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ESO direly need a central auction house ...
-
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ItsJustHashtag wrote: »The system isn't archaic at all - it is just how the world is as well - outside of big cities. There are regional markets with regional prices and those can be higher or lower than the average in cities - reasons for both directions in pricing can be lower costs for shops outside of cities, but as well lower customer traffic - so it can be both ways and it often is - some is higher priced some is lower priced than in cities. A good mix of selling higher or lower creates a good average - if that cannot be achieved, businesses just close down and all loose by this - customers have to drive further to get what they need and the town where those traders disappear loose variety and are prone to become suburbs instead to be vibrant local communities.
And when it comes to malls - I don't know if you have really observed how high the fluctuation is in a mall - how many businesses have to close after a couple of years because intense price competition made their business no longer viable. The survivors of this are big brands, which can afford to run competitors into the ground and get them out of business - in the end what is left are big brands with the big brand prices - and the customer has to pay for it - at a higher price than he would have to - but he isn't even realizing it due to lack of competition.
It is archaic, as we have the internet, now.
Not that it being archaic is, necessarily, a bad thing, but it is.
The problem is that, as a trading system, it is incomplete and inaccurate, even for an archaic system.
It's missing a whole section of the supply chain.
Yes, and no - I can order a pizza via internet or phone - but I will nevertheless go to a restaurant and pay more for it. I can order clothes online, but I will nevertheless prefer a shopping spree and have a good time. And it is like that as well in ESO, I enjoy going on a shopping tour and look what people have to offer and eventually make a bargain - this is like exploration in a way, there is joy in doing that just for the purpose of doing it - and that is why people still go to malls or visit local shops in the real world, despite the internet - because it gives them joy and is entertaining and a family thing to do.
The thing with a shopping tour is, you don't have something specific in mind to buy - eventually you have nothing in mind at all, but this is what the shopping tour is for - to see what is offered and eventually take one or the other thing which you wouldn't buy otherwise. So it is a discovery tour in a way as well - which gives you new ideas about how to make your life more enjoyable - that is why people do it like that.
Yes, I know all that, but it is still an older system than the centralised internet one.
The main issue with its implementation in this game, though, is that there are no wholesalers, or warehouses, for raw materials.
Therefore, crafters are left struggling to buy materials retail.
No one seems to want to talk about that...?!
What? There are no raw materials for crafters?- I'm selling some of those from time to time, because my crafting bag is full of this stuff - the problem is more that it doesn't sell as quickly as other stuff and so I have to make a decision, block that slot with an item which is slowly selling at a lower price, or better use it for gold upgrades, which sell like hot cakes. With gold upgrades a slot makes me tens of thousands of gold in a short amount of time, whereas crafting materials are in the thousands, an order of magnitude less.
You still haven't addressed my point.
Crafters need wholesalers, especially for rarer raw materials, like furnishing mats.
Otherwise, we are forced to travel around endless stores, for one or two at a time*, most of which have sold by the time we get there.
Also, if there were wholesalers, you would have extra slots for those mats, so wouldn't have to choose which to sell.
*Due to the fact most people don't have a crafting bag!
Crafters are the whole salers in this game. This game rewards you greatly for doing writs, especially across multiple characters.
The farmers are also the whole sellers.
You’re looking at this through a microscope and thinking it’s IRL when there is mechanisms in this game to produce the products, it just has to be farmed, crafted, and completed.
No.
When I say crafters, I mean people who craft things and then sell them.
The fact that some people, who may also happen to be crafters, sell off a few excess, commonly found, mats they may happen to get and not need is totally irrelevant, here.
There are no true wholesalers in this game, because the entire system is set up in a retail fashion, with lots of separate, tiny stores.
...and this problem is exascerbated even further, via the fact that most people don't have even a basic craft bag, so end up listing things in ones and twos, in an attempt to clear their inventories.
The thing with the crafting bag is this - if people do not realize, that it is a must-have, if they want to participate in crafting and selling these items, then they are most likely as well no good in selling these things either - no investment, no good results. And this goes for crafting as well - they will have to buy from the market or create schemes, how to get the materials they need - eventually make deals with people who like to farm or something like this - being an entrepreneur, being active and creative - not just sitting there and waiting for things which might or might not happen - an entrepreneur is a doer.
There are warehouses, wholesalers and suppliers in real life, Lysette.
They exist in precisely the same traditional type of buying/selling environment ESO is trying to replicate.
"Enterpreneurs" use them all the time.
It is, therefore, not in any way unreasonable, or lazy, to expect them to exist in game, as well.
Either that, or (if you don't like that suggestion, either) just scrap it all and implement the truly lazy alternative; the global auction house for everything.
Which is not ideal for crafters, either, but is better than the current situation for most.
I am just trying to find a workable, logical, compromise, here.
Now how do I explain this - let's say you want to have an income of 300k/week from a guild - that means every slot has to make in average 10k in sales per week - if you do that with low price mats like wood for example, that you have to sell about 200x10x30 = 60.000 items - now where does that material come from to do that, let's say you could farm quickly enough to generate 1 low mat about every 10 seconds - 6 per minute - than it would take you 10.000 minutes - about 167 hours - you can't do this - an 80 hours/week investment is already near the limit of what can be done. There are no wholesalers for this stuff because it is not viable at those prices people are willing to pay for it and just not doable because it is too much work.
Yes, exactly and that is precisely why we need a centralised warehouse (or, say, anything up to 5 warehouses) for materials.
So, you can offload them without worrying about any of that.
You don't seem to understand that you are arguing for my suggestion, not against it.1 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ItsJustHashtag wrote: »The system isn't archaic at all - it is just how the world is as well - outside of big cities. There are regional markets with regional prices and those can be higher or lower than the average in cities - reasons for both directions in pricing can be lower costs for shops outside of cities, but as well lower customer traffic - so it can be both ways and it often is - some is higher priced some is lower priced than in cities. A good mix of selling higher or lower creates a good average - if that cannot be achieved, businesses just close down and all loose by this - customers have to drive further to get what they need and the town where those traders disappear loose variety and are prone to become suburbs instead to be vibrant local communities.
And when it comes to malls - I don't know if you have really observed how high the fluctuation is in a mall - how many businesses have to close after a couple of years because intense price competition made their business no longer viable. The survivors of this are big brands, which can afford to run competitors into the ground and get them out of business - in the end what is left are big brands with the big brand prices - and the customer has to pay for it - at a higher price than he would have to - but he isn't even realizing it due to lack of competition.
It is archaic, as we have the internet, now.
Not that it being archaic is, necessarily, a bad thing, but it is.
The problem is that, as a trading system, it is incomplete and inaccurate, even for an archaic system.
It's missing a whole section of the supply chain.
Yes, and no - I can order a pizza via internet or phone - but I will nevertheless go to a restaurant and pay more for it. I can order clothes online, but I will nevertheless prefer a shopping spree and have a good time. And it is like that as well in ESO, I enjoy going on a shopping tour and look what people have to offer and eventually make a bargain - this is like exploration in a way, there is joy in doing that just for the purpose of doing it - and that is why people still go to malls or visit local shops in the real world, despite the internet - because it gives them joy and is entertaining and a family thing to do.
The thing with a shopping tour is, you don't have something specific in mind to buy - eventually you have nothing in mind at all, but this is what the shopping tour is for - to see what is offered and eventually take one or the other thing which you wouldn't buy otherwise. So it is a discovery tour in a way as well - which gives you new ideas about how to make your life more enjoyable - that is why people do it like that.
Yes, I know all that, but it is still an older system than the centralised internet one.
The main issue with its implementation in this game, though, is that there are no wholesalers, or warehouses, for raw materials.
Therefore, crafters are left struggling to buy materials retail.
No one seems to want to talk about that...?!
What? There are no raw materials for crafters?- I'm selling some of those from time to time, because my crafting bag is full of this stuff - the problem is more that it doesn't sell as quickly as other stuff and so I have to make a decision, block that slot with an item which is slowly selling at a lower price, or better use it for gold upgrades, which sell like hot cakes. With gold upgrades a slot makes me tens of thousands of gold in a short amount of time, whereas crafting materials are in the thousands, an order of magnitude less.
You still haven't addressed my point.
Crafters need wholesalers, especially for rarer raw materials, like furnishing mats.
Otherwise, we are forced to travel around endless stores, for one or two at a time*, most of which have sold by the time we get there.
Also, if there were wholesalers, you would have extra slots for those mats, so wouldn't have to choose which to sell.
*Due to the fact most people don't have a crafting bag!
Crafters are the whole salers in this game. This game rewards you greatly for doing writs, especially across multiple characters.
The farmers are also the whole sellers.
You’re looking at this through a microscope and thinking it’s IRL when there is mechanisms in this game to produce the products, it just has to be farmed, crafted, and completed.
No.
When I say crafters, I mean people who craft things and then sell them.
The fact that some people, who may also happen to be crafters, sell off a few excess, commonly found, mats they may happen to get and not need is totally irrelevant, here.
There are no true wholesalers in this game, because the entire system is set up in a retail fashion, with lots of separate, tiny stores.
...and this problem is exascerbated even further, via the fact that most people don't have even a basic craft bag, so end up listing things in ones and twos, in an attempt to clear their inventories.
The thing with the crafting bag is this - if people do not realize, that it is a must-have, if they want to participate in crafting and selling these items, then they are most likely as well no good in selling these things either - no investment, no good results. And this goes for crafting as well - they will have to buy from the market or create schemes, how to get the materials they need - eventually make deals with people who like to farm or something like this - being an entrepreneur, being active and creative - not just sitting there and waiting for things which might or might not happen - an entrepreneur is a doer.
There are warehouses, wholesalers and suppliers in real life, Lysette.
They exist in precisely the same traditional type of buying/selling environment ESO is trying to replicate.
"Enterpreneurs" use them all the time.
It is, therefore, not in any way unreasonable, or lazy, to expect them to exist in game, as well.
Either that, or (if you don't like that suggestion, either) just scrap it all and implement the truly lazy alternative; the global auction house for everything.
Which is not ideal for crafters, either, but is better than the current situation for most.
I am just trying to find a workable, logical, compromise, here.
Now how do I explain this - let's say you want to have an income of 300k/week from a guild - that means every slot has to make in average 10k in sales per week - if you do that with low price mats like wood for example, that you have to sell about 200x10x30 = 60.000 items - now where does that material come from to do that, let's say you could farm quickly enough to generate 1 low mat about every 10 seconds - 6 per minute - than it would take you 10.000 minutes - about 167 hours - you can't do this - an 80 hours/week investment is already near the limit of what can be done. There are no wholesalers for this stuff because it is not viable at those prices people are willing to pay for it and just not doable because it is too much work.
Yes, exactly and that is precisely why we need a centralised warehouse (or, say, anything up to 5 warehouses) for materials.
So, you can offload them without worrying about any of that.
You don't seem to understand that you are arguing for my suggestion, not against it.
Nah, i extended my post - please read why this would not benefit normal people.4 -
amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭First and foremost ALL MMO have one,
I stopped reading at this point as this is the worst reason for anything to be added to ESO. Especially since ESO is superior to any major game on the market today. Those that actually play this game agree with that. Also, the fact the game has done well all these years without a central auction house does demonstrate it is not direly needed.
In the end, the trading system has been serving the game just fine and no one will be leaving ESO because of the trading system. So there is no real reason for Zos to abandon their preferred design.
I literally have friends who have left this game solely because of the lack of an auction house.2 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »First and foremost ALL MMO have one,
I stopped reading at this point as this is the worst reason for anything to be added to ESO. Especially since ESO is superior to any major game on the market today. Those that actually play this game agree with that. Also, the fact the game has done well all these years without a central auction house does demonstrate it is not direly needed.
In the end, the trading system has been serving the game just fine and no one will be leaving ESO because of the trading system. So there is no real reason for Zos to abandon their preferred design.
I literally have friends who have left this game solely because of the lack of an auction house.
This could well be, that is why I'm for a solution for newbies, that they can sell their stuff to a general merchant at an average market value for some time - this would solve the problem until they have experience and stuff enough to use trading guilds. It would solve the problem with their inventory as well - they could just keep the valuable stuff for later and sell off the trash they gather meanwhile.
Problem is though, if they really want to participate in trade, they will have to be subscribed - anything else is just too cumbersome. And you cannot expect ZOS to implement something what isn't encouraging ESO+.Edited by Lysette on June 30, 2020 4:51PM0 -
ItsJustHashtag✭✭✭✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »First and foremost ALL MMO have one,
I stopped reading at this point as this is the worst reason for anything to be added to ESO. Especially since ESO is superior to any major game on the market today. Those that actually play this game agree with that. Also, the fact the game has done well all these years without a central auction house does demonstrate it is not direly needed.
In the end, the trading system has been serving the game just fine and no one will be leaving ESO because of the trading system. So there is no real reason for Zos to abandon their preferred design.
I literally have friends who have left this game solely because of the lack of an auction house.
Imma say it, if your friends left the game and blamed not having an auction house then they never really wanted to be apart of this game anyway. Of all the reasons to leave ESO this is literally at the bottom of the list.10 -
Jeffrey530✭✭✭✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »First and foremost ALL MMO have one,
I stopped reading at this point as this is the worst reason for anything to be added to ESO. Especially since ESO is superior to any major game on the market today. Those that actually play this game agree with that. Also, the fact the game has done well all these years without a central auction house does demonstrate it is not direly needed.
In the end, the trading system has been serving the game just fine and no one will be leaving ESO because of the trading system. So there is no real reason for Zos to abandon their preferred design.
I literally have friends who have left this game solely because of the lack of an auction house.
At least make up a reason that's more realistic, as if your friend thought this is 'trading scrolls online' or ' auction scrolls online'.5 -
Kwik1✭✭✭✭Jeffrey530 wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »First and foremost ALL MMO have one,
I stopped reading at this point as this is the worst reason for anything to be added to ESO. Especially since ESO is superior to any major game on the market today. Those that actually play this game agree with that. Also, the fact the game has done well all these years without a central auction house does demonstrate it is not direly needed.
In the end, the trading system has been serving the game just fine and no one will be leaving ESO because of the trading system. So there is no real reason for Zos to abandon their preferred design.
I literally have friends who have left this game solely because of the lack of an auction house.
At least make up a reason that's more realistic, as if your friend thought this is 'trading scrolls online' or ' auction scrolls online'.
Well to be fair, I don't play PoE because of it's AH system. Yes they have a centralized AH but it is set up so if you buy something, you have to wait for the seller to actually approve the sale which may not happen if he/she gets lots of offers to buy, or if they leave for 2 weeks. If they get multiple offers they simply cancel the sale and redo it at a higher price.
I enjoy buying stuff but that system really ruined the game.
I love ESO, but I left a year or so ago partly because I hate the market system here since it is so seller friendly and buyer unfriendly. I get so tired of needing to run to different zones to check different vendors and deal with long load times. it isn't fun and really ruins the immersion.
I have been playing for a month and I am finding myself feeling the same frustration again and I doubt I will play more than another month or 2 because I have stuff I want to buy but I need to run to multiple zones simply to buy multiple motif's.
Someone explain to me how this is BUYER friendly when I want to buy 20 different motifs?1 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Jeffrey530 wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »First and foremost ALL MMO have one,
I stopped reading at this point as this is the worst reason for anything to be added to ESO. Especially since ESO is superior to any major game on the market today. Those that actually play this game agree with that. Also, the fact the game has done well all these years without a central auction house does demonstrate it is not direly needed.
In the end, the trading system has been serving the game just fine and no one will be leaving ESO because of the trading system. So there is no real reason for Zos to abandon their preferred design.
I literally have friends who have left this game solely because of the lack of an auction house.
At least make up a reason that's more realistic, as if your friend thought this is 'trading scrolls online' or ' auction scrolls online'.
Well to be fair, I don't play PoE because of it's AH system. Yes they have a centralized AH but it is set up so if you buy something, you have to wait for the seller to actually approve the sale which may not happen if he/she gets lots of offers to buy, or if they leave for 2 weeks. If they get multiple offers they simply cancel the sale and redo it at a higher price.
I enjoy buying stuff but that system really ruined the game.
I love ESO, but I left a year or so ago partly because I hate the market system here since it is so seller friendly and buyer unfriendly. I get so tired of needing to run to different zones to check different vendors and deal with long load times. it isn't fun and really ruins the immersion.
I have been playing for a month and I am finding myself feeling the same frustration again and I doubt I will play more than another month or 2 because I have stuff I want to buy but I need to run to multiple zones simply to buy multiple motif's.
Someone explain to me how this is BUYER friendly when I want to buy 20 different motifs?
The motifs you want to buy are actually worth enough to justify somebody else spending their time farming them.
Nobody is going to run vet dungeons for you if the motif pages are selling for 500 gold.
Now, personally, I have my price limits for how much I'm willing to pay for a motif that I'm not willing to get myself. Sometimes that means I have to wait a long time for the downward pressure on prices to get it to that price.The Moot Councillor2 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ItsJustHashtag wrote: »The system isn't archaic at all - it is just how the world is as well - outside of big cities. There are regional markets with regional prices and those can be higher or lower than the average in cities - reasons for both directions in pricing can be lower costs for shops outside of cities, but as well lower customer traffic - so it can be both ways and it often is - some is higher priced some is lower priced than in cities. A good mix of selling higher or lower creates a good average - if that cannot be achieved, businesses just close down and all loose by this - customers have to drive further to get what they need and the town where those traders disappear loose variety and are prone to become suburbs instead to be vibrant local communities.
And when it comes to malls - I don't know if you have really observed how high the fluctuation is in a mall - how many businesses have to close after a couple of years because intense price competition made their business no longer viable. The survivors of this are big brands, which can afford to run competitors into the ground and get them out of business - in the end what is left are big brands with the big brand prices - and the customer has to pay for it - at a higher price than he would have to - but he isn't even realizing it due to lack of competition.
It is archaic, as we have the internet, now.
Not that it being archaic is, necessarily, a bad thing, but it is.
The problem is that, as a trading system, it is incomplete and inaccurate, even for an archaic system.
It's missing a whole section of the supply chain.
Yes, and no - I can order a pizza via internet or phone - but I will nevertheless go to a restaurant and pay more for it. I can order clothes online, but I will nevertheless prefer a shopping spree and have a good time. And it is like that as well in ESO, I enjoy going on a shopping tour and look what people have to offer and eventually make a bargain - this is like exploration in a way, there is joy in doing that just for the purpose of doing it - and that is why people still go to malls or visit local shops in the real world, despite the internet - because it gives them joy and is entertaining and a family thing to do.
The thing with a shopping tour is, you don't have something specific in mind to buy - eventually you have nothing in mind at all, but this is what the shopping tour is for - to see what is offered and eventually take one or the other thing which you wouldn't buy otherwise. So it is a discovery tour in a way as well - which gives you new ideas about how to make your life more enjoyable - that is why people do it like that.
Yes, I know all that, but it is still an older system than the centralised internet one.
The main issue with its implementation in this game, though, is that there are no wholesalers, or warehouses, for raw materials.
Therefore, crafters are left struggling to buy materials retail.
No one seems to want to talk about that...?!
What? There are no raw materials for crafters?- I'm selling some of those from time to time, because my crafting bag is full of this stuff - the problem is more that it doesn't sell as quickly as other stuff and so I have to make a decision, block that slot with an item which is slowly selling at a lower price, or better use it for gold upgrades, which sell like hot cakes. With gold upgrades a slot makes me tens of thousands of gold in a short amount of time, whereas crafting materials are in the thousands, an order of magnitude less.
You still haven't addressed my point.
Crafters need wholesalers, especially for rarer raw materials, like furnishing mats.
Otherwise, we are forced to travel around endless stores, for one or two at a time*, most of which have sold by the time we get there.
Also, if there were wholesalers, you would have extra slots for those mats, so wouldn't have to choose which to sell.
*Due to the fact most people don't have a crafting bag!
Crafters are the whole salers in this game. This game rewards you greatly for doing writs, especially across multiple characters.
The farmers are also the whole sellers.
You’re looking at this through a microscope and thinking it’s IRL when there is mechanisms in this game to produce the products, it just has to be farmed, crafted, and completed.
No.
When I say crafters, I mean people who craft things and then sell them.
The fact that some people, who may also happen to be crafters, sell off a few excess, commonly found, mats they may happen to get and not need is totally irrelevant, here.
There are no true wholesalers in this game, because the entire system is set up in a retail fashion, with lots of separate, tiny stores.
...and this problem is exascerbated even further, via the fact that most people don't have even a basic craft bag, so end up listing things in ones and twos, in an attempt to clear their inventories.
The thing with the crafting bag is this - if people do not realize, that it is a must-have, if they want to participate in crafting and selling these items, then they are most likely as well no good in selling these things either - no investment, no good results. And this goes for crafting as well - they will have to buy from the market or create schemes, how to get the materials they need - eventually make deals with people who like to farm or something like this - being an entrepreneur, being active and creative - not just sitting there and waiting for things which might or might not happen - an entrepreneur is a doer.
There are warehouses, wholesalers and suppliers in real life, Lysette.
They exist in precisely the same traditional type of buying/selling environment ESO is trying to replicate.
"Enterpreneurs" use them all the time.
It is, therefore, not in any way unreasonable, or lazy, to expect them to exist in game, as well.
Either that, or (if you don't like that suggestion, either) just scrap it all and implement the truly lazy alternative; the global auction house for everything.
Which is not ideal for crafters, either, but is better than the current situation for most.
I am just trying to find a workable, logical, compromise, here.
Now how do I explain this - let's say you want to have an income of 300k/week from a guild - that means every slot has to make in average 10k in sales per week - if you do that with low price mats like wood for example, that you have to sell about 200x10x30 = 60.000 items - now where does that material come from to do that, let's say you could farm quickly enough to generate 1 low mat about every 10 seconds - 6 per minute - than it would take you 10.000 minutes - about 167 hours - you can't do this - an 80 hours/week investment is already near the limit of what can be done. There are no wholesalers for this stuff because it is not viable at those prices people are willing to pay for it and just not doable because it is too much work.
Yes, exactly and that is precisely why we need a centralised warehouse (or, say, anything up to 5 warehouses) for materials.
So, you can offload them without worrying about any of that.
You don't seem to understand that you are arguing for my suggestion, not against it.
Some materials already sell on average for less than vendor price, though (and that's before the tax gets taken off). How is a central warehouse going to handle that?The Moot Councillor0 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »First and foremost ALL MMO have one,
I stopped reading at this point as this is the worst reason for anything to be added to ESO. Especially since ESO is superior to any major game on the market today. Those that actually play this game agree with that. Also, the fact the game has done well all these years without a central auction house does demonstrate it is not direly needed.
In the end, the trading system has been serving the game just fine and no one will be leaving ESO because of the trading system. So there is no real reason for Zos to abandon their preferred design.
I literally have friends who have left this game solely because of the lack of an auction house.
I would consider leaving if the game ADDED an auction house.
The game basically uses free market capitalism and it works.2 -
Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Easily_Lost wrote: »
There is an addon to do this: Nirn Auction House ( https://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1768-NirnAuctionHouse.html ).Anotherone773 wrote: »
(.....) Addons would be made to list items on.(......)
Post 100 items at a time for 7 days. Costs nothing to post items. Buyers pay no fees. Seller pays COD cost.
I have been using Nirn Auction House for at least a year, and have never lost an item that I have sold.
....Wait, PC has had an *(albeit unofficial) Auction House this entire time for the past three years?
Yes that most people havent heard of or used. It doesnt even have 50k downloads. But there is the alternative for people who hate guild traders. A central AH. Knock yourself out!PizzaCat82 wrote: »I love when people come in here and leave response after response without any sort of proof. AH destroys economies? Show me the proof. All those other games with AHs are doing fine.
People who want centralized trading hubs are lazy? Sounds like you just want to keep taking advantage of the current system because it works best for you. Laziness isn't a factor but you want to act like you deserve the current system when in fact you're just the ones taking advantage of it the most currently.
We're arguing around eachother, refusing to change our minds and spouting off whatever nonsense without a shred of proof or even logic in most cases.
You guys aren't economists. You aren't the devs either.
Any games that are doing "fine" are doing so in spite of a good trading system not because of. No one plays WoW or Rift or FFXIV, or SWTOR, because they have great trading systems. They are playing them in spite of a good trading system. Whereas ive met many players in this very game that more than half of their gameplay consist of being a good trader or running a trade guild. Those are their end game. Trading in this game is an end game profession for some. Eve is so appealing to traders that it has the nickname of " Spreadsheets Online" and an in house economist that makes sure the market operates correctly. The economies in both of these games keep people logging in. There is not any other game out of it infancy with an AH that the AH is going to keep people logging in.
An AH doesnt help any game its in. It is not a draw for anyone, its not a career for anyone, its not content creating for anyone. Its a vendor for stuff you dont want and most of the stuff you put on it is a waste of time. Its put into games for the same reason that leveled zones are put into games. Its an easy formula that is "good enough" but archaic and lazy development.
Those who put in more effort should reap more rewards. This is not a hard or new concept. You want a lazy everything in one place AH dont expect to see the vast array of items you see on guild traders. You will see maybe 10% of those items and its going to be limited to very desirable sets, resources, motifs, and prints. Want a stack of flour to make you some food? To bad some nooblets kept posting 1-5 units of flour at a time until it was worth less than vendor price. So now we just keep it for ourselves and i have 4235 units of flour in my craft bag but you cant get 10 because i stopped listing on the AH a long time ago because its not worth my time, so you have to hope some nooblet that is hard up for cash and doesnt know any better posts his 6 units...but its probably just faster for you to go hunt for flour sacks yourself and grind out flour sacks for an hour so you can make a stack of food. HAVE FUN!!!. Welcome to the world of central AH.8 -
Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
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I do look at it from a buyers perspective as well. Most sellers buy off the market as well and some acquire most of their goods they sell from buying from others. I do not have problems finding items on the market for what i consider a reasonable price.I see a lot of players defending the current system, but most of them are from the sellers position.
Maybe try to look at it from the buyers position as well?
Actually just the opposite. The current system encourages people like me to farm items for people like you to buy. A central AH means i have to compete with everyone in Tamriel equally. And there are people even now that sell items for below what you can get for them for from a vendor. It literally cost them more money to sell their item than it would to just vendor it.As a buyer I would REALLY prefer to have 1 spot to look for everything. The current system basically encourages players to pay higher prices then they should for convenience so they don't have to keep checking merchants. If people can't see how this inflates prices they have blinders on.
Then you have the ones who think if you have something listed at 1000 gold that if they list theirs for 600 its going to make it sell faster than yours compared if they list it at 995. Now in the current system this actually works because that 600 gold might be a seller in Skywatch and that 1000 gold seller might be in Wayrest. But in a central AH what happens is that 600 gold undercut will sometimes get undercut before its sold to say 595, and then they might get undercut to 575, but someone buys the 575 so its back to 595, but then someone else posts 585, and then we are off peak hours and then someone logs in the next day and goes to post theirs and see that the last was posted at 585 but it hadnt sold in 6 hours( cause central AH have stupidly short timers which actually is very old school)and they are like OMG that must be way to high so im going to list mine at 450 gold! So on and so forth.
You can actually watch this actual scenario take place in Jita 4-4 in Eve. Its not near as bad now as it use to be because they put stops in place with trading fees that discourage penny wars. But you can look at how items are listed in that trade hub and see that some people undercut others not by a little but by 10% plus. Now in Eve if i buy something for x price at this station that i am in it will always sell me the lowest price item in this station. So selling 10% cheaper actually only costs everyone money and doesnt get the person doing it anywhere.
You know you can use TTC to find where items are right? You dont need to visit a bunch of zones on PC. But if you always go for the lowest price item or an item that is the old and decently priced your going to spend time going from trader to trader. But if you learn how to find a balance between good price and age of listing, you can usually find a decent deal on your first or second trader.A single market spot would help the BUYER huge. Currently, even with a good computer, my load times can become atrocious, so I tend to overpay for something just because I don't want to waste time hitting other zones. If I had 1 spot where it showed all merchants I could see all prices and buy from vendors who are selling for a FAIR price and not overcharging because it happens to be a convenient vendor.
Most sellers are ok with a global search function, just not a global Amazon like buy function.
Not true at all, its actually only worse for a LAZY buyer. If you put some effort into your shopping this system actually can net you some great deals. In fact these deals are so good that people actually buy from sellers and then relist the item elsewhere for a profit. With a central AH, the price just gets drove into the ground until sellers stop using the AH and then only market manipulators and newbies use the system.As a seller, the current system is better, but for a buyer it is certainly worse.
See above this quote box^^^ for that argument.Would really like to see an argument saying it is better for the buyer to have to travel to multiple zones to find something for a fair price.
You dont MMO much do you? Using external resources in an MMO is not only standard but almost a necessity outside of very casual gameplay. I cant think of any MMOs i have played in the last 10 years in which i did not need to consult outside sources regularly with the exception of mobile games which are really just money pits with ok graphics.I was looking for a celestial staves motif last night. The vendors that were conveniently close had a few but they also had them for sale at 3 times the TTC price. I finally went to TTC's website and found a vendor that had it at a fair price and I went and got it. I shouldn't have to go to an outside website to find a fair price on something in the game =(.6 -
amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭If we are talking about MMO economies, I still have to go back to the staple for me which was Star Wars Galaxies (which - coincidentally enough - offers a much closer online Elder Scrolls experience than Elder Scrolls Online does)
There was a central auction house for people to sell low dollar stock. If you wanted to sell big dollar stock, you would have to level up your mercantile skills and build your own business - find an actual physical location to build your physical shop, pull up your vendors, there were maintenance fees for your house and your vendors to keep them up and active.
Low level people could sell items, or merchants could sell cheaper surplus goods on the centralized market.
Full time traders and merchants could start up their own business and open their own vendors.
None of it was tied to being in a guild - though being in a guild could still offer many benefits to your business.
This whole "tying trading to a guild" design concept is bunk. It screws over literally anyone who doesn't want to be a full time trader. The only way to actually sell anything is to join a trading guild, but joining a trading guild is not really viable for anyone who isn't devoting their time to crafting to keep a full inventory up and running to pay the guild dues for. So instead of being able to make a little bit of extra cash with some excess loot tossed up on a vendor, we instead have to waste it by decon'ing it for more mats that we don't really need anyways because we aren't full time crafting.2 -
Stanx✭✭✭✭✭
✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »First and foremost ALL MMO have one,
I stopped reading at this point as this is the worst reason for anything to be added to ESO. Especially since ESO is superior to any major game on the market today. Those that actually play this game agree with that. Also, the fact the game has done well all these years without a central auction house does demonstrate it is not direly needed.
In the end, the trading system has been serving the game just fine and no one will be leaving ESO because of the trading system. So there is no real reason for Zos to abandon their preferred design.
I literally have friends who have left this game solely because of the lack of an auction house.
I would consider leaving if the game ADDED an auction house.
The game basically uses free market capitalism and it works.
[Quoted post was removed]
You don't need to play on a crafting character to join a trade guild. You just need loot to sell and to pay the dues they ask for (if they ask for them). I'm in three guilds xbox EU that charge no dues and usually have a Mournhold / Elden Root trader. If you're on that server I'll invite you to them.Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on July 5, 2020 10:46AM4 -
Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
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You are not going to get both a good deal and convenient shopping. But putting a little thought into your shopping trip will save you a good deal of time.Jeffrey530 wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »First and foremost ALL MMO have one,
I stopped reading at this point as this is the worst reason for anything to be added to ESO. Especially since ESO is superior to any major game on the market today. Those that actually play this game agree with that. Also, the fact the game has done well all these years without a central auction house does demonstrate it is not direly needed.
In the end, the trading system has been serving the game just fine and no one will be leaving ESO because of the trading system. So there is no real reason for Zos to abandon their preferred design.
I literally have friends who have left this game solely because of the lack of an auction house.
At least make up a reason that's more realistic, as if your friend thought this is 'trading scrolls online' or ' auction scrolls online'.
Well to be fair, I don't play PoE because of it's AH system. Yes they have a centralized AH but it is set up so if you buy something, you have to wait for the seller to actually approve the sale which may not happen if he/she gets lots of offers to buy, or if they leave for 2 weeks. If they get multiple offers they simply cancel the sale and redo it at a higher price.
I enjoy buying stuff but that system really ruined the game.
I love ESO, but I left a year or so ago partly because I hate the market system here since it is so seller friendly and buyer unfriendly. I get so tired of needing to run to different zones to check different vendors and deal with long load times. it isn't fun and really ruins the immersion.
I have been playing for a month and I am finding myself feeling the same frustration again and I doubt I will play more than another month or 2 because I have stuff I want to buy but I need to run to multiple zones simply to buy multiple motif's.
Someone explain to me how this is BUYER friendly when I want to buy 20 different motifs?
1) Determine what you are willing to pay for an item. For motifs expect to pay more for chest and legs and less for less noticeable items. It helps to make a list and the max acceptable price per unit you willing to pay for that item.
2) Port to major trade hub such as Mournhold.
3) Open a guild trader and type "Motif XX" into the search box. Hit R.
4) Browse the results if any. Purchase if you like any deals
5) Move to the next trader and repeat.
6) Move to the next trade hub and repeat.
7) Continue this process checking each item off your list as you buy it.
8) Stop when list is completed OR when you get down to 1 or 2 items use TTC to find acceptable( not the best) deals)
9) Enjoy!
It also helps to have a decent machine with a decent CPU, memory, and a M.2 SSD is really great. For example, it took me 24 seconds to load into the game from character screen after login. I loaded into Rimmen. I then changed one of my 20 addons and i /reloadui in 11 seconds. I then ported from Rimmen to Elden Root and that took me just shy of 19 seconds. On my older PC that would have been 3-5 minutes depending on how ambitious it was feeling today. Oh and protip: the more addons you have the longer it takes to load into new areas. So if you have a good amount of addons but dont use some very much, might want to weigh if they are worth adding seconds to each load screen. The more low end the PC the bigger the impact addons have to performance.
Its buyer friendly because you can buy those motifs. especially if they are farmed motifs like Assassins or Dwemer or any of the daily reward motifs. I farm motifs because its worth my time. If i have to deal with constant undercutting on an AH, its no longer worth my time to farm motifs especially given the short auction time of AHs means rock bottom prices are encouraged to hurry up and try to get a sale in the next 24 hours so you dont eat it on your listing fee.
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Calling it a lie does not make it a lie. I seriously doubt many players, if any, have actually quit due to the choice of the trading system. Zos has no reason to worry as the player base has been consistently growing. Steam indicates this as well as Zos' need to increase server capacity for both PC servers last year due to the growth of the player base.
Seems to not be an issue by any means.4 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »First and foremost ALL MMO have one,
I stopped reading at this point as this is the worst reason for anything to be added to ESO. Especially since ESO is superior to any major game on the market today. Those that actually play this game agree with that. Also, the fact the game has done well all these years without a central auction house does demonstrate it is not direly needed.
In the end, the trading system has been serving the game just fine and no one will be leaving ESO because of the trading system. So there is no real reason for Zos to abandon their preferred design.
I literally have friends who have left this game solely because of the lack of an auction house.
Likely there was something else in play. I choose to play a game because I enjoy playing the game and have fun people to enjoy it with. It is more likely they were just not into the game very much. Regardless, it is clearly not an issue for Zos as most seem to stick with the game as the population has been growing steadily for several years. So it is not an issue Zos needs to be worried about.5 -
Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
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Why do you need to have a job as an in game crafter to sell stuff in a trader? Literally two different subjects. That is like saying that you need to grind battlegrounds so you can run trials. I only craft my own stuff and almost all of that is furniture . Ive never had to craft to be in a guild to sell my stuff. In fact almost every trade guild i have been in has been very hands off. Some you can go 2 or 3 weeks or more and not even list an item and these are guilds in one of the top 10 trade hubs, not that guy out at First Watch in the north end of Auridon.amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »First and foremost ALL MMO have one,
I stopped reading at this point as this is the worst reason for anything to be added to ESO. Especially since ESO is superior to any major game on the market today. Those that actually play this game agree with that. Also, the fact the game has done well all these years without a central auction house does demonstrate it is not direly needed.
In the end, the trading system has been serving the game just fine and no one will be leaving ESO because of the trading system. So there is no real reason for Zos to abandon their preferred design.
I literally have friends who have left this game solely because of the lack of an auction house.
I would consider leaving if the game ADDED an auction house.
The game basically uses free market capitalism and it works.
[Quoted post was removed]
I feel like a lot of people dont bother to learn how this system works but just want to criticize it because its not a lazy AH they dont have to put any more effort into than vendoring an item.
You really have put zero effort into the whole trade guild concept and decided based on either very limited experience or hearsay from people who have no clue what they are talking about.amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »
This whole "tying trading to a guild" design concept is bunk. It screws over literally anyone who doesn't want to be a full time trader. The only way to actually sell anything is to join a trading guild, but joining a trading guild is not really viable for anyone who isn't devoting their time to crafting to keep a full inventory up and running to pay the guild dues for. So instead of being able to make a little bit of extra cash with some excess loot tossed up on a vendor, we instead have to waste it by decon'ing it for more mats that we don't really need anyways because we aren't full time crafting.
There are some weeks when i am to busy to play that i dont list 10 items between all of my trade guilds. I sell recipes and prints in some guilds that sell for 3 times the vendor price. Go look up what 3 times the vendor price is on " Recipe: Roast Pig" and "Pattern: Khajiit Banner, Claw". Not a lot of profit off these things especially when i am selling "Blueprint: Solitude Desk, Ornate" for 6 figures but i still use them as filler and they do sell.
If you do a bit of work and not looking for a top spot its pretty easy to find a guild to sell stuff in that has no requirements. Then if you want to expand your horizons there are guilds that have low requirements, medium requirements, and high requirements. The high requirement guilds are just fleecing you though. You can find low and medium requirement guilds in any trade hub and most will have a no requirement guild that operates off people who like to play raffles and those who sell a lot of big ticket items.
I think if you actually tried a bit to get in a trade guild, you would not have such a problem with it.
Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on July 5, 2020 10:43AM6 -
PizzaCat82✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »
Why do you need to have a job as an in game crafter to sell stuff in a trader? Literally two different subjects. That is like saying that you need to grind battlegrounds so you can run trials. I only craft my own stuff and almost all of that is furniture . Ive never had to craft to be in a guild to sell my stuff. In fact almost every trade guild i have been in has been very hands off. Some you can go 2 or 3 weeks or more and not even list an item and these are guilds in one of the top 10 trade hubs, not that guy out at First Watch in the north end of Auridon.amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »First and foremost ALL MMO have one,
I stopped reading at this point as this is the worst reason for anything to be added to ESO. Especially since ESO is superior to any major game on the market today. Those that actually play this game agree with that. Also, the fact the game has done well all these years without a central auction house does demonstrate it is not direly needed.
In the end, the trading system has been serving the game just fine and no one will be leaving ESO because of the trading system. So there is no real reason for Zos to abandon their preferred design.
I literally have friends who have left this game solely because of the lack of an auction house.
I would consider leaving if the game ADDED an auction house.
The game basically uses free market capitalism and it works.
And I wouldnt miss you if you left.
Because of your aversion to an auction house, I can't sell my gear I loot without joining a trade guild - which I have no desire to do because I dont care to take on another job as an in game crafter - but I would like to not just have my loot go to waste and I would like to be able to generate some in game income.
But I can't do that because you can't figure out how to run an in game business with an auction house.
I feel like a lot of people dont bother to learn how this system works but just want to criticize it because its not a lazy AH they dont have to put any more effort into than vendoring an item.
You really have put zero effort into the whole trade guild concept and decided based on either very limited experience or hearsay from people who have no clue what they are talking about.amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »
This whole "tying trading to a guild" design concept is bunk. It screws over literally anyone who doesn't want to be a full time trader. The only way to actually sell anything is to join a trading guild, but joining a trading guild is not really viable for anyone who isn't devoting their time to crafting to keep a full inventory up and running to pay the guild dues for. So instead of being able to make a little bit of extra cash with some excess loot tossed up on a vendor, we instead have to waste it by decon'ing it for more mats that we don't really need anyways because we aren't full time crafting.
There are some weeks when i am to busy to play that i dont list 10 items between all of my trade guilds. I sell recipes and prints in some guilds that sell for 3 times the vendor price. Go look up what 3 times the vendor price is on " Recipe: Roast Pig" and "Pattern: Khajiit Banner, Claw". Not a lot of profit off these things especially when i am selling "Blueprint: Solitude Desk, Ornate" for 6 figures but i still use them as filler and they do sell.
If you do a bit of work and not looking for a top spot its pretty easy to find a guild to sell stuff in that has no requirements. Then if you want to expand your horizons there are guilds that have low requirements, medium requirements, and high requirements. The high requirement guilds are just fleecing you though. You can find low and medium requirement guilds in any trade hub and most will have a no requirement guild that operates off people who like to play raffles and those who sell a lot of big ticket items.
I think if you actually tried a bit to get in a trade guild, you would not have such a problem with it.
I'm in some of the biggest. Not everyone is on PC. Not everyone likes the current requirements. We join because we must. We deal with it because we must.
You can be against something but realize the only way to play is to use it.1 -
amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Anotherone773 wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »First and foremost ALL MMO have one,
I stopped reading at this point as this is the worst reason for anything to be added to ESO. Especially since ESO is superior to any major game on the market today. Those that actually play this game agree with that. Also, the fact the game has done well all these years without a central auction house does demonstrate it is not direly needed.
In the end, the trading system has been serving the game just fine and no one will be leaving ESO because of the trading system. So there is no real reason for Zos to abandon their preferred design.
I literally have friends who have left this game solely because of the lack of an auction house.
I would consider leaving if the game ADDED an auction house.
The game basically uses free market capitalism and it works.
[Quoted post was removed[
Why do you need to have a job as an in game crafter to sell stuff in a trader? Literally two different subjects. That is like saying that you need to grind battlegrounds so you can run trials. I only craft my own stuff and almost all of that is furniture . Ive never had to craft to be in a guild to sell my stuff. In fact almost every trade guild i have been in has been very hands off. Some you can go 2 or 3 weeks or more and not even list an item and these are guilds in one of the top 10 trade hubs, not that guy out at First Watch in the north end of Auridon.
I feel like a lot of people dont bother to learn how this system works but just want to criticize it because its not a lazy AH they dont have to put any more effort into than vendoring an item.amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »
This whole "tying trading to a guild" design concept is bunk. It screws over literally anyone who doesn't want to be a full time trader. The only way to actually sell anything is to join a trading guild, but joining a trading guild is not really viable for anyone who isn't devoting their time to crafting to keep a full inventory up and running to pay the guild dues for. So instead of being able to make a little bit of extra cash with some excess loot tossed up on a vendor, we instead have to waste it by decon'ing it for more mats that we don't really need anyways because we aren't full time crafting.
You really have put zero effort into the whole trade guild concept and decided based on either very limited experience or hearsay from people who have no clue what they are talking about.
There are some weeks when i am to busy to play that i dont list 10 items between all of my trade guilds. I sell recipes and prints in some guilds that sell for 3 times the vendor price. Go look up what 3 times the vendor price is on " Recipe: Roast Pig" and "Pattern: Khajiit Banner, Claw". Not a lot of profit off these things especially when i am selling "Blueprint: Solitude Desk, Ornate" for 6 figures but i still use them as filler and they do sell.
If you do a bit of work and not looking for a top spot its pretty easy to find a guild to sell stuff in that has no requirements. Then if you want to expand your horizons there are guilds that have low requirements, medium requirements, and high requirements. The high requirement guilds are just fleecing you though. You can find low and medium requirement guilds in any trade hub and most will have a no requirement guild that operates off people who like to play raffles and those who sell a lot of big ticket items.
I think if you actually tried a bit to get in a trade guild, you would not have such a problem with it.
"Why do you need to have a job as an in game crafter to sell stuff in a trader?"
Because the only way to sell your gear as a crafter is to join a trade guild that has a vendor. And in order to be in a trade guild, you either have to be able to sell enough stuff to pay your dues, or meet minimum sales goals if you want to be in a guild that has any kind of quality trader.
I basically have to take a virtual retail job.
Not what I'm trying to do when I play a video game.
I want to be able to sell my crafted gear and looted items independently. I don't want to be a full blown crafter, and don't need the benefit of a guild trader. I just want to toss some stuff up on an auction house and get a little bit of credit for items without letting them go to waste. That shouldn't be too much to ask.
But ZOS has decided to tie the entire economy and commerce into guilds, and that's completely out of line. The fact is - I shouldn't *HAVE* to get into a trade guild just to sell some loose pieces of gear or loot here or there. I should be able to put it up on a centralized trader, and leave the trade guilds and guild traders for people who want to be more devoted to that and want to put in a greater investment for greater rewards.
Trust me - no trade guild worth a crap is going to want to take me in just so I have a place to sell the occasional piece of Mother's Sorrow or Plague Doctor's that I come across in random adventures.Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on July 5, 2020 10:49AM1 -
amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Anotherone773 wrote: »ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »
It's probably not just selling their overland set pieces for good money that's the issue for them. It's being able to buy them.
Since newer players are likely not going to belong to trade guilds - there probably isn't a lot of lower level gear coming into the market. Though as you said, you level up so fast on this game I"m not sure it would sell even if there was.
I mean, when I was leveling my main before I could craft stuff, I was occasionally annoyed that I couldn't finish out an overland set that I wanted without having to grind a delve for the gloves, or whatever. But that's such a niche circumstance: a complete newbie with no crafting, no alts, and no crafters in their guild looking to finish out a set for the zone they're currently adventuring in and wearing whatever drops because they've outleveled their stuff from the last zone.
How long would someone's CP50 Epaulets of the Withered Hand have sat in the guild trader before I came along? Especially since it wasn't important enough to stop questing and check the big spots like Elden Root or Mournhold?
The "let everyone trade" AH-supporters are going to be extra salty that all their hard work in getting ZOS to implement a no-effort trading system still doesn't make them millionaires. They're blaming the Shadowy Cabal of The Trade Guild Illuminati rather than the fact they don't really have anything anyone else wants to buy.
You mean like how the trade guildies claim the sky will fall the world will end the economy will collapse the game will be ruined with an auction house despite several other MMOs doing it successfully? If anyone is trying to spread propaganda I'd say it's the trade guildies.
I dont know of any game that uses a central AH that has a robust trade economy. Please give examples of these trade meccas.
Star Wars Galaxies was a GREAT example of having an auction house and a robust economy during its run1 -
Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »First and foremost ALL MMO have one,
I stopped reading at this point as this is the worst reason for anything to be added to ESO. Especially since ESO is superior to any major game on the market today. Those that actually play this game agree with that. Also, the fact the game has done well all these years without a central auction house does demonstrate it is not direly needed.
In the end, the trading system has been serving the game just fine and no one will be leaving ESO because of the trading system. So there is no real reason for Zos to abandon their preferred design.
I literally have friends who have left this game solely because of the lack of an auction house.
I would consider leaving if the game ADDED an auction house.
The game basically uses free market capitalism and it works.
[Quoted post was removed]
Why do you need to have a job as an in game crafter to sell stuff in a trader? Literally two different subjects. That is like saying that you need to grind battlegrounds so you can run trials. I only craft my own stuff and almost all of that is furniture . Ive never had to craft to be in a guild to sell my stuff. In fact almost every trade guild i have been in has been very hands off. Some you can go 2 or 3 weeks or more and not even list an item and these are guilds in one of the top 10 trade hubs, not that guy out at First Watch in the north end of Auridon.
I feel like a lot of people dont bother to learn how this system works but just want to criticize it because its not a lazy AH they dont have to put any more effort into than vendoring an item.amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »
This whole "tying trading to a guild" design concept is bunk. It screws over literally anyone who doesn't want to be a full time trader. The only way to actually sell anything is to join a trading guild, but joining a trading guild is not really viable for anyone who isn't devoting their time to crafting to keep a full inventory up and running to pay the guild dues for. So instead of being able to make a little bit of extra cash with some excess loot tossed up on a vendor, we instead have to waste it by decon'ing it for more mats that we don't really need anyways because we aren't full time crafting.
You really have put zero effort into the whole trade guild concept and decided based on either very limited experience or hearsay from people who have no clue what they are talking about.
There are some weeks when i am to busy to play that i dont list 10 items between all of my trade guilds. I sell recipes and prints in some guilds that sell for 3 times the vendor price. Go look up what 3 times the vendor price is on " Recipe: Roast Pig" and "Pattern: Khajiit Banner, Claw". Not a lot of profit off these things especially when i am selling "Blueprint: Solitude Desk, Ornate" for 6 figures but i still use them as filler and they do sell.
If you do a bit of work and not looking for a top spot its pretty easy to find a guild to sell stuff in that has no requirements. Then if you want to expand your horizons there are guilds that have low requirements, medium requirements, and high requirements. The high requirement guilds are just fleecing you though. You can find low and medium requirement guilds in any trade hub and most will have a no requirement guild that operates off people who like to play raffles and those who sell a lot of big ticket items.
I think if you actually tried a bit to get in a trade guild, you would not have such a problem with it.
"Why do you need to have a job as an in game crafter to sell stuff in a trader?"
Because the only way to sell your gear as a crafter is to join a trade guild that has a vendor. And in order to be in a trade guild, you either have to be able to sell enough stuff to pay your dues, or meet minimum sales goals if you want to be in a guild that has any kind of quality trader.
I basically have to take a virtual retail job.
Not what I'm trying to do when I play a video game.
I want to be able to sell my crafted gear and looted items independently. I don't want to be a full blown crafter, and don't need the benefit of a guild trader. I just want to toss some stuff up on an auction house and get a little bit of credit for items without letting them go to waste. That shouldn't be too much to ask.
But ZOS has decided to tie the entire economy and commerce into guilds, and that's completely out of line. The fact is - I shouldn't *HAVE* to get into a trade guild just to sell some loose pieces of gear or loot here or there. I should be able to put it up on a centralized trader, and leave the trade guilds and guild traders for people who want to be more devoted to that and want to put in a greater investment for greater rewards.
Trust me - no trade guild worth a crap is going to want to take me in just so I have a place to sell the occasional piece of Mother's Sorrow or Plague Doctor's that I come across in random adventures.
Traders are not the doomday scenario you are making them out to be. Like you really are turning molehills into mountains and then actin like they are covered in 3 feet of snow and you have two broken legs all to make the point you prefer a central AH. Except no one is going to take that seriously because your arguments arent logical arguments. There are solutions to every "problem" you give, just not the solution you want of "central AH"Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on July 5, 2020 10:50AM4 -
barney2525✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭You got people here who just love the trading system, for whatever reason. And you have people who just want to play the game. As has been pointed out, every other game uses some type of AH (although, I agree, I don't see the point of 'bidding', when the option to buy immediately is all the vast majority of players click on, and thus it should not be an "Auction" house per se) . Those Auction Houses work just fine and there is No clamoring for them to change to something different.
Bottom line - switching to a Buying House will have some flack from ex-traders for about a month. And then everyone will settle in and this issue will no longer be a Negative aspect of playing ESO.
IMHO
3 -
barney2525✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ItsJustHashtag wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »First and foremost ALL MMO have one,
I stopped reading at this point as this is the worst reason for anything to be added to ESO. Especially since ESO is superior to any major game on the market today. Those that actually play this game agree with that. Also, the fact the game has done well all these years without a central auction house does demonstrate it is not direly needed.
In the end, the trading system has been serving the game just fine and no one will be leaving ESO because of the trading system. So there is no real reason for Zos to abandon their preferred design.
I literally have friends who have left this game solely because of the lack of an auction house.
Imma say it, if your friends left the game and blamed not having an auction house then they never really wanted to be apart of this game anyway. Of all the reasons to leave ESO this is literally at the bottom of the list.
The Denial of the ability to make gold in this game, because you are Denied the right to sell your stuff, and you say this is bottom of the barrel?
You have a very weird opinion. Fortunately, that's all it is. Opinion.
IMHO 3 -
colossalvoids✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭barney2525 wrote: »ItsJustHashtag wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »First and foremost ALL MMO have one,
I stopped reading at this point as this is the worst reason for anything to be added to ESO. Especially since ESO is superior to any major game on the market today. Those that actually play this game agree with that. Also, the fact the game has done well all these years without a central auction house does demonstrate it is not direly needed.
In the end, the trading system has been serving the game just fine and no one will be leaving ESO because of the trading system. So there is no real reason for Zos to abandon their preferred design.
I literally have friends who have left this game solely because of the lack of an auction house.
Imma say it, if your friends left the game and blamed not having an auction house then they never really wanted to be apart of this game anyway. Of all the reasons to leave ESO this is literally at the bottom of the list.
The Denial of the ability to make gold in this game, because you are Denied the right to sell your stuff, and you say this is bottom of the barrel?
You have a very weird opinion. Fortunately, that's all it is. Opinion.
IMHO
Do you really think that players who can't open guild finder tab or just refusing to participate because "my x game had another system" or "I'm a lone wolf woof" are denied? That's pretty rich. People are recruiting 24/7 and that's purely on them.9 -
Taleof2Cities✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭colossalvoids wrote: »barney2525 wrote: »ItsJustHashtag wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »First and foremost ALL MMO have one,
I stopped reading at this point as this is the worst reason for anything to be added to ESO. Especially since ESO is superior to any major game on the market today. Those that actually play this game agree with that. Also, the fact the game has done well all these years without a central auction house does demonstrate it is not direly needed.
In the end, the trading system has been serving the game just fine and no one will be leaving ESO because of the trading system. So there is no real reason for Zos to abandon their preferred design.
I literally have friends who have left this game solely because of the lack of an auction house.
Imma say it, if your friends left the game and blamed not having an auction house then they never really wanted to be apart of this game anyway. Of all the reasons to leave ESO this is literally at the bottom of the list.
The Denial of the ability to make gold in this game, because you are Denied the right to sell your stuff, and you say this is bottom of the barrel?
You have a very weird opinion. Fortunately, that's all it is. Opinion.
IMHO
Do you really think that players who can't open guild finder tab or just refusing to participate because "my x game had another system" or "I'm a lone wolf woof" are denied? That's pretty rich. People are recruiting 24/7 and that's purely on them.
^ Not only is this true, but it's extremely easy to get into a casual trading guild in ESO.
But some players would rather use that time instead to complain in the forums ...9 -
amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I guess a lot who are against this trading system have either not tried it or chose the wrong guild. Wrong in the meaning of not considering what amount of items and item value you have to sell to stay in that guild. When a major trade hub guild expects you to sell 150k per week, that means you will have to offer items for 7.8 million gold within a year - if you are playing for longer than a year and don't have stuff for 7.8 million in stock, you are just plain wrong in such a guild.
In that case you should choose one, where you can keep up with the average demand of that guild - you don't need a major trade hub guild, if you have just a couple of tens of thousands gold worth to sell per week - let's say 30k/week - this is still 1.56 million gold worth in a year - if you haven't accumulated that value in a year playing, you are as well wrong there and need a more remote guild, which might cost you nothing at all, but which matches your offer volume much better - eventually even one that has a trader just once per month - then you have a volume which matches the cost of the trader much better.
But if you're one of those low volume sellers, why should you be railroaded through a guild at all?
Just give me a public vendor I can toss some extra gear on to make a few coins.
I'm not trying to "win" Economy Scrolls Online. I just want to not let some of my overland loot go to waste and make a few coins in the process that might buy me some potions when I run low and need some for a trial run2 -
amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Anotherone773 wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »First and foremost ALL MMO have one,
I stopped reading at this point as this is the worst reason for anything to be added to ESO. Especially since ESO is superior to any major game on the market today. Those that actually play this game agree with that. Also, the fact the game has done well all these years without a central auction house does demonstrate it is not direly needed.
In the end, the trading system has been serving the game just fine and no one will be leaving ESO because of the trading system. So there is no real reason for Zos to abandon their preferred design.
I literally have friends who have left this game solely because of the lack of an auction house.
I would consider leaving if the game ADDED an auction house.
The game basically uses free market capitalism and it works.
[Quoted post was removed]
Why do you need to have a job as an in game crafter to sell stuff in a trader? Literally two different subjects. That is like saying that you need to grind battlegrounds so you can run trials. I only craft my own stuff and almost all of that is furniture . Ive never had to craft to be in a guild to sell my stuff. In fact almost every trade guild i have been in has been very hands off. Some you can go 2 or 3 weeks or more and not even list an item and these are guilds in one of the top 10 trade hubs, not that guy out at First Watch in the north end of Auridon.
I feel like a lot of people dont bother to learn how this system works but just want to criticize it because its not a lazy AH they dont have to put any more effort into than vendoring an item.amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »
This whole "tying trading to a guild" design concept is bunk. It screws over literally anyone who doesn't want to be a full time trader. The only way to actually sell anything is to join a trading guild, but joining a trading guild is not really viable for anyone who isn't devoting their time to crafting to keep a full inventory up and running to pay the guild dues for. So instead of being able to make a little bit of extra cash with some excess loot tossed up on a vendor, we instead have to waste it by decon'ing it for more mats that we don't really need anyways because we aren't full time crafting.
You really have put zero effort into the whole trade guild concept and decided based on either very limited experience or hearsay from people who have no clue what they are talking about.
There are some weeks when i am to busy to play that i dont list 10 items between all of my trade guilds. I sell recipes and prints in some guilds that sell for 3 times the vendor price. Go look up what 3 times the vendor price is on " Recipe: Roast Pig" and "Pattern: Khajiit Banner, Claw". Not a lot of profit off these things especially when i am selling "Blueprint: Solitude Desk, Ornate" for 6 figures but i still use them as filler and they do sell.
If you do a bit of work and not looking for a top spot its pretty easy to find a guild to sell stuff in that has no requirements. Then if you want to expand your horizons there are guilds that have low requirements, medium requirements, and high requirements. The high requirement guilds are just fleecing you though. You can find low and medium requirement guilds in any trade hub and most will have a no requirement guild that operates off people who like to play raffles and those who sell a lot of big ticket items.
I think if you actually tried a bit to get in a trade guild, you would not have such a problem with it.
"Why do you need to have a job as an in game crafter to sell stuff in a trader?"
Because the only way to sell your gear as a crafter is to join a trade guild that has a vendor. And in order to be in a trade guild, you either have to be able to sell enough stuff to pay your dues, or meet minimum sales goals if you want to be in a guild that has any kind of quality trader.
I basically have to take a virtual retail job.
Not what I'm trying to do when I play a video game.
I want to be able to sell my crafted gear and looted items independently. I don't want to be a full blown crafter, and don't need the benefit of a guild trader. I just want to toss some stuff up on an auction house and get a little bit of credit for items without letting them go to waste. That shouldn't be too much to ask.
But ZOS has decided to tie the entire economy and commerce into guilds, and that's completely out of line. The fact is - I shouldn't *HAVE* to get into a trade guild just to sell some loose pieces of gear or loot here or there. I should be able to put it up on a centralized trader, and leave the trade guilds and guild traders for people who want to be more devoted to that and want to put in a greater investment for greater rewards.
Trust me - no trade guild worth a crap is going to want to take me in just so I have a place to sell the occasional piece of Mother's Sorrow or Plague Doctor's that I come across in random adventures.
Traders are not the doomday scenario you are making them out to be. Like you really are turning molehills into mountains and then actin like they are covered in 3 feet of snow and you have two broken legs all to make the point you prefer a central AH. Except no one is going to take that seriously because your arguments arent logical arguments. There are solutions to every "problem" you give, just not the solution you want of "central AH"
Everything you just said also applies to the anti-AH rhetoric.
The economy isnt going to collapse because I have a public trade to sell some spare pieces of gearEdited by ZOS_ConnorG on July 5, 2020 10:57AM2 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭imo a medium trader in a location where a lot of people are and wait for their friends to join is a far better spot than a major trading hub - I have a spot like this - stuff sells like hot cakes there, if it is something these people want - and because they are waiting for their friends they have nothing else to do than look what traders have to offer right in that location where they wait - this is a gold mine - and it's not a major trade hub at all.Edited by Lysette on June 30, 2020 10:21PM0 -
Kalik_Gold✭✭✭✭✭
✭Don't desire an auction house, but a "trade channel" for public sales, is welcomed.Main: (PvP & PvE)PS5/NA - Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar - Daggerfall Covenant • 1550+ Champion
Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar, the Vestige
PvP:
Aurik Siet'ka a Redguard Necromancer
Cacique the Sage of Ius a Redguard Warden
Jux Blackheart a Redguard Nightblade
Goliath of Hammerfell a Redguard Dragonknight
Kaotik Von Dae'mon a Redguard* Sorcerer
PvP: (Specialty)
Tyrus Septim an Imperial Lycan Sorcerer
Tsar af-Bomba a Redguard Vampiric Nightblade (Bomber)
Movárth Piquine a Nord Vampiric Necromancer
Uri Ice-Heart the Twin a Nord Vampiric Warden
Voa a Priest of Sep a Redguard* Necromancer
PvE:
Cinan Tharn an Imperial Dragonknight (Tank)
Bates Vesuius of Dawnstar an Imperial Dragonknight (Damage)
Herzog Zwei the Genesis an Akavari* Templar (Healer)
Tav'i at-Shinji a Redguard** Warden (One-Bar)
Lucky Hunch the Gambler - a Redguard Nightblade (Thief)
Leveling...
Two-Big-Horns an Argonian Arcanist
Styx of Akatosh a Goblin* Arcanist
Zenovia at-Tura a Redguard** Sorcerer
Yesi af-Kalik a Redguard Templar
======
Passives of another race used. (RP)
*Breton
**Imperial
__________________________Backstories:_________________________
Ras Kalik the Vestige, a renown Redguard warrior; He has been blessed to save Tamriel from Molag Bal’s destructive Planemeld while reuniting the Five Companions. His further accomplishments after defeating Molag Bal, has been to stop the destruction of Morrowind, the Clockwork City, return order to the isle of Summerset and create a new king in Wrothgar and a queen in Elsywer. These events have made him a living legend and continue to lead him into new adventures throughout Tamriel, as well as into the hearts of many ladies including the Elf Queen, Aryenn. Over many years of adventurous travels, Ras Kalik had become a loner, until he re-visited his homeland of Alik'r.
Alik'r and it's cities were overrun by the undead Ra-Netu and therefore he made an allegiance with Alik'r's own Ash'abah tribe. These Ash'abah with his help, cleansed the city of Sentinel in Alik'r desert and it's surrounding areas of the undead brought to life by the Withered Hand. After rescuing Sentinel from the undead zombies, King Fahara’jad’s personal bodyguard the Goliath of Hammerfell, who was given this name by Imperials in the region; was asked to assist the tribe after learning of the defeat of the Withered Hand to the Ash'abah. Kalik promised Goliath he would task him with fighting living enemies on the battlefield if he so desired. Goliath being a Yokudan warrior wields a massive sword in respect to the Ansei, a gift given by the Imperial, Cinan Tharn. Not many soldiers are able to wield double two handed weapons, but Goliath loves to get up and personal in a fight, so he also carries a giant maul, both weapons laced with magical flames.
Jux Blackheart is a master thief that masquerades as a Bard at the Sisters of the Sands inn, with his younger sidekick Lucky Hunch for pilfering and gambling during this time. Jux was known to infiltrate any towns bank vault he came across and even delved into Ayelid ruins without detection. Kalik can vividly recall the night he met the famed thief. Jux found himself rummaging thru a slightly inebriated Kalik’s pocket for too long, on a full-mooned night and because of his greed and the glimmer of his golden armor in the moonlight. He lost his left pinky fingertip as a lesson! But in return, he gained a new friend, as it was his first time since a child being caught red-handed...
Upon arrival back in the Alik'r after many moons of adventuring, Ras Kalik ventures to Bergama. Visiting The Winking Jackal, he runs into Jux Blackheart, who introduces him to the coin game Crowns vs Forebearers (Heads vs Tails) and Golden Dwemer (RBG).... Jux constantly takes gold from the unfortunate thru theft or gambling, his biggest gambling victim is actually his partner in crime known as Lucky Hunch the Gambler. Lucky doesn't mind losing any gold coins to Jux... as Jux saved him from Altmer slavers in Summerset, by stealing a key and sending him on a boat to the mainland years prior. Lucky spent years in slavery with Khajiits in Summerset and picked up the art of subterfuge, using illusion magic disguises and stealing there.
Kaotik Von’Daemon an outcast, and a half-caste between a Breton mother and a Redguard father. Kaotik become a pariah due to his conjuration of Daedra pets. He was taught healing magic during his childhood years by his Breton mother. His father due to Redguard customs exiled him from the desert, sending him by wagon caravan to be a soldier in the war in Cyrodiil. He happened to meet Kalik while traveling from Alik'r, during this long caravan ride the caravan he was in was ambushed in Bangkorai by a group of bandits. Kalik by chance was also traveling thru this area on his Auridon Warhorse (which was bestowed to him by his friend, Darien Gautier). During this ambush, Kalik was able to rescue five hostages from the bandits. Kaotik was the first rescued, and Ras Kalik also recruited him to be in the Ash'abah tribe. These core Ash'abah tribesmen may never be seen together in travel as they partake in their own adventures but they always know what each other is doing; as they frequent a hideout in northern Bankorai. Their hideout an old Orc castle ruin, is kept watch by Nuzhimeh and she passes messages written between them, and frequently they also enjoy her company and her bed.
The other men rescued were a Dunmer banker, an Imperial mercenary and two other soldiers, an Imperial and a Breton Knight, stating proudly he was an Akavir descendent. One of the Imperials, Cinan, claimed to be related to Abnur Tharn the Battlemage of the Imperial Elder Council (One of Ras Kalik's mentors in the Five Companions). Cinan Tharn was really Abnur's drunkard treasure hunting illegitimate son. He was caught smuggling artifacts out of the Ayleid ruins in Cyrodiil and the elder of the two Imperials was Tyrus Septim a retired Imperial navy battle-mage (now a Lycan mercenary living in the city of Rimmen) and guard to the Tharn family. As much as Abnur Tharn hated his half-sister Euraxia, he dislikes his bas†ard son Cinan more. Tyrus now a ruffian and privateer had been paid by Abnur Tharn to watch over Cinan as much as possible. Cinan Tharn a drunkard, loves to drink at least a quarter barrel of Nord mead before he raids various delves and dungeons for relics to sell on the black market. Cinan also plans to one day, run an illegal gambling ring... which he thinks will net him more gold for his wares.
The Dunmer captive shackled to the Imperials looked familiar to Kalik from his time in Morrowind.... and he recognized him as Tythis Andromo a House Telvanni slave-owner and banker from Vvardenfell. During a rough interrogation to Tythis, Ras Kalik learnt why the bandits accosted him. The racist Dunmer was providing slaves as soldiers for the Three Banner War. The bandits were trying to negotiate a lucrative ransom for Andromo and the Imperials.... Kalik did not need any of this gold and he could never set Tythis free as he did with the two Imperial soldiers. His past involvement with slavery and war crimes, made Kalik's blood boil. He chose not to execute Tythis, as he figured the worse punishment for this former rich and opulent slave owner, is to now be an imprisoned servant for Ras Kalik and the tribe.
Herzog Zwei the Genesis a reknown Imperial/Akavirri battle-mage. His roots going back to Akavir through his mother’s bloodline. (His mother is descended from the Akaviri, through Versidue-Shae, and his Imperial father met her in Hakoshae, while traveling) Herzog earned the nickname "the Genesis" from his father as a child, as he was his mother's first born child, and last, as she tragically died in child-birth.
Herzog was seeking to purchase an artifact from Cinan Tharn, before their capture and was meeting Tyrus while in Rimmen, who introduced him to Cinan. This artifact being the Ayelid artifact; the sword Sinweaver. After their rescue and the exchange of gold to Cinan for the sword he decided to slip away before Ras Kalik could question who he was, and why the Akavir descendant really wanted that sword. Herzog was headed to Nagastani — An Ayleid ruin in eastern Cyrodiil. He had read in scrolls that the Sword would give him magical powers to meet his mothers spirit, if he performed an Ayleid ritual at an old shrine hidden there. Equipped with the artifact sword, he was off to start his own adventure but Ras Kalik, did indeed notice the sword however and instead sent a letter to Jux Blackheart (whom also was interested in Ayleid treasures), to attempt to find Herzog and acquire the sword. (*Azani Blackheart in Elder Scroll's Oblivion is Jux's descendant some 747 years later)
And so the Redguard, Imperial and Akaviri men parted ways ... While Ras Kalik went off to Elsweyr to encounter the latest threat to Tamriel, with Abnur Tharn and Sai Sahan - - DRAGONS!! Little did Ras Kalik know a few people were awaiting him in Senchal besides Sai. A necromancer survived his attack on the Withered Hand, while in Alik'r. The necromancer known as Auriek Siet'ka is also following him to the land of the Khajiits and Cacique the Sage of Ius a Shaman mystic who has become attuned spiritually with Tu'whacca (a Redguard God) and Ius (the Animal God), after being burned severely by the escaped dragons in Elsywer, is awaiting his arrival also. Aurik is a soldier of the Daggerfall Covenant that was introduced to necromancy while in the military, even though this magicka art is not spoken of openly by most of the Military leaders. He came to Alik'r and worked with the Withered Hand before Ras Kalik intervened on their plans. After the defeat of the Withered Hand, he aligned with the Worm Cult, and is constantly adapting and perfecting his necromantic arts.
After his journey to Rimmen, Kalik heads south to Senchal, in the southern regions of Elyswer. This new adventure will also put him on a path to meet a strange Redguard man. The stranger which was infected with an untreated Peyrite disease and also was the exiled from the Order of the New Moon cult, due to his sickness. He originally joined the cult to worship Laatvulon, the green dragon, mistakenly thinking it was the Daedric prince Peyrite. This confused and suffering cultist is known as Tsar al-Bomba and he is on a path to spread the disease. He was originally infected in Orccrest while recruiting members there. Can Ras Kalik and the shaman Cacique cure this poor soul, only time will tell. Little does Tsar al-Bomba know, that his infection is tied to Vampirism, and eventually the desire for blood will take over his mind. Senchal also offers Kalik his latest love interest... Aeliah. Whom he fondly led thru battles with the Dragonguard.
After the trek thru the heat, tropical and desert climate of Northern and Southern Elyswer, Ras Kalik heads north to the cold mountain range of Skyrim. His companion friend Lyris beckons for him with a letter sent by crow...
Movárth Piquine - a former vampire hunter (now infected), within the Fighter's Guild (and a secretive necromancer) was in Skyrim working with the Morthaal Guard. On a patrol mission he was caught in Frewien's ice curse outside of Morthaal with the frozen undead. Movárth's vampiric infection kept him from becoming an undead minion to the curse. He was able to use necromantic ice-magic to encase himself safely until he was freed with Freiwen, when the Vestige Ras Kalik broke the curse.
Uri Ice-Heart - brother of Urfon Ice-Heart. The twin sons of Atli and Oljourn Ice-Heart. The Ice-Heart family are originally from Markarth but now reside on the Jerall Mountain range near Cyrodiil, with their younger sister Araki. The twins had joined the Winterborn Reachmen while living in Markarth. Urfon pushed west to Orsinium with the Winterborn Clan, leaving his family behind. Uri stayed behind with his parents and sister to live in the family cabin for safety, avoiding the Vampire plague infiltrating the Reach. After news reaches him and he hears of Urfon's death... Uri leaves and heads home and is seeking vengeance. Meanwhile, his sister has also moved on to Windhelm to join the Fighter's guild. He will visit his sister, once before going to seek vengeance and she will craft him armor mixed with ice, called Stalhrim armor. Uri fearing death, after his brother's passing, falls victim to the convincing talk of Movárth at a Nordic tavern, and will also becomes a vampire.
{time moves forward through the hour-glass}
Returning player - 2017-2022, back in 25'1
This discussion has been closed.