Streak and convert spamming is a huge issue plaguing this game

Iskiab

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Oh, the horrors of sacrificing jewelry enchants to recovery! Says it all. You're not even aware of how good you have it. Magsorcs have been running with two or three recovery enchants for a very long time now. And still need to spam Conversion. But right, nerf that! xD Do you guys ever actually look at other classes? Do you know what they are dealing with? Sure doesn't read like it.

Sounds like you’re way over sustaining. I run my magsorc with zero recovery enchants and do fine in no-CP, I’m debating adding one but on the fence about it. My magsorc is also a wood elf.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

Joy_Division wrote: »

A good sorcerer should not die to a templar and vice versa. The classes counter each other.

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

I just watched a video by a guy named nirnstorm where he fought a magsorc on his magDK and he had a streak counter in the top left. He eventually won after a very long battle, the enemy magsorc streaked a total of 65 times lol. BuT StReAkS eXpEnSiVe!

No, i’m not saying nerf, I have a magsorc and don’t won’t ZoS to ruin it, the video was just funny to me, especially considering the OP’s topic.

If the sorc streaked 65 times and lost, then that obviously means the ability is inadequate and needs a buff

My magsorc would not be opposed to this

Cathexis

Iskiab wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Streak is the last good ability Sorcerer has left. Everything else was overnerfed.
And in pvp, Streak is not even the issue. Most Sorcerers use Ball of Lightning, which is truly overperforming.
Purges you of roots and slows and grants you immortality against all ranged magicka builds by absorbing projectiles.

Be glad of those few using streak still. At least you can kill those.
Also; if Zenimax wants to force Sorcerers into melee range with this, then that is absolutely fine. Sorcerer is not suited to be in melee range, yet that is where Streak is usable offensively. So it is good they have something for this situation.

And oh gods! It is but a stun. Break free from it and be done with it. The Sorcerer needs a moment to turn around after streaking through you to follow up with crystal shard or something else. By that time any decent play has already broken free. And curse and meteor alone have never killed anyone on their own.

Posts like this... wow. You should really try playing other classes sometime. Almost all sorc skills are better than other class skills across the board.

Being ‘unkillable’ is only the baseline for being a good ability in sorc’s minds.

You do understand that most class abilities are significantly stronger numerically across the board for every other class right.

Iskiab

Cathexis wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Streak is the last good ability Sorcerer has left. Everything else was overnerfed.
And in pvp, Streak is not even the issue. Most Sorcerers use Ball of Lightning, which is truly overperforming.
Purges you of roots and slows and grants you immortality against all ranged magicka builds by absorbing projectiles.

Be glad of those few using streak still. At least you can kill those.
Also; if Zenimax wants to force Sorcerers into melee range with this, then that is absolutely fine. Sorcerer is not suited to be in melee range, yet that is where Streak is usable offensively. So it is good they have something for this situation.

And oh gods! It is but a stun. Break free from it and be done with it. The Sorcerer needs a moment to turn around after streaking through you to follow up with crystal shard or something else. By that time any decent play has already broken free. And curse and meteor alone have never killed anyone on their own.

Posts like this... wow. You should really try playing other classes sometime. Almost all sorc skills are better than other class skills across the board.

Being ‘unkillable’ is only the baseline for being a good ability in sorc’s minds.

You do understand that most class abilities are significantly stronger numerically across the board for every other class right.

No they aren’t even close. Magsorc has:
- the best ranged spammable
- the best ranged execute
- the best magicka sustain ability
- the highest single target heal in the game
- the best escape tool in the game
- the best stun in the game

Isn’t that enough? Seriously, try playing other mag classes. The downside of sorc is squishiness.

kyle.wilson

Fawn4287 wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Streak has a 33% per cast penalty, not 50%

Wow ridiculous, no wonder I see people spam it 4 times in a row like its nothing

And that penalty stacks, so after about 4 times they are out of magicka, unless they have a lot of magicka or insane regen. I stopped playing my mag-sorc more because of the hard cc/freezing skill bar I was getting when streaking.

kyle.wilson

Iskiab wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Streak is the last good ability Sorcerer has left. Everything else was overnerfed.
And in pvp, Streak is not even the issue. Most Sorcerers use Ball of Lightning, which is truly overperforming.
Purges you of roots and slows and grants you immortality against all ranged magicka builds by absorbing projectiles.

Be glad of those few using streak still. At least you can kill those.
Also; if Zenimax wants to force Sorcerers into melee range with this, then that is absolutely fine. Sorcerer is not suited to be in melee range, yet that is where Streak is usable offensively. So it is good they have something for this situation.

And oh gods! It is but a stun. Break free from it and be done with it. The Sorcerer needs a moment to turn around after streaking through you to follow up with crystal shard or something else. By that time any decent play has already broken free. And curse and meteor alone have never killed anyone on their own.

Posts like this... wow. You should really try playing other classes sometime. Almost all sorc skills are better than other class skills across the board.

Being ‘unkillable’ is only the baseline for being a good ability in sorc’s minds.

You do understand that most class abilities are significantly stronger numerically across the board for every other class right.

No they aren’t even close. Magsorc has:
- the best ranged spammable
- the best ranged execute
- the best magicka sustain ability
- the highest single target heal in the game
- the best escape tool in the game
- the best stun in the game

Isn’t that enough? Seriously, try playing other mag classes. The downside of sorc is squishiness.

No they aren’t even close. Magsorc has:
- the best ranged spammable, posion inject is used far more than force pulse in pvp
- the best ranged execute, executioner scales earlier and faster
- the best magicka sustain ability. My magdk has vastly better sustain than my sorcs
- the highest single target heal in the game. You do know wardens exist, right?
- the best escape tool in the game. NB stealth
- the best stun in the game. possibly, but i'd equal that with dks

If you cc a mag sorc more than twice, they usually streak away in a panic.

kyle.wilson

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

A good sorcerer should not die to a templar and vice versa. The classes counter each other.

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

I just watched a video by a guy named nirnstorm where he fought a magsorc on his magDK and he had a streak counter in the top left. He eventually won after a very long battle, the enemy magsorc streaked a total of 65 times lol. BuT StReAkS eXpEnSiVe!

No, i’m not saying nerf, I have a magsorc and don’t won’t ZoS to ruin it, the video was just funny to me, especially considering the OP’s topic.

If the sorc streaked 65 times and lost, then that obviously means the ability is inadequate and needs a buff

My magsorc would not be opposed to this

If the magsorc was chased down by the class with the lowest mobility, what good is 65 streaks?

Iskiab

kyle.wilson wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Streak is the last good ability Sorcerer has left. Everything else was overnerfed.
And in pvp, Streak is not even the issue. Most Sorcerers use Ball of Lightning, which is truly overperforming.
Purges you of roots and slows and grants you immortality against all ranged magicka builds by absorbing projectiles.

Be glad of those few using streak still. At least you can kill those.
Also; if Zenimax wants to force Sorcerers into melee range with this, then that is absolutely fine. Sorcerer is not suited to be in melee range, yet that is where Streak is usable offensively. So it is good they have something for this situation.

And oh gods! It is but a stun. Break free from it and be done with it. The Sorcerer needs a moment to turn around after streaking through you to follow up with crystal shard or something else. By that time any decent play has already broken free. And curse and meteor alone have never killed anyone on their own.

Posts like this... wow. You should really try playing other classes sometime. Almost all sorc skills are better than other class skills across the board.

Being ‘unkillable’ is only the baseline for being a good ability in sorc’s minds.

You do understand that most class abilities are significantly stronger numerically across the board for every other class right.

No they aren’t even close. Magsorc has:
- the best ranged spammable
- the best ranged execute
- the best magicka sustain ability
- the highest single target heal in the game
- the best escape tool in the game
- the best stun in the game

Isn’t that enough? Seriously, try playing other mag classes. The downside of sorc is squishiness.

No they aren’t even close. Magsorc has:
- the best ranged spammable, posion inject is used far more than force pulse in pvp
- the best ranged execute, executioner scales earlier and faster
- the best magicka sustain ability. My magdk has vastly better sustain than my sorcs
- the highest single target heal in the game. You do know wardens exist, right?
- the best escape tool in the game. NB stealth
- the best stun in the game. possibly, but i'd equal that with dks

If you cc a mag sorc more than twice, they usually streak away in a panic.

Ranged spammable: frag
Ranged execute: wrath, executioner is melee
Highest burst heal: Matriarch, the best warden burst heal is about half the matriarch’s value
Best escape: Ball of lightning is better than cloak
Best stun: fossilize is really good, but streak is AoE and unblockable.

Like I said, try playing more classes.

Dracane

Regarding that oh so deadly Sorcerer burst combo.
It appears that stamina players have no trouble achieving infinite tankiness, infinite sustain and ridiculous burst damage at the same time. You sacrifice nothing and have everything.

Today I went out with 67k magicka and 3,8k spell damage. A fully offensive setup. No natural sustain and only a paper shield to protect me. My tooltips are through the roof and still, I only manage to kill plebs with Curse+Meteor+Streak+Fragments and elemental weapons. Rarely something crits for more than 6k on a normal player. While they burn a 17k+ ward to the ground in a second.

It is frustrating that a fully offensive magicka build can not even come close to the sheer overmight of a stamina build who has everything at the same time. It is telling that I encounter nothing but stamina Wardens, Necromancers and Dragonknights. The occasional light armor Nightblade or Sorcerer is easily stomped into the dirt.

Iskiab

Dracane wrote: »

Regarding that oh so deadly Sorcerer burst combo.
It appears that stamina players have no trouble achieving infinite tankiness, infinite sustain and ridiculous burst damage at the same time. You sacrifice nothing and have everything.

Today I went out with 67k magicka and 3,8k spell damage. A fully offensive setup. No natural sustain and only a paper shield to protect me. My tooltips are through the roof and still, I only manage to kill plebs with Curse+Meteor+Streak+Fragments and elemental weapons. Rarely something crits for more than 6k on a normal player. While they burn a 17k+ ward to the ground in a second.

It is frustrating that a fully offensive magicka build can not even come close to the sheer overmight of a stamina build who has everything at the same time. It is telling that I encounter nothing but stamina Wardens, Necromancers and Dragonknights. The occasional light armor Nightblade or Sorcerer is easily stomped into the dirt.

Yea, too true. That’s why sorc isn’t OP imo.

Stam are the undisputed kings of 1v1s, and it’s worse in CP pvp imo because of off balance plus exploiter.

Mag doesn’t shine until any sort of teamwork’s involved, because most stam bring their 1v1 specs to every setting so offer nothing to groups. Magsorcs and Magwardens can compete 1v1 against a good stam player, but that’s it really.

Juhasow

Joy_Division wrote: »

I find a good nerf sorc thread as amusing as the next person, but can we please wait until they are at least meta before making them?

Also the flip-flopping cycle of nerf and buff has got to have the devs confused. The community didn't like sorcs spamming CCs and burst damage from 41 meters away, so it was proposed that a Streak stun ought to be unblockable to match other classes unshockable CCs and it would encourage a sorc to play aggressive and in close quarters. Now that's too much, so instead I guess we want the sorcs fighting from 41 meters away again and picking the Ball of Lighting morph which encourages the very cowardly style that we supposedly dislike?

Or they could just make rune cage usefull stun once again but in close quaters like up to 15 meters and make is less potent then it was at prime time. Then they could tweak streak. The main problem with streak atm is that it's AoE unblockable , undodgable stun and gap closer , escapability tool and some bit of damage all at the same time plus it got cheaper to spam. Overloading abilities with too many goodies makes them problematic to balance. Same happened to old rune cage.

Carespanker

Make streak stun an off-balance!

pieratsos

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Streak is the last good ability Sorcerer has left. Everything else was overnerfed.
And in pvp, Streak is not even the issue. Most Sorcerers use Ball of Lightning, which is truly overperforming.
Purges you of roots and slows and grants you immortality against all ranged magicka builds by absorbing projectiles.

Be glad of those few using streak still. At least you can kill those.
Also; if Zenimax wants to force Sorcerers into melee range with this, then that is absolutely fine. Sorcerer is not suited to be in melee range, yet that is where Streak is usable offensively. So it is good they have something for this situation.

And oh gods! It is but a stun. Break free from it and be done with it. The Sorcerer needs a moment to turn around after streaking through you to follow up with crystal shard or something else. By that time any decent play has already broken free. And curse and meteor alone have never killed anyone on their own.

Posts like this... wow. You should really try playing other classes sometime. Almost all sorc skills are better than other class skills across the board.

Being ‘unkillable’ is only the baseline for being a good ability in sorc’s minds.

Play a templar and no Sorcerer can harm you. Play a Dragonknight and no Sorcerer can harm you.
Other classes excel at countering the entire Sorcerer strategy. Purge, Scales etc.

You are delusional if you think that Sorcerer is above other classes. It was at one point and that was 3 years ago.

Dracane wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Streak is the last good ability Sorcerer has left. Everything else was overnerfed.
And in pvp, Streak is not even the issue. Most Sorcerers use Ball of Lightning, which is truly overperforming.
Purges you of roots and slows and grants you immortality against all ranged magicka builds by absorbing projectiles.

Be glad of those few using streak still. At least you can kill those.
Also; if Zenimax wants to force Sorcerers into melee range with this, then that is absolutely fine. Sorcerer is not suited to be in melee range, yet that is where Streak is usable offensively. So it is good they have something for this situation.

And oh gods! It is but a stun. Break free from it and be done with it. The Sorcerer needs a moment to turn around after streaking through you to follow up with crystal shard or something else. By that time any decent play has already broken free. And curse and meteor alone have never killed anyone on their own.

Posts like this... wow. You should really try playing other classes sometime. Almost all sorc skills are better than other class skills across the board.

Being ‘unkillable’ is only the baseline for being a good ability in sorc’s minds.

Play a templar and no Sorcerer can harm you. Play a Dragonknight and no Sorcerer can harm you.
Other classes excel at countering the entire Sorcerer strategy. Purge, Scales etc.

You are delusional if you think that Sorcerer is above other classes. It was at one point and that was 3 years ago.

Do yourself a favour and switch classes. If you actually think that you aren’t playing a sorc well, and playing other classes will make you a better player.

Sorc’s main issue is it’s filled with players who’ve only played a sorc and have no perspective. No one in their right mind who’s played multiple classes thinks sorcs are weak.

Also no one who play other class will Say mág sorc is op om current patch

Yes, magsorc is not OP. It is top-tier class sharing this position with magplar, stamplar, stamden and stamcro. Thus, there is no necessity to nerf streak or sorc. There is necessity to buff/tweak other 7 specs.

Sorc is slightly below top tier. It appears stronger since it's easier to avoid confrontation with top tiers, but a magsorc committing to a fight with stamplar and even stamcro/stamDK will lose if both players are about same skill. Magsorc can't deliver enough constant pressure to crack the current meta tank builds to be top tier.

If magsorc keeps shields up he can tank through onslaught combo. So any fight turns into attrition duel and streak makes this attrition duel pretty hard for classes which lack ranged pressure or unblockable stuns, i.e. first of all stamplar. I play stamDK and stamplar, on stamDK I'm fine with magsorcs because I keep fossilizing/dizzying them and they can't apply their pressure non-stop.. on stamplar I was forced to sacrifice build which I liked and slot damned S&B backbar just to be able to fight with magsorcs on even terms.

As I said many times, I don't think that nerf of streak or nerf of jabs or nerf of any other "overloaded" ability will do any good. Moving unchained perk to no-CP (i.e. making it default one for any player from level 1), could've solved many issues... or just making break free much cheaper in all modes... but I guess devs are happy that ton of players run with moderate damage, insufficient for timed burst and rely on cc spam to get kills.

IF
In noCp common shield strengh is about 8.5k ( 40k max magicka (shields doesnt scale from spell dmg))
Im quite sure you arent even able to shield onslaught itself with 8k shield not onslaught combo.. Try to use it before writing this nonsense..
And Shieldstacking is no-go for noCp sorc.. 8k magicka wasted in ( if good) 6 seconds.. With only Shieldstacking normal sorc is out of resources in half minute, not counting offensive skill cost to enemy
Keep in mind you need to have some stamina recovery for cc break / dodge so you cannot go just for magicka

I don't get it. Typical health will be ~22k + shield 8k = 30k. What build is capable of dealing 30k damage in 2-3 GCD in no-CP against PVP build? This might happen only if majority of abilities will crit. So this is some borderline scenario when cc-pot is active (otherwise your burst is instantly cancelled by streak), AND majority of abilities will crit AND med-heavy attack stun is not blocked AND break-free didn't happen instantly so onslaught is not dodged AND sorc won't be able to block-tap matriarch heal before last execute(s) landed. That' what need to happen to kill sorc who keeps 1 shield up and is not depleted of magicka/stamina before onslaught.

Oh, shields are expensive. But using 3k+ cost gap closer to keep pressure on magsorc after each streak is not expensive? 5400 stamina drain after each unblockable streak is not expensive? Fact is that in no-CP melee build need to spend 8-9k resources to counter effects of 3-3.5k cost ability is not expensive?

Best thing magsorcs can say about fighting full melee builds in open is to say that full melee builds are powerful in towers/keeps and so magsorc naturally counters them in open and best solution against streak is not to fight magsorcs in open. Of course magsorcs who don't keep shield up die often to stamina combos... but that is class rule - shield MUST be UP. Same as vigor should be up for any stamina build.

I can assure you, if you keep using streak constantly to keep ur distance while also keeping ur shields up and while also trying to deal dmg it's gonna drain a lot more than 3.5k magicka.

Streak cooldown is 4 seconds. CC-immunity cooldown is 7 seconds. I absolutely don't see why you should streak several times "to keep distance" one streak+stun+ movement already puts you far enough to require gap closer use from your melee opponent. Well, bow backbar builds have natural high speed from roll-dodges so they don't require gap closer spam as full melee but they will still receive ton of damage while closing in on magsorc.

Anyway, I found combo which allows me to keep magsorcs in check on stamplar... but that combo requires sacrifices and is overkill in terms of protection/sustain against other classes. With build where I don't feel like I'm outclassed by magsorc's build, I am immortal against all other specs maybe with exception of some good stamcros...

Because u are not going to facetank 6k+ wpn dmg builds unless u are playing some seriously defensively busted sorc with capped resists protection buffs and crap like that. And no u don't need a gap closer to catch up with one streak. U can just walk up on them which also won't make ur character vulnerable during the gap closer animation.

The sorc will need to constantly keep the distance because again he doesn't want to be in melee range against ridicously high wpn dmg builds which means constant streaking keeping shields up while also attempting to be offensive in the little time he has left. And I can assure that's really really really expensive. And if he does manage to kill u while doing that well newsflash. He outplayed you and killed you. Nothing wrong with that.

I have absolutely opposite experience - on 6k WD stamplar, I can face tank typical 6k WD meta stamina build (because fight will be inside ritual), but I can't face tank typical magsorc because he will streak out ritual and damage me from distance. But this is all dependent on class... on 6k DK with same build as stamplar for I can face tank magsorc (because cauterize is mobile plus fossilize guarantees that sorc will be struggling with stamina sustain = he won't be able to convert it to magicka = perpetuum mobile streak-conversion won't be working), but I can't face tank stamplar or magplar (if I don't have major evasion).

All those "ridiculously high WD builds" have generic counters like major evasion or high mobility and both doesn't require much sacrifice. That's why BRP DW receives so much hate, because that weapon set hard-counters all the meta stambuilds because quick cloak is amazing as it is, and then we have major protection to make applying Fury burst unreliable...

Countering streak spam requires multiple sacrifices - not only 1 ability slot and/or set but also additional sustain (Which is not needed against other classes). Well, of course there is generic counter to any ranged build, including magsorc - sitting in tower, running around the rock etc...

Overall, as outcome of this thread I think that OP is completely right. Streak itself is best gap closer/unblockable stun, but that's ok. But combination of streak+conversion is broken. There are multiple global solutions to this without direct nerfs to streak or deal/conversion. Make all cast time abilities (with exception of melee spammables) interruptable always no matter what, reduce cost of break free etc..

And streak spam itself requires sacrifices because it gets expensive fast. You shouldnt be dying to streak/conversion spam because the sorc will barely have time to attack you. Hell, you don't even need to cc break the streak if that is all the sorc is doing cause by the time he finishes his streak and conversion u will be already up without having to cc break.

If some sorc is constantly kiting u with streak, keep shields up and still managing to kill you then he outplayed you. Period. Spreading misinformation how he spent no resources to do that just so u can feel better and excuse ur loss won't make it true.

Ur stamplar can purge curse and u have a ranged cc. Be more careful when fighting a good sorc. Most people dying to sorcs is because they get overzealous spamming gap closers blowing their resources and not minding their defence and then they complain why the burst class is bursting them.

1. Under streak spam I mean using it on cc-immunity cooldown to drain opponent's resources
2. I'm not dying to this builds anymore because I sacrificed 2 jewelry enchants for recovery and now I can dance with this sorcs for 10minutes into stalemate, while over-sustaining against all other builds
3. "you don't even need to break free"... lol are you serious? if you don't break free it is GG against any competent player.
4. I didn't spread misinformation. Multiple people in this thread agreed with OP, i.e. they experience the same.
5. Purging curse is at least twice more expensive then curse and you can't afford to spam 4.8k magicka ability on stam build
6. Ranged cc - are you serious? 3k stamina for thing which will be blocked if not used in close proximity? Against competent players jav works only in melee range, otherwise it is blocked
7. Be more careful - yeah - run around the rock while onslaught is charging - this works. But you know sitting in LOS is BM in 1v1

1. CC immunity is the same for all classes. Just like u should have enough stam to cc break on cooldown other stuns the same applies for sorcs. If u don't have enough stam to cc break then get more sustain. That's not a problem with sorcs, that's ur problem. And if the sorc is only using streak on cc immunity cooldown then it shouldn't be a problem to close the gap.
2. So all it took to dance with a sorc and not die to them is get some sustain? My God, sorcs are so OP then. Funny thing is sorcs are playing sustain oriented setups with regen enchants and sets while also using dark conversion since forever. I guess welcome to their world.
3. Please read before u post. I said if the sorc is using streak into conversion then u don't even need to cc break. That was ur problem. That the sorc is streaking and then using dark conversion. Well guess what. That rotation requires some time to complete and u will be up before the sorc does anything else.
4. It's not a matter of experience. It's a matter of facts. Constantly using streak to kite while keeping shields up and trying to kill people costs a lot of resources. So yes u are spreading misinformation. Just read the tooltips to see how much they cost.
5. No need to spam it. You use it when u need it. No need to purge if u don't feel pressured. That's why I said be more careful and don't get overzealous.
6. Yes I'm serious. You use it to disrupt their combo. U got stunned u are low on resources and u feel pressured. Throw ur javelin to disrupt their combo. Again that's why I said be more careful.
7. No, be more careful as in, u need to be in control. If u get overzealous spamming gap closers blowing ur resources, letting ur buffs go down making mistakes and then dying then that's a problem with u. Again, most people dying to sorcs is because they get annoyed by the constant kiting and they do one mistake after the other. Keep cool and be in control. If you still die then I'm sorry some players are just better. Just like ur stamDK loses to stamplars then some times u are gonna lose to sorcs. Don't understand why this has to be a sorc problem.

Rikumaru

Iskiab wrote: »

kyle.wilson wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Streak is the last good ability Sorcerer has left. Everything else was overnerfed.
And in pvp, Streak is not even the issue. Most Sorcerers use Ball of Lightning, which is truly overperforming.
Purges you of roots and slows and grants you immortality against all ranged magicka builds by absorbing projectiles.

Be glad of those few using streak still. At least you can kill those.
Also; if Zenimax wants to force Sorcerers into melee range with this, then that is absolutely fine. Sorcerer is not suited to be in melee range, yet that is where Streak is usable offensively. So it is good they have something for this situation.

And oh gods! It is but a stun. Break free from it and be done with it. The Sorcerer needs a moment to turn around after streaking through you to follow up with crystal shard or something else. By that time any decent play has already broken free. And curse and meteor alone have never killed anyone on their own.

Posts like this... wow. You should really try playing other classes sometime. Almost all sorc skills are better than other class skills across the board.

Being ‘unkillable’ is only the baseline for being a good ability in sorc’s minds.

You do understand that most class abilities are significantly stronger numerically across the board for every other class right.

No they aren’t even close. Magsorc has:
- the best ranged spammable
- the best ranged execute
- the best magicka sustain ability
- the highest single target heal in the game
- the best escape tool in the game
- the best stun in the game

Isn’t that enough? Seriously, try playing other mag classes. The downside of sorc is squishiness.

No they aren’t even close. Magsorc has:
- the best ranged spammable, posion inject is used far more than force pulse in pvp
- the best ranged execute, executioner scales earlier and faster
- the best magicka sustain ability. My magdk has vastly better sustain than my sorcs
- the highest single target heal in the game. You do know wardens exist, right?
- the best escape tool in the game. NB stealth
- the best stun in the game. possibly, but i'd equal that with dks

If you cc a mag sorc more than twice, they usually streak away in a panic.

Ranged spammable: frag
Ranged execute: wrath, executioner is melee
Highest burst heal: Matriarch, the best warden burst heal is about half the matriarch’s value
Best escape: Ball of lightning is better than cloak
Best stun: fossilize is really good, but streak is AoE and unblockable.

Like I said, try playing more classes.

What? Frags isn't a spammable. Mages wrath is awful and streak / bol is about as good as cloak is. You tell others to play more classes but you clearly don't understand how sorcerer or for that matter, how the game works in general.

Joy_Division

Juhasow wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

I find a good nerf sorc thread as amusing as the next person, but can we please wait until they are at least meta before making them?

Also the flip-flopping cycle of nerf and buff has got to have the devs confused. The community didn't like sorcs spamming CCs and burst damage from 41 meters away, so it was proposed that a Streak stun ought to be unblockable to match other classes unshockable CCs and it would encourage a sorc to play aggressive and in close quarters. Now that's too much, so instead I guess we want the sorcs fighting from 41 meters away again and picking the Ball of Lighting morph which encourages the very cowardly style that we supposedly dislike?

Or they could just make rune cage usefull stun once again but in close quaters like up to 15 meters and make is less potent then it was at prime time. Then they could tweak streak. The main problem with streak atm is that it's AoE unblockable , undodgable stun and gap closer , escapability tool and some bit of damage all at the same time plus it got cheaper to spam. Overloading abilities with too many goodies makes them problematic to balance. Same happened to old rune cage.

That's not a problem. That is an interesting and impactful ability that should be the standard ZOS aspires to. People act like getting stunned is the end of the world. If you are halfway competent at this game it is not a big deal. Just CC break.
When ZOS mollycoddles players and dumbs-down the game by nerfing "overloaded" abilities, that's is precisely how we got to this boring meta where nobody dies and stuck with classes that have no identity.

Iskiab

Rikumaru wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

kyle.wilson wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Streak is the last good ability Sorcerer has left. Everything else was overnerfed.
And in pvp, Streak is not even the issue. Most Sorcerers use Ball of Lightning, which is truly overperforming.
Purges you of roots and slows and grants you immortality against all ranged magicka builds by absorbing projectiles.

Be glad of those few using streak still. At least you can kill those.
Also; if Zenimax wants to force Sorcerers into melee range with this, then that is absolutely fine. Sorcerer is not suited to be in melee range, yet that is where Streak is usable offensively. So it is good they have something for this situation.

And oh gods! It is but a stun. Break free from it and be done with it. The Sorcerer needs a moment to turn around after streaking through you to follow up with crystal shard or something else. By that time any decent play has already broken free. And curse and meteor alone have never killed anyone on their own.

Posts like this... wow. You should really try playing other classes sometime. Almost all sorc skills are better than other class skills across the board.

Being ‘unkillable’ is only the baseline for being a good ability in sorc’s minds.

You do understand that most class abilities are significantly stronger numerically across the board for every other class right.

No they aren’t even close. Magsorc has:
- the best ranged spammable
- the best ranged execute
- the best magicka sustain ability
- the highest single target heal in the game
- the best escape tool in the game
- the best stun in the game

Isn’t that enough? Seriously, try playing other mag classes. The downside of sorc is squishiness.

No they aren’t even close. Magsorc has:
- the best ranged spammable, posion inject is used far more than force pulse in pvp
- the best ranged execute, executioner scales earlier and faster
- the best magicka sustain ability. My magdk has vastly better sustain than my sorcs
- the highest single target heal in the game. You do know wardens exist, right?
- the best escape tool in the game. NB stealth
- the best stun in the game. possibly, but i'd equal that with dks

If you cc a mag sorc more than twice, they usually streak away in a panic.

Ranged spammable: frag
Ranged execute: wrath, executioner is melee
Highest burst heal: Matriarch, the best warden burst heal is about half the matriarch’s value
Best escape: Ball of lightning is better than cloak
Best stun: fossilize is really good, but streak is AoE and unblockable.

Like I said, try playing more classes.

What? Frags isn't a spammable. Mages wrath is awful and streak / bol is about as good as cloak is. You tell others to play more classes but you clearly don't understand how sorcerer or for that matter, how the game works in general.

I play a magsorc as well. I use frags as my spammable in a petsorc build.

It’s not viable for dueling, but for BGs it works fine. If you haven’t noticed dizzy and snipe both have cast times, I have no idea why sorcs think cast times makes an ability garbage, it makes an ability stronger because of the damage coming at the end of the GCD.

Most sorc issues with their class seem to be that they haven’t adapted their playstyle in a couple years and don’t test their abilities.

This thread existing should be proof enough. I had to argue with sorcs that dark conversion was a good ability along with overload. Now I see them all the time.

Joy_Division

Iskiab wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

kyle.wilson wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Streak is the last good ability Sorcerer has left. Everything else was overnerfed.
And in pvp, Streak is not even the issue. Most Sorcerers use Ball of Lightning, which is truly overperforming.
Purges you of roots and slows and grants you immortality against all ranged magicka builds by absorbing projectiles.

Be glad of those few using streak still. At least you can kill those.
Also; if Zenimax wants to force Sorcerers into melee range with this, then that is absolutely fine. Sorcerer is not suited to be in melee range, yet that is where Streak is usable offensively. So it is good they have something for this situation.

And oh gods! It is but a stun. Break free from it and be done with it. The Sorcerer needs a moment to turn around after streaking through you to follow up with crystal shard or something else. By that time any decent play has already broken free. And curse and meteor alone have never killed anyone on their own.

Posts like this... wow. You should really try playing other classes sometime. Almost all sorc skills are better than other class skills across the board.

Being ‘unkillable’ is only the baseline for being a good ability in sorc’s minds.

You do understand that most class abilities are significantly stronger numerically across the board for every other class right.

No they aren’t even close. Magsorc has:
- the best ranged spammable
- the best ranged execute
- the best magicka sustain ability
- the highest single target heal in the game
- the best escape tool in the game
- the best stun in the game

Isn’t that enough? Seriously, try playing other mag classes. The downside of sorc is squishiness.

No they aren’t even close. Magsorc has:
- the best ranged spammable, posion inject is used far more than force pulse in pvp
- the best ranged execute, executioner scales earlier and faster
- the best magicka sustain ability. My magdk has vastly better sustain than my sorcs
- the highest single target heal in the game. You do know wardens exist, right?
- the best escape tool in the game. NB stealth
- the best stun in the game. possibly, but i'd equal that with dks

If you cc a mag sorc more than twice, they usually streak away in a panic.

Ranged spammable: frag
Ranged execute: wrath, executioner is melee
Highest burst heal: Matriarch, the best warden burst heal is about half the matriarch’s value
Best escape: Ball of lightning is better than cloak
Best stun: fossilize is really good, but streak is AoE and unblockable.

Like I said, try playing more classes.

What? Frags isn't a spammable. Mages wrath is awful and streak / bol is about as good as cloak is. You tell others to play more classes but you clearly don't understand how sorcerer or for that matter, how the game works in general.

I play a magsorc as well. I use frags as my spammable in a petsorc build.

It’s not viable for dueling, but for BGs it works fine. If you haven’t noticed dizzy and snipe both have cast times, I have no idea why sorcs think cast times makes an ability garbage, it makes an ability stronger because of the damage coming at the end of the GCD.

Most sorc issues with their class seem to be that they haven’t adapted their playstyle in a couple years and don’t test their abilities.

This thread existing should be proof enough. I had to argue with sorcs that dark conversion was a good ability along with overload. Now I see them all the time.

Umm, because cast times are garbage. If something is not viable for dueling then it's too much of a burden to slot. What do you plan on doing when you're on the way to an objective and wind up in combat against an enemy along the way? Kindly whisper her to hold on until you switch up to your dueling setup?

Crystal Blast is nowhere near the potency of Dizzy Swing. I do not think I am exaggerating when I say everyone who has ever seriously tried this skill in PvP has never made an impact on the game, never has inspired someone to copy their build, never elicited the admiration of opponents.

I think I speak for most sorcerers when I say this: there have been many times I have unintentionally hard cast crystal frags because the animation for a proc is very similar to the Surge animation (which is dumb, but whatever) and against a PuG who fights like a target dummy, the skill is all right because it does act as a delayed burst as it can be immediately followed up with a light attack + fury. But it's hot garbage against anyone halfway decent who is on your ass casting Dizzy Swing or jabbing you or a Necro that drops a boneyard at your feet.

Sorcs have adapted: that's why they all got master destros when ZOS nerfed Frags and all ran Zoo builds when it buffed pets, and just about all I know did not need to be convinced Dark Conversion was a strong skill: they were all using it (I know this because they all waved their hands in my face causing me to curse ZOS's dumb changes that made abilities uninterruptible). Most don;t use Crystal Blast not because they are stuck in their ways, but because the skill is not worth slotting.

Lord-Otto

Juhasow wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

I find a good nerf sorc thread as amusing as the next person, but can we please wait until they are at least meta before making them?

Also the flip-flopping cycle of nerf and buff has got to have the devs confused. The community didn't like sorcs spamming CCs and burst damage from 41 meters away, so it was proposed that a Streak stun ought to be unblockable to match other classes unshockable CCs and it would encourage a sorc to play aggressive and in close quarters. Now that's too much, so instead I guess we want the sorcs fighting from 41 meters away again and picking the Ball of Lighting morph which encourages the very cowardly style that we supposedly dislike?

Or they could just make rune cage usefull stun once again but in close quaters like up to 15 meters and make is less potent then it was at prime time. Then they could tweak streak. The main problem with streak atm is that it's AoE unblockable , undodgable stun and gap closer , escapability tool and some bit of damage all at the same time plus it got cheaper to spam. Overloading abilities with too many goodies makes them problematic to balance. Same happened to old rune cage.

I think Streak being overloaded is to fight slot issues. You need two shields and a heal for a complete defense on sorc. Rolldodge and block need no skill slot, in comparison. Then, if you want to get your full passives, you need to slots for a pet. Slot issues have been a big pain point for sorc players for quite some time, it's documented in old threads and class rep notes from meetings. Streak being a skill every sorc in Cyro uses makes it a good candidate to save a slot and alleviate the issues a bit.
Look at my platform, console. I cannot use Streak's CC to combo a frag. I need to slot a dedicated stun, like formerly Drain and soon Clench. Best I can give up for that is my execution. So I have no execution. How is that fair? Or balanced? DKs have extra powerful DoTs because they have no execute. But now, I don't have one, neither. Should I now also get an extra powerful DoT or two?

Your suggestion is great and something that was asked for before Cage got obliterated. But it needs something else to be balanced and worth dropping a skill. If we consider Fury to also be a debuff due to its lingering properties, putting Breech on Cage (with 12m range and no delay) seems fitting to me.

ku5h

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Countering streak spam requires multiple sacrifices - not only 1 ability slot and/or set but also additional sustain (Which is not needed against other classes). Well, of course there is generic counter to any ranged build, including magsorc - sitting in tower, running around the rock etc...

.

Why? Do you have to do parkour style move while breaking Streak compared to any other CC in the game?
You've made that comment several times now and i still can't figure it out.
In any hard battle, 1v1, or big ones, you'll always be CCed on cooldown.
So again, where exactly did the Streak touch you that you have so much animosity towards it.

Hell, you should be happy your working against streak, since you know you won't be hit with any followup.
If you used this skill anytime at all, you'd know it's sub optimal CC in 1v1 scenario.

Dracane

I wonder when the stamina arsenal starts receiving ground shattering nerfs like magicka does all the time.
Remember when they basically halfed soul assaults damage and doubled the cost? Completly destroyed, useless. Anihilated without a trace of thought, care or consideration. Zenimax does not want you to use it anymore, just like they do not want you to use pets, destructive touch and many other abilities.

And it works. I have not seen a single soul assault since they completely destroyed it. Stamina needs some; it is time.

pieratsos

Iskiab wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

kyle.wilson wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Streak is the last good ability Sorcerer has left. Everything else was overnerfed.
And in pvp, Streak is not even the issue. Most Sorcerers use Ball of Lightning, which is truly overperforming.
Purges you of roots and slows and grants you immortality against all ranged magicka builds by absorbing projectiles.

Be glad of those few using streak still. At least you can kill those.
Also; if Zenimax wants to force Sorcerers into melee range with this, then that is absolutely fine. Sorcerer is not suited to be in melee range, yet that is where Streak is usable offensively. So it is good they have something for this situation.

And oh gods! It is but a stun. Break free from it and be done with it. The Sorcerer needs a moment to turn around after streaking through you to follow up with crystal shard or something else. By that time any decent play has already broken free. And curse and meteor alone have never killed anyone on their own.

Posts like this... wow. You should really try playing other classes sometime. Almost all sorc skills are better than other class skills across the board.

Being ‘unkillable’ is only the baseline for being a good ability in sorc’s minds.

You do understand that most class abilities are significantly stronger numerically across the board for every other class right.

No they aren’t even close. Magsorc has:
- the best ranged spammable
- the best ranged execute
- the best magicka sustain ability
- the highest single target heal in the game
- the best escape tool in the game
- the best stun in the game

Isn’t that enough? Seriously, try playing other mag classes. The downside of sorc is squishiness.

No they aren’t even close. Magsorc has:
- the best ranged spammable, posion inject is used far more than force pulse in pvp
- the best ranged execute, executioner scales earlier and faster
- the best magicka sustain ability. My magdk has vastly better sustain than my sorcs
- the highest single target heal in the game. You do know wardens exist, right?
- the best escape tool in the game. NB stealth
- the best stun in the game. possibly, but i'd equal that with dks

If you cc a mag sorc more than twice, they usually streak away in a panic.

Ranged spammable: frag
Ranged execute: wrath, executioner is melee
Highest burst heal: Matriarch, the best warden burst heal is about half the matriarch’s value
Best escape: Ball of lightning is better than cloak
Best stun: fossilize is really good, but streak is AoE and unblockable.

Like I said, try playing more classes.

What? Frags isn't a spammable. Mages wrath is awful and streak / bol is about as good as cloak is. You tell others to play more classes but you clearly don't understand how sorcerer or for that matter, how the game works in general.

I play a magsorc as well. I use frags as my spammable in a petsorc build.

It’s not viable for dueling, but for BGs it works fine. If you haven’t noticed dizzy and snipe both have cast times, I have no idea why sorcs think cast times makes an ability garbage, it makes an ability stronger because of the damage coming at the end of the GCD.

Most sorc issues with their class seem to be that they haven’t adapted their playstyle in a couple years and don’t test their abilities.

This thread existing should be proof enough. I had to argue with sorcs that dark conversion was a good ability along with overload. Now I see them all the time.

Crystal blast is garbage. Please refrain from saying again that it's good. Let alone the best spammable. You could literally delete every spammable from the game and any half decent sorc would still not choose to use crystal blast as a spammable.

You are not going to kill anyone decent with it and u are making urself AP pinata. Cast times in general are bad but seriously if u had to list one class, just one that cannot play with offensive cast time abilities then that is mag sorc.

Lord-Otto

Dracane wrote: »

I wonder when the stamina arsenal starts receiving ground shattering nerfs like magicka does all the time.
Remember when they basically halfed soul assaults damage and doubled the cost? Completly destroyed, useless. Anihilated without a trace of thought, care or consideration. Zenimax does not want you to use it anymore, just like they do not want you to use pets, destructive touch and many other abilities.

And it works. I have not seen a single soul assault since they completely destroyed it. Stamina needs some; it is time.

Little story:
My internet router has to reset once per day. When that happens, it disconnects me from ESO. But it doesn't do that instantaneously. Everyone but me freezes, as I'm getting no data from them. That gives me like ten or fifteen seconds to walk around and study this "snapshot" of the game. Very interesting when I'm in a big battle. Anyways, the amount of stamina weapons I see in people's hands there is staggering. Staves? Not so much. They're rare. REALLY rare. It's eye-opening when you think about it. Cyrodiil IS stamina-dominated, clearly. And not only 1v1, that's bull. Also large groups.

oxygen_thief

Lord-Otto wrote: »

I have not seen a single soul assault since they completely destroyed it. Stamina needs some; it is time.

i see it occasionally in IC. its still ok as for me. sa is cheap and has a decent damage but as a magsorc i prefer not to use it because of duration. i just cant stand still 6 sec without dodging or recasting my shield

Iskiab

Joy_Division wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

kyle.wilson wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Streak is the last good ability Sorcerer has left. Everything else was overnerfed.
And in pvp, Streak is not even the issue. Most Sorcerers use Ball of Lightning, which is truly overperforming.
Purges you of roots and slows and grants you immortality against all ranged magicka builds by absorbing projectiles.

Be glad of those few using streak still. At least you can kill those.
Also; if Zenimax wants to force Sorcerers into melee range with this, then that is absolutely fine. Sorcerer is not suited to be in melee range, yet that is where Streak is usable offensively. So it is good they have something for this situation.

And oh gods! It is but a stun. Break free from it and be done with it. The Sorcerer needs a moment to turn around after streaking through you to follow up with crystal shard or something else. By that time any decent play has already broken free. And curse and meteor alone have never killed anyone on their own.

Posts like this... wow. You should really try playing other classes sometime. Almost all sorc skills are better than other class skills across the board.

Being ‘unkillable’ is only the baseline for being a good ability in sorc’s minds.

You do understand that most class abilities are significantly stronger numerically across the board for every other class right.

No they aren’t even close. Magsorc has:
- the best ranged spammable
- the best ranged execute
- the best magicka sustain ability
- the highest single target heal in the game
- the best escape tool in the game
- the best stun in the game

Isn’t that enough? Seriously, try playing other mag classes. The downside of sorc is squishiness.

No they aren’t even close. Magsorc has:
- the best ranged spammable, posion inject is used far more than force pulse in pvp
- the best ranged execute, executioner scales earlier and faster
- the best magicka sustain ability. My magdk has vastly better sustain than my sorcs
- the highest single target heal in the game. You do know wardens exist, right?
- the best escape tool in the game. NB stealth
- the best stun in the game. possibly, but i'd equal that with dks

If you cc a mag sorc more than twice, they usually streak away in a panic.

Ranged spammable: frag
Ranged execute: wrath, executioner is melee
Highest burst heal: Matriarch, the best warden burst heal is about half the matriarch’s value
Best escape: Ball of lightning is better than cloak
Best stun: fossilize is really good, but streak is AoE and unblockable.

Like I said, try playing more classes.

What? Frags isn't a spammable. Mages wrath is awful and streak / bol is about as good as cloak is. You tell others to play more classes but you clearly don't understand how sorcerer or for that matter, how the game works in general.

I play a magsorc as well. I use frags as my spammable in a petsorc build.

It’s not viable for dueling, but for BGs it works fine. If you haven’t noticed dizzy and snipe both have cast times, I have no idea why sorcs think cast times makes an ability garbage, it makes an ability stronger because of the damage coming at the end of the GCD.

Most sorc issues with their class seem to be that they haven’t adapted their playstyle in a couple years and don’t test their abilities.

This thread existing should be proof enough. I had to argue with sorcs that dark conversion was a good ability along with overload. Now I see them all the time.

Umm, because cast times are garbage. If something is not viable for dueling then it's too much of a burden to slot. What do you plan on doing when you're on the way to an objective and wind up in combat against an enemy along the way? Kindly whisper her to hold on until you switch up to your dueling setup?

Crystal Blast is nowhere near the potency of Dizzy Swing. I do not think I am exaggerating when I say everyone who has ever seriously tried this skill in PvP has never made an impact on the game, never has inspired someone to copy their build, never elicited the admiration of opponents.

I think I speak for most sorcerers when I say this: there have been many times I have unintentionally hard cast crystal frags because the animation for a proc is very similar to the Surge animation (which is dumb, but whatever) and against a PuG who fights like a target dummy, the skill is all right because it does act as a delayed burst as it can be immediately followed up with a light attack + fury. But it's hot garbage against anyone halfway decent who is on your ass casting Dizzy Swing or jabbing you or a Necro that drops a boneyard at your feet.

Sorcs have adapted: that's why they all got master destros when ZOS nerfed Frags and all ran Zoo builds when it buffed pets, and just about all I know did not need to be convinced Dark Conversion was a strong skill: they were all using it (I know this because they all waved their hands in my face causing me to curse ZOS's dumb changes that made abilities uninterruptible). Most don;t use Crystal Blast not because they are stuck in their ways, but because the skill is not worth slotting.

I do fine 1v1 against people using frag as a spammable, I just think in a dueling setting there are better options.

I’m not the best sorc, but I do well while playing mine. I value skill economy more than having a better spammable.

I also use one shield, I don’t see a reason to use two. One with streaking out of a bind works fine.

What I don’t get is all the magsorcs saying the class is terrible but being adamant that their way of playing is the only way. If you’re doing fine on sorc then continue, but for the people saying the class is weak and not even bothering to try different things...

Like I see magsorcs with under 20k health all the time. Of course you’re going to get wrecked, and of course it has nothing to do with the class.

I also see a lot of magsorcs haven’t adapted to the shields change yet. Stacking max magicka in a glass build makes your shields weaker, not stronger, unless you’re hit with an onslaught.

MartiniDaniels

ku5h wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Countering streak spam requires multiple sacrifices - not only 1 ability slot and/or set but also additional sustain (Which is not needed against other classes). Well, of course there is generic counter to any ranged build, including magsorc - sitting in tower, running around the rock etc...

.

Why? Do you have to do parkour style move while breaking Streak compared to any other CC in the game?
You've made that comment several times now and i still can't figure it out.
In any hard battle, 1v1, or big ones, you'll always be CCed on cooldown.
So again, where exactly did the Streak touch you that you have so much animosity towards it.

Hell, you should be happy your working against streak, since you know you won't be hit with any followup.
If you used this skill anytime at all, you'd know it's sub optimal CC in 1v1 scenario.

All non-overload sorcs time streak with meteor and frags and curse explosion all landing in same GCD or 2 GCD (dependent on luck, lag or skill). Also when streak is used offensively you can land in front of target.. of course it is easier said that then done with all the position de-sync issues but streak stun radius is pretty big, 5-6m - more then real to land in front of target and still stun it.
If burst coming in same or consequent GCD is not a follow-up, then what is?

My issue that fighting in open you need not only to break free, but also to gap close (or sprint) afterwards, while sorc will have free GCD to use conversion. All of this makes resource exchange 100% beneficial to magsorc. Of course it is rock-paper-scissor situation... if build has ranged pressure then he don't need to gap close... if build has ranged interrupt, dark deal/conversion will grant a free stun. If there is LOS... but hey, if there is LOS no meta build has any chances to die at all if there will be no serious mistakes or lag/de-sync.

So you all can tell me that I'm complaining that ranged mobile build have advantage over full melee build in open space... yes, but don't tell me that sorc is weak or inferior to meta stam specs like many magsorcs claim. Fact that 6k WD stam builds can burst magsorc in 2 GCD, sorc can burst them in 2 GCD as well or simply play defensively with resource drain strategy. If sorc (or any other build/class) manage to kill me in 2-3 GCD, I will only applaud and whisper "good job, nice damage". Unfortunately it is extremely rare case, vast majority of players rely on some cheeze, glitchy stun or resource drain etc..

Lord-Otto

You're forgetting shields, Marti. You are not getting a plus for your resources by streaking away and conversing because while you're doing that, your shields expire. And they are really expensive. A smart player keeps the pressure up, forcing shieldcasts and that WILL run the sorc out of magicka.

MartiniDaniels

pieratsos wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Streak is the last good ability Sorcerer has left. Everything else was overnerfed.
And in pvp, Streak is not even the issue. Most Sorcerers use Ball of Lightning, which is truly overperforming.
Purges you of roots and slows and grants you immortality against all ranged magicka builds by absorbing projectiles.

Be glad of those few using streak still. At least you can kill those.
Also; if Zenimax wants to force Sorcerers into melee range with this, then that is absolutely fine. Sorcerer is not suited to be in melee range, yet that is where Streak is usable offensively. So it is good they have something for this situation.

And oh gods! It is but a stun. Break free from it and be done with it. The Sorcerer needs a moment to turn around after streaking through you to follow up with crystal shard or something else. By that time any decent play has already broken free. And curse and meteor alone have never killed anyone on their own.

Posts like this... wow. You should really try playing other classes sometime. Almost all sorc skills are better than other class skills across the board.

Being ‘unkillable’ is only the baseline for being a good ability in sorc’s minds.

Play a templar and no Sorcerer can harm you. Play a Dragonknight and no Sorcerer can harm you.
Other classes excel at countering the entire Sorcerer strategy. Purge, Scales etc.

You are delusional if you think that Sorcerer is above other classes. It was at one point and that was 3 years ago.

Dracane wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Streak is the last good ability Sorcerer has left. Everything else was overnerfed.
And in pvp, Streak is not even the issue. Most Sorcerers use Ball of Lightning, which is truly overperforming.
Purges you of roots and slows and grants you immortality against all ranged magicka builds by absorbing projectiles.

Be glad of those few using streak still. At least you can kill those.
Also; if Zenimax wants to force Sorcerers into melee range with this, then that is absolutely fine. Sorcerer is not suited to be in melee range, yet that is where Streak is usable offensively. So it is good they have something for this situation.

And oh gods! It is but a stun. Break free from it and be done with it. The Sorcerer needs a moment to turn around after streaking through you to follow up with crystal shard or something else. By that time any decent play has already broken free. And curse and meteor alone have never killed anyone on their own.

Posts like this... wow. You should really try playing other classes sometime. Almost all sorc skills are better than other class skills across the board.

Being ‘unkillable’ is only the baseline for being a good ability in sorc’s minds.

Play a templar and no Sorcerer can harm you. Play a Dragonknight and no Sorcerer can harm you.
Other classes excel at countering the entire Sorcerer strategy. Purge, Scales etc.

You are delusional if you think that Sorcerer is above other classes. It was at one point and that was 3 years ago.

Do yourself a favour and switch classes. If you actually think that you aren’t playing a sorc well, and playing other classes will make you a better player.

Sorc’s main issue is it’s filled with players who’ve only played a sorc and have no perspective. No one in their right mind who’s played multiple classes thinks sorcs are weak.

Also no one who play other class will Say mág sorc is op om current patch

Yes, magsorc is not OP. It is top-tier class sharing this position with magplar, stamplar, stamden and stamcro. Thus, there is no necessity to nerf streak or sorc. There is necessity to buff/tweak other 7 specs.

Sorc is slightly below top tier. It appears stronger since it's easier to avoid confrontation with top tiers, but a magsorc committing to a fight with stamplar and even stamcro/stamDK will lose if both players are about same skill. Magsorc can't deliver enough constant pressure to crack the current meta tank builds to be top tier.

If magsorc keeps shields up he can tank through onslaught combo. So any fight turns into attrition duel and streak makes this attrition duel pretty hard for classes which lack ranged pressure or unblockable stuns, i.e. first of all stamplar. I play stamDK and stamplar, on stamDK I'm fine with magsorcs because I keep fossilizing/dizzying them and they can't apply their pressure non-stop.. on stamplar I was forced to sacrifice build which I liked and slot damned S&B backbar just to be able to fight with magsorcs on even terms.

As I said many times, I don't think that nerf of streak or nerf of jabs or nerf of any other "overloaded" ability will do any good. Moving unchained perk to no-CP (i.e. making it default one for any player from level 1), could've solved many issues... or just making break free much cheaper in all modes... but I guess devs are happy that ton of players run with moderate damage, insufficient for timed burst and rely on cc spam to get kills.

IF
In noCp common shield strengh is about 8.5k ( 40k max magicka (shields doesnt scale from spell dmg))
Im quite sure you arent even able to shield onslaught itself with 8k shield not onslaught combo.. Try to use it before writing this nonsense..
And Shieldstacking is no-go for noCp sorc.. 8k magicka wasted in ( if good) 6 seconds.. With only Shieldstacking normal sorc is out of resources in half minute, not counting offensive skill cost to enemy
Keep in mind you need to have some stamina recovery for cc break / dodge so you cannot go just for magicka

I don't get it. Typical health will be ~22k + shield 8k = 30k. What build is capable of dealing 30k damage in 2-3 GCD in no-CP against PVP build? This might happen only if majority of abilities will crit. So this is some borderline scenario when cc-pot is active (otherwise your burst is instantly cancelled by streak), AND majority of abilities will crit AND med-heavy attack stun is not blocked AND break-free didn't happen instantly so onslaught is not dodged AND sorc won't be able to block-tap matriarch heal before last execute(s) landed. That' what need to happen to kill sorc who keeps 1 shield up and is not depleted of magicka/stamina before onslaught.

Oh, shields are expensive. But using 3k+ cost gap closer to keep pressure on magsorc after each streak is not expensive? 5400 stamina drain after each unblockable streak is not expensive? Fact is that in no-CP melee build need to spend 8-9k resources to counter effects of 3-3.5k cost ability is not expensive?

Best thing magsorcs can say about fighting full melee builds in open is to say that full melee builds are powerful in towers/keeps and so magsorc naturally counters them in open and best solution against streak is not to fight magsorcs in open. Of course magsorcs who don't keep shield up die often to stamina combos... but that is class rule - shield MUST be UP. Same as vigor should be up for any stamina build.

I can assure you, if you keep using streak constantly to keep ur distance while also keeping ur shields up and while also trying to deal dmg it's gonna drain a lot more than 3.5k magicka.

Streak cooldown is 4 seconds. CC-immunity cooldown is 7 seconds. I absolutely don't see why you should streak several times "to keep distance" one streak+stun+ movement already puts you far enough to require gap closer use from your melee opponent. Well, bow backbar builds have natural high speed from roll-dodges so they don't require gap closer spam as full melee but they will still receive ton of damage while closing in on magsorc.

Anyway, I found combo which allows me to keep magsorcs in check on stamplar... but that combo requires sacrifices and is overkill in terms of protection/sustain against other classes. With build where I don't feel like I'm outclassed by magsorc's build, I am immortal against all other specs maybe with exception of some good stamcros...

Because u are not going to facetank 6k+ wpn dmg builds unless u are playing some seriously defensively busted sorc with capped resists protection buffs and crap like that. And no u don't need a gap closer to catch up with one streak. U can just walk up on them which also won't make ur character vulnerable during the gap closer animation.

The sorc will need to constantly keep the distance because again he doesn't want to be in melee range against ridicously high wpn dmg builds which means constant streaking keeping shields up while also attempting to be offensive in the little time he has left. And I can assure that's really really really expensive. And if he does manage to kill u while doing that well newsflash. He outplayed you and killed you. Nothing wrong with that.

I have absolutely opposite experience - on 6k WD stamplar, I can face tank typical 6k WD meta stamina build (because fight will be inside ritual), but I can't face tank typical magsorc because he will streak out ritual and damage me from distance. But this is all dependent on class... on 6k DK with same build as stamplar for I can face tank magsorc (because cauterize is mobile plus fossilize guarantees that sorc will be struggling with stamina sustain = he won't be able to convert it to magicka = perpetuum mobile streak-conversion won't be working), but I can't face tank stamplar or magplar (if I don't have major evasion).

All those "ridiculously high WD builds" have generic counters like major evasion or high mobility and both doesn't require much sacrifice. That's why BRP DW receives so much hate, because that weapon set hard-counters all the meta stambuilds because quick cloak is amazing as it is, and then we have major protection to make applying Fury burst unreliable...

Countering streak spam requires multiple sacrifices - not only 1 ability slot and/or set but also additional sustain (Which is not needed against other classes). Well, of course there is generic counter to any ranged build, including magsorc - sitting in tower, running around the rock etc...

Overall, as outcome of this thread I think that OP is completely right. Streak itself is best gap closer/unblockable stun, but that's ok. But combination of streak+conversion is broken. There are multiple global solutions to this without direct nerfs to streak or deal/conversion. Make all cast time abilities (with exception of melee spammables) interruptable always no matter what, reduce cost of break free etc..

And streak spam itself requires sacrifices because it gets expensive fast. You shouldnt be dying to streak/conversion spam because the sorc will barely have time to attack you. Hell, you don't even need to cc break the streak if that is all the sorc is doing cause by the time he finishes his streak and conversion u will be already up without having to cc break.

If some sorc is constantly kiting u with streak, keep shields up and still managing to kill you then he outplayed you. Period. Spreading misinformation how he spent no resources to do that just so u can feel better and excuse ur loss won't make it true.

Ur stamplar can purge curse and u have a ranged cc. Be more careful when fighting a good sorc. Most people dying to sorcs is because they get overzealous spamming gap closers blowing their resources and not minding their defence and then they complain why the burst class is bursting them.

1. Under streak spam I mean using it on cc-immunity cooldown to drain opponent's resources
2. I'm not dying to this builds anymore because I sacrificed 2 jewelry enchants for recovery and now I can dance with this sorcs for 10minutes into stalemate, while over-sustaining against all other builds
3. "you don't even need to break free"... lol are you serious? if you don't break free it is GG against any competent player.
4. I didn't spread misinformation. Multiple people in this thread agreed with OP, i.e. they experience the same.
5. Purging curse is at least twice more expensive then curse and you can't afford to spam 4.8k magicka ability on stam build
6. Ranged cc - are you serious? 3k stamina for thing which will be blocked if not used in close proximity? Against competent players jav works only in melee range, otherwise it is blocked
7. Be more careful - yeah - run around the rock while onslaught is charging - this works. But you know sitting in LOS is BM in 1v1

1. CC immunity is the same for all classes. Just like u should have enough stam to cc break on cooldown other stuns the same applies for sorcs. If u don't have enough stam to cc break then get more sustain. That's not a problem with sorcs, that's ur problem. And if the sorc is only using streak on cc immunity cooldown then it shouldn't be a problem to close the gap.
2. So all it took to dance with a sorc and not die to them is get some sustain? My God, sorcs are so OP then. Funny thing is sorcs are playing sustain oriented setups with regen enchants and sets while also using dark conversion since forever. I guess welcome to their world.
3. Please read before u post. I said if the sorc is using streak into conversion then u don't even need to cc break. That was ur problem. That the sorc is streaking and then using dark conversion. Well guess what. That rotation requires some time to complete and u will be up before the sorc does anything else.
4. It's not a matter of experience. It's a matter of facts. Constantly using streak to kite while keeping shields up and trying to kill people costs a lot of resources. So yes u are spreading misinformation. Just read the tooltips to see how much they cost.
5. No need to spam it. You use it when u need it. No need to purge if u don't feel pressured. That's why I said be more careful and don't get overzealous.
6. Yes I'm serious. You use it to disrupt their combo. U got stunned u are low on resources and u feel pressured. Throw ur javelin to disrupt their combo. Again that's why I said be more careful.
7. No, be more careful as in, u need to be in control. If u get overzealous spamming gap closers blowing ur resources, letting ur buffs go down making mistakes and then dying then that's a problem with u. Again, most people dying to sorcs is because they get annoyed by the constant kiting and they do one mistake after the other. Keep cool and be in control. If you still die then I'm sorry some players are just better. Just like ur stamDK loses to stamplars then some times u are gonna lose to sorcs. Don't understand why this has to be a sorc problem.

Valid points, but we are saying the same, simply from different point of view.
I don't know about what we arguing, I am not calling for streak nerf, I'm just proposing to bring unchained+reduced break free cost to no-CP because imo it will make PVP way more healthy. I don't understand why anybody should be against this - it will be a buff to ALL classes.

Iskiab

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Streak is the last good ability Sorcerer has left. Everything else was overnerfed.
And in pvp, Streak is not even the issue. Most Sorcerers use Ball of Lightning, which is truly overperforming.
Purges you of roots and slows and grants you immortality against all ranged magicka builds by absorbing projectiles.

Be glad of those few using streak still. At least you can kill those.
Also; if Zenimax wants to force Sorcerers into melee range with this, then that is absolutely fine. Sorcerer is not suited to be in melee range, yet that is where Streak is usable offensively. So it is good they have something for this situation.

And oh gods! It is but a stun. Break free from it and be done with it. The Sorcerer needs a moment to turn around after streaking through you to follow up with crystal shard or something else. By that time any decent play has already broken free. And curse and meteor alone have never killed anyone on their own.

Posts like this... wow. You should really try playing other classes sometime. Almost all sorc skills are better than other class skills across the board.

Being ‘unkillable’ is only the baseline for being a good ability in sorc’s minds.

Play a templar and no Sorcerer can harm you. Play a Dragonknight and no Sorcerer can harm you.
Other classes excel at countering the entire Sorcerer strategy. Purge, Scales etc.

You are delusional if you think that Sorcerer is above other classes. It was at one point and that was 3 years ago.

Dracane wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Streak is the last good ability Sorcerer has left. Everything else was overnerfed.
And in pvp, Streak is not even the issue. Most Sorcerers use Ball of Lightning, which is truly overperforming.
Purges you of roots and slows and grants you immortality against all ranged magicka builds by absorbing projectiles.

Be glad of those few using streak still. At least you can kill those.
Also; if Zenimax wants to force Sorcerers into melee range with this, then that is absolutely fine. Sorcerer is not suited to be in melee range, yet that is where Streak is usable offensively. So it is good they have something for this situation.

And oh gods! It is but a stun. Break free from it and be done with it. The Sorcerer needs a moment to turn around after streaking through you to follow up with crystal shard or something else. By that time any decent play has already broken free. And curse and meteor alone have never killed anyone on their own.

Posts like this... wow. You should really try playing other classes sometime. Almost all sorc skills are better than other class skills across the board.

Being ‘unkillable’ is only the baseline for being a good ability in sorc’s minds.

Play a templar and no Sorcerer can harm you. Play a Dragonknight and no Sorcerer can harm you.
Other classes excel at countering the entire Sorcerer strategy. Purge, Scales etc.

You are delusional if you think that Sorcerer is above other classes. It was at one point and that was 3 years ago.

Do yourself a favour and switch classes. If you actually think that you aren’t playing a sorc well, and playing other classes will make you a better player.

Sorc’s main issue is it’s filled with players who’ve only played a sorc and have no perspective. No one in their right mind who’s played multiple classes thinks sorcs are weak.

Also no one who play other class will Say mág sorc is op om current patch

Yes, magsorc is not OP. It is top-tier class sharing this position with magplar, stamplar, stamden and stamcro. Thus, there is no necessity to nerf streak or sorc. There is necessity to buff/tweak other 7 specs.

Sorc is slightly below top tier. It appears stronger since it's easier to avoid confrontation with top tiers, but a magsorc committing to a fight with stamplar and even stamcro/stamDK will lose if both players are about same skill. Magsorc can't deliver enough constant pressure to crack the current meta tank builds to be top tier.

If magsorc keeps shields up he can tank through onslaught combo. So any fight turns into attrition duel and streak makes this attrition duel pretty hard for classes which lack ranged pressure or unblockable stuns, i.e. first of all stamplar. I play stamDK and stamplar, on stamDK I'm fine with magsorcs because I keep fossilizing/dizzying them and they can't apply their pressure non-stop.. on stamplar I was forced to sacrifice build which I liked and slot damned S&B backbar just to be able to fight with magsorcs on even terms.

As I said many times, I don't think that nerf of streak or nerf of jabs or nerf of any other "overloaded" ability will do any good. Moving unchained perk to no-CP (i.e. making it default one for any player from level 1), could've solved many issues... or just making break free much cheaper in all modes... but I guess devs are happy that ton of players run with moderate damage, insufficient for timed burst and rely on cc spam to get kills.

IF
In noCp common shield strengh is about 8.5k ( 40k max magicka (shields doesnt scale from spell dmg))
Im quite sure you arent even able to shield onslaught itself with 8k shield not onslaught combo.. Try to use it before writing this nonsense..
And Shieldstacking is no-go for noCp sorc.. 8k magicka wasted in ( if good) 6 seconds.. With only Shieldstacking normal sorc is out of resources in half minute, not counting offensive skill cost to enemy
Keep in mind you need to have some stamina recovery for cc break / dodge so you cannot go just for magicka

I don't get it. Typical health will be ~22k + shield 8k = 30k. What build is capable of dealing 30k damage in 2-3 GCD in no-CP against PVP build? This might happen only if majority of abilities will crit. So this is some borderline scenario when cc-pot is active (otherwise your burst is instantly cancelled by streak), AND majority of abilities will crit AND med-heavy attack stun is not blocked AND break-free didn't happen instantly so onslaught is not dodged AND sorc won't be able to block-tap matriarch heal before last execute(s) landed. That' what need to happen to kill sorc who keeps 1 shield up and is not depleted of magicka/stamina before onslaught.

Oh, shields are expensive. But using 3k+ cost gap closer to keep pressure on magsorc after each streak is not expensive? 5400 stamina drain after each unblockable streak is not expensive? Fact is that in no-CP melee build need to spend 8-9k resources to counter effects of 3-3.5k cost ability is not expensive?

Best thing magsorcs can say about fighting full melee builds in open is to say that full melee builds are powerful in towers/keeps and so magsorc naturally counters them in open and best solution against streak is not to fight magsorcs in open. Of course magsorcs who don't keep shield up die often to stamina combos... but that is class rule - shield MUST be UP. Same as vigor should be up for any stamina build.

I can assure you, if you keep using streak constantly to keep ur distance while also keeping ur shields up and while also trying to deal dmg it's gonna drain a lot more than 3.5k magicka.

Streak cooldown is 4 seconds. CC-immunity cooldown is 7 seconds. I absolutely don't see why you should streak several times "to keep distance" one streak+stun+ movement already puts you far enough to require gap closer use from your melee opponent. Well, bow backbar builds have natural high speed from roll-dodges so they don't require gap closer spam as full melee but they will still receive ton of damage while closing in on magsorc.

Anyway, I found combo which allows me to keep magsorcs in check on stamplar... but that combo requires sacrifices and is overkill in terms of protection/sustain against other classes. With build where I don't feel like I'm outclassed by magsorc's build, I am immortal against all other specs maybe with exception of some good stamcros...

Because u are not going to facetank 6k+ wpn dmg builds unless u are playing some seriously defensively busted sorc with capped resists protection buffs and crap like that. And no u don't need a gap closer to catch up with one streak. U can just walk up on them which also won't make ur character vulnerable during the gap closer animation.

The sorc will need to constantly keep the distance because again he doesn't want to be in melee range against ridicously high wpn dmg builds which means constant streaking keeping shields up while also attempting to be offensive in the little time he has left. And I can assure that's really really really expensive. And if he does manage to kill u while doing that well newsflash. He outplayed you and killed you. Nothing wrong with that.

I have absolutely opposite experience - on 6k WD stamplar, I can face tank typical 6k WD meta stamina build (because fight will be inside ritual), but I can't face tank typical magsorc because he will streak out ritual and damage me from distance. But this is all dependent on class... on 6k DK with same build as stamplar for I can face tank magsorc (because cauterize is mobile plus fossilize guarantees that sorc will be struggling with stamina sustain = he won't be able to convert it to magicka = perpetuum mobile streak-conversion won't be working), but I can't face tank stamplar or magplar (if I don't have major evasion).

All those "ridiculously high WD builds" have generic counters like major evasion or high mobility and both doesn't require much sacrifice. That's why BRP DW receives so much hate, because that weapon set hard-counters all the meta stambuilds because quick cloak is amazing as it is, and then we have major protection to make applying Fury burst unreliable...

Countering streak spam requires multiple sacrifices - not only 1 ability slot and/or set but also additional sustain (Which is not needed against other classes). Well, of course there is generic counter to any ranged build, including magsorc - sitting in tower, running around the rock etc...

Overall, as outcome of this thread I think that OP is completely right. Streak itself is best gap closer/unblockable stun, but that's ok. But combination of streak+conversion is broken. There are multiple global solutions to this without direct nerfs to streak or deal/conversion. Make all cast time abilities (with exception of melee spammables) interruptable always no matter what, reduce cost of break free etc..

And streak spam itself requires sacrifices because it gets expensive fast. You shouldnt be dying to streak/conversion spam because the sorc will barely have time to attack you. Hell, you don't even need to cc break the streak if that is all the sorc is doing cause by the time he finishes his streak and conversion u will be already up without having to cc break.

If some sorc is constantly kiting u with streak, keep shields up and still managing to kill you then he outplayed you. Period. Spreading misinformation how he spent no resources to do that just so u can feel better and excuse ur loss won't make it true.

Ur stamplar can purge curse and u have a ranged cc. Be more careful when fighting a good sorc. Most people dying to sorcs is because they get overzealous spamming gap closers blowing their resources and not minding their defence and then they complain why the burst class is bursting them.

1. Under streak spam I mean using it on cc-immunity cooldown to drain opponent's resources
2. I'm not dying to this builds anymore because I sacrificed 2 jewelry enchants for recovery and now I can dance with this sorcs for 10minutes into stalemate, while over-sustaining against all other builds
3. "you don't even need to break free"... lol are you serious? if you don't break free it is GG against any competent player.
4. I didn't spread misinformation. Multiple people in this thread agreed with OP, i.e. they experience the same.
5. Purging curse is at least twice more expensive then curse and you can't afford to spam 4.8k magicka ability on stam build
6. Ranged cc - are you serious? 3k stamina for thing which will be blocked if not used in close proximity? Against competent players jav works only in melee range, otherwise it is blocked
7. Be more careful - yeah - run around the rock while onslaught is charging - this works. But you know sitting in LOS is BM in 1v1

1. CC immunity is the same for all classes. Just like u should have enough stam to cc break on cooldown other stuns the same applies for sorcs. If u don't have enough stam to cc break then get more sustain. That's not a problem with sorcs, that's ur problem. And if the sorc is only using streak on cc immunity cooldown then it shouldn't be a problem to close the gap.
2. So all it took to dance with a sorc and not die to them is get some sustain? My God, sorcs are so OP then. Funny thing is sorcs are playing sustain oriented setups with regen enchants and sets while also using dark conversion since forever. I guess welcome to their world.
3. Please read before u post. I said if the sorc is using streak into conversion then u don't even need to cc break. That was ur problem. That the sorc is streaking and then using dark conversion. Well guess what. That rotation requires some time to complete and u will be up before the sorc does anything else.
4. It's not a matter of experience. It's a matter of facts. Constantly using streak to kite while keeping shields up and trying to kill people costs a lot of resources. So yes u are spreading misinformation. Just read the tooltips to see how much they cost.
5. No need to spam it. You use it when u need it. No need to purge if u don't feel pressured. That's why I said be more careful and don't get overzealous.
6. Yes I'm serious. You use it to disrupt their combo. U got stunned u are low on resources and u feel pressured. Throw ur javelin to disrupt their combo. Again that's why I said be more careful.
7. No, be more careful as in, u need to be in control. If u get overzealous spamming gap closers blowing ur resources, letting ur buffs go down making mistakes and then dying then that's a problem with u. Again, most people dying to sorcs is because they get annoyed by the constant kiting and they do one mistake after the other. Keep cool and be in control. If you still die then I'm sorry some players are just better. Just like ur stamDK loses to stamplars then some times u are gonna lose to sorcs. Don't understand why this has to be a sorc problem.

Valid points, but we are saying the same, simply from different point of view.
I don't know about what we arguing, I am not calling for streak nerf, I'm just proposing to bring unchained+reduced break free cost to no-CP because imo it will make PVP way more healthy. I don't understand why anybody should be against this - it will be a buff to ALL classes.

Cost reduction would be good, but making cc immunity work would be even better.

Every patch is the same, people complain about stun abilities and all that changes is which ability is targeted. No one really complains about cc in general, they complain about other player’s cc. Buff mine, nerf yours might as well be the forums motto.

MartiniDaniels

Lord-Otto wrote: »

You're forgetting shields, Marti. You are not getting a plus for your resources by streaking away and conversing because while you're doing that, your shields expire. And they are really expensive. A smart player keeps the pressure up, forcing shieldcasts and that WILL run the sorc out of magicka.

Stamina builds need to keep vigor up. With 5 medium it is 2600-2700 cost. Cheaper then shield but not free, and it now has only 4 seconds length. Also stamina must roll-dodge or block frags this is another ~2k stamina. Also stamina starts fight with much less resource pool then magsorc.
Yes, pressure is must have against magsorc, otherwise he will burn you.

StaticWave

Fawn4287 wrote: »

Players constantly spam streak and convert, abilities that are in themselves overpowered for the cost. Streak is a huge aoe, hard CC, does decent damage, is a gap closer that requires no target, meaning it works as both an offensive and defensive ability and is used by stamina (the same reason petrify had a huge cost increase), the current 50% increase in cost is not enough, the ability should have a cost increase of 100% every time it is cast out of cooldown and the base cost increased by 1k. Likewise on Convert, the Ability is too often spammed, remove the channel from this ability as well as the instant resource return and make it like siphoning/leeching strikes, giving the full resources at the end or throughout then time of the buff. This would help improve sorc sustain in PVE and stop the spamming of a poorly balanced ability.

INB4 “SoRc NeRf ThReAd”, most people are bandwagon meta hopping petsorc players anyway, as its virtually unseen out of a zerg when its not the best solo class.

Fawn4287 wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

the only thing causes anger from streak is its stunn.
just take away the stunn from streak and let them spam it.
it doesnt need a cost increase nor a cost penalty. no

The problem is with such a low cost and low cost to keep using, its too easy to just continually streak through someone and and loose line of sight every time they try to combo you, then streak as a bail, which happens to move faster than a build in medium with major expedition sprinting.

Let me give you an idea of how easy it is to chase down someone with ball of lightning, which is the other morph of streak that's purely for creating distance and kiting:

BoL 3x times, enemy gap closer 3x times.
BoL 3x times, enemy gap closes with sprint.
BoL 3x times, enemy gets on horses and chases you down.

It's not that hard to chase down a streak/BoL spamming sorc. I know it because I've been both the chaser and the chased. It's also useless vs ranged players. I'm sorry but the only thing i have for this post is l2p