This guild trader system is so bad.

QueenAyrenn

Bids for some traders are getting close to one million. That is insane. Without a good guild trader, nobody can compete with those numbers, and it's becoming impossible to get a good guild trader.

Is there any word yet on when we'll finally get an auction house? This system is a headache, and a hassle.

Divinius

The official word is "Never"...

ZOS refuses to admit that their guild trader system isn't working.

Sallington

I like the current system so much better than a central auction house.

RavenSkylord

I have no problem with the current system. But getting a trader has gotten out of hand, they need to up the number of locations to compensate, shouldn't be to difficult to do, seems many locations were intended for more spots but abandoned for some reason, that or allow traders to carry multiple guilds, say top 3 at each. Regardless its becoming too much for new guilds to have a chance

Tandor

The present system is broken, the only ones who like it are the few high level players making a lot of money from it. Even many of its original supporters are now finding it ridiculously time-consuming, expensive, and unreliable so far as getting kiosks is concerned, while buyers are locked out of most kiosks by faction and level restrictions.

Psychobunni

I think going straight for the "gimme the AH" is the wrong tactic.

Getting the community behind some "improvements" on the other hand such as better search functions, more than one guild per trader, better bidding, etc.....would be a better way to get ZOS attention to the matter. (imo)

They don't want to an AH, fine. So let's focus on fixing the current system instead.

Bacon

It has been made pretty clear that ESO will not get an Auction House. The Devs seem to like their trade system.

as for $1,000,000 being too expensive, a guild can gave 500 member so that boils down to $2,000 gold per week per member. That is a small drop in the bucket for most players who are actively selling and a good gold sink for the game. The system definitely has room for improvement but it isn't completely broken. It might actually work out well if we had better guild management tools and the bidding process was improved/redesigned. I like the concept of the guild trader system, it just needs a little adjustment

If you are having trouble winning a trader, try a different location. If you don't have 500 members in your guild, start recruiting in the forums. I have seen quite a few guilds fill up fast. Raffles seem to generate a decent about of income if you have a good item to win

Nestor

A full Guild Trader can have 15,000 items if all 500 members put up 30 items for sale. Doubt that ever happens, so lets go 50% usage on this, so that means 7000 to 8000 items per Kiosk for most of the more active trading guilds.

It could be the database can not handle queries on huge inventories, so mutliple guilds per trader may not be workable.

But, more traders in the trading areas is workable.

If the first method of increasing the number of Guilds per kiosk does not work for performance issues, then give us more kiosks. About double would be good.

Rinmaethodain

I disagree that current trader system is bad.

It lets those who actually have something to sell use it, and prevents traders being overflowed with worthless items posted "just because i can". because thats how public auction houses would work.
Full of common overpriced items or full of worthless stuff that noone buys (lvl1-20 quest gear).

I agree that current system of trader biding is flawed. There are traders in obviously pointless locations where noone goes. This includes traders in bugged quest zones where its invisible for people who completed certain quest.

Not to mention exploit where guilds bid on trader is visible to anyone who joined guild. This allows spies to join guilds with popular merchant check how much they bid on it and in last moment outbid them by just enough to snatch the trader. A spy then leaves that guild and comes back to his home guild.

jackiemanuel

Just add more trader kiosks.

egan_ESO

It would be great if there was some way to search across multiple traders, outside of the common places I go like Coldharbour and Mournhold, so that if an item you want (such as a 1H sword with a trait besides precise or sharpened) is on some random trader, you can buy it but you have to go to that trader to pick it up.

Just some way to ensure you aren't getting ripped off too if the same item is for sale somewhere you don't think to check for one tenth the price, etc.

Sykis

I like the current system. I could agree that more locations to bid on would benefit some guilds. But the system is designed for actual trading guilds with the most revenue to compete for the best locations. It good for better economy within the game. Putting in a central store, because none of the traders auction anything it's all flat price no bid system, helps control over inflation of simple items and control over supply and demand. And those guild pay top dollar for those spots. If they are not listing things competitively they will not be able to afford being out bid. A central AH or store takes that away from people. It will allow an individual with the most money to corner several markets and put so much gold into the economy that pieces for 1 lemon will cost consumers 30 to 100 gold then currently 3-4 gold a pop.

A central community AH would let more individuals run the Money on their own but due to people always wanting to be on top it will hurt trade in the game. The current system requires a guild wise effort to turn a profit and also requires organization from the guild to make it work.

BLUF: keep the current system. Add a few more locations to bid on both in and away from the main cities. Just my opinion.

Tholian1

MaximusDargus wrote: »

I disagree that current trader system is bad.

It lets those who actually have something to sell use it, and prevents traders being overflowed with worthless items posted "just because i can". because thats how public auction houses would work.
Full of common overpriced items or full of worthless stuff that noone buys (lvl1-20 quest gear).

I don't understand this argument at all. I usually finish my daily trader runs empty handed, because they never have what I am looking for. That means I spend my valuable time with nothing to show for it. I also know how to use filters so I don't see the "worthless stuff" I am not seeking to buy.

Rinmaethodain

You dont find things you look for? ( i hope you arent looking for rare VR14 gear)
Or you find things you look for but you dont like the price?

OrangeTheCat

Sykis wrote: »

I like the current system. I could agree that more locations to bid on would benefit some guilds. But the system is designed for actual trading guilds with the most revenue to compete for the best locations. It good for better economy within the game. Putting in a central store, because none of the traders auction anything it's all flat price no bid system, helps control over inflation of simple items and control over supply and demand. And those guild pay top dollar for those spots. If they are not listing things competitively they will not be able to afford being out bid. A central AH or store takes that away from people. It will allow an individual with the most money to corner several markets and put so much gold into the economy that pieces for 1 lemon will cost consumers 30 to 100 gold then currently 3-4 gold a pop.

A central community AH would let more individuals run the Money on their own but due to people always wanting to be on top it will hurt trade in the game. The current system requires a guild to turn a profit and also requires much in the way of fuming from the guild to make it work.

BLUF: keep the current system. Add a few more locations to bid on both in and away from the main cities. Just my opinion.

Actually, the "trading guild" concept was developed by players in response to the appalling weaknesses of the ESO trade system. I was one of those people who created one of the first trading guilds - the Dominion Merchant's Guild (now defunct because I uninstalled the game at 1.6). I don't believe that the system was actually designed for "actual trading guilds"; that's just what people did to try and work around the lack of buyers/sellers (so, people joined more than one trading guild at one time). When people first introduced trading guilds there was a bit of backlash from other players.

Also, the current system does not require a guild to "turn a profit" but it would not hurt to do that. The current system encourages trade guilds to charge a fee (or a raffle) on top of whatever profit they collect to bid on traders. So it now sounds like you all are experiencing inflation in that fee. Predictable.

Tholian1

MaximusDargus wrote: »

You dont find things you look for? ( i hope you arent looking for rare VR14 gear)
Or you find things you look for but you dont like the price?

I am not up to vr14 yet, so no. I do not look for rare legendary weapons, yet. I never mentioned price at all, but I am guessing that is your biggest objection to a change to the system. You wish it to remain a sellers market. I can respect that, but I just want to be able to find the items I am searching for.

wraith808

Nestor wrote: »

A full Guild Trader can have 15,000 items if all 500 members put up 30 items for sale. Doubt that ever happens, so lets go 50% usage on this, so that means 7000 to 8000 items per Kiosk for most of the more active trading guilds.

It could be the database can not handle queries on huge inventories, so mutliple guilds per trader may not be workable.

Take a look at master merchant under load- it slows the client down to a crawl making it's calculations. I'd say that points to you being on the trail.

Tandor

Bacon wrote: »

as for $1,000,000 being too expensive, a guild can gave 500 member so that boils down to $2,000 gold per week per member. That is a small drop in the bucket for most players who are actively selling and a good gold sink for the game.

I'm afraid that simply reinforces the view that the present trading system is for high-level players only.

I'm not hooked on an AH, but I'd like a trading system that is open to everyone regardless of level, faction, and guild membership.

Matem

jackiemanuel wrote: »

Just add more trader kiosks.

that's what's wrong with the current system. too many traders already.
visiting all current traders takes over an hour or 2, excluding the refugee traders who would add 2 loading screens each.

maybe instead of adding more traders, they could position them better instead of scattering around the map or places no one goes to.

driosketch

QueenAyrenn wrote: »

Bids for some traders are getting close to one million.

Last week my two guilds picked up traders in Shornhelm both for 100g each. You guys fighting over the "Top" spots are going to price yourselves out of business.

DenMoria

Is it my imagination or do these trading guilds end up being a total time suck? It's as if I would need to keep outside spreadsheets and spend 1/2 my time doing administrative work rather than actually playing the game.

Frankly, at this point, everything is far too overpriced for me and I haven't a clue if anything I drop ever sells and, I don't have the time to be tracking it.

I just hope this doesn't end up to be another one of those "spend most of your time doing administration" things as the Pawn Hiring process turned out to be in Dragon's Dogma.

wraith808

Tandor wrote: »

Bacon wrote: »

as for $1,000,000 being too expensive, a guild can gave 500 member so that boils down to $2,000 gold per week per member. That is a small drop in the bucket for most players who are actively selling and a good gold sink for the game.

I'm afraid that simply reinforces the view that the present trading system is for high-level players only.

I'm not hooked on an AH, but I'd like a trading system that is open to everyone regardless of level, faction, and guild membership.

No, it's not for high levels only. It's for active participants only. You can't "play" the market, and be successful. You have to actually be consistent in your sales to be a member of one of those guilds.

OrangeTheCat

Matem wrote: »

jackiemanuel wrote: »

Just add more trader kiosks.

that's what's wrong with the current system. too many traders already.
visiting all current traders takes over an hour or 2, excluding the refugee traders who would add 2 loading screens each.

maybe instead of adding more traders, they could position them better instead of scattering around the map or places no one goes to.

All of these ideas (more kiosks, kiosks closer together, etc) have been discussed ad nausium before and ZOS has not so much as lifted a finger in response. They just don't seem to care probably because it satisfies the "it's good enough" principle that marks so much else in the game - it's good enough to keep people playing and attracting new purchases. I suspect the trade system was "someone's baby" and there is ego attached to the idea and that's why it won't change.

Divinius

A simple example (one of many) of why the current system is worthless:

I am trying to complete my recipe collection on my main provisioner. I am missing just a select few low-level recipes.

Last night I went to the traders in Shornhelm (where I typically park my DC character), as well as a few of the big hubs in Rawl'kha, Coldharbour, etc. I even tried Daggerfall. So 5-6 main locations visited, where I checked all of the merchants there.

Ignoring the fact that this task would have been about 50x more of a PITA if I didn't have the AwesomeGuildStore addon, it was still time-consuming to travel to all those locations and check each merchant.

After doing so, I hadn't found ANY of the recipes I needed.

Now, I know there are a LOT more Guild Traders out there than the 20+ NPCs I checked, and it's entirely possible that some or all of the recipes I need are sitting up for sale on some of those other traders. But to find them, I'd have to waste hours of my limited playtime trying to find them.

In addition, due to the nature of the guild traders, there's likely several players that have (and would love to sell me) these recipes, but who aren't fortunate enough to be in a guild with an active trader, meaning that even if I DID want to spend hours searching every trader in the game, I still wouldn't be able to find those players.

So I sit here, knowing that somewhere out there someone (or multiple someones) have these recipes I need, and would be more than happy to sell them to me, but there's no good system in the game that allows us to find each other.

And THAT is why this system fails.

Tolmos

Tandor wrote: »

Bacon wrote: »

as for $1,000,000 being too expensive, a guild can gave 500 member so that boils down to $2,000 gold per week per member. That is a small drop in the bucket for most players who are actively selling and a good gold sink for the game.

I'm afraid that simply reinforces the view that the present trading system is for high-level players only.

I'm not hooked on an AH, but I'd like a trading system that is open to everyone regardless of level, faction, and guild membership.

I have to say that I disagree with this. I am part of a large trading guild. Using my level 30 templar alt, I sell level 1 gear with various effect for deconstruction for ~300-500 gold a piece. I easily sell 20-60 of these items per week, bringing in 10,000-30,000 gold per week via that character.

Now, on to my guild: my guild then makes use of a "raffle" system to build money for the guild to use a trader. 100g per ticket, as many tickets as you can afford. That money + sales taxes go towards the rewards for the raffle and also the trader itself.

All together, it's possible for me at a lower level to make money personally (maybe not 1,000,000 gold money, but enough for my lowbie alt to have all he needs) and also for my guild to make the money necessary to keep the trader up. All without insane grinding of VR14s to keep it afloat.

NewBlacksmurf

Sallington wrote: »

I like the current system so much better than a central auction house.

I like the current system too...its different but it works
Each week....you're proud to see your money produce a Guild trader and you work to keep them up and also stocked.

Kobaal

I like the current system as well. Its definitely not as convenient as a central auction house but its more immersive for me having to go to different towns and "shopping" for a good deal.

Divinius

Notice that all the people saying "the current system is fine" are people looking to SELL their stuff.

And sure, if you are in a good trade guild that gets a high-traffic trader every week, you can pretty easily sell your stuff. The system works fine, from that point of view.

But for buyers? It's nothing but a hugely annoying, time-consuming, exercise in frustration.

Kobaal wrote: »

I like the current system as well. Its definitely not as convenient as a central auction house but its more immersive for me having to go to different towns and "shopping" for a good deal.

What you call "immersive" I call pointless and tedious.

Bacon

Tandor wrote: »

Bacon wrote: »

as for $1,000,000 being too expensive, a guild can gave 500 member so that boils down to $2,000 gold per week per member. That is a small drop in the bucket for most players who are actively selling and a good gold sink for the game.

I'm afraid that simply reinforces the view that the present trading system is for high-level players only.

I'm not hooked on an AH, but I'd like a trading system that is open to everyone regardless of level, faction, and guild membership.

I make a reasonable amount of gold trading. I'm only level 36 and only play for maybe 10 hours a week (xbox1-NA). I am in 5 seperate trade guilds and try to keep my stores full). only 2 of my guilds have a consistent trader and 2 other get one once every few weeks, Depending on how my sales go I give at least $1,000 to each guild and more to the ones where I'm actually making decent sales. I average around 20-30K in sales every week.

Anyone can play the market. I'm definitely not rich and haven't purchased all of the bank space upgrades. I also don't have any Alts. Trade guild are a great way to make money but it is a group effort to maintain a trader. 1M gold is easy for a guild with 500 members to get each week. The system works for players of all levels, you just have to use it.

Tolmos

Divinius wrote: »

Notice that all the people saying "the current system is fine" are people looking to SELL their stuff.

And sure, if you are in a good trade guild that gets a high-traffic trader every week, you can pretty easily sell your stuff. The system work fine, from that point of view.

But for buyers? It's nothing but a hugely annoying, time-consuming, exercise in frustration.

You know... just because we sell something on our guild trader doesn't mean we never buy things. Every town I hit, the first thing I do is run to all the guild traders and check their wares/prices. And those prices vary greatly because there isn't a centralized AH system, meaning that some users are putting up items for ridiculously low prices because they don't know that just down the road another trader is selling the same thing for a lot.

Honestly, as a seller and consumer I'm really happy with the current system.

The UI is awful and ZOS should feel bad for ever having made it, but the system is fine and addons make the UI usable.

Kobaal

The UI is probably the worst I have ever seen in a game. I agree, they should feel bad that it is in their game.