Streak and convert spamming is a huge issue plaguing this game

MartiniDaniels

Dracane wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Streak is the last good ability Sorcerer has left. Everything else was overnerfed.
And in pvp, Streak is not even the issue. Most Sorcerers use Ball of Lightning, which is truly overperforming.
Purges you of roots and slows and grants you immortality against all ranged magicka builds by absorbing projectiles.

Be glad of those few using streak still. At least you can kill those.
Also; if Zenimax wants to force Sorcerers into melee range with this, then that is absolutely fine. Sorcerer is not suited to be in melee range, yet that is where Streak is usable offensively. So it is good they have something for this situation.

And oh gods! It is but a stun. Break free from it and be done with it. The Sorcerer needs a moment to turn around after streaking through you to follow up with crystal shard or something else. By that time any decent play has already broken free. And curse and meteor alone have never killed anyone on their own.

Posts like this... wow. You should really try playing other classes sometime. Almost all sorc skills are better than other class skills across the board.

Being ‘unkillable’ is only the baseline for being a good ability in sorc’s minds.

Play a templar and no Sorcerer can harm you. Play a Dragonknight and no Sorcerer can harm you.
Other classes excel at countering the entire Sorcerer strategy. Purge, Scales etc.

You are delusional if you think that Sorcerer is above other classes. It was at one point and that was 3 years ago.

Dracane wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Streak is the last good ability Sorcerer has left. Everything else was overnerfed.
And in pvp, Streak is not even the issue. Most Sorcerers use Ball of Lightning, which is truly overperforming.
Purges you of roots and slows and grants you immortality against all ranged magicka builds by absorbing projectiles.

Be glad of those few using streak still. At least you can kill those.
Also; if Zenimax wants to force Sorcerers into melee range with this, then that is absolutely fine. Sorcerer is not suited to be in melee range, yet that is where Streak is usable offensively. So it is good they have something for this situation.

And oh gods! It is but a stun. Break free from it and be done with it. The Sorcerer needs a moment to turn around after streaking through you to follow up with crystal shard or something else. By that time any decent play has already broken free. And curse and meteor alone have never killed anyone on their own.

Posts like this... wow. You should really try playing other classes sometime. Almost all sorc skills are better than other class skills across the board.

Being ‘unkillable’ is only the baseline for being a good ability in sorc’s minds.

Play a templar and no Sorcerer can harm you. Play a Dragonknight and no Sorcerer can harm you.
Other classes excel at countering the entire Sorcerer strategy. Purge, Scales etc.

You are delusional if you think that Sorcerer is above other classes. It was at one point and that was 3 years ago.

Do yourself a favour and switch classes. If you actually think that you aren’t playing a sorc well, and playing other classes will make you a better player.

Sorc’s main issue is it’s filled with players who’ve only played a sorc and have no perspective. No one in their right mind who’s played multiple classes thinks sorcs are weak.

Also no one who play other class will Say mág sorc is op om current patch

Yes, magsorc is not OP. It is top-tier class sharing this position with magplar, stamplar, stamden and stamcro. Thus, there is no necessity to nerf streak or sorc. There is necessity to buff/tweak other 7 specs.

Sorc is slightly below top tier. It appears stronger since it's easier to avoid confrontation with top tiers, but a magsorc committing to a fight with stamplar and even stamcro/stamDK will lose if both players are about same skill. Magsorc can't deliver enough constant pressure to crack the current meta tank builds to be top tier.

If magsorc keeps shields up he can tank through onslaught combo. So any fight turns into attrition duel and streak makes this attrition duel pretty hard for classes which lack ranged pressure or unblockable stuns, i.e. first of all stamplar. I play stamDK and stamplar, on stamDK I'm fine with magsorcs because I keep fossilizing/dizzying them and they can't apply their pressure non-stop.. on stamplar I was forced to sacrifice build which I liked and slot damned S&B backbar just to be able to fight with magsorcs on even terms.

As I said many times, I don't think that nerf of streak or nerf of jabs or nerf of any other "overloaded" ability will do any good. Moving unchained perk to no-CP (i.e. making it default one for any player from level 1), could've solved many issues... or just making break free much cheaper in all modes... but I guess devs are happy that ton of players run with moderate damage, insufficient for timed burst and rely on cc spam to get kills.

IF
In noCp common shield strengh is about 8.5k ( 40k max magicka (shields doesnt scale from spell dmg))
Im quite sure you arent even able to shield onslaught itself with 8k shield not onslaught combo.. Try to use it before writing this nonsense..
And Shieldstacking is no-go for noCp sorc.. 8k magicka wasted in ( if good) 6 seconds.. With only Shieldstacking normal sorc is out of resources in half minute, not counting offensive skill cost to enemy
Keep in mind you need to have some stamina recovery for cc break / dodge so you cannot go just for magicka

I don't get it. Typical health will be ~22k + shield 8k = 30k. What build is capable of dealing 30k damage in 2-3 GCD in no-CP against PVP build? This might happen only if majority of abilities will crit. So this is some borderline scenario when cc-pot is active (otherwise your burst is instantly cancelled by streak), AND majority of abilities will crit AND med-heavy attack stun is not blocked AND break-free didn't happen instantly so onslaught is not dodged AND sorc won't be able to block-tap matriarch heal before last execute(s) landed. That' what need to happen to kill sorc who keeps 1 shield up and is not depleted of magicka/stamina before onslaught.

Oh, shields are expensive. But using 3k+ cost gap closer to keep pressure on magsorc after each streak is not expensive? 5400 stamina drain after each unblockable streak is not expensive? Fact is that in no-CP melee build need to spend 8-9k resources to counter effects of 3-3.5k cost ability is not expensive?

Best thing magsorcs can say about fighting full melee builds in open is to say that full melee builds are powerful in towers/keeps and so magsorc naturally counters them in open and best solution against streak is not to fight magsorcs in open. Of course magsorcs who don't keep shield up die often to stamina combos... but that is class rule - shield MUST be UP. Same as vigor should be up for any stamina build.

I can assure you, if you keep using streak constantly to keep ur distance while also keeping ur shields up and while also trying to deal dmg it's gonna drain a lot more than 3.5k magicka.

She/He never play magsorc so she/he should try and then not share such bulshit.

You know.. magsorcs like you are shame on class reputation... I fought many tough solo magsorcs and talked with them afterwards and they all agree that streak is much better then BoL and that ability would be OP if there were no other powerful abilities in the game (like onslaught, ritual, shalks, new blastbones etc).
All the magsorc drama is L2P issue now... class was easy before, now it requires considerable skill to play to the fullest. Thus, persons who don't want to learn just keep spamming "Neeerf jabs!", though I have no idea how you can have problems on magsorc against stamplar given that stamplar has least counters to magsorc. If you complained about stamDK or stamdens against magsorc, I can agree that those classes have direct counters... but stamplar... lol. Just keep streaking each 7-8 seconds, block TC, cast shields when stamplar is near, use dark deal after break free, keep curse up and keep spamming light attack weaved with eleweapon or force pulse and stamplars will have heavy time killing you..

I actually disagree with this. When on my sorc, a good Templar (especially a good stamplar) is perhaps my toughest counter. They can easily purge the heart of our burst combo (curse), they have a gap closer to keep streak in check, and they have some of the best consistent pressure with jabs (which is the best way to deal with shields). There might be other classes like a really tanky DK that I will have a tougher time killing solo, but I am far less worried about dying in the process.

Also, personal attacks really arent necessary, but that is just my 2 cents.

I agree with this. Templar has been a counter to Sorcerer since forever. They always love to make themselves look small and in need of help, but do not allow them to fool you. Templar is superbly formiddable at surviving and killing Sorcerers.

If I had to 1v1 a stamina spec and my life depended on it, I would rather go against everything other than a Templar.

Nobody considered stamplar dangerous before U23-24 at all... it was off-meta spec for enthusiasts... so how it could've been "Sorcerer counter since forever" I don't know.

Now stamplar simply have probably highest damage potential... so when jabs hit and when BL/POTL crit you can see some wild recaps... but if you keep streaking, jabs will barely scratch you. Let's say you streak each 7 seconds. How much time this leaves to stamplar to jab you... 1 GCD for break-free. ~1.5 GCD for TC. 1 GCD for vigor. 1 GCD to renew ritual or rune or rally... 1 GCD for POTL. So you can be jabbed 2 times max before you can just streak through those jabs again... of course in reality you won't streak on cooldown... but in reality stamplar will spent some time dodging/moving as well.

As a former petsorc, Stamina Templar has been the greatest threat since an eternity. They countered my entire setup and could always outsustain me with their immortality thanks to purge and damage. I always run away when I see one.

And I as stamDK/stamplar have another experience - I have easy time on stamDK against sorcs and in majority of cases kill them by counter-attack during their burst when shields are down - this is without wings... with wings magsorc pressure is simply non-existent to stamDK... and on stamplar I don't have problems with any spec other then magsorc and was forced to build specifically to fight magsorcs, or more correctly to fight with streak spam. BUT in the same time I destroy stamDK on stamplar and die to stamplars on stamDK (if major evasion is not used in both cases)... So for me it seems like templar, sorc and DK exist like rock-paper-scissors to each other. This is because DK have poor mobility and is all melee and so is forced to eat jabs, while sorc is very mobile and it is hard to land jabs against one... in the same time DK has leap and fossilize and wings (in the past) and all this abilities are extremely efficient against ranged projectile builds and also fossilize applies huge stamina drain on magsorc.
So I still don't understand how old DK which was reflecting your flame reaches back into you, was more desirable opponent then stamplar... which only had cheap purge and when off-balance was much weaker..

Dk was very easy to deal with. Pets ignore their wings, I had wall of elements and lots of off balance heavy attacks. DKs are only strong for 1 single reason: The most broken passive in the game; Undeath. Vampire DKs are being carried by it to Oblivion and back. They and everyone else would be pathetic filth without it.

But Templar... no chance. They purge curse and that is the end of the story. Daedric prey is particularly easy to purge. But well, it is trash now, as are pets. So I just play pve.

EDIT: I am talking about the past, mind you. Now where I am no longer using pets and wings last forever, there is not too much to be done. Harness magicka was the only reason a Sorcerer could outlast a magicka DKs constant pressure.

Well, pet builds are mostly non-existent now, so we can't say how new stamplar will do against new pets (I guess anything will be great against them)... but against meta magsorcs who don't use wrath but spam streak and dark deal, full melee classes are in disadvantage if they don't have specific counters... and the only stamplar's specific counter - off-balance in TC just experienced horrific nerf. So I guess I'll just run from magsorcs like you said because I am really bored by S&B anti-sorc build with 2500 stam regen..

oxygen_thief

Anyron wrote: »

Streak spamming doesn't make your enemy die. Its escape tool which works as it should and as was designed. Stun should be removed but then this skill is ok.

does ok mean dead? give me at least one reason to slot stunless streak

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

meta magsorcs who don't use wrath but spam streak and dark deal

what do you mean meta? sorcs play like this since forever

Dracane

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Streak is the last good ability Sorcerer has left. Everything else was overnerfed.
And in pvp, Streak is not even the issue. Most Sorcerers use Ball of Lightning, which is truly overperforming.
Purges you of roots and slows and grants you immortality against all ranged magicka builds by absorbing projectiles.

Be glad of those few using streak still. At least you can kill those.
Also; if Zenimax wants to force Sorcerers into melee range with this, then that is absolutely fine. Sorcerer is not suited to be in melee range, yet that is where Streak is usable offensively. So it is good they have something for this situation.

And oh gods! It is but a stun. Break free from it and be done with it. The Sorcerer needs a moment to turn around after streaking through you to follow up with crystal shard or something else. By that time any decent play has already broken free. And curse and meteor alone have never killed anyone on their own.

Posts like this... wow. You should really try playing other classes sometime. Almost all sorc skills are better than other class skills across the board.

Being ‘unkillable’ is only the baseline for being a good ability in sorc’s minds.

Play a templar and no Sorcerer can harm you. Play a Dragonknight and no Sorcerer can harm you.
Other classes excel at countering the entire Sorcerer strategy. Purge, Scales etc.

You are delusional if you think that Sorcerer is above other classes. It was at one point and that was 3 years ago.

Dracane wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Streak is the last good ability Sorcerer has left. Everything else was overnerfed.
And in pvp, Streak is not even the issue. Most Sorcerers use Ball of Lightning, which is truly overperforming.
Purges you of roots and slows and grants you immortality against all ranged magicka builds by absorbing projectiles.

Be glad of those few using streak still. At least you can kill those.
Also; if Zenimax wants to force Sorcerers into melee range with this, then that is absolutely fine. Sorcerer is not suited to be in melee range, yet that is where Streak is usable offensively. So it is good they have something for this situation.

And oh gods! It is but a stun. Break free from it and be done with it. The Sorcerer needs a moment to turn around after streaking through you to follow up with crystal shard or something else. By that time any decent play has already broken free. And curse and meteor alone have never killed anyone on their own.

Posts like this... wow. You should really try playing other classes sometime. Almost all sorc skills are better than other class skills across the board.

Being ‘unkillable’ is only the baseline for being a good ability in sorc’s minds.

Play a templar and no Sorcerer can harm you. Play a Dragonknight and no Sorcerer can harm you.
Other classes excel at countering the entire Sorcerer strategy. Purge, Scales etc.

You are delusional if you think that Sorcerer is above other classes. It was at one point and that was 3 years ago.

Do yourself a favour and switch classes. If you actually think that you aren’t playing a sorc well, and playing other classes will make you a better player.

Sorc’s main issue is it’s filled with players who’ve only played a sorc and have no perspective. No one in their right mind who’s played multiple classes thinks sorcs are weak.

Also no one who play other class will Say mág sorc is op om current patch

Yes, magsorc is not OP. It is top-tier class sharing this position with magplar, stamplar, stamden and stamcro. Thus, there is no necessity to nerf streak or sorc. There is necessity to buff/tweak other 7 specs.

Sorc is slightly below top tier. It appears stronger since it's easier to avoid confrontation with top tiers, but a magsorc committing to a fight with stamplar and even stamcro/stamDK will lose if both players are about same skill. Magsorc can't deliver enough constant pressure to crack the current meta tank builds to be top tier.

If magsorc keeps shields up he can tank through onslaught combo. So any fight turns into attrition duel and streak makes this attrition duel pretty hard for classes which lack ranged pressure or unblockable stuns, i.e. first of all stamplar. I play stamDK and stamplar, on stamDK I'm fine with magsorcs because I keep fossilizing/dizzying them and they can't apply their pressure non-stop.. on stamplar I was forced to sacrifice build which I liked and slot damned S&B backbar just to be able to fight with magsorcs on even terms.

As I said many times, I don't think that nerf of streak or nerf of jabs or nerf of any other "overloaded" ability will do any good. Moving unchained perk to no-CP (i.e. making it default one for any player from level 1), could've solved many issues... or just making break free much cheaper in all modes... but I guess devs are happy that ton of players run with moderate damage, insufficient for timed burst and rely on cc spam to get kills.

IF
In noCp common shield strengh is about 8.5k ( 40k max magicka (shields doesnt scale from spell dmg))
Im quite sure you arent even able to shield onslaught itself with 8k shield not onslaught combo.. Try to use it before writing this nonsense..
And Shieldstacking is no-go for noCp sorc.. 8k magicka wasted in ( if good) 6 seconds.. With only Shieldstacking normal sorc is out of resources in half minute, not counting offensive skill cost to enemy
Keep in mind you need to have some stamina recovery for cc break / dodge so you cannot go just for magicka

I don't get it. Typical health will be ~22k + shield 8k = 30k. What build is capable of dealing 30k damage in 2-3 GCD in no-CP against PVP build? This might happen only if majority of abilities will crit. So this is some borderline scenario when cc-pot is active (otherwise your burst is instantly cancelled by streak), AND majority of abilities will crit AND med-heavy attack stun is not blocked AND break-free didn't happen instantly so onslaught is not dodged AND sorc won't be able to block-tap matriarch heal before last execute(s) landed. That' what need to happen to kill sorc who keeps 1 shield up and is not depleted of magicka/stamina before onslaught.

Oh, shields are expensive. But using 3k+ cost gap closer to keep pressure on magsorc after each streak is not expensive? 5400 stamina drain after each unblockable streak is not expensive? Fact is that in no-CP melee build need to spend 8-9k resources to counter effects of 3-3.5k cost ability is not expensive?

Best thing magsorcs can say about fighting full melee builds in open is to say that full melee builds are powerful in towers/keeps and so magsorc naturally counters them in open and best solution against streak is not to fight magsorcs in open. Of course magsorcs who don't keep shield up die often to stamina combos... but that is class rule - shield MUST be UP. Same as vigor should be up for any stamina build.

I can assure you, if you keep using streak constantly to keep ur distance while also keeping ur shields up and while also trying to deal dmg it's gonna drain a lot more than 3.5k magicka.

She/He never play magsorc so she/he should try and then not share such bulshit.

You know.. magsorcs like you are shame on class reputation... I fought many tough solo magsorcs and talked with them afterwards and they all agree that streak is much better then BoL and that ability would be OP if there were no other powerful abilities in the game (like onslaught, ritual, shalks, new blastbones etc).
All the magsorc drama is L2P issue now... class was easy before, now it requires considerable skill to play to the fullest. Thus, persons who don't want to learn just keep spamming "Neeerf jabs!", though I have no idea how you can have problems on magsorc against stamplar given that stamplar has least counters to magsorc. If you complained about stamDK or stamdens against magsorc, I can agree that those classes have direct counters... but stamplar... lol. Just keep streaking each 7-8 seconds, block TC, cast shields when stamplar is near, use dark deal after break free, keep curse up and keep spamming light attack weaved with eleweapon or force pulse and stamplars will have heavy time killing you..

I actually disagree with this. When on my sorc, a good Templar (especially a good stamplar) is perhaps my toughest counter. They can easily purge the heart of our burst combo (curse), they have a gap closer to keep streak in check, and they have some of the best consistent pressure with jabs (which is the best way to deal with shields). There might be other classes like a really tanky DK that I will have a tougher time killing solo, but I am far less worried about dying in the process.

Also, personal attacks really arent necessary, but that is just my 2 cents.

I agree with this. Templar has been a counter to Sorcerer since forever. They always love to make themselves look small and in need of help, but do not allow them to fool you. Templar is superbly formiddable at surviving and killing Sorcerers.

If I had to 1v1 a stamina spec and my life depended on it, I would rather go against everything other than a Templar.

Nobody considered stamplar dangerous before U23-24 at all... it was off-meta spec for enthusiasts... so how it could've been "Sorcerer counter since forever" I don't know.

Now stamplar simply have probably highest damage potential... so when jabs hit and when BL/POTL crit you can see some wild recaps... but if you keep streaking, jabs will barely scratch you. Let's say you streak each 7 seconds. How much time this leaves to stamplar to jab you... 1 GCD for break-free. ~1.5 GCD for TC. 1 GCD for vigor. 1 GCD to renew ritual or rune or rally... 1 GCD for POTL. So you can be jabbed 2 times max before you can just streak through those jabs again... of course in reality you won't streak on cooldown... but in reality stamplar will spent some time dodging/moving as well.

As a former petsorc, Stamina Templar has been the greatest threat since an eternity. They countered my entire setup and could always outsustain me with their immortality thanks to purge and damage. I always run away when I see one.

And I as stamDK/stamplar have another experience - I have easy time on stamDK against sorcs and in majority of cases kill them by counter-attack during their burst when shields are down - this is without wings... with wings magsorc pressure is simply non-existent to stamDK... and on stamplar I don't have problems with any spec other then magsorc and was forced to build specifically to fight magsorcs, or more correctly to fight with streak spam. BUT in the same time I destroy stamDK on stamplar and die to stamplars on stamDK (if major evasion is not used in both cases)... So for me it seems like templar, sorc and DK exist like rock-paper-scissors to each other. This is because DK have poor mobility and is all melee and so is forced to eat jabs, while sorc is very mobile and it is hard to land jabs against one... in the same time DK has leap and fossilize and wings (in the past) and all this abilities are extremely efficient against ranged projectile builds and also fossilize applies huge stamina drain on magsorc.
So I still don't understand how old DK which was reflecting your flame reaches back into you, was more desirable opponent then stamplar... which only had cheap purge and when off-balance was much weaker..

Dk was very easy to deal with. Pets ignore their wings, I had wall of elements and lots of off balance heavy attacks. DKs are only strong for 1 single reason: The most broken passive in the game; Undeath. Vampire DKs are being carried by it to Oblivion and back. They and everyone else would be pathetic filth without it.

But Templar... no chance. They purge curse and that is the end of the story. Daedric prey is particularly easy to purge. But well, it is trash now, as are pets. So I just play pve.

EDIT: I am talking about the past, mind you. Now where I am no longer using pets and wings last forever, there is not too much to be done. Harness magicka was the only reason a Sorcerer could outlast a magicka DKs constant pressure.

Well, pet builds are mostly non-existent now, so we can't say how new stamplar will do against new pets (I guess anything will be great against them)... but against meta magsorcs who don't use wrath but spam streak and dark deal, full melee classes are in disadvantage if they don't have specific counters... and the only stamplar's specific counter - off-balance in TC just experienced horrific nerf. So I guess I'll just run from magsorcs like you said because I am really bored by S&B anti-sorc build with 2500 stam regen..

From what I see, you appear to possess alot of knowledge. I wish to know so much more from you.

MartiniDaniels

oxygen_thief wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Streak spamming doesn't make your enemy die. Its escape tool which works as it should and as was designed. Stun should be removed but then this skill is ok.

does ok mean dead? give me at least one reason to slot stunless streak

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

meta magsorcs who don't use wrath but spam streak and dark deal

what do you mean meta? sorcs play like this since forever

Obviously there are different sorcs... there are "group" players with mage's wrath and solo players without it. Templar's ER is good when it cleanses wrath and curse. When it cleanses only curse exchange of resources is not efficient. Imo, non-wrath sorcs are more powerful and are meta.

Dracane wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Streak is the last good ability Sorcerer has left. Everything else was overnerfed.
And in pvp, Streak is not even the issue. Most Sorcerers use Ball of Lightning, which is truly overperforming.
Purges you of roots and slows and grants you immortality against all ranged magicka builds by absorbing projectiles.

Be glad of those few using streak still. At least you can kill those.
Also; if Zenimax wants to force Sorcerers into melee range with this, then that is absolutely fine. Sorcerer is not suited to be in melee range, yet that is where Streak is usable offensively. So it is good they have something for this situation.

And oh gods! It is but a stun. Break free from it and be done with it. The Sorcerer needs a moment to turn around after streaking through you to follow up with crystal shard or something else. By that time any decent play has already broken free. And curse and meteor alone have never killed anyone on their own.

Posts like this... wow. You should really try playing other classes sometime. Almost all sorc skills are better than other class skills across the board.

Being ‘unkillable’ is only the baseline for being a good ability in sorc’s minds.

Play a templar and no Sorcerer can harm you. Play a Dragonknight and no Sorcerer can harm you.
Other classes excel at countering the entire Sorcerer strategy. Purge, Scales etc.

You are delusional if you think that Sorcerer is above other classes. It was at one point and that was 3 years ago.

Dracane wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Streak is the last good ability Sorcerer has left. Everything else was overnerfed.
And in pvp, Streak is not even the issue. Most Sorcerers use Ball of Lightning, which is truly overperforming.
Purges you of roots and slows and grants you immortality against all ranged magicka builds by absorbing projectiles.

Be glad of those few using streak still. At least you can kill those.
Also; if Zenimax wants to force Sorcerers into melee range with this, then that is absolutely fine. Sorcerer is not suited to be in melee range, yet that is where Streak is usable offensively. So it is good they have something for this situation.

And oh gods! It is but a stun. Break free from it and be done with it. The Sorcerer needs a moment to turn around after streaking through you to follow up with crystal shard or something else. By that time any decent play has already broken free. And curse and meteor alone have never killed anyone on their own.

Posts like this... wow. You should really try playing other classes sometime. Almost all sorc skills are better than other class skills across the board.

Being ‘unkillable’ is only the baseline for being a good ability in sorc’s minds.

Play a templar and no Sorcerer can harm you. Play a Dragonknight and no Sorcerer can harm you.
Other classes excel at countering the entire Sorcerer strategy. Purge, Scales etc.

You are delusional if you think that Sorcerer is above other classes. It was at one point and that was 3 years ago.

Do yourself a favour and switch classes. If you actually think that you aren’t playing a sorc well, and playing other classes will make you a better player.

Sorc’s main issue is it’s filled with players who’ve only played a sorc and have no perspective. No one in their right mind who’s played multiple classes thinks sorcs are weak.

Also no one who play other class will Say mág sorc is op om current patch

Yes, magsorc is not OP. It is top-tier class sharing this position with magplar, stamplar, stamden and stamcro. Thus, there is no necessity to nerf streak or sorc. There is necessity to buff/tweak other 7 specs.

Sorc is slightly below top tier. It appears stronger since it's easier to avoid confrontation with top tiers, but a magsorc committing to a fight with stamplar and even stamcro/stamDK will lose if both players are about same skill. Magsorc can't deliver enough constant pressure to crack the current meta tank builds to be top tier.

If magsorc keeps shields up he can tank through onslaught combo. So any fight turns into attrition duel and streak makes this attrition duel pretty hard for classes which lack ranged pressure or unblockable stuns, i.e. first of all stamplar. I play stamDK and stamplar, on stamDK I'm fine with magsorcs because I keep fossilizing/dizzying them and they can't apply their pressure non-stop.. on stamplar I was forced to sacrifice build which I liked and slot damned S&B backbar just to be able to fight with magsorcs on even terms.

As I said many times, I don't think that nerf of streak or nerf of jabs or nerf of any other "overloaded" ability will do any good. Moving unchained perk to no-CP (i.e. making it default one for any player from level 1), could've solved many issues... or just making break free much cheaper in all modes... but I guess devs are happy that ton of players run with moderate damage, insufficient for timed burst and rely on cc spam to get kills.

IF
In noCp common shield strengh is about 8.5k ( 40k max magicka (shields doesnt scale from spell dmg))
Im quite sure you arent even able to shield onslaught itself with 8k shield not onslaught combo.. Try to use it before writing this nonsense..
And Shieldstacking is no-go for noCp sorc.. 8k magicka wasted in ( if good) 6 seconds.. With only Shieldstacking normal sorc is out of resources in half minute, not counting offensive skill cost to enemy
Keep in mind you need to have some stamina recovery for cc break / dodge so you cannot go just for magicka

I don't get it. Typical health will be ~22k + shield 8k = 30k. What build is capable of dealing 30k damage in 2-3 GCD in no-CP against PVP build? This might happen only if majority of abilities will crit. So this is some borderline scenario when cc-pot is active (otherwise your burst is instantly cancelled by streak), AND majority of abilities will crit AND med-heavy attack stun is not blocked AND break-free didn't happen instantly so onslaught is not dodged AND sorc won't be able to block-tap matriarch heal before last execute(s) landed. That' what need to happen to kill sorc who keeps 1 shield up and is not depleted of magicka/stamina before onslaught.

Oh, shields are expensive. But using 3k+ cost gap closer to keep pressure on magsorc after each streak is not expensive? 5400 stamina drain after each unblockable streak is not expensive? Fact is that in no-CP melee build need to spend 8-9k resources to counter effects of 3-3.5k cost ability is not expensive?

Best thing magsorcs can say about fighting full melee builds in open is to say that full melee builds are powerful in towers/keeps and so magsorc naturally counters them in open and best solution against streak is not to fight magsorcs in open. Of course magsorcs who don't keep shield up die often to stamina combos... but that is class rule - shield MUST be UP. Same as vigor should be up for any stamina build.

I can assure you, if you keep using streak constantly to keep ur distance while also keeping ur shields up and while also trying to deal dmg it's gonna drain a lot more than 3.5k magicka.

She/He never play magsorc so she/he should try and then not share such bulshit.

You know.. magsorcs like you are shame on class reputation... I fought many tough solo magsorcs and talked with them afterwards and they all agree that streak is much better then BoL and that ability would be OP if there were no other powerful abilities in the game (like onslaught, ritual, shalks, new blastbones etc).
All the magsorc drama is L2P issue now... class was easy before, now it requires considerable skill to play to the fullest. Thus, persons who don't want to learn just keep spamming "Neeerf jabs!", though I have no idea how you can have problems on magsorc against stamplar given that stamplar has least counters to magsorc. If you complained about stamDK or stamdens against magsorc, I can agree that those classes have direct counters... but stamplar... lol. Just keep streaking each 7-8 seconds, block TC, cast shields when stamplar is near, use dark deal after break free, keep curse up and keep spamming light attack weaved with eleweapon or force pulse and stamplars will have heavy time killing you..

I actually disagree with this. When on my sorc, a good Templar (especially a good stamplar) is perhaps my toughest counter. They can easily purge the heart of our burst combo (curse), they have a gap closer to keep streak in check, and they have some of the best consistent pressure with jabs (which is the best way to deal with shields). There might be other classes like a really tanky DK that I will have a tougher time killing solo, but I am far less worried about dying in the process.

Also, personal attacks really arent necessary, but that is just my 2 cents.

I agree with this. Templar has been a counter to Sorcerer since forever. They always love to make themselves look small and in need of help, but do not allow them to fool you. Templar is superbly formiddable at surviving and killing Sorcerers.

If I had to 1v1 a stamina spec and my life depended on it, I would rather go against everything other than a Templar.

Nobody considered stamplar dangerous before U23-24 at all... it was off-meta spec for enthusiasts... so how it could've been "Sorcerer counter since forever" I don't know.

Now stamplar simply have probably highest damage potential... so when jabs hit and when BL/POTL crit you can see some wild recaps... but if you keep streaking, jabs will barely scratch you. Let's say you streak each 7 seconds. How much time this leaves to stamplar to jab you... 1 GCD for break-free. ~1.5 GCD for TC. 1 GCD for vigor. 1 GCD to renew ritual or rune or rally... 1 GCD for POTL. So you can be jabbed 2 times max before you can just streak through those jabs again... of course in reality you won't streak on cooldown... but in reality stamplar will spent some time dodging/moving as well.

As a former petsorc, Stamina Templar has been the greatest threat since an eternity. They countered my entire setup and could always outsustain me with their immortality thanks to purge and damage. I always run away when I see one.

And I as stamDK/stamplar have another experience - I have easy time on stamDK against sorcs and in majority of cases kill them by counter-attack during their burst when shields are down - this is without wings... with wings magsorc pressure is simply non-existent to stamDK... and on stamplar I don't have problems with any spec other then magsorc and was forced to build specifically to fight magsorcs, or more correctly to fight with streak spam. BUT in the same time I destroy stamDK on stamplar and die to stamplars on stamDK (if major evasion is not used in both cases)... So for me it seems like templar, sorc and DK exist like rock-paper-scissors to each other. This is because DK have poor mobility and is all melee and so is forced to eat jabs, while sorc is very mobile and it is hard to land jabs against one... in the same time DK has leap and fossilize and wings (in the past) and all this abilities are extremely efficient against ranged projectile builds and also fossilize applies huge stamina drain on magsorc.
So I still don't understand how old DK which was reflecting your flame reaches back into you, was more desirable opponent then stamplar... which only had cheap purge and when off-balance was much weaker..

Dk was very easy to deal with. Pets ignore their wings, I had wall of elements and lots of off balance heavy attacks. DKs are only strong for 1 single reason: The most broken passive in the game; Undeath. Vampire DKs are being carried by it to Oblivion and back. They and everyone else would be pathetic filth without it.

But Templar... no chance. They purge curse and that is the end of the story. Daedric prey is particularly easy to purge. But well, it is trash now, as are pets. So I just play pve.

EDIT: I am talking about the past, mind you. Now where I am no longer using pets and wings last forever, there is not too much to be done. Harness magicka was the only reason a Sorcerer could outlast a magicka DKs constant pressure.

Well, pet builds are mostly non-existent now, so we can't say how new stamplar will do against new pets (I guess anything will be great against them)... but against meta magsorcs who don't use wrath but spam streak and dark deal, full melee classes are in disadvantage if they don't have specific counters... and the only stamplar's specific counter - off-balance in TC just experienced horrific nerf. So I guess I'll just run from magsorcs like you said because I am really bored by S&B anti-sorc build with 2500 stam regen..

From what I see, you appear to possess alot of knowledge. I wish to know so much more from you.

This one feels irony from your words nevertheless, I'm just stamDK main looking for balanced game that's all. I thought that jabs were OP before I tried playing stamplar.. after that I just slot major evasion on all toons and don't care about jabs. I wish there was so easy accessible counter to streak and other unblockable cc's in no-CP. I found such counter... but it makes me over sustaining against other classes and limits my burst... now with off-balance nerf situation is even worse.

Dracane

@MartiniDaniels I promise, it was not. I meant what I said. You seem to have good knowledge about current metas.

oxygen_thief

how a legend was born. i fought a stealthy stam nb 1vs1 in battlegrounds today. at first i tried to escape then kept him from hiding by streaking. after it was over he whispered to me

Fawn4287

One of the other major problems with a non targeted gap close is that it requires such little effort to line of sight, apart from shadow cloak (the most broken skill in the game) nothing else lets you disengage from a fight so easily, meaning there is often very little risk in taking a fight you can just turn and run from. Another issue is that you have a hard cc, a gapclose and better mobility than a skill offering major expedition will give.

Anyron

oxygen_thief wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Streak spamming doesn't make your enemy die. Its escape tool which works as it should and as was designed. Stun should be removed but then this skill is ok.

does ok mean dead? give me at least one reason to slot stunless streak

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

meta magsorcs who don't use wrath but spam streak and dark deal

what do you mean meta? sorcs play like this since forever

You want reason? Its escape tool. Thats reason why you should use it. Defensively, not offensively

Only if they change rune prison for something what is not waste of skillslot and magicka - maybe make it instant is enought - and more than few sorcs would swap it


I am using rune prison but that stun isnt what i have it for, when i am dueling. Its to get rid of enemy stam because most, if not all stambuilds rather use dodge roll several times than get that stun.

oxygen_thief

Anyron wrote: »

oxygen_thief wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Streak spamming doesn't make your enemy die. Its escape tool which works as it should and as was designed. Stun should be removed but then this skill is ok.

does ok mean dead? give me at least one reason to slot stunless streak

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

meta magsorcs who don't use wrath but spam streak and dark deal

what do you mean meta? sorcs play like this since forever

You want reason? Its escape tool. Thats reason why you should use it. Defensively, not offensively

really? i will slot bol to use it defensively. streak will be absolutely useless an dead

Fawn4287 wrote: »

nothing else lets you disengage from a fight so easily, meaning there is often very little risk in taking a fight you can just turn and run from.

you forgot about shadow image and undo

pieratsos

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Streak is the last good ability Sorcerer has left. Everything else was overnerfed.
And in pvp, Streak is not even the issue. Most Sorcerers use Ball of Lightning, which is truly overperforming.
Purges you of roots and slows and grants you immortality against all ranged magicka builds by absorbing projectiles.

Be glad of those few using streak still. At least you can kill those.
Also; if Zenimax wants to force Sorcerers into melee range with this, then that is absolutely fine. Sorcerer is not suited to be in melee range, yet that is where Streak is usable offensively. So it is good they have something for this situation.

And oh gods! It is but a stun. Break free from it and be done with it. The Sorcerer needs a moment to turn around after streaking through you to follow up with crystal shard or something else. By that time any decent play has already broken free. And curse and meteor alone have never killed anyone on their own.

Posts like this... wow. You should really try playing other classes sometime. Almost all sorc skills are better than other class skills across the board.

Being ‘unkillable’ is only the baseline for being a good ability in sorc’s minds.

Play a templar and no Sorcerer can harm you. Play a Dragonknight and no Sorcerer can harm you.
Other classes excel at countering the entire Sorcerer strategy. Purge, Scales etc.

You are delusional if you think that Sorcerer is above other classes. It was at one point and that was 3 years ago.

Dracane wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Streak is the last good ability Sorcerer has left. Everything else was overnerfed.
And in pvp, Streak is not even the issue. Most Sorcerers use Ball of Lightning, which is truly overperforming.
Purges you of roots and slows and grants you immortality against all ranged magicka builds by absorbing projectiles.

Be glad of those few using streak still. At least you can kill those.
Also; if Zenimax wants to force Sorcerers into melee range with this, then that is absolutely fine. Sorcerer is not suited to be in melee range, yet that is where Streak is usable offensively. So it is good they have something for this situation.

And oh gods! It is but a stun. Break free from it and be done with it. The Sorcerer needs a moment to turn around after streaking through you to follow up with crystal shard or something else. By that time any decent play has already broken free. And curse and meteor alone have never killed anyone on their own.

Posts like this... wow. You should really try playing other classes sometime. Almost all sorc skills are better than other class skills across the board.

Being ‘unkillable’ is only the baseline for being a good ability in sorc’s minds.

Play a templar and no Sorcerer can harm you. Play a Dragonknight and no Sorcerer can harm you.
Other classes excel at countering the entire Sorcerer strategy. Purge, Scales etc.

You are delusional if you think that Sorcerer is above other classes. It was at one point and that was 3 years ago.

Do yourself a favour and switch classes. If you actually think that you aren’t playing a sorc well, and playing other classes will make you a better player.

Sorc’s main issue is it’s filled with players who’ve only played a sorc and have no perspective. No one in their right mind who’s played multiple classes thinks sorcs are weak.

Also no one who play other class will Say mág sorc is op om current patch

Yes, magsorc is not OP. It is top-tier class sharing this position with magplar, stamplar, stamden and stamcro. Thus, there is no necessity to nerf streak or sorc. There is necessity to buff/tweak other 7 specs.

Sorc is slightly below top tier. It appears stronger since it's easier to avoid confrontation with top tiers, but a magsorc committing to a fight with stamplar and even stamcro/stamDK will lose if both players are about same skill. Magsorc can't deliver enough constant pressure to crack the current meta tank builds to be top tier.

If magsorc keeps shields up he can tank through onslaught combo. So any fight turns into attrition duel and streak makes this attrition duel pretty hard for classes which lack ranged pressure or unblockable stuns, i.e. first of all stamplar. I play stamDK and stamplar, on stamDK I'm fine with magsorcs because I keep fossilizing/dizzying them and they can't apply their pressure non-stop.. on stamplar I was forced to sacrifice build which I liked and slot damned S&B backbar just to be able to fight with magsorcs on even terms.

As I said many times, I don't think that nerf of streak or nerf of jabs or nerf of any other "overloaded" ability will do any good. Moving unchained perk to no-CP (i.e. making it default one for any player from level 1), could've solved many issues... or just making break free much cheaper in all modes... but I guess devs are happy that ton of players run with moderate damage, insufficient for timed burst and rely on cc spam to get kills.

IF
In noCp common shield strengh is about 8.5k ( 40k max magicka (shields doesnt scale from spell dmg))
Im quite sure you arent even able to shield onslaught itself with 8k shield not onslaught combo.. Try to use it before writing this nonsense..
And Shieldstacking is no-go for noCp sorc.. 8k magicka wasted in ( if good) 6 seconds.. With only Shieldstacking normal sorc is out of resources in half minute, not counting offensive skill cost to enemy
Keep in mind you need to have some stamina recovery for cc break / dodge so you cannot go just for magicka

I don't get it. Typical health will be ~22k + shield 8k = 30k. What build is capable of dealing 30k damage in 2-3 GCD in no-CP against PVP build? This might happen only if majority of abilities will crit. So this is some borderline scenario when cc-pot is active (otherwise your burst is instantly cancelled by streak), AND majority of abilities will crit AND med-heavy attack stun is not blocked AND break-free didn't happen instantly so onslaught is not dodged AND sorc won't be able to block-tap matriarch heal before last execute(s) landed. That' what need to happen to kill sorc who keeps 1 shield up and is not depleted of magicka/stamina before onslaught.

Oh, shields are expensive. But using 3k+ cost gap closer to keep pressure on magsorc after each streak is not expensive? 5400 stamina drain after each unblockable streak is not expensive? Fact is that in no-CP melee build need to spend 8-9k resources to counter effects of 3-3.5k cost ability is not expensive?

Best thing magsorcs can say about fighting full melee builds in open is to say that full melee builds are powerful in towers/keeps and so magsorc naturally counters them in open and best solution against streak is not to fight magsorcs in open. Of course magsorcs who don't keep shield up die often to stamina combos... but that is class rule - shield MUST be UP. Same as vigor should be up for any stamina build.

I can assure you, if you keep using streak constantly to keep ur distance while also keeping ur shields up and while also trying to deal dmg it's gonna drain a lot more than 3.5k magicka.

Streak cooldown is 4 seconds. CC-immunity cooldown is 7 seconds. I absolutely don't see why you should streak several times "to keep distance" one streak+stun+ movement already puts you far enough to require gap closer use from your melee opponent. Well, bow backbar builds have natural high speed from roll-dodges so they don't require gap closer spam as full melee but they will still receive ton of damage while closing in on magsorc.

Anyway, I found combo which allows me to keep magsorcs in check on stamplar... but that combo requires sacrifices and is overkill in terms of protection/sustain against other classes. With build where I don't feel like I'm outclassed by magsorc's build, I am immortal against all other specs maybe with exception of some good stamcros...

Because u are not going to facetank 6k+ wpn dmg builds unless u are playing some seriously defensively busted sorc with capped resists protection buffs and crap like that. And no u don't need a gap closer to catch up with one streak. U can just walk up on them which also won't make ur character vulnerable during the gap closer animation.

The sorc will need to constantly keep the distance because again he doesn't want to be in melee range against ridicously high wpn dmg builds which means constant streaking keeping shields up while also attempting to be offensive in the little time he has left. And I can assure that's really really really expensive. And if he does manage to kill u while doing that well newsflash. He outplayed you and killed you. Nothing wrong with that.

pieratsos

Anyron wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Streak is the last good ability Sorcerer has left. Everything else was overnerfed.
And in pvp, Streak is not even the issue. Most Sorcerers use Ball of Lightning, which is truly overperforming.
Purges you of roots and slows and grants you immortality against all ranged magicka builds by absorbing projectiles.

Be glad of those few using streak still. At least you can kill those.
Also; if Zenimax wants to force Sorcerers into melee range with this, then that is absolutely fine. Sorcerer is not suited to be in melee range, yet that is where Streak is usable offensively. So it is good they have something for this situation.

And oh gods! It is but a stun. Break free from it and be done with it. The Sorcerer needs a moment to turn around after streaking through you to follow up with crystal shard or something else. By that time any decent play has already broken free. And curse and meteor alone have never killed anyone on their own.

Posts like this... wow. You should really try playing other classes sometime. Almost all sorc skills are better than other class skills across the board.

Being ‘unkillable’ is only the baseline for being a good ability in sorc’s minds.

Play a templar and no Sorcerer can harm you. Play a Dragonknight and no Sorcerer can harm you.
Other classes excel at countering the entire Sorcerer strategy. Purge, Scales etc.

You are delusional if you think that Sorcerer is above other classes. It was at one point and that was 3 years ago.

Dracane wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Streak is the last good ability Sorcerer has left. Everything else was overnerfed.
And in pvp, Streak is not even the issue. Most Sorcerers use Ball of Lightning, which is truly overperforming.
Purges you of roots and slows and grants you immortality against all ranged magicka builds by absorbing projectiles.

Be glad of those few using streak still. At least you can kill those.
Also; if Zenimax wants to force Sorcerers into melee range with this, then that is absolutely fine. Sorcerer is not suited to be in melee range, yet that is where Streak is usable offensively. So it is good they have something for this situation.

And oh gods! It is but a stun. Break free from it and be done with it. The Sorcerer needs a moment to turn around after streaking through you to follow up with crystal shard or something else. By that time any decent play has already broken free. And curse and meteor alone have never killed anyone on their own.

Posts like this... wow. You should really try playing other classes sometime. Almost all sorc skills are better than other class skills across the board.

Being ‘unkillable’ is only the baseline for being a good ability in sorc’s minds.

Play a templar and no Sorcerer can harm you. Play a Dragonknight and no Sorcerer can harm you.
Other classes excel at countering the entire Sorcerer strategy. Purge, Scales etc.

You are delusional if you think that Sorcerer is above other classes. It was at one point and that was 3 years ago.

Do yourself a favour and switch classes. If you actually think that you aren’t playing a sorc well, and playing other classes will make you a better player.

Sorc’s main issue is it’s filled with players who’ve only played a sorc and have no perspective. No one in their right mind who’s played multiple classes thinks sorcs are weak.

Also no one who play other class will Say mág sorc is op om current patch

Yes, magsorc is not OP. It is top-tier class sharing this position with magplar, stamplar, stamden and stamcro. Thus, there is no necessity to nerf streak or sorc. There is necessity to buff/tweak other 7 specs.

Sorc is slightly below top tier. It appears stronger since it's easier to avoid confrontation with top tiers, but a magsorc committing to a fight with stamplar and even stamcro/stamDK will lose if both players are about same skill. Magsorc can't deliver enough constant pressure to crack the current meta tank builds to be top tier.

If magsorc keeps shields up he can tank through onslaught combo. So any fight turns into attrition duel and streak makes this attrition duel pretty hard for classes which lack ranged pressure or unblockable stuns, i.e. first of all stamplar. I play stamDK and stamplar, on stamDK I'm fine with magsorcs because I keep fossilizing/dizzying them and they can't apply their pressure non-stop.. on stamplar I was forced to sacrifice build which I liked and slot damned S&B backbar just to be able to fight with magsorcs on even terms.

As I said many times, I don't think that nerf of streak or nerf of jabs or nerf of any other "overloaded" ability will do any good. Moving unchained perk to no-CP (i.e. making it default one for any player from level 1), could've solved many issues... or just making break free much cheaper in all modes... but I guess devs are happy that ton of players run with moderate damage, insufficient for timed burst and rely on cc spam to get kills.

IF
In noCp common shield strengh is about 8.5k ( 40k max magicka (shields doesnt scale from spell dmg))
Im quite sure you arent even able to shield onslaught itself with 8k shield not onslaught combo.. Try to use it before writing this nonsense..
And Shieldstacking is no-go for noCp sorc.. 8k magicka wasted in ( if good) 6 seconds.. With only Shieldstacking normal sorc is out of resources in half minute, not counting offensive skill cost to enemy
Keep in mind you need to have some stamina recovery for cc break / dodge so you cannot go just for magicka

I don't get it. Typical health will be ~22k + shield 8k = 30k. What build is capable of dealing 30k damage in 2-3 GCD in no-CP against PVP build? This might happen only if majority of abilities will crit. So this is some borderline scenario when cc-pot is active (otherwise your burst is instantly cancelled by streak), AND majority of abilities will crit AND med-heavy attack stun is not blocked AND break-free didn't happen instantly so onslaught is not dodged AND sorc won't be able to block-tap matriarch heal before last execute(s) landed. That' what need to happen to kill sorc who keeps 1 shield up and is not depleted of magicka/stamina before onslaught.

Oh, shields are expensive. But using 3k+ cost gap closer to keep pressure on magsorc after each streak is not expensive? 5400 stamina drain after each unblockable streak is not expensive? Fact is that in no-CP melee build need to spend 8-9k resources to counter effects of 3-3.5k cost ability is not expensive?

Best thing magsorcs can say about fighting full melee builds in open is to say that full melee builds are powerful in towers/keeps and so magsorc naturally counters them in open and best solution against streak is not to fight magsorcs in open. Of course magsorcs who don't keep shield up die often to stamina combos... but that is class rule - shield MUST be UP. Same as vigor should be up for any stamina build.

I can assure you, if you keep using streak constantly to keep ur distance while also keeping ur shields up and while also trying to deal dmg it's gonna drain a lot more than 3.5k magicka.

She/He never play magsorc so she/he should try and then not share such bulshit.

You know.. magsorcs like you are shame on class reputation... I fought many tough solo magsorcs and talked with them afterwards and they all agree that streak is much better then BoL and that ability would be OP if there were no other powerful abilities in the game (like onslaught, ritual, shalks, new blastbones etc).
All the magsorc drama is L2P issue now... class was easy before, now it requires considerable skill to play to the fullest. Thus, persons who don't want to learn just keep spamming "Neeerf jabs!", though I have no idea how you can have problems on magsorc against stamplar given that stamplar has least counters to magsorc. If you complained about stamDK or stamdens against magsorc, I can agree that those classes have direct counters... but stamplar... lol. Just keep streaking each 7-8 seconds, block TC, cast shields when stamplar is near, use dark deal after break free, keep curse up and keep spamming light attack weaved with eleweapon or force pulse and stamplars will have heavy time killing you..

I actually disagree with this. When on my sorc, a good Templar (especially a good stamplar) is perhaps my toughest counter. They can easily purge the heart of our burst combo (curse), they have a gap closer to keep streak in check, and they have some of the best consistent pressure with jabs (which is the best way to deal with shields). There might be other classes like a really tanky DK that I will have a tougher time killing solo, but I am far less worried about dying in the process.

Also, personal attacks really arent necessary, but that is just my 2 cents.

Of course everyone's experience may wary and there many ways to cancel magsorc's burst, for example Mist available to everyone does that just fine, i.e. see meteor -> mist -> burst is totally cancelled. So it will be question of lag, player reaction, current bar - etc - if streak stun will happen earlier then mist. Stamplar's Ritual is twice more expensive then curse... yeah, it will cleanse other effects too, but given that you also need to spam toppling charge (TC) there is zero chance to have enough magicka on stamplar to purge each curse. And here one of the most important points, is that if you play solo and if you want to kill people, Turn Evil with all it's downsides is still the best way because it almost guarantees onslaught hit.

Toppling charge doesn't guarantee anything... Majority of players blocks/dodges TC 80% of the time and off-balance was it's most valuable part (Which will be no more).. I slot TC exclusively because of magsorcs... why? Because every other viable spec in the game has 80% of it's damage only in melee and you can always mitigate their damage by movement and in the same time when you are doing damage against melee specs, you don't need gap closer at all, major expedition is enough. I am not saying TC is bad ability, quite the opposite, it is one of the very few gap closers worth slotting at all... but slotting gap closer is already a sacrifice.
Sorc doesn't make this sacrifice because streak is not only gap closer but also gap creator and unblockable stun. What OP says that combination of dark deal and streak allows magsorcs to have too much advantage over meta builds, if those meta builds won't adapt to fight the only ranged spec in the game... obviously main "issue" with streak is that it is unblockable.. how to fix this... imo best solution is notably decreasing cost of break free (which will helps sorcs themselves as well, when they fight against DK/NB).

P.S. about personal attack - if you check how many times that guy asked to nerf jabs (without arguments) in few days, you'll agree that he/she throws a shadow on magsorc class reputation... because vast majority of magsorcs I know are reasonable persons and so I surprised to see such behavior. Not that it matters much, but just my 2 cents too, because I am mostly for "fair play".

TC is source of stun too, isn't it?
I have no issue with that skill myself btw

As i said i agree stun from streak should be removed because right now it is simply annoying thing ( even more when you have dedicated "streaker" in enemy bg team) and sorcerer can use rune prison for stun.

But rune prison as skill itself is really lame. It has visual clue when it hits and for stun only (there isnt really any other effect on it [if you let it deal damage to you, you should quit game. ] Its expensive - 3500 magicka and dodgeable which doesnt make sense since it isnt projectile. But It should be blockable.

So now skills should get nerfed because they are annoying. Wow, just wow. Can I ask for some abilities to be nerfed or removed because I find them annoying too?

Tolino

oxygen_thief wrote: »

you forgot about shadow image and undo

Undo?

Fawn4287

oxygen_thief wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

oxygen_thief wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Streak spamming doesn't make your enemy die. Its escape tool which works as it should and as was designed. Stun should be removed but then this skill is ok.

does ok mean dead? give me at least one reason to slot stunless streak

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

meta magsorcs who don't use wrath but spam streak and dark deal

what do you mean meta? sorcs play like this since forever

You want reason? Its escape tool. Thats reason why you should use it. Defensively, not offensively

really? i will slot bol to use it defensively. streak will be absolutely useless an dead

Fawn4287 wrote: »

nothing else lets you disengage from a fight so easily, meaning there is often very little risk in taking a fight you can just turn and run from.

you forgot about shadow image and undo

Shade is pre-placed, last like 20ish seconds and has a limited range from which you can port pack to a place which in an outnumbered situation someone can camp, undo is an ultimate both of which lack a CC to actually stop Or slow the players pursuing you

Fawn4287

Anyron wrote: »

oxygen_thief wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Streak spamming doesn't make your enemy die. Its escape tool which works as it should and as was designed. Stun should be removed but then this skill is ok.

does ok mean dead? give me at least one reason to slot stunless streak

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

meta magsorcs who don't use wrath but spam streak and dark deal

what do you mean meta? sorcs play like this since forever

You want reason? Its escape tool. Thats reason why you should use it. Defensively, not offensively

Only if they change rune prison for something what is not waste of skillslot and magicka - maybe make it instant is enought - and more than few sorcs would swap it


I am using rune prison but that stun isnt what i have it for, when i am dueling. Its to get rid of enemy stam because most, if not all stambuilds rather use dodge roll several times than get that stun.

Rune prison had 1 powerful update, however the sorc combo of curse, Endless, met, cage, frag(if needed) was far too powerful, a class with such a hard hitting direct damage toolkit shouldn’t have a hard CC. People love to spam “Oh look another nerf sorc thread” without looking in to the fact that sorc has the best toolkit in the game. It has a proactive defence (hardened ward), The best burst heal (twilight matriach) which also procs minor venerability, one of the best delayed damage (curse) Skills and the easiest and fairly hard hitting procced damage ability’s (C frag) that no other class seems to get both of, combined with the best mobility (streak) and easiest Executes(endless), combined with the most OP stat conversion/regen skill That also has a heal. In no CP nothing really comes close to competing with magsorc other than maybe wardens due to the sheer number of buffs available.

Lord-Otto

Eh. Fury is really, really bad. Twilight requires two skill slots, show me another burst heal which does that. Conversion sucks up your lower and more precious resource. Curse is purgable, a big factor against templars.

oxygen_thief

Fawn4287 wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

oxygen_thief wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Streak spamming doesn't make your enemy die. Its escape tool which works as it should and as was designed. Stun should be removed but then this skill is ok.

does ok mean dead? give me at least one reason to slot stunless streak

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

meta magsorcs who don't use wrath but spam streak and dark deal

what do you mean meta? sorcs play like this since forever

You want reason? Its escape tool. Thats reason why you should use it. Defensively, not offensively

Only if they change rune prison for something what is not waste of skillslot and magicka - maybe make it instant is enought - and more than few sorcs would swap it


I am using rune prison but that stun isnt what i have it for, when i am dueling. Its to get rid of enemy stam because most, if not all stambuilds rather use dodge roll several times than get that stun.

Rune prison had 1 powerful update, however the sorc combo of curse, Endless, met, cage, frag(if needed) was far too powerful, a class with such a hard hitting direct damage toolkit shouldn’t have a hard CC. People love to spam “Oh look another nerf sorc thread” without looking in to the fact that sorc has the best toolkit in the game. It has a proactive defence (hardened ward), The best burst heal (twilight matriach) which also procs minor venerability, one of the best delayed damage (curse) Skills and the easiest and fairly hard hitting procced damage ability’s (C frag) that no other class seems to get both of, combined with the best mobility (streak) and easiest Executes(endless), combined with the most OP stat conversion/regen skill That also has a heal. In no CP nothing really comes close to competing with magsorc other than maybe wardens due to the sheer number of buffs available.

do you work as a salesman? you wont kill anyone with your op hardest hitting and easiest combo. tanky people will face it with smile

Fawn4287

oxygen_thief wrote: »

Fawn4287 wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

oxygen_thief wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Streak spamming doesn't make your enemy die. Its escape tool which works as it should and as was designed. Stun should be removed but then this skill is ok.

does ok mean dead? give me at least one reason to slot stunless streak

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

meta magsorcs who don't use wrath but spam streak and dark deal

what do you mean meta? sorcs play like this since forever

You want reason? Its escape tool. Thats reason why you should use it. Defensively, not offensively

Only if they change rune prison for something what is not waste of skillslot and magicka - maybe make it instant is enought - and more than few sorcs would swap it


I am using rune prison but that stun isnt what i have it for, when i am dueling. Its to get rid of enemy stam because most, if not all stambuilds rather use dodge roll several times than get that stun.

Rune prison had 1 powerful update, however the sorc combo of curse, Endless, met, cage, frag(if needed) was far too powerful, a class with such a hard hitting direct damage toolkit shouldn’t have a hard CC. People love to spam “Oh look another nerf sorc thread” without looking in to the fact that sorc has the best toolkit in the game. It has a proactive defence (hardened ward), The best burst heal (twilight matriach) which also procs minor venerability, one of the best delayed damage (curse) Skills and the easiest and fairly hard hitting procced damage ability’s (C frag) that no other class seems to get both of, combined with the best mobility (streak) and easiest Executes(endless), combined with the most OP stat conversion/regen skill That also has a heal. In no CP nothing really comes close to competing with magsorc other than maybe wardens due to the sheer number of buffs available.

do you work as a salesman? you wont kill anyone with your op hardest hitting and easiest combo. tanky people will face it with smile

Anyone who’s taking that you can streak circles around, besides its a medium armour meta

Fawn4287

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Eh. Fury is really, really bad. Twilight requires two skill slots, show me another burst heal which does that. Conversion sucks up your lower and more precious resource. Curse is purgable, a big factor against templars.

Twilight also does damage, applies venerability, procs pet passives, allows the use of necro and is an excellent tool to break up damage taken by line of sighting it when needed, it also lets a magsorc run sword and board, which when coupled with wards makes for a very strong set up

Lord-Otto

Fawn4287 wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Eh. Fury is really, really bad. Twilight requires two skill slots, show me another burst heal which does that. Conversion sucks up your lower and more precious resource. Curse is purgable, a big factor against templars.

Twilight also does damage, applies venerability, procs pet passives, allows the use of necro and is an excellent tool to break up damage taken by line of sighting it when needed, it also lets a magsorc run sword and board, which when coupled with wards makes for a very strong set up

It doesn't deal damage. 2k every two seconds is nothing. Shock application has a very low chance on the pet. It's delivered via the staff enchantment. The pet passives are considered in the balancing. A NB with a couple class skills has more hp than a non-pet sorc. This means pet passive isn't a bonus, NOT having the passive is a malus. And when you get targeted by two people, the pet won't break damage - IT (the pet) will break, taking Necropotence with it.

MartiniDaniels

pieratsos wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Streak is the last good ability Sorcerer has left. Everything else was overnerfed.
And in pvp, Streak is not even the issue. Most Sorcerers use Ball of Lightning, which is truly overperforming.
Purges you of roots and slows and grants you immortality against all ranged magicka builds by absorbing projectiles.

Be glad of those few using streak still. At least you can kill those.
Also; if Zenimax wants to force Sorcerers into melee range with this, then that is absolutely fine. Sorcerer is not suited to be in melee range, yet that is where Streak is usable offensively. So it is good they have something for this situation.

And oh gods! It is but a stun. Break free from it and be done with it. The Sorcerer needs a moment to turn around after streaking through you to follow up with crystal shard or something else. By that time any decent play has already broken free. And curse and meteor alone have never killed anyone on their own.

Posts like this... wow. You should really try playing other classes sometime. Almost all sorc skills are better than other class skills across the board.

Being ‘unkillable’ is only the baseline for being a good ability in sorc’s minds.

Play a templar and no Sorcerer can harm you. Play a Dragonknight and no Sorcerer can harm you.
Other classes excel at countering the entire Sorcerer strategy. Purge, Scales etc.

You are delusional if you think that Sorcerer is above other classes. It was at one point and that was 3 years ago.

Dracane wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Streak is the last good ability Sorcerer has left. Everything else was overnerfed.
And in pvp, Streak is not even the issue. Most Sorcerers use Ball of Lightning, which is truly overperforming.
Purges you of roots and slows and grants you immortality against all ranged magicka builds by absorbing projectiles.

Be glad of those few using streak still. At least you can kill those.
Also; if Zenimax wants to force Sorcerers into melee range with this, then that is absolutely fine. Sorcerer is not suited to be in melee range, yet that is where Streak is usable offensively. So it is good they have something for this situation.

And oh gods! It is but a stun. Break free from it and be done with it. The Sorcerer needs a moment to turn around after streaking through you to follow up with crystal shard or something else. By that time any decent play has already broken free. And curse and meteor alone have never killed anyone on their own.

Posts like this... wow. You should really try playing other classes sometime. Almost all sorc skills are better than other class skills across the board.

Being ‘unkillable’ is only the baseline for being a good ability in sorc’s minds.

Play a templar and no Sorcerer can harm you. Play a Dragonknight and no Sorcerer can harm you.
Other classes excel at countering the entire Sorcerer strategy. Purge, Scales etc.

You are delusional if you think that Sorcerer is above other classes. It was at one point and that was 3 years ago.

Do yourself a favour and switch classes. If you actually think that you aren’t playing a sorc well, and playing other classes will make you a better player.

Sorc’s main issue is it’s filled with players who’ve only played a sorc and have no perspective. No one in their right mind who’s played multiple classes thinks sorcs are weak.

Also no one who play other class will Say mág sorc is op om current patch

Yes, magsorc is not OP. It is top-tier class sharing this position with magplar, stamplar, stamden and stamcro. Thus, there is no necessity to nerf streak or sorc. There is necessity to buff/tweak other 7 specs.

Sorc is slightly below top tier. It appears stronger since it's easier to avoid confrontation with top tiers, but a magsorc committing to a fight with stamplar and even stamcro/stamDK will lose if both players are about same skill. Magsorc can't deliver enough constant pressure to crack the current meta tank builds to be top tier.

If magsorc keeps shields up he can tank through onslaught combo. So any fight turns into attrition duel and streak makes this attrition duel pretty hard for classes which lack ranged pressure or unblockable stuns, i.e. first of all stamplar. I play stamDK and stamplar, on stamDK I'm fine with magsorcs because I keep fossilizing/dizzying them and they can't apply their pressure non-stop.. on stamplar I was forced to sacrifice build which I liked and slot damned S&B backbar just to be able to fight with magsorcs on even terms.

As I said many times, I don't think that nerf of streak or nerf of jabs or nerf of any other "overloaded" ability will do any good. Moving unchained perk to no-CP (i.e. making it default one for any player from level 1), could've solved many issues... or just making break free much cheaper in all modes... but I guess devs are happy that ton of players run with moderate damage, insufficient for timed burst and rely on cc spam to get kills.

IF
In noCp common shield strengh is about 8.5k ( 40k max magicka (shields doesnt scale from spell dmg))
Im quite sure you arent even able to shield onslaught itself with 8k shield not onslaught combo.. Try to use it before writing this nonsense..
And Shieldstacking is no-go for noCp sorc.. 8k magicka wasted in ( if good) 6 seconds.. With only Shieldstacking normal sorc is out of resources in half minute, not counting offensive skill cost to enemy
Keep in mind you need to have some stamina recovery for cc break / dodge so you cannot go just for magicka

I don't get it. Typical health will be ~22k + shield 8k = 30k. What build is capable of dealing 30k damage in 2-3 GCD in no-CP against PVP build? This might happen only if majority of abilities will crit. So this is some borderline scenario when cc-pot is active (otherwise your burst is instantly cancelled by streak), AND majority of abilities will crit AND med-heavy attack stun is not blocked AND break-free didn't happen instantly so onslaught is not dodged AND sorc won't be able to block-tap matriarch heal before last execute(s) landed. That' what need to happen to kill sorc who keeps 1 shield up and is not depleted of magicka/stamina before onslaught.

Oh, shields are expensive. But using 3k+ cost gap closer to keep pressure on magsorc after each streak is not expensive? 5400 stamina drain after each unblockable streak is not expensive? Fact is that in no-CP melee build need to spend 8-9k resources to counter effects of 3-3.5k cost ability is not expensive?

Best thing magsorcs can say about fighting full melee builds in open is to say that full melee builds are powerful in towers/keeps and so magsorc naturally counters them in open and best solution against streak is not to fight magsorcs in open. Of course magsorcs who don't keep shield up die often to stamina combos... but that is class rule - shield MUST be UP. Same as vigor should be up for any stamina build.

I can assure you, if you keep using streak constantly to keep ur distance while also keeping ur shields up and while also trying to deal dmg it's gonna drain a lot more than 3.5k magicka.

Streak cooldown is 4 seconds. CC-immunity cooldown is 7 seconds. I absolutely don't see why you should streak several times "to keep distance" one streak+stun+ movement already puts you far enough to require gap closer use from your melee opponent. Well, bow backbar builds have natural high speed from roll-dodges so they don't require gap closer spam as full melee but they will still receive ton of damage while closing in on magsorc.

Anyway, I found combo which allows me to keep magsorcs in check on stamplar... but that combo requires sacrifices and is overkill in terms of protection/sustain against other classes. With build where I don't feel like I'm outclassed by magsorc's build, I am immortal against all other specs maybe with exception of some good stamcros...

Because u are not going to facetank 6k+ wpn dmg builds unless u are playing some seriously defensively busted sorc with capped resists protection buffs and crap like that. And no u don't need a gap closer to catch up with one streak. U can just walk up on them which also won't make ur character vulnerable during the gap closer animation.

The sorc will need to constantly keep the distance because again he doesn't want to be in melee range against ridicously high wpn dmg builds which means constant streaking keeping shields up while also attempting to be offensive in the little time he has left. And I can assure that's really really really expensive. And if he does manage to kill u while doing that well newsflash. He outplayed you and killed you. Nothing wrong with that.

I have absolutely opposite experience - on 6k WD stamplar, I can face tank typical 6k WD meta stamina build (because fight will be inside ritual), but I can't face tank typical magsorc because he will streak out ritual and damage me from distance. But this is all dependent on class... on 6k DK with same build as stamplar for I can face tank magsorc (because cauterize is mobile plus fossilize guarantees that sorc will be struggling with stamina sustain = he won't be able to convert it to magicka = perpetuum mobile streak-conversion won't be working), but I can't face tank stamplar or magplar (if I don't have major evasion).

All those "ridiculously high WD builds" have generic counters like major evasion or high mobility and both doesn't require much sacrifice. That's why BRP DW receives so much hate, because that weapon set hard-counters all the meta stambuilds because quick cloak is amazing as it is, and then we have major protection to make applying Fury burst unreliable...

Countering streak spam requires multiple sacrifices - not only 1 ability slot and/or set but also additional sustain (Which is not needed against other classes). Well, of course there is generic counter to any ranged build, including magsorc - sitting in tower, running around the rock etc...

Overall, as outcome of this thread I think that OP is completely right. Streak itself is best gap closer/unblockable stun, but that's ok. But combination of streak+conversion is broken. There are multiple global solutions to this without direct nerfs to streak or deal/conversion. Make all cast time abilities (with exception of melee spammables) interruptable always no matter what, reduce cost of break free etc..

GeorgeBlack

4k visits on a sorc topic.
Nuf said

pieratsos

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Streak is the last good ability Sorcerer has left. Everything else was overnerfed.
And in pvp, Streak is not even the issue. Most Sorcerers use Ball of Lightning, which is truly overperforming.
Purges you of roots and slows and grants you immortality against all ranged magicka builds by absorbing projectiles.

Be glad of those few using streak still. At least you can kill those.
Also; if Zenimax wants to force Sorcerers into melee range with this, then that is absolutely fine. Sorcerer is not suited to be in melee range, yet that is where Streak is usable offensively. So it is good they have something for this situation.

And oh gods! It is but a stun. Break free from it and be done with it. The Sorcerer needs a moment to turn around after streaking through you to follow up with crystal shard or something else. By that time any decent play has already broken free. And curse and meteor alone have never killed anyone on their own.

Posts like this... wow. You should really try playing other classes sometime. Almost all sorc skills are better than other class skills across the board.

Being ‘unkillable’ is only the baseline for being a good ability in sorc’s minds.

Play a templar and no Sorcerer can harm you. Play a Dragonknight and no Sorcerer can harm you.
Other classes excel at countering the entire Sorcerer strategy. Purge, Scales etc.

You are delusional if you think that Sorcerer is above other classes. It was at one point and that was 3 years ago.

Dracane wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Streak is the last good ability Sorcerer has left. Everything else was overnerfed.
And in pvp, Streak is not even the issue. Most Sorcerers use Ball of Lightning, which is truly overperforming.
Purges you of roots and slows and grants you immortality against all ranged magicka builds by absorbing projectiles.

Be glad of those few using streak still. At least you can kill those.
Also; if Zenimax wants to force Sorcerers into melee range with this, then that is absolutely fine. Sorcerer is not suited to be in melee range, yet that is where Streak is usable offensively. So it is good they have something for this situation.

And oh gods! It is but a stun. Break free from it and be done with it. The Sorcerer needs a moment to turn around after streaking through you to follow up with crystal shard or something else. By that time any decent play has already broken free. And curse and meteor alone have never killed anyone on their own.

Posts like this... wow. You should really try playing other classes sometime. Almost all sorc skills are better than other class skills across the board.

Being ‘unkillable’ is only the baseline for being a good ability in sorc’s minds.

Play a templar and no Sorcerer can harm you. Play a Dragonknight and no Sorcerer can harm you.
Other classes excel at countering the entire Sorcerer strategy. Purge, Scales etc.

You are delusional if you think that Sorcerer is above other classes. It was at one point and that was 3 years ago.

Do yourself a favour and switch classes. If you actually think that you aren’t playing a sorc well, and playing other classes will make you a better player.

Sorc’s main issue is it’s filled with players who’ve only played a sorc and have no perspective. No one in their right mind who’s played multiple classes thinks sorcs are weak.

Also no one who play other class will Say mág sorc is op om current patch

Yes, magsorc is not OP. It is top-tier class sharing this position with magplar, stamplar, stamden and stamcro. Thus, there is no necessity to nerf streak or sorc. There is necessity to buff/tweak other 7 specs.

Sorc is slightly below top tier. It appears stronger since it's easier to avoid confrontation with top tiers, but a magsorc committing to a fight with stamplar and even stamcro/stamDK will lose if both players are about same skill. Magsorc can't deliver enough constant pressure to crack the current meta tank builds to be top tier.

If magsorc keeps shields up he can tank through onslaught combo. So any fight turns into attrition duel and streak makes this attrition duel pretty hard for classes which lack ranged pressure or unblockable stuns, i.e. first of all stamplar. I play stamDK and stamplar, on stamDK I'm fine with magsorcs because I keep fossilizing/dizzying them and they can't apply their pressure non-stop.. on stamplar I was forced to sacrifice build which I liked and slot damned S&B backbar just to be able to fight with magsorcs on even terms.

As I said many times, I don't think that nerf of streak or nerf of jabs or nerf of any other "overloaded" ability will do any good. Moving unchained perk to no-CP (i.e. making it default one for any player from level 1), could've solved many issues... or just making break free much cheaper in all modes... but I guess devs are happy that ton of players run with moderate damage, insufficient for timed burst and rely on cc spam to get kills.

IF
In noCp common shield strengh is about 8.5k ( 40k max magicka (shields doesnt scale from spell dmg))
Im quite sure you arent even able to shield onslaught itself with 8k shield not onslaught combo.. Try to use it before writing this nonsense..
And Shieldstacking is no-go for noCp sorc.. 8k magicka wasted in ( if good) 6 seconds.. With only Shieldstacking normal sorc is out of resources in half minute, not counting offensive skill cost to enemy
Keep in mind you need to have some stamina recovery for cc break / dodge so you cannot go just for magicka

I don't get it. Typical health will be ~22k + shield 8k = 30k. What build is capable of dealing 30k damage in 2-3 GCD in no-CP against PVP build? This might happen only if majority of abilities will crit. So this is some borderline scenario when cc-pot is active (otherwise your burst is instantly cancelled by streak), AND majority of abilities will crit AND med-heavy attack stun is not blocked AND break-free didn't happen instantly so onslaught is not dodged AND sorc won't be able to block-tap matriarch heal before last execute(s) landed. That' what need to happen to kill sorc who keeps 1 shield up and is not depleted of magicka/stamina before onslaught.

Oh, shields are expensive. But using 3k+ cost gap closer to keep pressure on magsorc after each streak is not expensive? 5400 stamina drain after each unblockable streak is not expensive? Fact is that in no-CP melee build need to spend 8-9k resources to counter effects of 3-3.5k cost ability is not expensive?

Best thing magsorcs can say about fighting full melee builds in open is to say that full melee builds are powerful in towers/keeps and so magsorc naturally counters them in open and best solution against streak is not to fight magsorcs in open. Of course magsorcs who don't keep shield up die often to stamina combos... but that is class rule - shield MUST be UP. Same as vigor should be up for any stamina build.

I can assure you, if you keep using streak constantly to keep ur distance while also keeping ur shields up and while also trying to deal dmg it's gonna drain a lot more than 3.5k magicka.

Streak cooldown is 4 seconds. CC-immunity cooldown is 7 seconds. I absolutely don't see why you should streak several times "to keep distance" one streak+stun+ movement already puts you far enough to require gap closer use from your melee opponent. Well, bow backbar builds have natural high speed from roll-dodges so they don't require gap closer spam as full melee but they will still receive ton of damage while closing in on magsorc.

Anyway, I found combo which allows me to keep magsorcs in check on stamplar... but that combo requires sacrifices and is overkill in terms of protection/sustain against other classes. With build where I don't feel like I'm outclassed by magsorc's build, I am immortal against all other specs maybe with exception of some good stamcros...

Because u are not going to facetank 6k+ wpn dmg builds unless u are playing some seriously defensively busted sorc with capped resists protection buffs and crap like that. And no u don't need a gap closer to catch up with one streak. U can just walk up on them which also won't make ur character vulnerable during the gap closer animation.

The sorc will need to constantly keep the distance because again he doesn't want to be in melee range against ridicously high wpn dmg builds which means constant streaking keeping shields up while also attempting to be offensive in the little time he has left. And I can assure that's really really really expensive. And if he does manage to kill u while doing that well newsflash. He outplayed you and killed you. Nothing wrong with that.

I have absolutely opposite experience - on 6k WD stamplar, I can face tank typical 6k WD meta stamina build (because fight will be inside ritual), but I can't face tank typical magsorc because he will streak out ritual and damage me from distance. But this is all dependent on class... on 6k DK with same build as stamplar for I can face tank magsorc (because cauterize is mobile plus fossilize guarantees that sorc will be struggling with stamina sustain = he won't be able to convert it to magicka = perpetuum mobile streak-conversion won't be working), but I can't face tank stamplar or magplar (if I don't have major evasion).

All those "ridiculously high WD builds" have generic counters like major evasion or high mobility and both doesn't require much sacrifice. That's why BRP DW receives so much hate, because that weapon set hard-counters all the meta stambuilds because quick cloak is amazing as it is, and then we have major protection to make applying Fury burst unreliable...

Countering streak spam requires multiple sacrifices - not only 1 ability slot and/or set but also additional sustain (Which is not needed against other classes). Well, of course there is generic counter to any ranged build, including magsorc - sitting in tower, running around the rock etc...

Overall, as outcome of this thread I think that OP is completely right. Streak itself is best gap closer/unblockable stun, but that's ok. But combination of streak+conversion is broken. There are multiple global solutions to this without direct nerfs to streak or deal/conversion. Make all cast time abilities (with exception of melee spammables) interruptable always no matter what, reduce cost of break free etc..

And streak spam itself requires sacrifices because it gets expensive fast. You shouldnt be dying to streak/conversion spam because the sorc will barely have time to attack you. Hell, you don't even need to cc break the streak if that is all the sorc is doing cause by the time he finishes his streak and conversion u will be already up without having to cc break.

If some sorc is constantly kiting u with streak, keep shields up and still managing to kill you then he outplayed you. Period. Spreading misinformation how he spent no resources to do that just so u can feel better and excuse ur loss won't make it true.

Ur stamplar can purge curse and u have a ranged cc. Be more careful when fighting a good sorc. Most people dying to sorcs is because they get overzealous spamming gap closers blowing their resources and not minding their defence and then they complain why the burst class is bursting them.

Iskiab

Hey! Don’t hate on petsorc.

For high damage sorcs it might not be best, but if you want to mix in healing the matriarch is awesome.

MartiniDaniels

pieratsos wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Streak is the last good ability Sorcerer has left. Everything else was overnerfed.
And in pvp, Streak is not even the issue. Most Sorcerers use Ball of Lightning, which is truly overperforming.
Purges you of roots and slows and grants you immortality against all ranged magicka builds by absorbing projectiles.

Be glad of those few using streak still. At least you can kill those.
Also; if Zenimax wants to force Sorcerers into melee range with this, then that is absolutely fine. Sorcerer is not suited to be in melee range, yet that is where Streak is usable offensively. So it is good they have something for this situation.

And oh gods! It is but a stun. Break free from it and be done with it. The Sorcerer needs a moment to turn around after streaking through you to follow up with crystal shard or something else. By that time any decent play has already broken free. And curse and meteor alone have never killed anyone on their own.

Posts like this... wow. You should really try playing other classes sometime. Almost all sorc skills are better than other class skills across the board.

Being ‘unkillable’ is only the baseline for being a good ability in sorc’s minds.

Play a templar and no Sorcerer can harm you. Play a Dragonknight and no Sorcerer can harm you.
Other classes excel at countering the entire Sorcerer strategy. Purge, Scales etc.

You are delusional if you think that Sorcerer is above other classes. It was at one point and that was 3 years ago.

Dracane wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Streak is the last good ability Sorcerer has left. Everything else was overnerfed.
And in pvp, Streak is not even the issue. Most Sorcerers use Ball of Lightning, which is truly overperforming.
Purges you of roots and slows and grants you immortality against all ranged magicka builds by absorbing projectiles.

Be glad of those few using streak still. At least you can kill those.
Also; if Zenimax wants to force Sorcerers into melee range with this, then that is absolutely fine. Sorcerer is not suited to be in melee range, yet that is where Streak is usable offensively. So it is good they have something for this situation.

And oh gods! It is but a stun. Break free from it and be done with it. The Sorcerer needs a moment to turn around after streaking through you to follow up with crystal shard or something else. By that time any decent play has already broken free. And curse and meteor alone have never killed anyone on their own.

Posts like this... wow. You should really try playing other classes sometime. Almost all sorc skills are better than other class skills across the board.

Being ‘unkillable’ is only the baseline for being a good ability in sorc’s minds.

Play a templar and no Sorcerer can harm you. Play a Dragonknight and no Sorcerer can harm you.
Other classes excel at countering the entire Sorcerer strategy. Purge, Scales etc.

You are delusional if you think that Sorcerer is above other classes. It was at one point and that was 3 years ago.

Do yourself a favour and switch classes. If you actually think that you aren’t playing a sorc well, and playing other classes will make you a better player.

Sorc’s main issue is it’s filled with players who’ve only played a sorc and have no perspective. No one in their right mind who’s played multiple classes thinks sorcs are weak.

Also no one who play other class will Say mág sorc is op om current patch

Yes, magsorc is not OP. It is top-tier class sharing this position with magplar, stamplar, stamden and stamcro. Thus, there is no necessity to nerf streak or sorc. There is necessity to buff/tweak other 7 specs.

Sorc is slightly below top tier. It appears stronger since it's easier to avoid confrontation with top tiers, but a magsorc committing to a fight with stamplar and even stamcro/stamDK will lose if both players are about same skill. Magsorc can't deliver enough constant pressure to crack the current meta tank builds to be top tier.

If magsorc keeps shields up he can tank through onslaught combo. So any fight turns into attrition duel and streak makes this attrition duel pretty hard for classes which lack ranged pressure or unblockable stuns, i.e. first of all stamplar. I play stamDK and stamplar, on stamDK I'm fine with magsorcs because I keep fossilizing/dizzying them and they can't apply their pressure non-stop.. on stamplar I was forced to sacrifice build which I liked and slot damned S&B backbar just to be able to fight with magsorcs on even terms.

As I said many times, I don't think that nerf of streak or nerf of jabs or nerf of any other "overloaded" ability will do any good. Moving unchained perk to no-CP (i.e. making it default one for any player from level 1), could've solved many issues... or just making break free much cheaper in all modes... but I guess devs are happy that ton of players run with moderate damage, insufficient for timed burst and rely on cc spam to get kills.

IF
In noCp common shield strengh is about 8.5k ( 40k max magicka (shields doesnt scale from spell dmg))
Im quite sure you arent even able to shield onslaught itself with 8k shield not onslaught combo.. Try to use it before writing this nonsense..
And Shieldstacking is no-go for noCp sorc.. 8k magicka wasted in ( if good) 6 seconds.. With only Shieldstacking normal sorc is out of resources in half minute, not counting offensive skill cost to enemy
Keep in mind you need to have some stamina recovery for cc break / dodge so you cannot go just for magicka

I don't get it. Typical health will be ~22k + shield 8k = 30k. What build is capable of dealing 30k damage in 2-3 GCD in no-CP against PVP build? This might happen only if majority of abilities will crit. So this is some borderline scenario when cc-pot is active (otherwise your burst is instantly cancelled by streak), AND majority of abilities will crit AND med-heavy attack stun is not blocked AND break-free didn't happen instantly so onslaught is not dodged AND sorc won't be able to block-tap matriarch heal before last execute(s) landed. That' what need to happen to kill sorc who keeps 1 shield up and is not depleted of magicka/stamina before onslaught.

Oh, shields are expensive. But using 3k+ cost gap closer to keep pressure on magsorc after each streak is not expensive? 5400 stamina drain after each unblockable streak is not expensive? Fact is that in no-CP melee build need to spend 8-9k resources to counter effects of 3-3.5k cost ability is not expensive?

Best thing magsorcs can say about fighting full melee builds in open is to say that full melee builds are powerful in towers/keeps and so magsorc naturally counters them in open and best solution against streak is not to fight magsorcs in open. Of course magsorcs who don't keep shield up die often to stamina combos... but that is class rule - shield MUST be UP. Same as vigor should be up for any stamina build.

I can assure you, if you keep using streak constantly to keep ur distance while also keeping ur shields up and while also trying to deal dmg it's gonna drain a lot more than 3.5k magicka.

Streak cooldown is 4 seconds. CC-immunity cooldown is 7 seconds. I absolutely don't see why you should streak several times "to keep distance" one streak+stun+ movement already puts you far enough to require gap closer use from your melee opponent. Well, bow backbar builds have natural high speed from roll-dodges so they don't require gap closer spam as full melee but they will still receive ton of damage while closing in on magsorc.

Anyway, I found combo which allows me to keep magsorcs in check on stamplar... but that combo requires sacrifices and is overkill in terms of protection/sustain against other classes. With build where I don't feel like I'm outclassed by magsorc's build, I am immortal against all other specs maybe with exception of some good stamcros...

Because u are not going to facetank 6k+ wpn dmg builds unless u are playing some seriously defensively busted sorc with capped resists protection buffs and crap like that. And no u don't need a gap closer to catch up with one streak. U can just walk up on them which also won't make ur character vulnerable during the gap closer animation.

The sorc will need to constantly keep the distance because again he doesn't want to be in melee range against ridicously high wpn dmg builds which means constant streaking keeping shields up while also attempting to be offensive in the little time he has left. And I can assure that's really really really expensive. And if he does manage to kill u while doing that well newsflash. He outplayed you and killed you. Nothing wrong with that.

I have absolutely opposite experience - on 6k WD stamplar, I can face tank typical 6k WD meta stamina build (because fight will be inside ritual), but I can't face tank typical magsorc because he will streak out ritual and damage me from distance. But this is all dependent on class... on 6k DK with same build as stamplar for I can face tank magsorc (because cauterize is mobile plus fossilize guarantees that sorc will be struggling with stamina sustain = he won't be able to convert it to magicka = perpetuum mobile streak-conversion won't be working), but I can't face tank stamplar or magplar (if I don't have major evasion).

All those "ridiculously high WD builds" have generic counters like major evasion or high mobility and both doesn't require much sacrifice. That's why BRP DW receives so much hate, because that weapon set hard-counters all the meta stambuilds because quick cloak is amazing as it is, and then we have major protection to make applying Fury burst unreliable...

Countering streak spam requires multiple sacrifices - not only 1 ability slot and/or set but also additional sustain (Which is not needed against other classes). Well, of course there is generic counter to any ranged build, including magsorc - sitting in tower, running around the rock etc...

Overall, as outcome of this thread I think that OP is completely right. Streak itself is best gap closer/unblockable stun, but that's ok. But combination of streak+conversion is broken. There are multiple global solutions to this without direct nerfs to streak or deal/conversion. Make all cast time abilities (with exception of melee spammables) interruptable always no matter what, reduce cost of break free etc..

And streak spam itself requires sacrifices because it gets expensive fast. You shouldnt be dying to streak/conversion spam because the sorc will barely have time to attack you. Hell, you don't even need to cc break the streak if that is all the sorc is doing cause by the time he finishes his streak and conversion u will be already up without having to cc break.

If some sorc is constantly kiting u with streak, keep shields up and still managing to kill you then he outplayed you. Period. Spreading misinformation how he spent no resources to do that just so u can feel better and excuse ur loss won't make it true.

Ur stamplar can purge curse and u have a ranged cc. Be more careful when fighting a good sorc. Most people dying to sorcs is because they get overzealous spamming gap closers blowing their resources and not minding their defence and then they complain why the burst class is bursting them.

1. Under streak spam I mean using it on cc-immunity cooldown to drain opponent's resources
2. I'm not dying to this builds anymore because I sacrificed 2 jewelry enchants for recovery and now I can dance with this sorcs for 10minutes into stalemate, while over-sustaining against all other builds
3. "you don't even need to break free"... lol are you serious? if you don't break free it is GG against any competent player.
4. I didn't spread misinformation. Multiple people in this thread agreed with OP, i.e. they experience the same.
5. Purging curse is at least twice more expensive then curse and you can't afford to spam 4.8k magicka ability on stam build
6. Ranged cc - are you serious? 3k stamina for thing which will be blocked if not used in close proximity? Against competent players jav works only in melee range, otherwise it is blocked
7. Be more careful - yeah - run around the rock while onslaught is charging - this works. But you know sitting in LOS is BM in 1v1

Lord-Otto

Oh, the horrors of sacrificing jewelry enchants to recovery! Says it all. You're not even aware of how good you have it. Magsorcs have been running with two or three recovery enchants for a very long time now. And still need to spam Conversion. But right, nerf that! xD Do you guys ever actually look at other classes? Do you know what they are dealing with? Sure doesn't read like it.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

I just watched a video by a guy named nirnstorm where he fought a magsorc on his magDK and he had a streak counter in the top left. He eventually won after a very long battle, the enemy magsorc streaked a total of 65 times lol. BuT StReAkS eXpEnSiVe!

No, i’m not saying nerf, I have a magsorc and don’t won’t ZoS to ruin it, the video was just funny to me, especially considering the OP’s topic.

Luede

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

I just watched a video by a guy named nirnstorm where he fought a magsorc on his magDK and he had a streak counter in the top left. He eventually won after a very long battle, the enemy magsorc streaked a total of 65 times lol. BuT StReAkS eXpEnSiVe!

No, i’m not saying nerf, I have a magsorc and don’t won’t ZoS to ruin it, the video was just funny to me, especially considering the OP’s topic.

yeah, skills are often used in long fights, i dont see ur point.

MartiniDaniels

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Oh, the horrors of sacrificing jewelry enchants to recovery! Says it all. You're not even aware of how good you have it. Magsorcs have been running with two or three recovery enchants for a very long time now. And still need to spam Conversion. But right, nerf that! xD Do you guys ever actually look at other classes? Do you know what they are dealing with? Sure doesn't read like it.

I think if 1500-1700 recovery is enough against all specs and against sorc you need 2500, problem is with sorc and not with other specs. But again - I am against streak nerf. Just drop break free cost across the board, so stuns will be tools to deliver burst and not to drain resources.

Joy_Division

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

I just watched a video by a guy named nirnstorm where he fought a magsorc on his magDK and he had a streak counter in the top left. He eventually won after a very long battle, the enemy magsorc streaked a total of 65 times lol. BuT StReAkS eXpEnSiVe!

No, i’m not saying nerf, I have a magsorc and don’t won’t ZoS to ruin it, the video was just funny to me, especially considering the OP’s topic.

If the sorc streaked 65 times and lost, then that obviously means the ability is inadequate and needs a buff

deepseamk20b14_ESO

Luede wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

I just watched a video by a guy named nirnstorm where he fought a magsorc on his magDK and he had a streak counter in the top left. He eventually won after a very long battle, the enemy magsorc streaked a total of 65 times lol. BuT StReAkS eXpEnSiVe!

No, i’m not saying nerf, I have a magsorc and don’t won’t ZoS to ruin it, the video was just funny to me, especially considering the OP’s topic.

yeah, skills are often used in long fights, i dont see ur point.

My point is it was a funny video and that described what OP is talking about in a joking way. Mmmm, Sense of humor you lack.