Game DESPERATELY needs a common crafting materials storage bank, GW2 style.

Dyvim

The crafting in ESO can be a very strong component of satisfying game play...but it has issues, and one of the main ones is the INCREDIBLE annoyance of finding all these interesting materials, scores upon scores of them, and constantly having clogged inventory.

There are crafting areas I would like to have fun with, like alchemy, but frankly don't have the space or the desire anymore to battle the constant inventory problems.

What makes the situation even more annoying is that perfect solutions for this problem exist, which, given the massive nature of the crafting material catalogue in ESO, should have been EASILY foreseen by the devs. Sorry for the GW2 comparison, but that game in many ways is a paragon of enlightened quality of life features for players (e.g.,dye system)...and the shared, account wide, very large capacity crafting material storage is a prime example of this...in a non-subscription, F2P game.

I'll repeat that...this IS A SUBSCRIPTION game...I do not expect to be nickled and dimed in game with tight inventory issues that a F2P game handles better and with less expense/hassle. Again, the common bank is nice....but is COMPLETELY inadequate for crafting OR even just for basic storage, considering it is shared across all alts. At a minimum, EACH ALT should have there own 60 slot TAB, and all the tabs should be accessible to all the toons on the account. Again, the common bank is nice, BUT, the more alts I have, the tighter bank storage becomes...this is nuts.

I'll say it again...THIS IS A SUBSCRIPTION game. I should not have these kind of inventory or crafting material storage hassles. The game and crafting has great potential, but when you have people creating alts simply to have mules to store things in their backpacks, because the system is so unworkable without such inelegant "work arounds", that should be another obvious indicator that there is a problem. I am really tired of harvesting alchemical components, or enchanting components, only to have to delete them later because space has again become a critical issue.

I am excited about this game and hope to be playing for a long time...but am puzzled by issues like this that are just inexcusable. You make a system that encourages players to take up multiple crafting professions...create a complex crafting system with MANY tiers and near COUNTLESS components, then you have one of the tightest, most annoying inventory systems in a subscription (or even F2P game, where extra expense or hassle for decent inventory space is common) game I have ever seen. Please address this issue.

Sproeikoei

You feel like there is a reason to state that Guild Wars 2 is a f2p game (which it's not) and that this is a subscription based game. But it happens to be that it's completely irrelevant so let's leave that out for the moment.

Now, how I read your statement is that you would prefer a Guild Wars 2 clone over the Elder Scrolls' immersion, which practically (as all of us TES players have experienced) the full inventory is a part of: becoming over-encumbered, having to make priorities and choices over what you might need more over something else.

This allows you think and stay active in the game and not make it a boring grind of looting everything you can just for the sake of looting. (Like you would do on your first Morrowind experience) . Where you would pick up every plate and Kwama egg and what not, and not know that the amount of weight they bare generally doesn't weigh (pun not intended) up to the worth you can get out of it in gold.

It almost seems like, with lack of a better word, you're spoiled by the convenience of the options Guild Wars 2 offers.
But do bear in mind. This IS an Elder Scrolls game and it's intent was NOT to copy other games, only to become the pseudo-best of all the other MMOs out there. But to give Elder Scrolls fans the Online TES experience they've so longed for.

Dyvim

Your generalization is woefully inadequate. Since when does immersion equal constant inventory hassle? Also, my distinction is COMPLETELY relevant, since non subscription games frequently make inventory space a hassle so they can SELL more space in their cash shops. No, I am not asking for a GW2 clone, but it is undeniable that GW2, WHICH IS F2P (you can play the game without using the cash shop, or paying them a subscription, if that isn't F2P, wtf is???), has done some things far better than this game is doing them...the way they handle crafting material storage across alts is a PRIME example. Dyes is another one. Inventory systems and crafting materials storage is something countless MMOs have had to address. They are common core systems, and a major quality of life issue in a game, when done poorly. Sometimes they are done poorly to strong arm f2p'ers into buying more space. They are done poorly in this game, a subscription game. If you think it provides you immersion to have a poor inventory system, that's great. Other players think it is just poor design and not paying attention to your customers.

Also, this game's inventory is not weight based, its slot based, which makes reagents more problematic than in a weight based system, like what you referenced. What is more boring? Gathering reagents that you are interested in, OR having to continuously frak around with clogged inventory space which frequently results in deleting the things you spent time gathering??? Or even worse, having to waste time transferring mats to a mule alt you had to make JUST to try to overcome the storage limitations of this game...now that is frak all boring AND just plain annoying and inconvenient. People in my guild commonly are having to make spreadsheets to keep track of this craptastic mule storage system across alts. This is again EPIC FAIL game design. You should be able to easily figure that one out.

I am a paying customer, wtf do you mean spoiled? They are features that other NON SUBSCRIPTION games have delivered on better than this game, and if anything, with the scope of the crafting material catalogue in this game, it needs a robust, enlightened design behind its inventory system EVEN MORE...as of now, it DOES NOT deliver. Period. As a paying customer, not a spoiled free loader, I am requesting they take a look at a better set of solutions. I'm pretty sure that is one of the best uses these forums can be put to...

Catches_the_Sun

I have to agree with @Sproekoei on this. I am a level 50 Provisioner & 38 Blacksmith and have 7 alts, none of which are "mules". I was on these forums a week ago saying the same thing you're saying...that we need a system similar to GW2. After another week of playing, I understood the Provisioning system better. I cleared out ingredients that were in tiers that I no longer need & from Alliances for which I didn't even have recipes. What this does is allows the up-and-coming Provisioner to make the lower tier items as they move up, rather than me, at level 50, trying to provide for everybody. I think that is a good system. In GW2, why would I go to a lower level Chef if the capped-out guy has stored 250 of each ingredient? I wouldn't.

The same can be true for most of the other crafting classes. I only keep 3 tiers of smithing ore/ingots at a time. When I move to another tier, I send my lower tier stuff to Guildmates that are working the craft. Let those guys make Tier 1 & Tier 2 gear.

I have 90 bank slots & 108 inventory slots right now. After cleaning up my inventory, I still have 50 free slots when I go adventuring. I can make any tier 4 food or drink green/blue/purple, and have stacks of every racial & trait stone, along with ore/ingots for steel/orichalcum/dwarven. I have 18 pieces of armor/weapons waiting to be researched, and I carry a stack of every fishing lure, along with potions & food/drink. I don't think it's a problem right now unless you're that guy that's trying to be self-sufficient across all level ranges. This game forces you to make decisions as Sproekoei said.

Abeille

A game doesn't have to ditch every convenient feature that other games have just to be different. It is already pretty different just with the combat system.

Since we do not have homes to store our stuff or the weight system, saying that good systems that other MMOS have are missing because "this is a TES game" makes no sense.

I like that we have to make choices, but I wouldn't mind more inventory space and a bank tab just for mats.

And GW2 is b2p (buy to play).

LadyInTheWater

Sometimes I wonder how it is that I can be working on every crafting profession at the same time, with no "mule" alts holding anything, and I'm having no issues with my inventory space at all.

Either I'm doing something wrong, or everyone who's complaining about inventory space is doing something wrong.

I'd really love some enlightenment on this.

Sproeikoei

There are a lot of things that can be said here but I believe you will stand your ground.
I have already stated my opinion on how I experience the game's inventory system and I hope it will give you some insight on how other people than yourself look at the game and games in general.

I would recommend making a poll thread on this matter.

Dyvim

Catches_the_Sun wrote: »

I have to agree with @Sproekoei on this. I am a level 50 Provisioner & 38 Blacksmith and ... This game forces you to make decisions as Sproekoei said.

There is NOTHING inherently good about having to "make decisions" especially in something as basic as an inventory system. We aren't talking about skills or traits here. Also, so say you are restricted to top tier mats. Great...this seems particularly inappropriate as a provisioner...how about crafting for your lower level alts as they level? Let someone else do it? WHY? I would MUCH rather craft for myself in that instance, especially when I have taken the trouble to master the trade and have SPENT SKILL POINTS to enhance the effects of my food where other low level crafters might not have...again, is seems irrational to suggest you should depend on other crafters for products in a trade you have mastered and have invested skill points in - in order to be able to make better products. That is just silly.

You can try to put a happy face on it or rationalize it all you like. The bottom line is this games inventory system IS NOTHING SPECIAL. It has SHORTCOMINGS. Shortcomings that become glaringly obvious when you look at the nature of the game...you can engage in multiple crafting professions, and you have to deal with a VAST catalogue of mats.

Dyvim

LadyInTheWater wrote: »

Sometimes I wonder how it is that I can be working on every crafting profession at the same time, with no "mule" alts holding anything, and I'm having no issues with my inventory space at all.

Either I'm doing something wrong, or everyone who's complaining about inventory space is doing something wrong.

I'd really love some enlightenment on this.

I would love some too, you must be a freak of nature in the MMO space. Or you must not do anything other than sit at crafting tables, where you are not actually going OUTSIDE of the town and adventuring to gather materials or collect other loot. Otherwise, what you describe IS IMPOSSIBLE. There is absolutely no way you are working ON EVERY CRAFTING PROFESSION and are not having space issues.

Abeille

LadyInTheWater wrote: »

Sometimes I wonder how it is that I can be working on every crafting profession at the same time, with no "mule" alts holding anything, and I'm having no issues with my inventory space at all.

Either I'm doing something wrong, or everyone who's complaining about inventory space is doing something wrong.

I'd really love some enlightenment on this.

People just have to go to cities more frequently. The problem is that a lot of us simply do not want to. If I could stay a little longer exploring the world before having to go back to a city, I would be so happy...

At least my main is only leveling enchanting.

Dyvim

Sproeikoei wrote: »

There are a lot of things that can be said here but I believe you will stand your ground.
I have already stated my opinion on how I experience the game's inventory system and I hope it will give you some insight on how other people than yourself look at the game and games in general.

I would recommend making a poll thread on this matter.

That is fair. You are right, I am going to stand my ground, because as a long time gamer whose first video game was Pong and who started PnP in the late '70s, I do not have a lot of tolerance or a desire to rationalize away poor design, especially when other games in the MMO space have exhibited MUCH BETTER design in this one area. This is an issue of logistics, convenience, and QoL. Not of cloning or fan boi'ing for this game or another one. When you experience component systems that work in other games, and are far superior to what the newest game on the block has delivered, it is puzzling that they would 1)feel they needed to reinvent the wheel on a core system and 2) how they could do it so badly, when far better examples are prevalent and available...and its not like they can hide these facts from their customers.

You are also missing some important points. First off, this is NOT a single player game like previous TES offerings. There is no weight encumbrance, a common mechanic in solo RPGs. This is not a solo RPG. As an MMO, it has a whole different set of imperatives, as well as a different set of game mechanics and different requirements driving those mechanics. For example...ALTS, and their storage issues. This should be so obvious, but it appears you need to think about these issues while you are trying to rationalize away the poor design of this games inventory and crafting material storage systems. In other words, stop making excuses for something that sux, needlessly.

Dyvim

Abeille wrote: »

LadyInTheWater wrote: »

Sometimes I wonder how it is that I can be working on every crafting profession at the same time, with no "mule" alts holding anything, and I'm having no issues with my inventory space at all.

Either I'm doing something wrong, or everyone who's complaining about inventory space is doing something wrong.

I'd really love some enlightenment on this.

People just have to go to cities more frequently. The problem is that a lot of us simply do not want to. If I could stay a little longer exploring the world before having to go back to a city, I would be so happy...

At least my main is only leveling enchanting.

I don't care if she has her own high speed bullet train back to town...there is NO WAY she is doing ALL CRAFTING PROFESSIONS and not having inventory issues.

Bushy808ub17_ESO

Before my bank bug, i had a 90 slot bank and now have 112 inventory space with my horse. I am trying to do all the crafts for the researching of traits and whatnot. But I still plan on doing all the crafts with this one character as I unlock more skillpoints in the future. Being stated, other than Provisioning, I am not having inventory issues.

On the topic of wanting to craft for my alts...thats why im doing everything, to gear my later characters. I have 1 mule character and its to carry the low end materials I now longer craft for myself in, and no longer see in the world around me.

Provisioning. I destroy that which my alliance can't cook, I destroy low end foods.

On the topic of needing materials for these alts. As the alts get leveld, i collect, like i would on my main. Ship it to the main and craft it, then send it back.

I have not had massive inventory issues. Just needing to spend a little more time organizing and making decisions.

On the topic of decision making in the game...Yes, inventory is on that list, always has been for Elder Scrolls Games. If you want to do everything, its going to require some hoarding. The game treats inventory space as real as it can, and with out throwing the weight aspect in, this is how they solve it. More items to work with than you can actually carry. Why? Because that is far more into realism than being able to have everything neatly squared away for you with out needing to do anything to facilitate that happening. Blind hoarding isn't rewarded here.

I'll repeat that...this IS A SUBSCRIPTION game...I do not expect to be nickled and dimed in game with tight inventory issues that a F2P game handles better and with less expense/hassle.

Money for banking....its obviously one of the money sinks. Your not being nickle-and-dimed. That statement implies that your being charged RL money as well for your storage needs. Its a money sink, the gold isn't for hoarding too, they need you to spend it to create gold flow in the game and give it value by not having oodles of it with nothing to spend it on. Nothing about it being a sub game means that you are required an easy inventory system. Addons will change a lot of that for you. Why does GW2 have such a super-user-friendly-collect-everything system? Because you buy it once, and then never hand them a dollar unless you play and use the cash shop, therefore, they need to entice you to stick around with 'super-easy-to-use-features' and guess what other game did that....WoW, and look where they are at now...In my day EverQuest was hard as ***. And WoW vanilla was hard too. Now its the game everyone heads to after Runescape in their MMO journey.

Future storage needs, I would like to see player housing come with the ability to store a lot more items, should/if that ever happen of course.

Jadeviper1974

I agree, there needs to be a separate space to store materials.

Dyvim

Bushy808ub17_ESO wrote: »

...Nothing about it being a sub game means that you are required an easy inventory system. ..
Future storage needs, I would like to see player housing come with the ability to store a lot more items, should/if that ever happen of course.

No just quality, well designed games have easy inventory systems...since most players would rather be adventuring or enjoying other parts of the game than screwing around with mules or fraking with inventory all the time. Again, this isn't a single player RPG. There are other mechanics/imperatives, like alts, etc. So running back to the "managing your encumbrance was so l33t and fun" just doesn't cut it here.

Also, the reality in the MMO space today is that F2P games make scarce inventory systems in order to cash shop money out of their players. That is a fact. Having a subscription game with a, at best, lackluster, poorly designed system, that doesn't expand as you generate alts, is just inexcusable.

Housing, real housing, and guild cities where their crafters could be showcased would also be nice, I agree.

Sproeikoei

As I have stated before: there is no point in continuing this discussion. Even other people have made statements on how you could approach the situation but you seem to refuse it.

derpmonster

Sproeikoei wrote: »

You feel like there is a reason to state that Guild Wars 2 is a f2p game (which it's not) and that this is a subscription based game. But it happens to be that it's completely irrelevant so let's leave that out for the moment.

Now, how I read your statement is that you would prefer a Guild Wars 2 clone over the Elder Scrolls' immersion, which practically (as all of us TES players have experienced) the full inventory is a part of: becoming over-encumbered, having to make priorities and choices over what you might need more over something else.

This allows you think and stay active in the game and not make it a boring grind of looting everything you can just for the sake of looting. (Like you would do on your first Morrowind experience) . Where you would pick up every plate and Kwama egg and what not, and not know that the amount of weight they bare generally doesn't weigh (pun not intended) up to the worth you can get out of it in gold.

It almost seems like, with lack of a better word, you're spoiled by the convenience of the options Guild Wars 2 offers.
But do bear in mind. This IS an Elder Scrolls game and it's intent was NOT to copy other games, only to become the pseudo-best of all the other MMOs out there. But to give Elder Scrolls fans the Online TES experience they've so longed for.

Do you actually believe that dealing with a full inventory every 20-30 minutes leads to immersion?

If so that is just mind blowing. To me that makes the game tedious, which is the exact opposite of fun.

And I'm proud to say that I'm spoiled by the convenience that I'm shown in GW2. Anet has shown that arbitrary restrictions in an mmo don't need to exist because reasons ???.

Dyvim

derpmonster wrote: »

Sproeikoei wrote: »

You feel like there is a reason to state that Guild Wars 2 is a f2p game (which it's not) and that this is a subscription based game. But it happens to be that it's completely irrelevant so let's leave that out for the moment.

Now, how I read your statement is that you would prefer a Guild Wars 2 clone over the Elder Scrolls' immersion, which practically (as all of us TES players have experienced) the full inventory is a part of: becoming over-encumbered, having to make priorities and choices over what you might need more over something else.

This allows you think and stay active in the game and not make it a boring grind of looting everything you can just for the sake of looting. (Like you would do on your first Morrowind experience) . Where you would pick up every plate and Kwama egg and what not, and not know that the amount of weight they bare generally doesn't weigh (pun not intended) up to the worth you can get out of it in gold.

It almost seems like, with lack of a better word, you're spoiled by the convenience of the options Guild Wars 2 offers.
But do bear in mind. This IS an Elder Scrolls game and it's intent was NOT to copy other games, only to become the pseudo-best of all the other MMOs out there. But to give Elder Scrolls fans the Online TES experience they've so longed for.

Do you actually believe that dealing with a full inventory every 20-30 minutes leads to immersion?

If so that is just mind blowing. To me that makes the game tedious, which is the exact opposite of fun.

And I'm proud to say that I'm spoiled by the convenience that I'm shown in GW2. Anet has shown that arbitrary restrictions in an mmo don't need to exist because reasons ???.

So well said, the rationalizing going on here for this poor system is really disappointing and bewildering to see.

Dyvim

Sproeikoei wrote: »

As I have stated before: there is no point in continuing this discussion. Even other people have made statements on how you could approach the situation but you seem to refuse it.

There are more people in the thread that disagree with your attempt to rationalize the poor implementation of inventory and material storage in this game. I can tell you from my guild of OVER 500 separate accounts (needs an overflow), I have not heard ONE PERSON praise or voice satisfaction with the current system...what I have heard is a lot of dissatisfaction and inconvenient work arounds (mules). Of course the inventory bugs haven't been useful either.

Yes, my experience educates me as to what works and what doesn't work in BASIC, CORE game systems, just as it has for others in this thread. What you fail to grasp is that a lot of people don't like having to hassle with constant inventory issues, FREQUENTLY. It is tedious, it is boring, it is a sign of poor design or arbitrary limitation.

"And what is good, Phaedrus, And what is not good—Need we ask anyone to tell us these things?"

Sproeikoei

derpmonster wrote: »

Sproeikoei wrote: »

You feel like there is a reason to state that Guild Wars 2 is a f2p game (which it's not) and that this is a subscription based game. But it happens to be that it's completely irrelevant so let's leave that out for the moment.

Now, how I read your statement is that you would prefer a Guild Wars 2 clone over the Elder Scrolls' immersion, which practically (as all of us TES players have experienced) the full inventory is a part of: becoming over-encumbered, having to make priorities and choices over what you might need more over something else.

This allows you think and stay active in the game and not make it a boring grind of looting everything you can just for the sake of looting. (Like you would do on your first Morrowind experience) . Where you would pick up every plate and Kwama egg and what not, and not know that the amount of weight they bare generally doesn't weigh (pun not intended) up to the worth you can get out of it in gold.

It almost seems like, with lack of a better word, you're spoiled by the convenience of the options Guild Wars 2 offers.
But do bear in mind. This IS an Elder Scrolls game and it's intent was NOT to copy other games, only to become the pseudo-best of all the other MMOs out there. But to give Elder Scrolls fans the Online TES experience they've so longed for.

Do you actually believe that dealing with a full inventory every 20-30 minutes leads to immersion?

If so that is just mind blowing. To me that makes the game tedious, which is the exact opposite of fun.

And I'm proud to say that I'm spoiled by the convenience that I'm shown in GW2. Anet has shown that arbitrary restrictions in an mmo don't need to exist because reasons ???.

It is completely dependent on your own play-style whether you have to go to town every 20-30 minutes or not.
Again (this has been stated multiple times within this thread alone already) it's about making choices: If you loot every barrel you come across then yes your inventory will be full, if you want to keep everything you find then yes your bank will be full.

If you don't grasp the simple fact that when you make the choice of looting everything and that the consequence is that your inventory is going to be full, then maybe you just want a game where you can rush through to the endgame content and that's it. And to be really fair, crafting has already been made quite easy on us.

This is Elder Scrolls and an MMO and for some reason the MMO elitists tend to get really mad at minor things and the Elder Scrolls segment seems to dislike some stuff but accept it.
I personally believe there is a certain maturity in accepting that which is provided to you and learning to deal with or work around it is one of the many aspects of gaming.

Abeille

derpmonster wrote: »

Sproeikoei wrote: »

You feel like there is a reason to state that Guild Wars 2 is a f2p game (which it's not) and that this is a subscription based game. But it happens to be that it's completely irrelevant so let's leave that out for the moment.

Now, how I read your statement is that you would prefer a Guild Wars 2 clone over the Elder Scrolls' immersion, which practically (as all of us TES players have experienced) the full inventory is a part of: becoming over-encumbered, having to make priorities and choices over what you might need more over something else.

This allows you think and stay active in the game and not make it a boring grind of looting everything you can just for the sake of looting. (Like you would do on your first Morrowind experience) . Where you would pick up every plate and Kwama egg and what not, and not know that the amount of weight they bare generally doesn't weigh (pun not intended) up to the worth you can get out of it in gold.

It almost seems like, with lack of a better word, you're spoiled by the convenience of the options Guild Wars 2 offers.
But do bear in mind. This IS an Elder Scrolls game and it's intent was NOT to copy other games, only to become the pseudo-best of all the other MMOs out there. But to give Elder Scrolls fans the Online TES experience they've so longed for.

Do you actually believe that dealing with a full inventory every 20-30 minutes leads to immersion?

If so that is just mind blowing. To me that makes the game tedious, which is the exact opposite of fun.

And I'm proud to say that I'm spoiled by the convenience that I'm shown in GW2. Anet has shown that arbitrary restrictions in an mmo don't need to exist because reasons ???.

ANet seems to be all about convenience indeed. Look at yesterday's update. EVERYTHING is account bound!
I don't think we have to go as far as ANet went. Really, it was a bit too much. To be honest the only limitation of the game that really makes me angry is the lack of black hair for the Altmer. Other than that, the limitations are bothersome, but nothing else.

Dyvim

Sproeikoei wrote: »

derpmonster wrote: »

Sproeikoei wrote: »

You feel like there is a reason to state that Guild Wars 2 is a f2p game (which it's not) and that this is a subscription based game. But it happens to be that it's completely irrelevant so let's leave that out for the moment.

Now, how I read your statement is that you would prefer a Guild Wars 2 clone over the Elder Scrolls' immersion, which practically (as all of us TES players have experienced) the full inventory is a part of: becoming over-encumbered, having to make priorities and choices over what you might need more over something else.

This allows you think and stay active in the game and not make it a boring grind of looting everything you can just for the sake of looting. (Like you would do on your first Morrowind experience) . Where you would pick up every plate and Kwama egg and what not, and not know that the amount of weight they bare generally doesn't weigh (pun not intended) up to the worth you can get out of it in gold.

It almost seems like, with lack of a better word, you're spoiled by the convenience of the options Guild Wars 2 offers.
But do bear in mind. This IS an Elder Scrolls game and it's intent was NOT to copy other games, only to become the pseudo-best of all the other MMOs out there. But to give Elder Scrolls fans the Online TES experience they've so longed for.

Do you actually believe that dealing with a full inventory every 20-30 minutes leads to immersion?

If so that is just mind blowing. To me that makes the game tedious, which is the exact opposite of fun.

And I'm proud to say that I'm spoiled by the convenience that I'm shown in GW2. Anet has shown that arbitrary restrictions in an mmo don't need to exist because reasons ???.

...
I personally believe there is a certain maturity in accepting that which is provided to you and learning to deal with or work around it is one of the many aspects of gaming.

I personally believe there is a certain weakness in character and lack of intelligence when you are a paying customer and are willing to line up like a lemming and except a substandard product, particularly when better products are out there for all to see. I snicker at the "Thank you sir, may I have another?" mentality. There is nothing mature about getting short changed and rationalizing being hosed.

Just accepting what you are given, when you are a paying customer in a game with the high end cost model for the industry (buy the game, plus pay a subscription), is incredibly naïve. Especially when it is an MMO, whose very nature is to change and evolve over time, especially in the area of QoL enhancements that are often skimped on to make a launch date.

Sproeikoei

Dyvim wrote: »

Sproeikoei wrote: »

As I have stated before: there is no point in continuing this discussion. Even other people have made statements on how you could approach the situation but you seem to refuse it.

There are more people in the thread that disagree with your attempt to rationalize the poor implementation of inventory and material storage in this game. I can tell you from my guild of OVER 500 separate accounts (needs an overflow), I have not heard ONE PERSON praise or voice satisfaction with the current system...what I have heard is a lot of dissatisfaction and inconvenient work arounds (mules). Of course the inventory bugs haven't been useful either.

Yes, my experience educates me as to what works and what doesn't work in BASIC, CORE game systems, just as it has for others in this thread. What you fail to grasp is that a lot of people don't like having to hassle with constant inventory issues, FREQUENTLY. It is tedious, it is boring, it is a sign of poor design or arbitrary limitation.

"And what is good, Phaedrus, And what is not good—Need we ask anyone to tell us these things?"

I leave it at this. You're very emotional about this point and about how greedily people should take your advice. You're making a lot of assumptions and basing your points off of that.

The irony in your quote in regard to your statement just before that is something you might have missed.

Abeille

Just one thing: If every ESO player just accepted what was given to them, we wouldn't have character collision, even if it is just with npcs. Also, our characters wouldn't start where they start now, but at a much smaller island, we would have to run the tutorial every time we made a new character, none of the containers would be instanced and our bag space would be even smaller.
A MMO is never finished. There is always room for improvement and I like to see people making suggestions instead of simply leaving the game.

Sproeikoei

@Abeille‌

I agree on that, thanks for the eye opener.

After all, we're on the same side here, trying to have a better experience one way or another.

Brennan

Dyvim wrote: »

I personally believe there is a certain weakness in character and lack of intelligence when you are a paying customer and are willing to line up like a lemming and except a substandard product, particularly when better products are out there for all to see. I snicker at the "Thank you sir, may I have another?" mentality. There is nothing mature about getting short changed and rationalizing being hosed.

If this is a substandard product stop paying for it and lining up like the rest of us lemmings and go play GW2. In the meantime, let those of us who have learned to adapt and still enjoy the game without ranting on the forums continue to do so.

I in no way feel disadvantaged or taken advantage of by an inventory system of all things, ESO, or ZOS. If you do, it's subscription based so instead of making another poll or even another thread - vote with your wallet and GTFO.

knightblaster

Dyvim wrote: »

LadyInTheWater wrote: »

Sometimes I wonder how it is that I can be working on every crafting profession at the same time, with no "mule" alts holding anything, and I'm having no issues with my inventory space at all.

Either I'm doing something wrong, or everyone who's complaining about inventory space is doing something wrong.

I'd really love some enlightenment on this.

I would love some too, you must be a freak of nature in the MMO space. Or you must not do anything other than sit at crafting tables, where you are not actually going OUTSIDE of the town and adventuring to gather materials or collect other loot. Otherwise, what you describe IS IMPOSSIBLE. There is absolutely no way you are working ON EVERY CRAFTING PROFESSION and are not having space issues.

No, you can do it. You just deconstruct what you find, and sell the materials. You still level the craft, and you store nothing. And for provisioning you only loot the specific ingredients you know you need for the 2-3 recipes you are using in that tier to level it, and you ignore everything else. You can't powerlevel it that way, and you can't make stuff other than every now and then when you have the mats, but because leveling a craft in this game is about deconstruction, it's feasible to level it by deconstructing loot and selling everything it produces to vendors, so it takes up no space at all.

Now, most crafters don't like that, because they like to have "stock in trade" in terms of mats to make things. But the game seems to be designed around storing almost nothing, and working with materials in real time. At least when you are leveling it.

I don't like it, either, but it seems to be the design.

derpmonster

Sproeikoei wrote: »

derpmonster wrote: »

Sproeikoei wrote: »

You feel like there is a reason to state that Guild Wars 2 is a f2p game (which it's not) and that this is a subscription based game. But it happens to be that it's completely irrelevant so let's leave that out for the moment.

Now, how I read your statement is that you would prefer a Guild Wars 2 clone over the Elder Scrolls' immersion, which practically (as all of us TES players have experienced) the full inventory is a part of: becoming over-encumbered, having to make priorities and choices over what you might need more over something else.

This allows you think and stay active in the game and not make it a boring grind of looting everything you can just for the sake of looting. (Like you would do on your first Morrowind experience) . Where you would pick up every plate and Kwama egg and what not, and not know that the amount of weight they bare generally doesn't weigh (pun not intended) up to the worth you can get out of it in gold.

It almost seems like, with lack of a better word, you're spoiled by the convenience of the options Guild Wars 2 offers.
But do bear in mind. This IS an Elder Scrolls game and it's intent was NOT to copy other games, only to become the pseudo-best of all the other MMOs out there. But to give Elder Scrolls fans the Online TES experience they've so longed for.

Do you actually believe that dealing with a full inventory every 20-30 minutes leads to immersion?

If so that is just mind blowing. To me that makes the game tedious, which is the exact opposite of fun.

And I'm proud to say that I'm spoiled by the convenience that I'm shown in GW2. Anet has shown that arbitrary restrictions in an mmo don't need to exist because reasons ???.

It is completely dependent on your own play-style whether you have to go to town every 20-30 minutes or not.
Again (this has been stated multiple times within this thread alone already) it's about making choices: If you loot every barrel you come across then yes your inventory will be full, if you want to keep everything you find then yes your bank will be full.

If you don't grasp the simple fact that when you make the choice of looting everything and that the consequence is that your inventory is going to be full, then maybe you just want a game where you can rush through to the endgame content and that's it. And to be really fair, crafting has already been made quite easy on us.

This is Elder Scrolls and an MMO and for some reason the MMO elitists tend to get really mad at minor things and the Elder Scrolls segment seems to dislike some stuff but accept it.
I personally believe there is a certain maturity in accepting that which is provided to you and learning to deal with or work around it is one of the many aspects of gaming.

I guess you miss the entire point of a feedback forum then. We're not here to argue that stuff should stay the same. We're here to give feedback on what we'd like to see improved.

I believe there is a certain maturity in realizing that not everyone thinks the same way you do and that your opinion is not absolute.

There is no reason why there can not be better inventory management in this game. None. Back when Everquest and the like were the big mmos this sort of thing might have been okay but recent games (namel GW2) have shown us that we can do better.

"If you don't grasp the simple fact that when you make the choice of looting everything and that the consequence is that your inventory is going to be full, then maybe you just want a game where you can rush through to the endgame content and that's it. And to be really fair, crafting has already been made quite easy on us. "

Just read that through and realize it makes absolutely no sense. That's what your entire argument comes down to.

If I take my time looting everything in sight then I'm clearly not interested in rushing through things, yes? I like to think of that as something we call "playing the game". Which coincidentally is the point.

I'm fairly certain that Zenimax did not intend for people to have to 'make a choice' and that things are the way they are in this game because they are simply an immature mmo developer. There is more evidence for this theory than there is against it.

Brennan

derpmonster wrote: »

[I'm fairly certain that Zenimax did not intend for people to have to 'make a choice' and that things are the way they are in this game because they are simply an immature mmo developer. There is more evidence for this theory than there is against it.

In this you would be incorrect. Zenimax limited inventory slots to discourage but not prohibit people from mastering all crafts on a single character. They've said as much.

Personally, I'm fine with a smaller inventory and having the choice to master all crafts on one character. It beats being told that I can only master three on a single character.

derpmonster

Brennan wrote: »

derpmonster wrote: »

[I'm fairly certain that Zenimax did not intend for people to have to 'make a choice' and that things are the way they are in this game because they are simply an immature mmo developer. There is more evidence for this theory than there is against it.

In this you would be incorrect. Zenimax limited inventory slots to discourage but not prohibit people from mastering all crafts on a single character. They've said as much.

Personally, I'm fine with a smaller inventory and having the choice to master all crafts on one character. It beats being told that I can only master three on a single character.

Well if they actually made that choice then they failed. What they ended up doing was making managing your inventory tedious.

I don't have a problem with the amount of inventory space we have. What I have a problem with is the horrible UI that we have to manage it. I guess I should make that clear.

Then again most aspects of the UI suffer from terrible design so that isn't specifically a complaint against the inventory.

knightblaster

derpmonster wrote: »

I'm fairly certain that Zenimax did not intend for people to have to 'make a choice' and that things are the way they are in this game because they are simply an immature mmo developer. There is more evidence for this theory than there is against it.

No, it's quite intentional for you to make a choice.

http://tamrieljournal.com/tesoelite-crafting-qa-summary-paul-sage/

Paul Sage, about a month ago:

Inventory / Bank Space

Q: Since crafting materials take up space in our inventory…Would it be possible to implement crafting bags for strictly crafting materials?

A: Our inventory space and bank space provides a much needed gold sink. Something useful to spend your money on. Currently, that friction is useful to the game, and removing that isn’t something I think we want to pursue at this time.



Q: Items for crafting take a lot of place. Will you implement an interface dedicated to crafting items like GW2 or Neverwinter ?

A: Bank space and inventory space are friction elements for the economy. It is unlikely we will have a dedicate crafting inventory in the near future. Choice is important.



Q: I love the fact that you can leave items in your bank and still use them for crafting. My concern is, I guess I horde to much of everything since I’m crafting everything, and run out of space really really quick. Is there away to fix this, or should i simple just keep selling my mats and make low level items to makes space?

A: I would say you are going to have to make some choices about what you keep and what you don’t. Bank space / inventory space is another limiter to being able to work on all crafting skills at once. It isn’t impossible, it is just harder if that is what you choose to do. There’s also a TV show about your “problem.”