Inspecting a Player!

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

VaranisArano wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Dirtybyrd wrote: »

I strongly feel it is time ZOS added inspecting a player to the game. It's not always looked at for gear score we will be able to look at the gear styles and also to see what the gear score is

What ppl don't seem to understand in this post is that they already kind of added this.
You can inspect the gear and skills of anyone you group with.

Using ESO Logs?
ZOS very specifically made ESO Logs so that players can't get that info until after the combat has happened and the log is uploaded, precisely because concerns about what players would do with that info in real time.

It's not quite the same thing as being able to roll into a dungeon, inspect your group members, and try to vote kick anyone not up to your standards.

you just kill 1 mob (I actually dont know if you even need to do that) or whether just starting and ending the log is sufficient.

Sephyr

Anhedonie wrote: »

Unless you're wearing a perfected Siroria + Mother's Sorrow + Zaan (insert bis meta for any role here), be ready to get kicked from any random normal dungeon before even engaging with the 1st pack of enemies.

Pretty much this. While it might be an exaggeration, I've seen people kicked in PuGs for literally following dungeon mechanics. With this community? Very hard pass.

BRCOURTN

I play on Xbox, but when I watch pc streams, they have an addon that let's them see the percentage of damage they are dealing in the group. Thats toxic enough for me right there. Its pretty much the only reason I'm glad I'm on console. You can tell if someone's underperforming but at least there are no statistics to see exactly how bad they are.

ghastley

BRCOURTN wrote: »

I play on Xbox, but when I watch pc streams, they have an addon that let's them see the percentage of damage they are dealing in the group. Thats toxic enough for me right there. Its pretty much the only reason I'm glad I'm on console. You can tell if someone's underperforming but at least there are no statistics to see exactly how bad they are.

Actually, that's preferable to the kind of inspection being discussed, where the player's ability doesn't factor in. And that add-on will also show healing stats, and tanking stats (damage blocked, effectiveness of de-buffs, etc.) so it lets you know if their damage dropped off because they had to heal or block. That's the main point of contention with "gear inspection". It's so narrow a focus that it doesn't help the team adjust.

daemonor

Alucardo wrote: »

jetplane_18 wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

That wouldn't be a good thing. Especially in high level PvP people tend to hide their builds, so they won't get copied. A lot of them are very special setups a normal player wouldn't even think about.

I actually think pvp is the one place I would want to be able to check builds. In random pve, I don't care what you're using as long as someone has taunt, someone is healing, and enemy health goes down. In organized pve, your equipment is either preplanned or assumed to be meta anyway. In pvp you can't tell if you're facing good players, zergs, exploits, cheese, etc.

Some people take pride in their builds, especially if it's something out of the ordinary. They don't want people being able to inspect them to see what they're wearing. Also, it takes away the element of surprise if you fight them, which can be a huge downside.

[Snip]. You basically want to win by opponents not knowning your playstyle, because if they do, you're afraid that your skill migh not be enough. And I'm pretty sure for at least stamina classess there's nothing to hide - it's fury/spriggans/nma and there's like 20 pvp build videos of the same stuff on youtube. Im curious as to where this delusion of "top pvpers came up with their own super secret pvp builds that they don't want to reveal" came from? Top PvPers post build videos on youtube of meta stuff. You can't beat higher stat density, there's just sets that are more stat dense and give you more damage/healing/mitigation combined than the rest of the combos, and those are top performers. I would love to see a single video of a nord magicka bowblade with his super unique set and skill combos suited for his playstyle that outperforms the regular meta setups.

[Edited for bait]

grannas211

I would love to see it just to see the front page of the forums. Personally? Who cares. Everyone always says I wear "x,y, and z because thats what I want to do." Well then no need to be embarassed about it no?

Granicus

As so many have already said in this and prior such threads, an emphatic Nope! Already far too much toxicity in this game as it is. No need to add more fuel to the fire.

Crixus8000

daemonor wrote: »

[Snip]. You basically want to win by opponents not knowning your playstyle, because if they do, you're afraid that your skill migh not be enough. And I'm pretty sure for at least stamina classess there's nothing to hide - it's fury/spriggans/nma and there's like 20 pvp build videos of the same stuff on youtube. Im curious as to where this delusion of "top pvpers came up with their own super secret pvp builds that they don't want to reveal" came from? Top PvPers post build videos on youtube of meta stuff. You can't beat higher stat density, there's just sets that are more stat dense and give you more damage/healing/mitigation combined than the rest of the combos, and those are top performers. I would love to see a single video of a nord magicka bowblade with his super unique set and skill combos suited for his playstyle that outperforms the regular meta setups.
[Edited for bait]

People put in a lot of effort to make a good build and others shouldn't be able to just steal it by inspecting someone.

Sanguinor2

If People can inspect in PvP someone might find out my super secret fury, nma, bloodspawn, brp dual wield backbar stam build oh the Horror

VaranisArano

grannas211 wrote: »

I would love to see it just to see the front page of the forums. Personally? Who cares. Everyone always says I wear "x,y, and z because thats what I want to do." Well then no need to be embarassed about it no?

There's not being embarrassed.
And then there's not having to deal with the jerks who are convinced that you should be embarrassed and are toxic about telling you so.

People. We're why we can't have nice things.

Rezdayn

Dirtybyrd wrote: »

I strongly feel it is time ZOS added inspecting a player to the game. It's not always looked at for gear score we will be able to look at the gear styles and also to see what the gear score is

I think this is a great idea but get ready for the wave of hate you will get for bringing this up.

Dirtybyrd

I did not mean for this to be about checking out others gear styles and equipped gear but mainly to see what others are wearing as a style and just ideals it can give. I get asked so much about my style and from guild mates about what I am wearing! I am sorry some of you do not feel the same way and I do understand about how it can be miss used and yes that part is garbage I know! But if somehow we could get it to wear it just maybe allow us to insect the style and setup transmog
and main gear that will not hurt anything in my opinion. Sometimes new players need that is it must be why I get asked as much each day about what I am wearing. I do reply when i get asked but sometimes I am afk and miss the player's about it or just to busy... this is 2020 it is time I feel the the gaming get it together with simple things on this level there is so much that can be done and again if it is something that will hurt the game than keep it out I was just thinking out loud as I have many things running threw my head... And you all know when you get inspected and a player whisper you and say WOW... Your gear is so awesome!! Where you get it and how can I get it? You feel like a "Star" :P

robertthebard

No thanks, I don't want some random looking through my virtual windows while I'm fishing, or listening to Malukah sing...

MEBengalsFan2001

This would help when jumping into a random Vet Q and you end up with a DD that selected tank or healer and can't help the group complete the content. To many times I find those players are more toxic than a kick because that player isn't setup to play their role. The same can be said for DD; on my support characterI run into many DD running 1h and shield or they are using a resto staff.

The thing is though it would cause more issues than it would solve.

RedReign

Dirtybyrd wrote: »

I did not mean for this to be about checking out others gear styles and equipped gear but mainly to see what others are wearing as a style and just ideals it can give. I get asked so much about my style and from guild mates about what I am wearing! I am sorry some of you do not feel the same way and I do understand about how it can be miss used and yes that part is garbage I know! But if somehow we could get it to wear it just maybe allow us to insect the style and setup transmog
and main gear that will not hurt anything in my opinion. Sometimes new players need that is it must be why I get asked as much each day about what I am wearing. I do reply when i get asked but sometimes I am afk and miss the player's about it or just to busy... this is 2020 it is time I feel the the gaming get it together with simple things on this level there is so much that can be done and again if it is something that will hurt the game than keep it out I was just thinking out loud as I have many things running threw my head... And you all know when you get inspected and a player whisper you and say WOW... Your gear is so awesome!! Where you get it and how can I get it? You feel like a "Star" :P

If you meant it for style you wouldn't have specifically mentioned wanting to see peoples gear score twice.

relentless_turnip

To me it's a question of what does it add?
In games like WOW you inspect players who you can already visually see have got gear that is very hard to get.

In ESO all the sets are easy to get with the exception of trial sets. The strength isn't from how powerful the set is, but how strong the combination is. ESO rewards knowledge and acquired skill rather than time.

I imagine as a new player inspecting another player and thinking "wow he is wearing all legendary armor". A month later he will know that you can make any set legendary very easily.

I suppose the underlying fact is that this is a very different game from the games that offer the inspect feature.

MrGhosty

Much like any other enthusiast, I am always prepared to discuss how i have created my toon and share the style/dye combos when asked. An impersonal, non speaking person just stood in front of me isn't very engaging.

When you add in the fact that people will utilize the tool to be awful to other players, it's pretty simple as to why people are saying no.

ESO Logs and Combat meter are useful tools for fine tuning personal and group performance, but even those can be used in a toxic manner as people have attested.

As to the OP saying they "want to have a conversation and be told their gear is awesome", they can already have those chats right now without inspect. The only way such a tool would ever be okay is if just like the logs, they allow players the option to remain anon and not show up in an inspection panel.

When I see someone wearing a style I don't recognize, I would prefer to just ask as who doesn't like getting a compliment? If they don't respond, I don't ask a second time as they are either not at their keyboard or not interested in conversing.

As to the people saying that PvP builds aren't able to be that special, I would point out that most if not all of the recognized strong PvPers will be the first to say that the build they list is just what works for them and players should customize to their playstyle. Some players go further with that and design a playstyle that synergizes very well with a certain set of gear, and take pride in being competitive in non-meta gear. They rightfully want to protect that and that should remain up to them.

Chicharron

No way.

I don't want ugly people (which is 99% of the player base) come to me with the excuse of inspecting me, when what they really want is to appreciate beautifulness.

AcadianPaladin

Dirtybyrd wrote: »

I did not mean for this to be about checking out others gear styles and equipped gear but mainly to see what others are wearing as a style and just ideals it can give. I get asked so much about my style and from guild mates about what I am wearing! I am sorry some of you do not feel the same way and I do understand about how it can be miss used and yes that part is garbage I know! But if somehow we could get it to wear it just maybe allow us to insect the style and setup transmog
and main gear that will not hurt anything in my opinion. Sometimes new players need that is it must be why I get asked as much each day about what I am wearing. I do reply when i get asked but sometimes I am afk and miss the player's about it or just to busy... this is 2020 it is time I feel the the gaming get it together with simple things on this level there is so much that can be done and again if it is something that will hurt the game than keep it out I was just thinking out loud as I have many things running threw my head... And you all know when you get inspected and a player whisper you and say WOW... Your gear is so awesome!! Where you get it and how can I get it? You feel like a "Star" :P

Though I don't favor the idea as you laid it out, you do make some points. You've also taken some heat here and handled it graciously. Kudos to you.

Within this thread, I rather like the idea someone offered of another personal interaction (like trading/dueling) for the interaction wheel. If someone asks in chat about my gear, I could answer their questions or just allow the personal interaction of 'showing' them. The key is that if you are curious about what I'm wearing (either for style or effectiveness) ask and let me decide what I divulge. Or not.

Dirtybyrd

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

Dirtybyrd wrote: »

I did not mean for this to be about checking out others gear styles and equipped gear but mainly to see what others are wearing as a style and just ideals it can give. I get asked so much about my style and from guild mates about what I am wearing! I am sorry some of you do not feel the same way and I do understand about how it can be miss used and yes that part is garbage I know! But if somehow we could get it to wear it just maybe allow us to insect the style and setup transmog
and main gear that will not hurt anything in my opinion. Sometimes new players need that is it must be why I get asked as much each day about what I am wearing. I do reply when i get asked but sometimes I am afk and miss the player's about it or just to busy... this is 2020 it is time I feel the the gaming get it together with simple things on this level there is so much that can be done and again if it is something that will hurt the game than keep it out I was just thinking out loud as I have many things running threw my head... And you all know when you get inspected and a player whisper you and say WOW... Your gear is so awesome!! Where you get it and how can I get it? You feel like a "Star" :P

Though I don't favor the idea as you laid it out, you do make some points. You've also taken some heat here and handled it graciously. Kudos to you.

Within this thread, I rather like the idea someone offered of another personal interaction (like trading/dueling) for the interaction wheel. If someone asks in chat about my gear, I could answer their questions or just allow the personal interaction of 'showing' them. The key is that if you are curious about what I'm wearing (either for style or effectiveness) ask and let me decide what I divulge. Or not.

I like that, And yes I took some heat but it's cool who don't from time to time lol... But in all this maybe the best way to come up with something of the idea is in here some where. Also like what you are saying that we can allow them to inspect if we choose to... Just something in that nature

Tandor

Taunky wrote: »

I'm all for no, however, if this were to be a thing it would have to be toggle able via settings.

Unfortunately, that wouldn't get round the main problem. You'd be kicked from a group if you didn't measure up, but you'd also be kicked from a group if you didn't agree to be inspected in order to see whether you measured up. It would be optional in theory but not in practice.

As a solo/cooperative player in non-competitive PvE, none of that would bother me. However, I'm not remotely interested in inspecting other people and they do not remotely have any justification for inspecting me.

Tigerseye

No.

Bet you are the kind of person who likes to poke around in people's bathroom cabinets, as well.

Tigerseye

Lintashi wrote: »

Once, I went to Hel Ra normal with pug. Leader insisted us to toggle off anonymity of eso logs in settings, threatening to kick out those who will not do it.Then leader asked us to kill trash mobs and first boss. After, he/she just kicked several ppl, saying that looking at eso logs fight, they were not performing adequately. And this insanity was normal pug!

No one should put up with narcissistic people, like that.

Just leave.

xaraan

Lintashi wrote: »

Using ESO Logs?
ZOS very specifically made ESO Logs so that players can't get that info until after the combat has happened and the log is uploaded, precisely because concerns about what players would do with that info in real time.

It's not quite the same thing as being able to roll into a dungeon, inspect your group members, and try to vote kick anyone not up to your standards.

Once, I went to Hel Ra normal with pug. Leader insisted us to toggle off anonymity of eso logs in settings, threatening to kick out those who will not do it.Then leader asked us to kill trash mobs and first boss. After, he/she just kicked several ppl, saying that looking at eso logs fight, they were not performing adequately. And this insanity was normal pug!

Some incorrect info here, or just not the full picture perhaps.

1. You can do live logs and as soon as you do one fight see everything the other person has geared on the site. So the first trash pull in a trial or dungeon a lead could take a look at it and have the info they wanted.

2. It doesn't really matter if you leave yourself anonymous or not. It's just a bit more work, but even if no one allowed themselves to show their names, you can still figure out who is who based on what class they are and narrow it down every more easily with other info from the trial like what group or tasks they might have been given for particular fights. Literally everyone that's ever run anonymous with our guild we immediately pointed out to them who they were on logs and that they might as well mark their name.

My problem with Logs is the same as any toxic behavior you see. I've never seen it be a real issue with true end game players. Sure, you might see some real discussions come up over performance, hopefully privately, between a lead and player, hopefully with the goal of improving with some good advice and not just giving them crap. But most of the examples you see on forums (like the example in Hel Ra quoted above) are the same stories you get from group finder: it's the toxic players that THINK they are end gamers that are the problem.

As for the topic of inspection: You also end up with toxic players that have all their knowledge from build guides without any understanding why something works thinking they know everything. Or acting as if whatever streamer invented a build. I've literally NEVER seen a single streamer come up with a unique build. Most of the builds you see on sites are just obvious to people that understand the game. I can't tell you how many times someone has asked if I'm running so-and-so's build in pvp or pve and I have no idea who they are talking about. Don't get me wrong, I love checking out stuff from alcast or nefas or skinny for a trial build just to see if their group has thought of something my friends and I have not in a build, or to be lazy and copy trial CP lol, but by and large if you see a good player, they know how to build their character without help and know that whatever builds you see online are not the only way to do things. There are also times where copying someone's gear without knowing why it works won't help someone either. In the end, if you want to improve and come up with good builds, you should talk to players you've run with and trust and when you look at build guides from folks like Alcast, don't just copy the gear and skills - watch the video and read the info and see why something works the way it does. They often offer other options or explain why something works as well as it does in a particular type of run. But there are a lot of top players that don't stream or make videos, if you meet them, you can have that same conversation with them. I've had some good advice from a variety of players in a lot of different ways. Some stemmed from my questions, some from logs, some from others that have run with me a lot and recognize something that will fit the way I play better than another option, etc. Inspect player would tell you very little of what you really need to know.

Jeremy

Dirtybyrd wrote: »

I strongly feel it is time ZOS added inspecting a player to the game. It's not always looked at for gear score we will be able to look at the gear styles and also to see what the gear score is

No. Just no.

One only has to see the hell players put others through over their CP being visible to understand that.

If you are curious as to what someone is wearing, you can always just ask them.

majulook

I do not want other knowing what I have for armor. I specifically wear costumes to hide this.

VaranisArano

xaraan wrote: »

Lintashi wrote: »

Using ESO Logs?
ZOS very specifically made ESO Logs so that players can't get that info until after the combat has happened and the log is uploaded, precisely because concerns about what players would do with that info in real time.

It's not quite the same thing as being able to roll into a dungeon, inspect your group members, and try to vote kick anyone not up to your standards.

Once, I went to Hel Ra normal with pug. Leader insisted us to toggle off anonymity of eso logs in settings, threatening to kick out those who will not do it.Then leader asked us to kill trash mobs and first boss. After, he/she just kicked several ppl, saying that looking at eso logs fight, they were not performing adequately. And this insanity was normal pug!

Some incorrect info here, or just not the full picture perhaps.

1. You can do live logs and as soon as you do one fight see everything the other person has geared on the site. So the first trash pull in a trial or dungeon a lead could take a look at it and have the info they wanted.

2. It doesn't really matter if you leave yourself anonymous or not. It's just a bit more work, but even if no one allowed themselves to show their names, you can still figure out who is who based on what class they are and narrow it down every more easily with other info from the trial like what group or tasks they might have been given for particular fights. Literally everyone that's ever run anonymous with our guild we immediately pointed out to them who they were on logs and that they might as well mark their name.

My problem with Logs is the same as any toxic behavior you see. I've never seen it be a real issue with true end game players. Sure, you might see some real discussions come up over performance, hopefully privately, between a lead and player, hopefully with the goal of improving with some good advice and not just giving them crap. But most of the examples you see on forums (like the example in Hel Ra quoted above) are the same stories you get from group finder: it's the toxic players that THINK they are end gamers that are the problem.

As for the topic of inspection: You also end up with toxic players that have all their knowledge from build guides without any understanding why something works thinking they know everything. Or acting as if whatever streamer invented a build. I've literally NEVER seen a single streamer come up with a unique build. Most of the builds you see on sites are just obvious to people that understand the game. I can't tell you how many times someone has asked if I'm running so-and-so's build in pvp or pve and I have no idea who they are talking about. Don't get me wrong, I love checking out stuff from alcast or nefas or skinny for a trial build just to see if their group has thought of something my friends and I have not in a build, or to be lazy and copy trial CP lol, but by and large if you see a good player, they know how to build their character without help and know that whatever builds you see online are not the only way to do things. There are also times where copying someone's gear without knowing why it works won't help someone either. In the end, if you want to improve and come up with good builds, you should talk to players you've run with and trust and when you look at build guides from folks like Alcast, don't just copy the gear and skills - watch the video and read the info and see why something works the way it does. They often offer other options or explain why something works as well as it does in a particular type of run. But there are a lot of top players that don't stream or make videos, if you meet them, you can have that same conversation with them. I've had some good advice from a variety of players in a lot of different ways. Some stemmed from my questions, some from logs, some from others that have run with me a lot and recognize something that will fit the way I play better than another option, etc. Inspect player would tell you very little of what you really need to know.

At least with live ESO Logs, you get to do one fight before anyone starts judging.

With Inspecting gear, it's immediately judging a book by its cover.

Jeremy

VaranisArano wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Lintashi wrote: »

Using ESO Logs?
ZOS very specifically made ESO Logs so that players can't get that info until after the combat has happened and the log is uploaded, precisely because concerns about what players would do with that info in real time.

It's not quite the same thing as being able to roll into a dungeon, inspect your group members, and try to vote kick anyone not up to your standards.

Once, I went to Hel Ra normal with pug. Leader insisted us to toggle off anonymity of eso logs in settings, threatening to kick out those who will not do it.Then leader asked us to kill trash mobs and first boss. After, he/she just kicked several ppl, saying that looking at eso logs fight, they were not performing adequately. And this insanity was normal pug!

Some incorrect info here, or just not the full picture perhaps.

1. You can do live logs and as soon as you do one fight see everything the other person has geared on the site. So the first trash pull in a trial or dungeon a lead could take a look at it and have the info they wanted.

2. It doesn't really matter if you leave yourself anonymous or not. It's just a bit more work, but even if no one allowed themselves to show their names, you can still figure out who is who based on what class they are and narrow it down every more easily with other info from the trial like what group or tasks they might have been given for particular fights. Literally everyone that's ever run anonymous with our guild we immediately pointed out to them who they were on logs and that they might as well mark their name.

My problem with Logs is the same as any toxic behavior you see. I've never seen it be a real issue with true end game players. Sure, you might see some real discussions come up over performance, hopefully privately, between a lead and player, hopefully with the goal of improving with some good advice and not just giving them crap. But most of the examples you see on forums (like the example in Hel Ra quoted above) are the same stories you get from group finder: it's the toxic players that THINK they are end gamers that are the problem.

As for the topic of inspection: You also end up with toxic players that have all their knowledge from build guides without any understanding why something works thinking they know everything. Or acting as if whatever streamer invented a build. I've literally NEVER seen a single streamer come up with a unique build. Most of the builds you see on sites are just obvious to people that understand the game. I can't tell you how many times someone has asked if I'm running so-and-so's build in pvp or pve and I have no idea who they are talking about. Don't get me wrong, I love checking out stuff from alcast or nefas or skinny for a trial build just to see if their group has thought of something my friends and I have not in a build, or to be lazy and copy trial CP lol, but by and large if you see a good player, they know how to build their character without help and know that whatever builds you see online are not the only way to do things. There are also times where copying someone's gear without knowing why it works won't help someone either. In the end, if you want to improve and come up with good builds, you should talk to players you've run with and trust and when you look at build guides from folks like Alcast, don't just copy the gear and skills - watch the video and read the info and see why something works the way it does. They often offer other options or explain why something works as well as it does in a particular type of run. But there are a lot of top players that don't stream or make videos, if you meet them, you can have that same conversation with them. I've had some good advice from a variety of players in a lot of different ways. Some stemmed from my questions, some from logs, some from others that have run with me a lot and recognize something that will fit the way I play better than another option, etc. Inspect player would tell you very little of what you really need to know.

At least with live ESO Logs, you get to do one fight before anyone starts judging.

With Inspecting gear, it's immediately judging a book by its cover.

Agreed.

Players would just be tossed out after a quick inspection - as if they were part of a faulty supply line - without ever being given a chance to prove themselves. The harm a change like this would do would dramatically outweigh any good.

ESO is a great game in many ways. But it is not blessed with a forgiving or open-minded community when it comes to running content.

Ghnami

Just like names in ESO logs, this should be a feature that you can turn on and off. I'm a pretty developed endgame player, and if people in public dungeons could see just how much damage my gryphon/VO setup does it might make it less intimidating. Easy to get sets, great results, and maybe their visibility would help people recognize they don't need rele/lokk to crush vet content inthis game.

Jeremy

Ghnami wrote: »

Just like names in ESO logs, this should be a feature that you can turn on and off. I'm a pretty developed endgame player, and if people in public dungeons could see just how much damage my gryphon/VO setup does it might make it less intimidating. Easy to get sets, great results, and maybe their visibility would help people recognize they don't need rele/lokk to crush vet content inthis game.

That sounds reasonable. But people would probably just start kicking others who turned it off.