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ESO direly need a central auction house ...
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Kagukan✭✭✭✭✭
✭I agree OP. Besides performance issues, not having a real auction system that everyone can participate in without joining a guild is the biggest problem with this game. It is not fun to buy from traders and I try to avoid that part of the game at all costs.2 -
FlopsyPrince✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Noooooooooooo please.
I've tried global auction houses in WoW and SWTOR, ESOs system is way more fun and works better. A global AH in the game is the sort of thing that would make me quit, as it would take away the fun from trading for me.
No it doesn't.
It only works for those who like to corner the market on certain things.
- Finding things is a pain.
- Finding a right price to buy/sell is a pain.
- Only a maximum of 150 items can be listed at a time, limiting buying and selling choice. (That assumes you are in 5 trading guilds. Fewer if not.)
- Etc.
The reason these threads keep showing up is because it is and remains a true pain.
Those who benefit from the large amount of hidden information will always jump to its defense, but that doesn't make it good. It just makes it a benefit for a subset of players.PC
PS4/PS54 -
ItsJustHashtag✭✭✭✭FlopsyPrince wrote: »Noooooooooooo please.
I've tried global auction houses in WoW and SWTOR, ESOs system is way more fun and works better. A global AH in the game is the sort of thing that would make me quit, as it would take away the fun from trading for me.
No it doesn't.
It only works for those who like to corner the market on certain things.
- Finding things is a pain.
- Finding a right price to buy/sell is a pain.
- Only a maximum of 150 items can be listed at a time, limiting buying and selling choice. (That assumes you are in 5 trading guilds. Fewer if not.)
- Etc.
The reason these threads keep showing up is because it is and remains a true pain.
Those who benefit from the large amount of hidden information will always jump to its defense, but that doesn't make it good. It just makes it a benefit for a subset of players.
This is absolutely false. It works for anyone who is willing to put the time and effort into the market due to buying and selling. It’s hard to make gold in games with auction systems.
[snip]
[Edited to remove Inappropriate Content and Discussing Disciplinary Actions]Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on June 30, 2020 5:17PM5 -
Wolf_Eye✭✭✭✭✭
✭When I want something specific (buy or pricing for sell) I use the TTC website. I agree this or something similar could be introduced by ZOS on top of the trading system but there is no reason for this as it already exists for all players.
"it already exists for ALL players"
Uh....Do console players not count as players?
If you are alright with something like TTC existing for ALL players, including console players, then you should be 100% ok with something like TTC being implemented directly into the game so that console players can benefit too.
1 -
PizzaCat82✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I said it before the guild trader system is a economy that allows those who work hard to flourish in it. Meanwhile the auction house benefits the player who doesn’t want to put the same work and effort in.
The fact that the current system requires tons of work just to get to a normal baseline of selling in a trader does not make it a better system. (Before some of you jump on me with EZ TO JOIN A GUILD arguments, I'm of course referring to starting a guild, getting 50-500 people to join it, and bidding hundreds of thousands to millions of gold on a trading spot. That's what takes effort)
In an auction house system there will still be competition, fewer barriers to entry, and the trading game will still exist. People will still get rich.
The fact that the barriers have been removed means does not mean that the people who are making money now will no longer make money. It means that the game just got more interesting.Edited by PizzaCat82 on June 29, 2020 9:49PM3 -
Parasaurolophus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Always defended the current trading system. But lately, I see that she is not without the problems of a global auction.PC/EU2 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There is a reason why ESO still has a robust active economy with Commodities selling for prices that do not discourage farming, little to no inflation and pricing that has not raced to the bottom and no one can manipulate the market.
Agree and I think we have tried to point that out. I expect Zos sees actual numbers and if they feel the numbers are healthy for the game's economy that would likely affect their choice on the matter, not a thread.1 -
Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭FlopsyPrince wrote: »Noooooooooooo please.
I've tried global auction houses in WoW and SWTOR, ESOs system is way more fun and works better. A global AH in the game is the sort of thing that would make me quit, as it would take away the fun from trading for me.
No it doesn't.
It only works for those who like to corner the market on certain things.
- Finding things is a pain.
- Finding a right price to buy/sell is a pain.
- Only a maximum of 150 items can be listed at a time, limiting buying and selling choice. (That assumes you are in 5 trading guilds. Fewer if not.)
- Etc.
The reason these threads keep showing up is because it is and remains a true pain.
Those who benefit from the large amount of hidden information will always jump to its defense, but that doesn't make it good. It just makes it a benefit for a subset of players.
You cant corner the market in ESO
- You play on PS4, so everything in ESO is a pain since you dont get to "upgrade" from ESO lite to ESO functional( IE: Addons). This can be fixed by implementing some of the features of TTC and MM into the game client.
- Finding the right price to buy or sell is something that can be fixed by implementing some features of TTC and MM.
- I am a trader and i dont need to list 150 items at a time. If you have time to farm enough to keep 150 item slots full then you are either playing nonstop or setting prices to high causing you to have to sit on them for days at a time.
Their is no information that other people on your server have access too that you also cant get access too. If you want to play with (almost) the full functionality this game should have then you should switch to PC.2 -
Ramber✭✭✭✭NO it doesn't. what needs to happen is people need to stop using TTC. Asking price should have nothing to do with actual history people use to price items people want to sell. Its only good for finding stuff and should IMO be altered to be a finder not a 'pricer".0
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MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't think it is direly needed. In 3k hours of playing this game, there was no single moment when I wanted AH. I remember WoW's AH, awful place, no option to buy anything cheap and rare goods are simply non-existent.4 -
zergbase_ESO✭✭✭✭BrownChicken wrote: »
Always defended the current trading system. But lately, I see that she is not without the problems of a global auction.
Best site ever!!!!!! Makes buying easy.0 -
Lapin_Logic✭✭✭✭✭Lapin_Logic wrote: »Lapin_Logic wrote: »Lapin_Logic wrote: »First and foremost ALL MMO have one, Eq1 started without and so people were selling in a famous tunnel but a broker was added after 1-2 years.
If you wonder why we need one just watch Yale online course about free market, they
Thing with a central house is it makes it easier for market flippers to Vacuum the low cost items and mark them up.
With more small stores tou have many options to find the lowest price (add ons have less raw data and more disparate figures).
What ESO needs is More vendors, a way that multiple guilds are selectable from 1 vendor (say 10 guilds per trader), a Bid Cap on securing a vendor or a way for Every guild to sell to public (1 NPC called "The trader" that you can browse every guild that has at least 100 items for sale).
These measures would remove the current practice of only the wealthiest guilds being able to trade or guilds constantly passing the begging bowl for "Donations" or "Minimum sale requirements"
The current system enables "market flippers". Unless you refer to third party resources as a guide it's difficult to know what the average price for an item is. Many players (especially newer ones) end up selling their items beneath market value as a result. So players can run around and target those items then sell them back for significant profit. I know players who make their living on ESO doing this. In short: the current system is a market flipper's dream come true.
In a centralized and free market with a visible price history - the only way for a player to effectively "flip" the market to their advantage would be to monopolize the supply and then artificially raise prices. That would be difficult to pull off - especially long term - which is why I've rarely seen it done.
The only time I've ever seen central auction houses manipulated like that on a MMO was when packs of gold sellers could dominate spawn points for monsters that dropped rare items players had no other way to obtain. And that's not something I can see happening on this game.
Market flippers are not a bad thing by any means. The person who sells the item initially makes bank and the person who flips it makes bank. Market flipping is much more desirable than bot manipulation. Central ACs are very well suited for bot manipulation and the speed that they can operate is significantly more effective and efficient than any of us could come close to.
Flippers are a Cancer, you are ment to be buying an item so you can use it, not so you can make more gold to make more gold to make more gold while doing nothing, and at the expense of other players.
For example, have you ever wondered how you can buy BIS purple jewelry Cheaper than you can craft a Purple Seducer/way of the arena infused Ring?
The market has never Recoverd/Normalised from the price hikes of the systems first release so now a new player can't even craft beginner gear that isn't even that good (then they are with you in a PUG doing no damage)
searching Tamriel for deals and then post them at as higher price are not creating any problems. They are in fact performing a service.
.
That's like saying someone punching you in the face and charging you money to stop is "Providing a service", .
The analogy of a person beating someone else to a pulp makes no sense. If the game is that rough for someone they do need to find a different hobby.
It's not "That Rough" for people, Its just illustrating that someone deliberately making things more difficult for someone else is not "providing a service".
For the DPS with no gear early game, someone else buying every Green/blue/purple Briarheart band from anywhere between 200 and 60k gold, Improving it to gold and selling it for 200k is not helping, because they likely don't have 2 million gold for a fit, all it is doing is making everything unobtainable because they have no fit to farm dungeons or trials and now they even have to grind for overland stuff , same with Vacuuming all the tempers and Kuta and relisting them.
The ironic thing is these same selfish misers are usually the same people spamming zone with "Join our Helpful, New player friendly guild" that usually never talk once you join.
I could have said for an analogy someone running a marathon while you're sat on a motorbike in front waving your gold medal in their face while pouring oil and marbles in their path, it's just a "Pull the ladder up jack, I'm alright" mentality, generally referred to as Toxic behaviour.0 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Guys, you must understand one thing - in ESO there are a lot of rare goods and item sets on the market, because guilds force players to sell more and they sell everything they have, even if that is non-meta set. With guild traders gone, all you'll see will be popular goods and rare goods will be deconstructed because with such short turn-around time which AH requires there will be no chance to sell them.
I sell everything which drops if I see a good trait on item, because I know some guy may theorycraft some wild build and he might need that piece. And guess what majority of those non-meta pieces are sold, not instantly, but within 2-3-4 weeks. Now imagine AH with WoW's durations.. there will be no point to list such items.2 -
Lapin_Logic✭✭✭✭✭BrownChicken wrote: »
Always defended the current trading system. But lately, I see that she is not without the problems of a global auction.
TheUsualSuspects.Jpg0 -
aenax✭✭✭
I am speaking strictly form a BUYERS perspective.There IS a problem, otherwise there wouldn't be a TTC to solve it.
*
This TTC argument doesn't hold - because it is not even part of the trading system, but an external tool to estimate prices. So if something is wrong, it would be live information gain about market trades and TTC just shows listed prices, not actual trades. There is actually a system in game, which offers you live information about trades happening in those guild(s) you are a member of - located in the activities panel of the guild UI. This is real market data, even it is just local to your guilds, but these are actual trades, not just wishfully listed prices - and TTC can just show you those wishful listed prices, not trades.
The existence of TTC proves nothing in the context of if the market system itself is flawed or not.
Really, I couldn' t care less about what happens behind the screens of the ESO trading minigame. Sorry.
I think you can not expect players to check 200+ stores in 30 provinces to see if the item he/she wants is actually there or for sale at all.
Speaking for myself: if there wasn' t TTC I would hardly buy anything at all. I mean: have better things to do with my life than staring at all those loading screens. Not having TTC would definitely make me reconsider if I really want to continue playing the game - as not being able to buy furniture I want or sets with appropriate traits or stuff for research would really take away from my game enjoyment.
See, you don't have a global trade system in the real world as well and guess what, you don't scrap off your legs by having to walk too much and for a too long time to get what you want. Why does it work in the real world?- Because you don't have this mindset in the real world, that you have to get everything at the lowest price possible, you just buy it conveniently at the local store at the price where it is offered there - without any market tools or such required - it works in the real world so why not in a virtual world?- Well, it is the mind set which isn't compatible here - feeling entitled to the lowest offer in the market instead to just buy local - like you would in the real world - and go on with whatever you are doing in the game. It is you and your mind set what is causing the issue, not the trading system in a whole.
If you normal buyers would not just look for the cheapest available offer, there would be more diverse offers possible in local shops, because it would be viable for the trader there to make these offers - eventually not at the cheapest possible, but pretty near to it .- the reason why he isn't doing that, is because of player behavior who only want the cheapest offers where it is pretty much always available. If those were satisfied with a decent but not the cheapest offer and would buy locally - like in the real world - prices would adapt to an average and offers for pretty much everything would be available pretty much everywhere as well - just like in the real world - it would work, but the mindset of players is not like in the real world and that is causing the issue - not the trading system.
No. In our world the market is free enough and accessible enough and nobody can sell item for 100 time what they paid. Of course we may pay for convenience (milk may cost you +50% or even +100% on sunday at midnight in a small 7/7 shop. We do have discrepancies between areas and regions, everything cost 20% on the Riviera than in French britany.
Of course we have major problems with concentration, till the 80 most shops were independant now we are left with only 3 supermarket olipolies and google, amazon, facebook are de facto monopolies, intel and AMD were the only cpu producer (soon we shall get chinese ones) ...
But in a MMO we can establish a freemarket, this mean more efficency for player, more products to buy etc ...
The current system is really like the Ancient Regime in Europe.
Anyway since Tamriel Trade Center is there and since anyone willing to buy something a bit specific use it, it should be part of the game.
Note that market manipulation are massive in the current system, [snip]. Of course it is nasty (not smart), you just need to be organized rutless and efficient [snip]. Even with a massive number of players it should be possible to monitor this kind of activity and to enforce better behavior.
[snip].
[removed example that was shaming a specific group]Edited by ZOS_Ragnar on June 30, 2020 6:13PM0 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
I am speaking strictly form a BUYERS perspective.There IS a problem, otherwise there wouldn't be a TTC to solve it.
*
This TTC argument doesn't hold - because it is not even part of the trading system, but an external tool to estimate prices. So if something is wrong, it would be live information gain about market trades and TTC just shows listed prices, not actual trades. There is actually a system in game, which offers you live information about trades happening in those guild(s) you are a member of - located in the activities panel of the guild UI. This is real market data, even it is just local to your guilds, but these are actual trades, not just wishfully listed prices - and TTC can just show you those wishful listed prices, not trades.
The existence of TTC proves nothing in the context of if the market system itself is flawed or not.
Really, I couldn' t care less about what happens behind the screens of the ESO trading minigame. Sorry.
I think you can not expect players to check 200+ stores in 30 provinces to see if the item he/she wants is actually there or for sale at all.
Speaking for myself: if there wasn' t TTC I would hardly buy anything at all. I mean: have better things to do with my life than staring at all those loading screens. Not having TTC would definitely make me reconsider if I really want to continue playing the game - as not being able to buy furniture I want or sets with appropriate traits or stuff for research would really take away from my game enjoyment.
See, you don't have a global trade system in the real world as well and guess what, you don't scrap off your legs by having to walk too much and for a too long time to get what you want. Why does it work in the real world?- Because you don't have this mindset in the real world, that you have to get everything at the lowest price possible, you just buy it conveniently at the local store at the price where it is offered there - without any market tools or such required - it works in the real world so why not in a virtual world?- Well, it is the mind set which isn't compatible here - feeling entitled to the lowest offer in the market instead to just buy local - like you would in the real world - and go on with whatever you are doing in the game. It is you and your mind set what is causing the issue, not the trading system in a whole.
If you normal buyers would not just look for the cheapest available offer, there would be more diverse offers possible in local shops, because it would be viable for the trader there to make these offers - eventually not at the cheapest possible, but pretty near to it .- the reason why he isn't doing that, is because of player behavior who only want the cheapest offers where it is pretty much always available. If those were satisfied with a decent but not the cheapest offer and would buy locally - like in the real world - prices would adapt to an average and offers for pretty much everything would be available pretty much everywhere as well - just like in the real world - it would work, but the mindset of players is not like in the real world and that is causing the issue - not the trading system.
No. In our world the market is free enough and accessible enough and nobody can sell item for 100 time what they paid. Of course we may pay for convenience (milk may cost you +50% or even +100% on sunday at midnight in a small 7/7 shop. We do have discrepancies between areas and regions, everything cost 20% on the Riviera than in French britany.
Of course we have major problems with concentration, till the 80 most shops were independant now we are left with only 3 supermarket olipolies and google, amazon, facebook are de facto monopolies, intel and AMD were the only cpu producer (soon we shall get chinese ones) ...
But in a MMO we can establish a freemarket, this mean more efficency for player, more products to buy etc ...
The current system is really like the Ancient Regime in Europe.
Anyway since Tamriel Trade Center is there and since anyone willing to buy something a bit specific use it, it should be part of the game.
Note that market manipulation are massive in the current system, lately a guild bought all the mother sorrow with divine traits, ranked them in yellow and sold then back 120 000. Of course it is nasty (not smart), you just need to be organized rutless and efficient [snip]. Even with a massive number of players it should be possible to monitor this kind of activity and to enforce better behavior.
Anyway i sort of managed to catch a green mother os sorrow belt before [snip]... for a mere 5000.
I just checked, there are ton of divines mother sorrow items for laughable prices...
[edited quoted post]Edited by ZOS_Ragnar on June 30, 2020 6:15PM3 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »Guys, you must understand one thing - in ESO there are a lot of rare goods and item sets on the market, because guilds force players to sell more and they sell everything they have, even if that is non-meta set. With guild traders gone, all you'll see will be popular goods and rare goods will be deconstructed because with such short turn-around time which AH requires there will be no chance to sell them.
I sell everything which drops if I see a good trait on item, because I know some guy may theorycraft some wild build and he might need that piece. And guess what majority of those non-meta pieces are sold, not instantly, but within 2-3-4 weeks. Now imagine AH with WoW's durations.. there will be no point to list such items.
I disagree with this statement. I've been in top trading guilds and they have never dictated what we could or could not sell. Some players farmed rare motifs and sold those. Other people could easily meet requirements and still make a large profit just selling common crafting material.
Rare items cause a demand that is greater than supply. Listing a rare item in a global market will have that item go really fast. If not then you priced it way to high. There would be a problem with a central market in common items as the prices would continue to drop as people tried to unload them.
I think a global market is a bad idea but not for the reasons you listed.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."0 -
ZaroktheImmortal✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »Lapin_Logic wrote: »Lapin_Logic wrote: »First and foremost ALL MMO have one, Eq1 started without and so people were selling in a famous tunnel but a broker was added after 1-2 years.
If you wonder why we need one just watch Yale online course about free market, they
Thing with a central house is it makes it easier for market flippers to Vacuum the low cost items and mark them up.
With more small stores tou have many options to find the lowest price (add ons have less raw data and more disparate figures).
What ESO needs is More vendors, a way that multiple guilds are selectable from 1 vendor (say 10 guilds per trader), a Bid Cap on securing a vendor or a way for Every guild to sell to public (1 NPC called "The trader" that you can browse every guild that has at least 100 items for sale).
These measures would remove the current practice of only the wealthiest guilds being able to trade or guilds constantly passing the begging bowl for "Donations" or "Minimum sale requirements"
The current system enables "market flippers". game.
I mean it is easier for 1 guy with 1 billion gold to sit in a central trader, list all Tempering Alloy by lowest price and Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy.......
Than it is for a guy to check each vendor, travel zone then check all these, Yes they "Can" do it, and Have done it (one guy bought Every Tempering Alloy in a 12 Hour period, let the market panic and price gouge for a while then dumped everything for a profit.
At least disparate locations of traders gives a window where you can strike lucky on a bargain that others have missed or have not reached, but on a central trader it would be gone in a micro second.
How exactly does guild traders prevent this? Someone with all that amount of it could do the same with a guild trader and any with ttc would be able to find it there. It'd still sell up. And besides this doesn't put an argument in favor of guild traders. They could keep traders in locations but let anyone list in specific locations if that were the issue.
There are more than 200 traders in the game. A single person isn't going to be able to sit on more than three or four. TTC often is not current and even if it were one person isn't going to be able to keep tabs on all 200+ traders. Just isn't going to happen.
Oh yes because people who actually use traders totally won't use tamerial trade center and someone couldn't post a lot of stuff below normal value and people wouldn't see it at all right?
You missed the point. TTC is not live and up to date data. It is an approximation of price based not on what something sells for but what it is listed at. It gives an average and on most items one person listing those items well below market value will have little impact. Their prices will be seen as an anomaly and a few lucky players will buy those under priced items fairly quick then relist them at closer to market price.
TTC just tells you what was available and what it was listed at. The only real advantage it offers over those that don't use it is you can go directly to a trader that at least at one time had the item you were looking for. Then again the item you seek could be on a trader that hasn't been updated yet.
Yes the trader system does need some quality of life changes but it doesn't need drastic changes. It is accessible to all players that want to participate despite what people here try to tell you and it keeps the economy running very smooth. And for a lot of players it is a fun part of the game. So much so they would quit if it were removed.
Umm you do realize Tamerial Trade Center has a whole website you can just check right? It's not a great system. A lot of players would quit? Funny how people always go 'me and my friends will quit if ZOS does this' then it happens and they don't quit. It's all just a lot of hot air.1 -
ZaroktheImmortal✭✭✭✭✭
✭zergbase_ESO wrote: »Just use TTC and search the items. Them go buy it. For selling join a guild or post in zone chat. Simple really. Old style buy simple. ZoS sort of stated NO. To the auction house system. As much as I would love the auction house they simply do not want to spend money or resources on it. Like look at their servers. A reboot last time took 16 hours. Can you imagine them trying to revamp and put an AH in. The server would go down for months.
Again the 'ZOS said no to this' argument we've been through this they've done many changes in the past they said would 'never happen'. This isn't a valid argument.1 -
ZaroktheImmortal✭✭✭✭✭
✭Anotherone773 wrote: »
That's merely assumptions and opinions. The mere fact that complaints about the trading system and suggestions how to improve it pop up a few times every month should at least tell you that a lot of players don' t like the trading system.the guild trader system handled the trading of millions of gold each day.
It works well and players are not going to leave ESO because they do not like the trading system.
Better even: there mere existence of TTC and the fact that every single player I meet in the game knows it and advises it to new players should tell you that the in-game trading function isn't appropriate. Why else is there TTC at all? Why does almost everyone use it? Because the in-game trading function isn't appropriate.
Again: I am not saying a global AH is the solution - but the in-game trading function definitely doesn' t suffice.
There IS a problem, otherwise there wouldn't be a TTC to solve it.
*
Except the new post that pops up is almost always from a new player and then its always the same fanbois of a central AH that dog pile on and say " Look! See! Everyone hates this trade system!" If people hated it they wouldnt use. They would come up with their own trade system. If it was costing ZOS customers they would change it.
Cause there's so many other options for trading right? We can just set up our own auction house without a guild trader and totally re-write the code for the game? Oh wait no the only other option is to post in zones chat in hopes someone wants to buy it which some of you trade guildies also want banned cause it cuts into your profit margin.1 -
ZaroktheImmortal✭✭✭✭✭
✭
The BIG difference is that if I go to the local supermarket for bread and cheese I KNOW THEY SELL IT.See, you don't have a global trade system in the real world as well and guess what you don't scrap off your legs by having to walk too much and for a too long time to get what you want.
I don' t have to try out 50 other shops.
If I want furniture I go to another shop. I can even call to ask if they have stock and reserve one for me.
So I KNOW THEY SELL IT.
Otherwise I can also FIND stuff and shop and compare prices from behind my PC.
Even order stuff without moving.
Please give me that in ESO.
PS I didn't say anything about lowest prices. My big issue is being able to find anything at all (beyond the basic stuff).
Honesly I don' t care bout paying 5000 gold more or less for that staff I want or that specific Redoran couch or whatever.
*
the local supermarket is selling it because you buy locally - he wouldn't offer it, if you would do the same like in game, going for the cheapest available somewhere.
You would find offers if you would be willing to pay a decent price - traders have to utilize their slots with those things which make them good money, they cannot offer something, what you might want but which doesn't make them enough money or is hard to sell.
If you want something really specific you cannot expect to get it everywhere - and you might not find it in the market at all, because no one is offering at the time being - if you look for rare items you will have to get a little creative - and eventually even talk to people - they might be able to help you or know someone who could help you - a trading guild for example is one of the places where people actually might have this information - but who doesn't want to join a trading guild?
Well let's see people who don't want to pay dues constantly for the ability to trade maybe? People who want to use their guild slots for something other than OMG TRADER1 -
Pink_Pixie✭✭✭I doubt having a central auction house will damage the trade guilds so to speak. As some people are interested in selling in bulk and others are not. The bad side to the current system is, having to join a trade guild to sell items. Which of course can be an issue for some players that don't wish to join multiple guilds.
Having a central auction house, will allow people to sell on occasion if they wanted, and die hards can simply still sell just like they do. Plus, I don't fancy playing Elder Load Screen Online to buy something, due to having to travel to places. But of course this is my opinion.
And on a final note, it's a game, not work. Let us simply enjoy the fact it is a game, which a central auction house would help show.
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VoxAdActa✭✭✭✭✭Pink_Pixie wrote: »I doubt having a central auction house will damage the trade guilds so to speak. As some people are interested in selling in bulk and others are not. The bad side to the current system is, having to join a trade guild to sell items. Which of course can be an issue for some players that don't wish to join multiple guilds.
If ZOS decided tomorrow to put in a central auction house, what I expect to happen is that the COPIOUS number of farming bots will continue to push down global prices of raw mats and improvement items, competing with each other until the price is so low that it's only worth the time for people who are running automated programs to harvest for sale. The Monsanto Effect, or maybe the Wal-Mart effect; only people capable of trading in massive volume for little to no cost to themselves can even get into the market.
It already happened on WoW. I'm baffled at the huge number of people just say "Well, it totally wouldn't happen on ESO."
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ZaroktheImmortal✭✭✭✭✭
✭Pink_Pixie wrote: »I doubt having a central auction house will damage the trade guilds so to speak. As some people are interested in selling in bulk and others are not. The bad side to the current system is, having to join a trade guild to sell items. Which of course can be an issue for some players that don't wish to join multiple guilds.
If ZOS decided tomorrow to put in a central auction house, what I expect to happen is that the COPIOUS number of farming bots will continue to push down global prices of raw mats and improvement items, competing with each other until the price is so low that it's only worth the time for people who are running automated programs to harvest for sale. The Monsanto Effect, or maybe the Wal-Mart effect; only people capable of trading in massive volume for little to no cost to themselves can even get into the market.
It already happened on WoW. I'm baffled at the huge number of people just say "Well, it totally wouldn't happen on ESO."
So you're saying it's impossible for someone to have guilds filled with farming bots and people wouldn't be able to see all the stuff they're selling even with TTC? It's always the doomsayer response to why we shouldn't have it 'it'll collapse our economy' 'it'll ruin the game' 'the sky is falling'. What will happen is more people will be able to trade and do so without joining a guild end of. If the argument is that having separate locations is what keeps the economy going then why even have guilds for that? By that logic you could just have specific locations you can sell items at and will only be available to purchase there without the need for a guild.2 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
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I am speaking strictly form a BUYERS perspective.There IS a problem, otherwise there wouldn't be a TTC to solve it.
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This TTC argument doesn't hold - because it is not even part of the trading system, but an external tool to estimate prices. So if something is wrong, it would be live information gain about market trades and TTC just shows listed prices, not actual trades. There is actually a system in game, which offers you live information about trades happening in those guild(s) you are a member of - located in the activities panel of the guild UI. This is real market data, even it is just local to your guilds, but these are actual trades, not just wishfully listed prices - and TTC can just show you those wishful listed prices, not trades.
The existence of TTC proves nothing in the context of if the market system itself is flawed or not.
Really, I couldn' t care less about what happens behind the screens of the ESO trading minigame. Sorry.
I think you can not expect players to check 200+ stores in 30 provinces to see if the item he/she wants is actually there or for sale at all.
Speaking for myself: if there wasn' t TTC I would hardly buy anything at all. I mean: have better things to do with my life than staring at all those loading screens. Not having TTC would definitely make me reconsider if I really want to continue playing the game - as not being able to buy furniture I want or sets with appropriate traits or stuff for research would really take away from my game enjoyment.
See, you don't have a global trade system in the real world as well and guess what, you don't scrap off your legs by having to walk too much and for a too long time to get what you want. Why does it work in the real world?- Because you don't have this mindset in the real world, that you have to get everything at the lowest price possible, you just buy it conveniently at the local store at the price where it is offered there - without any market tools or such required - it works in the real world so why not in a virtual world?- Well, it is the mind set which isn't compatible here - feeling entitled to the lowest offer in the market instead to just buy local - like you would in the real world - and go on with whatever you are doing in the game. It is you and your mind set what is causing the issue, not the trading system in a whole.
If you normal buyers would not just look for the cheapest available offer, there would be more diverse offers possible in local shops, because it would be viable for the trader there to make these offers - eventually not at the cheapest possible, but pretty near to it .- the reason why he isn't doing that, is because of player behavior who only want the cheapest offers where it is pretty much always available. If those were satisfied with a decent but not the cheapest offer and would buy locally - like in the real world - prices would adapt to an average and offers for pretty much everything would be available pretty much everywhere as well - just like in the real world - it would work, but the mindset of players is not like in the real world and that is causing the issue - not the trading system.
No. In our world the market is free enough and accessible enough and nobody can sell item for 100 time what they paid. Of course we may pay for convenience (milk may cost you +50% or even +100% on sunday at midnight in a small 7/7 shop. We do have discrepancies between areas and regions, everything cost 20% on the Riviera than in French britany.
With jeans for example there is a relation of 1:10 to 1:20 between production costs (incl. shipping) and for what you can buy those pair of jeans. Then let's look at pharma articles, there is easily a relation of 1:100 or more (especially in the US, where the relation between canada end prices and US end prices is easily 1:10). And there are plenty of other areas, where this relation is rather steep - just the normal public doesn't expect it to be that steep.
Ah, and the absolute winner - bottled water - costs like nothing to produce it and you pay what for it?Edited by Lysette on June 30, 2020 2:43AM0 -
Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »I said it before the guild trader system is a economy that allows those who work hard to flourish in it. Meanwhile the auction house benefits the player who doesn’t want to put the same work and effort in.
The fact that the current system requires tons of work just to get to a normal baseline of selling in a trader does not make it a better system. (Before some of you jump on me with EZ TO JOIN A GUILD arguments, I'm of course referring to starting a guild, getting 50-500 people to join it, and bidding hundreds of thousands to millions of gold on a trading spot. That's what takes effort)
In an auction house system there will still be competition, fewer barriers to entry, and the trading game will still exist. People will still get rich.
The fact that the barriers have been removed means does not mean that the people who are making money now will no longer make money. It means that the game just got more interesting.
Actually as someone who does trading as...well... a trader in the mmos i play, i can assure you 100% i dont bother in games with central AH systems. It is a complete waste of time to put any effort into those AHs. Ive been there, done that.
I know you want to believe that you can make as much money off a central AH as you can off a local system, and you can, as long as that amount is near nothing. Im worth a few hundred billion in Eve and over a hundred million in ESO, 90% of that is through item trading. I could never make that much money from a central AH, no matter how much work i put into it. Ive tried many many times.
Those systems are not designed to promote a healthy player economy, they are designed to keep people from whining about having a place to sell their stuff to other players using the bare minimum of developer resources.Edited by Anotherone773 on June 30, 2020 3:19AM7 -
radiostar✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't think there will be anything close to an AH, where any level player no matter whether guilded or not can place an item for sale, will be supported by Z until they believe this game is on its last leg. So until the game appears to be doomed, it won't happen. When they finally implement an AH, it will be a last ditch effort to save the game (SOE style with MxO). Don't hold your breath on this one."Billions upon Billions of Stars"1 -
ZaroktheImmortal✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't think there will be anything close to an AH, where any level player no matter whether guilded or not can place an item for sale, will be supported by Z until they believe this game is on its last leg. So until the game appears to be doomed, it won't happen. When they finally implement an AH, it will be a last ditch effort to save the game (SOE style with MxO). Don't hold your breath on this one.
Cause they aren't known to make changes even if some don't actually like the change right?1 -
Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »Guys, you must understand one thing - in ESO there are a lot of rare goods and item sets on the market, because guilds force players to sell more and they sell everything they have, even if that is non-meta set. With guild traders gone, all you'll see will be popular goods and rare goods will be deconstructed because with such short turn-around time which AH requires there will be no chance to sell them.
I sell everything which drops if I see a good trait on item, because I know some guy may theorycraft some wild build and he might need that piece. And guess what majority of those non-meta pieces are sold, not instantly, but within 2-3-4 weeks. Now imagine AH with WoW's durations.. there will be no point to list such items.
That is something else i hated about central AH. In order to keep the ( real) resource cost to a minimum, AH uses short auction periods in which 3,5,7 days are usually the max auction time. The prices are so low that for most items if you cant sell it the first time you put it up for auction you already will get less money than just vendoring it. This leads us to only rare and ultra rare items on the AH.
I probably wouldnt put 90% of what i currently am selling up for sale on an AH because no money in it. Here i can make some money. Its not as good as a big ticket items but its enough that i will list it and make a small profit off of it.ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »
That's merely assumptions and opinions. The mere fact that complaints about the trading system and suggestions how to improve it pop up a few times every month should at least tell you that a lot of players don' t like the trading system.the guild trader system handled the trading of millions of gold each day.
It works well and players are not going to leave ESO because they do not like the trading system.
Better even: there mere existence of TTC and the fact that every single player I meet in the game knows it and advises it to new players should tell you that the in-game trading function isn't appropriate. Why else is there TTC at all? Why does almost everyone use it? Because the in-game trading function isn't appropriate.
Again: I am not saying a global AH is the solution - but the in-game trading function definitely doesn' t suffice.
There IS a problem, otherwise there wouldn't be a TTC to solve it.
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Except the new post that pops up is almost always from a new player and then its always the same fanbois of a central AH that dog pile on and say " Look! See! Everyone hates this trade system!" If people hated it they wouldnt use. They would come up with their own trade system. If it was costing ZOS customers they would change it.
Cause there's so many other options for trading right? We can just set up our own auction house without a guild trader and totally re-write the code for the game? Oh wait no the only other option is to post in zones chat in hopes someone wants to buy it which some of you trade guildies also want banned cause it cuts into your profit margin.
Let me rephrase that... If people hated it so much they would be finding work arounds and NOT using the guild traders AND complaining non stop on the forums, user reviews, reddit, etc. Zone chat would be flooded with people trying to offload items. People would create local trading spots where you just yell out your items. Addons would be made to list items on. Guilds would become a highly organized system of trading.
I could think of a dozen workarounds just off the top of my head if guild traders were so terrible. But they are not. They could use some improving but not full replacement. For example, if i ran the QOL dept( if they had one) i would make the following changes:
* Show min/avg/max price
* Current number for sale
* How many of that item have sold in the last 7 and 30 days and the average price of both.
* Global search that shows you all the items of that type currently for sale and the trader selling them but the current stock is updated every 30 minutes.
* Those random traders in the middle of nowhere would have a friend. A special trader that allows you to buy from any trader that is behind a paywall such as DLCs. Buying from these traders adds an extra 5% convenience tax.
* All thieves guild traders for an alliance would be networked. This is a special feature of the thieves guild allowing you to visit any guild trader in an outlaw refuge in say AD and shop every outlaw refuge trader in a zone that is dominated by an AD race. So you could be in the outlaw refuge in Elden Root and buy stuff off the guild trader in the outlaw refuge in Alinor without actually going to Alinor. No extra fee.
* All trader NPCs would have 4 trader slots. When you talk to the NPC you can select one of the guilds specifically to shop at or your 5th choice is to shop all of the ( up to 4) guilds using this trader. The NPC merchant area would have 4 small banners for each of the guilds crests and hovering over a banner will give the name of the guild.
* Base prices for guild trader spots are:
- Alliance capitals =1 million gold
-All other major zone cities - 500k gold
- Secondary zone cities -200k gold
- outlaw refuge and all other traders -50k gold.
* Listing fee increased to 2.5%
* Sales tax adjustable from 0 to 20% all sales tax goes to guild.
Thats a lot of QoL improving but this system has a lot of potential, ZOS is just lazy when it comes to anything that doesnt make them money directly.1 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »Lapin_Logic wrote: »Lapin_Logic wrote: »First and foremost ALL MMO have one, Eq1 started without and so people were selling in a famous tunnel but a broker was added after 1-2 years.
If you wonder why we need one just watch Yale online course about free market, they
Thing with a central house is it makes it easier for market flippers to Vacuum the low cost items and mark them up.
With more small stores tou have many options to find the lowest price (add ons have less raw data and more disparate figures).
What ESO needs is More vendors, a way that multiple guilds are selectable from 1 vendor (say 10 guilds per trader), a Bid Cap on securing a vendor or a way for Every guild to sell to public (1 NPC called "The trader" that you can browse every guild that has at least 100 items for sale).
These measures would remove the current practice of only the wealthiest guilds being able to trade or guilds constantly passing the begging bowl for "Donations" or "Minimum sale requirements"
The current system enables "market flippers". game.
I mean it is easier for 1 guy with 1 billion gold to sit in a central trader, list all Tempering Alloy by lowest price and Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy.......
Than it is for a guy to check each vendor, travel zone then check all these, Yes they "Can" do it, and Have done it (one guy bought Every Tempering Alloy in a 12 Hour period, let the market panic and price gouge for a while then dumped everything for a profit.
At least disparate locations of traders gives a window where you can strike lucky on a bargain that others have missed or have not reached, but on a central trader it would be gone in a micro second.
How exactly does guild traders prevent this? Someone with all that amount of it could do the same with a guild trader and any with ttc would be able to find it there. It'd still sell up. And besides this doesn't put an argument in favor of guild traders. They could keep traders in locations but let anyone list in specific locations if that were the issue.
There are more than 200 traders in the game. A single person isn't going to be able to sit on more than three or four. TTC often is not current and even if it were one person isn't going to be able to keep tabs on all 200+ traders. Just isn't going to happen.
Oh yes because people who actually use traders totally won't use tamerial trade center and someone couldn't post a lot of stuff below normal value and people wouldn't see it at all right?
You missed the point. TTC is not live and up to date data. It is an approximation of price based not on what something sells for but what it is listed at. It gives an average and on most items one person listing those items well below market value will have little impact. Their prices will be seen as an anomaly and a few lucky players will buy those under priced items fairly quick then relist them at closer to market price.
TTC just tells you what was available and what it was listed at. The only real advantage it offers over those that don't use it is you can go directly to a trader that at least at one time had the item you were looking for. Then again the item you seek could be on a trader that hasn't been updated yet.
Yes the trader system does need some quality of life changes but it doesn't need drastic changes. It is accessible to all players that want to participate despite what people here try to tell you and it keeps the economy running very smooth. And for a lot of players it is a fun part of the game. So much so they would quit if it were removed.
Umm you do realize Tamerial Trade Center has a whole website you can just check right? It's not a great system. A lot of players would quit? Funny how people always go 'me and my friends will quit if ZOS does this' then it happens and they don't quit. It's all just a lot of hot air.
Yes I do realize that. That is why I was able to describe how it works.
Yeah a lot of players would quit. Why? Because for them the end game is trading. It is what makes the game fun. Removing the guild trade system would be like shutting down all PvP. It would cause people to quit. Some people may be arguing against a global market because they see it might cut into their profits. Most though I'm betting argue against it simply because it isn't fun.
This is the trade system we have now:
This is a global market place:
and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."6
This discussion has been closed.