know what kind of customers are in a certain location and what they are willing to spend on which kind of items.Edited by Lysette on June 30, 2020 5:57AM4 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
PS, I find it fun people think a change would crash the current economy. Where is history did a free economy actually crash the economy.
you actually believe in free economy, whilst it is a battle field with hefty market pvp in the real world - I suggest to read up on Intel/AMD, MIcrosoft/Apple and others - there is no free market, it is a market controlled by global players - free market is a term politicians use, but not what reality is like.
It would have crashed a couple of times already - but government had to bail them out, because otherwise it would have ended in disaster. Those global players are too big to let them fail - and in the end who has to pay for it - tax payers - and who doesn't pay taxes?Edited by Lysette on June 30, 2020 6:14AM1 -
Hotdog_23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
PS, I find it fun people think a change would crash the current economy. Where is history did a free economy actually crash the economy.
you actually believe in free economy, whilst it is a battle field with hefty market pvp in the real world - I suggest to read up on Intel/AMD, MIcrosoft/Apple and others - there is no free market, it is a market controlled by global players - free market is a term politicians use, but not what reality is like.
It would have crashed a couple of times already - but government had to bail them out, because otherwise it would have ended in disaster. Those global players are too big to let them fail - and in the end who has to pay for it - tax payers - and who doesn't pay taxes?
A small majority has always controlled the large majority when it comes to money.
Yes, a free market is not what we have now, and it is just a coined term, but a free more open market is better than a closed walled off market. Their will always be government policy and control measures the same way even with a global auction house would have built in control measures for ESO.
Be safe and have fun
1 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
PS, I find it fun people think a change would crash the current economy. Where is history did a free economy actually crash the economy.
you actually believe in free economy, whilst it is a battle field with hefty market pvp in the real world - I suggest to read up on Intel/AMD, MIcrosoft/Apple and others - there is no free market, it is a market controlled by global players - free market is a term politicians use, but not what reality is like.
It would have crashed a couple of times already - but government had to bail them out, because otherwise it would have ended in disaster. Those global players are too big to let them fail - and in the end who has to pay for it - tax payers - and who doesn't pay taxes?
A small majority has always controlled the large majority when it comes to money.
Yes, a free market is not what we have now, and it is just a coined term, but a free more open market is better than a closed walled off market. Their will always be government policy and control measures the same way even with a global auction house would have built in control measures for ESO.
Be safe and have fun
Please, try the guild system first - and not in a major trade hub guild - there are plenty of slots available with quite good traders, a relaxed atmosphere in the guild and lots of helpful, friendly people - that is what my 3 guilds are like and I made quite some money even with my casual game play already and I have a pretty steady additional source of income from it.
It is by far better than you think - just avoid guilds, which are for experienced traders with lots of high value wares to sell. If you jump into the shark tank, you have to be a shark among sharks, otherwise you will be prey - so choose a local guild in a medium location and you might find it a really good system - just give it an honest try.
btw - you know what is funny .- first you argue with a free economy, and now you are already asking for control measures in an auction house? - so you are yourself not certain about the free market you are advertising and afraid of it - or why do you ask for such measures?
And governments trying to control global players is even more funny - these politicians are owned by them, controlled by lobbyismus.Edited by Lysette on June 30, 2020 7:07AM3 -
Tammany✭✭✭✭Please disable TTC for all these current system defenders, they are intended to run across Tamriel checking every trader by themselves, not abusing sideparty website to get centreal info.
Implying eso trading cancer system always has rare goods.MartiniDaniels wrote: »I don't think it is direly needed. In 3k hours of playing this game, there was no single moment when I wanted AH. I remember WoW's AH, awful place, no option to buy anything cheap and rare goods are simply non-existent.
Oh wait, they are simply reuploaded for absurd prices by speculators.Edited by Tammany on June 30, 2020 7:19AM3 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Short version
Most PC player don’t want/see the need to change the current system because they don’t really use the base system baked in the game. They augment it with add-ons.
Most console players want help to make it easier to buy and sell or at least research current prices.
Thoughts
People generally don’t mind paying a fair price for something. We all want a deal of course, but it we want or need something then a fair price is fine to pay. Problem on console is unless you are really into buying and selling or know someone who is then you don’t really know what certain items are selling for.
A casual or new player is completely lost when it comes to buying from a trader or selling to one for that matter. Where does the game even teach about this current system? Never remember the game teaching me a thing about buying and selling from trader.
Honestly if you are on PC and use any add-on to help with trading then your opinion is biased if you are against changing the current system because you are not using the current system as it is setup.
If you are for or against changing our current system of trading and share any opinion on it then you should also put a disclaimer in your comments whether, you use add-ons to change the default system baked into the game or not. This would help me and other judge your comments better.
Disclaimer: PS4 NA, no add-ons
Be safe and have fun 😉
PS, I find it fun people think a change would crash the current economy. Where is history did a free economy actually crash the economy.
Real world doesn't apply. Remove the guild traders and you remove the gold sink. That causes inflation. Gold becomes worth less. With everything sitting in one location undercutting prices on common items will happen until they are at vendor prices. Rare items will increase in price.
That is a triple whammy and it would hurt the economy. Maybe even crash it.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."4 -
Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
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I dont think any of us "defenders" are against implementing some of the features of TTC and MM into the client. The trader system could use some QoL improvements but it does NOT need to be replaced with the inferior central AH system. The current system worked fine when the game was launched but ESO has changed and expanded and the trade system has only had a small update here and there. It definitely needs updating.Please disable TTC for all these current system defenders, they are intended to run across Tamriel checking every trader by themselves, not abusing sideparty website to get centreal info.
5 -
mikejezz✭✭✭✭Well, I only use the market to buy from, because selling seems impossible, and that's from someone who earned millions and millions of gold on the WoW AH and found it fun.
Even if I list stuff lower than others, no one never buys from me, probably because I'm either outbidded from others or people just don't find my stuff for sale.
I'm stealing or just vendor trashing, because it's just too much damn of a hazzle to be an AH kingpin in ESO so it just doesn't feel fun to me.
3 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Please disable TTC for all these current system defenders, they are intended to run across Tamriel checking every trader by themselves, not abusing sideparty website to get centreal info.
Implying eso trading cancer system always has rare goods.MartiniDaniels wrote: »I don't think it is direly needed. In 3k hours of playing this game, there was no single moment when I wanted AH. I remember WoW's AH, awful place, no option to buy anything cheap and rare goods are simply non-existent.
Oh wait, they are simply reuploaded for absurd prices by speculators.
hahaha, I would be absolutely for banning any trading add-ons - it would make my business so much easier. You have still this idea that we would have to run around fetching prices - no we don't or at least I don't, I rely totally on in game actual sales in the guild activities UI - and if there would be no trading add-on, I would have an advantage before the others. Especially because I could as well assume that buyers will be hesitant to collect prices and just buy what I have to offer right away - if they don't have the info, my advantage. So bring it on!
Major trade hubs would heavily overprice items, because that would be the place where most would look first - and that can be used to make higher prices viable. In the end that would lead to more people not wanting to pay these prices and they will look more often what local traders have to offer - which brings in new customers - so yes, nice idea, I really like it.Edited by Lysette on June 30, 2020 7:50AM3 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Well, I only use the market to buy from, because selling seems impossible, and that's from someone who earned millions and millions of gold on the WoW AH and found it fun.
Even if I list stuff lower than others, no one never buys from me, probably because I'm either outbidded from others or people just don't find my stuff for sale.
I'm stealing or just vendor trashing, because it's just too much damn of a hazzle to be an AH kingpin in ESO so it just doesn't feel fun to me.
or they don't want these items in this location - with this system you have to operate customer-oriented, not like in an AH.3 -
Hotdog_23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
PS, I find it fun people think a change would crash the current economy. Where is history did a free economy actually crash the economy.
you actually believe in free economy, whilst it is a battle field with hefty market pvp in the real world - I suggest to read up on Intel/AMD, MIcrosoft/Apple and others - there is no free market, it is a market controlled by global players - free market is a term politicians use, but not what reality is like.
It would have crashed a couple of times already - but government had to bail them out, because otherwise it would have ended in disaster. Those global players are too big to let them fail - and in the end who has to pay for it - tax payers - and who doesn't pay taxes?
A small majority has always controlled the large majority when it comes to money.
Yes, a free market is not what we have now, and it is just a coined term, but a free more open market is better than a closed walled off market. Their will always be government policy and control measures the same way even with a global auction house would have built in control measures for ESO.
Be safe and have fun
Please, try the guild system first - and not in a major trade hub guild - there are plenty of slots available with quite good traders, a relaxed atmosphere in the guild and lots of helpful, friendly people - that is what my 3 guilds are like and I made quite some money even with my casual game play already and I have a pretty steady additional source of income from it.
It is by far better than you think - just avoid guilds, which are for experienced traders with lots of high value wares to sell. If you jump into the shark tank, you have to be a shark among sharks, otherwise you will be prey - so choose a local guild in a medium location and you might find it a really good system - just give it an honest try.
btw - you know what is funny .- first you argue with a free economy, and now you are already asking for control measures in an auction house? - so you are yourself not certain about the free market you are advertising and afraid of it - or why do you ask for such measures?
And governments trying to control global players is even more funny - these politicians are owned by them, controlled by lobbyismus.
I am already in one major trading guild that is always in a capital city and another is stationed in either a capital city or Vivic or Alinor only each week. Being in a guild and selling is not the problem. Ease of use in the current system is the issue.
The idea of a global auction house I like is to make information more open and easier to see and use for everyone. Our current base system is lacking quite a bit. Which is why add-ons are made to improve the system. Since no add-ons are being done for consoles and we are unable to transfer and taking all our hard time, achievement and items with us. We just ask for ZOS to improve the system.
Curious what add-ons do you use to change the base system Lysette
Be safe and have fun
Edited by Hotdog_23 on June 30, 2020 8:12AM2 -
ZaroktheImmortal✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »Lapin_Logic wrote: »Lapin_Logic wrote: »First and foremost ALL MMO have one, Eq1 started without and so people were selling in a famous tunnel but a broker was added after 1-2 years.
If you wonder why we need one just watch Yale online course about free market, they
Thing with a central house is it makes it easier for market flippers to Vacuum the low cost items and mark them up.
With more small stores tou have many options to find the lowest price (add ons have less raw data and more disparate figures).
What ESO needs is More vendors, a way that multiple guilds are selectable from 1 vendor (say 10 guilds per trader), a Bid Cap on securing a vendor or a way for Every guild to sell to public (1 NPC called "The trader" that you can browse every guild that has at least 100 items for sale).
These measures would remove the current practice of only the wealthiest guilds being able to trade or guilds constantly passing the begging bowl for "Donations" or "Minimum sale requirements"
The current system enables "market flippers". game.
I mean it is easier for 1 guy with 1 billion gold to sit in a central trader, list all Tempering Alloy by lowest price and Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy.......
Than it is for a guy to check each vendor, travel zone then check all these, Yes they "Can" do it, and Have done it (one guy bought Every Tempering Alloy in a 12 Hour period, let the market panic and price gouge for a while then dumped everything for a profit.
At least disparate locations of traders gives a window where you can strike lucky on a bargain that others have missed or have not reached, but on a central trader it would be gone in a micro second.
How exactly does guild traders prevent this? Someone with all that amount of it could do the same with a guild trader and any with ttc would be able to find it there. It'd still sell up. And besides this doesn't put an argument in favor of guild traders. They could keep traders in locations but let anyone list in specific locations if that were the issue.
There are more than 200 traders in the game. A single person isn't going to be able to sit on more than three or four. TTC often is not current and even if it were one person isn't going to be able to keep tabs on all 200+ traders. Just isn't going to happen.
Oh yes because people who actually use traders totally won't use tamerial trade center and someone couldn't post a lot of stuff below normal value and people wouldn't see it at all right?
You missed the point. TTC is not live and up to date data. It is an approximation of price based not on what something sells for but what it is listed at. It gives an average and on most items one person listing those items well below market value will have little impact. Their prices will be seen as an anomaly and a few lucky players will buy those under priced items fairly quick then relist them at closer to market price.
TTC just tells you what was available and what it was listed at. The only real advantage it offers over those that don't use it is you can go directly to a trader that at least at one time had the item you were looking for. Then again the item you seek could be on a trader that hasn't been updated yet.
Yes the trader system does need some quality of life changes but it doesn't need drastic changes. It is accessible to all players that want to participate despite what people here try to tell you and it keeps the economy running very smooth. And for a lot of players it is a fun part of the game. So much so they would quit if it were removed.
Umm you do realize Tamerial Trade Center has a whole website you can just check right? It's not a great system. A lot of players would quit? Funny how people always go 'me and my friends will quit if ZOS does this' then it happens and they don't quit. It's all just a lot of hot air.
Yes I do realize that. That is why I was able to describe how it works.
Yeah a lot of players would quit. Why? Because for them the end game is trading. It is what makes the game fun. Removing the guild trade system would be like shutting down all PvP. It would cause people to quit. Some people may be arguing against a global market because they see it might cut into their profits. Most though I'm betting argue against it simply because it isn't fun.
This is the trade system we have now:
This is a global market place:
Ah the old 'you better not change it or we'll quit' threats. Same old happens all the time when ZOS does something they don't like but has that ever stopped it
This is the trade system we have now
Please explain. No one is giving anything away for free in this trading system and it does not look like anyone is asking to get anything for free.
And as I said before, Zos has nothing to fear. Players are not going to quit a game the like because of the trading system. Clearly Zos has done well keeping and growing the player base with the current trading system. We know this because Zos needed to add capacity to both PC servers last year due to the volume of player growth.
I wasn't saying anyone was giving stuff out for free more pointing it to how the trade guildies just make excuses calling others lazy for wanting an auction house.Please disable TTC for all these current system defenders, they are intended to run across Tamriel checking every trader by themselves, not abusing sideparty website to get centreal info.
Implying eso trading cancer system always has rare goods.MartiniDaniels wrote: »I don't think it is direly needed. In 3k hours of playing this game, there was no single moment when I wanted AH. I remember WoW's AH, awful place, no option to buy anything cheap and rare goods are simply non-existent.
Oh wait, they are simply reuploaded for absurd prices by speculators.
hahaha, I would be absolutely for banning any trading add-ons - it would make my business so much easier. You have still this idea that we would have to run around fetching prices - no we don't or at least I don't, I rely totally on in game actual sales in the guild activities UI - and if there would be no trading add-on, I would have an advantage before the others. Especially because I could as well assume that buyers will be hesitant to collect prices and just buy what I have to offer right away - if they don't have the info, my advantage. So bring it on!
Major trade hubs would heavily overprice items, because that would be the place where most would look first - and that can be used to make higher prices viable. In the end that would lead to more people not wanting to pay these prices and they will look more often what local traders have to offer - which brings in new customers - so yes, nice idea, I really like it.
And here we have it the real reason they don't want an auction house or any non guild trader making their "business" easier by fooling people into paying more.
4 -
Uryel✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes, a central auction house is much needed. This system is not only really lame, it's also absolutely NOT "market manipulation proof" as some claim. Many people will use addons to keep informed on prices, and clever people can easily manipulate the average by merely listing crazy prices. Most people don't even understand how an average work, anyway...
those who don't use addon will just go with the flow and buy / sell at whatever price they find. Those who do already see the prices being manipulated. A central auction house with a list of the current prices displayed, kinda like Guild Wars 2 does, would be ALOT better. And also, it wouldn't exclude players from small guilds / without guilds from actually trading at all.4 -
Easily_Lost✭✭✭✭✭
There is an addon to do this: Nirn Auction House ( https://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1768-NirnAuctionHouse.html ).Anotherone773 wrote: »
(.....) Addons would be made to list items on.(......)
Post 100 items at a time for 7 days. Costs nothing to post items. Buyers pay no fees. Seller pays COD cost.
I have been using Nirn Auction House for at least a year, and have never lost an item that I have sold.Edited by Easily_Lost on June 30, 2020 10:03AMPC - NA - AD
started April 2015
PVE & Solo only
Meet the LOST family: CP 1250+
Easily Lost Crafter - lvl 50 - Sorcerer Orc ( knows all traits and most styles )
Easily Lost-W - lvl 50 - Warden Imperial
Forever Lost - lvl 50 Sorcerer
CROWN CRATES: It doesn't affect gameplay, it's not mandatory, it's cosmetic only. If it helps to support the game and ZOS, I support it! Say YES to crown crates.4 -
Wolf_Eye✭✭✭✭✭
✭Easily_Lost wrote: »
There is an addon to do this: Nirn Auction House ( https://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1768-NirnAuctionHouse.html ).Anotherone773 wrote: »
(.....) Addons would be made to list items on.(......)
Post 100 items at a time for 7 days. Costs nothing to post items. Buyers pay no fees. Seller pays COD cost.
I have been using Nirn Auction House for at least a year, and have never lost an item that I have sold.
....Wait, PC has had an *(albeit unofficial) Auction House this entire time for the past three years?
0 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »
The BIG difference is that if I go to the local supermarket for bread and cheese I KNOW THEY SELL IT.See, you don't have a global trade system in the real world as well and guess what you don't scrap off your legs by having to walk too much and for a too long time to get what you want.
I don' t have to try out 50 other shops.
If I want furniture I go to another shop. I can even call to ask if they have stock and reserve one for me.
So I KNOW THEY SELL IT.
Otherwise I can also FIND stuff and shop and compare prices from behind my PC.
Even order stuff without moving.
Please give me that in ESO.
PS I didn't say anything about lowest prices. My big issue is being able to find anything at all (beyond the basic stuff).
Honesly I don' t care bout paying 5000 gold more or less for that staff I want or that specific Redoran couch or whatever.
*
the local supermarket is selling it because you buy locally - he wouldn't offer it, if you would do the same like in game, going for the cheapest available somewhere.
You would find offers if you would be willing to pay a decent price - traders have to utilize their slots with those things which make them good money, they cannot offer something, what you might want but which doesn't make them enough money or is hard to sell.
If you want something really specific you cannot expect to get it everywhere - and you might not find it in the market at all, because no one is offering at the time being - if you look for rare items you will have to get a little creative - and eventually even talk to people - they might be able to help you or know someone who could help you - a trading guild for example is one of the places where people actually might have this information - but who doesn't want to join a trading guild?
Well let's see people who don't want to pay dues constantly for the ability to trade maybe? People who want to use their guild slots for something other than OMG TRADER
I am in a “no dues” trading guild. All they require is that you log in at least once every week. (Or at least let them know if you are going on vacation.)
My housing guild has a trader, no dues, and I am pretty sure you don’t even have to own a house.
If my housing guild can do this, I am sure there are pvp guilds (etc) out there that you can join, have no dues, and have a trader.1 -
aenax✭✭✭Easily_Lost wrote: »
There is an addon to do this: Nirn Auction House ( https://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1768-NirnAuctionHouse.html ).Anotherone773 wrote: »
(.....) Addons would be made to list items on.(......)
Post 100 items at a time for 7 days. Costs nothing to post items. Buyers pay no fees. Seller pays COD cost.
I have been using Nirn Auction House for at least a year, and have never lost an item that I have sold.
LOL 4 or 5 sorcerers ? Of course the class is addictive0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
PS, I find it fun people think a change would crash the current economy. Where is history did a free economy actually crash the economy.
you actually believe in free economy, whilst it is a battle field with hefty market pvp in the real world - I suggest to read up on Intel/AMD, MIcrosoft/Apple and others - there is no free market, it is a market controlled by global players - free market is a term politicians use, but not what reality is like.
It would have crashed a couple of times already - but government had to bail them out, because otherwise it would have ended in disaster. Those global players are too big to let them fail - and in the end who has to pay for it - tax payers - and who doesn't pay taxes?
A small majority has always controlled the large majority when it comes to money.
Yes, a free market is not what we have now, and it is just a coined term, but a free more open market is better than a closed walled off market. Their will always be government policy and control measures the same way even with a global auction house would have built in control measures for ESO.
Be safe and have fun
Please, try the guild system first - and not in a major trade hub guild - there are plenty of slots available with quite good traders, a relaxed atmosphere in the guild and lots of helpful, friendly people - that is what my 3 guilds are like and I made quite some money even with my casual game play already and I have a pretty steady additional source of income from it.
It is by far better than you think - just avoid guilds, which are for experienced traders with lots of high value wares to sell. If you jump into the shark tank, you have to be a shark among sharks, otherwise you will be prey - so choose a local guild in a medium location and you might find it a really good system - just give it an honest try.
btw - you know what is funny .- first you argue with a free economy, and now you are already asking for control measures in an auction house? - so you are yourself not certain about the free market you are advertising and afraid of it - or why do you ask for such measures?
And governments trying to control global players is even more funny - these politicians are owned by them, controlled by lobbyismus.
I am already in one major trading guild that is always in a capital city and another is stationed in either a capital city or Vivic or Alinor only each week. Being in a guild and selling is not the problem. Ease of use in the current system is the issue.
The idea of a global auction house I like is to make information more open and easier to see and use for everyone. Our current base system is lacking quite a bit. Which is why add-ons are made to improve the system. Since no add-ons are being done for consoles and we are unable to transfer and taking all our hard time, achievement and items with us. We just ask for ZOS to improve the system.
Curious what add-ons do you use to change the base system Lysette
Be safe and have fun
None, I found about 1.5 years ago that add-ons are making my experience in ESO worse and I stripped my game from all add-ons - including mini-map, what was the worst, because it made my eyes glue to it instead to look at the landscape and navigate by landmarks instead. Then I had sky shards add-on, luckily enough I have not done a lot of those shards using this add-on, any sense of exploration was lost using it. I also got rid of any combat information which gave me numbers and even worse advice when to dodge and block and what not - this all didn't give me the feel of actually playing the game but being played by my add-ons - and when an update disabled all of my add-ons, I decided to keep it that way and not use add-ons.
This is as well why I don't use any trading tools, which aren't in the base game - and there is one in the base game, namely the activities panel of the guild UI, where I can see what was sold to whom by whom at what price and quantity - that is exactly the local information I need and this is all what I use and I'll keep it that way, I'm done with add-ons.Edited by Lysette on June 30, 2020 1:08PM3 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »Lapin_Logic wrote: »Lapin_Logic wrote: »First and foremost ALL MMO have one, Eq1 started without and so people were selling in a famous tunnel but a broker was added after 1-2 years.
If you wonder why we need one just watch Yale online course about free market, they
Thing with a central house is it makes it easier for market flippers to Vacuum the low cost items and mark them up.
With more small stores tou have many options to find the lowest price (add ons have less raw data and more disparate figures).
What ESO needs is More vendors, a way that multiple guilds are selectable from 1 vendor (say 10 guilds per trader), a Bid Cap on securing a vendor or a way for Every guild to sell to public (1 NPC called "The trader" that you can browse every guild that has at least 100 items for sale).
These measures would remove the current practice of only the wealthiest guilds being able to trade or guilds constantly passing the begging bowl for "Donations" or "Minimum sale requirements"
The current system enables "market flippers". game.
I mean it is easier for 1 guy with 1 billion gold to sit in a central trader, list all Tempering Alloy by lowest price and Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy.......
Than it is for a guy to check each vendor, travel zone then check all these, Yes they "Can" do it, and Have done it (one guy bought Every Tempering Alloy in a 12 Hour period, let the market panic and price gouge for a while then dumped everything for a profit.
At least disparate locations of traders gives a window where you can strike lucky on a bargain that others have missed or have not reached, but on a central trader it would be gone in a micro second.
How exactly does guild traders prevent this? Someone with all that amount of it could do the same with a guild trader and any with ttc would be able to find it there. It'd still sell up. And besides this doesn't put an argument in favor of guild traders. They could keep traders in locations but let anyone list in specific locations if that were the issue.
There are more than 200 traders in the game. A single person isn't going to be able to sit on more than three or four. TTC often is not current and even if it were one person isn't going to be able to keep tabs on all 200+ traders. Just isn't going to happen.
Oh yes because people who actually use traders totally won't use tamerial trade center and someone couldn't post a lot of stuff below normal value and people wouldn't see it at all right?
You missed the point. TTC is not live and up to date data. It is an approximation of price based not on what something sells for but what it is listed at. It gives an average and on most items one person listing those items well below market value will have little impact. Their prices will be seen as an anomaly and a few lucky players will buy those under priced items fairly quick then relist them at closer to market price.
TTC just tells you what was available and what it was listed at. The only real advantage it offers over those that don't use it is you can go directly to a trader that at least at one time had the item you were looking for. Then again the item you seek could be on a trader that hasn't been updated yet.
Yes the trader system does need some quality of life changes but it doesn't need drastic changes. It is accessible to all players that want to participate despite what people here try to tell you and it keeps the economy running very smooth. And for a lot of players it is a fun part of the game. So much so they would quit if it were removed.
Umm you do realize Tamerial Trade Center has a whole website you can just check right? It's not a great system. A lot of players would quit? Funny how people always go 'me and my friends will quit if ZOS does this' then it happens and they don't quit. It's all just a lot of hot air.
Yes I do realize that. That is why I was able to describe how it works.
Yeah a lot of players would quit. Why? Because for them the end game is trading. It is what makes the game fun. Removing the guild trade system would be like shutting down all PvP. It would cause people to quit. Some people may be arguing against a global market because they see it might cut into their profits. Most though I'm betting argue against it simply because it isn't fun.
This is the trade system we have now:
This is a global market place:
Ah the old 'you better not change it or we'll quit' threats. Same old happens all the time when ZOS does something they don't like but has that ever stopped it
This is the trade system we have now
Please explain. No one is giving anything away for free in this trading system and it does not look like anyone is asking to get anything for free.
And as I said before, Zos has nothing to fear. Players are not going to quit a game the like because of the trading system. Clearly Zos has done well keeping and growing the player base with the current trading system. We know this because Zos needed to add capacity to both PC servers last year due to the volume of player growth.
I wasn't saying anyone was giving stuff out for free more pointing it to how the trade guildies just make excuses calling others lazy for wanting an auction house.Please disable TTC for all these current system defenders, they are intended to run across Tamriel checking every trader by themselves, not abusing sideparty website to get centreal info.
Implying eso trading cancer system always has rare goods.MartiniDaniels wrote: »I don't think it is direly needed. In 3k hours of playing this game, there was no single moment when I wanted AH. I remember WoW's AH, awful place, no option to buy anything cheap and rare goods are simply non-existent.
Oh wait, they are simply reuploaded for absurd prices by speculators.
hahaha, I would be absolutely for banning any trading add-ons - it would make my business so much easier. You have still this idea that we would have to run around fetching prices - no we don't or at least I don't, I rely totally on in game actual sales in the guild activities UI - and if there would be no trading add-on, I would have an advantage before the others. Especially because I could as well assume that buyers will be hesitant to collect prices and just buy what I have to offer right away - if they don't have the info, my advantage. So bring it on!
Major trade hubs would heavily overprice items, because that would be the place where most would look first - and that can be used to make higher prices viable. In the end that would lead to more people not wanting to pay these prices and they will look more often what local traders have to offer - which brings in new customers - so yes, nice idea, I really like it.
And here we have it the real reason they don't want an auction house or any non guild trader making their "business" easier by fooling people into paying more.
You just don't understand economy - it is based on that there is an added value to any business activity - and this has to come from costumers. Stuff does not have a fixed price, this is an illusion, stuff has the price at which it can be sold to a certain customer group in a certain location. In a supermarket you find the same product just in different packages in the low price sector, the average price sector and a premium sector - this is to maximize the area under the demand-price graph - the integral of it would be the optimal profit - that is the area under this graph. And to get near to it, prices for the same stuff are different to get a different chunk under this graph from a different customer group with different opinions and buying behavior. But in the end it is the same product - you could call this fooling people, but that is how profits are maximized.
And sometimes it is just convenience - like I needed a few nice cups to decorate some tables in my house - I could make them myself with one of my characters - problem is, I don't know, which one of them can do it - so what I did was to just buy 20 cups fairly overpriced, but it saved me having to look which one of my characters can do that - so I bought it and made someone happy with it, even at a fairly high price. I wasn't fooled, I knew well that I pay about 3 times of what I could have done it myself, but so what, it was convenient.Edited by Lysette on June 30, 2020 1:43PM3 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »Lapin_Logic wrote: »Lapin_Logic wrote: »First and foremost ALL MMO have one, Eq1 started without and so people were selling in a famous tunnel but a broker was added after 1-2 years.
If you wonder why we need one just watch Yale online course about free market, they
Thing with a central house is it makes it easier for market flippers to Vacuum the low cost items and mark them up.
With more small stores tou have many options to find the lowest price (add ons have less raw data and more disparate figures).
What ESO needs is More vendors, a way that multiple guilds are selectable from 1 vendor (say 10 guilds per trader), a Bid Cap on securing a vendor or a way for Every guild to sell to public (1 NPC called "The trader" that you can browse every guild that has at least 100 items for sale).
These measures would remove the current practice of only the wealthiest guilds being able to trade or guilds constantly passing the begging bowl for "Donations" or "Minimum sale requirements"
The current system enables "market flippers". game.
I mean it is easier for 1 guy with 1 billion gold to sit in a central trader, list all Tempering Alloy by lowest price and Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy.......
Than it is for a guy to check each vendor, travel zone then check all these, Yes they "Can" do it, and Have done it (one guy bought Every Tempering Alloy in a 12 Hour period, let the market panic and price gouge for a while then dumped everything for a profit.
At least disparate locations of traders gives a window where you can strike lucky on a bargain that others have missed or have not reached, but on a central trader it would be gone in a micro second.
How exactly does guild traders prevent this? Someone with all that amount of it could do the same with a guild trader and any with ttc would be able to find it there. It'd still sell up. And besides this doesn't put an argument in favor of guild traders. They could keep traders in locations but let anyone list in specific locations if that were the issue.
There are more than 200 traders in the game. A single person isn't going to be able to sit on more than three or four. TTC often is not current and even if it were one person isn't going to be able to keep tabs on all 200+ traders. Just isn't going to happen.
Oh yes because people who actually use traders totally won't use tamerial trade center and someone couldn't post a lot of stuff below normal value and people wouldn't see it at all right?
You missed the point. TTC is not live and up to date data. It is an approximation of price based not on what something sells for but what it is listed at. It gives an average and on most items one person listing those items well below market value will have little impact. Their prices will be seen as an anomaly and a few lucky players will buy those under priced items fairly quick then relist them at closer to market price.
TTC just tells you what was available and what it was listed at. The only real advantage it offers over those that don't use it is you can go directly to a trader that at least at one time had the item you were looking for. Then again the item you seek could be on a trader that hasn't been updated yet.
Yes the trader system does need some quality of life changes but it doesn't need drastic changes. It is accessible to all players that want to participate despite what people here try to tell you and it keeps the economy running very smooth. And for a lot of players it is a fun part of the game. So much so they would quit if it were removed.
Umm you do realize Tamerial Trade Center has a whole website you can just check right? It's not a great system. A lot of players would quit? Funny how people always go 'me and my friends will quit if ZOS does this' then it happens and they don't quit. It's all just a lot of hot air.
Yes I do realize that. That is why I was able to describe how it works.
Yeah a lot of players would quit. Why? Because for them the end game is trading. It is what makes the game fun. Removing the guild trade system would be like shutting down all PvP. It would cause people to quit. Some people may be arguing against a global market because they see it might cut into their profits. Most though I'm betting argue against it simply because it isn't fun.
This is the trade system we have now:
This is a global market place:
Ah the old 'you better not change it or we'll quit' threats. Same old happens all the time when ZOS does something they don't like but has that ever stopped it
This is the trade system we have now
Please explain. No one is giving anything away for free in this trading system and it does not look like anyone is asking to get anything for free.
And as I said before, Zos has nothing to fear. Players are not going to quit a game the like because of the trading system. Clearly Zos has done well keeping and growing the player base with the current trading system. We know this because Zos needed to add capacity to both PC servers last year due to the volume of player growth.
I wasn't saying anyone was giving stuff out for free more pointing it to how the trade guildies just make excuses calling others lazy for wanting an auction house.Please disable TTC for all these current system defenders, they are intended to run across Tamriel checking every trader by themselves, not abusing sideparty website to get centreal info.
Implying eso trading cancer system always has rare goods.MartiniDaniels wrote: »I don't think it is direly needed. In 3k hours of playing this game, there was no single moment when I wanted AH. I remember WoW's AH, awful place, no option to buy anything cheap and rare goods are simply non-existent.
Oh wait, they are simply reuploaded for absurd prices by speculators.
hahaha, I would be absolutely for banning any trading add-ons - it would make my business so much easier. You have still this idea that we would have to run around fetching prices - no we don't or at least I don't, I rely totally on in game actual sales in the guild activities UI - and if there would be no trading add-on, I would have an advantage before the others. Especially because I could as well assume that buyers will be hesitant to collect prices and just buy what I have to offer right away - if they don't have the info, my advantage. So bring it on!
Major trade hubs would heavily overprice items, because that would be the place where most would look first - and that can be used to make higher prices viable. In the end that would lead to more people not wanting to pay these prices and they will look more often what local traders have to offer - which brings in new customers - so yes, nice idea, I really like it.
And here we have it the real reason they don't want an auction house or any non guild trader making their "business" easier by fooling people into paying more.
You just don't understand economy - it is based on that there is an added value to any business activity - and this has to come from costumers. Stuff does not have a fixed price, this is an illusion, stuff has the price at which it can be sold to a certain customer group in a certain location. In a supermarket you find the same product just in different packages in the low price sector, the average price sector and a premium sector - this is to maximize the area under the demand-price graph - the integral of it would be the optimal profit - that is the area under this graph. And to get near to it, prices for the same stuff are different to get a different chunk under this graph from a different customer group with different opinions and buying behavior. But in the end it is the same product - you could call this fooling people, but that is how profits are maximized.
I feel like most of the complaints about the current system boil down to two misunderstandings of how it works. (On top of not understanding how economies work.)
1. People think an item's price is 10K because that is the price they are willing to pay for it. They fail to take into account that there are players willing to pay 20K, 30K, 40K for that same item depending on need or location. I am in 5 guilds with traders and there is no way I would list the same item in each of those guilds for the same price. Some locations I undercut myself a bit because that is how you sell. And while 10K may actually be the price for an item, players are looking for deals, not looking to pay the actual price. So you drop that 10K item to 7K and it sells a lot quicker. Do this for 15 items priced at 7K and you are making over 100K on only half your trading slots in one guild. So even if that guild as 20K dues, you are still making a ton of profit. Which leads to my next point.
2. People think 5K, 10K, 15K or even 20K in dues is too much. If you cannot afford those prices in dues, you probably don't have anything worth selling. The 5 guilds I am in have dues of: 3K, Free, 20K, 15K, 20K. So a total of 58K in dues a week. This is nothing. I break even on Monday morning after the traders flip and I open my mail. And it is usually from selling items at like 5-10K each. If you can't afford dues, join a free trader. The free trader I am in regularly has a spot in Elden Root.
And I am on console, so no external trading aids. The current system is great because it requires learning and experience to get good at it. Just like every other fuction in the game like Trials and Dungeons. If you don't want to do that, or find you can't make enough gold to justify dues pricing, then you really don't need to participate in it.6 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »And no one uses the guild trader system anyway. They use the Tamriel Trade Centre (or others like it) - which is basically just a global auction house simulator as I said. So the game has already basically adopted a global auction house model that everyone accepts.
It's still puzzling that players think Tamriel Trade Centre is the bible when it comes to trading ... and use it to support their view that we already have an Auction House.
Don't get me wrong, the TTC add-on is great for players to review listings and help with pricing.
But, players have to temper their expectations when it comes to the website:
1. TTC listings are NOT real time. It is possible to head to a trader 5 minutes after a listing posted and not find the item.
2. Neither every player nor every trading guild participates in downloading data to the TTC client. Therefore, website listings are not all-inclusive.
3. TTC is not console friendly for Xbox and PS4 users.
Bottom Line: Any attempt to argue that TTC serves as the auction house "pro tempore" in ESO is misguided ... including the forum-goer's post above.
TTC has almost 1.5 Million downloads so far, that is an astonishing amount for a 3rd party program.. Not to mention Master merchant has over 2.5 Million downloads (who want's to go to 20 different guild traders to see the average of an item they have found.)..
The whole guild trading system is archaic, I cannot think of any other MMO that has such a terrible system apart from some Eastern P2W games where you have to sell individually.
The problem that we have is that ZOS is no longer implementing changes to already finished products such as the Guild trading systems. If you go read their most recent pinned thread in general discussions you will see the route that they are going down now (4 updates in a year, 1 every 3 months).. this is the steps taken by a game that is reducing time taken on their game and most likely prolonging the death of the game.
It is archaic, but that is intentional.
It is supposed to emulate a pre-internet world, where people had to go out and find things for themselves.
This meant that, although there were still bargains to be found, they were not instantly available via the click of a mouse.
Any sharing of bargains was via printed ads, or amongst buyers themselves (normally via word of mouth).
The advantage of this being that retailers were not at risk of losing sales, due to being undercut by a tiny amount, as they now are in a centralised system.
So, it has its pros.
The problem is, it wasn't properly thought through, here.
As, the retail system was normally more comprehensively and reliably stocked, in any large town and in real life, businesses are not (and were never) forced to try to buy their raw materials, in tiny amounts at a time, via the same broken up retail system they sold their manufactured goods in.
There were warehouses, suppliers and wholesalers for all that, which sold materials in bulk, for lower prices than the hobbyist would have to pay.
This is why I am arguing for a hybrid system, with separate traders for things like crafted goods, but a centralised (or more centralised) bulk-selling system for materials.
Not to undo the trader system entirely (even though I am not that keen on it having been tied into guilds...), but to better emulate the way things actually worked in the past and to help crafters.Edited by Tigerseye on June 30, 2020 1:54PM0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The system isn't archaic at all - it is just how the world is as well - outside of big cities. There are regional markets with regional prices and those can be higher or lower than the average in cities - reasons for both directions in pricing can be lower costs for shops outside of cities, but as well lower customer traffic - so it can be both ways and it often is - some is higher priced some is lower priced than in cities. A good mix of selling higher or lower creates a good average - if that cannot be achieved, businesses just close down and all loose by this - customers have to drive further to get what they need and the town where those traders disappear loose variety and are prone to become suburbs instead to be vibrant local communities.
And when it comes to malls - I don't know if you have really observed how high the fluctuation is in a mall - how many businesses have to close after a couple of years because intense price competition made their business no longer viable. The survivors of this are big brands, which can afford to run competitors into the ground and get them out of business - in the end what is left are big brands with the big brand prices - and the customer has to pay for it - at a higher price than he would have to - but he isn't even realizing it due to lack of competition.Edited by Lysette on June 30, 2020 2:01PM2
This discussion has been closed.