Dyvim wrote: »

Sorry, I almost fell out of my chair at this one...you list a GW2 "PROBLEM" as stack size limited to 250 in the JOINT crafting tab that could store 250 of every single mat in the game, which was accessible, for crafting, without having to go to a bank, to every toon on the account...and also, a huge QoL feature, you could deposit into the craft tab, directly FROM INVENTORY without having to go back to a bank in town...and you call that a PROBLEM??? If that is what you call a problem then the state that this game's inventory is in is a complete and total apocalyptic disaster of biblical proportions - and you are here trying to defend it???

Good grief, did you even read what you typed??? A "minigame" of constant, tedious inventory management is not appealing to many players, especially as other games have provided better systems, and players do NOT want to go back to more primitive conditions. This should surprise no one.

Between you and LadyintheLake you make arguments for change, inadvertently, that are just great and compelling. Keep it up.

I really begin to question your reading comprehension, or basic discussion skills in general.

in one post you complain the bank is shared thus less space across chars then you promote a bank with 250 item per stack with single stack slots (and that you could bank from every char has exactly what to do with the discussion about the amount of bank slots?). so you're saying because it's better in your opinion it has no problems whatsoever? oookay. you really should get that ignoring problem checked out.

your whole argument boils down to ZOS WHY U NO COPY THIS OR THAT FROM THAT GAME (completely ignoring everything else). what's next, flying mounts? hey, they ARE more appealing, players pay real money for them and as you said players want convenience above all else. win/win for everybody!

even more interesting is that you think the devs don't see that as well. either you managed to ignore that during your hissy fits or you actually think they're stupid.
if you really wan't to convince the devs you need some good arguments for them to spend the devtime and money on it (and no "waaah players quit!!" either, considering people quit for all kinds of reasons all the time, even for stuff the devs limited on purpose. which should tell you they're not creating a bland mess trying to appeal to as much people as possible *cough* unlike gw2 *cough* but have strict design goals and intentions).

it would also help to get a clue instead in incessantly hyping gw2's inventory AND ACTUALLY read what people post - because all this has already been discussed in other threads at length (yes, pls continue to make more threads about this topic, you might actually trick someone to think it's more important this way.).

some links that might help you:
http://gamedevelopment.tutsplus.com/articles/designing-an-rpg-inventory-system-that-fits-preliminary-steps--gamedev-14725
http://www.gamedev.net/topic/621945-mmo-inventory-discussion/
http://my.mmosite.com/2424376/blog/ritem/game_theory_inventing_the_inventory.html

with that I'm out, you don't really need me to make yourself look like fool.

The thing is, if they did add very high cap crafting bank inventory like GW2 has, they would also have to add other balancing elements to that to limit the supply of materials -- limited professions (even back and forth like GW2 had), crafting tools that wear out and need to be replaced/upgraded per tier, and overall a greatly reduced supply of materials being generated from nodes and crafting alike.

The inventory cap now acts as a cap on materials. Instead of controlling it at the point of generation (fewer nodes, fewer mats from decons, requiring crafting professions or special tools, limiting what can be worked on at once), they control it at the point of storage.

Players find this very irritating because it is far from a familiar and common way to do it in the context of the sheer biblical flood of materials that this game throws at you. Inventory limits are accepted in principle, but it's the strict and expensive nature of them here when coupled with the flood of "theoretically available" materials that leads to the frustration. It's not that intuitive for players to not loot stuff that is available for them to loot because they are very worried about storage. Yes, that happened in the early stages of TES games before people either sorted their storage in game with housing, or outright modded it out of the game -- needless to say, it was not a very popular feature. In an MMO obviously there need to be some limits in terms of controlling the overall supply of items, but this way of doing it -- having loads of stuff generated/findable, but forcing players to leave it alone due to space limits that are expensive to upgrade -- was bound to cause a huge amount of frustration among the playerbase because it is simply not intuitive based on how other MMOs work, where one only very rarely needs to forego looting due to space, once one is out of the very earliest parts of the game.

The problem is that changing this would require reworking the entire loot/material system from the ground up. Right now, the system has very negligible supply limits -- mats (other than tempers, which have been kept to a much rarer table) are generated like fountains, either on the map or at the crafting table. A system which freed up space for many more crafting mats would need to tamp down the generation of those mats to keep the overall supply more or less constant. That would include gear drops as well, because in TESO, gear drops are essentially a crafting mat. So it would also impact non-crafters. Likely also other limits would need to be considered or outright introduced, like limiting crafting professions to a hard cap, making gathering of mats require a specific profession and tools, and so on.

While it's possible to think of them making that kind of redesign, it won't happen soon, that's for certain. And while I also dislike this design (I find it very frustrating to use this system as the cap on materials and crafting), it isn't realistic to expect Zenimax to just up the bank slots or just create a GW style crafting collection bank in a vacuum -- that kind of change could only happen if the entire system were redesigned, which, if it happens, won't happen anytime soon.

Personally, this has restricted my crafting play. My main now doesn't craft much. A bit of alchemy for pots, which is manageable because it has a capped and unchanging by tier (other than water) mat table. Provisioning is already at 50, so I don't store anything for that other than the few specific mats I want for my currently favored buff. I deconstruct some items here and there, but mostly sell everything else. Less aggravation, and less time spent managing inventory, but also less time playing the crafting side of the game because I don't like how it makes me play the game -- i don't enjoy it. So I'd also like them to change the system, for sure -- I just don't think it's realistic to expect a change soon, if at all, because it would require redoing the whole system, not just the bank spaces, due to the principal role that the bank spaces are playing in restricting supply in the game.

kawazu874b16_ESO wrote: »

How can you compare gw2 crafting and teso one. In gw2 resources are character implemented at low respawn rate, here they're world implemented at a high respawn rate. In gw2 there a many currencies, in teso gold's importance isn't comparable. The only thing comparable I've found is that cooking is very useful and awful for inventory

That's the most reasonable argument I've read in this entire thread.

Draaconis wrote: »

In GW2 everyone could loot each node so this is not going to happen. Also, you are encouraging everyone to pick up every pebble they trip over off of the ground and bank it.

I get the first part but I'm not sure I understand why it's so bad if people want to store a lot of crafting materials.

Interview with Paul Sage, Creative Director of ESO wrote:

Q: Since crafting materials take up space in our inventory…Would it be possible to implement crafting bags for strictly crafting materials?

A: Our inventory space and bank space provides a much needed gold sink. Something useful to spend your money on. Currently, that friction is useful to the game, and removing that isn’t something I think we want to pursue at this time.

Q: Items for crafting take a lot of place. Will you implement an interface dedicated to crafting items like GW2 or Neverwinter ?

A: Bank space and inventory space are friction elements for the economy. It is unlikely we will have a dedicate crafting inventory in the near future. Choice is important.

Q: I love the fact that you can leave items in your bank and still use them for crafting. My concern is, I guess I horde to much of everything since I’m crafting everything, and run out of space really really quick. Is there away to fix this, or should i simple just keep selling my mats and make low level items to makes space?

A: I would say you are going to have to make some choices about what you keep and what you don’t. Bank space / inventory space is another limiter to being able to work on all crafting skills at once. It isn’t impossible, it is just harder if that is what you choose to do. There’s also a TV show about your “problem.”

Source

Dyvim wrote: »

Yeah thanks for reposting something I read weeks ago, in multiple threads, that has already been posted in this thread. We know they want to inconvenience players by friction in inventory...they are wrong. I can say that as a paying customer that convenience of features can and often trumps what they are calling choice...but it isn't REALLY choice. It is friction, which means arbitrary, artificial limitations that require players to make allowances for a crap system. They are just trying to sell it as choice....choice is having classes to choice from, or weapons to choose from...that is choice that is feature rich. Making players put up with the tedium of the forced inventory shuffle minigame is not choice.

Couple of things about MMOs. They change. A lot. So the defense that something is good because some developer came up with it and currently defends it is laughable especially in the face of widespread, YES, WIDESPREAD player dissatisfaction with it. So claiming something is good simply because it is a given way now, ESPECIALLY right at launch, is idiotic. If we all had a dollar for everytime developers back pedaled and made substantial game changes, reversing previous statements and being forced to eat their own words, we would be gazillionaires....

Your entire post and every other post you've made is nothing more than opinion and not fact and therefore does not hold up under any critical scrutiny or reason. I am done engaging in this discussion with you kid. You just keep telling everyone about how you're entitled to everything you want there Veruca Salt. You bought a game that you have called a "crap sandwich" and you did it so you could complain that it's a "crap sandwich".

Good luck with your crusade to get the game to adapt to you instead of adapting to the game.