Inspecting a Player!

Chaos2088 · April 2020

Agree with most of the people here. No. People would see your not wearing "meta" and auto kick you. Before you could even prove that you could do the content. Also there are personal builds people have found super effective and would not want people copying from them.

Minyassa · April 2020

No thank you. Gear inspection was the entire reason I didn't do group content in DDO, it was an opportunity for elitists to spray their elite poop everywhere. They already have plenty of opportunities for that in this game, let's not give them any more.

Sylvermynx · April 2020

Jeremy wrote: »

Ghnami wrote: »

Just like names in ESO logs, this should be a feature that you can turn on and off. I'm a pretty developed endgame player, and if people in public dungeons could see just how much damage my gryphon/VO setup does it might make it less intimidating. Easy to get sets, great results, and maybe their visibility would help people recognize they don't need rele/lokk to crush vet content inthis game.

That sounds reasonable. But people would probably just start kicking others who turned it off.

Exactly.

Elsonso · April 2020

The simple answer is to not allow them in PUGS. My feeling is that if you are playing with regulars, then the logging is fine. If you are playing in a PUG, and want logging, go make a group and log your run.

D0PAMINE · April 2020

Im fine with telling players my build and gear setup if they ask, but I don't personally think this is necessary. Even if it has been done in other MMO's, it doesn't seem important. You can literally just ask someone.

kichwas · April 2020

This game already has way too much pressure for everyone to use the same exact same build copied from alcast... and that is only from self-checking and personal performance anxiety...

Allowing people to inspect and make sure others were on an alcast approved build would just ruin things.

If we want to disallow build diversity... we can play FFXIV (the other MMO I currently play BTW) where there is no customization outside of fashion.

wild_kmacdb16_ESO · April 2020

Because MMOs are a social game, there is already a tool in place for this called 'respectfully ask the player'.

slicksteezin · April 2020

Hey watch it buddy.. my eyes are up here.

MilkJugg24 · April 2020

As someone who has been playing World of Warcraft for several years, the idea that an inspect option would ruin pugs or degrade the social experience of a game is pretty farfetched. If a player who actually cared about the damage you were doing, they would already be able to tell your level of competence just by watching the health bar move or looking at combat logs.

One thing I dislike strongly about the current game, is that I can never see what people are trying out for their gear, so I can't set personal goals to work towards a cool build I saw. There is an overwhelming amount of content in this game compared to other MMOs, so giving new players a gear set to strive for and research can prove to be something very useful for pushing them to make their own ideas and decisions. If anything, it would make social interaction more relevant, because I can whisper you "Hey, where did you get that set?", and then proceed to have a conversation about your build.

Elsonso · April 2020

MilkJugg24 wrote: »

As someone who has been playing World of Warcraft for several years, the idea that an inspect option would ruin pugs or degrade the social experience of a game is pretty farfetched.

I ignored a few of these thread, but I am pretty sure that game has been used in here as an example of why ESO should not have gear inspection and gear scores. If not, it probably should have been.

max_only · April 2020

Alucardo wrote: »

Lady_Sleepless wrote: »

Just ask the player. The worst thing some one can say is no. Don't need to snoop on anyone.

Wouldn't you find it creepy if someone approached you and said "hey, what are you wearing "

Nope. I’ve been asked and I ask this. Mostly new players want to know how to get glowing and sparkling stuff. I mostly ask about motifs/costumes.

MilkJugg24 · April 2020

Elsonso wrote: »

I am pretty sure that game has been used in here as an example of why ESO should not have gear inspection and gear scores. If not, it probably should have been...

I don't doubt it, but I don't see how making my character profile basically public at all times is bad. If I screen-shot all my gear and posted it to my profile for everyone to see on a daily basis, what would be the outcome? I might get booted from some nasty LFG groups that I personally wouldn't feel bad about. Odds are, I wouldn't have enjoyed playing with them anyways. Maybe someone who's better at the game (which is extremely likely) were to see my build, they could point out a fatal flaw that would make my build significantly better. There's just to many benefits that lead to players being better overall that it's hard to convince me otherwise.

If you like being private, that option should definitely be there. In the MMOARPG Path of Exile, you can hide your character profile, making all of your characters invisible to others, and your gear cannot be inspected. This is an opt-in feature, and quite frankly, if you enable that feature, you're missing out on showing off some of your awesome stuff you spent time collecting.

robertthebard · April 2020

MilkJugg24 wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

I am pretty sure that game has been used in here as an example of why ESO should not have gear inspection and gear scores. If not, it probably should have been...

I don't doubt it, but I don't see how making my character profile basically public at all times is bad. If I screen-shot all my gear and posted it to my profile for everyone to see on a daily basis, what would be the outcome? I might get booted from some nasty LFG groups that I personally wouldn't feel bad about. Odds are, I wouldn't have enjoyed playing with them anyways. Maybe someone who's better at the game (which is extremely likely) were to see my build, they could point out a fatal flaw that would make my build significantly better. There's just to many benefits that lead to players being better overall that it's hard to convince me otherwise.

If you like being private, that option should definitely be there. In the MMOARPG Path of Exile, you can hide your character profile, making all of your characters invisible to others, and your gear cannot be inspected. This is an opt-in feature, and quite frankly, if you enable that feature, you're missing out on showing off some of your awesome stuff you spent time collecting.

I'd also be opting out of people inspecting my gear while I'm fishing, and leaving comments about it. If I wanted someone's feedback on something I'm doing, I would ask for it. As it stands right now, I don't have to opt in or out of it, and I can just play the game w/out "for your own good" whispers about my kit.

MilkJugg24 · April 2020

max_only wrote: »

I'd also be opting out of people inspecting my gear while I'm fishing, and leaving comments about it. If I wanted someone's feedback on something I'm doing, I would ask for it.

If I had no hands and no feet, I could still count using my fingers and toes how many times I've had someone whisper me while fishing about what I was wearing in World of Warcraft. With online databases and in-game interfaces, the ability to find information regarding gear, on your own, without needing to ask, is plentiful in other video games.

I understand your perspective, and I think that simply adding a 'view profile' option isn't the best solution. If ZeniMax were to also implement tooltips and in-game menus which let you browse where to find certain things, they would effectively be supplying the tools people need to find what they're looking for without asking each other constantly. With that said, the entire idea of character inspection being contra-banned for immersion or fear of getting pushed aside, as some people are expressing it, is preposterous.

For your example, in the worst case possible, where someone solicits you for information, you just ignore them. I don't see why these awkward encounters are pushing the idea under the water.

kargen27 · April 2020

Glurin wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Another bad idea.

I completely agree. That is totally the wrong outfit for springtime. After he's done eating his cheddar burger, he should really think about updating his wardrobe.

In his defense it was early spring. How's this?

robertthebard · April 2020

MilkJugg24 wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

I'd also be opting out of people inspecting my gear while I'm fishing, and leaving comments about it. If I wanted someone's feedback on something I'm doing, I would ask for it.

If I had no hands and no feet, I could still count using my fingers and toes how many times I've had someone whisper me while fishing about what I was wearing in World of Warcraft. With online databases and in-game interfaces, the ability to find information regarding gear, on your own, without needing to ask, is plentiful in other video games.

I understand your perspective, and I think that simply adding a 'view profile' option isn't the best solution. If ZeniMax were to also implement tooltips and in-game menus which let you browse where to find certain things, they would effectively be supplying the tools people need to find what they're looking for without asking each other constantly. With that said, the entire idea of character inspection being contra-banned for immersion or fear of getting pushed aside, as some people are expressing it, is preposterous.

For your example, in the worst case possible, where someone solicits you for information, you just ignore them. I don't see why these awkward encounters are pushing the idea under the water.

Because this isn't the only MMO I've ever played, and I've played games where one's gear could be inspected. I've seen it abused, and I've seen players get abused for lacking BiS everywhere. I've seen a cleric whine for 15 minutes about a character not having enough HP to run a quest, only to be the first one to die, despite having the prerequisite HP. I've seen Story Mode operations groups requiring Nightmare rated gear. This system is open to, and will be abused. It has been abused in every game I've played where it's a thing, and we can see how it may be abused by just perusing the first couple of pages of this forum. It can lead to some helpful dialog, but frankly, the positives don't outweigh the negatives. It's not something this game needs, there's no reason to drive more of a wedge between the community, and that's exactly what it would do.

redgreensunset · April 2020

MilkJugg24 wrote: »

As someone who has been playing World of Warcraft for several years, the idea that an inspect option would ruin pugs or degrade the social experience of a game is pretty farfetched. If a player who actually cared about the damage you were doing, they would already be able to tell your level of competence just by watching the health bar move or looking at combat logs.

One thing I dislike strongly about the current game, is that I can never see what people are trying out for their gear, so I can't set personal goals to work towards a cool build I saw. There is an overwhelming amount of content in this game compared to other MMOs, so giving new players a gear set to strive for and research can prove to be something very useful for pushing them to make their own ideas and decisions. If anything, it would make social interaction more relevant, because I can whisper you "Hey, where did you get that set?", and then proceed to have a conversation about your build.

1) that information could be found via your search engine of choice, no need to talk to people.
2) what exatly is preventing you from leading with the question, "hey what build are you using?" right now?
3) why is it that people think they have a right to other people's work for free and without even trying to talk to them?

MilkJugg24 · April 2020

robertthebard wrote: »

This system is open to, and will be abused. It has been abused in every game I've played where it's a thing, and we can see how it may be abused by just perusing the first couple of pages of this forum. It can lead to some helpful dialog, but frankly, the positives don't outweigh the negatives. It's not something this game needs, there's no reason to drive more of a wedge between the community, and that's exactly what it would do.

If ZeniMax was a company known for being 'on top of things', by always reiterating and making sure that the gameplay is fluid for all players. Perhaps this discussion would be a little less polarizing. Right now, as someone who doesn't really play all that much apart from normal dungeons and questing, I wish the game was slightly more obvious about how a person progresses through each tier of content (Questing, Dungeons, Veteran Dungeons, Trials, Veteran Trials, etc.).

There are so many intricacies in this game which separate people between very few and vastly spread out skill groups. An inspection system, if implemented correctly, I think, could benefit lower-skill players. However, I do again see your concern for high-skill players. I have had my fair share of declined invites due to lack of gear or exceedingly high requirements. Although I find it fairly easy to shrug off, it is definitely not something I like to see in response to a character I work hard and play hard on.

robertthebard · April 2020

MilkJugg24 wrote: »

robertthebard wrote: »

This system is open to, and will be abused. It has been abused in every game I've played where it's a thing, and we can see how it may be abused by just perusing the first couple of pages of this forum. It can lead to some helpful dialog, but frankly, the positives don't outweigh the negatives. It's not something this game needs, there's no reason to drive more of a wedge between the community, and that's exactly what it would do.

If ZeniMax was a company known for being 'on top of things', by always reiterating and making sure that the gameplay is fluid for all players. Perhaps this discussion would be a little less polarizing. Right now, as someone who doesn't really play all that much apart from normal dungeons and questing, I wish the game was slightly more obvious about how a person progresses through each tier of content (Questing, Dungeons, Veteran Dungeons, Trials, Veteran Trials, etc.).

There are so many intricacies in this game which separate people between very few and vastly spread out skill groups. An inspection system, if implemented correctly, I think, could benefit lower-skill players. However, I do again see your concern for high-skill players. I have had my fair share of declined invites due to lack of gear or exceedingly high requirements. Although I find it fairly easy to shrug off, it is definitely not something I like to see in response to a character I work hard and play hard on.

Then why add more fuel to the fire, as it were? The system we have is fine, there's no sense in adding additional barriers.

Sirdorian · April 2020

Maybe instead of gear, they can show average dps number from Last 5 parses/ hps from Last Dungeons (dont know How messure Tanks, but sure there is a methode).
So evryone keeps the build secret, but you can See how good/ bad the Randoms in your group are

MilkJugg24 · April 2020

redgreensunset wrote: »

1) that information could be found via your search engine of choice, no need to talk to people.
2) what exatly is preventing you from leading with the question, "hey what build are you using?" right now?
3) why is it that people think they have a right to other people's work for free and without even trying to talk to them?

As someone who has struggled very hard to 'get into' the game, and understand what makes a good character, there are not a lot of places that are consistently up-to-date with the best information regarding a class or build that you can simply Google search. If you can prove me otherwise, please link them to me. I'm looking for websites like these...

There is nothing preventing me, other than the player I'm whispering, from gaining the information I would like to have learn from them. I just don't feel like whispering everyone in the group, because it would make me seem like an attention seeker. Not to mention, some people just don't want to talk, but don't mind to show off their gear.

You use some strong phrasing to express people's interest in something as small as the items a person is using in a video game. If it truly was work, why don't you create a website with builds guides that people can only access by paying you? Every player in this game has equal opportunity to obtain the same gear. Why should any of it feel exclusive to one person? You act like this is an invasion of your life's work.

MilkJugg24 · April 2020

robertthebard wrote: »

Then why add more fuel to the fire, as it were? The system we have is fine, there's no sense in adding additional barriers.

The idea of this discussion is to find a change that fits the best. If we are just going to backpedal whenever someone has a suggestion with reason, what's the point in even having this thread in the first place? Every game system has its flaws. How are we to know what's best for the game if we don't try?

Although I am someone who always tries of ways to make things better, it is never my intent to cause more harm than good.

Malmai · April 2020

Should be shared yes, so people see where is opness and nerf it. Specially there is so many exploit builds, which are considered cheating in tos.

Chicharron · April 2020

Alucardo wrote: »

Lady_Sleepless wrote: »

Just ask the player. The worst thing some one can say is no. Don't need to snoop on anyone.

Wouldn't you find it creepy if someone approached you and said "hey, what are you wearing "

I'm going to test this tomorrow with the first person I see.

Glurin · April 2020

MilkJugg24 wrote: »

As someone who has been playing World of Warcraft for several years, the idea that an inspect option would ruin pugs or degrade the social experience of a game is pretty farfetched.

I played WoW before gear score was a thing. I can tell you first hand that it had a strongly negative effect on the social experience of that game. As did the introduction of damage meters.

ZonasArch · April 2020

Of all the stupid ideas running around these forums, this is among the top ones. Potentially harmful to a lot of people, incredibly useless and very prone to killing this game's nice social aspect.

There's literally no upside at all to have gear inspection as an option. You may think there is, but you're wrong. It's ok to be wrong, btw, but definitely not ok to impose stupid ideas on others when it can very much literally kill the game for players and, ultimately, for the devs.

It's like Russian roulette with a full chamber revolver. There's a chance a bullet may fail to fire, but clinging on to that statistically meaningless odd is basically suicide.

Tsar_Gekkou · April 2020

MilkJugg24 wrote: »

If a player who actually cared about the damage you were doing, they would already be able to tell your level of competence just by watching the health bar move

This is exactly what my dps friends do. When we queue for a dungeon and get a random dps and it feels like they're solo dpsing, sometimes they'll "dps check" the rando by just sitting back and watching how long it's taking for enemies health bars to drop, and from that they can gauge if the damage is garbage or not. You don't need to inspect someone's gear to know that they can't dps when you can just watch them fight an add for a few seconds. No one cares about what sets dds wear as long as they're hitting high enough.

The only people who'd get shafted by gear inspecting are supports. If you're a tank trying to join a vMoL run (not a progression run)and people could see that you're wearing something like Durok's Bane and Green Pact, You'd get told to change to decent sets and you'd catch the boot if you didn't. A healer running Fortified Brass and Shalks would get the same treatment. DDs would be safe from that kind of nonsense from everyone except from other low-level players who don't even know how to play the game yet.

Raudgrani · April 2020

Dirtybyrd wrote: »

I strongly feel it is time ZOS added inspecting a player to the game. It's not always looked at for gear score we will be able to look at the gear styles and also to see what the gear score is

I will get shunned for wearing TFS instead of Relequen, and if I use that my effectiveness will drop significantly at least in dungeons. Sometimes "meta gear" doesn't always make sense on other than burning bosses in a well mannered way. People are often narrow minded, and don't look at what you actually do, but what abilities you have slotted and what gear you use. if I go Rapid Strikes and Relequen over Ruinous Scythe and Twice-Fanged Snake, trash fights take twice as long - at least. Same if I don't use Caltrops on my StamDK (and everyone goes like "Caltrops? You noobz!"), sometimes it's better to let people decide for themselves what to wear and do. All trash being resist debuffed and moving like turtles, what's there not to like about that?

robertthebard · April 2020

MilkJugg24 wrote: »

robertthebard wrote: »

Then why add more fuel to the fire, as it were? The system we have is fine, there's no sense in adding additional barriers.

The idea of this discussion is to find a change that fits the best. If we are just going to backpedal whenever someone has a suggestion with reason, what's the point in even having this thread in the first place? Every game system has its flaws. How are we to know what's best for the game if we don't try?

Although I am someone who always tries of ways to make things better, it is never my intent to cause more harm than good.

Because sometimes the idea isn't good.

I'm an old school build theory crafter. I did it in Neverwinter Nights, and in DDO. Instead of running to x forum to find a build to play, I'd be like "what happens if I try x". Sometimes, no matter how good it looked on paper, in practice, it was just bad, and I mean "what was I thinking" bad. There's nothing wrong with that, it's going to happen when one is trying to be creative.

As for this idea, it's been shown that it's got the potential to do more harm than good, and so it doesn't fit. People will say "you're not doing the board approved thing, and so we don't want you in our group", which will lead to more forum posts about toxicity, and maybe even a "so today, this Y joined our group in Z, and we promptly kicked them". That's not good for the game.

kichwas · April 2020

robertthebard wrote: »

Because this isn't the only MMO I've ever played, and I've played games where one's gear could be inspected. I've seen it abused, and I've seen players get abused for lacking BiS everywhere. I've seen a cleric whine for 15 minutes about a character not having enough HP to run a quest, only to be the first one to die, despite having the prerequisite HP. I've seen Story Mode operations groups requiring Nightmare rated gear.

I'm thinking of a group about 6 months back in FFXIV, where a healer repeatedly wiped my group because my level 65 tank that had just unlocked the level 65 dungeon was using an 'epic' level 60 axe... (who's first possible replacement was a drop from that dungeon).

I've had vote kicks pop up on my screen rather often back when I was playing WoW, and sometimes in FFXIV... and the comment being 'so-and-so's gear sucks'. In Leveling content... not just in raids.

It's very common in both WoW and FFXIV for me to see 'group finder' PUG groups forming where the person forming it is demanding gear that is the gear that drops in that content, or even past it... and quite often once you get in... said person is 'barely on the nose' for the mandatory gear required to zone into that place. Sometimes they're below it if the game allows people to enter under-required when in a pre-made...

The thing is... this kind of drama happens most where it shouldn't, and least where it should.

People get nasty about the inspec in leveling runs and progression runs of new content where the real issue is not yet knowing the fight...

But in raids... I find that the people who make it to raid groups tend to be smarter about vetting each other... like see how well they perform together after a few pull or such...