Add ons, should Zen take a more active roll?

idk · February 2020

ESO Should add some of the most used add on to the standard UI

Lysette wrote: »

Well, mini-map - i deem it not just unnecessary, but it takes you out of the game world l.

So opening a map that takes up most of the screen does not take you out of the game world?

Odd because I find it much less immersion breaking to glance down at a mini-map from time to time that having to open up the huge map just as often.

Nanfoodle · February 2020

ESO Should add many add ons on the standard UI but a toggle on/off should be used

Lysette wrote: »

Creating mods is meta-gaming for the creators - and some might not even play the game anymore, but just work on creating, testing and improving their mods. This is a hobby which adds to the ingame community and is a quite social thing to do, helping out with improving the game as an independent person - don't take this away from them,it is their way of playing.

Yes that was the same with WoW but the mod community looked at is a badge of honer to have their mod added to the game and they would move on to fixing something new people were complaining about. It's how WoW ended up with the best UI.

As to. The mini map taking you out of the game. Stopping to look at a map that fills your screen does not?

Knightpanther · February 2020

Other: Explain

Never used add-ons, cannot see why anyone needs to use them, the game aint that hard.

Be safe

YandereGirlfriend · February 2020

ESO Should add many add ons on the standard UI but a toggle on/off should be used

As someone who thinks that many add-ons are, at best, circumventing core game mechanics and, at worst, seem like borderline hacks/exploits, I would strongly favor ZOS cracking the whip on what data is exposed in the API.

For example, the first time that I saw Raid Notifier in action, I thought "No WAY can this be legit within the TOS" but, alas, I suppose that it is.

Even the crafting writ add-on that automates writs seems like akin to botting, though it's not hurting anyone and it improves an otherwise very clunky process so I don't really have a problem with it.

And then all of the redonkulous PvP add-ons that folks run that give them psychic-like vision into the stats and builds of their opponents, SMH. That should absolutely be obscured from users.

I'm more okay with group-management add-ons so that you can see when Ultimates are available and such and would support that being integrated into base game UI options.

bmnoble · February 2020

ESO Should add many add ons on the standard UI but a toggle on/off should be used

I think they should take the hint, that a lot of these add on's provide features people want in game and are prepared to go out of their way to download them.

There are a number of popular add on's that have not been updated by the creator because they have moved on and some lack alternatives so are still used.

As far as I am concerned add on's are a selling point for the game on PC, its the reason I chose PC over console and if some of the add on's that I use did not exist I probably would not have stuck around as long as I have doubt I am the only one.

Karm1cOne · February 2020

There seems to be a lot of misconceptions on what addons can and cant do. The information an addon has available is supplied by ZOS. You cannot get info that is not in a supplied within an api call. If I want an opponents' health, I call the function that shares that.

idk · February 2020

ESO Should add some of the most used add on to the standard UI

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

As someone who thinks that many add-ons are, at best, circumventing core game mechanics and, at worst, seem like borderline hacks/exploits, I would strongly favor ZOS cracking the whip on what data is exposed in the API.

For example, the first time that I saw Raid Notifier in action, I thought "No WAY can this be legit within the TOS" but, alas, I suppose that it is.

Even the crafting writ add-on that automates writs seems like akin to botting, though it's not hurting anyone and it improves an otherwise very clunky process so I don't really have a problem with it.

And then all of the redonkulous PvP add-ons that folks run that give them psychic-like vision into the stats and builds of their opponents, SMH. That should absolutely be obscured from users.

I'm more okay with group-management add-ons so that you can see when Ultimates are available and such and would support that being integrated into base game UI options.

Zos has absolute control of the API. Zos knows they are making PvE notices available in the API.

However, I do question the psychic-like vision add-ons that allow players to peer into the stats and builds of enemies. Please do provide actual information about this so Zos can look into it if they actually exist.

YandereGirlfriend · February 2020

ESO Should add many add ons on the standard UI but a toggle on/off should be used

idk wrote: »

Zos has absolute control of the API. Zos knows they are making PvE notices available in the API.

Indeed, and I said as much in my post.

My point is that ZOS should not expose this information at all in the API. I'm not faulting mod creators but rather ZOS themselves.

When you're in Cloudrest and Raid Notifier flashes "Prepare for Weapon Overcharge" five seconds before it happens it's circumventing the visual tells and mechanics that make PvE content interesting to begin with, it's basically wall-hacks for PvE.

For PvP, I'm not in favor of players knowing ANYTHING about my character that they can't tell simply by looking at it with their own eyes. That also means I'm against being able to use the Outfit System to polymorph a sword into a mace or light armor into heavy armor, but that it what it is. Nobody has any business knowing what my resistances are and I would call on ZOS to clean that up.

InvitationNotFound · February 2020

Other: Explain

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Zos has absolute control of the API. Zos knows they are making PvE notices available in the API.

Indeed, and I said as much in my post.

My point is that ZOS should not expose this information at all in the API. I'm not faulting mod creators but rather ZOS themselves.

When you're in Cloudrest and Raid Notifier flashes "Prepare for Weapon Overcharge" five seconds before it happens it's circumventing the visual tells and mechanics that make PvE content interesting to begin with, it's basically wall-hacks for PvE.

For PvP, I'm not in favor of players knowing ANYTHING about my character that they can't tell simply by looking at it with their own eyes. That also means I'm against being able to use the Outfit System to polymorph a sword into a mace or light armor into heavy armor, but that it what it is. Nobody has any business knowing what my resistances are and I would call on ZOS to clean that up.

You did not answer one of the previous questions.

Which is the psychic-like vision add-on that give you information about the gear, stats, etc. of your opponent.
You can't even get that information directly from a group member through the API (the only way i currently could think of is that targeting a player may allow that, but i highly doubt that at this point).

So instead of spreading misconceptions or otherwise misleading assumptions, post the addons you consider being able to do that and provide some facts to your claims. I'd really like to take a look at their source code.

mague · February 2020

Other: Explain

Some, but not the most used.

SkyShards is used often but should not be part of the game.
MM and TTC is used often but should not be part of the game.

Minimap should be part of the game with an on/off option
TrueExploration should be part of the game with an on/off option
ActionDurationReminder should be part of the game with an on/off option
Should I Eat or Drink should be part of the game just as the armor/weapon warning

etc.

Most used does not mean it should be made standart. But some addons are harmless helpers.

relentless_turnip · February 2020

ESO Should add many add ons on the standard UI but a toggle on/off should be used

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

idk wrote: »

For PvP, I'm not in favor of players knowing ANYTHING about my character that they can't tell simply by looking at it with their own eyes. That also means I'm against being able to use the Outfit System to polymorph a sword into a mace or light armor into heavy armor, but that it what it is. Nobody has any business knowing what my resistances are and I would call on ZOS to clean that up.

Not sure I can get on board with changes to the outfit system. It really has no bearing in PVP when you have sets like fortified brass and Buffer of the swift. Attacking a player tells you how tanky they are and that in my experience is the only way to figure out a build.

I can kind of understand what you are saying about a mace and a sword, but the numbers will add up to near enough the same figure regardless. Seeing a mace doesn't tell you the player is running a full pen build, 2H tells me they probably are using dizzy and onslaught.That's the only information you can really reliably determine on sight alone.

WiseSky · February 2020

ESO Should not update the UI

If addons start interfering with the serves in a negative ways Zos should step in.

If not the more customizable options the better.

Do addons slow down the servers or is it just client based ?

Nanfoodle · February 2020

ESO Should add many add ons on the standard UI but a toggle on/off should be used

WiseSky wrote: »

If addons start interfering with the serves in a negative ways Zos should step in.

If not the more customizable options the better.

Do addons slow down the servers or is it just client based ?

Add ons that are up to date have little impact on the game. Most are just a few hundred kb. Out of date is another matter. There is the question, should people be forced to add a mini map to there game? This should be something Zen adds and keeps up to date. Where do we draw the line? This is something Zen need to look at.

DjMuscleboy02 · February 2020

I play eso without most add-ons (pretty much just combat metrics/hodor reflexes to share and show group dps during raid) and have had very few crashes in game. There are times I crash several times while loading in the first time though.

InvitationNotFound · February 2020

Other: Explain

WiseSky wrote: »

If addons start interfering with the serves in a negative ways Zos should step in.

If not the more customizable options the better.

Do addons slow down the servers or is it just client based ?

It depends on the addon as it seems.

In the past there were addons making a lot of guild history requests (reading sales) and so just changed a few things / reduced the amount of data you can access (as far as i know, never wrote any trading addons, so i was more of a spectator).

If you use something like SkyShards it should not generate any traffic.

Nanfoodle wrote: »

WiseSky wrote: »

If addons start interfering with the serves in a negative ways Zos should step in.

If not the more customizable options the better.

Do addons slow down the servers or is it just client based ?

Add ons that are up to date have little impact on the game.

That doesn't work that way. An outdated addon, e.g. an old SkyShard version should still not generate any load on the server.
Yet, an up to date trading addon still may generate some traffic / load.

Nanfoodle wrote: »

Most are just a few hundred kb.

What is a few hundred kb? The addon itself? They are coming from a different web site (esoui.com / Minion) and do not have anything to do with ESO or the ESO severs and the server performance.

Nanfoodle wrote: »

Out of date is another matter.

No, see above.

Nanfoodle wrote: »

There is the question, should people be forced to add a mini map to there game? This should be something Zen adds and keeps up to date. Where do we draw the line? This is something Zen need to look at.

vamp_emily · February 2020

I think Zeni shouldn't support outdated addons/libraries.

InvitationNotFound · February 2020

Other: Explain

vamp_emily wrote: »

I think Zeni shouldn't support outdated addons/libraries.

You do not understand the definition of outdated i guess. It is only a number in the manifest file.
Outdated addons can work perfectly. It simply depends on the addon. You can't expect ZOS to check every single addon to change their definition of outdated...

And disallowing an addon because it hasn't been updated (but runs perfectly) doesn't make much sense.
Furthermore, with every update you have to allow outdated addons. So... your fault if your game has issues when you run them.

Nyladreas · February 2020

TheFM wrote: »

Nanfoodle wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Nanfoodle wrote: »

Devs have said that in part of the reason we have so many crashes is because add on creators have not updated their add ons with the current ESO update. Looking at some of the most popular adds ons in Minion, they are right, some go back as far as 2016 since there last update. We see from Xbox and PS players, there are many add ons they have requested with no option for them.

Games like WoW that lets add ons be used, have over time taken the best add ons and made it part of their standard UI. Even simple things like Mini Map is standard to all MMO UI's and small things like that, make the game unplayable to many. What are your thoughts?

I would personally love to see add-ons be out on game officially so that we couldcurb add-ons that are taking it too far.

Not sure how but WoW used to ban add ons they didn't agree with.

Exactly, for example there are add ons in PvP that Tel u a keep is UA before it's tagged, that tell you your opponents resistances, and add-ons that highlight targets for your entire team when the leader marks them. It's getting far passed the point the original team was comfortable with.

Ah... suddenly a lot of things make sense again.

idk · February 2020

ESO Should add some of the most used add on to the standard UI

vamp_emily wrote: »

I think Zeni shouldn't support outdated addons/libraries.

I would suggest there is a reason why Zos makes such changes that force addon devs to update their addons and libraries. Without understanding that reason such a suggestion may be asking for the even lower performance of the game.

InvitationNotFound · February 2020

Other: Explain

Nyladreas wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Nanfoodle wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Nanfoodle wrote: »

Devs have said that in part of the reason we have so many crashes is because add on creators have not updated their add ons with the current ESO update. Looking at some of the most popular adds ons in Minion, they are right, some go back as far as 2016 since there last update. We see from Xbox and PS players, there are many add ons they have requested with no option for them.

Games like WoW that lets add ons be used, have over time taken the best add ons and made it part of their standard UI. Even simple things like Mini Map is standard to all MMO UI's and small things like that, make the game unplayable to many. What are your thoughts?

I would personally love to see add-ons be out on game officially so that we couldcurb add-ons that are taking it too far.

Not sure how but WoW used to ban add ons they didn't agree with.

Exactly, for example there are add ons in PvP that Tel u a keep is UA before it's tagged, that tell you your opponents resistances, and add-ons that highlight targets for your entire team when the leader marks them. It's getting far passed the point the original team was comfortable with.

Ah... suddenly a lot of things make sense again.

@Nyladreas :
No, @TheFM has not provided any evidence on what he's saying.
I doubt he can provide a single addon name that does what he's claiming addons can do.

barney2525 · February 2020

Why would addons be causing Server issues? They are localized on the individual computers. If an addon has gone 'bad', it should only be affecting the system it is on, not be feeding back into the entire Server.

barney2525 · February 2020

Lysette wrote: »

Well, mini-map - i deem it not just unnecessary, but it takes you out of the game world - it is just moving your map pointer on the mini-map with your eyes glued to the mini-map rectangle, instead of navigating in world and orientate at landmarks - which would be a far more immersive experience and after a short while you wouldn't need any map at all. ZOS tried their best to declutter the UI and make it immersive - and you introduce again a cluttered UI by using lots of add-ons.

I used add-ons in the past, but it is more fun without them - I do not need cheat tools, which point me to sky shards, resources, lore books and what not - it would be just moving a marker on a map to another marker on the map instead of actually enjoying the game world. This is my experience since I decided against using add-ons - it improved my experience.

Of course everything takes longer like this, but I am not in a hurry - ESO is not going anywhere anytime soon - it will be here for a decade or more to come, because PvE wise it is a really good game playable by casuals, because they can play independent or together with someone, even if they do not have much time to play or the required skills for an advanced group - power players will eventually move on, but the game will continue for a long while supported by casuals, which are not in hurry and want to see it all as well.

Seriously? Eventually you would not need any map at all?

You really think people are going to memorize the entirety of all the zones in this game so they recognize exactly where they are as they are riding around?

Thats just silly

Sylvermynx · February 2020

barney2525 wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Well, mini-map - i deem it not just unnecessary, but it takes you out of the game world - it is just moving your map pointer on the mini-map with your eyes glued to the mini-map rectangle, instead of navigating in world and orientate at landmarks - which would be a far more immersive experience and after a short while you wouldn't need any map at all. ZOS tried their best to declutter the UI and make it immersive - and you introduce again a cluttered UI by using lots of add-ons.

I used add-ons in the past, but it is more fun without them - I do not need cheat tools, which point me to sky shards, resources, lore books and what not - it would be just moving a marker on a map to another marker on the map instead of actually enjoying the game world. This is my experience since I decided against using add-ons - it improved my experience.

Of course everything takes longer like this, but I am not in a hurry - ESO is not going anywhere anytime soon - it will be here for a decade or more to come, because PvE wise it is a really good game playable by casuals, because they can play independent or together with someone, even if they do not have much time to play or the required skills for an advanced group - power players will eventually move on, but the game will continue for a long while supported by casuals, which are not in hurry and want to see it all as well.

Seriously? Eventually you would not need any map at all?

You really think people are going to memorize the entirety of all the zones in this game so they recognize exactly where they are as they are riding around?

Thats just silly

No, it's really not. I actually have uninstalled the addons I used to have for "world tracking" as almost 2 years into the game, I've already memorized all the zones. And where all the skyshards are. Yeah, most people may not do that, but I don't have a choice - I still remember how to get where I'm going, how to complete all the quests, and where all the good stuff is in the SSI Gold Box Forgotten Realms games - from the mid to late 80s.

I don't have delves memorized, but then it's only recently I've been able to get into them (somewhat better internet); then again they're generally straightforward anyway. Dungeons I'm not doing yet - if ever.... Satellite is pretty painful for stuff like that.

But overworld? Yeah, I don't need maps. It's a rare day I open the world map once. Most often it's because I'm still getting lost in the Hollow City or Brass Fortress!

Nyladreas · February 2020

InvitationNotFound wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Nanfoodle wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Nanfoodle wrote: »

Devs have said that in part of the reason we have so many crashes is because add on creators have not updated their add ons with the current ESO update. Looking at some of the most popular adds ons in Minion, they are right, some go back as far as 2016 since there last update. We see from Xbox and PS players, there are many add ons they have requested with no option for them.

Games like WoW that lets add ons be used, have over time taken the best add ons and made it part of their standard UI. Even simple things like Mini Map is standard to all MMO UI's and small things like that, make the game unplayable to many. What are your thoughts?

I would personally love to see add-ons be out on game officially so that we couldcurb add-ons that are taking it too far.

Not sure how but WoW used to ban add ons they didn't agree with.

Exactly, for example there are add ons in PvP that Tel u a keep is UA before it's tagged, that tell you your opponents resistances, and add-ons that highlight targets for your entire team when the leader marks them. It's getting far passed the point the original team was comfortable with.

Ah... suddenly a lot of things make sense again.

@Nyladreas :
No, @TheFM has not provided any evidence on what he's saying.
I doubt he can provide a single addon name that does what he's claiming addons can do.

Idk if it's addons, but I have certainly seen strange player behavior that these "addons" would explain on more than multiple occasions. So... Idk.

Tandor · February 2020

ESO Should not update the UI

barney2525 wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Well, mini-map - i deem it not just unnecessary, but it takes you out of the game world - it is just moving your map pointer on the mini-map with your eyes glued to the mini-map rectangle, instead of navigating in world and orientate at landmarks - which would be a far more immersive experience and after a short while you wouldn't need any map at all. ZOS tried their best to declutter the UI and make it immersive - and you introduce again a cluttered UI by using lots of add-ons.

I used add-ons in the past, but it is more fun without them - I do not need cheat tools, which point me to sky shards, resources, lore books and what not - it would be just moving a marker on a map to another marker on the map instead of actually enjoying the game world. This is my experience since I decided against using add-ons - it improved my experience.

Of course everything takes longer like this, but I am not in a hurry - ESO is not going anywhere anytime soon - it will be here for a decade or more to come, because PvE wise it is a really good game playable by casuals, because they can play independent or together with someone, even if they do not have much time to play or the required skills for an advanced group - power players will eventually move on, but the game will continue for a long while supported by casuals, which are not in hurry and want to see it all as well.

Seriously? Eventually you would not need any map at all?

You really think people are going to memorize the entirety of all the zones in this game so they recognize exactly where they are as they are riding around?

Thats just silly

You obviously don't date back to the early days of gaming when we all drew our own maps with pencils and graph paper. Heck, even in 1999 when EQ came out it took a long time for a player to come up with EQ Atlas. Even then the ingame maps were still atrocious.

ANGEL_BtVS · February 2020

ESO Should add many add ons on the standard UI but a toggle on/off should be used

Maps indicators for skyshards and Mage's guild lorebooks should be added to console. It saves MASSIVE amounts of time having those on pc. But I would like the option to toggle.

Nanfoodle · February 2020

ESO Should add many add ons on the standard UI but a toggle on/off should be used

ANGEL_BtVS wrote: »

Maps indicators for skyshards and Mage's guild lorebooks should be added to console. It saves MASSIVE amounts of time having those on pc. But I would like the option to toggle.

That would fall under play how you want to play. If you gonna use an add on and that's not an option, your gonna google it with your phone. Toggles is a need for most add ons IMO

Kungfu · February 2020

ESO Should add many add ons on the standard UI but a toggle on/off should be used

Nanfoodle wrote: »

xbobx15 wrote: »

they should remove all addons that cause performance issues on the server.

Add ons are client side not server side.

But they all interact with the server via ZOS's API and many of those API hooks can be accidentally used / intentionally manipulated / exploited to cause performance issues for others.

max_only · February 2020

ESO Should add some of the most used add on to the standard UI

Forward camp preview should be in the base game.
A better buff tracker like Srendarr should be base game. (Buff tracker already toggles)

I know console has a lot of QOL requests so I’ll leave it up to them to say their favorites.

Casterial · February 2020

Other: Explain

Stop touching the API so much and players should stop using out of date addons.. Its so simple.