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Streak and convert spamming is a huge issue plaguing this game
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Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »
Countering streak spam requires multiple sacrifices - not only 1 ability slot and/or set but also additional sustain (Which is not needed against other classes). Well, of course there is generic counter to any ranged build, including magsorc - sitting in tower, running around the rock etc...
.
Why? Do you have to do parkour style move while breaking Streak compared to any other CC in the game?
You've made that comment several times now and i still can't figure it out.
In any hard battle, 1v1, or big ones, you'll always be CCed on cooldown.
So again, where exactly did the Streak touch you that you have so much animosity towards it.
Hell, you should be happy your working against streak, since you know you won't be hit with any followup.
If you used this skill anytime at all, you'd know it's sub optimal CC in 1v1 scenario.
All non-overload sorcs time streak with meteor and frags and curse explosion all landing in same GCD or 2 GCD (dependent on luck, lag or skill). Also when streak is used offensively you can land in front of target.. of course it is easier said that then done with all the position de-sync issues but streak stun radius is pretty big, 5-6m - more then real to land in front of target and still stun it.
If burst coming in same or consequent GCD is not a follow-up, then what is?
My issue that fighting in open you need not only to break free, but also to gap close (or sprint) afterwards, while sorc will have free GCD to use conversion. All of this makes resource exchange 100% beneficial to magsorc. Of course it is rock-paper-scissor situation... if build has ranged pressure then he don't need to gap close... if build has ranged interrupt, dark deal/conversion will grant a free stun. If there is LOS... but hey, if there is LOS no meta build has any chances to die at all if there will be no serious mistakes or lag/de-sync.
So you all can tell me that I'm complaining that ranged mobile build have advantage over full melee build in open space... yes, but don't tell me that sorc is weak or inferior to meta stam specs like many magsorcs claim. Fact that 6k WD stam builds can burst magsorc in 2 GCD, sorc can burst them in 2 GCD as well or simply play defensively with resource drain strategy. If sorc (or any other build/class) manage to kill me in 2-3 GCD, I will only applaud and whisper "good job, nice damage". Unfortunately it is extremely rare case, vast majority of players rely on some cheeze, glitchy stun or resource drain etc..
Only thing that you said that is right is that magSorc actually try and land their Streak as near to the target as possible, to give them selves the biggest chance to actually land that followup Frag. So that alone is killing your claim you need extra res to deal with it.
So tell me what's worse, your melee stam having to make one step and be in range, or my ranged build having to end my combo in front of my targets face, turn, re target and then followup.
Also, ppl that think magSorc have great burst are just funny at this point.
I'm destroying ppl left and right on my stamSorc and magPlar, that my magSorcs can only dream of killing while still have enough to survive them. Btw my magSorcs are AR50 and AR30ish, so by far most exp on magSorc.
Man, I think streak can be used defensively, offensively and as resource drain (last case is discussed in this thread).
Sorc will land in front of you only on offensive streak. But here I agree with you in terms that it is perfect time for counter-attack and probably the only time window where you can deal with magsorc without outsustaining him - i.e. see meteor - gulp cc-pot immediately and use your burst on sorc who just jumped to stun you. Burst inside burst. Works perfectly on stamDK because battle roar gives an edge in such situation.
Overall it sounds from magsorcs like if there is situation where streak is countered, this immediately makes streak ability inferior to fossilize/cloak whatever. No! Streak is one of the best abilities in the game right now, if not the best. Anyway, as I said I'll make my own magsorc and see how it plays without necessity to carry whole pack of crutches on your backbar (i.e. shuffle, mist etc).
@MartiniDaniels
Coming from other classes sorcs are squishy but the sustain isn’t bad. Squishy classes makes it harder to heavy for resources because you only gain resources if you finish the heavy.
I primarily play BGs with mine but think wood elf is the way to go, I’d give it a go. Dark conversion costs 2k stam for 3k mag plus mag every second, there’s also no mag sustain passive for sorcs but there is a stamina one. It’s actually more efficient to use dark conversion with stamina regen than trying to get your mag regen up.
Hard casting frags in BGs works okay, just doesn’t work 1v1 because you’ll get stunned if the cast time is interrupted. For burst it works well, with overload up and light attack weaving: curse - hard cast frags - wrath and repeat fishing for a frag proc. You also can’t bar swop to cancel the hard cast which is annoying so you need to be careful about it.
I’m still looking at my bar layout but: matriarch - curse - wrath - frags - Inner Light/Sorc max mag ability - overload. Matriarch - radiating regen - dark conversion - shield - streak - temporal guard. I’m thinking of dropping resto for S&B and adding the resource return psijiic ability.
Definitely hits like a truck when you get a frag proc after wrath in the combo. I went Chudan - Necro - BTB because there’s bar crunch as a sorc. First thing to go was the spammable, outside a burst combo most spammables are overrated, I’m usually either bursting, kiting or healing.Edited by Iskiab on March 5, 2020 7:19PMLooking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten1 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »
Countering streak spam requires multiple sacrifices - not only 1 ability slot and/or set but also additional sustain (Which is not needed against other classes). Well, of course there is generic counter to any ranged build, including magsorc - sitting in tower, running around the rock etc...
.
Why? Do you have to do parkour style move while breaking Streak compared to any other CC in the game?
You've made that comment several times now and i still can't figure it out.
In any hard battle, 1v1, or big ones, you'll always be CCed on cooldown.
So again, where exactly did the Streak touch you that you have so much animosity towards it.
Hell, you should be happy your working against streak, since you know you won't be hit with any followup.
If you used this skill anytime at all, you'd know it's sub optimal CC in 1v1 scenario.
All non-overload sorcs time streak with meteor and frags and curse explosion all landing in same GCD or 2 GCD (dependent on luck, lag or skill). Also when streak is used offensively you can land in front of target.. of course it is easier said that then done with all the position de-sync issues but streak stun radius is pretty big, 5-6m - more then real to land in front of target and still stun it.
If burst coming in same or consequent GCD is not a follow-up, then what is?
My issue that fighting in open you need not only to break free, but also to gap close (or sprint) afterwards, while sorc will have free GCD to use conversion. All of this makes resource exchange 100% beneficial to magsorc. Of course it is rock-paper-scissor situation... if build has ranged pressure then he don't need to gap close... if build has ranged interrupt, dark deal/conversion will grant a free stun. If there is LOS... but hey, if there is LOS no meta build has any chances to die at all if there will be no serious mistakes or lag/de-sync.
So you all can tell me that I'm complaining that ranged mobile build have advantage over full melee build in open space... yes, but don't tell me that sorc is weak or inferior to meta stam specs like many magsorcs claim. Fact that 6k WD stam builds can burst magsorc in 2 GCD, sorc can burst them in 2 GCD as well or simply play defensively with resource drain strategy. If sorc (or any other build/class) manage to kill me in 2-3 GCD, I will only applaud and whisper "good job, nice damage". Unfortunately it is extremely rare case, vast majority of players rely on some cheeze, glitchy stun or resource drain etc..
Only thing that you said that is right is that magSorc actually try and land their Streak as near to the target as possible, to give them selves the biggest chance to actually land that followup Frag. So that alone is killing your claim you need extra res to deal with it.
So tell me what's worse, your melee stam having to make one step and be in range, or my ranged build having to end my combo in front of my targets face, turn, re target and then followup.
Also, ppl that think magSorc have great burst are just funny at this point.
I'm destroying ppl left and right on my stamSorc and magPlar, that my magSorcs can only dream of killing while still have enough to survive them. Btw my magSorcs are AR50 and AR30ish, so by far most exp on magSorc.
Man, I think streak can be used defensively, offensively and as resource drain (last case is discussed in this thread).
Sorc will land in front of you only on offensive streak. But here I agree with you in terms that it is perfect time for counter-attack and probably the only time window where you can deal with magsorc without outsustaining him - i.e. see meteor - gulp cc-pot immediately and use your burst on sorc who just jumped to stun you. Burst inside burst. Works perfectly on stamDK because battle roar gives an edge in such situation.
Overall it sounds from magsorcs like if there is situation where streak is countered, this immediately makes streak ability inferior to fossilize/cloak whatever. No! Streak is one of the best abilities in the game right now, if not the best. Anyway, as I said I'll make my own magsorc and see how it plays without necessity to carry whole pack of crutches on your backbar (i.e. shuffle, mist etc).
@MartiniDaniels
Coming from other classes sorcs are squishy but the sustain isn’t bad. Squishy classes makes it harder to heavy for resources because you only gain resources if you finish the heavy.
I primarily play BGs with mine but think wood elf is the way to go, I’d give it a go. Dark conversion costs 2k stam for 3k mag plus mag every second, there’s also no mag sustain passive for sorcs but there is a stamina one. It’s actually more efficient to use dark conversion with stamina regen than trying to get your mag regen up.
Hard casting frags in BGs works okay, just doesn’t work 1v1 because you’ll get stunned if the cast time is interrupted. For burst it works well, with overload up and light attack weaving: curse - hard cast frags - wrath and repeat fishing for a frag proc. You also can’t bar swop to cancel the hard cast which is annoying so you need to be careful about it.
I’m still looking at my bar layout but: matriarch - curse - wrath - frags - Inner Light/Sorc max mag ability - overload. Matriarch - radiating regen - dark conversion - shield - streak - temporal guard. I’m thinking of dropping resto for S&B and adding the resource return psijiic ability.
Definitely hits like a truck when you get a frag proc after wrath in the combo. I went Chudan - Necro - BTB because there’s bar crunch as a sorc. First thing to go was the spammable, outside a burst combo most spammables are overrated, I’m usually either bursting, kiting or healing.
Thanks for the insight and I really like bosmers for PVP, but from my experience even on stamina bosmer is good with bow backbar and more or less ok with BRP DW but becomes suboptimal with S&B because you roll-dodge less with the latter.
For magsorc case if we take altmer, he has ~150 equivalent stamina recovery in 5 light armor, while 258 SD and 2k magicka vs 258 recovery and 2k stam. For dunmer it's same amount of stamina and 258 SD comparable to 258 recovery, but 1875 magicka on top. So both altmer and dunmer provide ~1.5-2 set bonuses more then bosmer and I think it is noticeable given how magsorc is dependent on maxmagicka.
Your setup with chudan-necro-btb looks solid though and bosmer allows you not to run shackle+BS... but you can achieve the same with serpent sign for example?0 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Streak is the last good ability Sorcerer has left. Everything else was overnerfed.
And in pvp, Streak is not even the issue. Most Sorcerers use Ball of Lightning, which is truly overperforming.
Purges you of roots and slows and grants you immortality against all ranged magicka builds by absorbing projectiles.
Be glad of those few using streak still. At least you can kill those.
Also; if Zenimax wants to force Sorcerers into melee range with this, then that is absolutely fine. Sorcerer is not suited to be in melee range, yet that is where Streak is usable offensively. So it is good they have something for this situation.
And oh gods! It is but a stun. Break free from it and be done with it. The Sorcerer needs a moment to turn around after streaking through you to follow up with crystal shard or something else. By that time any decent play has already broken free. And curse and meteor alone have never killed anyone on their own.
Posts like this... wow. You should really try playing other classes sometime. Almost all sorc skills are better than other class skills across the board.
Being ‘unkillable’ is only the baseline for being a good ability in sorc’s minds.
You do understand that most class abilities are significantly stronger numerically across the board for every other class right.
No they aren’t even close. Magsorc has:
- the best ranged spammable
- the best ranged execute
- the best magicka sustain ability
- the highest single target heal in the game
- the best escape tool in the game
- the best stun in the game
Isn’t that enough? Seriously, try playing other mag classes. The downside of sorc is squishiness.
Um What?
- the best ranged spammable - Sorcs dont have a ranged spammable specific to their class.
- the best ranged execute - Maybe true before the nerf in PVP. Mages wrath is only used in large groups. It isnt worth a spot solo (or in a PVE damage rotation). The skill has been gutted pretty hard.
- the best magicka sustain ability - Maybe, but it takes a bar slot for sustain. Sorc is the only class in PVP where I specifically need to slot a skill for this purpose. It also has a cast time and can be interrupted.
- the highest single target heal in the game - Even if we agreed that twilight is the best heal in the game (I dont agree), it takes two slots and pets can die. In terms of practical self healing, sorcs are pretty low on this list.
- the best escape tool in the game - Cloak is the best escape tool in the game.
- the best stun in the game - DKs have the best stun in the game, but I will give streak a strong second place.
Though first 4 points are arguable, but last 2... you may say that cloak is comparable if you were fearing everybody in 6 meter radius while leaving cloak. Also cloak has direct hard-counters, while streak don't have ones, only soft counters. Give me a pot/poison to prevent opponent's streaking for 15 seconds plz.
Fossilize...
1. Fossilize is not better then streak - as active fossilize user I may say that immobilization happens at 50% of cases at best. At worst it might happen only on 3rd or 4th cast -> after changes to roll-dodge, RAT, shuffle, everybody has crazy uptime of immobilization immunity. And if opponent doesn't have root immunity tool it is same issue as "jabs being OP". If you are melee be sure to have major evasion. If you are in PVP be sure to have RAT/shuffle/mist - something from that. If you plan to fight with magsorcs be sure to slot gap closer which is generally not needed against all other classes and specs.
2. Fossilize is hard countered by cc-immunity pots. I.e. if your enemy is cc-immune you can't even cast it to replenish stamina and proc minor brutality. Issue is reinforced because cc-immunity from pot is not displayed on your opponent... Many players opens with cc-pot and try to burst you down during first 10 seconds and fossilize is absolutely useless in those 10 seconds. I understand know why so many stamDK stopped using it, and with new sets I plan to drop it as well.
3. Fossilize is hard counter to magsorc, so I understand why you place it as best. But against other classes it is not so good. Decent ability yes, but nothing more then that.
And now surprise - streak have both escape (and gap closer) and stun in 1 morph of 1 class... when cloak and fossilize are separate abilities of different classes. And cloak and fossilize are hard countered by pots... actually by the same pot if it is magicka pot
So again - don't need to nerf streak, all sorc power and class identity is contained in this ability now... but don't tell that fossilize and cloak are better then streak. No, not even comparable.
Out of curiosity, how is the first point arguable? They dont have a class spammable.
As to cloak and fossilze, they are certainly comparable. It's absurd to suggest they arent. One is a stun, the other is an escape tool at their core, and both have auxiliary functions as well.
Fossilize, especially small scale is an insanely powerful tool. I love that your skill greys out if on immunity. It makes it so easy to track when someone is off cooldown. As for cloak, what percent of players actually slot a detect pot. It's not terribly high. Cloak is your best way to consistently reset a fight that is not going your way. If I need to GTFO out on my sorc, I dont spam streak, I pop an invis pot. Haha
Also, I certainly have the most time on my sorc, but second and third place are DK and NB. Last campaign I played every class both magic and stam (12 toons) to get on the board in the 30 day. I don't have the class bias that you perceive. I want a functional and healthy game, and I get how these skills function. Detect pots are hard counters to cloak, gap closers are hard counters to streak when used to escape. I think the best counter to a Streak is DK chains.
I will not deny that streak is the most powerful skill a sorc has at this point in PVP (I would not have said that 6 months ago). Every class can say the same thing about something. I certainly don't believe its the most powerful skill in the game. The problem is that so many other skills a sorc has a very one dimensional and pets take two bar slots. If streak gets parsed into multiple skills, sorcs are really going to struggle.
One thing I am very confident about saying after playing every spec for a few hours last campaign is that mag sorcs have the most cramped bars of any class. I also think they generally have to play a glassier build than a lot of other classes if they actually want to kill good players. Can you build to streak around for days? Sure, but if that sorc is killing you, you are bad. It's the equivalent of being killed by a troll tank. Most sorcs with enough damage to kill you might get 5-6 consecutive streaks. And if they do that, and get caught, they are toast because they are out of resources.
Let's also not forget that streak might be the worst skill in the game when heavy lag sets in. Half the time, you appear to streak and dont actually move.
Frags are not spammable of course, but sometimes they work as one dependent on random proc. 35% is not 8%. 35% has a fair chance to proc more often then once in few GCD. That's why I switched to S&B backbar on latest build despite I hate this back bar. Because you can block all frags instead of dodging them and receive much less damage and spent less resources. Given that all other ranged class "spammables" deal no damage and are slow and... just useless, sorc is the only viable ranged class in the game. Because of frags, because of streak. Every class can use eleweapon or force pulse. But only sorc can weave them with frags applying bewildering damage spikes to non-blocking target. NB bow proc is not comparable... I see NBs are just keeping it for damage reduction and using exclusively during burst and never as "sustained damage".
About crumbled bars... ok, for all melee specs (i.e. all viable specs with exception of magsorc) major evasion is default requirement, i.e. elude or quick cloak = must have. Escape tool+snare removal -> mist = must have. Gap closer to fight sorcs = toppling charge/leap... must have. Stun.. ok, I'm lucky I have it in TC+off-balance on stamplar and on leap on stamDK other stamspecs had it from dizzy. Other mag classes then sorc need to use separate stun, with exception of magplar.
So just from the start to have any chances to not die from high dps meta classes in first few seconds i need to have this 3 abilities -elude or quick cloak, Mist, toppling charge/leap. Sorc doesn't direly need major evasion because streak immediately puts out of jabs/shalks... gap closer in streak, stun in streak, escape tool in streak. Crumbled bars, huh? Yes, matriarch takes 2 slots, but it heals like 2 abilities+pet body block+irritating zaps.
Now you can say that META 6k WD builds don't have gap closers, and don't have escape tools. Yeah, because they all run around the tower or tree. They never fight in open and always sprint from LOS to LOS.
NB bow proc is absolutely the most comparable skill to frags in this game, and of course, neither are spammable. A spammable cant have a condition precedent to fire. Frags is easier to use because it doesnt require a weave, but a bow proc is more deadly. The frag will on average fire more often for most people, but it is RNG dependent. Yeah you can proc a few in a row, but you can also cast 10 skills without one firing.
For a good nightblade, every 5th cast is a bow proc, and on a sorc, every 4th FRONT BAR skill is frag. Assuming you bar swap frequently and actually use and weave back bar skills, You can actually fire a bow proc more often on average than a frag. If I could, i would trade frags for merciless in an instant. Just because two skills arent identical, doesnt mean you cant compare them for the purposes of discussion.
Merciless is very good ability since U24, and better then frags as overall pack. But as PVE magblade with hundreds of hours with merciless - it is not spammable in any way. Merciless for NB is like streak for magsorc - class defining ability overloaded with features, but that awfully long travel time and distinctive sound makes it extremely unreliable in PVP if target is not stunned when bow proc lands.0 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »
Countering streak spam requires multiple sacrifices - not only 1 ability slot and/or set but also additional sustain (Which is not needed against other classes). Well, of course there is generic counter to any ranged build, including magsorc - sitting in tower, running around the rock etc...
.
Why? Do you have to do parkour style move while breaking Streak compared to any other CC in the game?
You've made that comment several times now and i still can't figure it out.
In any hard battle, 1v1, or big ones, you'll always be CCed on cooldown.
So again, where exactly did the Streak touch you that you have so much animosity towards it.
Hell, you should be happy your working against streak, since you know you won't be hit with any followup.
If you used this skill anytime at all, you'd know it's sub optimal CC in 1v1 scenario.
All non-overload sorcs time streak with meteor and frags and curse explosion all landing in same GCD or 2 GCD (dependent on luck, lag or skill). Also when streak is used offensively you can land in front of target.. of course it is easier said that then done with all the position de-sync issues but streak stun radius is pretty big, 5-6m - more then real to land in front of target and still stun it.
If burst coming in same or consequent GCD is not a follow-up, then what is?
My issue that fighting in open you need not only to break free, but also to gap close (or sprint) afterwards, while sorc will have free GCD to use conversion. All of this makes resource exchange 100% beneficial to magsorc. Of course it is rock-paper-scissor situation... if build has ranged pressure then he don't need to gap close... if build has ranged interrupt, dark deal/conversion will grant a free stun. If there is LOS... but hey, if there is LOS no meta build has any chances to die at all if there will be no serious mistakes or lag/de-sync.
So you all can tell me that I'm complaining that ranged mobile build have advantage over full melee build in open space... yes, but don't tell me that sorc is weak or inferior to meta stam specs like many magsorcs claim. Fact that 6k WD stam builds can burst magsorc in 2 GCD, sorc can burst them in 2 GCD as well or simply play defensively with resource drain strategy. If sorc (or any other build/class) manage to kill me in 2-3 GCD, I will only applaud and whisper "good job, nice damage". Unfortunately it is extremely rare case, vast majority of players rely on some cheeze, glitchy stun or resource drain etc..
Only thing that you said that is right is that magSorc actually try and land their Streak as near to the target as possible, to give them selves the biggest chance to actually land that followup Frag. So that alone is killing your claim you need extra res to deal with it.
So tell me what's worse, your melee stam having to make one step and be in range, or my ranged build having to end my combo in front of my targets face, turn, re target and then followup.
Also, ppl that think magSorc have great burst are just funny at this point.
I'm destroying ppl left and right on my stamSorc and magPlar, that my magSorcs can only dream of killing while still have enough to survive them. Btw my magSorcs are AR50 and AR30ish, so by far most exp on magSorc.
Man, I think streak can be used defensively, offensively and as resource drain (last case is discussed in this thread).
Sorc will land in front of you only on offensive streak. But here I agree with you in terms that it is perfect time for counter-attack and probably the only time window where you can deal with magsorc without outsustaining him - i.e. see meteor - gulp cc-pot immediately and use your burst on sorc who just jumped to stun you. Burst inside burst. Works perfectly on stamDK because battle roar gives an edge in such situation.
Overall it sounds from magsorcs like if there is situation where streak is countered, this immediately makes streak ability inferior to fossilize/cloak whatever. No! Streak is one of the best abilities in the game right now, if not the best. Anyway, as I said I'll make my own magsorc and see how it plays without necessity to carry whole pack of crutches on your backbar (i.e. shuffle, mist etc).
@MartiniDaniels
Coming from other classes sorcs are squishy but the sustain isn’t bad. Squishy classes makes it harder to heavy for resources because you only gain resources if you finish the heavy.
I primarily play BGs with mine but think wood elf is the way to go, I’d give it a go. Dark conversion costs 2k stam for 3k mag plus mag every second, there’s also no mag sustain passive for sorcs but there is a stamina one. It’s actually more efficient to use dark conversion with stamina regen than trying to get your mag regen up.
Hard casting frags in BGs works okay, just doesn’t work 1v1 because you’ll get stunned if the cast time is interrupted. For burst it works well, with overload up and light attack weaving: curse - hard cast frags - wrath and repeat fishing for a frag proc. You also can’t bar swop to cancel the hard cast which is annoying so you need to be careful about it.
I’m still looking at my bar layout but: matriarch - curse - wrath - frags - Inner Light/Sorc max mag ability - overload. Matriarch - radiating regen - dark conversion - shield - streak - temporal guard. I’m thinking of dropping resto for S&B and adding the resource return psijiic ability.
Definitely hits like a truck when you get a frag proc after wrath in the combo. I went Chudan - Necro - BTB because there’s bar crunch as a sorc. First thing to go was the spammable, outside a burst combo most spammables are overrated, I’m usually either bursting, kiting or healing.
Thanks for the insight and I really like bosmers for PVP, but from my experience even on stamina bosmer is good with bow backbar and more or less ok with BRP DW but becomes suboptimal with S&B because you roll-dodge less with the latter.
For magsorc case if we take altmer, he has ~150 equivalent stamina recovery in 5 light armor, while 258 SD and 2k magicka vs 258 recovery and 2k stam. For dunmer it's same amount of stamina and 258 SD comparable to 258 recovery, but 1875 magicka on top. So both altmer and dunmer provide ~1.5-2 set bonuses more then bosmer and I think it is noticeable given how magsorc is dependent on maxmagicka.
Your setup with chudan-necro-btb looks solid though and bosmer allows you not to run shackle+BS... but you can achieve the same with serpent sign for example?
That’s a good point, I think you’re right, Altmer plus serpent would probably be better. I’m a wood elf because I was originally going to go stamsorc. The Altmer off-resource passive is awesome when I tried it on other characters, should be on a sorc too.
The only thing to take into account when figuring it out is sorc has a 20% stam regen passive. You’d have to do the math.Edited by Iskiab on March 5, 2020 8:31PMLooking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Play a templar and no Sorcerer can harm you. Play a Dragonknight and no Sorcerer can harm you.
Other classes excel at countering the entire Sorcerer strategy. Purge, Scales etc.
You are delusional if you think that Sorcerer is above other classes. It was at one point and that was 3 years ago.
Do yourself a favour and switch classes. If you actually think that you aren’t playing a sorc well, and playing other classes will make you a better player.
Sorc’s main issue is it’s filled with players who’ve only played a sorc and have no perspective. No one in their right mind who’s played multiple classes thinks sorcs are weak.
Depends entirely on the perspective.
On pc-eu you can essentially self diagnose as brain damaged if you start solo pvping as non stamcro or stamden at this point.
Nobody in their right mind would disagree with sorcs being weak or average compared to the current top picks.
The question is wether you´re comparing it to the optimum or if you look out for something that has it even worse (cough magblade cough magcro).
Then perspective also changes with content played. Someone who´s only zerging and Xv1ing ppl to their hearts content is probably going to have the time of their lives rn on sorc - telling everyone how good the class is compared to others. The same as someone being on the receiving end of this. Sorc is hands down the best zergsurf and Xv1 class in the game at the moment.
A sorc not zerging or Xv1ing ppl is probably going to have a very different opinion on how potent the class is.Edited by Derra on March 5, 2020 9:40PM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 503 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Play a templar and no Sorcerer can harm you. Play a Dragonknight and no Sorcerer can harm you.
Other classes excel at countering the entire Sorcerer strategy. Purge, Scales etc.
You are delusional if you think that Sorcerer is above other classes. It was at one point and that was 3 years ago.
Do yourself a favour and switch classes. If you actually think that you aren’t playing a sorc well, and playing other classes will make you a better player.
Sorc’s main issue is it’s filled with players who’ve only played a sorc and have no perspective. No one in their right mind who’s played multiple classes thinks sorcs are weak.
Depends entirely on the perspective.
On pc-eu you can essentially self diagnose as brain damaged if you start solo pvping as non stamcro or stamden at this point.
Nobody in their right mind would disagree with sorcs being weak or average compared to the current top picks.
The question is wether you´re comparing it to the optimum or if you look out for something that has it even worse (cough magblade cough magcro).
Then perspective also changes with content played. Someone who´s only zerging and Xv1ing ppl to their hearts content is probably going to have the time of their lives rn on sorc - telling everyone how good the class is compared to others. The same as someone being on the receiving end of this. Sorc is hands down the best zergsurf and Xv1 class in the game at the moment.
A sorc not zerging or Xv1ing ppl is probably going to have a very different opinion on how potent the class is.
Yes, I agree the tanky stam are generally stronger 1v1 classes. I’ve taken out some stamnecros 1v1 before but agree a stamwarden 1v1 isn’t going to go well. Stamnecros from what I’ve seen do better against other stam classes moreso than mag classes, especially meta builds because they don’t slot a gap closer.
I just don’t like hyperbole when people say good classes are the worst. In general less people play the weaker classes so they get less attention, the gap between say a werewolf and a stamwarden is larger than between magsorc and stamnecro. As a magsorc the gap is small enough you can outplay most people on the best classes, but against an experienced opponent yes it will be rough.
Edited by Iskiab on March 5, 2020 10:19PMLooking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten0 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭Players constantly spam streak and convert, abilities that are in themselves overpowered for the cost. Streak is a huge aoe, hard CC, does decent damage, is a gap closer that requires no target, meaning it works as both an offensive and defensive ability and is used by stamina (the same reason petrify had a huge cost increase), the current 50% increase in cost is not enough, the ability should have a cost increase of 100% every time it is cast out of cooldown and the base cost increased by 1k. Likewise on Convert, the Ability is too often spammed, remove the channel from this ability as well as the instant resource return and make it like siphoning/leeching strikes, giving the full resources at the end or throughout then time of the buff. This would help improve sorc sustain in PVE and stop the spamming of a poorly balanced ability.
INB4 “SoRc NeRf ThReAd”, most people are bandwagon meta hopping petsorc players anyway, as its virtually unseen out of a zerg when its not the best solo class.
You are talking about a class that us lacking poorly in defense and susain from its passives. Unless passive are rework to make sorcs have more tankness, you are just saying the class should not survive and just die. Same thing said about dark deal/conversion, without passive the help with sustain, and dakr deal is changed or taken out, most sorcs would heavy attack like 50% of time when fighting or build too much into sustain and loss all dmg. I never have to rely on pots as much as I do when playing stamsorc in coperson to when I play stamdk or stamden.0 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭MashmalloMan wrote: »MashmalloMan wrote: »3.8k magicka lowered to 3k magicka.
33% stacking cost increased to 80%.
4s stacking cost duration increased to 6s.
So live:
Mag Sorc Breton 5 Light. (78% cost)
3780 mag * .78 = 2949 mag
2949 * 1.33 = 3931
3931 * 1.33 = 5228
Spamming streak 3x gives you 45m distance, enough time to Dark Conversion 2-3 times, allowing the 4s cost increase to stop and gaining back all the magicka spent.
Dark Conversion = 2161 * 0.94(class passive) * 0.98 (1 med) = 1991 stam
Converting 3982 stam into 7.2k magicka + magicka regen over 4-6 seconds is roughly 10-13k magicka restored.
5228 + 3931 + 2949 = 12,108 magicka.
So in this scenario, the mag sorc can continuously do this loop with the same amount of magicka pretty easily. With a decreased cost and increased stacking bonus, this loop changes.
Mag Sorc Breton 5 Light. (78% cost)
3000 mag * 0.78 = 2340 mag (609 less than live)
2340 mag * 1.8 = 4212 mag (281 more than live)
4212 mag * 1.8 = 7582 mag (2354 more than live)
7582 + 4212 + 2340 = 14,134 magicka. (2k more than live)
Lets not forget the +6 second stacking cool down I suggested here, forces the Sorc to wait or else they will have to spend 13,648 more magicka on a 4th cast which would take 3 dark conversions just to recover from alone, a 4th cast of streak would of been 6969 magicka without the change. This amount of stamina drain is very difficult to sustain and leaves them vulnerable.
I like the thinking, however at the moment many stamsorcs use streak to avoid execute. It shouldn’t be such a powerful magica ability that is so accessible to stamina, compare this to Petrify which has no aoe or gap close Is 4050 base cost and the removal of it from the average stam dks toolkit is much healthier gameplay that when they all ran it. From the maths, I can see that 100% cost increase is too much, however moved to 50-60% cost increase. However a high base cost is needed, unless the gap close removed.
Be cause stamdks are the only class that have 28m gap gloser cheap ultimate with passive ulti regen. Might as well do petrify same treatment, while it is not an aoe styn, it does stun and immoblized a single target making the target double break from 1 skill or only break free and sat and be at the mercy of stacking dmg from other class and weapon passives. Same thing could be say about shimmering shield with 100% uptime on major heroism and netch as well... and this goes to other classes as well.0 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭universal_wrath wrote: »Players constantly spam streak and convert, abilities that are in themselves overpowered for the cost. Streak is a huge aoe, hard CC, does decent damage, is a gap closer that requires no target, meaning it works as both an offensive and defensive ability and is used by stamina (the same reason petrify had a huge cost increase), the current 50% increase in cost is not enough, the ability should have a cost increase of 100% every time it is cast out of cooldown and the base cost increased by 1k. Likewise on Convert, the Ability is too often spammed, remove the channel from this ability as well as the instant resource return and make it like siphoning/leeching strikes, giving the full resources at the end or throughout then time of the buff. This would help improve sorc sustain in PVE and stop the spamming of a poorly balanced ability.
INB4 “SoRc NeRf ThReAd”, most people are bandwagon meta hopping petsorc players anyway, as its virtually unseen out of a zerg when its not the best solo class.
You are talking about a class that us lacking poorly in defense and susain from its passives. Unless passive are rework to make sorcs have more tankness, you are just saying the class should not survive and just die. Same thing said about dark deal/conversion, without passive the help with sustain, and dakr deal is changed or taken out, most sorcs would heavy attack like 50% of time when fighting or build too much into sustain and loss all dmg. I never have to rely on pots as much as I do when playing stamsorc in coperson to when I play stamdk or stamden.
Magsorc and some stamsorc are using streak as main stun, so if they didni't stun target for whatever reason, their main stun skill would cost around 10k, this is absurd, because they have penalty forissing the stun and longer able to stun him due to high cost. Main issue it that it is abused by mag sorcs, stamsorcs are victim. Also, I alway said that they should make if you streak to a traget, it should not have a penaly, penaly only if no target hit.0 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭ketsparrowhawk wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »ketsparrowhawk wrote: »Just needs to be made blockable again.
No it not need until they make other unblockabke stuns blockable...
Not all stuns need to function the same way. Sorc has a very well-rounded toolkit. An unblockable stun in the form of streak is a bit much when added on top of everything else they have access to. If DK had the range, mobility, and burst potential of a Sorc then sure.. make fossilize blockable too.
I would say that warden haa a better well rounded toolkit and much stronger than sorcerer.
Unfortunalt due to class design, dk was made to be melee hence why most of skilks are melee to medium range, but you vmcan still play range, all yiu have to do is ditch you class skills like all sorcs and enjoy the weapons and guild skill. Fyi, both morphs of stone fist are 28m stuns, one with heals and other with stacking dmg.0 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭Joinovikova wrote: »I agree about streak being too good. The ability to choose to engage or disengage is about the best advantage you could ask for. The amount of sorcs who streak away from me when they realize they're going to die, and never come back, is really annoying. Or the sorcs who just prolong a fight they can't win by constantly streaking away, and streaking back when I don't feel like chasing them and trying to re-engage, only to streak away again when they're about to die. It's a major crutch for mediocre players who would otherwise end up very dead very fast.
I think the unblockable stun is the major issue here. The issue with abilities like streak comes down to them doing too many things too effectively, which leaves other classes whose abilities do one single thing for a high cost feeling like their toolkit sucks. If you're a DK and you slot fossilize, it costs more, only stuns and roots one person, and doesn't get you anywhere. It's not a bad ability, but it's extremely expensive and is really only a CC, not a CC and an escape/gap closer.
All this QQ sesion is not about Sorct is OP but only I winning mele combat with sorc and then he succesuflly run, becuase I do not use Accelerate or morfs and do not slot any charge gapl close ability....
It's easy to tell who has never played melee when they suggest slotting a gap closer to counter streak. It's not the gap itself that's the issue, it's the unblockable stun that comes along with the gap, which requires a cc break and then closing the gap. Kiting is one thing, being guaranteed to stun with the ability you use to kite puts it in an entirely different category. It's the resources that are required to be used after a sorc streaks through you that causes the problem.
Gap closers are expensive abilities to use too. A break free followed by a gap closer is roughly 7.5k stam in medium. The suggestion that a streak costing 3k mag is easily countered by using two abilities that cost 7k+ stam is hilarious.
Streak stun was adjusted so that it only stun in a cone area. So if you are gap closing, I assume you are behind the sorcs back, you will not be stuned. Swhile escaping, sorcs need to streak through you to stun you, otherwise you are free to persiut without any free of stuns.0 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭
People have the option to play range, espacially all magicka specs of all classes. Not play range or refusing to ditch melee weapons like potenta s&b and dw BRP because they are crazy op is you own playstyle. Much like like tell spine spammer not to snipe and go melee. Every build has its own pro and cons, if you play melee you should use some sorc of gap closer to catch up to range spec, like wise range should use some sort of tool to stay away from melee specs because they will die in melee range. All class magicka or stamina jave some sort of range spamma le ti use if they want to range spec. Only classes that do not have melee spammables are magcro and magsorc forcing them to be range in case of sorc or aoe bomber in case of necro.0 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »I find a good nerf sorc thread as amusing as the next person, but can we please wait until they are at least meta before making them?
Also the flip-flopping cycle of nerf and buff has got to have the devs confused. The community didn't like sorcs spamming CCs and burst damage from 41 meters away, so it was proposed that a Streak stun ought to be unblockable to match other classes unshockable CCs and it would encourage a sorc to play aggressive and in close quarters. Now that's too much, so instead I guess we want the sorcs fighting from 41 meters away again and picking the Ball of Lighting morph which encourages the very cowardly style that we supposedly dislike?
Or they could just make rune cage usefull stun once again but in close quaters like up to 15 meters and make is less potent then it was at prime time. Then they could tweak streak. The main problem with streak atm is that it's AoE unblockable , undodgable stun and gap closer , escapability tool and some bit of damage all at the same time plus it got cheaper to spam. Overloading abilities with too many goodies makes them problematic to balance. Same happened to old rune cage.
That's not a problem. That is an interesting and impactful ability that should be the standard ZOS aspires to. People act like getting stunned is the end of the world. If you are halfway competent at this game it is not a big deal. Just CC break.
When ZOS mollycoddles players and dumbs-down the game by nerfing "overloaded" abilities, that's is precisely how we got to this boring meta where nobody dies and stuck with classes that have no identity.
"Interresting and impactfull"... If You want to replace word "overloaded" with those two then yeah but that brings not much to discussion. People are not acting like getting stunned is the end of the world. How You get stunned is important. "just CC break" is literally worst argument You could use. Sorc is a class with 3 or 4 hard or decently hitting abilities that will be on target or on their way to the target before stun is even applied or will hit almost at the same moment stun is applied. Having extremly reliable stun that ignores block dodge and even obstacles , that at the same time is doing way way more then that , is slightly too much sometimes.
We are getting "this boring meta" also because those overloaded abilities. Those few overloaded abilities per class literally sucks the options away from giving other abilities unique functions and features. Streak is so many features at once. Damage , mobility used offensively and defensively , unblockable and undodgable stun and it's AoE , not even mentioning it can stun through obstacles and after last changes to the cost penatly , area of stun and how it's applied , it became way easier to use that ability. You could literally make 3 unique abilities out of that. Instead it's all packed in 1 ability and skills like rune cage are being called useless at the same time. This boring meta where nobody dies is also caused because of said overloaded (sorry interresting and impactfull) abilities because it's way to easy to get multiple things at once by braindead button mashing.Edited by Juhasow on March 11, 2020 12:23PM2 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Play a templar and no Sorcerer can harm you. Play a Dragonknight and no Sorcerer can harm you.
Other classes excel at countering the entire Sorcerer strategy. Purge, Scales etc.
You are delusional if you think that Sorcerer is above other classes. It was at one point and that was 3 years ago.
Do yourself a favour and switch classes. If you actually think that you aren’t playing a sorc well, and playing other classes will make you a better player.
Sorc’s main issue is it’s filled with players who’ve only played a sorc and have no perspective. No one in their right mind who’s played multiple classes thinks sorcs are weak.
Depends entirely on the perspective.
On pc-eu you can essentially self diagnose as brain damaged if you start solo pvping as non stamcro or stamden at this point.
Nobody in their right mind would disagree with sorcs being weak or average compared to the current top picks.
The question is wether you´re comparing it to the optimum or if you look out for something that has it even worse (cough magblade cough magcro).
Then perspective also changes with content played. Someone who´s only zerging and Xv1ing ppl to their hearts content is probably going to have the time of their lives rn on sorc - telling everyone how good the class is compared to others. The same as someone being on the receiving end of this. Sorc is hands down the best zergsurf and Xv1 class in the game at the moment.
A sorc not zerging or Xv1ing ppl is probably going to have a very different opinion on how potent the class is.
I also would add CP and no CP PvP as 2 different perspectives of sorc effectiveness in Your comment.Edited by Juhasow on March 11, 2020 12:27PM0 -
Karm1cOne✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »I find a good nerf sorc thread as amusing as the next person, but can we please wait until they are at least meta before making them?
Also the flip-flopping cycle of nerf and buff has got to have the devs confused. The community didn't like sorcs spamming CCs and burst damage from 41 meters away, so it was proposed that a Streak stun ought to be unblockable to match other classes unshockable CCs and it would encourage a sorc to play aggressive and in close quarters. Now that's too much, so instead I guess we want the sorcs fighting from 41 meters away again and picking the Ball of Lighting morph which encourages the very cowardly style that we supposedly dislike?
Or they could just make rune cage usefull stun once again but in close quaters like up to 15 meters and make is less potent then it was at prime time. Then they could tweak streak. The main problem with streak atm is that it's AoE unblockable , undodgable stun and gap closer , escapability tool and some bit of damage all at the same time plus it got cheaper to spam. Overloading abilities with too many goodies makes them problematic to balance. Same happened to old rune cage.
That's not a problem. That is an interesting and impactful ability that should be the standard ZOS aspires to. People act like getting stunned is the end of the world. If you are halfway competent at this game it is not a big deal. Just CC break.
When ZOS mollycoddles players and dumbs-down the game by nerfing "overloaded" abilities, that's is precisely how we got to this boring meta where nobody dies and stuck with classes that have no identity.
"Interresting and impactfull"... If You want to replace word "overloaded" with those two then yeah but that brings not much to discussion. People are not acting like getting stunned is the end of the world. How You get stunned is important. "just CC break" is literally worst argument You could use. Sorc is a class with 3 or 4 hard or decently hitting abilities that will be on target or on their way to the target before stun is even applied or will hit almost at the same moment stun is applied. Having extremly reliable stun that ignores block dodge and even obstacles , that at the same time is doing way way more then that , is slightly too much sometimes.
We are getting "this boring meta" also because those overloaded abilities. Those few overloaded abilities per class literally sucks the options away from giving other abilities unique functions and features. Streak is so many features at once. Damage , mobility used offensively and defensively , unblockable and undodgable stun and it's AoE , not even mentioning it can stun through obstacles and after last changes to the cost penatly , area of stun and how it's applied , it became way easier to use that ability. You could literally make 3 unique abilities out of that. Instead it's all packed in 1 ability and skills like rune cage are being called useless at the same time. This boring meta where nobody dies is also caused because of said overloaded (sorry interresting and impactfull) abilities because it's way to easy to get multiple things at once by braindead button mashing.
Except sorcs already have problems with bar space due to skills that do only one thing. Or take 2 slots.1 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »I find a good nerf sorc thread as amusing as the next person, but can we please wait until they are at least meta before making them?
Also the flip-flopping cycle of nerf and buff has got to have the devs confused. The community didn't like sorcs spamming CCs and burst damage from 41 meters away, so it was proposed that a Streak stun ought to be unblockable to match other classes unshockable CCs and it would encourage a sorc to play aggressive and in close quarters. Now that's too much, so instead I guess we want the sorcs fighting from 41 meters away again and picking the Ball of Lighting morph which encourages the very cowardly style that we supposedly dislike?
Or they could just make rune cage usefull stun once again but in close quaters like up to 15 meters and make is less potent then it was at prime time. Then they could tweak streak. The main problem with streak atm is that it's AoE unblockable , undodgable stun and gap closer , escapability tool and some bit of damage all at the same time plus it got cheaper to spam. Overloading abilities with too many goodies makes them problematic to balance. Same happened to old rune cage.
That's not a problem. That is an interesting and impactful ability that should be the standard ZOS aspires to. People act like getting stunned is the end of the world. If you are halfway competent at this game it is not a big deal. Just CC break.
When ZOS mollycoddles players and dumbs-down the game by nerfing "overloaded" abilities, that's is precisely how we got to this boring meta where nobody dies and stuck with classes that have no identity.
"Interresting and impactfull"... If You want to replace word "overloaded" with those two then yeah but that brings not much to discussion. People are not acting like getting stunned is the end of the world. How You get stunned is important. "just CC break" is literally worst argument You could use. Sorc is a class with 3 or 4 hard or decently hitting abilities that will be on target or on their way to the target before stun is even applied or will hit almost at the same moment stun is applied. Having extremly reliable stun that ignores block dodge and even obstacles , that at the same time is doing way way more then that , is slightly too much sometimes.
We are getting "this boring meta" also because those overloaded abilities. Those few overloaded abilities per class literally sucks the options away from giving other abilities unique functions and features. Streak is so many features at once. Damage , mobility used offensively and defensively , unblockable and undodgable stun and it's AoE , not even mentioning it can stun through obstacles and after last changes to the cost penatly , area of stun and how it's applied , it became way easier to use that ability. You could literally make 3 unique abilities out of that. Instead it's all packed in 1 ability and skills like rune cage are being called useless at the same time. This boring meta where nobody dies is also caused because of said overloaded (sorry interresting and impactfull) abilities because it's way to easy to get multiple things at once by braindead button mashing.
Except sorcs already have problems with bar space due to skills that do only one thing. Or take 2 slots.
Maybe that's because some abilities are doing too much things at once so other abilities cannot have additional features so You need to slot bunch of them which causes bar space problems and You end up with 1 ability that does 5-6 things and 5 abilities that have 1 thing each ? Maybe some abilities are doing 1 thing only because other abilities have 5-6 features built into them ?Edited by Juhasow on March 11, 2020 3:47PM0 -
Fawn4287✭✭✭✭✭
✭Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »I find a good nerf sorc thread as amusing as the next person, but can we please wait until they are at least meta before making them?
Also the flip-flopping cycle of nerf and buff has got to have the devs confused. The community didn't like sorcs spamming CCs and burst damage from 41 meters away, so it was proposed that a Streak stun ought to be unblockable to match other classes unshockable CCs and it would encourage a sorc to play aggressive and in close quarters. Now that's too much, so instead I guess we want the sorcs fighting from 41 meters away again and picking the Ball of Lighting morph which encourages the very cowardly style that we supposedly dislike?
Or they could just make rune cage usefull stun once again but in close quaters like up to 15 meters and make is less potent then it was at prime time. Then they could tweak streak. The main problem with streak atm is that it's AoE unblockable , undodgable stun and gap closer , escapability tool and some bit of damage all at the same time plus it got cheaper to spam. Overloading abilities with too many goodies makes them problematic to balance. Same happened to old rune cage.
That's not a problem. That is an interesting and impactful ability that should be the standard ZOS aspires to. People act like getting stunned is the end of the world. If you are halfway competent at this game it is not a big deal. Just CC break.
When ZOS mollycoddles players and dumbs-down the game by nerfing "overloaded" abilities, that's is precisely how we got to this boring meta where nobody dies and stuck with classes that have no identity.
"Interresting and impactfull"... If You want to replace word "overloaded" with those two then yeah but that brings not much to discussion. People are not acting like getting stunned is the end of the world. How You get stunned is important. "just CC break" is literally worst argument You could use. Sorc is a class with 3 or 4 hard or decently hitting abilities that will be on target or on their way to the target before stun is even applied or will hit almost at the same moment stun is applied. Having extremly reliable stun that ignores block dodge and even obstacles , that at the same time is doing way way more then that , is slightly too much sometimes.
We are getting "this boring meta" also because those overloaded abilities. Those few overloaded abilities per class literally sucks the options away from giving other abilities unique functions and features. Streak is so many features at once. Damage , mobility used offensively and defensively , unblockable and undodgable stun and it's AoE , not even mentioning it can stun through obstacles and after last changes to the cost penatly , area of stun and how it's applied , it became way easier to use that ability. You could literally make 3 unique abilities out of that. Instead it's all packed in 1 ability and skills like rune cage are being called useless at the same time. This boring meta where nobody dies is also caused because of said overloaded (sorry interresting and impactfull) abilities because it's way to easy to get multiple things at once by braindead button mashing.
This dude actually tried to say ZOS dumbing down the game whilst defending a skill that is the biggest AOE hard CCs that teleports you whilst single target dots are the weakest they’ve ever been. The class already has enough ward stack ability to make it burst proof and then when you can put it anywhere near execute it pops 15k worth of wards, uses either the best burst heal in the game (matriach) or rapid regen. Then when it really hits the fan pops resto ult or sword and board ult. All whilst being able to turn and drop curse, Endless, met, streak, frag combo in less then 3 seconds.0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »I find a good nerf sorc thread as amusing as the next person, but can we please wait until they are at least meta before making them?
Also the flip-flopping cycle of nerf and buff has got to have the devs confused. The community didn't like sorcs spamming CCs and burst damage from 41 meters away, so it was proposed that a Streak stun ought to be unblockable to match other classes unshockable CCs and it would encourage a sorc to play aggressive and in close quarters. Now that's too much, so instead I guess we want the sorcs fighting from 41 meters away again and picking the Ball of Lighting morph which encourages the very cowardly style that we supposedly dislike?
Or they could just make rune cage usefull stun once again but in close quaters like up to 15 meters and make is less potent then it was at prime time. Then they could tweak streak. The main problem with streak atm is that it's AoE unblockable , undodgable stun and gap closer , escapability tool and some bit of damage all at the same time plus it got cheaper to spam. Overloading abilities with too many goodies makes them problematic to balance. Same happened to old rune cage.
That's not a problem. That is an interesting and impactful ability that should be the standard ZOS aspires to. People act like getting stunned is the end of the world. If you are halfway competent at this game it is not a big deal. Just CC break.
When ZOS mollycoddles players and dumbs-down the game by nerfing "overloaded" abilities, that's is precisely how we got to this boring meta where nobody dies and stuck with classes that have no identity.
"Interresting and impactfull"... If You want to replace word "overloaded" with those two then yeah but that brings not much to discussion. People are not acting like getting stunned is the end of the world. How You get stunned is important. "just CC break" is literally worst argument You could use. Sorc is a class with 3 or 4 hard or decently hitting abilities that will be on target or on their way to the target before stun is even applied or will hit almost at the same moment stun is applied. Having extremly reliable stun that ignores block dodge and even obstacles , that at the same time is doing way way more then that , is slightly too much sometimes.
We are getting "this boring meta" also because those overloaded abilities. Those few overloaded abilities per class literally sucks the options away from giving other abilities unique functions and features. Streak is so many features at once. Damage , mobility used offensively and defensively , unblockable and undodgable stun and it's AoE , not even mentioning it can stun through obstacles and after last changes to the cost penatly , area of stun and how it's applied , it became way easier to use that ability. You could literally make 3 unique abilities out of that. Instead it's all packed in 1 ability and skills like rune cage are being called useless at the same time. This boring meta where nobody dies is also caused because of said overloaded (sorry interresting and impactfull) abilities because it's way to easy to get multiple things at once by braindead button mashing.
Except sorcs already have problems with bar space due to skills that do only one thing. Or take 2 slots.
Maybe that's because some abilities are doing too much things at once so other abilities cannot have additional features so You need to slot bunch of them which causes bar space problems and You end up with 1 ability that does 5-6 things and 5 abilities that have 1 thing each ? Maybe some abilities are doing 1 thing only because other abilities have 5-6 features built into them ?
Nope, because Streak got the unblockable CC last, while the other skills, like Frags, have lost their additional effects a long time ago. Streak being a CC is a direct response to the barspace problem sorcs have.0 -
NordSwordnBoard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭This dude actually tried to say ZOS dumbing down the game whilst defending a skill that is the biggest AOE hard CCs that teleports you whilst single target dots are the weakest they’ve ever been. The class already has enough ward stack ability to make it burst proof and then when you can put it anywhere near execute it pops 15k worth of wards, uses either the best burst heal in the game (matriach) or rapid regen. Then when it really hits the fan pops resto ult or sword and board ult. All whilst being able to turn and drop curse, Endless, met, streak, frag combo in less then 3 seconds.
This lady actually tried to say you can use a defensive ultimate (resto or SnB ult) and offensive ultimate (met) at the same time. Or as part of some rebound combo? Then blame sorc for using meteor, resto ult, and SnB when those are available to everybody.
I think you're mad at the tank meta, and taking it out on sorc skills that currently synergize with or counter that meta. Does it anger you more if a sorc survives using snb ult, as opposed to another class? Why?Fear is the Mindkiller0 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »I find a good nerf sorc thread as amusing as the next person, but can we please wait until they are at least meta before making them?
Also the flip-flopping cycle of nerf and buff has got to have the devs confused. The community didn't like sorcs spamming CCs and burst damage from 41 meters away, so it was proposed that a Streak stun ought to be unblockable to match other classes unshockable CCs and it would encourage a sorc to play aggressive and in close quarters. Now that's too much, so instead I guess we want the sorcs fighting from 41 meters away again and picking the Ball of Lighting morph which encourages the very cowardly style that we supposedly dislike?
Or they could just make rune cage usefull stun once again but in close quaters like up to 15 meters and make is less potent then it was at prime time. Then they could tweak streak. The main problem with streak atm is that it's AoE unblockable , undodgable stun and gap closer , escapability tool and some bit of damage all at the same time plus it got cheaper to spam. Overloading abilities with too many goodies makes them problematic to balance. Same happened to old rune cage.
That's not a problem. That is an interesting and impactful ability that should be the standard ZOS aspires to. People act like getting stunned is the end of the world. If you are halfway competent at this game it is not a big deal. Just CC break.
When ZOS mollycoddles players and dumbs-down the game by nerfing "overloaded" abilities, that's is precisely how we got to this boring meta where nobody dies and stuck with classes that have no identity.
"Interresting and impactfull"... If You want to replace word "overloaded" with those two then yeah but that brings not much to discussion. People are not acting like getting stunned is the end of the world. How You get stunned is important. "just CC break" is literally worst argument You could use. Sorc is a class with 3 or 4 hard or decently hitting abilities that will be on target or on their way to the target before stun is even applied or will hit almost at the same moment stun is applied. Having extremly reliable stun that ignores block dodge and even obstacles , that at the same time is doing way way more then that , is slightly too much sometimes.
We are getting "this boring meta" also because those overloaded abilities. Those few overloaded abilities per class literally sucks the options away from giving other abilities unique functions and features. Streak is so many features at once. Damage , mobility used offensively and defensively , unblockable and undodgable stun and it's AoE , not even mentioning it can stun through obstacles and after last changes to the cost penatly , area of stun and how it's applied , it became way easier to use that ability. You could literally make 3 unique abilities out of that. Instead it's all packed in 1 ability and skills like rune cage are being called useless at the same time. This boring meta where nobody dies is also caused because of said overloaded (sorry interresting and impactfull) abilities because it's way to easy to get multiple things at once by braindead button mashing.
This dude actually tried to say ZOS dumbing down the game whilst defending a skill that is the biggest AOE hard CCs that teleports you whilst single target dots are the weakest they’ve ever been. The class already has enough ward stack ability to make it burst proof and then when you can put it anywhere near execute it pops 15k worth of wards, uses either the best burst heal in the game (matriach) or rapid regen. Then when it really hits the fan pops resto ult or sword and board ult. All whilst being able to turn and drop curse, Endless, met, streak, frag combo in less then 3 seconds.
So, I said this before and I will say it again. Mag sorc is not tye only class that can stack shields, Dk and templars have shields as well. If you don't like it, then every class can slot and use bone shields, lighy armor shield, and resto shield and now you can stack 3 shields like magsorcs. You don't see any other class shields stacking because their means of defense are better than shields stacking. Some stam classes also have access to 3 shields like Dk and templar with ignious shields, and sun shields, bone shields and s&b shields. Same thing as mag specs, they don't invest in shield stacking because it is not as effective as it might looks. Also, while I don't play magsroc, having a burst heal tide to an easy to kill pet is very unreliable, especailly in outnumbered situations. Also, complaining about s&b and resto ultimate is not valid as it is avialbe to all class and specs to use. You can also blame zos for not giving sorcs a defensive ulti and passive and forcing into this playstyle. You never see a magsorc play melee because there are no melee skills for them to use and they are not as tulky as other class, even nightblade have more dmg mitigation than sorcerer.Edited by universal_wrath on March 11, 2020 6:06PM1 -
ku5h✭✭✭✭✭
✭Then when it really hits the fan pops resto ult or sword and board ult. All whilst being able to turn and drop curse, Endless, met, streak, frag combo in less then 3 seconds.
Yea, lets just start saying total nonsense coz we hate them sorcs so much.
You can't do that in 6 sec, let alone less then 3. Get a grip with reality dude.
3 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
✭Joinovikova wrote: »
What other unblockable stuns cause considerable damage in a roughly 20x6 meter AOE and are also gap closers and escape tools? My NB has an unblockable stun, but that's literally all it does: stun. (And it stuns fewer people, in an area less than 1/4 the size of Streak.) Don't act like it's not completely overturned vs other stuns.0 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
✭Joinovikova wrote: »
All the other unblockable stuns are melee range and or single target. Not a huge aoe range gap closer/escape tool that can stun entire groups while doing damage. Not even close to balanced.
They also don't ramp up their costs, fail on uneven terrain and force a 180 upon you which is impossible on console.
If we're balancing, then put those on the other CCs. You'll quit in a day.
I would gladly take streak for turn evil/fear for all the utility and the cc it provides.
I can see the utility, but you don't want the CC if you have Turn/Fear. Mind the 180!
Streak stuns people behind you too. And does damage.Edited by Langeston on March 11, 2020 10:42PM1 -
Fawn4287✭✭✭✭✭
✭NordSwordnBoard wrote: »This dude actually tried to say ZOS dumbing down the game whilst defending a skill that is the biggest AOE hard CCs that teleports you whilst single target dots are the weakest they’ve ever been. The class already has enough ward stack ability to make it burst proof and then when you can put it anywhere near execute it pops 15k worth of wards, uses either the best burst heal in the game (matriach) or rapid regen. Then when it really hits the fan pops resto ult or sword and board ult. All whilst being able to turn and drop curse, Endless, met, streak, frag combo in less then 3 seconds.
This lady actually tried to say you can use a defensive ultimate (resto or SnB ult) and offensive ultimate (met) at the same time. Or as part of some rebound combo? Then blame sorc for using meteor, resto ult, and SnB when those are available to everybody.
I think you're mad at the tank meta, and taking it out on sorc skills that currently synergize with or counter that meta. Does it anger you more if a sorc survives using snb ult, as opposed to another class? Why?
No Im saying its dumb that the class that can overheal to nearly double its health has a skill that offers a heal with monstrous instant regen and another thats a hard CC, decent damage non aimed gap closer0 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭NordSwordnBoard wrote: »This dude actually tried to say ZOS dumbing down the game whilst defending a skill that is the biggest AOE hard CCs that teleports you whilst single target dots are the weakest they’ve ever been. The class already has enough ward stack ability to make it burst proof and then when you can put it anywhere near execute it pops 15k worth of wards, uses either the best burst heal in the game (matriach) or rapid regen. Then when it really hits the fan pops resto ult or sword and board ult. All whilst being able to turn and drop curse, Endless, met, streak, frag combo in less then 3 seconds.
This lady actually tried to say you can use a defensive ultimate (resto or SnB ult) and offensive ultimate (met) at the same time. Or as part of some rebound combo? Then blame sorc for using meteor, resto ult, and SnB when those are available to everybody.
I think you're mad at the tank meta, and taking it out on sorc skills that currently synergize with or counter that meta. Does it anger you more if a sorc survives using snb ult, as opposed to another class? Why?
No Im saying its dumb that the class that can overheal to nearly double its health has a skill that offers a heal with monstrous instant regen and another thats a hard CC, decent damage non aimed gap closer
It can’t really heal double it’s health. It’s definitely the strongest burst heal, but 7k in no-CP is more accurate. It’s stronger in the CP campaign with keep bonus’ etc... but will never be more than their health unless they’re in a funky 15k health build. Highest you can probably get it is about a 24k crit.Edited by Iskiab on March 12, 2020 12:30AMLooking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Joinovikova wrote: »
All the other unblockable stuns are melee range and or single target. Not a huge aoe range gap closer/escape tool that can stun entire groups while doing damage. Not even close to balanced.
They also don't ramp up their costs, fail on uneven terrain and force a 180 upon you which is impossible on console.
If we're balancing, then put those on the other CCs. You'll quit in a day.
I would gladly take streak for turn evil/fear for all the utility and the cc it provides.
I can see the utility, but you don't want the CC if you have Turn/Fear. Mind the 180!
Streak stuns people behind you too. And does damage.
But you need to turn around to hit the stunned people behind you. Impossible to do in time on console, before they break free and block your frag.
Damage isn't a deciding factor. It's a weak AoE. Neat, but not worth risking whiffing the stun.1 -
oxygen_thief✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I don't use this op overheal skill when I play alone I prefer resto regen to get one free slot but it's pretty unreliable for self-healing if somebody is around so I forced to run bird in battlegrounds for example. sorcs glorious op combo curse-meteor-streak-frag can kill only pve nightblades necros wardens dks and templars wont notice it.NordSwordnBoard wrote: »This dude actually tried to say ZOS dumbing down the game whilst defending a skill that is the biggest AOE hard CCs that teleports you whilst single target dots are the weakest they’ve ever been. The class already has enough ward stack ability to make it burst proof and then when you can put it anywhere near execute it pops 15k worth of wards, uses either the best burst heal in the game (matriach) or rapid regen. Then when it really hits the fan pops resto ult or sword and board ult. All whilst being able to turn and drop curse, Endless, met, streak, frag combo in less then 3 seconds.
This lady actually tried to say you can use a defensive ultimate (resto or SnB ult) and offensive ultimate (met) at the same time. Or as part of some rebound combo? Then blame sorc for using meteor, resto ult, and SnB when those are available to everybody.
I think you're mad at the tank meta, and taking it out on sorc skills that currently synergize with or counter that meta. Does it anger you more if a sorc survives using snb ult, as opposed to another class? Why?
No Im saying its dumb that the class that can overheal to nearly double its health has a skill that offers a heal with monstrous instant regen and another thats a hard CC, decent damage non aimed gap closer
1 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
✭Joinovikova wrote: »
All the other unblockable stuns are melee range and or single target. Not a huge aoe range gap closer/escape tool that can stun entire groups while doing damage. Not even close to balanced.
They also don't ramp up their costs, fail on uneven terrain and force a 180 upon you which is impossible on console.
If we're balancing, then put those on the other CCs. You'll quit in a day.
I would gladly take streak for turn evil/fear for all the utility and the cc it provides.
I can see the utility, but you don't want the CC if you have Turn/Fear. Mind the 180!
Streak stuns people behind you too. And does damage.
But you need to turn around to hit the stunned people behind you. Impossible to do in time on console, before they break free and block your frag.
Damage isn't a deciding factor. It's a weak AoE. Neat, but not worth risking whiffing the stun.
Well I don't know what it's like on console, I play on PC — and if I ever get Streaked, by the time I break free I already have curse on me and depending on lag, possibly Wrath. The Sorc is then spamming Force Pulse waiting for Frags to proc & if I try to cloak they streak into me again, pulling me out — they only need to keep me out of cloak for 2 more seconds before Curse Procs, Frags likely already has, and then once that's cast, Wrath, all the while spamming Force Pulse.
Literally every somewhat competent Sorc does this exact combo — if it wasn't easy & effective, that wouldn't be the case.
Oh, and Streak does more damage than Swallow Soul, Ricochet Skull, Screaming Cliff Racer, Force Pulse, and various other abilities that actually require you to aim. So basically this "weak AOE" does the damage of a spammable to everyone in their path, (and behind them) every time they use it. What's another unblockable AOE/gap closer/escape tools that can do that? And why must sorcs always pretend that everything in their toolkit is weaker than it actually is?Edited by Langeston on March 12, 2020 7:38AM1 -
Tolino✭✭✭✭✭Literally every somewhat competent Sorc does this exact combo — if it wasn't easy & effective, that wouldn't be the case.
Oh, and Streak does more damage than Swallow Soul, Ricochet Skull, Screaming Cliff Racer, Force Pulse, and various other abilities that actually require you to aim. So basically this "weak AOE" does the damage of a spammable to everyone in their path, (and behind them) every time they use it. What's another unblockable AOE/gap closer/escape tools that can do that? And why must sorcs always pretend that everything in their toolkit is weaker than it actually is?
It is a good combo. But it is never a instakill against good player. Good players will dodge or block your frags after the stun. Especially dks, Templar, Warden and Necro are to tanky for this!
And Streak has 33% less dmg than Spammables.
Streak is a great Ability and Should be made blockable again.
But please don't spread such nonsense!!!Magsorc: Tôlino (Wardless)
Magden: Wa-Uller
Stamsorc: Tolino Sturmfalke2 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Joinovikova wrote: »
All the other unblockable stuns are melee range and or single target. Not a huge aoe range gap closer/escape tool that can stun entire groups while doing damage. Not even close to balanced.
They also don't ramp up their costs, fail on uneven terrain and force a 180 upon you which is impossible on console.
If we're balancing, then put those on the other CCs. You'll quit in a day.
I would gladly take streak for turn evil/fear for all the utility and the cc it provides.
I can see the utility, but you don't want the CC if you have Turn/Fear. Mind the 180!
Streak stuns people behind you too. And does damage.
But you need to turn around to hit the stunned people behind you. Impossible to do in time on console, before they break free and block your frag.
Damage isn't a deciding factor. It's a weak AoE. Neat, but not worth risking whiffing the stun.
Well I don't know what it's like on console, I play on PC — and if I ever get Streaked, by the time I break free I already have curse on me and depending on lag, possibly Wrath. The Sorc is then spamming Force Pulse waiting for Frags to proc & if I try to cloak they streak into me again, pulling me out — they only need to keep me out of cloak for 2 more seconds before Curse Procs, Frags likely already has, and then once that's cast, Wrath, all the while spamming Force Pulse.
Literally every somewhat competent Sorc does this exact combo — if it wasn't easy & effective, that wouldn't be the case.
Oh, and Streak does more damage than Swallow Soul, Ricochet Skull, Screaming Cliff Racer, Force Pulse, and various other abilities that actually require you to aim. So basically this "weak AOE" does the damage of a spammable to everyone in their path, (and behind them) every time they use it. What's another unblockable AOE/gap closer/escape tools that can do that? And why must sorcs always pretend that everything in their toolkit is weaker than it actually is?
No, Streak is definitely not dealing more damage than Force Pulse and so. WTH?
(o_0)
In your example, what if your opponent just uses a detection potion? If being knocked out of Cloak is the reason you die, then anyone can do that just fine. You could also use a shield, heal, roll out of cone or Shade to mitigate a follow-up hit, but I guess those are bugged, as is every single NB skill, right? Hell, I could probably easily kill you on DK with Talons. Any mag build with Elemental Ring. Any stam with Steel Tornado. You die because you get outplayed, not because of Streak.2