Inspecting a Player!

robertthebard

kichwas wrote: »

robertthebard wrote: »

Because this isn't the only MMO I've ever played, and I've played games where one's gear could be inspected. I've seen it abused, and I've seen players get abused for lacking BiS everywhere. I've seen a cleric whine for 15 minutes about a character not having enough HP to run a quest, only to be the first one to die, despite having the prerequisite HP. I've seen Story Mode operations groups requiring Nightmare rated gear.

I'm thinking of a group about 6 months back in FFXIV, where a healer repeatedly wiped my group because my level 65 tank that had just unlocked the level 65 dungeon was using an 'epic' level 60 axe... (who's first possible replacement was a drop from that dungeon).

I've had vote kicks pop up on my screen rather often back when I was playing WoW, and sometimes in FFXIV... and the comment being 'so-and-so's gear sucks'. In Leveling content... not just in raids.

It's very common in both WoW and FFXIV for me to see 'group finder' PUG groups forming where the person forming it is demanding gear that is the gear that drops in that content, or even past it... and quite often once you get in... said person is 'barely on the nose' for the mandatory gear required to zone into that place. Sometimes they're below it if the game allows people to enter under-required when in a pre-made...

The thing is... this kind of drama happens most where it shouldn't, and least where it should.

People get nasty about the inspec in leveling runs and progression runs of new content where the real issue is not yet knowing the fight...

But in raids... I find that the people who make it to raid groups tend to be smarter about vetting each other... like see how well they perform together after a few pull or such...

We have that stuff now, why complicate it further? It just serves to alienate players that may actually want to figure things out. More often than not, you're right, it's not knowing the fights that is the real issue, or not knowing a mechanic, and for every "we went over the mechanics before the fight" there's x "we were zerging like mad, and suddenly wiped because x".

kichwas

MilkJugg24 wrote: »

If ZeniMax were to also implement tooltips and in-game menus which let you browse where to find certain things,

If I see a cool look on someone, I open my outfit system and preview all the sets that are locked to me until I find what they had on, then I set unlocking it as a personal goal - since that has a tooltip that tells me how to acquire it.

Plenty of guides online that offer build suggestions. But to me they highlight the problem - they all copy each other almost word for word. Sometimes even in the phrasing of sentences...

The pressure in this game to be cookie-cutter is already insanely high and yet in the actual game there's no ability to enforce that pressure... if you added such an ability... we might as well just put alcast as in charge of the developer team... (which is NOT a statement against that site, it's a blessing, but I do wish they made a purposeful point to have more than 1 build for each class/role so people could see you didn't have to be EXACTLY that one specific build).

Sanctum74

Malmai wrote: »

Should be shared yes, so people see where is opness and nerf it. Specially there is so many exploit builds, which are considered cheating in tos.

Such a common misconception thinking there is some op build or cheating that makes players better. A good build helps, but some people are actually just good players.

DarkPicture

I guess people dont how about esologs, and u agree or not someone can record your gear, skills etc. So rest in peace if u think u are safe xD

D0PAMINE

Tsar_Gekkou wrote: »

MilkJugg24 wrote: »

If a player who actually cared about the damage you were doing, they would already be able to tell your level of competence just by watching the health bar move

This is exactly what my dps friends do. When we queue for a dungeon and get a random dps and it feels like they're solo dpsing, sometimes they'll "dps check" the rando by just sitting back and watching how long it's taking for enemies health bars to drop, and from that they can gauge if the damage is garbage or not. You don't need to inspect someone's gear to know that they can't dps when you can just watch them fight an add for a few seconds. No one cares about what sets dds wear as long as they're hitting high enough.

The only people who'd get shafted by gear inspecting are supports. If you're a tank trying to join a vMoL run (not a progression run)and people could see that you're wearing something like Durok's Bane and Green Pact, You'd get told to change to decent sets and you'd catch the boot if you didn't. A healer running Fortified Brass and Shalks would get the same treatment. DDs would be safe from that kind of nonsense from everyone except from other low-level players who don't even know how to play the game yet.

Sounds like a premade group going for achievements or Leaderboard runs. When you PUG, you take what you can get or kick/leave.

Dirtybyrd

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Hmm. Maybe it's a combination of starting out in MMOs that had Inspect, and never having gear that was worth inspecting, but I've never understood why people are so vehemently against it. Seems really minor.
edit: and seems a lot less intrusive and bothersome than random strangers /whispering you to ask about your motif/style/whatever. I don't want to talk to you, just use Inspect!

(and elitist jerks will find some reason to kick people who don't meet their silly standards, no matter what features a game has or doesn't have. /shrug)

Well spoken!

Olupajmibanan

Noob-kick reasons aside, ZoS is doing everything to reduce server load. They went so far they even nerfed things if it promised at least slight server performance improvement. Inspect option is the exact opposite of their intent.

Daemons_Bane

You lost me at Gearscore.. Stuff like that only leads to misery

zrazmab16_ESO

Taunky wrote: »

I'm all for no, however, if this were to be a thing it would have to be toggle able via settings.

Yep, would be the best option if it were to happen. If I remember correctly Aion used to have this setting, if you toggled it on, other players were not able to inspect you.

Elsonso

SpiderKnight wrote: »

I didn't want to start a new thread, I remembered this post and recently coming to PC, inspecting would have turned me off, but anyway...A few times I've been afk while logged in, I'd be on my phone, or basically doing nothing but staring at people, I will see a player walk up to me and their character does the reading book animation like they're going to message me, but they'll walk away. Every time I've seen this, my map just opens up, I didn't bump anything because I'm not touching my controller. Any idea what's going on? Is inspecting actually a thing/hack, I find it weird that my map opens for no reason when I see happens.

I doubt that the two are related, but you never know. Not everyone who writes add-ons for the community is above inserting malicious behavior into the add-on.

SpacemanSpiff1

SpiderKnight wrote: »

I didn't want to start a new thread, I remembered this post and recently coming to PC, inspecting would have turned me off, but anyway...A few times I've been afk while logged in, I'd be on my phone, or basically doing nothing but staring at people, I will see a player walk up to me and their character does the reading book animation like they're going to message me, but they'll walk away. Every time I've seen this, my map just opens up, I didn't bump anything because I'm not touching my controller. Any idea what's going on? Is inspecting actually a thing/hack, I find it weird that my map opens for no reason when I see happens.

do you maybe have an addon that opens your map to keep you from timing out while idling?

amm7sb14_ESO

This game already has enough toxicity and elitism about what sets people should and shouldn't be wearing, so, no, we don't need more tools to continue to enforce that behavior.

TwinLamps

Would be complete mess in PvP, so no.

amm7sb14_ESO

Loulong wrote: »

I would quit ESO forever if this became a thing.

I wouldn't blame you.

As it is already, the standards and expectations imposed upon gear and build set ups are already the one thing I hate most about this game, and the biggest thing that will eventually drive me away when the time comes.

I already find myself needing to take breaks from the game, or logging on to console where I don't have guilds / friends lists to wrap me up in that crap, and I can just play quietly, the way I want, with nobody bothering me about my characters.

SpiderKnight

SpacemanSpiff1 wrote: »

SpiderKnight wrote: »

I didn't want to start a new thread, I remembered this post and recently coming to PC, inspecting would have turned me off, but anyway...A few times I've been afk while logged in, I'd be on my phone, or basically doing nothing but staring at people, I will see a player walk up to me and their character does the reading book animation like they're going to message me, but they'll walk away. Every time I've seen this, my map just opens up, I didn't bump anything because I'm not touching my controller. Any idea what's going on? Is inspecting actually a thing/hack, I find it weird that my map opens for no reason when I see happens.

do you maybe have an addon that opens your map to keep you from timing out while idling?

Not one specifically for that, but I suppose that's possible if it's built into one of my other addons, will have to take a look. Is there a specific addon that does that?

amm7sb14_ESO

BRCOURTN wrote: »

I play on Xbox, but when I watch pc streams, they have an addon that let's them see the percentage of damage they are dealing in the group. Thats toxic enough for me right there. Its pretty much the only reason I'm glad I'm on console. You can tell if someone's underperforming but at least there are no statistics to see exactly how bad they are.

Combat Metrics is up there among the worst things to ever happen to this game.

SpacemanSpiff1

SpiderKnight wrote: »

SpacemanSpiff1 wrote: »

SpiderKnight wrote: »

I didn't want to start a new thread, I remembered this post and recently coming to PC, inspecting would have turned me off, but anyway...A few times I've been afk while logged in, I'd be on my phone, or basically doing nothing but staring at people, I will see a player walk up to me and their character does the reading book animation like they're going to message me, but they'll walk away. Every time I've seen this, my map just opens up, I didn't bump anything because I'm not touching my controller. Any idea what's going on? Is inspecting actually a thing/hack, I find it weird that my map opens for no reason when I see happens.

do you maybe have an addon that opens your map to keep you from timing out while idling?

Not one specifically for that, but I suppose that's possible if it's built into one of my other addons, will have to take a look. Is there a specific addon that does that?

i searched a bit and havent found one for that specifically. *shrug*

Azuramoonstar

thanks but no thanks... if you wanna know what gear/look they using ask. i rather not walk around and get ppl harassing me over something like an rp set up. had this happen before in another game.

Azuramoonstar

Starlock wrote: »

What is "gear score" and why should I care about it?

calculation of your armor. in most pother mmo gear had stats on them and item level. it would calculate gear score. It was added/made around WoW due to an addon and just becoming standard. It just as number to tel you if your gear is up to date for content.

It isn't needed in this game due to how the game works.

Inyhel

No.

amm7sb14_ESO

kichwas wrote: »

This game already has way too much pressure for everyone to use the same exact same build copied from alcast... and that is only from self-checking and personal performance anxiety...

Allowing people to inspect and make sure others were on an alcast approved build would just ruin things.

If we want to disallow build diversity... we can play FFXIV (the other MMO I currently play BTW) where there is no customization outside of fashion.

I have said repeatedly about this game that if every role is meant to just wear the same gear setups, and nothing outside of that, then ZOS just needs to remove race and classes from the game altogether, and just make 4 character options:

-Tank, which comes pre-loaded with the "optimal" BiS gear; 1h + shield and ice staff, stat distribution, and generic taunt / buff / debuff effects
-Mag DPS, which comes pre-loaded with the "optimal" BiS gear; 1 inferno staff 1 lightning staff, stat distribution, and generic range DoT, burst damage effects
-Stam DPS, which comes pre-loaded with the "optimal" BiS gear; 1 bow and 1 2h weapon, stat distribution, and generic melee and bow DoT and burst damage effects
-Healer, which comes pre-loaded with the "optimal" BiS gear; 1 resto staff, 1 lightning staff, stat distribution, and generic healing and buff effects

^ None of the above can be tweaked or altered, there are no loot drops in the game, it's all just create your pre-made, unalterable character that fits the specific role with everything preset BiS and just run the content rinse and repeat.

amm7sb14_ESO

robertthebard wrote: »

kichwas wrote: »

robertthebard wrote: »

Because this isn't the only MMO I've ever played, and I've played games where one's gear could be inspected. I've seen it abused, and I've seen players get abused for lacking BiS everywhere. I've seen a cleric whine for 15 minutes about a character not having enough HP to run a quest, only to be the first one to die, despite having the prerequisite HP. I've seen Story Mode operations groups requiring Nightmare rated gear.

I'm thinking of a group about 6 months back in FFXIV, where a healer repeatedly wiped my group because my level 65 tank that had just unlocked the level 65 dungeon was using an 'epic' level 60 axe... (who's first possible replacement was a drop from that dungeon).

I've had vote kicks pop up on my screen rather often back when I was playing WoW, and sometimes in FFXIV... and the comment being 'so-and-so's gear sucks'. In Leveling content... not just in raids.

It's very common in both WoW and FFXIV for me to see 'group finder' PUG groups forming where the person forming it is demanding gear that is the gear that drops in that content, or even past it... and quite often once you get in... said person is 'barely on the nose' for the mandatory gear required to zone into that place. Sometimes they're below it if the game allows people to enter under-required when in a pre-made...

The thing is... this kind of drama happens most where it shouldn't, and least where it should.

People get nasty about the inspec in leveling runs and progression runs of new content where the real issue is not yet knowing the fight...

But in raids... I find that the people who make it to raid groups tend to be smarter about vetting each other... like see how well they perform together after a few pull or such...

We have that stuff now, why complicate it further? It just serves to alienate players that may actually want to figure things out. More often than not, you're right, it's not knowing the fights that is the real issue, or not knowing a mechanic, and for every "we went over the mechanics before the fight" there's x "we were zerging like mad, and suddenly wiped because x".

Agreed.

A knowledge and understanding of mechanics will take you further than any gear can, and there is no gear in the game that can save you from a lack of understanding of the mechanics.

miscreant7

ArchMikem wrote: »

Because I would absolutely love dungeon groups to kick me after seeing my Hulking Draugr set.

YES! I knew I wasn't the only one

Karmanorway

Nope. What im wearing is none of the copycats business 😊 They should also spend fortunes and countless of hours experimenting for themselves to find "their" sweet spot👌Or continue to brainlessly copying youtube gurus i really dont care🤣

daemonios

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

BRCOURTN wrote: »

I play on Xbox, but when I watch pc streams, they have an addon that let's them see the percentage of damage they are dealing in the group. Thats toxic enough for me right there. Its pretty much the only reason I'm glad I'm on console. You can tell if someone's underperforming but at least there are no statistics to see exactly how bad they are.

Combat Metrics is up there among the worst things to ever happen to this game.

Could have been avoided easily by giving players a way to gauge their performance (players resorted to all sorts of tricks until ZOS finally added training dummies several years too late) and limiting the information available to add-ons. Don't blame Combat Metrics, it does an excellent job at what it's designed for.

Also, while you're blaming an add-on, you may want to acknowledge ESO Logs, which goes into minute details regarding every group member's performance and is "sponsored" by ZOS themselves if I'm not mistaken.

Lixiviant

No. No. No.

Integral1900

I remember the addon that let people do that

The toxicity was unbelievable 🤬

amm7sb14_ESO

daemonios wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

BRCOURTN wrote: »

I play on Xbox, but when I watch pc streams, they have an addon that let's them see the percentage of damage they are dealing in the group. Thats toxic enough for me right there. Its pretty much the only reason I'm glad I'm on console. You can tell if someone's underperforming but at least there are no statistics to see exactly how bad they are.

Combat Metrics is up there among the worst things to ever happen to this game.

Could have been avoided easily by giving players a way to gauge their performance (players resorted to all sorts of tricks until ZOS finally added training dummies several years too late) and limiting the information available to add-ons. Don't blame Combat Metrics, it does an excellent job at what it's designed for.

Also, while you're blaming an add-on, you may want to acknowledge ESO Logs, which goes into minute details regarding every group member's performance and is "sponsored" by ZOS themselves if I'm not mistaken.

Combat Metrics is cancer because it is used as a crutch for people to continue peddling their elitism and gatekeeping, to keep people out of content if they aren't deemed worthy.

I think that parsing dummies are equally toxic.

Or more accurately - Combat Metrics and parsing dummies *enable* toxicity. On their own, they are worthwhile tools to help people gauge where they are and where they can improve.

But the toxicity that they enable makes the community wholly insufferable at times.

Full disclosure, I use Combat Metrics and parsing dummies myself. But I use it solely for my own personal information about my own performance, and don't use it to track and judge other players.

PizzaCat82

Why should builds be secret?

Mortiis13

Nope. I don't want my builds to be copied that I have invested hours and days into it testing and optimizing them and another days to farm these sets.
They are also often non meta builds that works well for me and my playstyle I prefer on a specific class, while I can't access good numbers with meta builds or they simply don't fit my style.