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Streak and convert spamming is a huge issue plaguing this game

Fawn4287
Fawn4287
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Players constantly spam streak and convert, abilities that are in themselves overpowered for the cost. Streak is a huge aoe, hard CC, does decent damage, is a gap closer that requires no target, meaning it works as both an offensive and defensive ability and is used by stamina (the same reason petrify had a huge cost increase), the current 50% increase in cost is not enough, the ability should have a cost increase of 100% every time it is cast out of cooldown and the base cost increased by 1k. Likewise on Convert, the Ability is too often spammed, remove the channel from this ability as well as the instant resource return and make it like siphoning/leeching strikes, giving the full resources at the end or throughout then time of the buff. This would help improve sorc sustain in PVE and stop the spamming of a poorly balanced ability.

INB4 “SoRc NeRf ThReAd”, most people are bandwagon meta hopping petsorc players anyway, as its virtually unseen out of a zerg when its not the best solo class.
  • WreckfulAbandon
    WreckfulAbandon
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    Streak has a 33% per cast penalty, not 50% :)
    PC NA

    All my comments are regarding PvP
  • Gilvoth
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    the only thing causes anger from streak is its stunn.
    just take away the stunn from streak and let them spam it.
    it doesnt need a cost increase nor a cost penalty. no
    Edited by Gilvoth on February 18, 2020 12:35AM
  • Fawn4287
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    Streak has a 33% per cast penalty, not 50% :)

    Wow ridiculous, no wonder I see people spam it 4 times in a row like its nothing
  • Fawn4287
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    Gilvoth wrote: »
    the only thing causes anger from streak is its stunn.
    just take away the stunn from streak and let them spam it.
    it doesnt need a cost increase nor a cost penalty. no

    The problem is with such a low cost and low cost to keep using, its too easy to just continually streak through someone and and loose line of sight every time they try to combo you, then streak as a bail, which happens to move faster than a build in medium with major expedition sprinting.
  • MashmalloMan
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    You come off a bit as nerf sorc happy instead of constructive. How does increasing the ability from 3.8k to 4.8k and increasing the stacking from 33% to 100% make any sense, your telling me the second cast should cost almost 10k to use? Are you joking me?

    If thats the case, we should start treating other major class defining abilities with the same brush like Cloak, Ritual, Shimmering Shield and Fossilize, but seriously, it's not fun for anyone. I would of said pre-nerf wings, but they're pretty underused now.

    Major issues with this ability only came up after they allowed it to stun through block. I understand why they did it, to push the identity of sorcs into a more in your face playstyle rather than the previous stun from 28m + away after the Rune Cage nerfs, but perhaps it was a little overtuned.

    The other issue you don't consider is this is a major staple ability for stam sorcs that can not afford to cast 5k magicka abilities, especially 10k on the off chance they press it twice. Thats insane.

    This ability is strong for magicka because the ability moves you without eating your stamina pool, allowing you to convert that saved stamina into magicka to cast more streaks nulifying the 2nd/3rd streak stacking cost. This isn't the case for stam sorcs at all that have much less cost reduction and no means of recovering magicka as quickly. Coming from someone who invests into magicka/regen on my stam sorc builds, streak runs you dry extremely quickly when you spam it.

    I would suggest lowering the base cost, but increasing the stacking penalty. This rewards players for using it in the off cd period, but more greatly punishes spamming the ability. This would help make streak more predictable as well, seeing as you know people would start using it less often in 1-3 bursts.

    So just throwing out some numbers here to show the effect this could have:

    3.8k magicka lowered to 3k magicka.
    33% stacking cost increased to 80%.
    4s stacking cost duration increased to 6s.
    PC Beta - 1900+ CP

    Stam Sorc Khajiit PvE/PVP Main || Stam Sorc Dark Elf PvP ||
    Stam Templar Dark Elf || Stam Warden Wood Elf || Stam DK Nord || Stam Necro Orc || Stam Blade Khajiit


    Mag Sorc High Elf || Mag Templar High Elf || Mag Warden Breton || Mag Necro Khajiit || Mag Blade Khajiit
  • MashmalloMan
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    3.8k magicka lowered to 3k magicka.
    33% stacking cost increased to 80%.
    4s stacking cost duration increased to 6s.

    So live:

    Mag Sorc Breton 5 Light. (78% cost)
    3780 mag * .78 = 2949 mag
    2949 * 1.33 = 3931
    3931 * 1.33 = 5228

    Spamming streak 3x gives you 45m distance, enough time to Dark Conversion 2-3 times, allowing the 4s cost increase to stop and gaining back all the magicka spent.

    Dark Conversion = 2161 * 0.94(class passive) * 0.98 (1 med) = 1991 stam

    Converting 3982 stam into 7.2k magicka + magicka regen over 4-6 seconds is roughly 10-13k magicka restored.

    5228 + 3931 + 2949 = 12,108 magicka.

    So in this scenario, the mag sorc can continuously do this loop with the same amount of magicka pretty easily. With a decreased cost and increased stacking bonus, this loop changes.

    Mag Sorc Breton 5 Light. (78% cost)
    3000 mag * 0.78 = 2340 mag (609 less than live)
    2340 mag * 1.8 = 4212 mag (281 more than live)
    4212 mag * 1.8 = 7582 mag (2354 more than live)

    7582 + 4212 + 2340 = 14,134 magicka. (2k more than live)

    Lets not forget the +6 second stacking cool down I suggested here, forces the Sorc to wait or else they will have to spend 13,648 more magicka on a 4th cast which would take 3 dark conversions just to recover from alone, a 4th cast of streak would of been 6969 magicka without the change. This amount of stamina drain is very difficult to sustain and leaves them vulnerable.
    PC Beta - 1900+ CP

    Stam Sorc Khajiit PvE/PVP Main || Stam Sorc Dark Elf PvP ||
    Stam Templar Dark Elf || Stam Warden Wood Elf || Stam DK Nord || Stam Necro Orc || Stam Blade Khajiit


    Mag Sorc High Elf || Mag Templar High Elf || Mag Warden Breton || Mag Necro Khajiit || Mag Blade Khajiit
  • dazee
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    What do you expect people to do? they completely gutted power surge. Dark Conversion is janky and hard to use well in a rotation due to the long cast time, its a skill I never even touched before I literally was forced to.

    Calling it OP is delusional.
    Playing your character the way your character should play is all that matters. Play as well as you can but never betray the character. Doing so would make playing an mmoRPG pointless.
  • Gilvoth
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    Fawn4287 wrote: »
    Gilvoth wrote: »
    the only thing causes anger from streak is its stunn.
    just take away the stunn from streak and let them spam it.
    it doesnt need a cost increase nor a cost penalty. no

    The problem is with such a low cost and low cost to keep using, its too easy to just continually streak through someone and and loose line of sight every time they try to combo you, then streak as a bail, which happens to move faster than a build in medium with major expedition sprinting.

    you do have a point there and i agree with you.
  • x48rph
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    While it's annoying to have a sorc keep streaking away, resetting and popping back in, it's not really a huge deal, at least to me. My only issue it the unblockable stun. Removing counter play to things is never really good. Even though I might miss a block 90% of the time, I should still at least have the option to try.
  • Fawn4287
    Fawn4287
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    3.8k magicka lowered to 3k magicka.
    33% stacking cost increased to 80%.
    4s stacking cost duration increased to 6s.

    So live:

    Mag Sorc Breton 5 Light. (78% cost)
    3780 mag * .78 = 2949 mag
    2949 * 1.33 = 3931
    3931 * 1.33 = 5228

    Spamming streak 3x gives you 45m distance, enough time to Dark Conversion 2-3 times, allowing the 4s cost increase to stop and gaining back all the magicka spent.

    Dark Conversion = 2161 * 0.94(class passive) * 0.98 (1 med) = 1991 stam

    Converting 3982 stam into 7.2k magicka + magicka regen over 4-6 seconds is roughly 10-13k magicka restored.

    5228 + 3931 + 2949 = 12,108 magicka.

    So in this scenario, the mag sorc can continuously do this loop with the same amount of magicka pretty easily. With a decreased cost and increased stacking bonus, this loop changes.

    Mag Sorc Breton 5 Light. (78% cost)
    3000 mag * 0.78 = 2340 mag (609 less than live)
    2340 mag * 1.8 = 4212 mag (281 more than live)
    4212 mag * 1.8 = 7582 mag (2354 more than live)

    7582 + 4212 + 2340 = 14,134 magicka. (2k more than live)

    Lets not forget the +6 second stacking cool down I suggested here, forces the Sorc to wait or else they will have to spend 13,648 more magicka on a 4th cast which would take 3 dark conversions just to recover from alone, a 4th cast of streak would of been 6969 magicka without the change. This amount of stamina drain is very difficult to sustain and leaves them vulnerable.

    I like the thinking, however at the moment many stamsorcs use streak to avoid execute. It shouldn’t be such a powerful magica ability that is so accessible to stamina, compare this to Petrify which has no aoe or gap close Is 4050 base cost and the removal of it from the average stam dks toolkit is much healthier gameplay that when they all ran it. From the maths, I can see that 100% cost increase is too much, however moved to 50-60% cost increase. However a high base cost is needed, unless the gap close removed.
  • Gilvoth
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    x48rph wrote: »
    While it's annoying to have a sorc keep streaking away, resetting and popping back in, it's not really a huge deal, at least to me.

    thats not what @Fawn4287 is talking about.

    Edited by Gilvoth on February 18, 2020 3:40AM
  • x48rph
    x48rph
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    Gilvoth wrote: »
    x48rph wrote: »
    While it's annoying to have a sorc keep streaking away, resetting and popping back in, it's not really a huge deal, at least to me. My only issue it the unblockable stun. Removing counter play to things is never really good. Even though I might miss a block 90% of the time, I should still at least have the option to try.

    thats not what @Fawn4287 is talking about.

    I know what he's talking about which is why I pointed out that I'm ok with streak as it is, which I thought implied that it includes the cost and being able to refill via conversion but in hindsight I should of probably wrote it out. I then pointed out my only issue with the ability because when one is discussing changes to an ability, the entire thing needs to be considered as a whole.

    tl;dr I'm fine with the cost and conversion refilling if they'd remove the unblockable stun.
  • Gilvoth
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    x48rph wrote: »
    Gilvoth wrote: »
    x48rph wrote: »
    While it's annoying to have a sorc keep streaking away, resetting and popping back in, it's not really a huge deal, at least to me. My only issue it the unblockable stun. Removing counter play to things is never really good. Even though I might miss a block 90% of the time, I should still at least have the option to try.

    thats not what @Fawn4287 is talking about.

    I know what he's talking about which is why I pointed out that I'm ok with streak as it is, which I thought implied that it includes the cost and being able to refill via conversion but in hindsight I should of probably wrote it out. I then pointed out my only issue with the ability because when one is discussing changes to an ability, the entire thing needs to be considered as a whole.

    tl;dr I'm fine with the cost and conversion refilling if they'd remove the unblockable stun.

    here is what he is saying ...
    Fawn4287 wrote: »
    Gilvoth wrote: »
    the only thing causes anger from streak is its stunn.
    just take away the stunn from streak and let them spam it.
    it doesnt need a cost increase nor a cost penalty. no

    The problem is with such a low cost and low cost to keep using, its too easy to just continually streak through someone and and loose line of sight every time they try to combo you..

    what hes reffering to is, during battles with sorc spaming streak, they keep you unable to attack them because they are keeping us locked down and unable to do damage to them due to streak spamming us.

    and hes right.
    thats an unfair advantage.

    the inability to keep damaging them as much as they are damaging us.

    Edited by Gilvoth on February 18, 2020 4:08AM
  • Iskiab
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    Fawn4287 wrote: »
    Players constantly spam streak and convert, abilities that are in themselves overpowered for the cost. Streak is a huge aoe, hard CC, does decent damage, is a gap closer that requires no target, meaning it works as both an offensive and defensive ability and is used by stamina (the same reason petrify had a huge cost increase), the current 50% increase in cost is not enough, the ability should have a cost increase of 100% every time it is cast out of cooldown and the base cost increased by 1k. Likewise on Convert, the Ability is too often spammed, remove the channel from this ability as well as the instant resource return and make it like siphoning/leeching strikes, giving the full resources at the end or throughout then time of the buff. This would help improve sorc sustain in PVE and stop the spamming of a poorly balanced ability.

    INB4 “SoRc NeRf ThReAd”, most people are bandwagon meta hopping petsorc players anyway, as its virtually unseen out of a zerg when its not the best solo class.

    Issue with making it instant cast is it’d have to lose its heal. Otherwise it’d be one of the cheapest spammable heals out there.

    I don’t know what you mean by saying magsorcs are rarely seen solo too. They’re one of the most common solo cyrodiil classes, and popular in BGs as well.
    Edited by Iskiab on February 18, 2020 3:57AM
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • Fawn4287
    Fawn4287
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    Iskiab wrote: »
    Fawn4287 wrote: »
    Players constantly spam streak and convert, abilities that are in themselves overpowered for the cost. Streak is a huge aoe, hard CC, does decent damage, is a gap closer that requires no target, meaning it works as both an offensive and defensive ability and is used by stamina (the same reason petrify had a huge cost increase), the current 50% increase in cost is not enough, the ability should have a cost increase of 100% every time it is cast out of cooldown and the base cost increased by 1k. Likewise on Convert, the Ability is too often spammed, remove the channel from this ability as well as the instant resource return and make it like siphoning/leeching strikes, giving the full resources at the end or throughout then time of the buff. This would help improve sorc sustain in PVE and stop the spamming of a poorly balanced ability.

    INB4 “SoRc NeRf ThReAd”, most people are bandwagon meta hopping petsorc players anyway, as its virtually unseen out of a zerg when its not the best solo class.

    Issue with making it instant cast is it’d have to lose its heal. Otherwise it’d be one of the cheapest spammable heals out there.

    I don’t know what you mean by saying magsorcs are rarely seen solo too. They’re one of the most common solo cyrodiil classes, and popular in BGs as well.

    Yea I mean the heal given as a HOT, like the stam is returned.

    I mean magsorcs were rarer than hens teeth prior to the shield changes, think of how many you saw between rune cage nerf update and the shield change update, and think how many run non petsorc
  • Fawn4287
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    x48rph wrote: »
    Gilvoth wrote: »
    x48rph wrote: »
    While it's annoying to have a sorc keep streaking away, resetting and popping back in, it's not really a huge deal, at least to me. My only issue it the unblockable stun. Removing counter play to things is never really good. Even though I might miss a block 90% of the time, I should still at least have the option to try.

    thats not what @Fawn4287 is talking about.

    I know what he's talking about which is why I pointed out that I'm ok with streak as it is, which I thought implied that it includes the cost and being able to refill via conversion but in hindsight I should of probably wrote it out. I then pointed out my only issue with the ability because when one is discussing changes to an ability, the entire thing needs to be considered as a whole.

    tl;dr I'm fine with the cost and conversion refilling if they'd remove the unblockable stun.

    I don’t even mind the unblockable stun as much, its the ability to gap close not to a target and continually streak Back and forth through someone, its a bit like the shade playstyle of a nightblade requires a good positioning of the shade to break away when you want, whilst streak offers a similar option, however with a fraction of the thinking, foresight or skill involved
  • Alienoutlaw
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    baseless calls for nerfs because player lack the skill to counter is what is truly killing this game
  • Fawn4287
    Fawn4287
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    baseless calls for nerfs because player lack the skill to counter is what is truly killing this game

    Sword and board backbar meta coupled with block cast burst heals, 1 in 3 players being healer/tank hybrids and server performance not handling the large scale zerg play?
  • LeHarrt91
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    But if you CC break free Streak you cannot be stunned for another 7s and with conversion you can use an interrupt (like Crushing Shock/ Flying Daggers/ Venom Arrow)
    PS NA 1800+ CP
    Have played all classes.
    Warden Main

  • Fawn4287
    Fawn4287
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    LeHarrt91 wrote: »
    But if you CC break free Streak you cannot be stunned for another 7s and with conversion you can use an interrupt (like Crushing Shock/ Flying Daggers/ Venom Arrow)

    Nice in theory but dual wield is used by spin to win wardens, and bow is used almost exclusively by gankers, snipe spammers and bow ult users, genreally all night blades. At the end of the day if nearly every mag build is using a sword and board, I think stick to it on stam.
  • notvenousdrake
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    Constant complaints about everything is a far bigger issue though.
  • coradaelu
    coradaelu
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    Unlimited_Power_Banner.jpg


    but yeah since the beginning we choose our fights with Streak i don't know why it's a big deal now?, Mag Sorc have already multiple nerf over the years and people still complain about something.
  • Fawn4287
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    Constant complaints about everything is a far bigger issue though.

    Introducing constantly overpowered sets to sell content means something has to go, do you really think The stats and skills carry over when hundings and julianos were meta and skills were balanced to them, when compared to sets like spell strat and NMA?
  • olsborg
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    Magsorc is pretty weak atm. Sure they have mobility. But you cant kill anyone with that. The only real dmg magsorcs have atm is overload. Without that magsorc would be complete crap.

    PC EU
    PvP only
  • Joinovikova
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    Mag sorc have after all nerfs only one option run and dark conversion. Try to use acceleration and u can easily catch sorc after few conversion without stamina. Just stun and kill.
  • Joinovikova
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    x48rph wrote: »
    While it's annoying to have a sorc keep streaking away, resetting and popping back in, it's not really a huge deal, at least to me. My only issue it the unblockable stun. Removing counter play to things is never really good. Even though I might miss a block 90% of the time, I should still at least have the option to try.
    When other class lose their unblockble stun then we can start to talk about remove it from sorc.
  • Sneakers
    Sneakers
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    Iskiab wrote: »
    Fawn4287 wrote: »
    Players constantly spam streak and convert, abilities that are in themselves overpowered for the cost. Streak is a huge aoe, hard CC, does decent damage, is a gap closer that requires no target, meaning it works as both an offensive and defensive ability and is used by stamina (the same reason petrify had a huge cost increase), the current 50% increase in cost is not enough, the ability should have a cost increase of 100% every time it is cast out of cooldown and the base cost increased by 1k. Likewise on Convert, the Ability is too often spammed, remove the channel from this ability as well as the instant resource return and make it like siphoning/leeching strikes, giving the full resources at the end or throughout then time of the buff. This would help improve sorc sustain in PVE and stop the spamming of a poorly balanced ability.

    INB4 “SoRc NeRf ThReAd”, most people are bandwagon meta hopping petsorc players anyway, as its virtually unseen out of a zerg when its not the best solo class.

    Issue with making it instant cast is it’d have to lose its heal. Otherwise it’d be one of the cheapest spammable heals out there.

    I don’t know what you mean by saying magsorcs are rarely seen solo too. They’re one of the most common solo cyrodiil classes, and popular in BGs as well.

    Might be on American servers.

    On EU ppl are too tanky in general to get lid up by a solo mag sorc.

    Most common solo class on EU is stam dk, stamden, stamnb (snipe spammers), stamnec.

    Most common setup I would guess is fury+NMA+bloodspawn / fury + spriggans + balorgh (depending on 2h ulti pr class ulti)
    28k + 5500 resis from pot, potentates and psijic backbar on all of them. One man army.

    Magsorc this patch is probably in most peoples books a zerg surf char to mess around with.
  • ku5h
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    LeHarrt91 wrote: »
    But if you CC break free Streak you cannot be stunned for another 7s and with conversion you can use an interrupt (like Crushing Shock/ Flying Daggers/ Venom Arrow)

    Do you really think that ppl who make this kind of treads even know that interrupt exist in this game?!
    It's obvious he never played the class since he doesn't even know mechanics behind the skill he want's nerfed.
    99% of nerf sorc treads are made by ppl who never played the class.
  • Naftal
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    ku5h wrote: »
    LeHarrt91 wrote: »
    But if you CC break free Streak you cannot be stunned for another 7s and with conversion you can use an interrupt (like Crushing Shock/ Flying Daggers/ Venom Arrow)

    Do you really think that ppl who make this kind of treads even know that interrupt exist in this game?!
    It's obvious he never played the class since he doesn't even know mechanics behind the skill he want's nerfed.
    99% of nerf sorc treads are made by ppl who never played the class.

    It's obvious that people like you have no counter argument but still want to disagree. 99% of nerf cry comments are made by players who don't understand balance.
  • Leeched
    Leeched
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    Imagine calling for even more Sorc nerfs... Sorc has so many issues. It has to stack around 40k max mag and 23k health to have a "decent" shield of around 8.5k in no CP, which costs over 4k to recast every few seconds cause its gone after 2-3 attacks since it can be crit now.
    Pet heal is strong but if you fight outnumbered, your pet will be dead most of the time and recasting it mostly means you will die.
    Streak is the only stun Sorc has (don't start with runecage, the still is utter garbage) and the only reason why Sorc is still a decent ranged mag class and able to 1vX cause its the only class thats viable to kite open field.
    Dark Deal/Conv can literally ONLY be used in combination with streak cause every decent player will simply interupt you, if you cast it right in their face.

    Sorc is not at all anymore what it used to be. I use other classes by now for solo/duo cause Sorc has sustain issues with all the high cost skills and other classes can outperform it easly. The only time this class is lots of fun is when running in a ~5 people Sorc smallscale but then stacking the same class 5 times is fun with any class...
    (DC) Grimsley - MagSorc || Denderan - StamPlar || Phaedon - StamBlade || Oberon - MagPlar || Leontes - StamSorc || Saroush - MagDk || Culan - StamDen || Dullahan - StamDk
    Ruvik - MagBlade || Tivil - MagDen || Juval - MagNecro || Gargrave - StamNecro
    (EP) Vicio - MagBlade || Clavigo - MagPlar || Peritas - MagDen || Fedrak - MagSorc
    (AD) Maledicto - MagBlade || Voriak - StamBlade

    PC EU || Currently CP 1500+
    Azura's Star Sotha Sil
    I serve bombs ღ - retired
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