Why is this game so easy?
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StormeReigns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yeah so I’ve been playing classic wow and it’s very easy. The one time I died was from an elite bat in the forest respawning on top of me while resting.
The time in between fights is so long.
I see videos of kiting, strafing, keeping out of range, etc. That is absolutely not what a noob will do. A noob will stand still. You may not be using spells but you are using player experience.
I haven’t been convinced. A difference in combat philosophy is the biggest factor to what an individual finds “easy”. There are people, real people, who do not find ESO easy. I meet them, I’m in guilds with them, I do events with them, I see them struggling everywhere I go.
Having played wow classic, wow live, and eso this week I’m still firmly in the belief that wow is the easier game.
By the way, this is a video of PROFESSIONAL WoW players getting their butts kicked in classic.
Enjoy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8unROhEnwY
https://youtu.be/npnCYHKKh5c 0 -
Dahveed✭✭✭✭✭
✭StormeReigns wrote: »Yeah so I’ve been playing classic wow and it’s very easy. The one time I died was from an elite bat in the forest respawning on top of me while resting.
The time in between fights is so long.
I see videos of kiting, strafing, keeping out of range, etc. That is absolutely not what a noob will do. A noob will stand still. You may not be using spells but you are using player experience.
I haven’t been convinced. A difference in combat philosophy is the biggest factor to what an individual finds “easy”. There are people, real people, who do not find ESO easy. I meet them, I’m in guilds with them, I do events with them, I see them struggling everywhere I go.
Having played wow classic, wow live, and eso this week I’m still firmly in the belief that wow is the easier game.
By the way, this is a video of PROFESSIONAL WoW players getting their butts kicked in classic.
Enjoyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8unROhEnwYhttps://youtu.be/npnCYHKKh5c
Is this supposed to prove anything? It shows an end-game geared-to-the-*** warrior doing instance farming and has literally nothing to do with anything discussed in this thread. You might as well have posted a video of a pigeon laying an egg for the same level of "Gotcha!".
Leveling toons in WoW classic overworld is hard.... Either that, or some of the best WoW players on the entire planet, who play the game for a living, are all suddenly terrible at it.3 -
Glurin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭StormeReigns wrote: »Yeah so I’ve been playing classic wow and it’s very easy. The one time I died was from an elite bat in the forest respawning on top of me while resting.
The time in between fights is so long.
I see videos of kiting, strafing, keeping out of range, etc. That is absolutely not what a noob will do. A noob will stand still. You may not be using spells but you are using player experience.
I haven’t been convinced. A difference in combat philosophy is the biggest factor to what an individual finds “easy”. There are people, real people, who do not find ESO easy. I meet them, I’m in guilds with them, I do events with them, I see them struggling everywhere I go.
Having played wow classic, wow live, and eso this week I’m still firmly in the belief that wow is the easier game.
By the way, this is a video of PROFESSIONAL WoW players getting their butts kicked in classic.
Enjoyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8unROhEnwYhttps://youtu.be/npnCYHKKh5c
Is this supposed to prove anything? It shows an end-game geared-to-the-*** warrior doing instance farming and has literally nothing to do with anything discussed in this thread. You might as well have posted a video of a pigeon laying an egg for the same level of "Gotcha!".
Leveling toons in WoW classic overworld is hard.... Either that, or some of the best WoW players on the entire planet, who play the game for a living, are all suddenly terrible at it.
Or they were always terrible at it, but because of all the power creep and whatnot, nobody noticed. Kinda falls in line with what I've been saying for a long time now. If you're doing gargantuan amounts of damage so everything dies in seconds, real skill falls by the wayside. By the time I left WoW, it seemed like most dungeon groups didn't even know that CC was a thing."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..."3 -
max_only✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Why are you attacking 3 at once? WoW classic was made for “smart pulls” since day 1. It was never meant for you to attack large groups.
Two different combat philosophies. Stop treating Legend of Zelda: the Minish Cap like The Witcher: Wild Hunt.
Btw, both WoW and the Minish Cap were released in 2004.Edited by max_only on May 13, 2020 6:01AM#FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
#OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
|| CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom3 -
max_only✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yeah so I’ve been playing classic wow and it’s very easy. The one time I died was from an elite bat in the forest respawning on top of me while resting.
The time in between fights is so long.
I see videos of kiting, strafing, keeping out of range, etc. That is absolutely not what a noob will do. A noob will stand still. You may not be using spells but you are using player experience.
I haven’t been convinced. A difference in combat philosophy is the biggest factor to what an individual finds “easy”. There are people, real people, who do not find ESO easy. I meet them, I’m in guilds with them, I do events with them, I see them struggling everywhere I go.
Having played wow classic, wow live, and eso this week I’m still firmly in the belief that wow is the easier game.
By the way, this is a video of PROFESSIONAL WoW players getting their butts kicked in classic.
Enjoyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8unROhEnwY
I watched the first streamer. He’s not paying attention to what he’s doing. Jumping around doesn’t help in classic wow because you can’t cast while moving. He’s fighting 3 enemies above his level. Why not use your first 10 silver to learn knives or bows on a Warrior so you can pull one at a time? Why not fight yellow difficulty mobs, why does he need to fight harder ones?
If that’s how you’re doing it then that is a failure in understanding the game. Use your 2004 mind, not your 2020 mind.#FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
#OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
|| CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom3 -
Dahveed✭✭✭✭✭
✭StormeReigns wrote: »Yeah so I’ve been playing classic wow and it’s very easy. The one time I died was from an elite bat in the forest respawning on top of me while resting.
The time in between fights is so long.
I see videos of kiting, strafing, keeping out of range, etc. That is absolutely not what a noob will do. A noob will stand still. You may not be using spells but you are using player experience.
I haven’t been convinced. A difference in combat philosophy is the biggest factor to what an individual finds “easy”. There are people, real people, who do not find ESO easy. I meet them, I’m in guilds with them, I do events with them, I see them struggling everywhere I go.
Having played wow classic, wow live, and eso this week I’m still firmly in the belief that wow is the easier game.
By the way, this is a video of PROFESSIONAL WoW players getting their butts kicked in classic.
Enjoyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8unROhEnwYhttps://youtu.be/npnCYHKKh5c
Is this supposed to prove anything? It shows an end-game geared-to-the-*** warrior doing instance farming and has literally nothing to do with anything discussed in this thread. You might as well have posted a video of a pigeon laying an egg for the same level of "Gotcha!".
Leveling toons in WoW classic overworld is hard.... Either that, or some of the best WoW players on the entire planet, who play the game for a living, are all suddenly terrible at it.
Or they were always terrible at it, but because of all the power creep and whatnot, nobody noticed. Kinda falls in line with what I've been saying for a long time now. If you're doing gargantuan amounts of damage so everything dies in seconds, real skill falls by the wayside. By the time I left WoW, it seemed like most dungeon groups didn't even know that CC was a thing.
There you guys go talking about dungeons again. You're in the wrong thread.3 -
Dahveed✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yeah so I’ve been playing classic wow and it’s very easy. The one time I died was from an elite bat in the forest respawning on top of me while resting.
The time in between fights is so long.
I see videos of kiting, strafing, keeping out of range, etc. That is absolutely not what a noob will do. A noob will stand still. You may not be using spells but you are using player experience.
I haven’t been convinced. A difference in combat philosophy is the biggest factor to what an individual finds “easy”. There are people, real people, who do not find ESO easy. I meet them, I’m in guilds with them, I do events with them, I see them struggling everywhere I go.
Having played wow classic, wow live, and eso this week I’m still firmly in the belief that wow is the easier game.
By the way, this is a video of PROFESSIONAL WoW players getting their butts kicked in classic.
Enjoyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8unROhEnwY
I watched the first streamer. He’s not paying attention to what he’s doing. Jumping around doesn’t help in classic wow because you can’t cast while moving. He’s fighting 3 enemies above his level. Why not use your first 10 silver to learn knives or bows on a Warrior so you can pull one at a time? Why not fight yellow difficulty mobs, why does he need to fight harder ones?
If that’s how you’re doing it then that is a failure in understanding the game. Use your 2004 mind, not your 2020 mind.
You are proving my point.
WoW classic, you had to pay attention to what you were doing and play properly.
That is EXACTLY my point. Thank you.3 -
Dahveed✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yeah so I’ve been playing classic wow and it’s very easy. The one time I died was from an elite bat in the forest respawning on top of me while resting.
The time in between fights is so long.
I see videos of kiting, strafing, keeping out of range, etc. That is absolutely not what a noob will do. A noob will stand still. You may not be using spells but you are using player experience.
I haven’t been convinced. A difference in combat philosophy is the biggest factor to what an individual finds “easy”. There are people, real people, who do not find ESO easy. I meet them, I’m in guilds with them, I do events with them, I see them struggling everywhere I go.
Having played wow classic, wow live, and eso this week I’m still firmly in the belief that wow is the easier game.
By the way, this is a video of PROFESSIONAL WoW players getting their butts kicked in classic.
Enjoyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8unROhEnwY
I watched the first streamer. He’s not paying attention to what he’s doing. Jumping around doesn’t help in classic wow because you can’t cast while moving. He’s fighting 3 enemies above his level. Why not use your first 10 silver to learn knives or bows on a Warrior so you can pull one at a time? Why not fight yellow difficulty mobs, why does he need to fight harder ones?
If that’s how you’re doing it then that is a failure in understanding the game. Use your 2004 mind, not your 2020 mind.
He’s fighting 3 enemies above his level.
Literally the very first death in the entire video is against a single same-level murloc.0 -
Dahveed✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why are you attacking 3 at once? WoW classic was made for “smart pulls” since day 1. It was never meant for you to attack large groups.
Two different combat philosophies. Stop treating Legend of Zelda: the Minish Cap like The Witcher: Wild Hunt.
Btw, both WoW and the Minish Cap were released in 2004.
Why are you attacking 3 at once?
Because in many, many cases, you don't have a choice. (I'm guessing you haven't played WoW recently.) There are many camps of enemies where 3 or even 4 or 5 enemies pull if you grab one of them, even from range using a gun, bow, throwing knife etc. That's how they are placed.
Two different combat philosophies. Stop treating Legend of Zelda: the Minish Cap like The Witcher: Wild Hunt.
So the goalpost moves again. Now we aren't talking about difficulty anymore. Now suddenly we aren't even allowed to compare them.
And, for the record - in case it wasn't glaringly obvious - I am comparing one MMORPG to another MMORPG. Your comparison of a pixelated, isometric RPG to The Witcher isn't even CLOSE to justified, even if your point were relevant (which it isn't).
The discussion on the last couple of pages has been: Was WoW Classic's overworld leveling harder, easier, or the same difficulty as ESO overworld's leveling?
People have tried to claim that WoW classic leveling was easy. I then show one of the top streamers on the planet, who has been playing the game as a FULL TIME JOB for the past 16 years, fail repeatedly and horribly while leveling in WoW Classic. And people are still trying to say it's easy.
No amount of proof will convince any of you.
Edited by Dahveed on May 13, 2020 7:25AM1 -
Morgha_Kul✭✭✭✭✭
✭Prof_Bawbag wrote: »My biggest beef with overland isn't the difficulty per se, it's the condensed nature of the enemies. If they made overland more difficult, I hope they would thin the herd out. As easy as it is, it still gets tedious asf having to kill enemies every two steps. Especially in delves. If it was more difficult, that would become amplified even more.
Oblivion suffered with this too. As soon as you stepped off the beaten track there was hostile animals or npcs galore. Again, it wasn't difficult, but it became tedious to the point I stopped venturing off the beaten path. This improved immensely with Skyrim. You could actually explore without having to be in combat every few steps.
Actually, that's one of the things about this game I really LIKE. Most older games suffered from incomprehensible carpets of enemies that had no real purpose but to slow you down. LotRO is really bad for this, you can't take 2 steps without having to fight ANOTHER bird or orc or boar or what have you. It makes the game incredibly tedious, because you can't GET anywhere important. You have a mission in Mournhold? Well, too bad; you're going to spend 5 hours fighting your way there so you can do the mission in 2 minutes.
I like it as it is... though I agree that enemies overland are a bit too flimsy.Exploring Tamriel since 1994.0 -
Dahveed✭✭✭✭✭
✭Morgha_Kul wrote: »Prof_Bawbag wrote: »My biggest beef with overland isn't the difficulty per se, it's the condensed nature of the enemies. If they made overland more difficult, I hope they would thin the herd out. As easy as it is, it still gets tedious asf having to kill enemies every two steps. Especially in delves. If it was more difficult, that would become amplified even more.
Oblivion suffered with this too. As soon as you stepped off the beaten track there was hostile animals or npcs galore. Again, it wasn't difficult, but it became tedious to the point I stopped venturing off the beaten path. This improved immensely with Skyrim. You could actually explore without having to be in combat every few steps.
Actually, that's one of the things about this game I really LIKE. Most older games suffered from incomprehensible carpets of enemies that had no real purpose but to slow you down. LotRO is really bad for this, you can't take 2 steps without having to fight ANOTHER bird or orc or boar or what have you. It makes the game incredibly tedious, because you can't GET anywhere important. You have a mission in Mournhold? Well, too bad; you're going to spend 5 hours fighting your way there so you can do the mission in 2 minutes.
I like it as it is... though I agree that enemies overland are a bit too flimsy.
IMO Oblivion and Skyrim were best at this. There were enemies, and yeah some of them had no real "reason" to attack the player (wildlife especially) but there were stretches of overland which are just forest, and you feel like you can just explore and take in the scenery without having to beat off a raving band of slobbering beasts everyone 20 seconds...
I too would love it if more of ESO's zones were like Cyrodiil, for example, where you can go for quite a while without being attacked. But this is VERY unlikely to ever happen, probably in any other video game like this EVER, because every new generation's attention span just keeps getting shorter and shorter, so devs need to put flashy shiny things in front of people at every turn to keep their interest...1 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yeah so I’ve been playing classic wow and it’s very easy. The one time I died was from an elite bat in the forest respawning on top of me while resting.
The time in between fights is so long.
I see videos of kiting, strafing, keeping out of range, etc. That is absolutely not what a noob will do. A noob will stand still. You may not be using spells but you are using player experience.
I haven’t been convinced. A difference in combat philosophy is the biggest factor to what an individual finds “easy”. There are people, real people, who do not find ESO easy. I meet them, I’m in guilds with them, I do events with them, I see them struggling everywhere I go.
Having played wow classic, wow live, and eso this week I’m still firmly in the belief that wow is the easier game.
By the way, this is a video of PROFESSIONAL WoW players getting their butts kicked in classic.
Enjoyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8unROhEnwY
I watched the first streamer. He’s not paying attention to what he’s doing. Jumping around doesn’t help in classic wow because you can’t cast while moving. He’s fighting 3 enemies above his level. Why not use your first 10 silver to learn knives or bows on a Warrior so you can pull one at a time? Why not fight yellow difficulty mobs, why does he need to fight harder ones?
If that’s how you’re doing it then that is a failure in understanding the game. Use your 2004 mind, not your 2020 mind.
And what prevents ESO players to do the same what WoW players do? So WoW is balanced in a way, that even newbie will use majority of available abilities and won't proceed anywhere without those. In ESO maximum what you need is 1 aoe spammable and 1 self-heal. Just mash this 2 buttons without aim or timings and you'll never die.1 -
robertthebard✭✭✭✭✭Yeah so I’ve been playing classic wow and it’s very easy. The one time I died was from an elite bat in the forest respawning on top of me while resting.
The time in between fights is so long.
I see videos of kiting, strafing, keeping out of range, etc. That is absolutely not what a noob will do. A noob will stand still. You may not be using spells but you are using player experience.
I haven’t been convinced. A difference in combat philosophy is the biggest factor to what an individual finds “easy”. There are people, real people, who do not find ESO easy. I meet them, I’m in guilds with them, I do events with them, I see them struggling everywhere I go.
Having played wow classic, wow live, and eso this week I’m still firmly in the belief that wow is the easier game.
By the way, this is a video of PROFESSIONAL WoW players getting their butts kicked in classic.
Enjoyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8unROhEnwY
I watched the first streamer. He’s not paying attention to what he’s doing. Jumping around doesn’t help in classic wow because you can’t cast while moving. He’s fighting 3 enemies above his level. Why not use your first 10 silver to learn knives or bows on a Warrior so you can pull one at a time? Why not fight yellow difficulty mobs, why does he need to fight harder ones?
If that’s how you’re doing it then that is a failure in understanding the game. Use your 2004 mind, not your 2020 mind.
He’s fighting 3 enemies above his level.
Literally the very first death in the entire video is against a single same-level murloc.
Which doesn't support "Professional that knows what he's doing", but more supports "noob". You know, the same thing you'd suggest about people dying here in overland content. I'd expect that a good player, or a professional, wouldn't have this problem, yes? I would expect that they knew what they were doing enough to be able to survive a trash mob, but that's not what we see. It doesn't make me go "Oh hey, our game needs to be that hard", it makes me go "Yep, WoW players are best at Leeroy Jenkins videos, or music video machinima".
Edit: Ghost post removed...Edited by robertthebard on May 13, 2020 1:05PM2 -
max_only✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »Yeah so I’ve been playing classic wow and it’s very easy. The one time I died was from an elite bat in the forest respawning on top of me while resting.
The time in between fights is so long.
I see videos of kiting, strafing, keeping out of range, etc. That is absolutely not what a noob will do. A noob will stand still. You may not be using spells but you are using player experience.
I haven’t been convinced. A difference in combat philosophy is the biggest factor to what an individual finds “easy”. There are people, real people, who do not find ESO easy. I meet them, I’m in guilds with them, I do events with them, I see them struggling everywhere I go.
Having played wow classic, wow live, and eso this week I’m still firmly in the belief that wow is the easier game.
By the way, this is a video of PROFESSIONAL WoW players getting their butts kicked in classic.
Enjoyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8unROhEnwY
I watched the first streamer. He’s not paying attention to what he’s doing. Jumping around doesn’t help in classic wow because you can’t cast while moving. He’s fighting 3 enemies above his level. Why not use your first 10 silver to learn knives or bows on a Warrior so you can pull one at a time? Why not fight yellow difficulty mobs, why does he need to fight harder ones?
If that’s how you’re doing it then that is a failure in understanding the game. Use your 2004 mind, not your 2020 mind.
And what prevents ESO players to do the same what WoW players do? So WoW is balanced in a way, that even newbie will use majority of available abilities and won't proceed anywhere without those. In ESO maximum what you need is 1 aoe spammable and 1 self-heal. Just mash this 2 buttons without aim or timings and you'll never die.
If you haven’t seen people struggle in this game then I don’t know what to tell you. I tell the newbies in ESO the exact same thing I’m saying here about WoW. I tell them to keep moving, I tell them to invest in AOE first when skill points are low. I tell them to compare it more to FPS philosophy instead of standard rpg philosophy. Eso is difficult for people who aren’t playing it with the right mindset just as WoW is difficult for people who aren’t playing it with the right mindset. Wow is physically not designed by the creators to be played like ESO and vice versa. Meaning, for one, if you have no spells that hit multiple targets why are you fighting multiple targets?Edited by max_only on May 13, 2020 1:48PM#FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
#OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
|| CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom3 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »Yeah so I’ve been playing classic wow and it’s very easy. The one time I died was from an elite bat in the forest respawning on top of me while resting.
The time in between fights is so long.
I see videos of kiting, strafing, keeping out of range, etc. That is absolutely not what a noob will do. A noob will stand still. You may not be using spells but you are using player experience.
I haven’t been convinced. A difference in combat philosophy is the biggest factor to what an individual finds “easy”. There are people, real people, who do not find ESO easy. I meet them, I’m in guilds with them, I do events with them, I see them struggling everywhere I go.
Having played wow classic, wow live, and eso this week I’m still firmly in the belief that wow is the easier game.
By the way, this is a video of PROFESSIONAL WoW players getting their butts kicked in classic.
Enjoyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8unROhEnwY
I watched the first streamer. He’s not paying attention to what he’s doing. Jumping around doesn’t help in classic wow because you can’t cast while moving. He’s fighting 3 enemies above his level. Why not use your first 10 silver to learn knives or bows on a Warrior so you can pull one at a time? Why not fight yellow difficulty mobs, why does he need to fight harder ones?
If that’s how you’re doing it then that is a failure in understanding the game. Use your 2004 mind, not your 2020 mind.
And what prevents ESO players to do the same what WoW players do? So WoW is balanced in a way, that even newbie will use majority of available abilities and won't proceed anywhere without those. In ESO maximum what you need is 1 aoe spammable and 1 self-heal. Just mash this 2 buttons without aim or timings and you'll never die.
If you haven’t seen people struggle in this game then I don’t know what to tell you. I tell the newbies in ESO the exact same thing I’m saying here about WoW. I tell them to keep moving, I tell them to invest in AOE first when skill points are low. I tell them to compare it more to FPS philosophy instead of standard rpg philosophy. Eso is difficult for people who aren’t playing it with the right mindset just as WoW is difficult for people who aren’t playing it with the right mindset. Wow is physically not designed by the creators to be played like ESO and vice versa. Meaning, for one, if you have no spells that hit multiple targets why are you fighting multiple targets?
WoW was and still is most popular MMORPG in the world. For many it was their first MMORPG and it is labeled as casual MMORPG for casuals etc. And somehow all those dozens of millions of casuals managed to deal with mobs which require active use of abilities to kill them. I'm not saying of level 120 in min-maxed gear, or low-levels with account resources.
I mean "dirty peasants" who keep attacking mobs and dying and running again from respawn and waiting near boss for somebody else to come and help. Closest example is BRAVO squad quest. There is always ton of dead players around and they naturally group up to deal with some things (and even bravo members provided by game often are not enough). And chat is full with help requests and then happy sharing of achievement of quest completion. Imagine, players in MMORPG, doing quest together, having fun and congratulating each other after over-coming the challenge. It is inappropriate, fun is not allowed, temporary death in RPG with legitimized resurrection (not reload! not permadeath, just fictional death) is unbearable! And you need to run from the shrine to get your body back or suffer the penalty! How those millions of casuals were dealing with that?
How Blizzard managed to sell Overwatch to 50+ millions of casuals when that game requires active use of abilities, timings, team tactics etc? Tbh, ESO overland looks to me like some "resort" or "refuge" for actual minority (not majority like people claim in this thread) of gamers, who just want to walk around, read quests, enjoy views and have as least combat as possible in multiplayer game. And there is nothing bad in it, everybody relax in different ways.
But then game should be marketed properly and define on it's Steam page - embark on a journey of story mode of Elder Scrolls second era! Join group content or PVP for combat experience, but if you want only to explore world, no action-RPG gameplay is required from your side.
It's all about honesty. I already wrote in the beginning of this thread - devs are telling about powerful enemies to fight with. WHERE ARE MY POWERFUL ENEMIES IN OPEN WORLD ELDER SCROLL GAME?
Battlegrouns/dungeons/trials is not an open world. I joined this game for open world, but I play instanced group/solo content 95% of the time, because overland is just depressing me with it's lack or reward, pointless combat and 80% of MMO-like repetitive quests. Yeah, in DLC areas it's better. But as story goes, I must complete Cadwell's gold first, and I still can't complete Cadwell's Silver after 2 years and 3k+ hours in game.3 -
godagarah5000✭✭✭well i can tell u why this is too hard i havent experienced anything that made this easy in the slightest...0 -
max_only✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Yeah so I’ve been playing classic wow and it’s very easy. The one time I died was from an elite bat in the forest respawning on top of me while resting.
The time in between fights is so long.
I see videos of kiting, strafing, keeping out of range, etc. That is absolutely not what a noob will do. A noob will stand still. You may not be using spells but you are using player experience.
I haven’t been convinced. A difference in combat philosophy is the biggest factor to what an individual finds “easy”. There are people, real people, who do not find ESO easy. I meet them, I’m in guilds with them, I do events with them, I see them struggling everywhere I go.
Having played wow classic, wow live, and eso this week I’m still firmly in the belief that wow is the easier game.
By the way, this is a video of PROFESSIONAL WoW players getting their butts kicked in classic.
Enjoyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8unROhEnwY
I watched the first streamer. He’s not paying attention to what he’s doing. Jumping around doesn’t help in classic wow because you can’t cast while moving. He’s fighting 3 enemies above his level. Why not use your first 10 silver to learn knives or bows on a Warrior so you can pull one at a time? Why not fight yellow difficulty mobs, why does he need to fight harder ones?
If that’s how you’re doing it then that is a failure in understanding the game. Use your 2004 mind, not your 2020 mind.
And what prevents ESO players to do the same what WoW players do? So WoW is balanced in a way, that even newbie will use majority of available abilities and won't proceed anywhere without those. In ESO maximum what you need is 1 aoe spammable and 1 self-heal. Just mash this 2 buttons without aim or timings and you'll never die.
If you haven’t seen people struggle in this game then I don’t know what to tell you. I tell the newbies in ESO the exact same thing I’m saying here about WoW. I tell them to keep moving, I tell them to invest in AOE first when skill points are low. I tell them to compare it more to FPS philosophy instead of standard rpg philosophy. Eso is difficult for people who aren’t playing it with the right mindset just as WoW is difficult for people who aren’t playing it with the right mindset. Wow is physically not designed by the creators to be played like ESO and vice versa. Meaning, for one, if you have no spells that hit multiple targets why are you fighting multiple targets?
WoW was and still is most popular MMORPG in the world. For many it was their first MMORPG and it is labeled as casual MMORPG for casuals etc. And somehow all those dozens of millions of casuals managed to deal with mobs which require active use of abilities to kill them. I'm not saying of level 120 in min-maxed gear, or low-levels with account resources.
I mean "dirty peasants" who keep attacking mobs and dying and running again from respawn and waiting near boss for somebody else to come and help. Closest example is BRAVO squad quest. There is always ton of dead players around and they naturally group up to deal with some things (and even bravo members provided by game often are not enough). And chat is full with help requests and then happy sharing of achievement of quest completion. Imagine, players in MMORPG, doing quest together, having fun and congratulating each other after over-coming the challenge. It is inappropriate, fun is not allowed, temporary death in RPG with legitimized resurrection (not reload! not permadeath, just fictional death) is unbearable! And you need to run from the shrine to get your body back or suffer the penalty! How those millions of casuals were dealing with that?
How Blizzard managed to sell Overwatch to 50+ millions of casuals when that game requires active use of abilities, timings, team tactics etc? Tbh, ESO overland looks to me like some "resort" or "refuge" for actual minority (not majority like people claim in this thread) of gamers, who just want to walk around, read quests, enjoy views and have as least combat as possible in multiplayer game. And there is nothing bad in it, everybody relax in different ways.
But then game should be marketed properly and define on it's Steam page - embark on a journey of story mode of Elder Scrolls second era! Join group content or PVP for combat experience, but if you want only to explore world, no action-RPG gameplay is required from your side.
It's all about honesty. I already wrote in the beginning of this thread - devs are telling about powerful enemies to fight with. WHERE ARE MY POWERFUL ENEMIES IN OPEN WORLD ELDER SCROLL GAME?
Battlegrouns/dungeons/trials is not an open world. I joined this game for open world, but I play instanced group/solo content 95% of the time, because overland is just depressing me with it's lack or reward, pointless combat and 80% of MMO-like repetitive quests. Yeah, in DLC areas it's better. But as story goes, I must complete Cadwell's gold first, and I still can't complete Cadwell's Silver after 2 years and 3k+ hours in game.
Okay it’s too easy for you. Got it.
I don’t know what to say. Zos has the data. If the data proves people want “difficulty” in whatever form that means to you, then I guarantee the money counters are going to push for difficulty. We shall see won’t we.#FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
#OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
|| CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom0 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Yeah so I’ve been playing classic wow and it’s very easy. The one time I died was from an elite bat in the forest respawning on top of me while resting.
The time in between fights is so long.
I see videos of kiting, strafing, keeping out of range, etc. That is absolutely not what a noob will do. A noob will stand still. You may not be using spells but you are using player experience.
I haven’t been convinced. A difference in combat philosophy is the biggest factor to what an individual finds “easy”. There are people, real people, who do not find ESO easy. I meet them, I’m in guilds with them, I do events with them, I see them struggling everywhere I go.
Having played wow classic, wow live, and eso this week I’m still firmly in the belief that wow is the easier game.
By the way, this is a video of PROFESSIONAL WoW players getting their butts kicked in classic.
Enjoyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8unROhEnwY
I watched the first streamer. He’s not paying attention to what he’s doing. Jumping around doesn’t help in classic wow because you can’t cast while moving. He’s fighting 3 enemies above his level. Why not use your first 10 silver to learn knives or bows on a Warrior so you can pull one at a time? Why not fight yellow difficulty mobs, why does he need to fight harder ones?
If that’s how you’re doing it then that is a failure in understanding the game. Use your 2004 mind, not your 2020 mind.
And what prevents ESO players to do the same what WoW players do? So WoW is balanced in a way, that even newbie will use majority of available abilities and won't proceed anywhere without those. In ESO maximum what you need is 1 aoe spammable and 1 self-heal. Just mash this 2 buttons without aim or timings and you'll never die.
If you haven’t seen people struggle in this game then I don’t know what to tell you. I tell the newbies in ESO the exact same thing I’m saying here about WoW. I tell them to keep moving, I tell them to invest in AOE first when skill points are low. I tell them to compare it more to FPS philosophy instead of standard rpg philosophy. Eso is difficult for people who aren’t playing it with the right mindset just as WoW is difficult for people who aren’t playing it with the right mindset. Wow is physically not designed by the creators to be played like ESO and vice versa. Meaning, for one, if you have no spells that hit multiple targets why are you fighting multiple targets?
WoW was and still is most popular MMORPG in the world. For many it was their first MMORPG and it is labeled as casual MMORPG for casuals etc. And somehow all those dozens of millions of casuals managed to deal with mobs which require active use of abilities to kill them. I'm not saying of level 120 in min-maxed gear, or low-levels with account resources.
I mean "dirty peasants" who keep attacking mobs and dying and running again from respawn and waiting near boss for somebody else to come and help. Closest example is BRAVO squad quest. There is always ton of dead players around and they naturally group up to deal with some things (and even bravo members provided by game often are not enough). And chat is full with help requests and then happy sharing of achievement of quest completion. Imagine, players in MMORPG, doing quest together, having fun and congratulating each other after over-coming the challenge. It is inappropriate, fun is not allowed, temporary death in RPG with legitimized resurrection (not reload! not permadeath, just fictional death) is unbearable! And you need to run from the shrine to get your body back or suffer the penalty! How those millions of casuals were dealing with that?
How Blizzard managed to sell Overwatch to 50+ millions of casuals when that game requires active use of abilities, timings, team tactics etc? Tbh, ESO overland looks to me like some "resort" or "refuge" for actual minority (not majority like people claim in this thread) of gamers, who just want to walk around, read quests, enjoy views and have as least combat as possible in multiplayer game. And there is nothing bad in it, everybody relax in different ways.
But then game should be marketed properly and define on it's Steam page - embark on a journey of story mode of Elder Scrolls second era! Join group content or PVP for combat experience, but if you want only to explore world, no action-RPG gameplay is required from your side.
It's all about honesty. I already wrote in the beginning of this thread - devs are telling about powerful enemies to fight with. WHERE ARE MY POWERFUL ENEMIES IN OPEN WORLD ELDER SCROLL GAME?
Battlegrouns/dungeons/trials is not an open world. I joined this game for open world, but I play instanced group/solo content 95% of the time, because overland is just depressing me with it's lack or reward, pointless combat and 80% of MMO-like repetitive quests. Yeah, in DLC areas it's better. But as story goes, I must complete Cadwell's gold first, and I still can't complete Cadwell's Silver after 2 years and 3k+ hours in game.
Okay it’s too easy for you. Got it.
I don’t know what to say. Zos has the data. If the data proves people want “difficulty” in whatever form that means to you, then I guarantee the money counters are going to push for difficulty. We shall see won’t we.
It's not easy. It is simply pointless. There are endlessly respawning groups of 3 mobs all over the Tamriel who do you no damage, their killing doesn't give any reward. If you kill them they will respawn almost instantly as soon as other players enters area, and if you ignore them they follow you half the map just to snare you and stuck in combat. It is impossible to enjoy the game when that threesome is always around, blocking view with their ugly low-poly models, breaking immersion with their respawning in front of you, useless XP reward, stuck in combat statuses, snare spam... it's like fighting with windmills.
Yeah, I finally understood - I feel myself like Don Quixote in overland. You just spend your free time to get nothing. When you pug dungeon or pvp you get lulz, if it is hard duel or vet trial you are challenged and then feel relaxed after you deal with it, when you play story-driven game you enjoy the art and immersion. In ESO overland (first of all base game), if you are CP-capped and have millions of gold, you are just wasting time. When I'm interested in TES lore, I just open UESP on mobile and read it in convenient pose. That is way more entertaining then to nuke same pointless groups of 3 idiots over and over for hours for a small portion of lore in the quest end.5 -
Dahveed✭✭✭✭✭
✭robertthebard wrote: »Yeah so I’ve been playing classic wow and it’s very easy. The one time I died was from an elite bat in the forest respawning on top of me while resting.
The time in between fights is so long.
I see videos of kiting, strafing, keeping out of range, etc. That is absolutely not what a noob will do. A noob will stand still. You may not be using spells but you are using player experience.
I haven’t been convinced. A difference in combat philosophy is the biggest factor to what an individual finds “easy”. There are people, real people, who do not find ESO easy. I meet them, I’m in guilds with them, I do events with them, I see them struggling everywhere I go.
Having played wow classic, wow live, and eso this week I’m still firmly in the belief that wow is the easier game.
By the way, this is a video of PROFESSIONAL WoW players getting their butts kicked in classic.
Enjoyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8unROhEnwY
I watched the first streamer. He’s not paying attention to what he’s doing. Jumping around doesn’t help in classic wow because you can’t cast while moving. He’s fighting 3 enemies above his level. Why not use your first 10 silver to learn knives or bows on a Warrior so you can pull one at a time? Why not fight yellow difficulty mobs, why does he need to fight harder ones?
If that’s how you’re doing it then that is a failure in understanding the game. Use your 2004 mind, not your 2020 mind.
He’s fighting 3 enemies above his level.
Literally the very first death in the entire video is against a single same-level murloc.
Which doesn't support "Professional that knows what he's doing", but more supports "noob". You know, the same thing you'd suggest about people dying here in overland content. I'd expect that a good player, or a professional, wouldn't have this problem, yes? I would expect that they knew what they were doing enough to be able to survive a trash mob, but that's not what we see. It doesn't make me go "Oh hey, our game needs to be that hard", it makes me go "Yep, WoW players are best at Leeroy Jenkins videos, or music video machinima".
Edit: Ghost post removed...
You're joking, right?
[snip]
[ edited for Rude and Insulting Comments]Edited by ZOS_RogerJ on May 14, 2020 3:00PM1 -
Everest_Lionheart✭✭✭✭✭
✭Everest_Lionheart wrote: »Everest_Lionheart wrote: »
That’s the real issue here. The AI is lacking the intelligence part!
this right here is the core of the problem for sure. that's why all these suggestions about individual player toggle - are NOT going to work. if you only change the health and damage (both taken and given) of a player and keep everything else the same? the game is NOT going to get harder, things will just take a little longer to die.
couple of times, people brought up games with difficulty sliders, world tiers, you name it.
now, I cannot speak for every single game, but since I probably spend more time in Division 2 than ESO at the moment - i can speak for that. AI changes on higher difficulties. mobs become more aggressive, they notice you faster, they flank you better, their aim is stronger, they get special ammo that can stun you or stick you in place etc etc. you just get more mobs spawning sometimes which ALSO changes tactics. MECHANICS change. its not just mobs turning into bullet sponges. not unlike normal vs vet vs vet HM mechanics in ESO.
this is why people here can bring up how easy it was for them to defeat some more beefed up mob in ESO, while posting 12 minute videos of them meleeing a troll or something. scaling down a player while keeping a world the same - is just going to turn most mobs into these trolls. changing mechanics in the world may make it too difficult for new players to figure out the game before getting discouraged and moving on to something they enjoy more.
this is why I personaly will continue supporting separate instances with higher difficulties while fighting adjustments to existing overworld. because its the ONLY way to keep it fair for new players, while also giving veteran players interested in challenge - actual challenge
I would say make the starter islands super basic like the game is now and ramp up the difficulty (mechanics) through each zone. By the second to last zone difficulty is at its max level. So zones are gated a bit but when you’ve hit Alik’r, Eastmarch or Malab Tor the game is as hard as it gets. And have all DLC start at the hardest level. This is kind of how it is already though except the only true watered down zones are the first island in AD and the first 2 zones of DC and EP. DLC zones are already harder introducing more robust enemies early and more often.
So to implement a full overhaul of game mechanics I would leave the starter zones as is. Have the second zones introduce More mobs. 3rd zone buff HP and atk of the enemies slightly. 4th zone speed up mechanics with shorter channel and wind up times for enemies. And finally 5th zone AI that learns how to block, interrupt and exploit players that make mistakes.
Now when I say buff I don’t mean anything huge, just enough so that they can’t be out DPSed. Maybe a DPS cap is in order as well per zone. They cap penetration, speed and other stats why not cap DPS as well. Again zone specific with no caps for group content or maelstrom arena.
Again it’s something I would implement across the board globally. No opt in, no toggle just a buff to overall mechanics. Maybe the game can’t handle this kind of change, but I would love to see people freak out the minute their DPS gets capped! Nobody needs to do 90K in overland anyway. Hell you don’t even need 10K to roll through overland without impunity as it is now.
And if it turns out to be too hard for new players still just give them a bigger assist than what is currently in place now.
1. DLC's nowadays, especially bigger "expansion" ones are sold as starting areas. they can already be rougher then original starting areas on new players..
2. as pointed out above - zones being slightly more difficult in story progression order - is already a thing.
3. most people will scream bloody murder if you cap their dps in any way. just look at pts forums with spillover to general, whenever any sort of nerf is proposed.
4. unless I am misunderstanding - you are proposing to change the base game, rather then add separate veteran instances. NO. absolutely NO. the skill gap is so wide that in order to make this challenging for experienced players, they would have to making unplayable for the newbies. even if people somehow agree having their dps to be capped.
Maybe I wasn’t being clear enough in my explanation. Indeed I am saying to boost the base game but in larger increments than it is currently. As it stands any actual skill or difficulty bump is barely there outside of the starting island to the second zone and base content to DLC zones. If the base game challenged players more often and introduced tougher mechanics as they progressed the skill gap would certainly narrow. The bumps need to be more frequent and more severe. As it stands now the game is way too easy in overland once you get a few levels or a little game play experience under your belt.
Players aren’t really pushed past about level 20-25. I beat the Elsweyr chapter on my first play through with no knowledge or skill on a random balanced build that I thought was cool at level 22. I had to battle a bit in a few situation but beat Zumong Phoom with no trouble on the first try. Only the Mulaanmir fight gave me any trouble because it took me a couple tries to get all the mechanics what he ate simple but I was rushing them and overthinking, as soon as I slowed down and paid more attention the fight was simple.
Seeing how Northern Elsweyr is a DLC zone and one of the tougher zones in the game it would seem to me like the entire game could use some kind of boost. I went back and did the main story and first alliance after doing Elsweyr first and nothing was even able to scratch me because I was already too strong. Even the boss fights were easy with the exception of world bosses. That’s why I think the game needs a rework across the board.
Now it could use some veteran instances for things like Delves or public dungeons but those instances should be solo mode only with the higher difficulty. Those things are laughably easy right now even when run solo. With delves basically overland with a minor boss and public dungeons being extra large mobs with double strength delve bosses.
The DPS nerf idea I have would specifically apply to overland content, delves or public dungeons. Again who needs 30K, 45K, 60K or 90K to clear this kind of stuff? 15K is overkill for most of it outside of a few world bosses. Even then with smart strategy 15 DPS versus 60K would serve only to extend the fight a few minutes. But it does give the boss a chance to fire off a few mechanics rather than DPSing right through them. It also give a player a challenge having to work through some mechanics more than once or twice.
But none of that matters if the AI is still going to telegraph heavy attacks and abilities for 3 seconds. Or retreat to perform a heavy attack or do a jump flip over you while under the influence of dots. Or disengage and run away completely after you kite them over to another group of enemies.3 -
tomofhyrule✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I feel like one of the things people say most on here - "we need a hardmode for overland like hardmode in dungeons!" - is just not possible in any way, shape, or form.
Granted, I haven't done any vet dungeons yet, but I've been reading the mechanics since I want to eventually get to that level. And from what it seems, 'hardmode' in a dungeon doesn't just buff the boss, but it also gives them new mechanics.
In Skyrim and other TES games, the difficulty slider is a hidden buff enemy/debuff self. It's harder insofar as it turns the enemies into sponges and you take more damage, so you need to be more clever about avoiding damage when you're needing to deal more. But yeah, it really just makes the same fight take longer. People understandably are hesitant to accept a self-debuff, and the standard "go naked!" argument is just the strawman version of that.
But expecting ZOS to go back to all zones and redo the mechanics for every single mob, WB, quest boss, etc. is borderline delusional. They don't have the resources or time (and it won't be cost effective) to basically remake the entire game from scratch, which is almost what it would take. Especially to retune zones into what they were before One Tamriel, which they changed specifically since it was too hard and people wanted to have the freedom to go wherever. I suppose they could put a monor tune to the AI, but even then I don't know how much work that would be, and I can't see two players in the same zone seeing two different levels of AI for the same mob.
I have no problem with the idea of an optional "debuff myself and buff enemies" box. But that will just make for spongy enemies, and people are unsatisfied with that. I could live with the idea of a separate "buffed enemy" instance. But then that would spread out the playerbase more than it is and may make it harder for the 'normal' instance to get help for things that they need help with like getting WBs done with so few people - see currently trying to get any of Vvardenfell's WBs (it's not like people aren't in zone, they're all in Vivec crafting, but nobody wants to answer a "/z need help at WB") or doing any of NElsweyr's dragons besides the one that spawns right by the wayshrine (and NElsweyr dragons need much larger groups to take down than the ones in SElsweyr).
The other hot topic is the rewards for a 'hardmode.' If it's optional and has no rewards, then people would only do it for the challenge - and there may not be as many of those people as we think. A lot of people who just want to go farming for gear or mats probably don't want to have to deal with longer, more annoying fights. If there is a reward, that begs the question of whether the rewards would be an unwritten 'mandatory' rule for people to do. Look at dungeons: you can't be considered a high-level player without having a Monster set, and those drop from vet dungeons only. So it's mandatory to run vet dungeons to get the gear you need. Likewise, if we're putting new gear in a 'vet overland,' is that then making 'vet overland' mandatory? Remember, we had that - Craglorn was vet overland and was the only place you could get Nirncrux. We also had vet overlan before One Tamriel where you could only get the crafting mats above level 50 from vet overland. Both got removed for some reason...
I'll also offer the idea that, as someone who mains a tank and is just now around 100CP, it takes longer to take down mobs than I'd like. I'm trying to work on my DPS, but ESO is really set for tanks to take hits and not really give them out. As such, I'm not seeing much of a problem with overland content. I suppose I could respec to a DPS when questing which would make it easier, but I prefer to play a tanky build and I've accepted low DPS as a consequence. We know from the dungeon queues that DPS is significantly more popular than other builds, and endgame players doing above 40k DPS easily will absolutely smoke overland content. So is this 'stupid-easy overland' a problem that DPS are seeing more acutely than support roles, simply because they're designed to kill things quickly?
The one thing I'd love to see though would be for the zone quest boss locations to be instanced, though. I don't need some DPS monster to come in and 'help' me take down the big enemy for a zone. Yeah, I'm not doing it as fast as you could, but that doesn't mean I need help taking this story boss down.1 -
Moose_Scout✭✭✭Just here to pop-in and say that the dungeons are in a great place difficulty wise but that the over-world and delves could be a little more difficult with a small and random chance of dropping good gear so there is an actual reason to fight instead of just running through and rushing everything!
"What a Grand and Intoxicating Innocence"3 -
ZOS_ConnorGmodGreetings all,
Upon review, we notice there are many posts that are straying from the initial discussion. We ask that all comments from here remain on topic and continue to be kept civil and constructive.
Regards,
Connor0 -
Glurin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭StormeReigns wrote: »Yeah so I’ve been playing classic wow and it’s very easy. The one time I died was from an elite bat in the forest respawning on top of me while resting.
The time in between fights is so long.
I see videos of kiting, strafing, keeping out of range, etc. That is absolutely not what a noob will do. A noob will stand still. You may not be using spells but you are using player experience.
I haven’t been convinced. A difference in combat philosophy is the biggest factor to what an individual finds “easy”. There are people, real people, who do not find ESO easy. I meet them, I’m in guilds with them, I do events with them, I see them struggling everywhere I go.
Having played wow classic, wow live, and eso this week I’m still firmly in the belief that wow is the easier game.
By the way, this is a video of PROFESSIONAL WoW players getting their butts kicked in classic.
Enjoyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8unROhEnwYhttps://youtu.be/npnCYHKKh5c
Is this supposed to prove anything? It shows an end-game geared-to-the-*** warrior doing instance farming and has literally nothing to do with anything discussed in this thread. You might as well have posted a video of a pigeon laying an egg for the same level of "Gotcha!".
Leveling toons in WoW classic overworld is hard.... Either that, or some of the best WoW players on the entire planet, who play the game for a living, are all suddenly terrible at it.
Or they were always terrible at it, but because of all the power creep and whatnot, nobody noticed. Kinda falls in line with what I've been saying for a long time now. If you're doing gargantuan amounts of damage so everything dies in seconds, real skill falls by the wayside. By the time I left WoW, it seemed like most dungeon groups didn't even know that CC was a thing.
There you guys go talking about dungeons again. You're in the wrong thread.
Looks to me more like you saw the word "dungeons" and completely glossed over the reason it was there. If some of the most basic aspects of combat are foreign concepts to dungeon groups, what does that say about the overland content?Edited by Glurin on May 13, 2020 8:50PM"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..."1 -
robertthebard✭✭✭✭✭robertthebard wrote: »Yeah so I’ve been playing classic wow and it’s very easy. The one time I died was from an elite bat in the forest respawning on top of me while resting.
The time in between fights is so long.
I see videos of kiting, strafing, keeping out of range, etc. That is absolutely not what a noob will do. A noob will stand still. You may not be using spells but you are using player experience.
I haven’t been convinced. A difference in combat philosophy is the biggest factor to what an individual finds “easy”. There are people, real people, who do not find ESO easy. I meet them, I’m in guilds with them, I do events with them, I see them struggling everywhere I go.
Having played wow classic, wow live, and eso this week I’m still firmly in the belief that wow is the easier game.
By the way, this is a video of PROFESSIONAL WoW players getting their butts kicked in classic.
Enjoyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8unROhEnwY
I watched the first streamer. He’s not paying attention to what he’s doing. Jumping around doesn’t help in classic wow because you can’t cast while moving. He’s fighting 3 enemies above his level. Why not use your first 10 silver to learn knives or bows on a Warrior so you can pull one at a time? Why not fight yellow difficulty mobs, why does he need to fight harder ones?
If that’s how you’re doing it then that is a failure in understanding the game. Use your 2004 mind, not your 2020 mind.
He’s fighting 3 enemies above his level.
Literally the very first death in the entire video is against a single same-level murloc.
Which doesn't support "Professional that knows what he's doing", but more supports "noob". You know, the same thing you'd suggest about people dying here in overland content. I'd expect that a good player, or a professional, wouldn't have this problem, yes? I would expect that they knew what they were doing enough to be able to survive a trash mob, but that's not what we see. It doesn't make me go "Oh hey, our game needs to be that hard", it makes me go "Yep, WoW players are best at Leeroy Jenkins videos, or music video machinima".
Edit: Ghost post removed...
You're joking, right?
You're saying Asmongold is a noob.
We can now stop taking you seriously forever.
I didn't stop there. I have a very low opinion of WoW in general, mainly due to it's population infesting other MMO forums. Lots of years of experience, and some really hilarious interactions over the years. I think it's a pretty fair commentary when the best thing to come out of WoW is this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hooKVstzbz0 0 -
max_only✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭robertthebard wrote: »Yeah so I’ve been playing classic wow and it’s very easy. The one time I died was from an elite bat in the forest respawning on top of me while resting.
The time in between fights is so long.
I see videos of kiting, strafing, keeping out of range, etc. That is absolutely not what a noob will do. A noob will stand still. You may not be using spells but you are using player experience.
I haven’t been convinced. A difference in combat philosophy is the biggest factor to what an individual finds “easy”. There are people, real people, who do not find ESO easy. I meet them, I’m in guilds with them, I do events with them, I see them struggling everywhere I go.
Having played wow classic, wow live, and eso this week I’m still firmly in the belief that wow is the easier game.
By the way, this is a video of PROFESSIONAL WoW players getting their butts kicked in classic.
Enjoyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8unROhEnwY
I watched the first streamer. He’s not paying attention to what he’s doing. Jumping around doesn’t help in classic wow because you can’t cast while moving. He’s fighting 3 enemies above his level. Why not use your first 10 silver to learn knives or bows on a Warrior so you can pull one at a time? Why not fight yellow difficulty mobs, why does he need to fight harder ones?
If that’s how you’re doing it then that is a failure in understanding the game. Use your 2004 mind, not your 2020 mind.
He’s fighting 3 enemies above his level.
Literally the very first death in the entire video is against a single same-level murloc.
Which doesn't support "Professional that knows what he's doing", but more supports "noob". You know, the same thing you'd suggest about people dying here in overland content. I'd expect that a good player, or a professional, wouldn't have this problem, yes? I would expect that they knew what they were doing enough to be able to survive a trash mob, but that's not what we see. It doesn't make me go "Oh hey, our game needs to be that hard", it makes me go "Yep, WoW players are best at Leeroy Jenkins videos, or music video machinima".
Edit: Ghost post removed...
You're joking, right?
You're saying Asmongold is a noob.
We can now stop taking you seriously forever.
Or he’s failing to play the game properly on purpose for the lulz and the likes.#FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
#OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
|| CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom0 -
Dahveed✭✭✭✭✭
✭robertthebard wrote: »Yeah so I’ve been playing classic wow and it’s very easy. The one time I died was from an elite bat in the forest respawning on top of me while resting.
The time in between fights is so long.
I see videos of kiting, strafing, keeping out of range, etc. That is absolutely not what a noob will do. A noob will stand still. You may not be using spells but you are using player experience.
I haven’t been convinced. A difference in combat philosophy is the biggest factor to what an individual finds “easy”. There are people, real people, who do not find ESO easy. I meet them, I’m in guilds with them, I do events with them, I see them struggling everywhere I go.
Having played wow classic, wow live, and eso this week I’m still firmly in the belief that wow is the easier game.
By the way, this is a video of PROFESSIONAL WoW players getting their butts kicked in classic.
Enjoyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8unROhEnwY
I watched the first streamer. He’s not paying attention to what he’s doing. Jumping around doesn’t help in classic wow because you can’t cast while moving. He’s fighting 3 enemies above his level. Why not use your first 10 silver to learn knives or bows on a Warrior so you can pull one at a time? Why not fight yellow difficulty mobs, why does he need to fight harder ones?
If that’s how you’re doing it then that is a failure in understanding the game. Use your 2004 mind, not your 2020 mind.
He’s fighting 3 enemies above his level.
Literally the very first death in the entire video is against a single same-level murloc.
Which doesn't support "Professional that knows what he's doing", but more supports "noob". You know, the same thing you'd suggest about people dying here in overland content. I'd expect that a good player, or a professional, wouldn't have this problem, yes? I would expect that they knew what they were doing enough to be able to survive a trash mob, but that's not what we see. It doesn't make me go "Oh hey, our game needs to be that hard", it makes me go "Yep, WoW players are best at Leeroy Jenkins videos, or music video machinima".
Edit: Ghost post removed...
You're joking, right?
You're saying Asmongold is a noob.
We can now stop taking you seriously forever.
Or he’s failing to play the game properly on purpose for the lulz and the likes.
Right, another liar I suppose, just like me. Anyone who disagrees with you is faking or lying. All those deaths in the video I posted were a bunch of fakers, that's it!
Keep moving the goalposts, guys. That way you'll never be wrong.
This will be my last post on that topic, we have a moderator telling us to knock it off now.
The goalposts just keep moving again and again in this thread every time we score a point.
Here's a quick recap of this:
The original ESO argument. This thread started with "ESO isn't too easy, it's fine", so people share their experiences about absolutely facerolling everything.
That isn't enough though, it's anecdotal (understandable), so you talk about new players, progression, experience etc. all being factors. Fair enough I guess.
Then people suggest that we could make a simple, optional debuff difficulty slider which would only affect me to actually make NPCs deal damage. But that gets shot down too because "oh that's artificial", as though nothing would change. (Like not being able to stand there naked doing literally nothing against an NPC would be irrelevant.) Dealing less damage and taking more damage would be a VAST improvement and make decisions much more important, but nope, you guys can't have that!
To show what a joke a lot of enemies can be in this game, and to show why we'd need them to deal more damage, I show my naked level 4 being literally invincible as he sits there doing nothing being attacked forever, and forever staying at 100% health, until a random player I didn't know passed by and ended that NPC in one second.
But then you guys say that doesn't count because reasons! I have to go fight different NPCs! The goalpost has moved.
I then scour the entire zone for like 10 minutes to find an elite. I then make a new video showing my naked, weaponless level 4 killing it by holding down the left arrow key and spamming 1 button, finishing the fight at 100%. Both times when that "elite" NPC actually hits me with an ability, the damage is utterly negligible (like 5% damage to my naked NPC who autoheals to full within 2 seconds).
But that doesn't count either because reasons! I cheesed the fight, I used my "skill and experience!" That's right, by holding down the "left" directional arrow key for the entire fight, it shows what a good player I am. (Also nevermind the fact that an "elite" npc couldn't even scratch my naked character the times he did connect).
The goalpost moves again.
So we try to give an example of another MMORPG that actually had a challenging overworld, WoW classic. "That's easy too" they say!
People here saying that WoW classic overworld is easy (or easier than current ESO overworld) either haven't ever played WoW classic, or are just delusional because they really, really want to win this argument and simply will not admit it. These are the same people that keep moving the goalposts every time I counter their arguments.
It goes from "WoW classic was easy", to "WoW classic was easy if you knew what you were doing", to "WoW classic was easy and people who die in WoW classic are just bad", to "yeah ok even streamer veteran pro players die, but that's because they are dying on purpose!", or "Yeah this comparison isn't even fair, because WoW classic was a different system and is old" or something.
The goalpost just keeps moving every time. No matter WHAT kind of proof or argument is provided, the goalpost moves further and further back, giving proponents of greater challenge an impossible burden of proof.
Okay, that's it. I'm done.
(For real, this time.)
4 -
Ghnami✭✭✭robertthebard wrote: »Yeah so I’ve been playing classic wow and it’s very easy. The one time I died was from an elite bat in the forest respawning on top of me while resting.
The time in between fights is so long.
I see videos of kiting, strafing, keeping out of range, etc. That is absolutely not what a noob will do. A noob will stand still. You may not be using spells but you are using player experience.
I haven’t been convinced. A difference in combat philosophy is the biggest factor to what an individual finds “easy”. There are people, real people, who do not find ESO easy. I meet them, I’m in guilds with them, I do events with them, I see them struggling everywhere I go.
Having played wow classic, wow live, and eso this week I’m still firmly in the belief that wow is the easier game.
By the way, this is a video of PROFESSIONAL WoW players getting their butts kicked in classic.
Enjoyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8unROhEnwY
I watched the first streamer. He’s not paying attention to what he’s doing. Jumping around doesn’t help in classic wow because you can’t cast while moving. He’s fighting 3 enemies above his level. Why not use your first 10 silver to learn knives or bows on a Warrior so you can pull one at a time? Why not fight yellow difficulty mobs, why does he need to fight harder ones?
If that’s how you’re doing it then that is a failure in understanding the game. Use your 2004 mind, not your 2020 mind.
He’s fighting 3 enemies above his level.
Literally the very first death in the entire video is against a single same-level murloc.
Which doesn't support "Professional that knows what he's doing", but more supports "noob". You know, the same thing you'd suggest about people dying here in overland content. I'd expect that a good player, or a professional, wouldn't have this problem, yes? I would expect that they knew what they were doing enough to be able to survive a trash mob, but that's not what we see. It doesn't make me go "Oh hey, our game needs to be that hard", it makes me go "Yep, WoW players are best at Leeroy Jenkins videos, or music video machinima".
Edit: Ghost post removed...
You're joking, right?
You're saying Asmongold is a noob.
We can now stop taking you seriously forever.
Or he’s failing to play the game properly on purpose for the lulz and the likes.
Right, another liar I suppose, just like me. Anyone who disagrees with you is faking or lying. All those deaths in the video I posted were a bunch of fakers, that's it!
Keep moving the goalposts, guys. That way you'll never be wrong.
This will be my last post on that topic, we have a moderator telling us to knock it off now.
The goalposts just keep moving again and again in this thread every time we score a point.
Here's a quick recap of this:
The original ESO argument. This thread started with "ESO isn't too easy, it's fine", so people share their experiences about absolutely facerolling everything.
That isn't enough though, it's anecdotal (understandable), so you talk about new players, progression, experience etc. all being factors. Fair enough I guess.
Then people suggest that we could make a simple, optional debuff difficulty slider which would only affect me to actually make NPCs deal damage. But that gets shot down too because "oh that's artificial", as though nothing would change. (Like not being able to stand there naked doing literally nothing against an NPC would be irrelevant.) Dealing less damage and taking more damage would be a VAST improvement and make decisions much more important, but nope, you guys can't have that!
To show what a joke a lot of enemies can be in this game, and to show why we'd need them to deal more damage, I show my naked level 4 being literally invincible as he sits there doing nothing being attacked forever, and forever staying at 100% health, until a random player I didn't know passed by and ended that NPC in one second.
But then you guys say that doesn't count because reasons! I have to go fight different NPCs! The goalpost has moved.
I then scour the entire zone for like 10 minutes to find an elite. I then make a new video showing my naked, weaponless level 4 killing it by holding down the left arrow key and spamming 1 button, finishing the fight at 100%. Both times when that "elite" NPC actually hits me with an ability, the damage is utterly negligible (like 5% damage to my naked NPC who autoheals to full within 2 seconds).
But that doesn't count either because reasons! I cheesed the fight, I used my "skill and experience!" That's right, by holding down the "left" directional arrow key for the entire fight, it shows what a good player I am. (Also nevermind the fact that an "elite" npc couldn't even scratch my naked character the times he did connect).
The goalpost moves again.
So we try to give an example of another MMORPG that actually had a challenging overworld, WoW classic. "That's easy too" they say!
People here saying that WoW classic overworld is easy (or easier than current ESO overworld) either haven't ever played WoW classic, or are just delusional because they really, really want to win this argument and simply will not admit it. These are the same people that keep moving the goalposts every time I counter their arguments.
It goes from "WoW classic was easy", to "WoW classic was easy if you knew what you were doing", to "WoW classic was easy and people who die in WoW classic are just bad", to "yeah ok even streamer veteran pro players die, but that's because they are dying on purpose!", or "Yeah this comparison isn't even fair, because WoW classic was a different system and is old" or something.
The goalpost just keeps moving every time. No matter WHAT kind of proof or argument is provided, the goalpost moves further and further back, giving proponents of greater challenge an impossible burden of proof.
Okay, that's it. I'm done.
(For real, this time.)
K you need to do a naked level 50 cp160+ char, because then the game actually treats you like naked and doesn't inject you with tons of stats to simulate a lower level char being at that level. I guarantee a naked level 50cp160 is going to have a TOUGH time doing what your level 4 did.0 -
Dahveed✭✭✭✭✭
✭robertthebard wrote: »Yeah so I’ve been playing classic wow and it’s very easy. The one time I died was from an elite bat in the forest respawning on top of me while resting.
The time in between fights is so long.
I see videos of kiting, strafing, keeping out of range, etc. That is absolutely not what a noob will do. A noob will stand still. You may not be using spells but you are using player experience.
I haven’t been convinced. A difference in combat philosophy is the biggest factor to what an individual finds “easy”. There are people, real people, who do not find ESO easy. I meet them, I’m in guilds with them, I do events with them, I see them struggling everywhere I go.
Having played wow classic, wow live, and eso this week I’m still firmly in the belief that wow is the easier game.
By the way, this is a video of PROFESSIONAL WoW players getting their butts kicked in classic.
Enjoyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8unROhEnwY
I watched the first streamer. He’s not paying attention to what he’s doing. Jumping around doesn’t help in classic wow because you can’t cast while moving. He’s fighting 3 enemies above his level. Why not use your first 10 silver to learn knives or bows on a Warrior so you can pull one at a time? Why not fight yellow difficulty mobs, why does he need to fight harder ones?
If that’s how you’re doing it then that is a failure in understanding the game. Use your 2004 mind, not your 2020 mind.
He’s fighting 3 enemies above his level.
Literally the very first death in the entire video is against a single same-level murloc.
Which doesn't support "Professional that knows what he's doing", but more supports "noob". You know, the same thing you'd suggest about people dying here in overland content. I'd expect that a good player, or a professional, wouldn't have this problem, yes? I would expect that they knew what they were doing enough to be able to survive a trash mob, but that's not what we see. It doesn't make me go "Oh hey, our game needs to be that hard", it makes me go "Yep, WoW players are best at Leeroy Jenkins videos, or music video machinima".
Edit: Ghost post removed...
You're joking, right?
You're saying Asmongold is a noob.
We can now stop taking you seriously forever.
Or he’s failing to play the game properly on purpose for the lulz and the likes.
Right, another liar I suppose, just like me. Anyone who disagrees with you is faking or lying. All those deaths in the video I posted were a bunch of fakers, that's it!
Keep moving the goalposts, guys. That way you'll never be wrong.
This will be my last post on that topic, we have a moderator telling us to knock it off now.
The goalposts just keep moving again and again in this thread every time we score a point.
Here's a quick recap of this:
The original ESO argument. This thread started with "ESO isn't too easy, it's fine", so people share their experiences about absolutely facerolling everything.
That isn't enough though, it's anecdotal (understandable), so you talk about new players, progression, experience etc. all being factors. Fair enough I guess.
Then people suggest that we could make a simple, optional debuff difficulty slider which would only affect me to actually make NPCs deal damage. But that gets shot down too because "oh that's artificial", as though nothing would change. (Like not being able to stand there naked doing literally nothing against an NPC would be irrelevant.) Dealing less damage and taking more damage would be a VAST improvement and make decisions much more important, but nope, you guys can't have that!
To show what a joke a lot of enemies can be in this game, and to show why we'd need them to deal more damage, I show my naked level 4 being literally invincible as he sits there doing nothing being attacked forever, and forever staying at 100% health, until a random player I didn't know passed by and ended that NPC in one second.
But then you guys say that doesn't count because reasons! I have to go fight different NPCs! The goalpost has moved.
I then scour the entire zone for like 10 minutes to find an elite. I then make a new video showing my naked, weaponless level 4 killing it by holding down the left arrow key and spamming 1 button, finishing the fight at 100%. Both times when that "elite" NPC actually hits me with an ability, the damage is utterly negligible (like 5% damage to my naked NPC who autoheals to full within 2 seconds).
But that doesn't count either because reasons! I cheesed the fight, I used my "skill and experience!" That's right, by holding down the "left" directional arrow key for the entire fight, it shows what a good player I am. (Also nevermind the fact that an "elite" npc couldn't even scratch my naked character the times he did connect).
The goalpost moves again.
So we try to give an example of another MMORPG that actually had a challenging overworld, WoW classic. "That's easy too" they say!
People here saying that WoW classic overworld is easy (or easier than current ESO overworld) either haven't ever played WoW classic, or are just delusional because they really, really want to win this argument and simply will not admit it. These are the same people that keep moving the goalposts every time I counter their arguments.
It goes from "WoW classic was easy", to "WoW classic was easy if you knew what you were doing", to "WoW classic was easy and people who die in WoW classic are just bad", to "yeah ok even streamer veteran pro players die, but that's because they are dying on purpose!", or "Yeah this comparison isn't even fair, because WoW classic was a different system and is old" or something.
The goalpost just keeps moving every time. No matter WHAT kind of proof or argument is provided, the goalpost moves further and further back, giving proponents of greater challenge an impossible burden of proof.
Okay, that's it. I'm done.
(For real, this time.)
K you need to do a naked level 50 cp160+ char, because then the game actually treats you like naked and doesn't inject you with tons of stats to simulate a lower level char being at that level. I guarantee a naked level 50cp160 is going to have a TOUGH time doing what your level 4 did.
Sorry but I have to comment, this is awesome.
You quote my post about repeatedly showing you guys how you keep moving the goalposts. And then you IMMEDIATELY proceed to move the goalpost again.
Not sure if just trolling at this point....
Ugh, I have to vanish or I'll be stuck in this thread forever!
*poof*4 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭robertthebard wrote: »Yeah so I’ve been playing classic wow and it’s very easy. The one time I died was from an elite bat in the forest respawning on top of me while resting.
The time in between fights is so long.
I see videos of kiting, strafing, keeping out of range, etc. That is absolutely not what a noob will do. A noob will stand still. You may not be using spells but you are using player experience.
I haven’t been convinced. A difference in combat philosophy is the biggest factor to what an individual finds “easy”. There are people, real people, who do not find ESO easy. I meet them, I’m in guilds with them, I do events with them, I see them struggling everywhere I go.
Having played wow classic, wow live, and eso this week I’m still firmly in the belief that wow is the easier game.
By the way, this is a video of PROFESSIONAL WoW players getting their butts kicked in classic.
Enjoyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8unROhEnwY
I watched the first streamer. He’s not paying attention to what he’s doing. Jumping around doesn’t help in classic wow because you can’t cast while moving. He’s fighting 3 enemies above his level. Why not use your first 10 silver to learn knives or bows on a Warrior so you can pull one at a time? Why not fight yellow difficulty mobs, why does he need to fight harder ones?
If that’s how you’re doing it then that is a failure in understanding the game. Use your 2004 mind, not your 2020 mind.
He’s fighting 3 enemies above his level.
Literally the very first death in the entire video is against a single same-level murloc.
Which doesn't support "Professional that knows what he's doing", but more supports "noob". You know, the same thing you'd suggest about people dying here in overland content. I'd expect that a good player, or a professional, wouldn't have this problem, yes? I would expect that they knew what they were doing enough to be able to survive a trash mob, but that's not what we see. It doesn't make me go "Oh hey, our game needs to be that hard", it makes me go "Yep, WoW players are best at Leeroy Jenkins videos, or music video machinima".
Edit: Ghost post removed...
You're joking, right?
You're saying Asmongold is a noob.
We can now stop taking you seriously forever.
Or he’s failing to play the game properly on purpose for the lulz and the likes.
Right, another liar I suppose, just like me. Anyone who disagrees with you is faking or lying. All those deaths in the video I posted were a bunch of fakers, that's it!
Keep moving the goalposts, guys. That way you'll never be wrong.
This will be my last post on that topic, we have a moderator telling us to knock it off now.
The goalposts just keep moving again and again in this thread every time we score a point.
Here's a quick recap of this:
The original ESO argument. This thread started with "ESO isn't too easy, it's fine", so people share their experiences about absolutely facerolling everything.
That isn't enough though, it's anecdotal (understandable), so you talk about new players, progression, experience etc. all being factors. Fair enough I guess.
Then people suggest that we could make a simple, optional debuff difficulty slider which would only affect me to actually make NPCs deal damage. But that gets shot down too because "oh that's artificial", as though nothing would change. (Like not being able to stand there naked doing literally nothing against an NPC would be irrelevant.) Dealing less damage and taking more damage would be a VAST improvement and make decisions much more important, but nope, you guys can't have that!
To show what a joke a lot of enemies can be in this game, and to show why we'd need them to deal more damage, I show my naked level 4 being literally invincible as he sits there doing nothing being attacked forever, and forever staying at 100% health, until a random player I didn't know passed by and ended that NPC in one second.
But then you guys say that doesn't count because reasons! I have to go fight different NPCs! The goalpost has moved.
I then scour the entire zone for like 10 minutes to find an elite. I then make a new video showing my naked, weaponless level 4 killing it by holding down the left arrow key and spamming 1 button, finishing the fight at 100%. Both times when that "elite" NPC actually hits me with an ability, the damage is utterly negligible (like 5% damage to my naked NPC who autoheals to full within 2 seconds).
But that doesn't count either because reasons! I cheesed the fight, I used my "skill and experience!" That's right, by holding down the "left" directional arrow key for the entire fight, it shows what a good player I am. (Also nevermind the fact that an "elite" npc couldn't even scratch my naked character the times he did connect).
The goalpost moves again.
So we try to give an example of another MMORPG that actually had a challenging overworld, WoW classic. "That's easy too" they say!
People here saying that WoW classic overworld is easy (or easier than current ESO overworld) either haven't ever played WoW classic, or are just delusional because they really, really want to win this argument and simply will not admit it. These are the same people that keep moving the goalposts every time I counter their arguments.
It goes from "WoW classic was easy", to "WoW classic was easy if you knew what you were doing", to "WoW classic was easy and people who die in WoW classic are just bad", to "yeah ok even streamer veteran pro players die, but that's because they are dying on purpose!", or "Yeah this comparison isn't even fair, because WoW classic was a different system and is old" or something.
The goalpost just keeps moving every time. No matter WHAT kind of proof or argument is provided, the goalpost moves further and further back, giving proponents of greater challenge an impossible burden of proof.
Okay, that's it. I'm done.
(For real, this time.)
K you need to do a naked level 50 cp160+ char, because then the game actually treats you like naked and doesn't inject you with tons of stats to simulate a lower level char being at that level. I guarantee a naked level 50cp160 is going to have a TOUGH time doing what your level 4 did.
I did the same to elite with CP810 char without CP and gear:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6758483/#Comment_6758483
Though I'll admit it was quite a sweaty fight despite it's visual simplicity
so yes, by removing CP, food, ALL armor and weapons and by slotting no abilities, you may receive engaging action combat but that is comparable to if Geralt was doing only fist fights through all the 150 hours of W3. 3