Why is this game so easy?

max_only

I don’t think you’re a liar.
I’m saying experiences differ and what may seem easy to you, is not at all obvious to everyone else.

knightblaster

A difficulty slider is fine. But it should also make the rewards *less*, so as also to make things more difficult for the player. After all, it's all about increasing difficulty, isn't it?

starkerealm

knightblaster wrote: »

A difficulty slider is fine. But it should also make the rewards *less*, so as also to make things more difficult for the player. After all, it's all about increasing difficulty, isn't it?

Hilariously, I think The Witcher 3 did that. There's an XP penalty on Death March difficulty. "It's harder because you level more slowly," I guess.

seipher09

This games 200000% to easy. I'm tired of people saying it's fine for one reason. Because they can keep playing as it is right now with 0 downfall but give the players who want an increase in difficulty an option for a hard mode! Your worried it will split the population well according to you the games fine so no one would do it? Seems your scared you are not good at the game and fear everyone will leave you?

If not then why are you so against letting players get a change in difficulty. It will only make others happy while not affecting you killing things in one hit

starkerealm

Mortac wrote: »

It annoys me to no end. I want to play content that isn't tuned for a 5-year old. But it seems 90% of the PVE content is tuned for just that.

I'm going to go out on a limb, and suggest the answer is because you've probably put in excess of 1k hours into the game. At that point, you're perfectly attuned to difficulty that could be charitably described as crushing.

lucky_Sage

He hasn’t experienced end game pve but still all vet dungeons are easy except like 8 of them even those have all can basically be solod WHICH IS A HUGE PROBLEM THAT EVERYONE IGNORES NOT GROUP DUNGEON SHOULD BE SOLOD NOT EVEN ON NORMAL

thorwyn

The game is not easy. You are just an incredibly talented player with mad skillz.

/thread

newtinmpls

eKsDee wrote: »

You can quite literally run in all white gear, with no CP and only a single skill on bar, and still faceroll content.

I can't.

robertthebard

seipher09 wrote: »

This games 200000% to easy. I'm tired of people saying it's fine for one reason. Because they can keep playing as it is right now with 0 downfall but give the players who want an increase in difficulty an option for a hard mode! Your worried it will split the population well according to you the games fine so no one would do it? Seems your scared you are not good at the game and fear everyone will leave you?

If not then why are you so against letting players get a change in difficulty. It will only make others happy while not affecting you killing things in one hit

I'm saying I don't want to see them divert resources to something that they're ultimately going to have to devote a team to, because, despite the "but we need it", it's going to be "but they didn't do it right, so it's too hard", "it's not far enough, and needs to be tweaked", etc. etc., I've seen it all before. While we, as players can point and laugh at the sideshow, the devs, if they go this far, will have to divert resources that should be used on something else to this. There is no magic on/off switch, despite what ya'll seem to think.

Glurin

lucky_Sage wrote: »

He hasn’t experienced end game pve but still all vet dungeons are easy except like 8 of them even those have all can basically be solod WHICH IS A HUGE PROBLEM THAT EVERYONE IGNORES NOT GROUP DUNGEON SHOULD BE SOLOD NOT EVEN ON NORMAL

Eh, well, that depends. The possibility that they can be soloed is fine. Being soloed on a regular basis by tons of people could indicate a problem. Particularly if they are doing it so well that even were they in a group it wouldn't matter because nobody else could get a shot in anyway.

WoW had that problem for a while. Don't know what the state is now because I haven't been back in a very long time, but there were many times where I'd join a heroic dungeon group and end up just saying "*** it. Let em carry me." because everything was dead the instant we entered the room.

Bryath

I do 20k DPS on a good day, on my good toon, and overland is mind-numbingly easy. My wife does half that much and has awful reflexes to boot, and she rolls through it with no problems.
I don't know what the best solution is, every one I've seen has its problems, but it's crystal clear to me that the status quo is not working for a LOT of people, and its a damn shame given the strength of the storytelling and gorgeous environs in which we play.

lucky_Sage

Glurin wrote: »

show previous quotes

lucky_Sage wrote: »

He hasn’t experienced end game pve but still all vet dungeons are easy except like 8 of them even those have all can basically be solod WHICH IS A HUGE PROBLEM THAT EVERYONE IGNORES NOT GROUP DUNGEON SHOULD BE SOLOD NOT EVEN ON NORMAL

Eh, well, that depends. The possibility that they can be soloed is fine. Being soloed on a regular basis by tons of people could indicate a problem. Particularly if they are doing it so well that even were they in a group it wouldn't matter because nobody else could get a shot in anyway.

WoW had that problem for a while. Don't know what the state is now because I haven't been back in a very long time, but there were many times where I'd join a heroic dungeon group and end up just saying "*** it. Let em carry me." because everything was dead the instant we entered the room.

@Glurin it is still like that for all but the select for dlc
Dungeons mostly the 6 to 8 the last year or so the rest of steam rolled through

JayKwellen

Bryath wrote: »

I do 20k DPS on a good day, on my good toon, and overland is mind-numbingly easy. My wife does half that much and has awful reflexes to boot, and she rolls through it with no problems.
I don't know what the best solution is, every one I've seen has its problems, but it's crystal clear to me that the status quo is not working for a LOT of people, and its a damn shame given the strength of the storytelling and gorgeous environs in which we play.

Yeah.

Specifically regarding the story and environment, I feel the ease of play honestly cheapens it, and it's part of the reason I don't do any overland PvE in this game anymore. There's just...no satisfaction in it.

In PvP, if you're in a tough 1v1 or trying to survive a brutal siege, if you emerge victorious you just feel amazing. You get that "daaaaaaamn I just did that!" adrenaline running through you. The odds for once were actually stacked against you, but you still managed to come out on top. Overland PvE not so much.

There is a direct correlation between effort and satisfaction. The more effort you put into something, the better it feels to be successful. It's like the difference between winning a 1v1 game of basketball against a middle schooler versus a top college player. You beat the 13 year old, who cares? There was no effort required, no emotional and minimal physical investment needed. Beating the good player though? Now that's something to be proud of. Using another MMO as an example, I played WoW way back in the original Classic days. Overland could be tough, some bosses could absolutely bury you, but when you worked at it and finally managed to kill that mob who'd been terrorizing you it felt great. Like you actually achieved something worthwhile and were rewarded for your efforts.

Going back to the story, ESO's PvE is amazing in the regard. The problem is it's just so unfulfilling to the point of being completely immersion breaking. There's literally zero effort required. There's no reason to fear anything the world has to offer you. And, as a result, there's no reason to feel good about doing anything, because you didn't really have to try in the first place.

ESO could have the best PvE experience of any MMO easily, they just have to give us a reason to feel proud of our accomplishments first, which means creating an environment where a little effort is actually needed.

robertthebard

JayKwellen wrote: »

show previous quotes

Bryath wrote: »

I do 20k DPS on a good day, on my good toon, and overland is mind-numbingly easy. My wife does half that much and has awful reflexes to boot, and she rolls through it with no problems.
I don't know what the best solution is, every one I've seen has its problems, but it's crystal clear to me that the status quo is not working for a LOT of people, and its a damn shame given the strength of the storytelling and gorgeous environs in which we play.

Yeah.

Specifically regarding the story and environment, I feel the ease of play honestly cheapens it, and it's part of the reason I don't do any overland PvE in this game anymore. There's just...no satisfaction in it.

In PvP, if you're in a tough 1v1 or trying to survive a brutal siege, if you emerge victorious you just feel amazing. You get that "daaaaaaamn I just did that!" adrenaline running through you. The odds for once were actually stacked against you, but you still managed to come out on top. Overland PvE not so much.

There is a direct correlation between effort and satisfaction. The more effort you put into something, the better it feels to be successful. It's like the difference between winning a 1v1 game of basketball against a middle schooler versus a top college player. You beat the 13 year old, who cares? There was no effort required, no emotional and minimal physical investment needed. Beating the good player though? Now that's something to be proud of. Using another MMO as an example, I played WoW way back in the original Classic days. Overland could be tough, some bosses could absolutely bury you, but when you worked at it and finally managed to kill that mob who'd been terrorizing you it felt great. Like you actually achieved something worthwhile and were rewarded for your efforts.

Going back to the story, ESO's PvE is amazing in the regard. The problem is it's just so unfulfilling to the point of being completely immersion breaking. There's literally zero effort required. There's no reason to fear anything the world has to offer you. And, as a result, there's no reason to feel good about doing anything, because you didn't really have to try in the first place.

ESO could have the best PvE experience of any MMO easily, they just have to give us a reason to feel proud of our accomplishments first, which means creating an environment where a little effort is actually needed.

The bolded above is exactly where you should feel a sense of accomplishment. I've beaten a lot of video games in the past, from Mortal Kombat's shareware version to the main story here a couple of times. I've never felt "proud" of any of that. I was proud to complete basic training and AIT and successfully join the military. I was proud of completing my GED, and going on to some college. I was proud to pass the ASE certification for automotive service, and of being told that I was qualified to teach that portion of the classes when I went to school to improve my knowledge of the advanced systems in cars. I was proud when my step daughter went from a little hellion, that wasn't welcome anywhere in her mom's side of the family to a responsible adult with two children that are doing absolutely amazing. I'm not proud of anything I've done in games.

Perhaps this is an issue that's more to do with people forgetting that this is, at the end of the day, an RPG? From Baldur's Gate to now, RPG protagonists have always suffered from "I can do something nobody else can". Even in Dark Souls, where the combat is "what an accomplishment" hard, did nobody ever stop to marvel at the fact that none of the NPCs in that world could do what the PC did? What about Shepard? For millions of years the Reapers had been wreaking havoc on the galaxy, and then "BOOM, Shepard happens" and it's over? What about the Warden in DA Origins? They beat a Blight before it ever really got out of Ferelden. That's never been done before either. The TES games aren't immune either. Every NPC in the world is incompetent, and has to rely on the PC to get the job done, at least right up until the end of Oblivion anyway, where, for one fight, it's an NPC that wins the day, right? Of course, if not for the PC, they'd never have been in a position to do so. So overland being a breeze isn't really surprising, and despite the lamentations for "the old days", I'm betting that it's not all that different from today. Maybe we had to hit 'em three times, and had to dodge more often?

Overland is a vehicle for the story, nothing more. It's where the main/side quests take place with the goal of pushing a character to endgame, where the challenging content lives. It's not unique to ESO either. Leveling content was geared to get a player to endgame in every MMO I've ever played, from Aion to Rappelz, and everything in between. PvE in Aion was nothing to write home about, save for some group encounters that, when played at level, were supposed to be something to write home about. None of it's supposed to be especially hard. Anyone looking for that is barking up the wrong tree going to an MMO, because MMOs are all about that money, and they should be. That means they have to have the widest player base they can possibly get. My money isn't worth any more than someone that may be struggling with this content.

Optional toggles sound all well and good, until we start to consider development time required to build it, test it, and then maintain it. There's going to be the "it's not hard enough" and "it's too hard now" crowds as well, I've seen it happen, and as much as every MMO community wants to believe they're unique, and no other MMO has a community like them, they're wrong. Mostly because they've been in other MMOs before here, and after here. That may not apply to everyone, but there's a substantial number of players where it does apply. There aren't enough players in the world to have completely unique player bases in every game. So, things that happen on one forum are going to continue on to other forums. This thread, and the myriad of other threads exactly like it on this forum are on both the swtor and GW 2 forums as I type this. It has been on the DDO forums, along with the subsequent "it's too hard" and "It's not hard enough" threads. This is going to require a dedicated team, developers and QA, to maintain, or this thread, or one of it's counterparts, is going to be a continuous thing.

MartiniDaniels

Robert, if you don't feel anything when playing games, then what's reason to play?
ESO player base is adult, 95 if not 99% of us finished our education, participated in sports, served in military, have children, got a first and next N serious jobs and this in no way prevents to feel enjoyment when you deal with somebody of comparable skill in PVP or with hardcore experience in PVE.
You mention Shepard, I don't know why you should care about consistency checks related to Reapers, first time I completed ME2 Suicide Mission I just felt like similar things feel IRL. It was pure ecstasy. And despite all the nonsense in some missions of ME3, when Liara was hanging Shepard's name in a board of dead crew members, I literally cried. And you probably were telling (sitting in blue or green ending) - "I was in similar way put on ban list on DDO forums, so nothing to be touched about..."

karekiz

If the game is slow leveling - About the journey - Where logging on is about growing your character.

Then yes to difficult overland.

ESO PvE is not that.
ESO PvE is burn to endgame <be it dungeons or trials> ASAP.

You don't have hell levels. You don't have death penalties. You have way shrines everywhere with incredibly low costs.

And that is fine. This isn't EQ or Classic WoW.

Linaleah

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Robert, if you don't feel anything when playing games, then what's reason to play?
ESO player base is adult, 95 if not 99% of us finished our education, participated in sports, served in military, have children, got a first and next N serious jobs and this in no way prevents to feel enjoyment when you deal with somebody of comparable skill in PVP or with hardcore experience in PVE.
You mention Shepard, I don't know why you should care about consistency checks related to Reapers, first time I completed ME2 Suicide Mission I just felt like similar things feel IRL. It was pure ecstasy. And despite all the nonsense in some missions of ME3, when Liara was hanging Shepard's name in a board of dead crew members, I literally cried. And you probably were telling (sitting in blue or green ending) - "I was in similar way put on ban list on DDO forums, so nothing to be touched about..."

the thing is... suicide mission is not hard once you know exactly whom to send to do what. its extremely easy in fact (same applies to combat - once you know where all the spawns are, its easy to anticipate them and kill them quickly - its the same principle that allows people to speed run VMA). once you know how to game paragon/renegade score - there is NO challenge to it. I have kept all my followers alive EVEN without using paragon/renegade resolutions, because there is a math that tells you exactly will live and die in which combination

which... is kinda the point when it comes to people asking for more difficulty. no matter what developers might add - once you understand how it works - it becomes easier and less challenging. until its "boring" it is IMPOSSIBLE. to design something that stay challenging. i have seen plenty of people say that Dark Souls is easy... once you understand the timing of those blocks and dodges. which.. is also what makes ESO so easy for a good number of you. you know exactly when to block, when to dodge, when to interrupt, how to weave, you have your timing so well ingrained by this point that you do not have to think about it.

how. HOW do you fix something like that without dramatically changing how combat itself works?

P.S. when you know how classic wow works - it becomes easy too. because you do not need to attack things that are orange or red to you. you stick to yellow or even green. you know where the good spots to pull from are and kill things very quickly. if you run out of resources (or don't), that game has AUTO ATTACK. you just sit there, doing nothing, watching your character kill things without any of your imput. there are no dodge, or block mechanics and there is barely an interrupt, so there is usually more time to move out of the red, should you even need to move at all. the only way to make it harder on yourself is do the equivalent of removing all cp and gear and meleeing things to death in ESO.

MartiniDaniels

Linaleah, I meant first playthrough, when you know nothing, and several members of my squad died. Of course later I found that scheme, where it is shown that you shouldn't take Garrus (or any other tough 4-cost character) to last boss if you want to have 100% squad survival.
Also you are far fetching facts... even if you know all mechanics and have huge experience in other games, their hard difficulties simply will be easier manageable and sometimes exploitable, but it will be nowhere to close to ESO overland experience and exploits are considered good only for speedruns, for regular walkthroughs they are usually frowned upon with comments like "you may just open console and type cheat code instead of using that".

You have ESO overland in other games when you over-level the content. It's not about timing block/dodge whatever, it is simply when mobs lose any adequate chances to kill you if you won't stand still AFK. So simply put, in ESO your character over-levels content right from the start and then as "bonus for newbies" decreases, it is compensated by passives, new powerful abilities and then CP.
And you over-level content so hard, that you must remove ALL compensations and not just CP or "golden gear" to have experience where you will die after several mistakes.

robertthebard

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Robert, if you don't feel anything when playing games, then what's reason to play?
ESO player base is adult, 95 if not 99% of us finished our education, participated in sports, served in military, have children, got a first and next N serious jobs and this in no way prevents to feel enjoyment when you deal with somebody of comparable skill in PVP or with hardcore experience in PVE.
You mention Shepard, I don't know why you should care about consistency checks related to Reapers, first time I completed ME2 Suicide Mission I just felt like similar things feel IRL. It was pure ecstasy. And despite all the nonsense in some missions of ME3, when Liara was hanging Shepard's name in a board of dead crew members, I literally cried. And you probably were telling (sitting in blue or green ending) - "I was in similar way put on ban list on DDO forums, so nothing to be touched about..."

I play games for entertainment, and to get out of my head. This lockdown may be new for a lot of people, but for me, it's been my day to day for 15 years. When I'm logged in here, or GW/GW 2/swtor, or a myriad of SP games, almost 2.5 TBs of them across two platforms, I don't have to dwell on the stuff that's not going on in my life any more. No more midnight rides to the lake, just to watch the water flow, no more nights out with the boys, no more working. I get to get away from all of that, and it doesn't require sweating every encounter, nor feeling like a god amongst peasants, it just requires not being here, in this dark cave of an apartment I have to live due to my migraines. I take pride in the things in my life that I've actually accomplished, or contributed to. Pushing the right buttons, in the right order, isn't one of those things.

Everest_Lionheart

More food for thought as this thread goes well past 20 pages.

It’s seems many people that are involved in this conversations are not only the more seasoned vets of ESO but are also seasoned vets at a large number of other MMO’s, traditional RPG’s, action RPG’s and FPS games. I played all of those games for years myself and stopped gaming sometime around 2010 until I picked up an XB1 this past Christmas.

I have played ESO exclusively the that 2 months taking one toon to 310CP and recently starting a second this week with the intent of soloing some vet content eventually. I’m a solo player it’s my nature but the occasional BG battle is fun especially on my new toon even though he’s super weak right now.

So I’m my first 3.5 months back into gaming after 10 years off I played through and finished quite titles. My first was Jedi Fallen order. Started on normal eventually finished on the second to hardest level. Only found 2 or 3 bosses challenging. The rest was easy peasy. Played a little Diablo 3 for the nostalgia, fun game not so hard though was good for some mindless face wrecking, admittedly I haven’t progressed too far into it but there is no threat of ever dying there either because the mechanics aren’t that difficult. Maybe upping the difficulty would do the trick but one thing I hate it’s bullet sponges.

I downloaded and binged through Hellblade Senua’s Sacrifice in a weekend because the story is that good. Nothing terribly difficult there either once you get the timing. Similar to Jedi just different buttons on the controller. A bit smoother I found as well but again once you get mechanics no amount of difficulty makes it any harder. In fact when the games juice things like enemy speed or aggression I find them easier because I don’t over anticipate. All those years before o quit gaming playing Battlefield and COD with my friends gave me sharp reflexes I guess. Kind of like riding a bike just took time to get my hand eye back.

From there I invested a massive amount of time in FO4. Some 350 hours clearing through all but Nuka World DLC and only quit because my game bugged out. Managed to keep everyone alive but won’t let me turn in a particular quest until I kill one of the factions. Was planning to use Nuka to kill all the factions. Anyway after some serious bumps in the beginning I didn’t find much challenge especially once I started allocating my perks. Sounds a lot like this game.

From there I went hard into AC Odyssey where I put some 150 hours into the game and stopped. Found a few challenging boss fights there but nothing very punitive. By the time you hit mastery levels in AC odyssey you are already ridiculously OP and mastery just pushes the power creep to a whole other level. Then again you are a demigod so even when you play DLC against the actual gods you are still more than capable of mowing down anything or anyone in your path. Over leveled and over powered, sound familiar?

Now the wife and I play around often with Halo MC and Gears 5 on split screen so we get plenty of time with shooters and learning how to play with terrain plus keep our aim sharp and manage our rss (ammo) to get through certain battles. Those games to me are mindless but fun for a Friday night during quarantine when you’ve already finished all of Netflix!

So I began my ESO journey after that. Playing more for the story than anything because I love a good story. I found ESO tough out of the box but an I acquired skills and experience I got better in a hurry. Much like every other game I mentioned above. So I came in with a massive tool kit already and an understanding of how to play all sorts of games. Starting my second toon I can see how quick the actual progression in. Once you get to level 10-15 as an experienced player the only challenges come from dungeons, world bosses and PvP. It’s fun to roll up to bosses in Northern Elsweyr with my lv18 toon and duo a boss with a CP200 ish player or trio with another low level player. Now I already know the mechanics so it’s a matter of just staying alive and DPSing when I can and also healing my parter when I see them in trouble. This is the most fun I think I’ve had so far. The past couple days rolling with this low level character is much more rewarding than my high CP.

But honestly it’s the power creep making it easy, not just in ESO but in all games in general. You give experienced players a source of basically unlimited power (ok the cap is 810 but seriously that’s also too high) and they will smash all the content. But even still early enough in the game you do defeat a Daedric prince so why should a few overland mobs even be able to scratch you?

Universe

Doshia used to be much harder to kill, now she is almost getting one shot from the player
How it used to be(I didn't play in the following videos):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwQY57gVAb8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XC6y9dE3PoQ

I understand the need to make ESO casual friendly, but ZOS went too far...
It's too easy.

max_only

On the ESO reddit people are celebrating completing a public dungeon for the first time.
Once again, this game is not too easy for everyone.

Linaleah

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Linaleah, I meant first playthrough, when you know nothing, and several members of my squad died. Of course later I found that scheme, where it is shown that you shouldn't take Garrus (or any other tough 4-cost character) to last boss if you want to have 100% squad survival.
Also you are far fetching facts... even if you know all mechanics and have huge experience in other games, their hard difficulties simply will be easier manageable and sometimes exploitable, but it will be nowhere to close to ESO overland experience and exploits are considered good only for speedruns, for regular walkthroughs they are usually frowned upon with comments like "you may just open console and type cheat code instead of using that".

You have ESO overland in other games when you over-level the content. It's not about timing block/dodge whatever, it is simply when mobs lose any adequate chances to kill you if you won't stand still AFK. So simply put, in ESO your character over-levels content right from the start and then as "bonus for newbies" decreases, it is compensated by passives, new powerful abilities and then CP.
And you over-level content so hard, that you must remove ALL compensations and not just CP or "golden gear" to have experience where you will die after several mistakes.

first playtrhough, when i knew nothing - I struggled with ESO. a LOT. when i have become more familiar with the game - it got easy. very easy.

my husband who is MUCH better at video games then I am - struggled in ESO when he first tried picking it up (it is a pattern with a two of us that happens a lot. we love playing together, but we don't always enjoy the same games, so either I or he - will end up trying the game the other is playing to see if its something we can enjoy together, even if we normally wouldn't go for it on our own) in fact, he struggled enough to quit more then once before it finally clicked and it became easy. when he started, he was struggling on a basic early quest boss, and watching me play his character, dodging, rolling, etc made him feel like it was unnecessarily too much. cue few months later, after its clicked - and he is farming VMA as well as world bosses and later normal dungeons solo. things i STILL cannot do. and yet.. when he FIRST started - he struggled on an early quest boss.

ESO has an extreme power creep and skill gap, so once you figure out the game, it might feel easier then other games where balance between knowing and not knowing is better. but. its still. the same. general. thing. and just buffing mob health or even in most cases giving them extra mechanics? is not going to make it challenging to someone who is familiar with the game. especially when those people post videos of themselves spending 10 minutes killing a tougher mob and STILL call it a walk in a park

P.S. my main with all cp distributed, good gear, etc - dies to a random wolf if I afk in a bad spot. happened to me more then once, so I try to afk by wayshrines etc nowadays. this claim that you can leave a character out in a wilderness in eso and they will not die despite mob wailing on them? i have never, personaly experienced it. I HAVE experienced the opposite, unless its a pet sorc or something. which.. hilarious works the same way in WoW (yes in classic as well. if i afk on my hunter with pet out, pet will kill whatever it is that might be attacking me without any input from me.

MartiniDaniels

robertthebard wrote: »

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MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Robert, if you don't feel anything when playing games, then what's reason to play?
ESO player base is adult, 95 if not 99% of us finished our education, participated in sports, served in military, have children, got a first and next N serious jobs and this in no way prevents to feel enjoyment when you deal with somebody of comparable skill in PVP or with hardcore experience in PVE.
You mention Shepard, I don't know why you should care about consistency checks related to Reapers, first time I completed ME2 Suicide Mission I just felt like similar things feel IRL. It was pure ecstasy. And despite all the nonsense in some missions of ME3, when Liara was hanging Shepard's name in a board of dead crew members, I literally cried. And you probably were telling (sitting in blue or green ending) - "I was in similar way put on ban list on DDO forums, so nothing to be touched about..."

I play games for entertainment, and to get out of my head. This lockdown may be new for a lot of people, but for me, it's been my day to day for 15 years. When I'm logged in here, or GW/GW 2/swtor, or a myriad of SP games, almost 2.5 TBs of them across two platforms, I don't have to dwell on the stuff that's not going on in my life any more. No more midnight rides to the lake, just to watch the water flow, no more nights out with the boys, no more working. I get to get away from all of that, and it doesn't require sweating every encounter, nor feeling like a god amongst peasants, it just requires not being here, in this dark cave of an apartment I have to live due to my migraines. I take pride in the things in my life that I've actually accomplished, or contributed to. Pushing the right buttons, in the right order, isn't one of those things.

You are constantly putting it like for those players who want harder overland (and harder content overall), it is some way to prove something to ourselves, to walk around and think - "I'm cool, I beaten that on that difficulty or I killed 100 players in PVP today 1v1 or outnumbered, I'm god". No. It has nothing to do with what we think. I doubt any sane adult person will consider "success" in ESO or any other game as replacement for IRL success... well, maybe for pro-gamers and youtubers it might be true because they earn money by gaming, but for regular players.. no. It's not about what you think, it is about what you feel. You can't cheat your consciousness by thinking "I got that no-death achievement". Consciousness will tell you - "you are an idiot, if you are spending time on games to prove something instead of doing that IRL".
But you can cheat your body - when you have hard fight in a game, especially when it is new fight, you get your doses of adrenaline, of serotonin - or whatever, I'm not medic. But thing is that you beat something which was hard, be it PVE, PVP or even new record in game like Tetris, doesn't matter - you feel good. Not good about yourself. You simply get chemicals in blood, which of course is better to get IRL, but it might be more expensive, more dangerous to your health (for example drinking or extreme sports) and so on. And after all many things don't bring same emotions when you get used to them.
That's why people love horrors, love action games and movies and love immersive stories - because those things make you feel good.

robertthebard

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

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robertthebard wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Robert, if you don't feel anything when playing games, then what's reason to play?
ESO player base is adult, 95 if not 99% of us finished our education, participated in sports, served in military, have children, got a first and next N serious jobs and this in no way prevents to feel enjoyment when you deal with somebody of comparable skill in PVP or with hardcore experience in PVE.
You mention Shepard, I don't know why you should care about consistency checks related to Reapers, first time I completed ME2 Suicide Mission I just felt like similar things feel IRL. It was pure ecstasy. And despite all the nonsense in some missions of ME3, when Liara was hanging Shepard's name in a board of dead crew members, I literally cried. And you probably were telling (sitting in blue or green ending) - "I was in similar way put on ban list on DDO forums, so nothing to be touched about..."

I play games for entertainment, and to get out of my head. This lockdown may be new for a lot of people, but for me, it's been my day to day for 15 years. When I'm logged in here, or GW/GW 2/swtor, or a myriad of SP games, almost 2.5 TBs of them across two platforms, I don't have to dwell on the stuff that's not going on in my life any more. No more midnight rides to the lake, just to watch the water flow, no more nights out with the boys, no more working. I get to get away from all of that, and it doesn't require sweating every encounter, nor feeling like a god amongst peasants, it just requires not being here, in this dark cave of an apartment I have to live due to my migraines. I take pride in the things in my life that I've actually accomplished, or contributed to. Pushing the right buttons, in the right order, isn't one of those things.

You are constantly putting it like for those players who want harder overland (and harder content overall), it is some way to prove something to ourselves, to walk around and think - "I'm cool, I beaten that on that difficulty or I killed 100 players in PVP today 1v1 or outnumbered, I'm god". No. It has nothing to do with what we think. I doubt any sane adult person will consider "success" in ESO or any other game as replacement for IRL success... well, maybe for pro-gamers and youtubers it might be true because they earn money by gaming, but for regular players.. no. It's not about what you think, it is about what you feel. You can't cheat your consciousness by thinking "I got that no-death achievement". Consciousness will tell you - "you are an idiot, if you are spending time on games to prove something instead of doing that IRL".
But you can cheat your body - when you have hard fight in a game, especially when it is new fight, you get your doses of adrenaline, of serotonin - or whatever, I'm not medic. But thing is that you beat something which was hard, be it PVE, PVP or even new record in game like Tetris, doesn't matter - you feel good. Not good about yourself. You simply get chemicals in blood, which of course is better to get IRL, but it might be more expensive, more dangerous to your health (for example drinking or extreme sports) and so on. And after all many things don't bring same emotions when you get used to them.
That's why people love horrors, love action games and movies and love immersive stories - because those things make you feel good.

No, I'm not. I'm replying to what they say. You asked me a question, and then have the audacity to be offended because I answered it honestly? I probably better stop here, I don't want another post disappearing because I replied to you honestly.

Kiralyn2000

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Robert, if you don't feel anything when playing games, then what's reason to play?
ESO player base is adult, 95 if not 99% of us finished our education, participated in sports, served in military, have children, got a first and next N serious jobs and this in no way prevents to feel enjoyment when you deal with somebody of comparable skill in PVP or with hardcore experience in PVE.
You mention Shepard, I don't know why you should care about consistency checks related to Reapers, first time I completed ME2 Suicide Mission I just felt like similar things feel IRL. It was pure ecstasy.

Different people enjoy & experience things differently. Like, going to the movies - I like a nice empty theater so I can watch the movie in peace - other people like a big boisterous crowd, and do things like clap & cheer (god, that would suck).

Games? I play games for entertainment & relaxation mostly, not for "adrenaline rush". Finishing a Big Impressive Multi-stage JRPG boss fight leaves me thinking "thank god that's over", not "Woohoo! /fistpump"

There's probably a correlation to those "Gamer personality types" studies people have made - you know, the ones where they classify gamers in categories like Achiever, Socializer, Explorer, Killer? (Achiever/Killer types go for pvp and direct competition, etc. That kind of thing)

Personally, I've never been a "Challenge" gamer - throwing myself at the Cliffs Of Difficulty in order to feel that rush you talk about? Isn't what I go for most of the time. It's not what I look for in a game. So yeah - I don't pvp, I'm not interested in leaderboards, and I don't turn up the difficulty setting on most things. (Heck, I turned down the difficulty of Dragon Age:Origins because I was sick of the tedious combat but wanted to play out the story to see where it went. Didn't help that I was playing a fighter/rogue party in a game where AoE mages were the meta.)

(hmm, also like the difference between people who are "passionate" about things, and others who are more low-key. My mother can tell you all about how what she's eating is her favorite thing ever - this week; or she'll totally love that contractor she got to do her painting - until they do something wrong, at which point they become utter scum who she always thought were terrible. Meanwhile, I couldn't give you a list of my "10 favorite" anything, because they're all pretty good and I can't really pick one as better than the others. /shrug)


tl;dr - not everyone enjoys games for the same reasons you do. Even the same exact games.

MartiniDaniels

robertthebard wrote: »

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MartiniDaniels wrote: »

robertthebard wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Robert, if you don't feel anything when playing games, then what's reason to play?
ESO player base is adult, 95 if not 99% of us finished our education, participated in sports, served in military, have children, got a first and next N serious jobs and this in no way prevents to feel enjoyment when you deal with somebody of comparable skill in PVP or with hardcore experience in PVE.
You mention Shepard, I don't know why you should care about consistency checks related to Reapers, first time I completed ME2 Suicide Mission I just felt like similar things feel IRL. It was pure ecstasy. And despite all the nonsense in some missions of ME3, when Liara was hanging Shepard's name in a board of dead crew members, I literally cried. And you probably were telling (sitting in blue or green ending) - "I was in similar way put on ban list on DDO forums, so nothing to be touched about..."

I play games for entertainment, and to get out of my head. This lockdown may be new for a lot of people, but for me, it's been my day to day for 15 years. When I'm logged in here, or GW/GW 2/swtor, or a myriad of SP games, almost 2.5 TBs of them across two platforms, I don't have to dwell on the stuff that's not going on in my life any more. No more midnight rides to the lake, just to watch the water flow, no more nights out with the boys, no more working. I get to get away from all of that, and it doesn't require sweating every encounter, nor feeling like a god amongst peasants, it just requires not being here, in this dark cave of an apartment I have to live due to my migraines. I take pride in the things in my life that I've actually accomplished, or contributed to. Pushing the right buttons, in the right order, isn't one of those things.

You are constantly putting it like for those players who want harder overland (and harder content overall), it is some way to prove something to ourselves, to walk around and think - "I'm cool, I beaten that on that difficulty or I killed 100 players in PVP today 1v1 or outnumbered, I'm god". No. It has nothing to do with what we think. I doubt any sane adult person will consider "success" in ESO or any other game as replacement for IRL success... well, maybe for pro-gamers and youtubers it might be true because they earn money by gaming, but for regular players.. no. It's not about what you think, it is about what you feel. You can't cheat your consciousness by thinking "I got that no-death achievement". Consciousness will tell you - "you are an idiot, if you are spending time on games to prove something instead of doing that IRL".
But you can cheat your body - when you have hard fight in a game, especially when it is new fight, you get your doses of adrenaline, of serotonin - or whatever, I'm not medic. But thing is that you beat something which was hard, be it PVE, PVP or even new record in game like Tetris, doesn't matter - you feel good. Not good about yourself. You simply get chemicals in blood, which of course is better to get IRL, but it might be more expensive, more dangerous to your health (for example drinking or extreme sports) and so on. And after all many things don't bring same emotions when you get used to them.
That's why people love horrors, love action games and movies and love immersive stories - because those things make you feel good.

No, I'm not. I'm replying to what they say. You asked me a question, and then have the audacity to be offended because I answered it honestly? I probably better stop here, I don't want another post disappearing because I replied to you honestly.

I am not offended and I understand your reasoning, that's why I always for optional harder overland. But you may try to understand too, that your position (and others who want overland to remain as it is, without alternative modes) is not the only one, that not everybody can enjoy story without gameplay. It's not question of exploiting something or necessity to prove something, I simply don't believe the story and the world where you receive no notable damage from spells/melee weapons hit and so on.

starkerealm

Universe wrote: »

Doshia used to be much harder to kill, now she is almost getting one shot from the player
How it used to be(I didn't play in the following videos):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwQY57gVAb8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XC6y9dE3PoQ

I understand the need to make ESO casual friendly, but ZOS went too far...
It's too easy.

*Watches someone hardcasting frags.*

Yeah, I wonder why their DPS was low.

I understand, it's a little unfair to judge someone from six years ago, since I think crystal frags were changed back in 2015.

Also in your first video, you see that thing where she CCs Drosha with an uppercut? That's before bosses picked up CC immunity. You could just chain her to death with Uppercut if you were so inclined.

I get your message, "look how much harder the game was back then," but neither one of those players was being optimal. Back then you could absolutely trivialize Drosha with CC abilities. It took the community at large a couple months to realize that, though, and by that point she'd been nerfed.

Glurin

Well back then top end DPS was around what, 30k maybe? With a few outliers (or just liars) getting up to 38k? And that quest was designed for level 9 or 10ish where you have barely anything unlocked and probably wearing gear that you just found somewhere.

I just did that quest not too long ago on a brand new character, essentially under the same circumstances. Didn't bother assigning any CP, just used gear I had collected as random drops or quest rewards. Roughly the same character level. And to top it off, my build wasn't so much a "build" as it was a bar full of random skills I happened to be leveling at the time. She pretty much just rolled over and died anyway. Granted I had experience on my side, but even so it still felt more than a little bit off.

starkerealm

Glurin wrote: »

Well back then top end DPS was around what, 30k maybe?

Not even close. I'm going from memory, but if top DPS back then was over 5k, I'd be seriously shocked.

Those videos both predate the stat changes from 1.6, and the introduction of the champion point system, so first shave a zero off. At that point, 3k isn't a bad guess, but I think it might be a bit generous. 2k or 2.5k sounds a little closer, but I was never pushing the envelope back then.