Why is this game so easy?
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Dahveed✭✭✭✭✭
✭robertthebard wrote: »
You'll excuse me for being skeptical, of course? Allow me to explain why that may be:
So I'm reading the DDO forums, and this very thread pops up. A player chimes in that his buddies all joined, F2P, and found the game bone numbingly easy, and went back to WoW. When pressed about how a bunch of F2P players were bound to find that the game was too easy, since they can only open quests on Normal, they claimed, well one of them was VIP, so they could open all the quests on Elite.
The bolded parts highlight what was wrong with his tale. He came in with a lie. Whether that lie was that he had friends or, that his friends all came in as F2P, or that they found the game too easy, it's really hard to say. Given the way the exchange morphed through pointing out the inconsistencies in his tale, it's really easy to just dismiss it out of hand. Given that people are prone to hyperbole to support their positions, especially if they're fighting for something they really want, and given that I've actually caught them out at it, as per my example here, I'm more than a little skeptical. It's even easier to be skeptical when we get things like fighting normal mobs, instead of finding more difficult mobs on the map to support "see, it's too easy" and claiming that nobody learns their classes because of it. I could go on, but I think it's pretty clear why I may be more than a tad bit skeptical about "well my friends".
It's even easier to be skeptical when we get things like fighting normal mobs, instead of finding more difficult mobs on the map to support "see, it's too easy"
Here, I made this video earlier today, I'll post it JUST for you, pudding.
My naked, CP-less, skill-less brand new character with no stats and no buffs killing an elite enemy in the overworld, pressing two buttons: The directional arrow key "left", and the "1" key.
I finish the fight with 100% health.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lB-3LANzQAQ&feature=youtu.be
EDIT: sorry, I forgot that I used break free once, or maybe twice, I don't remember. In case you accuse me of lying, or something.
EDIT 2: The resolution is awful, I think it takes some time for youtube to process it into 1080 quality...Edited by Dahveed on May 11, 2020 5:13AM4 -
Rave the Histborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭
"single player games have difficulty sliders, this is my 14th mmo in 20 years and it isn't hard anymore because I'm too experienced, etc."
I get really tired of this old trope of people from your side of the argument turning ours into a straw man caricature as though we're all just morons.
We've stated repeatedly how we get NEW players into ESO to share our joy of this universe, people who have never played MMOs before and quit because it's too easy.
I have played 2 (two) MMOs in my entire life, WoW and ESO.
ESO is too easy. WoW is also too easy.
WoW classic is NOT too easy. I am playing it now and getting destroyed all the time. (I am a 10-12 year veteran of World of Warcraft, and RIGHT NOW, despite my decades of video game experience, every class I make gets repeatedly destroyed in the open world. My paladin, who has two bubbles, Lay on Hands (instant click full health), heavy armor and a stun, is level 17 and has died at least 25 times.
Yet when I roll naked alts in ESO I am practically unkillable, even without CP. I just now ran around naked on my level 4 necromancer and killed an elite eagle (cant' remember name) by pressing doing two things: holding down the left directional arrow, and pressing 1 when my mana bar wasn't empty.
Very innovative and thoughtful ideas are being proposed about how overland difficulty sliders (and the like) could be implemented, and indeed other MMOs have ALREADY implemented these ideas, and they work.
But just keep blocking your ears saying "la la la I don't hear you!" and then build your straw man to strike it down again next time the argument comes up. Because everyone who disagrees with you must be very stupid, right? Make us all sound as dumb as possible, that way people will agree with you.
EDIT - Just wanted to add, it's not entirely true I've only every played 2 MMOs, I have also tried Rift and LotRO, but quit after an hour or two each time because I quickly realized they follow the same pattern as all the rest, and that they, too, are too easy (i.e. nothing is ever dangerous in the OW). A large subset of players crave challenge and are put to sleep by the monotony of easy gameplay.
I get really tired of this old trope of people from your side of the argument turning ours into a straw man caricature as though we're all just morons.
We've stated repeatedly how we get NEW players into ESO to share our joy of this universe, people who have never played MMOs before and quit because it's too easy.
I have played 2 (two) MMOs in my entire life, WoW and ESO.
ESO is too easy. WoW is also too easy.
WoW classic is NOT too easy. I am playing it now and getting destroyed all the time. (I am a 10-12 year veteran of World of Warcraft, and RIGHT NOW, despite my decades of video game experience, every class I make gets repeatedly destroyed in the open world. My paladin, who has two bubbles, Lay on Hands (instant click full health), heavy armor and a stun, is level 17 and has died at least 25 times.
It's not a trope it's reality, you're trying to get "new" people into ESO that aren't new to MMOs and aren't going into overland solo but you're trying to use it as an example of solo overland content being too easy. Everything gets easier when multiple people are attacking it at the same time, that's not new to MMOs and not really a point.
If you're getting killed that hard in WoW classic then you're showing your actual skill levels because WoW classic is boring and meaningless combat. WoW combat is the origin of MMO memes from the over use of the same type of quest in every zone to drawn out coma inducing combat. I've never seen a game with more skippable and laughable mechanics in it that constantly gets defended by nostalgia fan boys. Their combat is dated, the story is dated and at this point so full of holes I don't understand why people still play it aside from the time they've already sank into the game already.
Yet when I roll naked alts in ESO I am practically unkillable, even without CP. I just now ran around naked on my level 4 necromancer and killed an elite eagle (cant' remember name) by pressing doing two things: holding down the left directional arrow, and pressing 1 when my mana bar wasn't empty.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-U9rnn6ulk
TFW you're getting told about how easy the game is but the game you're trying to turn it into is even easier
Very innovative and thoughtful ideas are being proposed about how overland difficulty sliders (and the like) could be implemented, and indeed other MMOs have ALREADY implemented these ideas, and they work.
None of them are thoughtful or innovative, it's the same 4 ideas that keep getting posted in the forums over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. See how repetitive that got? That's how it get with these threads, suddenly everyone plays a single they know how to change and fix every other game. Yes, MMOs have implemented these ideas, ones that ARE ALREADY DESIGNED AROUND THE IDEA ALREADY. Yes, they work but they are also EASILY AND READILY ABUSED EVERY TIME UNLESS YOU MAKE OVERLAND INSTANCED.
But just keep blocking your ears saying "la la la I don't hear you!" and then build your straw man to strike it down again next time the argument comes up. Because everyone who disagrees with you must be very stupid, right? Make us all sound as dumb as possible, that way people will agree with you.
Just keep repeating yourself the same idea like it's new then instead of listening to other people tell you why it can't be done make up every reason in the book not to listen. Oh, it's a straw man, you're not listening, the idea is new this time and different from the last 80 times, etc. Because everyone that posts this must be a prophet right? I mean damn it, I spent a weekend playing some F2P mmos, that one time so that means I clearly know everything about every MMO ever1 -
Dahveed✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rave the Histborn wrote: »
I get really tired of this old trope of people from your side of the argument turning ours into a straw man caricature as though we're all just morons.
We've stated repeatedly how we get NEW players into ESO to share our joy of this universe, people who have never played MMOs before and quit because it's too easy.
I have played 2 (two) MMOs in my entire life, WoW and ESO.
ESO is too easy. WoW is also too easy.
WoW classic is NOT too easy. I am playing it now and getting destroyed all the time. (I am a 10-12 year veteran of World of Warcraft, and RIGHT NOW, despite my decades of video game experience, every class I make gets repeatedly destroyed in the open world. My paladin, who has two bubbles, Lay on Hands (instant click full health), heavy armor and a stun, is level 17 and has died at least 25 times.
It's not a trope it's reality, you're trying to get "new" people into ESO that aren't new to MMOs and aren't going into overland solo but you're trying to use it as an example of solo overland content being too easy. Everything gets easier when multiple people are attacking it at the same time, that's not new to MMOs and not really a point.
If you're getting killed that hard in WoW classic then you're showing your actual skill levels because WoW classic is boring and meaningless combat. WoW combat is the origin of MMO memes from the over use of the same type of quest in every zone to drawn out coma inducing combat. I've never seen a game with more skippable and laughable mechanics in it that constantly gets defended by nostalgia fan boys. Their combat is dated, the story is dated and at this point so full of holes I don't understand why people still play it aside from the time they've already sank into the game already.
Yet when I roll naked alts in ESO I am practically unkillable, even without CP. I just now ran around naked on my level 4 necromancer and killed an elite eagle (cant' remember name) by pressing doing two things: holding down the left directional arrow, and pressing 1 when my mana bar wasn't empty.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-U9rnn6ulk
TFW you're getting told about how easy the game is but the game you're trying to turn it into is even easier
Very innovative and thoughtful ideas are being proposed about how overland difficulty sliders (and the like) could be implemented, and indeed other MMOs have ALREADY implemented these ideas, and they work.
None of them are thoughtful or innovative, it's the same 4 ideas that keep getting posted in the forums over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. See how repetitive that got? That's how it get with these threads, suddenly everyone plays a single they know how to change and fix every other game. Yes, MMOs have implemented these ideas, ones that ARE ALREADY DESIGNED AROUND THE IDEA ALREADY. Yes, they work but they are also EASILY AND READILY ABUSED EVERY TIME UNLESS YOU MAKE OVERLAND INSTANCED.
But just keep blocking your ears saying "la la la I don't hear you!" and then build your straw man to strike it down again next time the argument comes up. Because everyone who disagrees with you must be very stupid, right? Make us all sound as dumb as possible, that way people will agree with you.
Just keep repeating yourself the same idea like it's new then instead of listening to other people tell you why it can't be done make up every reason in the book not to listen. Oh, it's a straw man, you're not listening, the idea is new this time and different from the last 80 times, etc. Because everyone that posts this must be a prophet right? I mean damn it, I spent a weekend playing some F2P mmos, that one time so that means I clearly know everything about every MMO ever
It's not a trope it's reality, you're trying to get "new" people into ESO that aren't new to MMOs and aren't going into overland solo but you're trying to use it as an example of solo overland content being too easy. Everything gets easier when multiple people are attacking it at the same time, that's not new to MMOs and not really a point.
They ARE new to MMOs, that's why I said. I've tried showing this game to people, sitting in my chair in front of MY computer, solo, and they are steamrolling everything and they want to know if it gets any harder. I tell them, questing, no, but dungeons, yes. Then I explain to them that they have to get to max level and gear up to do the hard stuff, then they just drop the game because they don't want to play MMO #437,304 to follow this same exact formula.
I mean I even said in my post (that you yourself quoted) that these new players have never even played an MMO before, yet you say in your very first paragraph the exact opposite. Am I lying? Also, they aren't playing in groups, they are playing through the tutorials, by themselves, then following the questing chains, by themselves, and burning through them like it's nothing, and wanting to know where the challenge is.
The most frequent complain I hear from friends and family that have tried ESO and quit, is that nothing they do even matters. Gear upgrades are irrelevant, skills are irrelevant, crafting is worthless except for cosmetics... etc.
As for the two people (only two) that HAVE played MMOs before, WoW, well we all quit WoW for the same reasons: It was too easy. Now that classic is out we're all playing that again, once again playing a game that rewards good decisions and punishes stupidity and carelessness. Our gear matters, our points matter, and our decisions in combat in all matter in the open world while questing.
We all quit WoW because Cataclysm destroyed that felling of progression completely and made the entire OW faceroll nonsense.
If you're getting killed that hard in WoW classic then you're showing your actual skill levels because WoW classic is boring and meaningless combat. WoW combat is the origin of MMO memes from the over use of the same type of quest in every zone to drawn out coma inducing combat. I've never seen a game with more skippable and laughable mechanics in it that constantly gets defended by nostalgia fan boys. Their combat is dated, the story is dated and at this point so full of holes I don't understand why people still play it aside from the time they've already sank into the game already.
If I'm getting killed that hard in WoW classic, then I must really suck right?
Then how is it that a crappy, terrible, awful player like me who dies in such an easy, mindless game like WoW Classic can come into a game like ESO and never, ever die?
Thanks for proving my point. It's appreciated.
As for that video you showed, you are showing someone soloing a raid several expansions and patches after relevant content. I did this as well on my level 80 hunter, I used to go back to older raids and solo them just to see the content, because I'm not a raider. That video proves nothing.
None of them are thoughtful or innovative, it's the same 4 ideas that keep getting posted in the forums over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. See how repetitive that got? That's how it get with these threads, suddenly everyone plays a single they know how to change and fix every other game. Yes, MMOs have implemented these ideas, ones that ARE ALREADY DESIGNED AROUND THE IDEA ALREADY. Yes, they work but they are also EASILY AND READILY ABUSED EVERY TIME UNLESS YOU MAKE OVERLAND INSTANCED.
Well I'll grant you that they are brought up frequently on these forums, which to me just shows us that this is something a significant portion of the population would want.
I never claimed we know how to "fix every single game". We're just asking for one (important) change. My own personal take on the whole situation would just be a debuff to my character, which would confer no additional loot or rewards, and would not be prone to abuse because there is literally no advantage to do so.
Just keep repeating yourself the same idea like it's new then instead of listening to other people tell you why it can't be done make up every reason in the book not to listen. Oh, it's a straw man, you're not listening, the idea is new this time and different from the last 80 times, etc. Because everyone that posts this must be a prophet right? I mean damn it, I spent a weekend playing some F2P mmos, that one time so that means I clearly know everything about every MMO ever
I find it amusing how you quote my paragraph about strawmanning, then immediately proceed to make a strawman caricature of what people are proposing while making us sound like idiot crybabies.
Yes, we are saying exactly this: We know everything about every MMO ever. That's what we're saying. Totally. /golfclap
Edit: a couple really awful typosEdited by Dahveed on May 11, 2020 6:16AM3 -
StormeReigns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Here, I made this video earlier today, I'll post it JUST for you, pudding.
My naked, CP-less, skill-less brand new character with no stats and no buffs killing an elite enemy in the overworld, pressing two buttons: The directional arrow key "left", and the "1" key.
I finish the fight with 100% health.
EDIT: sorry, I forgot that I used break free once, or maybe twice, I don't remember. In case you accuse me of lying, or something.
EDIT 2: The resolution is awful, I think it takes some time for youtube to process it into 1080 quality...
My favorite part is the mention of being Skill-less, while utilizing skill. I.E: Years of accumulated knowledge of how certain mobs work, in this case gryphons and how to move to limit damage and avoid melee combat, spamming skull from range to maximize cheese to try to make point that every single new player will know this and will have the same outcome in every single encounter cause your personal experience dictates and defines every encounter for every single player.
Edited by StormeReigns on May 11, 2020 8:25AM7 -
Rave the Histborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭
It's not a trope it's reality, you're trying to get "new" people into ESO that aren't new to MMOs and aren't going into overland solo but you're trying to use it as an example of solo overland content being too easy. Everything gets easier when multiple people are attacking it at the same time, that's not new to MMOs and not really a point.
They ARE new to MMOs, that's why I said. I've tried showing this game to people, sitting in my chair in front of MY computer, solo, and they are steamrolling everything and they want to know if it gets any harder. I tell them, questing, no, but dungeons, yes. Then I explain to them that they have to get to max level and gear up to do the hard stuff, then they just drop the game because they don't want to play MMO #437,304 to follow this same exact formula.
I mean I even said in my post (that you yourself quoted) that these new players have never even played an MMO before, yet you say in your very first paragraph the exact opposite. Am I lying? Also, they aren't playing in groups, they are playing through the tutorials, by themselves, then following the questing chains, by themselves, and burning through them like it's nothing, and wanting to know where the challenge is.
The most frequent complain I hear from friends and family that have tried ESO and quit, is that nothing they do even matters. Gear upgrades are irrelevant, skills are irrelevant, crafting is worthless except for cosmetics... etc.
As for the two people (only two) that HAVE played MMOs before, WoW, well we all quit WoW for the same reasons: It was too easy. Now that classic is out we're all playing that again, once again playing a game that rewards good decisions and punishes stupidity and carelessness. Our gear matters, our points matter, and our decisions in combat in all matter in the open world while questing.
We all quit WoW because Cataclysm destroyed that felling of progression completely and made the entire OW faceroll nonsense.
If you're getting killed that hard in WoW classic then you're showing your actual skill levels because WoW classic is boring and meaningless combat. WoW combat is the origin of MMO memes from the over use of the same type of quest in every zone to drawn out coma inducing combat. I've never seen a game with more skippable and laughable mechanics in it that constantly gets defended by nostalgia fan boys. Their combat is dated, the story is dated and at this point so full of holes I don't understand why people still play it aside from the time they've already sank into the game already.
If I'm getting killed that hard in WoW classic, then I must really suck right?
Then how is it that a crappy, terrible, awful player like me who dies in such an easy, mindless game like WoW Classic can come into a game like ESO and never, ever die?
Thanks for proving my point. It's appreciated.
As for that video you showed, you are showing someone soloing a raid several expansions and patches after relevant content. I did this as well on my level 80 hunter, I used to go back to older raids and solo them just to see the content, because I'm not a raider. That video proves nothing.
None of them are thoughtful or innovative, it's the same 4 ideas that keep getting posted in the forums over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. See how repetitive that got? That's how it get with these threads, suddenly everyone plays a single they know how to change and fix every other game. Yes, MMOs have implemented these ideas, ones that ARE ALREADY DESIGNED AROUND THE IDEA ALREADY. Yes, they work but they are also EASILY AND READILY ABUSED EVERY TIME UNLESS YOU MAKE OVERLAND INSTANCED.
Well I'll grant you that they are brought up frequently on these forums, which to me just shows us that this is something a significant portion of the population would want.
I never claimed we know how to "fix every single game". We're just asking for one (important) change. My own personal take on the whole situation would just be a debuff to my character, which would confer no additional loot or rewards, and would not be prone to abuse because there is literally no advantage to do so.
Just keep repeating yourself the same idea like it's new then instead of listening to other people tell you why it can't be done make up every reason in the book not to listen. Oh, it's a straw man, you're not listening, the idea is new this time and different from the last 80 times, etc. Because everyone that posts this must be a prophet right? I mean damn it, I spent a weekend playing some F2P mmos, that one time so that means I clearly know everything about every MMO ever
I find it amusing how you quote my paragraph about strawmanning, then immediately proceed to make a strawman caricature of what people are proposing while making us sound like idiot crybabies.
Yes, we are saying exactly this: We know everything about every MMO ever. That's what we're saying. Totally. /golfclap
Edit: a couple really awful typos
They ARE new to MMOs, that's why I said. I've tried showing this game to people, sitting in my chair in front of MY computer, solo, and they are steamrolling everything and they want to know if it gets any harder. I tell them, questing, no, but dungeons, yes. Then I explain to them that they have to get to max level and gear up to do the hard stuff, then they just drop the game because they don't want to play MMO #437,304 to follow this same exact formula.
Ok, so they're new to MMOs and you have to explain everything to them about gear and leveling but they drop the game because they don't want to play MMO#437,304 because it's too formulaic. If these people don't want a "formulaic MMOrpg" then they certainly aren't new to MMOs because you have to have experience with MMOs to know the formulas.
I mean I even said in my post (that you yourself quoted) that these new players have never even played an MMO before, yet you say in your very first paragraph the exact opposite. Am I lying? Also, they aren't playing in groups, they are playing through the tutorials, by themselves, then following the questing chains, by themselves, and burning through them like it's nothing, and wanting to know where the challenge is.
LMAO are they playing for like 10minutes and evaluating the game on that? They're looking for challenge in the tutorials and the first couple quests in the game which are still explaining the game. Is that how we're evaluating games now? Someone played the tutorial and they blew threw it so now let's completely change overland content? Get real lol
The most frequent complain I hear from friends and family that have tried ESO and quit, is that nothing they do even matters. Gear upgrades are irrelevant, skills are irrelevant, crafting is worthless except for cosmetics... etc.
At this point from what you've said I doubt these people exist or have spent more than 10min in game to formulate these opinions and don't understand how the game systems work to enough of a level that they can give serious opinions on them. Gear upgrades are obviously relevant, more so than in other MMOs, less so in WoW but for good reason. Once you hit a certain point of progression in WoW endgame there is no set diversity, you have your endgame class sets and that's it. Skills are obviously relevant and someone who's only experience is the tutorial from your admission isn't going to sway me. Crafting is of obviously relevant as the 9/9 crafting sets are some of the best in the game and it is one of the best money makers in the game. What cosmetics do you get from crafting? You lost me there because you don't get any from doing that
As for the two people (only two) that HAVE played MMOs before, WoW, well we all quit WoW for the same reasons: It was too easy. Now that classic is out we're all playing that again, once again playing a game that rewards good decisions and punishes stupidity and carelessness. Our gear matters, our points matter, and our decisions in combat in all matter in the open world while questing.
We all quit WoW because Cataclysm destroyed that felling of progression completely and made the entire OW faceroll nonsense.
I had quit long before that because the game was easy and had no progression or meaning to any skills by the time Sunwell Plateau was released. Crafting was actually meaningless because in order to craft high end gear you had to choose to be an armor smith and by the time you hit end level crafting all your armor was outclassed by raid gear and you couldn't sell anything because it was crafted as BoP. You think it matters because you have nostalgic memories where you think it mattered. The turth is, unless you wandered into a zone that had skull level enemies everything in "classic" WoW was a face roll.
If I'm getting killed that hard in WoW classic, then I must really suck right?
Then how is it that a crappy, terrible, awful player like me who dies in such an easy, mindless game like WoW Classic can come into a game like ESO and never, ever die?
Thanks for proving my point. It's appreciated.
Because you're lying about not dying XD I mean, you've already done it previously and I've pointed it out, why not continue the trend.
That's why you're so quick to go "gotcha", imagine dying in an easier overland game environment and then trying to turn it into a brag about why people should listen to you about a different MMOs combat and difficulty.
Imagine sayin ESO is easy with a straight face when your comparison MMOs combat is: send pet to tank enemies, throw dots on and damage from afar. Repeat.
I actually broke into a sweat and got stressed out writting about it, that is some high octane full throttle yawnbat
Oh wait are you not a hunter or a warlock, you're a rogue: Invis, incap 1 of them to build combo, unleash combo on next hit to kill mob
I am in the back of my chair, even just writing this I look like the RCA man just from thinking about how hard that is to pull off
As for that video you showed, you are showing someone soloing a raid several expansions and patches after relevant content. I did this as well on my level 80 hunter, I used to go back to older raids and solo them just to see the content, because I'm not a raider. That video proves nothing.
Umm it proves that a few couple expansions after that content was released that what was the hardest content in WoW is obscenely easy and what is meant for 25 people can be easily cleared by 1 person. It's part of the reason raids and dungeons in ESO are constantly brought up and people don't want to talk about them when this topic comes around. Endgame in WoW is terrible. It's not really well implemented, raids are and Karazhan aside, have always been stale and boring experiences. That's part of why overland stands out so much in the game, because endgame never really stands out in any way.
Well I'll grant you that they are brought up frequently on these forums, which to me just shows us that this is something a significant portion of the population would want.
Is the same 10 people repeating themselves over and over a significant portion?
I find it amusing how you quote my paragraph about strawmanning, then immediately proceed to make a strawman caricature of what people are proposing while making us sound like idiot crybabies.
Yes, we are saying exactly this: We know everything about every MMO ever. That's what we're saying. Totally. /golfclap
What am I strawmaning? These are all actual arguments people made that I took from this thread and used 🤣🤣🤣2 -
Michae✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭StormeReigns wrote: »
My favorite part is the mention of being Skill-less, while utilizing skill. I.E: Years of accumulated knowledge of how certain mobs work, in this case gryphons and how to move to limit damage and avoid melee combat, spamming skull from range to maximize cheese to try to make point that every single new player will know this and will have the same outcome in every single encounter cause your personal experience dictates and defines every encounter for every single player.
Yep, also it takes him forever to kill that thing. It's just boring and it'll be the same kind of boring if you had to take this much time to kill mobs with full gear/skills/CP and while in danger of getting wiped. Tedious and long. Dodging and using actual playing skills is nice but damage sponges just make all fights longer, not harder. This is no spectacle fighter unfortunately and no ammount of buffing/nerfing is going to make ESO fights engaging."I bear the cruel weight of certainty. Total, absolute, relentless certainty. People rarely comprehend the luxury of doubt... the freedom that comes with indecision. I envy you."
―Sotha Sil
@Michae PC/EU3 -
Dahveed✭✭✭✭✭
✭StormeReigns wrote: »
My favorite part is the mention of being Skill-less, while utilizing skill. I.E: Years of accumulated knowledge of how certain mobs work, in this case gryphons and how to move to limit damage and avoid melee combat, spamming skull from range to maximize cheese to try to make point that every single new player will know this and will have the same outcome in every single encounter cause your personal experience dictates and defines every encounter for every single player.
Wow.
You are seriously telling me that new players won't know about the directional arrow keys?
Really?1 -
Dahveed✭✭✭✭✭
✭StormeReigns wrote: »
My favorite part is the mention of being Skill-less, while utilizing skill. I.E: Years of accumulated knowledge of how certain mobs work, in this case gryphons and how to move to limit damage and avoid melee combat, spamming skull from range to maximize cheese to try to make point that every single new player will know this and will have the same outcome in every single encounter cause your personal experience dictates and defines every encounter for every single player.
Also, for the record, this is literally the first Gryphon I have every fought in ESO in my entire life.
I have never been to Elsweyr in this game before, I just found this enemy out in the open and pressed record.
If you call not being a complete moron and standing in front of his face while he charges at me "cheesing", well I guess every video game I've ever played in my entire life I've cheesed.
If you have two brain cells to rub together you can beat ESO enemies.
What we have here, folks, is a classic example of an arguing strategy known as "moving back the goal post".
Basically, you start with the argument that the overland enemies are hard for new players, so I show you guys a video of me fighting naked against an overland enemy, not taking any damage.
Then someone says, "yeah but that's just a regular one, go fight an elite and you'll see!"
So I run around for twenty minutes in the zone and finally find ONE lone elite, literally standing there doing nothing, posing no threat at all. It has no aggro range to speak of, no patrol route, no movement at all... it literally just SITS THERE waiting for a player to kill it.
I proceed to destroy it easily taking literally no damage while pressing two buttons for the entire fight, showing you that your elites are also a joke. (I also killed two ogres and one of those spiky turtle things naked, but forgot I wasn't filming.)
I post this video, which gives you exactly what you asked for when you moved the goal posts back - an elite fight.
So now you move the goal posts back again. "Yeah, yeah normal NPCs are easy, and yeah this fight was easy... BUT YOU CHEESED IT! Normal inexperienced players would have just stood there like morons and ate glue while banging their own heads with a casserole!"
So where is the next goal post? What else do I have to do next to show you how easy this game is? Unplug my keyboard?
The game is easy. VERY easy. It's obvious to anyone who has ever played any video game in their entire life.
Having a 100% optional difficulty toggle (which affects only my player, as a debuff) would solve this and wouldn't affect any other players, new or old, who want the vanilla experience (ez mode).1 -
StormeReigns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Wow.
You are seriously telling me that new players won't know about the directional arrow keys?
Really?
No, your telling everyone that your actions, encounters and experience speak for every and all players, new and old. You explicitly and countless times in this thread and others stated this. You have already mentally set yourself to believe that your personal encounters, no matter if new character or fully built, that everyone (especially brand new players with zero knowledge of the game) in every single outcome will drop any overworld mob, be it normal, elite or worldboss/dragon in matter of mere seconds cause you and a select few find it personally easy.
So, since Overland is SO easy. How come in this video that I made especially just for you the random player that visited the WB I was soloing happened to die a few times despite your claims of every single aspect of OL being painfully easy?
https://youtu.be/hBBgzsTN3ZI
According to your logic, since I was able to survive and beat it, the random player (at 03:49) should have been able to do the exact same thing and not die at all no matter what, even if they had zero knowledge of the fight, no CP, poor gear or low in levels.Edited by StormeReigns on May 11, 2020 10:04AM1 -
Dahveed✭✭✭✭✭
✭StormeReigns wrote: »
No, your telling everyone that your actions, encounters and experience speak for every and all players, new and old. You explicitly and countless times in this thread and others stated this. You have already mentally set yourself to believe that your personal encounters, no matter if new character or fully built, that everyone (especially brand new players with zero knowledge of the game) in every single outcome will drop any overworld mob, be it normal, elite or worldboss/dragon in matter of mere seconds cause you and a select few find it personally easy.
So, since Overland is SO easy. How come in this video that I made especially just for you the random player that visited the WB I was soloing happened to die a few times despite your claims of every single aspect of OL being painfully easy?https://youtu.be/hBBgzsTN3ZI
According to your logic, since I was able to survive and beat it, the random player (at 03:49) should have been able to do the exact same thing and not die at all no matter what, even if they had zero knowledge of the fight, no CP, poor gear or low in levels.
I'm saying it's really easy for people who aren't terrible.
That's why we need a difficulty OPTION.
I didn't say (nor have I EVER said) that it should be hardmode for everyone.
I'm saying if that if you cannot do this content, then you aren't good at video games. That's fine, there are other things in life that I am also terrible at that those people excel at.
But in this video game it would be nice if we had a difficulty toggle so that people who aren't terrible at it can make things challenging and dangerous, so it would be more engaging.
Again you're trying to make this straw-man argument that I just want to up the difficulty of everything, everywhere for everyone without any consideration of newbies or baddies.
When I started this game it was horribly easy. When I tried this game again with a different class it was very very easy for me. When I came several months later it was still very easy. When Tamriel Unlimited came out - astoundingly - it became even easier. For me, and for the majority of players who aren't bad.
Of course there is a percentage of players who are bad. Only an idiot would think otherwise, and I am not an idiot. Quit trying to make me out to be one, and just acknowledge that a very large portion of players - impossible to say what percentage, my gut tells me that it's two thirds, at least (probably more like 90 percent) - has no trouble WHATSOEVER with this mindless content.3 -
robertthebard✭✭✭✭✭
So... your argument is, "a guy lied to me once, so you must also be lying"?
You must be incredibly cynical. I have no idea whatsoever what you're on about with that other forum, I've never played that game.
I could just as easily use your logic, and say that the story you JUST told me is 100% fabricated.
All I can do is talk about my own experiences, and whether or not you believe me is your choice.
In my experience, ESO overworld is way too easy. Classic Wow's isn't.
You can, indeed, and I would expect nothing less, anecdotal evidence sucks when one is trying to make a point, if one can't support it. While I could actually support this with actual quotes, and links to the source, it would be against the rules, since it would equate to naming and shaming. I could black out the names for the post, but not for the sourcing of said post. So I invite you to indeed be skeptical, the point, however, remains:
These threads are not unique to ESO. I've seen them in swtor, DDO, GW 2, BDO just off the top of my head. The only game that I've played that I don't recall seeing them in was a very old Korean Grinder called Rappelz, and there, at least for the first 4 years that I played it, everyone was too busy trying to get to level cap to worry about whether the game was "too easy" or not. The first NA player didn't get to the cap until about 4 years after it was introduced.
Then there's the "my friends" or "all my friends". How many people is that? What gaming experience do they really have? "They found this game too easy", compared to what, especially if one is trying to claim "no gaming experience at all"? I mean, if my only gaming experience prior to ESO was Monopoly, or Chess, I'm not sure I'd find it "too easy". I mean, my first troll would break that concept down, especially if I didn't move or interrupt it, given my lack of experience in MMOs, right? It's not like I'd be rolling in with 160+ CP, and all the right gear sets/gear for my level, where those mechanics don't matter. I don't find there's much in overland that's challenging, but, given my history in MMOs and SP games too, I wouldn't expect them to build the game to my minimum standard of challenge, it would drive a lot of new players, some of whom may not have any MMO experience, or any action RPG experience, right out the door. Likely including some of the players that repeatedly post in these threads. It's a side effect of playing SP RPGs on Nightmare equivalents, progression raiding, and constant exposure to group content during my MMO career, until "recently", in quotes because it's relative, and has nothing to do with not wanting to, but being unable to due to my health.
Instead, I accept it for what it is, a vehicle to deliver the story aspect of the game, and a means to get to where the challenging content really lives, when I find I'm ready to do that, if I can. I had to walk away from Tera because of the flashy content that is endgame. It's hell on my migraines. It's also a contributing factor to why I'm not a regular feature in end game content.2 -
robertthebard✭✭✭✭✭
I'm saying it's really easy for people who aren't terrible.
That's why we need a difficulty OPTION.
I didn't say (nor have I EVER said) that it should be hardmode for everyone.
I'm saying if that if you cannot do this content, then you aren't good at video games. That's fine, there are other things in life that I am also terrible at that those people excel at.
But in this video game it would be nice if we had a difficulty toggle so that people who aren't terrible at it can make things challenging and dangerous, so it would be more engaging.
Again you're trying to make this straw-man argument that I just want to up the difficulty of everything, everywhere for everyone without any consideration of newbies or baddies.
When I started this game it was horribly easy. When I tried this game again with a different class it was very very easy for me. When I came several months later it was still very easy. When Tamriel Unlimited came out - astoundingly - it became even easier. For me, and for the majority of players who aren't bad.
Of course there is a percentage of players who are bad. Only an idiot would think otherwise, and I am not an idiot. Quit trying to make me out to be one, and just acknowledge that a very large portion of players - impossible to say what percentage, my gut tells me that it's two thirds, at least (probably more like 90 percent) - has no trouble WHATSOEVER with this mindless content.
I beg to differ. A lack of experience does not equate to bad. It's nice to see some of what I pointed out being verified though. So they understand what formulaic MMO means in context as a player, but they've never played MMOs? "Trust me, it's on the internet, it must be true"?2 -
Dahveed✭✭✭✭✭
✭robertthebard wrote: »
You can, indeed, and I would expect nothing less, anecdotal evidence sucks when one is trying to make a point, if one can't support it. While I could actually support this with actual quotes, and links to the source, it would be against the rules, since it would equate to naming and shaming. I could black out the names for the post, but not for the sourcing of said post. So I invite you to indeed be skeptical, the point, however, remains:
These threads are not unique to ESO. I've seen them in swtor, DDO, GW 2, BDO just off the top of my head. The only game that I've played that I don't recall seeing them in was a very old Korean Grinder called Rappelz, and there, at least for the first 4 years that I played it, everyone was too busy trying to get to level cap to worry about whether the game was "too easy" or not. The first NA player didn't get to the cap until about 4 years after it was introduced.
Then there's the "my friends" or "all my friends". How many people is that? What gaming experience do they really have? "They found this game too easy", compared to what, especially if one is trying to claim "no gaming experience at all"? I mean, if my only gaming experience prior to ESO was Monopoly, or Chess, I'm not sure I'd find it "too easy". I mean, my first troll would break that concept down, especially if I didn't move or interrupt it, given my lack of experience in MMOs, right? It's not like I'd be rolling in with 160+ CP, and all the right gear sets/gear for my level, where those mechanics don't matter. I don't find there's much in overland that's challenging, but, given my history in MMOs and SP games too, I wouldn't expect them to build the game to my minimum standard of challenge, it would drive a lot of new players, some of whom may not have any MMO experience, or any action RPG experience, right out the door. Likely including some of the players that repeatedly post in these threads. It's a side effect of playing SP RPGs on Nightmare equivalents, progression raiding, and constant exposure to group content during my MMO career, until "recently", in quotes because it's relative, and has nothing to do with not wanting to, but being unable to due to my health.
Instead, I accept it for what it is, a vehicle to deliver the story aspect of the game, and a means to get to where the challenging content really lives, when I find I'm ready to do that, if I can. I had to walk away from Tera because of the flashy content that is endgame. It's hell on my migraines. It's also a contributing factor to why I'm not a regular feature in end game content.
I wouldn't expect them to build the game to my minimum standard of challenge, it would drive a lot of new players, some of whom may not have any MMO experience, or any action RPG experience, right out the door. Likely including some of the players that repeatedly post in these threads. It's a side effect of playing SP RPGs on Nightmare equivalents, progression raiding, and constant exposure to group content during my MMO career, until "recently", in quotes because it's relative, and has nothing to do with not wanting to, but being unable to due to my health.
Instead, I accept it for what it is, a vehicle to deliver the story aspect of the game, and a means to get to where the challenging content really lives, when I find I'm ready to do that, if I can. I had to walk away from Tera because of the flashy content that is endgame. It's hell on my migraines. It's also a contributing factor to why I'm not a regular feature in end game content.
Well I can respect that you are fine with how things are now, but speaking for myself and the people I know, it can get better (yes it's all anecdotal, but literally 100% of all people who I know IRL who have tried this game quit because they got bored.)
All I can do is plug away in forums like these, have others have done, and hopefully one day they'll do something. At this point I'm willing to accept almost anything that would break the monotony of their open world "combat".
It took almost a decade of forum rants over at Blizzard for the infamous "DERP you think you do but you don't!" company to finally cave and make vanilla servers. Hopefully one day Zenimax will spend the resources necessary to make a hardmode toggle (IMO it wouldn't take that many if done in a simple way).
I've said what I need to say, I'm pretty much done with this thread. Trying to leave on a good note, but it's hard to do so when so many posters aren't arguing in good faith, and are quite literally accusing me of being a liar, despite the fact that I've provided visual proof in the form of three different videos of what my experiences have been.
RIIIIIGHT, that's how I want to spend my time. Lying on forums for hours to convince devs to implement a feature I don't actually want. That makes sense!
Bye.0 -
redlink1979✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I'm not level 50 yet
Why complain if you haven't done any of the hard stuff yet: dungeons, trials and arenas on veteran mode and/or veteran hard mode?
"Sweet Mother, sweet Mother, send your child unto me, for the sins of the unworthy must be baptized in blood and fear"- Sons of the Night Mother | VforVendetta | Grownups Gaming EU | English Elders [PS][EU] 2360 CP
- Daggerfall's Mightiest | Eternal Champions | Legacy | Tamriel Melting Pot [PS][NA] 2190 CP
- SweetTrolls | Spring Rose | Daggerfall Royal Legion | Tinnitus Delux [PC][EU] 2345 CP
- Bacon Rats | Silverlight Brotherhood | Canis Root Tea Party | Vincula Doloris [PC][NA] 2090 CP
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arena25✭✭✭✭✭You haven't seen easy mode games until you see what Blizzard did to the retail version of World of Warcraft, going from Cataclysm onward.
There's a reason (actually, several reasons) why I prefer WoW Classic over WoW retail (when I feel like playing WoW, which i will admit I prefer Elder Scrolls for plenty of reasons). At least in WoW Classic (and to a degree, up to Wrath of the Lich King), you could die if you didn't pay attention. In WoW retail it's like Blizzard is afraid of players dying (though I will admit LFR N'Zoth was by far a welcome change of pace in terms of LFR requiring mechanics, but unfortunately that boss fight was the only time I've seen any form of challenging difficulty in retail WoW).Edited by arena25 on May 11, 2020 12:07PMIf you can't handle the heat...stay out of the kitchen!1 -
Onigar✭✭✭If you are CP 810 and familiar with what you are doing then some content will be easy.
This does not mean you have to leave it easy.
take off your gear and jewelry. Just leave weapons and see how you get on.
If its still too easy for you then look at your skills.
Could you choose skills that don't need weapons. for instance have swords on a Mag dps char.
There is a lot you can do.
When fully equipped can you solo Vet dungeons?
In nHelRa can you solo to the first boss? if so can you do the same in vHelRa?
Come on, this is a game with so many possibilities. Don't just rely on the Dev team to set the bar. Push it up yourself!!1 -
eKsDee✭✭✭✭✭If you are CP 810 and familiar with what you are doing then some content will be easy.
This does not mean you have to leave it easy.
take off your gear and jewelry. Just leave weapons and see how you get on.
If its still too easy for you then look at your skills.
Could you choose skills that don't need weapons. for instance have swords on a Mag dps char.
There is a lot you can do.
When fully equipped can you solo Vet dungeons?
In nHelRa can you solo to the first boss? if so can you do the same in vHelRa?
Come on, this is a game with so many possibilities. Don't just rely on the Dev team to set the bar. Push it up yourself!!
So in other words, play like a complete beginner? Serious question, how does that not sound off to you guys? "If you wanna have fun in overland, play like a complete beginner who is completely new to the game."2 -
csparks1✭✭✭Ever since ONE Tamriel, the PVE Zones seem easier - because they buff lower level players to allow them to quest anywhere - with anyone. Craglorn used to be so hard I couldn't even kill a pack of scorpions by myself... but after One Tamriel, and a bit of power creep - I can kill basically anything in the game. It's just the way it is.
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asuzab16_ESO✭✭✭robertthebard wrote: »...
The main issue with your post is that everything you've said in this thread is also based on anedoctal evidence. Not to say that you're necessarily wrong because some of my arguments were also based on my personal experiences, but we're stuck a debate that is very familiar with some of us. The infamous "You think you want but you don't" or the equivalent we had a few years ago "Nobody wants that". For years, there was no way to proove that people actually wanted Vanilla back, even if you had dozens of posts on the forums every day like you have now on ESO.
Back then, the forums were crowded with players that were asking for more difficulty, and they were often told that it was just them, that nobody else wanted that. It took about a decade of unresolvable debate for Blizzard to release Classic and to finally realize that the first category of players was right all these years. Even Blizzard announced that they doubled their subscriptions because of Classic, six months after the release, past the "nostalagia" effect that was supposed to get everyone to quit after getting max level.
I'm talking about this because the situation we have here feels very similar. We have tons of posts of these forums of people being unhappy with the difficulty, and those concerns are faced with not all only the completely stupid "Play without gear", "Stick to veteran instances", etc..., but also anecdotal evidence or the usual gibberish about this helping getting and keeping new comers, but where's the proof of it? If we look at the numbers, both WoW and ESO started bleeding players after the two games were dumbed down. There might be other factors of course, but as we have no evidence again, we are left with this: more accessibility, less subscriptions, coincidence?
Again, if dumbing down the game was actually bringing in more players and actively contributing to the overall game's health, that wouldn't really be an issue, and I would be the first to stop complaing about difficulty, but we can clearly see that this is not the case here, especially for ESO. So... Can't we simply admit that there's a part of the community that isn't happy about the way things are right now difficulty-wise and that it might be worth, in a first time, checking how big that part of the community is and, in a second time, try to bring it back to the game?
All that to say that I don't believe we're necessarily in the right, but I strongly believe that there are enough concerns to start investigating the matter and doing your best to try to discredit every person that complains about difficulty with some "Stick to veteran content", "Casuals are happy", etc... (like the guy below who jumped in with both feet...) isn't any better that what you were pointing at in your post.Edited by asuzab16_ESO on May 11, 2020 12:46PM3 -
JusticeSouldier✭✭✭✭It annoys me to no end. I want to play content that isn't tuned for a 5-year old. But it seems 90% of the PVE content is tuned for just that.
I'm not talking about raids or dungeons (public dungeons excluded). Those seem alright.
But when it comes to general questing, delves and the world in general, you can literally run around in crappy green gear 10 levels below your level and still demolish everything like nothing. How is that in any way fun?
I'm currently leveling with a friend and we're closing in on level 40. The game is a huge yawn-fest and we're craving for something to challenge us. He's playing a healer, but almost never have anything to heal. Questing and killing mobs is just a tedious running from A to B, only stopping to kill monsters in 2-8 seconds and it doesn't really matter how many monsters we pull either. We're basically playing an MMO that is tuned for under-geared 5-year olds. I'm saying that because my son can play this game without being able to read or have any understanding of what the skills on his hotbar do. He just mashes them randomly and kills things.
Doing delves feels so pointless. Usually you run into other players as well and everyone's just aching to kill stuff, but everything is mowed down in 2 seconds, and delves really become nothing but something you just run through, trying to get a hit or two in on things to gain exp. So incredibly boring, and such incredibly bad design.
Delves shouldn't even be public when the game is tuned in this way. I say this because they're literally tuned for a badly geared, completely unskilled SOLO player. So the moment you add more people in there, the already trivial content becomes fully and completely pointless from a gameplay perspective.
What's been by far the most fun so far has been killing world bosses (those skulls on the map) and running (non-public) dungeons as a duo. But as soon as you add a couple more players, even that content becomes quite easy. The only annoying thing is that dungeons are in general quite easy, too, but they add certain one-shot or nearly one-shot mechanics into the game to make it harder. That's a lousy way of adding challenge, because it means you can run through everything you're thrown against, but then a sudden and sometimes unavoidable mechanic prevents you from advancing further. Those are some of the most frowned-upon things from a player perspective because they're just not fun.
I'm not level 50 yet so some things might change, but overall this game needs a huge re-tuning. Doubling mob health and damage would be a start, but much more would certainly be required. Delve bosses are more like what normal mobs should be like, but even those are ridiculously easy. Would much prefer longer, harder fights with higher experience rewards per kill than the current trivial content of killing things in a few seconds without barely taking any damage.
Does nobody want even a tiny bit of challenge these days?
PS: Fix the damn bug that sometimes prevents you from attacking or using abilities!!
Dunning-Kruger effect.
Read this thread in a year or more after starting high end content. To laugh or be confused or both.all classes. pc platform, dissapointed.0 -
robertthebard✭✭✭✭✭
So in other words, play like a complete beginner? Serious question, how does that not sound off to you guys? "If you wanna have fun in overland, play like a complete beginner who is completely new to the game."
Irony? Considering the suggestions for making Vet mode OL that I've seen across multiple threads here, it's the same basic premise, but doesn't involve any dev time whatsoever. So let's see, there's "buff mobs to bullet sponges that do up to 4x as much damage", "nerf players to about 50% effectiveness, vs those same mobs" and other things similar. Here's the problem I see:
This is exactly the same list of things, amongst others, that was requested for DDO's Reaper Mode, and yet, when they got exactly what they were asking for, with other goodies too, like pseudo boss mobs that buffed other mobs, or debuffed the players, it was "but this isn't what we wanted, it's stupid hard"...
I wouldn't expect them to build the game to my minimum standard of challenge, it would drive a lot of new players, some of whom may not have any MMO experience, or any action RPG experience, right out the door. Likely including some of the players that repeatedly post in these threads. It's a side effect of playing SP RPGs on Nightmare equivalents, progression raiding, and constant exposure to group content during my MMO career, until "recently", in quotes because it's relative, and has nothing to do with not wanting to, but being unable to due to my health.
Instead, I accept it for what it is, a vehicle to deliver the story aspect of the game, and a means to get to where the challenging content really lives, when I find I'm ready to do that, if I can. I had to walk away from Tera because of the flashy content that is endgame. It's hell on my migraines. It's also a contributing factor to why I'm not a regular feature in end game content.
Well I can respect that you are fine with how things are now, but speaking for myself and the people I know, it can get better (yes it's all anecdotal, but literally 100% of all people who I know IRL who have tried this game quit because they got bored.)
All I can do is plug away in forums like these, have others have done, and hopefully one day they'll do something. At this point I'm willing to accept almost anything that would break the monotony of their open world "combat".
It took almost a decade of forum rants over at Blizzard for the infamous "DERP you think you do but you don't!" company to finally cave and make vanilla servers. Hopefully one day Zenimax will spend the resources necessary to make a hardmode toggle (IMO it wouldn't take that many if done in a simple way).
I've said what I need to say, I'm pretty much done with this thread. Trying to leave on a good note, but it's hard to do so when so many posters aren't arguing in good faith, and are quite literally accusing me of being a liar, despite the fact that I've provided visual proof in the form of three different videos of what my experiences have been.
RIIIIIGHT, that's how I want to spend my time. Lying on forums for hours to convince devs to implement a feature I don't actually want. That makes sense!
Bye.
Yes, I did cite an example of someone that did just that. I didn't imply, or mean to, that you have, I'm simply stating that with that one example, and the fallacy of "all my friends/everyone I know", it's hard to take it at face value.
@asuzab16_ESO You're not wrong, but I also invited skepticism, in the very first lines of the post, specifically because it is anecdotal.1 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭StormeReigns wrote: »
My favorite part is the mention of being Skill-less, while utilizing skill. I.E: Years of accumulated knowledge of how certain mobs work, in this case gryphons and how to move to limit damage and avoid melee combat, spamming skull from range to maximize cheese to try to make point that every single new player will know this and will have the same outcome in every single encounter cause your personal experience dictates and defines every encounter for every single player.
my favorite part is that in the same breath he is claiming that wow classic is hard and it doesn't even occur to him to consider that the reason he is having hard time in wow and easy time in ESO is because he understands how to play ESo and is completely clueless when it comes to wow. that its knowledge of the game that makes the diffference.Edited by Linaleah on May 11, 2020 2:34PMdirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***1 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Here, I made this video earlier today, I'll post it JUST for you, pudding.
My naked, CP-less, skill-less brand new character with no stats and no buffs killing an elite enemy in the overworld, pressing two buttons: The directional arrow key "left", and the "1" key.
I finish the fight with 100% health.
EDIT: sorry, I forgot that I used break free once, or maybe twice, I don't remember. In case you accuse me of lying, or something.
EDIT 2: The resolution is awful, I think it takes some time for youtube to process it into 1080 quality...
Nice job. I remember I posted similar some months ago, and there were 2 occasional roll-dodges (I didn't even need them, it was just subconscious action), and same opponents told me - "A-HA! You roll-dodged, you can't kill enemy without roll-dodge! Newbies don't know how to use base game mechanics, so play like newbie!"
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Rave the Histborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭
So in other words, play like a complete beginner? Serious question, how does that not sound off to you guys? "If you wanna have fun in overland, play like a complete beginner who is completely new to the game."
"If you wanna have fun in overland, play like a complete beginner who is completely new to the game."
Imagine being a vet player and saying something like this 😅😅. Serious question, does it not sound off to you? " If you wanna have fun in ESO, set the tutorial and overland difficulty to match the endgame."
Imagine if you said this irl, "If you wanna have fun in 1st grade math, solve like a complete beginner who is completely new to math"
Now, just so you know for when you actually get to endgame there's all this content made specifically for you (woweeee really????? You mean I don't have to just spend my time on overland??????). That is the content specifically geared to you.0 -
Robo_Hobo✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm pleasantly surprised to see this thread still going strong. Usually, these types of threads don't get much discussion and fall to the depths of the forums. Just keep going strong, and maybe eventually we'll get a bone thrown our way.
Until then I'm gonna go get drunk, use a gamepad because I'm not used to using one for ESO, turn off CP, nerf my character's armor and weapons to Oblivion, starve them of food buffs, change some other settings to make it harder on myself (first person, no combat cues, etc) and go do some quests, because that's the only way the mighty powerful antagonist that threatens the world will have a chance of killing me.2 -
Rave the Histborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I'm saying it's really easy for people who aren't terrible.
That's why we need a difficulty OPTION.
I didn't say (nor have I EVER said) that it should be hardmode for everyone.
I'm saying if that if you cannot do this content, then you aren't good at video games. That's fine, there are other things in life that I am also terrible at that those people excel at.
But in this video game it would be nice if we had a difficulty toggle so that people who aren't terrible at it can make things challenging and dangerous, so it would be more engaging.
Again you're trying to make this straw-man argument that I just want to up the difficulty of everything, everywhere for everyone without any consideration of newbies or baddies.
When I started this game it was horribly easy. When I tried this game again with a different class it was very very easy for me. When I came several months later it was still very easy. When Tamriel Unlimited came out - astoundingly - it became even easier. For me, and for the majority of players who aren't bad.
Of course there is a percentage of players who are bad. Only an idiot would think otherwise, and I am not an idiot. Quit trying to make me out to be one, and just acknowledge that a very large portion of players - impossible to say what percentage, my gut tells me that it's two thirds, at least (probably more like 90 percent) - has no trouble WHATSOEVER with this mindless content.
So I'm confused, do you think adding a debuff on to yourself is going to make an enemy that you can hold left and light attack more difficult or just take longer? It sounds like if you add 1 million hp to it then you're still going to be doing the same thing just for significantly longer and that isn't increased difficulty. I think thats a major disconnect for the overland difficulty crowd, the reality that more hp doesn't = more difficulty, because in your own words, "I forgot that I used break free once, or maybe twice, I don't remember." you're not going to be challenged on overland by mechanics.
My other problem is the constant thinking they need to be rewarded for everything they do. You don’t need or deserve extra rewards because you intentionally gimped yourself and made a normal enemy take longer.1 -
Isarii✭✭✭✭
I actually disagree with your premise here - one of the problems with overland difficulty right now is that everything is easily killed before mobs or bosses even have a chance to use any abilities. As a result, raising TTK even moderately would result in a tangible difficulty increase because the mechanics that never even have a chance to be seen now would be re-introduced.Rave the Histborn wrote: »
So I'm confused, do you think adding a debuff on to yourself is going to make an enemy that you can hold left and light attack more difficult or just take longer? It sounds like if you add 1 million hp to it then you're still going to be doing the same thing just for significantly longer and that isn't increased difficulty. I think thats a major disconnect for the overland difficulty crowd, the reality that more hp doesn't = more difficulty, because in your own words, "I forgot that I used break free once, or maybe twice, I don't remember." you're not going to be challenged on overland by mechanics.
My other problem is the constant thinking they need to be rewarded for everything they do. You don’t need or deserve extra rewards because you intentionally gimped yourself and made a normal enemy take longer.
That said, I don't think anyone is asking for something as limited as just raising the mob HP pool. Ideally a harder mode world tier would include:- Higher TTK (duh)
- Higher mob damage
- Faster cast on mob abilities and heavy attacks
- Higher damage on avoidable mechanics like the above
No one is asking for Dark Souls combat here, but even something as simple as just making mobs live long enough to use a heavy attack and making that heavy attack actually punishing if not blocked would be a huge improvement over the current overland combat.
Players need to have some reason to react to what their PvE opponents are doing. Any reason at all. That's the core of what needs to change.Isarii Aloroth - PC-NA | Ebonheart Pact | Dunmer | Magicka Nightblade3 -
newtinmpls✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
You are seriously telling me that new players won't know about the directional arrow keys?
Now that's just unkind.
"Knowing" the directional keys, and being able to use them smoothly and effectively in combat without really thinking about are very very different things.
I realize this conversation is emotionally intense for you. Combat is the same for some of us. And during such a situation it's easy to "lose one's cool."
I urge you not to do so.Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.***Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis1 -
KaGaOri✭✭✭✭newtinmpls wrote: »
Now that's just unkind.
"Knowing" the directional keys, and being able to use them smoothly and effectively in combat without really thinking about are very very different things.
I realize this conversation is emotionally intense for you. Combat is the same for some of us. And during such a situation it's easy to "lose one's cool."
I urge you not to do so.
With risk of looking like complete dork - yes, using the directional keys + abilities' keys + bar swap was the biggest challenge in the game for me as a completely new player (never played MMO, played very little of anything else in the past). I can either move well or shoot well. Mobs go down in 2 - 3 hits and delve / public dungeon bosses don't give me much problem either, but send on me group of something in tight space with obstacles and I'll have hard time (or die). For example - I've done (solo) Lost Village in Coldharbour couple days back: Bosses? No problem (as soon as I found them). Group event? Took bit of strategizing, but also no problem. The rest of the dungeon (narrow bridges, tiny islands full of stuff to stumble into)? That's a deathtrap for me. It's not like I'm not getting better at this, but even after three months I still fail to bar swap, or fire wrong ability, get stuck on pile of rocks, run or dodgeroll into area damage ...1 -
Rave the Histborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭I actually disagree with your premise here - one of the problems with overland difficulty right now is that everything is easily killed before mobs or bosses even have a chance to use any abilities. As a result, raising TTK even moderately would result in a tangible difficulty increase because the mechanics that never even have a chance to be seen now would be re-introduced.
That said, I don't think anyone is asking for something as limited as just raising the mob HP pool. Ideally a harder mode world tier would include:- Higher TTK (duh)
- Higher mob damage
- Faster cast on mob abilities and heavy attacks
- Higher damage on avoidable mechanics like the above
No one is asking for Dark Souls combat here, but even something as simple as just making mobs live long enough to use a heavy attack and making that heavy attack actually punishing if not blocked would be a huge improvement over the current overland combat.
Players need to have some reason to react to what their PvE opponents are doing. Any reason at all. That's the core of what needs to change.
You keep trying to compare ESO to other games but you don't seem to realize games that have changed their TTK do so to overwhelmingly negative responses.
Just because I suddenly get bashed more often doesn't make my combat more difficult, I can still nuke things down, it does however make it way more annoying. That's why vet dungeons and trials exist, because mechanics are supposed to more than just relentlessly stunning you.0
