Why is this game so easy?

Nomadic_Atmoran · May 2020

eKsDee wrote: »

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starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

My wife just started playing ESO with a new account, character, everything. When you don't have a few years of CP, gold and most importantly, crafting mats stored up, overland can be challenging. People tend to forget what it's like playing without 810cp. If overland was much tougher, new players would have no chance.

Again. Read the thread before posting. At least the last 2-3 pages. Nobody is asking for a universal increase in overland difficulty. We're asking for optional increases, that only affect individual players.

And a loot table change to boot. Which is the real prize here for anyone pushing for these changes.

Dahveed · May 2020

robertthebard wrote: »

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Dahveed wrote: »

asuzab16_ESO wrote: »

I personally believe it does and I would like to see ESO and WoW (and future MMOs) bring back impactful decision making and stop assuming that casuals / new players are not good enough to (learn how to) take the right decisions and that 90+% of the game, the whole open world, needs to be dumbed down because of that.

What really irritates me is that people forget the fact that WoW became one of the most successful, lucrative and wildly popular video game perhaps EVER in the history of planet Earth back before Cataclysm came out, when vanilla leveling was still fundamentally unchanged (aside from a few minor tweaks and class rebalances).

People died all the time, I died all the time. Level cap was 80 when I first started and it took me literally months to get there, but that didn't push me away, it didn't push my friends away, and it didn't push away the something like 10 or 12 millions subs they had at their peak.

I used to run alts all the time before Cataclysm came out, because I wanted to explore, quest and BG with all the different class mechanics to shake things up.

I only have one alt in ESO and I rarely play him (I just wanted to do Thieves Guild and DB quests on a sneaky type). I made a Necromancer partly for fun, and partly to make the video demo I linked in this thread, and all I'm doing on that guy is just pressing literally one button over and over again until my magicka runs out then autoattacking.

There are literally no decisions to make. It's terrible.

As I remember it, WoW got really popular for dumbing down the game because people were complaining it was too hard. Now, I can't be sure of the time frame, I never played, because I was inundated with "if you don't make this more like WoW it's going to fail" or "this is just another WoW clone" in posts that had to be edited by moderators for whatever reasons... I mean, when they're in the closed beta forums of Aion, it's an issue, and I decided early on, I didn't want to be a part of that community. I mean, there was even a tin foil hat theory that they were paid by Blizzard to do it. There's tin foil hat theories for everything, it seems.

I come across dead people a lot, and I come across people that would have been dead if I didn't help them. I haven't been dead all the time, but at this stage in my gaming history, I'd be surprised if any game's OW stuff, aside from PvP, could kill me. I've been playing these games for around 20 years, and I've been a progression raider in all three trinity roles. I make plenty of decisions during questing overland, and plenty of decisions when it comes to what gear sets and what skills I use. I guess that's the advantage of not using someone else's template for what my character should be? I've never been very good at following the herd though, which is, in and of itself, a decision. So sorry, hyperbole isn't going to persuade me.

What hyperbole?

WoW was a cultural phenomenon that was one of the first video games to even bleed into mainstream culture. It was perhaps the most successful video game on the planet at its peak during WotLK times. I can't say for sure if OW questing was easier or more difficult than vanilla exactly, I just know that compared to what it is now, it was brutal and took forever to get to 80. Yet that is when 12 million people played it.

I can also talk about my subjective experience. I've also been gaming for almost 40 years. I was there for WoW, ESO and all the single player Atari and 25cent arcade stuff back in the day.

And I'm telling you according to my subjective experience in OW ESO, it's all a pathetic joke. Did you not watch the short ESO video I posted?

Watch that video and discuss with me all the "decisions" I had to make to stay alive while my unleveled, naked, CP-less, weapon-less, skill-less character stood there for two full minutes at 100% health while a "terror bird" (wow such terror!) attacked me repeatedly while I literally just stood there doing nothing. That isn't hyperbole, you can watch the video and watch my naked character doing literally nothing and staying at literally full health for the entire fight.

robertthebard · May 2020

Dahveed wrote: »

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robertthebard wrote: »

Dahveed wrote: »

asuzab16_ESO wrote: »

I personally believe it does and I would like to see ESO and WoW (and future MMOs) bring back impactful decision making and stop assuming that casuals / new players are not good enough to (learn how to) take the right decisions and that 90+% of the game, the whole open world, needs to be dumbed down because of that.

What really irritates me is that people forget the fact that WoW became one of the most successful, lucrative and wildly popular video game perhaps EVER in the history of planet Earth back before Cataclysm came out, when vanilla leveling was still fundamentally unchanged (aside from a few minor tweaks and class rebalances).

People died all the time, I died all the time. Level cap was 80 when I first started and it took me literally months to get there, but that didn't push me away, it didn't push my friends away, and it didn't push away the something like 10 or 12 millions subs they had at their peak.

I used to run alts all the time before Cataclysm came out, because I wanted to explore, quest and BG with all the different class mechanics to shake things up.

I only have one alt in ESO and I rarely play him (I just wanted to do Thieves Guild and DB quests on a sneaky type). I made a Necromancer partly for fun, and partly to make the video demo I linked in this thread, and all I'm doing on that guy is just pressing literally one button over and over again until my magicka runs out then autoattacking.

There are literally no decisions to make. It's terrible.

As I remember it, WoW got really popular for dumbing down the game because people were complaining it was too hard. Now, I can't be sure of the time frame, I never played, because I was inundated with "if you don't make this more like WoW it's going to fail" or "this is just another WoW clone" in posts that had to be edited by moderators for whatever reasons... I mean, when they're in the closed beta forums of Aion, it's an issue, and I decided early on, I didn't want to be a part of that community. I mean, there was even a tin foil hat theory that they were paid by Blizzard to do it. There's tin foil hat theories for everything, it seems.

I come across dead people a lot, and I come across people that would have been dead if I didn't help them. I haven't been dead all the time, but at this stage in my gaming history, I'd be surprised if any game's OW stuff, aside from PvP, could kill me. I've been playing these games for around 20 years, and I've been a progression raider in all three trinity roles. I make plenty of decisions during questing overland, and plenty of decisions when it comes to what gear sets and what skills I use. I guess that's the advantage of not using someone else's template for what my character should be? I've never been very good at following the herd though, which is, in and of itself, a decision. So sorry, hyperbole isn't going to persuade me.

What hyperbole?

WoW was a cultural phenomenon that was one of the first video games to even bleed into mainstream culture. It was perhaps the most successful video game on the planet at its peak during WotLK times. I can't say for sure if OW questing was easier or more difficult than vanilla exactly, I just know that compared to what it is now, it was brutal and took forever to get to 80. Yet that is when 12 million people played it.

I can also talk about my subjective experience. I've also been gaming for almost 40 years. I was there for WoW, ESO and all the single player Atari and 25cent arcade stuff back in the day.

And I'm telling you according to my subjective experience in OW ESO, it's all a pathetic joke. Did you not watch the short ESO video I posted?

Watch that video and discuss with me all the "decisions" I had to make to stay alive while my unleveled, naked, CP-less, weapon-less, skill-less character stood there for two full minutes at 100% health while a "terror bird" (wow such terror!) attacked me repeatedly while I literally just stood there doing nothing. That isn't hyperbole, you can watch the video and watch my naked character doing literally nothing and staying at literally full health for the entire fight.

It's pretty clear, if you read the post I quoted, and my own post. I'll highlight the response for you, so you can maybe figure out what I'm referring to. Just for laughs though: you made a decision to try your little experiment? Oh wait, probably not, someone had a gun on you, and made you do it? I bet you made a decision to avoid any mobs that could have killed you to, right? I'm not even talking WBs here, I wonder how long you'd have lasted against a troll? What about a griffon? Or those Indriks? Yeah, lots of decisions made for the sake of "but, we need challenge"...

Lysette · May 2020

i will throw something else into the discussion. i would absolutely be for a higher difficulty, if there would not be mobs every few steps - the "excitement every 15 seconds" rule or similar is making me not want to have any challenge in the game, because it is really annoying to the point that I'm getting tired of having to fight at all and rather play something else. A map full of mobs every few meters is just a horrible design and requires to be able to kill them in just a few hits.

KaGaOri · May 2020

starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

My wife just started playing ESO with a new account, character, everything. When you don't have a few years of CP, gold and most importantly, crafting mats stored up, overland can be challenging. People tend to forget what it's like playing without 810cp. If overland was much tougher, new players would have no chance.

As a total beginner (had ESO for about 3 months, never played MMO before, played less than ten single player RPGs spread through out last two decades = not a gamer) who mostly plays solo for the story stuff I have to agree with this post. I struggled with controls a lot at the start, my gear was trash and had to figure out which abilities would be useful and when and don't let me start on things like crafting. The game became much easier for me since then - I've found playstyle that works for me, got set pieces and buff food and I don't stumble into obstacles and red as much. Right now (360+ CP) if wanting challenge I do public dungeons (solo including bosses and group event) and may even find courage to queue for first group dungeon one of these days. I totally understand it may be frustrating to experienced MMO players or people who were with ESO since launch, but at the moment I'm glad the game is as "easy" as it is, though that opinion may change once I have 810 CP, get second character etc.

BTW not big fan of homicidal wildlife everywhere either - especialy while trying to get from point A to point B with mobs' willingness to give chase to the end of Oblivion, but running after one hit once I've dismounted to deal with them. What BS AI is that?

Feizao · May 2020

Dolmens use to be fun, but then i hit CP now they're just in the way. i actually used the prisms to restore my resources during the encounter

Everest_Lionheart · May 2020

KaGaOri wrote: »

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starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

My wife just started playing ESO with a new account, character, everything. When you don't have a few years of CP, gold and most importantly, crafting mats stored up, overland can be challenging. People tend to forget what it's like playing without 810cp. If overland was much tougher, new players would have no chance.

As a total beginner (had ESO for about 3 months, never played MMO before, played less than ten single player RPGs spread through out last two decades = not a gamer) who mostly plays solo for the story stuff I have to agree with this post. I struggled with controls a lot at the start, my gear was trash and had to figure out which abilities would be useful and when and don't let me start on things like crafting. The game became much easier for me since then - I've found playstyle that works for me, got set pieces and buff food and I don't stumble into obstacles and red as much. Right now (360+ CP) if wanting challenge I do public dungeons (solo including bosses and group event) and may even find courage to queue for first group dungeon one of these days. I totally understand it may be frustrating to experienced MMO players or people who were with ESO since launch, but at the moment I'm glad the game is as "easy" as it is, though that opinion may change once I have 810 CP, get second character etc.

BTW not big fan of homicidal wildlife everywhere either - especialy while trying to get from point A to point B with mobs' willingness to give chase to the end of Oblivion, but running after one hit once I've dismounted to deal with them. What BS AI is that?

Those jackals, wolves, spiders, tigers and beetles are all very territorial. They don’t seem to care though even if I am bringing a bear to the fight. Seriously what is a jackal or beetle going to do against a bear. I guess bears need to eat, but it should hunt for its own dinner and not the other way around.

Another thing about wildlife in these games, not just ESO but all games with aggressive wildlife in general that I have noticed is that those creatures have a better chance to actually do some damage to you than actual humanoid characters which I find hilarious. A pack of wild animals can knock a few HP off me in seconds but 3 archers and 2 mages are lucky to get 1 hit on me before I end their collective lives.

newtinmpls · May 2020

Foefaller wrote: »

You are pulling enemies and fighting only one or two at a time whenever possible, right?.

This is a really good example of strategic thinking that comes without thought to a very experienced/combat skilled player and doesn't even occur to a newer one.

So the very same situation, would be quite easy for the skilled player - because of strategy, and much harder for the new player, because of lack of strategic thinking (or maybe strategic over-learning is more accurate, though clunkier to say).

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

They've already tried a vet overland region, it was Craglorn before they revised it into what it is now. It was meant for vet groups but didn't get much use because, shockingly, the vets and people able to do the content thought it was too hard.

Which demonstrates that ZoS tries different types of content, and when it's not being used - which demonstrates that isn't what people want - then they change it.

Although I do miss the semi-ceremonial "can I go to Craglorn and survive fighting a group of wasps" which was kind of a rite of passage for becoming a badass vet character.

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Also, why can't overland be a part of the endgame by making it fun for everyone to go back to? We know for a fact that it perfectly worked in old MMOs

Interesting how "fun" by it's very nature is an opinion, not a fact, as it's subjective, not objective.

And as this discussion has very much demonstrated - "fun for everyone" is not a possible thing. Many fun options to maximize the possibility that most folks will like some of it seems to be as close as anyone can get.

Rave the Histborn · May 2020

newtinmpls wrote: »

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Foefaller wrote: »

You are pulling enemies and fighting only one or two at a time whenever possible, right?.

This is a really good example of strategic thinking that comes without thought to a very experienced/combat skilled player and doesn't even occur to a newer one.

So the very same situation, would be quite easy for the skilled player - because of strategy, and much harder for the new player, because of lack of strategic thinking (or maybe strategic over-learning is more accurate, though clunkier to say).
show previous quotes

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

They've already tried a vet overland region, it was Craglorn before they revised it into what it is now. It was meant for vet groups but didn't get much use because, shockingly, the vets and people able to do the content thought it was too hard.

Which demonstrates that ZoS tries different types of content, and when it's not being used - which demonstrates that isn't what people want - then they change it.

Although I do miss the semi-ceremonial "can I go to Craglorn and survive fighting a group of wasps" which was kind of a rite of passage for becoming a badass vet character.
show previous quotes

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Also, why can't overland be a part of the endgame by making it fun for everyone to go back to? We know for a fact that it perfectly worked in old MMOs

Interesting how "fun" by it's very nature is an opinion, not a fact, as it's subjective, not objective.

And as this discussion has very much demonstrated - "fun for everyone" is not a possible thing. Many fun options to maximize the possibility that most folks will like some of it seems to be as close as anyone can get.

That last part is the other guy's quote that I was answering

Universe · May 2020

460 comments, 9.4K views and counting.
This is a clear evidence that ESO difficulty is controversial at best and is too easy for many players...

Dahveed · May 2020

Lysette wrote: »

i will throw something else into the discussion. i would absolutely be for a higher difficulty, if there would not be mobs every few steps - the "excitement every 15 seconds" rule or similar is making me not want to have any challenge in the game, because it is really annoying to the point that I'm getting tired of having to fight at all and rather play something else. A map full of mobs every few meters is just a horrible design and requires to be able to kill them in just a few hits.

I also agree with this, but unfortunately it's way too late for that. They would have to go back and edit literally every zone in the game, and there's no way that's happening.

But I get what you mean, I also prefer it when open world games are truly "open", without npcs and activities/points of interest every few meters, so you can feel "lost".

newtinmpls · May 2020

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

That last part is the other guy's quote that I was answering

Thanks for the correction - I appreciate it.

Rave the Histborn · May 2020

Universe wrote: »

460 comments, 9.4K views and counting.
This is a clear evidence that ESO difficulty is controversial at best and is too easy for many players...

How did you get from the thread when most people are posting that they don't want a higher difficulty 🤔🤔🤔🤔

Universe · May 2020

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

show previous quotes

Universe wrote: »

460 comments, 9.4K views and counting.
This is a clear evidence that ESO difficulty is controversial at best and is too easy for many players...

How did you get from the thread when most people are posting that they don't want a higher difficulty 🤔🤔🤔🤔

Most ?
I didn't read every comment here obviously, that's the issue with such a long discussion but I read about 100 of the comments xD

Though it is obvious that if this discussion got so much attention, it is clear that the overland difficulty isn't exactly great in ESO, at least for many.
I didn't post "most", I post "many".
The "many" can be 40% too.

Everest_Lionheart · May 2020

Dahveed wrote: »

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Lysette wrote: »

i will throw something else into the discussion. i would absolutely be for a higher difficulty, if there would not be mobs every few steps - the "excitement every 15 seconds" rule or similar is making me not want to have any challenge in the game, because it is really annoying to the point that I'm getting tired of having to fight at all and rather play something else. A map full of mobs every few meters is just a horrible design and requires to be able to kill them in just a few hits.

I also agree with this, but unfortunately it's way too late for that. They would have to go back and edit literally every zone in the game, and there's no way that's happening.

But I get what you mean, I also prefer it when open world games are truly "open", without npcs and activities/points of interest every few meters, so you can feel "lost".

It would actually be nice if there was more stuff to actually immerse yourself into out in the environment. Your choices are fight, farm and talk to NPC’s. Other than that it’s pretty much a hike through Tamriel looking at scenery, which is quite good in some places but lacking in the interaction department.

I think they also missed the boat on classes like warden. For a class that is so connected to nature you get no special connection to it other than to able to wield some nature magic. It would be nice if it came with a few different ways to engage the creatures of Tamriel. Tame a pack of wolves, ride a mammoth across Wrothgar, conjure something vines to climb the cliffs to reach places with even better views of the land. There could be so much more to this class outside of running around with a bear while doing shrooms and sending birds and bugs to kill stuff. Let me be one with nature!

tomofhyrule · May 2020

I'm pretty okay with the overland difficulty. They're wolves, I shouldn't have to get in a battle for my life while I'm just trying to get some wood for crafting. If I want a challenge, I'll go into a dungeon. I don't need Tamriel to have Australia-level death creatures every 3 feet.

I just got to the CP levels, and that significantly changed up my gameplay. I play a tank, so I've noticed that I'm hitting like a wet noodle now. I can't imagine anything less fun than making the generic enemies more spongy than they already are. Remember: not everyone plays a 50k DPS beast. Granted, since I'm a tank I can take everything they dish out as well, but there are some fights with a set of crocodiles that can go on for way longer than I'd like them to. I just can't imagine it'd be fun to fight a group of crocodiles for 5 minutes since neither of us are doing much damage to the other, or worse - be in a circumstance where I can't finish the zone story since there are murder hornets in the way.

And yeah, I'm a noob. I can't farm a BiS DPS gear set (also I'm not good enough to do that because I'm new to MMOs in general and also don't have a BiS gear set...classic catch-22) and then mow down mobs like a knife through hot butter. Of course someone with max CP and gear is gonna be an overworld overlord. But me? I soloed a dolmen once and managed to not die soloing the Plague Husk WB in Deshaan for about half his health before someone else ran over and helped out. I'm not as good as most of the people here, and I'm okay with that. I don't like the idea of gatekeeping players like me out though - there's already plenty of endgame content (vet dungeons, trials, etc) that we can't do.

Rave the Histborn · May 2020

Universe wrote: »

show previous quotes

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Universe wrote: »

460 comments, 9.4K views and counting.
This is a clear evidence that ESO difficulty is controversial at best and is too easy for many players...

How did you get from the thread when most people are posting that they don't want a higher difficulty 🤔🤔🤔🤔

Most ?
I didn't read every comment here obviously, that's the issue with such a long discussion but I read about 100 of the comments xD
Though it is obvious that if this discussion got so much attention something it is clear that the overland difficulty isn't exactly great in ESO, at least for many.

You might wanna go back and read them because I guess if the same 5 people post 100 times then that's clear evidence XD They also don't wanna hear about vet Trials and Dungeons (because they can't dispute their existence for them)

How do you know those views and comments all came because overland difficulty isn't great? Maybe they came for the opposite reason. Point is you're trying to declare a victory for yourself and yourside when you haven't won anything (shocked) and you haven't proposed any new or unique ideas, it's just the same recycles nonsense: "single player games have difficulty sliders, this is my 14th mmo in 20 years and it isn't hard anymore because I'm too experienced, etc."

Do you look at little kids matching shapes and think to yourself "Why is this content only meant for them? They need to make it harder for someone like me so I can also match shapes"?

Overland content is matching shapes and adding in more "complex" shapes isn't going to make it any more "difficult" for anyone that already knows what they're doing

Universe · May 2020

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

show previous quotes

Universe wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Universe wrote: »

460 comments, 9.4K views and counting.
This is a clear evidence that ESO difficulty is controversial at best and is too easy for many players...

How did you get from the thread when most people are posting that they don't want a higher difficulty 🤔🤔🤔🤔

Most ?
I didn't read every comment here obviously, that's the issue with such a long discussion but I read about 100 of the comments xD
Though it is obvious that if this discussion got so much attention something it is clear that the overland difficulty isn't exactly great in ESO, at least for many.

You might wanna go back and read them because I guess if the same 5 people post 100 times then that's clear evidence XD They also don't wanna hear about vet Trials and Dungeons (because they can't dispute their existence for them)

How do you know those views and comments all came because overland difficulty isn't great? Maybe they came for the opposite reason. Point is you're trying to declare a victory for yourself and yourside when you haven't won anything (shocked) and you haven't proposed any new or unique ideas, it's just the same recycles nonsense: "single player games have difficulty sliders, this is my 14th mmo in 20 years and it isn't hard anymore because I'm too experienced, etc."

Do you look at little kids matching shapes and think to yourself "Why is this content only meant for them? They need to make it harder for someone like me so I can also match shapes"?

Overland content is matching shapes and adding in more "complex" shapes isn't going to make it any more "difficult" for anyone that already knows what they're doing

I didn't declare victory LOL.
I merely suggested that this subject is controversial and yes, many players do find the overland difficulty to be too easy.
I don't base my assumptions solely on this discussion.
If I'm going to suggest any game changes it won't be in page 16 of a mega discussion.

robertthebard · May 2020

Universe wrote: »

460 comments, 9.4K views and counting.
This is a clear evidence that ESO difficulty is controversial at best and is too easy for many players...

Controversial? I can run with that. Too easy for many players? Speculation, at best.

Suligost · May 2020

Make veteran mode for single player content (overland) - reward such players with higher drop rate, more exp and maybe something extra like motifs. Point is to make it hard as malestrom (npcs are dangerous, not blobs for dmg).

Games like Dark Souls relly purely on hard content - there is no plot etc, just juicy gameplay. Thats the problem with ESO, after quests (very simple ofcorse) there is no point to ever try it again or enjoy the content itself again as everything is just boring.

Everest_Lionheart · May 2020

tomofhyrule wrote: »

I'm pretty okay with the overland difficulty. They're wolves, I shouldn't have to get in a battle for my life while I'm just trying to get some wood for crafting. If I want a challenge, I'll go into a dungeon. I don't need Tamriel to have Australia-level death creatures every 3 feet.

I just got to the CP levels, and that significantly changed up my gameplay. I play a tank, so I've noticed that I'm hitting like a wet noodle now. I can't imagine anything less fun than making the generic enemies more spongy than they already are. Remember: not everyone plays a 50k DPS beast. Granted, since I'm a tank I can take everything they dish out as well, but there are some fights with a set of crocodiles that can go on for way longer than I'd like them to. I just can't imagine it'd be fun to fight a group of crocodiles for 5 minutes since neither of us are doing much damage to the other, or worse - be in a circumstance where I can't finish the zone story since there are murder hornets in the way.

And yeah, I'm a noob. I can't farm a BiS DPS gear set (also I'm not good enough to do that because I'm new to MMOs in general and also don't have a BiS gear set...classic catch-22) and then mow down mobs like a knife through hot butter. Of course someone with max CP and gear is gonna be an overworld overlord. But me? I soloed a dolmen once and managed to not die soloing the Plague Husk WB in Deshaan for about half his health before someone else ran over and helped out. I'm not as good as most of the people here, and I'm okay with that. I don't like the idea of gatekeeping players like me out though - there's already plenty of endgame content (vet dungeons, trials, etc) that we can't do.

CP10 (you get the first 10 at lv 50) up to CP160 (the gear cap) is where you’ll begin to run into any real danger outside of when you first start playing the game. The levels and damage are scaled to CP160. Players below lv50 get a hidden buff to balance the game for them so they don’t insta die while learning the game. It still happens mainly because people either fail mechanics or attempt to run away and path through extra mobs and get multiple enemies hitting them at once.

The CP levels that balancing is gone so your CP10 is facing CP160 without any assistance. Now not many things will be able to kill you but mistakes could be costly. Nothing that the occasional dodge roll or interrupt can’t easily take care of though. At around CP100 and when you have decent gear and have spent your CP into the appropriate stats to match your play style or cover your deficiencies you will easily overpower overland content. And frankly you should be able to to that. Delves fall I to this category too except they have a low level boss at the end with usually between 80K and 140K HP depending on which content you are playing. Those are still easy enough. Stay out of the red, interrupt when you can and you’ll beat them with very little effort. You’ll feel the power creep as you gain more CP and upgrade gear.

By 300CP only a few world bosses will stand in your way. Again this is also OK because basically you’ve over levelled the content by a wide margin. Of course you’ve still got maelstrom arena and group content that is very challenging, though base game group dungeons are not hard for groups that understand how to stay out of the red and attack competently enough. You don’t have to master weaving and animation cancelling to pass these even in vet mode, only have to know certain mechanics to avoid wiping. Some 4 man dungeons you may even be able to solo if you have a decent enough build and some decent skill. You don’t have to be a superstar though just understand the game and play above average.

DLC dungeons turn things up a notch. You’ll need to understand basic weaving and animation cancelling. You will also need to have a decent rotation and some gear sets. Even overland on DLC zones can be a bit tougher. Certain sections of the map in zones like Northern Elsweyr have enemies bunched closer together so it’s easier to accidentally pull a couple of groups if you aren’t careful. Now a CP100+ player you won’t care because at that point you are OP for overland but a fresh character running through the canyon of the scar pulling a couple small groups of enemies is dead for sure. Also DLC world bosses have more HP and harder mechanics and soloing them is very tough unless you are high CP. Vet and vet hard mode dungeons need a much higher CP because the DPS checks and mechanics can kill everyone in a hurry if they aren’t doing their job properly. You’ll need to master rotations to beat some of this content.

Maelstrom arena is an entirely different animal all together. And then there are trials. Both of these will test every tool you have in the bag. But that’s all endgame stuff which doesn’t take away from doing anything else in the game what so ever. You may need maelstrom weapons to be included in some of the DLC vet hard mode content, it’s not necessarily required but the DPS you gain almost certainly is.

I left out public dungeons they fit in wherever you choose to play them but even the DLC public dungeons are soloable by 100CP and that includes the group events provided you have decent gear and skills. By 300CP even average skill will melt 95% of the public dungeon content without impunity.

So you see there are certain steps in the difficulty level but with high CP comes a power creep that trivializes most of the game. I’m at 310CP myself and find the bulk of it easy but I’m OK with that because I’m still questing, farming and skyshard hunting and don’t need to under duress in the never ending Tamriel treasure hunt! But when I want a challenge I roll solo into a 4 man dungeon and test myself, curse a few times, move on to the next boss, curse a little more, die twice, change my skill setup, die again, kill that boss, die to the next mob because I forgot charge my skill bar back, kill that mob, change skill bar in advance of the next boss, wrong skill bar and die anyway, change again and win, collect crappy equipment and move on. Not sure I’ll ever be strong enough for vet content though because I always feel like I’m holding the groups back when I PUG the normal DLC dungeons that everyone is in a rush. Still doesn’t take away from the fun for me. So whether they change the difficulty or not it doesn’t really matter to me. I would like some challenge like tougher delves with solo instances but not holding out for anything like that.

Rave the Histborn · May 2020

Suligost wrote: »

Make veteran mode for single player content (overland) - reward such players with higher drop rate, more exp and maybe something extra like motifs. Point is to make it hard as malestrom (npcs are dangerous, not blobs for dmg).

Games like Dark Souls relly purely on hard content - there is no plot etc, just juicy gameplay. Thats the problem with ESO, after quests (very simple ofcorse) there is no point to ever try it again or enjoy the content itself again as everything is just boring.

The Souls series rewards are the difficulty though and you could say the same thing about that series as well unless you're really into it. Once you clear it once there's no reason to do it again and it's boring because you know all the traps and tactics already.

The way they keep it fresh is by adding new game+ which significantly increases difficulty but DOESN'T increased rewards because that would be counter to the point of the difficulty

newtinmpls · May 2020

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

I think they also missed the boat on classes like warden. For a class that is so connected to nature you get no special connection to it other than to able to wield some nature magic. It would be nice if it came with a few different ways to engage the creatures of Tamriel. Tame a pack of wolves, ride a mammoth across Wrothgar, conjure something vines to climb the cliffs to reach places with even better views of the land. There could be so much more to this class outside of running around with a bear while doing shrooms and sending birds and bugs to kill stuff.

Wow, these are incredible ideas!!

ElvenOverlord · May 2020

The same reason all the mirrors in your house break when you look at your face in them.

Path · May 2020

The OP is too good at games. He/She needs to be challenged. I wish I were as talented as you (ok, that is a lie) Suggestion, make it harder for yourself and consider the player base which is...kinda RPG.

So, run naked.

starkerealm · May 2020

robertthebard wrote: »

show previous quotes

Universe wrote: »

460 comments, 9.4K views and counting.
This is a clear evidence that ESO difficulty is controversial at best and is too easy for many players...

Controversial? I can run with that. Too easy for many players? Speculation, at best.

Too easy for experienced players is a groundball. In the entirely non-scientific krill sample of threads like this, if you're doing vet content even intermittently, overland won't challenge you in the slightest. Whether you have a problem with that or not is harder to nail down. You won't (often) see me complaining that overland is a faceroll, because sometimes that's what I'm there for. If I wanted to have my teeth kicked in, I'd hit vMHK and vMoS and start working towards that skin and personality.

Either way, "controversial," is a pretty good description for it.

Some really do want vet difficulty overland. I mean, I wouldn't say no to having the option for silver and gold difficulty on zones again. I actually miss how deserted silver zones were. But, blanket requests to crank up overland would punish newbies who are coming to grips, and the option of alternate versions of the zones would probably be way more work than it's worth. Though I can't say that with certainty.

Dahveed · May 2020

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

show previous quotes

Dahveed wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

i will throw something else into the discussion. i would absolutely be for a higher difficulty, if there would not be mobs every few steps - the "excitement every 15 seconds" rule or similar is making me not want to have any challenge in the game, because it is really annoying to the point that I'm getting tired of having to fight at all and rather play something else. A map full of mobs every few meters is just a horrible design and requires to be able to kill them in just a few hits.

I also agree with this, but unfortunately it's way too late for that. They would have to go back and edit literally every zone in the game, and there's no way that's happening.

But I get what you mean, I also prefer it when open world games are truly "open", without npcs and activities/points of interest every few meters, so you can feel "lost".

It would actually be nice if there was more stuff to actually immerse yourself into out in the environment. Your choices are fight, farm and talk to NPC’s. Other than that it’s pretty much a hike through Tamriel looking at scenery, which is quite good in some places but lacking in the interaction department.

I think they also missed the boat on classes like warden. For a class that is so connected to nature you get no special connection to it other than to able to wield some nature magic. It would be nice if it came with a few different ways to engage the creatures of Tamriel. Tame a pack of wolves, ride a mammoth across Wrothgar, conjure something vines to climb the cliffs to reach places with even better views of the land. There could be so much more to this class outside of running around with a bear while doing shrooms and sending birds and bugs to kill stuff. Let me be one with nature!

Class-specific quests (or even spec specific) would be awesome. That was one of the more sorely missed things for me when WoW Cataclysm came out, they took out the class quests to get core abilities. It added a lot more flavor to your class.

I feel like ESO class is purely cosmetic. You're still pressing the same buttons and doing all the same quests, but instead of whacking something with a club, you're shooting a blue thing out of a stick. The result is the same.

(I know I just described video games generally, but in ESO it's pretty egregious how little your class actually matters in OW.)

Dahveed · May 2020

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

show previous quotes

Universe wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Universe wrote: »

460 comments, 9.4K views and counting.
This is a clear evidence that ESO difficulty is controversial at best and is too easy for many players...

How did you get from the thread when most people are posting that they don't want a higher difficulty 🤔🤔🤔🤔

Most ?
I didn't read every comment here obviously, that's the issue with such a long discussion but I read about 100 of the comments xD
Though it is obvious that if this discussion got so much attention something it is clear that the overland difficulty isn't exactly great in ESO, at least for many.

You might wanna go back and read them because I guess if the same 5 people post 100 times then that's clear evidence XD They also don't wanna hear about vet Trials and Dungeons (because they can't dispute their existence for them)

How do you know those views and comments all came because overland difficulty isn't great? Maybe they came for the opposite reason. Point is you're trying to declare a victory for yourself and yourside when you haven't won anything (shocked) and you haven't proposed any new or unique ideas, it's just the same recycles nonsense: "single player games have difficulty sliders, this is my 14th mmo in 20 years and it isn't hard anymore because I'm too experienced, etc."

Do you look at little kids matching shapes and think to yourself "Why is this content only meant for them? They need to make it harder for someone like me so I can also match shapes"?

Overland content is matching shapes and adding in more "complex" shapes isn't going to make it any more "difficult" for anyone that already knows what they're doing

"single player games have difficulty sliders, this is my 14th mmo in 20 years and it isn't hard anymore because I'm too experienced, etc."

I get really tired of this old trope of people from your side of the argument turning ours into a straw man caricature as though we're all just morons.

We've stated repeatedly how we get NEW players into ESO to share our joy of this universe, people who have never played MMOs before and quit because it's too easy.

I have played 2 (two) MMOs in my entire life, WoW and ESO.

ESO is too easy. WoW is also too easy.

WoW classic is NOT too easy. I am playing it now and getting destroyed all the time. (I am a 10-12 year veteran of World of Warcraft, and RIGHT NOW, despite my decades of video game experience, every class I make gets repeatedly destroyed in the open world. My paladin, who has two bubbles, Lay on Hands (instant click full health), heavy armor and a stun, is level 17 and has died at least 25 times.

Yet when I roll naked alts in ESO I am practically unkillable, even without CP. I just now ran around naked on my level 4 necromancer and killed an elite eagle (cant' remember name) by pressing doing two things: holding down the left directional arrow, and pressing 1 when my mana bar wasn't empty.

Very innovative and thoughtful ideas are being proposed about how overland difficulty sliders (and the like) could be implemented, and indeed other MMOs have ALREADY implemented these ideas, and they work.

But just keep blocking your ears saying "la la la I don't hear you!" and then build your straw man to strike it down again next time the argument comes up. Because everyone who disagrees with you must be very stupid, right? Make us all sound as dumb as possible, that way people will agree with you.

EDIT - Just wanted to add, it's not entirely true I've only every played 2 MMOs, I have also tried Rift and LotRO, but quit after an hour or two each time because I quickly realized they follow the same pattern as all the rest, and that they, too, are too easy (i.e. nothing is ever dangerous in the OW). A large subset of players crave challenge and are put to sleep by the monotony of easy gameplay.

robertthebard · May 2020

Dahveed wrote: »

show previous quotes

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Universe wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Universe wrote: »

460 comments, 9.4K views and counting.
This is a clear evidence that ESO difficulty is controversial at best and is too easy for many players...

How did you get from the thread when most people are posting that they don't want a higher difficulty 🤔🤔🤔🤔

Most ?
I didn't read every comment here obviously, that's the issue with such a long discussion but I read about 100 of the comments xD
Though it is obvious that if this discussion got so much attention something it is clear that the overland difficulty isn't exactly great in ESO, at least for many.

You might wanna go back and read them because I guess if the same 5 people post 100 times then that's clear evidence XD They also don't wanna hear about vet Trials and Dungeons (because they can't dispute their existence for them)

How do you know those views and comments all came because overland difficulty isn't great? Maybe they came for the opposite reason. Point is you're trying to declare a victory for yourself and yourside when you haven't won anything (shocked) and you haven't proposed any new or unique ideas, it's just the same recycles nonsense: "single player games have difficulty sliders, this is my 14th mmo in 20 years and it isn't hard anymore because I'm too experienced, etc."

Do you look at little kids matching shapes and think to yourself "Why is this content only meant for them? They need to make it harder for someone like me so I can also match shapes"?

Overland content is matching shapes and adding in more "complex" shapes isn't going to make it any more "difficult" for anyone that already knows what they're doing

"single player games have difficulty sliders, this is my 14th mmo in 20 years and it isn't hard anymore because I'm too experienced, etc."

I get really tired of this old trope of people from your side of the argument turning ours into a straw man caricature as though we're all just morons.

We've stated repeatedly how we get NEW players into ESO to share our joy of this universe, people who have never played MMOs before and quit because it's too easy.

I have played 2 (two) MMOs in my entire life, WoW and ESO.

ESO is too easy. WoW is also too easy.

WoW classic is NOT too easy. I am playing it now and getting destroyed all the time. (I am a 10-12 year veteran of World of Warcraft, and RIGHT NOW, despite my decades of video game experience, every class I make gets repeatedly destroyed in the open world. My paladin, who has two bubbles, Lay on Hands (instant click full health), heavy armor and a stun, is level 17 and has died at least 25 times.

Yet when I roll naked alts in ESO I am practically unkillable, even without CP. I just now ran around naked on my level 4 necromancer and killed an elite eagle (cant' remember name) by pressing doing two things: holding down the left directional arrow, and pressing 1 when my mana bar wasn't empty.

Very innovative and thoughtful ideas are being proposed about how overland difficulty sliders (and the like) could be implemented, and indeed other MMOs have ALREADY implemented these ideas, and they work.

But just keep blocking your ears saying "la la la I don't hear you!" and then build your straw man to strike it down again next time the argument comes up. Because everyone who disagrees with you must be very stupid, right? Make us all sound as dumb as possible, that way people will agree with you.

EDIT - Just wanted to add, it's not entirely true I've only every played 2 MMOs, I have also tried Rift and LotRO, but quit after an hour or two each time because I quickly realized they follow the same pattern as all the rest, and that they, too, are too easy (i.e. nothing is ever dangerous in the OW). A large subset of players crave challenge and are put to sleep by the monotony of easy gameplay.

You'll excuse me for being skeptical, of course? Allow me to explain why that may be:

So I'm reading the DDO forums, and this very thread pops up. A player chimes in that his buddies all joined, F2P, and found the game bone numbingly easy, and went back to WoW. When pressed about how a bunch of F2P players were bound to find that the game was too easy, since they can only open quests on Normal, they claimed, well one of them was VIP, so they could open all the quests on Elite.

The bolded parts highlight what was wrong with his tale. He came in with a lie. Whether that lie was that he had friends or, that his friends all came in as F2P, or that they found the game too easy, it's really hard to say. Given the way the exchange morphed through pointing out the inconsistencies in his tale, it's really easy to just dismiss it out of hand. Given that people are prone to hyperbole to support their positions, especially if they're fighting for something they really want, and given that I've actually caught them out at it, as per my example here, I'm more than a little skeptical. It's even easier to be skeptical when we get things like fighting normal mobs, instead of finding more difficult mobs on the map to support "see, it's too easy" and claiming that nobody learns their classes because of it. I could go on, but I think it's pretty clear why I may be more than a tad bit skeptical about "well my friends".

Dahveed · May 2020

robertthebard wrote: »

show previous quotes

Dahveed wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Universe wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Universe wrote: »

460 comments, 9.4K views and counting.
This is a clear evidence that ESO difficulty is controversial at best and is too easy for many players...

How did you get from the thread when most people are posting that they don't want a higher difficulty 🤔🤔🤔🤔

Most ?
I didn't read every comment here obviously, that's the issue with such a long discussion but I read about 100 of the comments xD
Though it is obvious that if this discussion got so much attention something it is clear that the overland difficulty isn't exactly great in ESO, at least for many.

You might wanna go back and read them because I guess if the same 5 people post 100 times then that's clear evidence XD They also don't wanna hear about vet Trials and Dungeons (because they can't dispute their existence for them)

How do you know those views and comments all came because overland difficulty isn't great? Maybe they came for the opposite reason. Point is you're trying to declare a victory for yourself and yourside when you haven't won anything (shocked) and you haven't proposed any new or unique ideas, it's just the same recycles nonsense: "single player games have difficulty sliders, this is my 14th mmo in 20 years and it isn't hard anymore because I'm too experienced, etc."

Do you look at little kids matching shapes and think to yourself "Why is this content only meant for them? They need to make it harder for someone like me so I can also match shapes"?

Overland content is matching shapes and adding in more "complex" shapes isn't going to make it any more "difficult" for anyone that already knows what they're doing

"single player games have difficulty sliders, this is my 14th mmo in 20 years and it isn't hard anymore because I'm too experienced, etc."

I get really tired of this old trope of people from your side of the argument turning ours into a straw man caricature as though we're all just morons.

We've stated repeatedly how we get NEW players into ESO to share our joy of this universe, people who have never played MMOs before and quit because it's too easy.

I have played 2 (two) MMOs in my entire life, WoW and ESO.

ESO is too easy. WoW is also too easy.

WoW classic is NOT too easy. I am playing it now and getting destroyed all the time. (I am a 10-12 year veteran of World of Warcraft, and RIGHT NOW, despite my decades of video game experience, every class I make gets repeatedly destroyed in the open world. My paladin, who has two bubbles, Lay on Hands (instant click full health), heavy armor and a stun, is level 17 and has died at least 25 times.

Yet when I roll naked alts in ESO I am practically unkillable, even without CP. I just now ran around naked on my level 4 necromancer and killed an elite eagle (cant' remember name) by pressing doing two things: holding down the left directional arrow, and pressing 1 when my mana bar wasn't empty.

Very innovative and thoughtful ideas are being proposed about how overland difficulty sliders (and the like) could be implemented, and indeed other MMOs have ALREADY implemented these ideas, and they work.

But just keep blocking your ears saying "la la la I don't hear you!" and then build your straw man to strike it down again next time the argument comes up. Because everyone who disagrees with you must be very stupid, right? Make us all sound as dumb as possible, that way people will agree with you.

EDIT - Just wanted to add, it's not entirely true I've only every played 2 MMOs, I have also tried Rift and LotRO, but quit after an hour or two each time because I quickly realized they follow the same pattern as all the rest, and that they, too, are too easy (i.e. nothing is ever dangerous in the OW). A large subset of players crave challenge and are put to sleep by the monotony of easy gameplay.

You'll excuse me for being skeptical, of course? Allow me to explain why that may be:

So I'm reading the DDO forums, and this very thread pops up. A player chimes in that his buddies all joined, F2P, and found the game bone numbingly easy, and went back to WoW. When pressed about how a bunch of F2P players were bound to find that the game was too easy, since they can only open quests on Normal, they claimed, well one of them was VIP, so they could open all the quests on Elite.

The bolded parts highlight what was wrong with his tale. He came in with a lie. Whether that lie was that he had friends or, that his friends all came in as F2P, or that they found the game too easy, it's really hard to say. Given the way the exchange morphed through pointing out the inconsistencies in his tale, it's really easy to just dismiss it out of hand. Given that people are prone to hyperbole to support their positions, especially if they're fighting for something they really want, and given that I've actually caught them out at it, as per my example here, I'm more than a little skeptical. It's even easier to be skeptical when we get things like fighting normal mobs, instead of finding more difficult mobs on the map to support "see, it's too easy" and claiming that nobody learns their classes because of it. I could go on, but I think it's pretty clear why I may be more than a tad bit skeptical about "well my friends".

So... your argument is, "a guy lied to me once, so you must also be lying"?

You must be incredibly cynical. I have no idea whatsoever what you're on about with that other forum, I've never played that game.

I could just as easily use your logic, and say that the story you JUST told me is 100% fabricated.

All I can do is talk about my own experiences, and whether or not you believe me is your choice.

In my experience, ESO overworld is way too easy. Classic Wow's isn't.