My biggest gripe about Dark Heart (Story in Group DLC)

Aptonoth · January 2020

Make solo dungeons and trials for people who want the story.

code65536 · January 2020

All dungeons and trials have stories. And need to have stories. Why are we here? Why are we fighting these guys? Etc.

So they could either invent entirely new standalone stories for each dungeon (which is what they did with the earlier DLCs). Or they could invent stories that relate to a central thing.

I don't know about you, but if I were asked to write a story, the latter option would be easier. It's less open-ended and you already have some of the groundwork laid down.

It's the same reason movie studios much rather make sequels that extend upon an existing story framework than come up with entirely new original story frameworks.

So this notion that "they are wasting their budget" on dungeon stories is ludicrous. If anything, a single year-long story framework is cheaper and easier for them to do.

And it's also ridiculous to suggest that we who run dungeons don't care about the story. Most of us do. The first time through, at least. Yes, you see us blitz through dungeons sprinting from fight to fight, but that's because we've done it dozens of times (because unlike overland quests, dungeons and trials have replayability). We generally listen to and appreciate the story the first time through, just like anyone else.

OtarTheMad · January 2020

I would love for dungeons to be put into a Story Mode for some people. Pretty nice idea.

BejaProphet · January 2020

I truely sympathize with the frustration expressed in the original post. But...are we seriously suggesting we don’t put interesting story in dungeons?

The position of intentionally making dungeons less interesting is a non starter. The fact that you are frustrated and wish you could do them actually proves the story should be there. It is an attraction to the content.

anitajoneb17_ESO · January 2020

Royaji wrote: »

And that kind of attitude just confirms that ESO was never for you.

Do you really need to be so rude to someone who politely and factually expresses their wishes ? It's because of people like you that so many players just prefer to play solo.

frozzzen101 wrote: »

Casdha wrote: »

I personally would like to know who the "They" is they referred to in the clip that was asking for more story integration.
I've never seen a single post on these forums about wanting more story integration for group dungeons. Every post I've seen on the subject has been to the contrary.

You know, I'm tired of posts like yours demanding that what little of enjoyable game content comes out be lowered to roleplayer level. Honestly, I can't fully enjoy overland content because it's so easy that most of the bosses die before they even get their dialogue out and die before I finish full rotation. I can't get immersed in story if I know that my base hp regen will outheal anything mobs can throw at me, so only place where I can experience decent story is in difficult content. I know all stock responses, and you know what? I couldn't care less about any of them. You also probably know all the stock responses I might tell you. Are you with a straight face telling me that you cannot organize a group for story run for two normal dungeons to get the full story in 3 months before chapter comes out? Seriously?

Since you ask, it's obvious that, NO, you don't know all the answers on stock and you haven't considered all possible points of view. And since you talk about immersion, let me explain why story in group dungeons is out of place :
I am a very social person with several guilds and plenty of guildmates. I can find a group with people also wishing to go slow and enjoy the story any time. But I simply cannot enjoy and feel immersed in the story while I know that people might be "waiting for me". Even if they agreed to it. If I run in a group, I am focused on my group members - not the story. Furthermore, most times we will sit in TeamSpeak or Discord and guess what ? People talk, in there. Best case scenario, they talk about the dungeon and its story (preventing me from getting my own immersion), worst case scenario, they talk about their cat playing with the keyboard and how cute it is, or about their grandma being sick, whatever. Goodbye immersion.
Stories have nothing to do in group dungeons.

Casdha wrote: »

I personally would like to know who the "They" is they referred to in the clip that was asking for more story integration.
I've never seen a single post on these forums about wanting more story integration for group dungeons. Every post I've seen on the subject has been to the contrary.

It's most probably the marketing and monetization people. People who play for the story are usually the completionist type and want all of it. So most of them will buy the DLC or a month of ESO+ to make sure they got it all. Which they would not do if it was purely combat-related.

Furthermore, the "year-long-story" presentation is an efficient way of masking that the initial "4 updates a year" has become "2 updates + 4 dungeons a year" - which is only half of the promised rhythm of updates. At least, in the eye of people who don't (primarily) play dungeons, which I believe to be the vast majority of players.

I watched the @Alcast part of the post-announcement stream and he was pretty straightforward in telling the devs that their strategy about dungeons (length, difficulty, story, and also rewards/incentives) was mismatched. Let's hope they listen...

anitajoneb17_ESO · January 2020

BejaProphet wrote: »

I truely sympathize with the frustration expressed in the original post. But...are we seriously suggesting we don’t put interesting story in dungeons?

The position of intentionally making dungeons less interesting is a non starter. The fact that you are frustrated and wish you could do them actually proves the story should be there. It is an attraction to the content.

I disagree.
Putting stories in dungeons is simply taking parts of the story away from people who don't play dungeons (whatever their reasons).
PvP has no story, do you think PvP should involve story ?

BejaProphet · January 2020

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

BejaProphet wrote: »

I truely sympathize with the frustration expressed in the original post. But...are we seriously suggesting we don’t put interesting story in dungeons?

The position of intentionally making dungeons less interesting is a non starter. The fact that you are frustrated and wish you could do them actually proves the story should be there. It is an attraction to the content.

I disagree.
Putting stories in dungeons is simply taking parts of the story away from people who don't play dungeons (whatever their reasons).
PvP has no story, do you think PvP should involve story ?

Large parts of PvP does involve story. There are story quests in Cyrodiil, and in the imperial city expansion heavily.

But since that was only an anecdotal point you were making, let me go back to the heart of it. If you were going into a delve, no matter how awesome the monsters you would ALWAYS appreciate that delve more if it contained a good story.

Surely you would concede that one point?

Well the exact same thing is true for all content. We will always appreciate dungeons more for a good story being included. Not every last players mind you, but as a community we always will. Always.

The developers are not ever going to intentionally make the dungeons less interesting on purpose. Realize this is what you are asking. You are asking the developers to make dungeons less interesting because you don’t do them.

The request to remove story from dungeons will simply never happen. As I said, I can sympathize with your view, but it really is that cut and dry. The developers will never do what you are asking.

And anybody who is actually interested in dungeon content won’t want them to do so.

Contaminate · January 2020

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

And that kind of attitude just confirms that ESO was never for you.

Do you really need to be so rude to someone who politely and factually expresses their wishes ? It's because of people like you that so many players just prefer to play solo.

frozzzen101 wrote: »

Casdha wrote: »

I personally would like to know who the "They" is they referred to in the clip that was asking for more story integration.
I've never seen a single post on these forums about wanting more story integration for group dungeons. Every post I've seen on the subject has been to the contrary.

You know, I'm tired of posts like yours demanding that what little of enjoyable game content comes out be lowered to roleplayer level. Honestly, I can't fully enjoy overland content because it's so easy that most of the bosses die before they even get their dialogue out and die before I finish full rotation. I can't get immersed in story if I know that my base hp regen will outheal anything mobs can throw at me, so only place where I can experience decent story is in difficult content. I know all stock responses, and you know what? I couldn't care less about any of them. You also probably know all the stock responses I might tell you. Are you with a straight face telling me that you cannot organize a group for story run for two normal dungeons to get the full story in 3 months before chapter comes out? Seriously?

Since you ask, it's obvious that, NO, you don't know all the answers on stock and you haven't considered all possible points of view. And since you talk about immersion, let me explain why story in group dungeons is out of place :
I am a very social person with several guilds and plenty of guildmates. I can find a group with people also wishing to go slow and enjoy the story any time. But I simply cannot enjoy and feel immersed in the story while I know that people might be "waiting for me". Even if they agreed to it. If I run in a group, I am focused on my group members - not the story. Furthermore, most times we will sit in TeamSpeak or Discord and guess what ? People talk, in there. Best case scenario, they talk about the dungeon and its story (preventing me from getting my own immersion), worst case scenario, they talk about their cat playing with the keyboard and how cute it is, or about their grandma being sick, whatever. Goodbye immersion.
Stories have nothing to do in group dungeons.

Casdha wrote: »

I personally would like to know who the "They" is they referred to in the clip that was asking for more story integration.
I've never seen a single post on these forums about wanting more story integration for group dungeons. Every post I've seen on the subject has been to the contrary.

It's most probably the marketing and monetization people. People who play for the story are usually the completionist type and want all of it. So most of them will buy the DLC or a month of ESO+ to make sure they got it all. Which they would not do if it was purely combat-related.

Furthermore, the "year-long-story" presentation is an efficient way of masking that the initial "4 updates a year" has become "2 updates + 4 dungeons a year" - which is only half of the promised rhythm of updates. At least, in the eye of people who don't (primarily) play dungeons, which I believe to be the vast majority of players.

I watched the @Alcast part of the post-announcement stream and he was pretty straightforward in telling the devs that their strategy about dungeons (length, difficulty, story, and also rewards/incentives) was mismatched. Let's hope they listen...

Then go play a single player game. You’re asking for one in an MMO, so obviously you’re in the wrong genre of game.

Seraphayel · January 2020

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

I'd just like to see a "story mode".

Can be done solo, and yes, I'd be happy for it to feature ZERO rewards.

I suspect more than a few people would support this call. It's just that we want to take in the lore.

I'm more than happy to play for no rewards, as the story itself IS the the reward in this case.

I don’t really see how hard this would be honestly.

Besides a handful of bosses that require teamwork most of the dungeons can be soloed and it’s just a thing of scaling up characters or scaling down mobs.

MerguezMan · January 2020

This is pure nonsense.

ESO has always been advertised as "multiplayer online" game.

You are complaining that a part of a multiplayer game has to be completed with a group of players...
What's next ? There is no "offline" mode ?

There is a part of the game which is solo, but you do realize it's not the core thing, when you see other players constantly running around you in that same multiplayer online world.

If you expect a game that is 100% soloable in TES universe, get the single-player Skyrim game, Oblivion, Morrowind, Arena, Daggerfall, or wait for TES 6.

If you are just here for the lore, go into wikis or watch videos, you will find the same information.

Olauron · January 2020

Contaminate wrote: »

Then go play a single player game. You’re asking for one in an MMO, so obviously you’re in the wrong genre of game.

MMO means that you can play with other players (as opposed to single player game where you can't). It doesn't mean that you must. Most of content in ESO can be played solo. So maybe it is you who are in the wrong game.

Elsonso · January 2020

O_LYKOS wrote: »

I'm not even apart of this thread and i've been spammed with emails for notifications everytime someone commented

Well, you are a part of it now! Welcome!

code65536 wrote: »

All dungeons and trials have stories. And need to have stories. Why are we here? Why are we fighting these guys? Etc.

So they could either invent entirely new standalone stories for each dungeon (which is what they did with the earlier DLCs). Or they could invent stories that relate to a central thing.

Yes. I am pretty sure that this is what is happening. Rather than going off and creating a separate story for the dungeon, one that is unrelated to anything else that is happening, they are going to make the story related to what is happening during the year.

The world event for the Chapter will be a variation of the dark anchor or geyser called a harrowstorm. The first DLC will introduce players to the harrowstorm by going to Icereach, which is apparently related to them. Going there reveals the backstory for these things. The other part of the story is the whole Vampire thing, and the backstory for the events in the chapter seem to get started in Unhallowed Grave.

The stories these places tell are not going to be deep stories, being that they limited to a dungeon. They are just going to set the scene after what we saw in the cinematic. In both cases, I expect that players who do not participate in those dungeons will be able to catch up with the story through other means, like prologue quests or lore books.

I think that the worry over this is unfounded. People may miss the experience, but they won't miss the story. If ZOS told some other story in the first two dungeons, completely unrelated to the main story, then you would still be getting the same background from the prologue or lore books. All they are doing here is offering a way for the people who buy the DLC and do the dungeon to experience this little part of the story first hand. I am perfectly fine with that. I don't have to be personally part of everything that happens in Tamriel.

anitajoneb17_ESO · January 2020

Contaminate wrote: »

Then go play a single player game. You’re asking for one in an MMO, so obviously you’re in the wrong genre of game.

aka "agree with me or GTFO"... what a nice attitude.

There are TONS of players (including me) who have been enjoying ESO for YEARS for everything not combat-related. I'm even ready to bet we are the majority. If we followed your "kind advice" we'd all go away and the servers would be shut down. Is this what you want ?

BejaProphet wrote: »

Large parts of PvP does involve story. There are story quests in Cyrodiil, and in the imperial city expansion heavily.

LoL have you played the Cyrodiil quests for real ? Those are fetch quests, not story quests.
You're partly right for the IC quests. However, in IC, we can arrange our very own personal "story mode" by going there at times when IC is empty - it's the players there that are dangerous, the mobs are quite easily soloable.
We cannot do this in a 4-man dungeon.

BejaProphet wrote: »

We will always appreciate dungeons more for a good story being included. Not every last players mind you, but as a community we always will. Always.

"always", "everyone", "anyone", "noone"... you are involving quite a lot of always, never and everywhere in your argumentation.
All I can tell is that I 've never, EVER encountered a hardcore player who was interested in the dungeon story, and if they are, they run it in normal mode with people like me.
I've never EVER seen anyone caring for the story in a veteran dungeon (and, mind you, I've run TONS of them before giving up around 2018).
Finally, if you insist that you need a story to enjoy the FIRST run of a dungeon that you'll run a gazillion time anyway without taking care of said story, so be it, fine, but instating a soloable easy story mode with no rewards would not take anything away from you (and would not cost ZOS a lot of resources).
It's a perfectly fair and legit request.

Olauron · January 2020

MerguezMan wrote: »

There is a part of the game which is solo, but you do realize it's not the core thing, when you see other players constantly running around you in that same multiplayer online world.

Do you even know that main content (main quest, guild quests, some alliance story quests, some chapter story quests) can be played only solo?

BejaProphet · January 2020

I think some of the “pro-story in dungeon” group is being unfair. To be clear, I am for story content in dungeons. But ZOS has repeatedly stated that they mean for ESO to be attractive even to those players who want to treat it as a single player game and just quest by their lonesome.

Asking to remove stories from dungeons is unreasonable. But it is equally unreasonable to invalidate a different play style that the developers explicitly say is a target audience.

max_only · January 2020

Every time they do this they get complaints. Those of you who are new to the forums don’t remember the stress the Dragonstone caused.

We’ve been asking even before that.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/423339/story-mode

TheImperfect · January 2020

I have made the mistake of PUG dungeons that I have not been to before. Got group's who wanted to just speed run through, skipping entire areas. Will redo them with questers at some point. I really think there should be 2 options in the group finder. A casual option for just running dungeon and a role play and completionist option for people who want to do it thoroughly and slowly.

Contaminate · January 2020

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Contaminate wrote: »

Then go play a single player game. You’re asking for one in an MMO, so obviously you’re in the wrong genre of game.

aka "agree with me or GTFO"... what a nice attitude.

There are TONS of players (including me) who have been enjoying ESO for YEARS for everything not combat-related. I'm even ready to bet we are the majority. If we followed your "kind advice" we'd all go away and the servers would be shut down. Is this what you want ?
.

You can enjoy your casual questing by avoiding other players, and it’s still not a solo experience except for the main story and guild quests. I cannot enjoy that boring of an experience. There’s no threat, no immersion, and no interest.

I enjoy running dungeons with my friends. You don’t want to work with other people in a multiplayer game and insist a brand new Harmless mode be introduced for at best one or two runs through.

There’s no fear of servers goes down as long as whales keep feeding the crown crate scams. Use a tiny bit of effort and make a group from people from this thread if you really desperately need to experience the tiny bit of inconsequential context to whatever prologue comes out.

Neither of the dungeons in Elswyer’s “year long story” had any relevance at all to the actual story of Elsweyr. You got one extra line during the prologue and that was it.

MerguezMan · January 2020

Olauron wrote: »

MerguezMan wrote: »

There is a part of the game which is solo, but you do realize it's not the core thing, when you see other players constantly running around you in that same multiplayer online world.

Do you even know that main content (main quest, guild quests, some alliance story quests, some chapter story quests) can be played only solo?

I do. I wouldn't call these quests "main content".
There are about 30 solo-only quests out of 2000+ in-game quests.
None is repeatable on the same character.
There were probably topics about making these quests multiplayer at the time of their release, with very good arguments.

Would you say out loud that about 0.015% of the content is the core of the experience ?

Olauron · January 2020

MerguezMan wrote: »

I do. I wouldn't call these quests "main content".
There are about 30 solo-only quests out of 2000+ in-game quests.
None is repeatable on the same character.
There were probably topics about making these quests multiplayer at the time of their release, with very good arguments.

Would you say out loud that about 0.015% of the content is the core of the experience ?

I would say that main quest in a story-rich game is the core of the experience. I would say that guild quests in the Elder Scrolls game is the core of the experience. I would say that the conflict resolution quests (like end quests of Northern Elsweyr, Southern Elsweyr and combined Elsweyr) is the core of the experience.

anitajoneb17_ESO · January 2020

Contaminate wrote: »

You can enjoy your casual questing by avoiding other players, and it’s still not a solo experience except for the main story and guild quests. I cannot enjoy that boring of an experience. There’s no threat, no immersion, and no interest.

Learn to Read ?
Casual questing does not equate "avoiding other players". It equates "avoiding hard combat". Some people even enjoy avoiding combat at all.
I do combat when I have to, but it's definitely not what has been keeping me in this game for 5+ years. And I'm not the only one.

If my point was to avoid other players, then yes, I should go single-player. But that's not my point.

Contaminate wrote: »

Use a tiny bit of effort and make a group from people

Learn to Read again ?
I've explained that I have plenty of social relationships in the game, no issues with finding a slow, "story-mode" group, but it's still impossible to get immersed in a story while playing in a group. Won't explain again.

anitajoneb17_ESO · January 2020

MerguezMan wrote: »

I do. I wouldn't call these quests "main content".

So it's called "main quest" but you choose to NOT call it main content ?

Shaking my head...

anitajoneb17_ESO · January 2020

BejaProphet wrote: »

I think some of the “pro-story in dungeon” group is being unfair. To be clear, I am for story content in dungeons. But ZOS has repeatedly stated that they mean for ESO to be attractive even to those players who want to treat it as a single player game and just quest by their lonesome.

Asking to remove stories from dungeons is unreasonable. But it is equally unreasonable to invalidate a different play style that the developers explicitly say is a target audience.

We're not actually asking to remove stories from dungeoons. We'er asking
- either for a solo, story mode for dungeons
- OR that the stories in dungeons are stand-alone stories (like all dungeon stories of the base-game dungeons).

MerguezMan · January 2020

Olauron wrote: »

MerguezMan wrote: »

I do. I wouldn't call these quests "main content".
There are about 30 solo-only quests out of 2000+ in-game quests.
None is repeatable on the same character.
There were probably topics about making these quests multiplayer at the time of their release, with very good arguments.

Would you say out loud that about 0.015% of the content is the core of the experience ?

I would say that main quest in a story-rich game is the core of the experience. I would say that guild quests in the Elder Scrolls game is the core of the experience. I would say that the conflict resolution quests (like end quests of Northern Elsweyr, Southern Elsweyr and combined Elsweyr) is the core of the experience.

This is IMO again a complete nonsense.

What makes TES games different is the possibility to ignore main quest, get lost in overland for countless hours, and still find plenty to do, simply running around whithout real purpose, or questing here and there.

Take that away, and you're left with an on-track scripted game you could complete in 10 hours.

In Skyrim, most players could spend the first hundreds of hours not doing the main quest. And only after that realize there is a "dragon shout" skill. I really doubt you could find many players that would agree main quest only is the core of the game.

In TESOnline, the solo-only part is more a tutorial to make you comfortable with game mechanics, so you can join other players afterwards.

And btw, Elsweyr quests are soloable, not solo-only.

Klad · January 2020

MerguezMan wrote: »

This is pure nonsense.

ESO has always been advertised as "multiplayer online" game.

You are complaining that a part of a multiplayer game has to be completed with a group of players...
What's next ? There is no "offline" mode ?

There is a part of the game which is solo, but you do realize it's not the core thing, when you see other players constantly running around you in that same multiplayer online world.

If you expect a game that is 100% soloable in TES universe, get the single-player Skyrim game, Oblivion, Morrowind, Arena, Daggerfall, or wait for TES 6.

If you are just here for the lore, go into wikis or watch videos, you will find the same information.

I can name several MMO's that took your advice...funny there MMo's are no longer in Business. honestly, you can keep your precious Trials

What a metric crap ton of the community is complaining about is, until the last expansion everyone could enjoy the story line, now if we ant to finish the Expansion we're at the mercy of a bunch of jerks screaming GOGOGOGO,

And everyone knows that's what will happen...I was listening to a group of said jerks plans for starting just to grief players on Reddit last night...so yeah we can go somewhere else, and players can invest the considerable amount they spend here into one of the upcoming MMo's coming out this year.

Olauron · January 2020

MerguezMan wrote: »

This is IMO again a complete nonsense.

What makes TES games different is the possibility to ignore main quest, get lost in overland for countless hours, and still find plenty to do, simply running around whithout real purpose, or questing here and there.

Take that away, and you're left with an on-track scripted game you could complete in 10 hours.

In Skyrim, most players could spend the first hundreds of hours not doing the main quest. And only after that realize there is a "dragon shout" skill. I really doubt you could find many players that would agree main quest only is the core of the game.

In TESOnline, the solo-only part is more a tutorial to make you comfortable with game mechanics, so you can join other players afterwards.

And btw, Elsweyr quests are soloable, not solo-only.

You know, it is possible in any game. Skyrim is not unique in this regard. In any game you can spend hundreds of hours doing nothing. Still it is not the core of the game. Yes, you can craft in Skyrim... as well as in ESO. It is not the core of the experience. You can wander and make screenshots in Skyrim... as well as in ESO. It is not the core of the experience. In Skyrim you can do different quest chains in different order, and it is true in ESO, and that is what makes Skyrim and ESO unique. But main quest is still the main chain and without it you will have no idea of the biggest conflict of that time in the history of Tamriel.

You are wrong. All three endings of Elsweyr, as well as the end of Crystal-like-Law (i don't remember Vvardenfell ending so will not speak of it) are solo instances.

MerguezMan · January 2020

Klad wrote: »

MerguezMan wrote: »

This is pure nonsense.

ESO has always been advertised as "multiplayer online" game.

You are complaining that a part of a multiplayer game has to be completed with a group of players...
What's next ? There is no "offline" mode ?

There is a part of the game which is solo, but you do realize it's not the core thing, when you see other players constantly running around you in that same multiplayer online world.

If you expect a game that is 100% soloable in TES universe, get the single-player Skyrim game, Oblivion, Morrowind, Arena, Daggerfall, or wait for TES 6.

If you are just here for the lore, go into wikis or watch videos, you will find the same information.

I can name several MMO's that took your advice...funny there MMo's are no longer in Business. You can keep your precious Trials What a metric crap ton of the community is complaining about is, until the last expansion everyone could enjoy the story line, notw we hand it over to a bunch of jerks screaming GOGOGOGO,

I was listening t to a group of said jerks plans for starting just to grief players on Reddit last night...so yeah we can go somewhere else.

And players can invest the considerable amount they spend into one of the upcoming MMo's coming out this year.

Please don't make me say what I didn't.

OP is complaining that in ESO, he can't 100% solo the game.
I don't agree with that, as it would make the overall game too easy, and as its at the opposite design of a multiplayer game.

Those MMOs that disappeared... Do you think just making them soloable would have saved them ?
Would you still call it MMO if you can 100% clear it solo, offline ?

Olauron wrote: »

MerguezMan wrote: »

This is IMO again a complete nonsense.

What makes TES games different is the possibility to ignore main quest, get lost in overland for countless hours, and still find plenty to do, simply running around whithout real purpose, or questing here and there.

Take that away, and you're left with an on-track scripted game you could complete in 10 hours.

In Skyrim, most players could spend the first hundreds of hours not doing the main quest. And only after that realize there is a "dragon shout" skill. I really doubt you could find many players that would agree main quest only is the core of the game.

In TESOnline, the solo-only part is more a tutorial to make you comfortable with game mechanics, so you can join other players afterwards.

And btw, Elsweyr quests are soloable, not solo-only.

You know, it is possible in any game. Skyrim is not unique in this regard. In any game you can spend hundreds of hours doing nothing. Still it is not the core of the game. Yes, you can craft in Skyrim... as well as in ESO. It is not the core of the experience. You can wander and make screenshots in Skyrim... as well as in ESO. It is not the core of the experience. In Skyrim you can do different quest chains in different order, and it is true in ESO, and that is what makes Skyrim and ESO unique. But main quest is still the main chain and without it you will have no idea of the biggest conflict of that time in the history of Tamriel.

You are wrong. All three endings of Elsweyr, as well as the end of Crystal-like-Law (i don't remember Vvardenfell ending so will not speak of it) are solo instances.

Again, please don't make me say what I didn't.

Skyrim is not unique, indeed. It's an open-world solo game, what you see in adverts: "Skyrim reimagines and revolutionizes the open-world fantasy epic, bringing to life a complete virtual world open for you to explore any way you choose."

ESO is not unique, either. It's an MMO. That's probably the first thing you see when trying to purchase it: "(...) Join over 13 million players in the award-winning online multiplayer RPG and experience an ever-expanding story in a persistent Elder Scrolls world."

I don't say solo-only quests are a bad thing, it's probably the best way designers found to tell the main story questline.

I'm saying the core experience of TES games is exploration. And that ESO is by design a multiplayer experience.

IMO, complaining a multiplayer always-online game asks you to play with other players is nonsense.
It's like complaining there is some violence in a fighting game.

Elsonso · January 2020

max_only wrote: »

Every time they do this they get complaints. Those of you who are new to the forums don’t remember the stress the Dragonstone caused.

We’ve been asking even before that.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/423339/story-mode

Sorry if I sound dismissive, but while the feature would be cool, I just don't see it happening. There are cheaper alternatives. I could be wrong. Maybe ZOS thinks this is something that ESO needs and will eventually deliver it.

The reason that I don't think they will go for this is that they know, and have said, that ES lore is passed from person to person, not necessarily experienced directly. If a person cannot experience what happened, they learn it from those who did, or from those who heard it from those who did. It is too easy to just write a lore book about what happened in a dungeon quest, or just add that information as part of a prologue quest, when that lore is needed for something in the future.

That may not be what is being asked for, but my gut instinct is that this is what you get.

mrsrobot wrote: »

I have made the mistake of PUG dungeons that I have not been to before. Got group's who wanted to just speed run through, skipping entire areas. Will redo them with questers at some point. I really think there should be 2 options in the group finder. A casual option for just running dungeon and a role play and completionist option for people who want to do it thoroughly and slowly.

A check box saying "I want to do the quest" would be a nice addition to the LFG. LFG would also have to have a similar one saying "I am OK with people who want to do the quest". I wonder whether such a feature would just result in long queues while someone waits for a specific dungeon with people willing to wait while they do the quest.

zvavi · January 2020

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

LoL have you played the Cyrodiil quests for real ? Those are fetch quests, not story quests.

This is how i feel about overland quests, entities that endanger the world and die with two slaps just don't feel like it is real story. It feels fake. It feels like i was running around for no reason to smack a bug.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

All I can tell is that I 've never, EVER encountered a hardcore player who was interested in the dungeon story, and if they are, they run it in normal mode with people like me.
I've never EVER seen anyone caring for the story in a veteran dungeon (and, mind you, I've run TONS of them before giving up around 2018).
Finally, if you insist that you need a story to enjoy the FIRST run of a dungeon that you'll run a gazillion time anyway without taking care of said story, so be it, fine, but instating a soloable easy story mode with no rewards would not take anything away from you (and would not cost ZOS a lot of resources).
It's a perfectly fair and legit request.

Few points you got wrong.
1. Even if i am interested in the story, i will not run it on normal, no reason to, if anything on vet it is much more immersive and the characters actually feel like they matter.
2. A lot of the story happens during the run. Characters talk. Scalecaller wouldnt be the same without the agonizing cry at the end "i was so close".
3. Again, you say that story makes the dungeon enjoyable only the first time. It is entirely wrong, the characters, their sentences, they are all there to create the atmosphere, the sentences are also neat and are enjoyable to use. I specifically like "he left me, abandoned me, but now i serve another" and sometimes i use it with the small change of "you" instead of "he".
4. I was never against the idea of solo mode, as long as it doesn't make group finder to f*** up more, and doesn't create more lag. Problem is? I dont trust zos to implant it without hurting my gameplay. I am PC EU player, and i dont like shooting own foot.

Olauron · January 2020

MerguezMan wrote: »

I'm saying the core experience of TES games is exploration. And that ESO is by design a multiplayer experience.

IMO, complaining a multiplayer always-online game asks you to play with other players is nonsense.
It's like complaining there is some violence in a fighting game.

Can't agree with this. Exploration is a part but it is not a core. You have the same opportunities to explore game world in Baldurs Gate, Might & Magic, Fallout, Pillars of Eternity, etc.

ESO is indeed multiplayer. As I said in the neighbouring topic, that means that I can play with other players if I want, not that I must even if I don't want. ESO may indeed ask me to play with others. And I can refuse. That is and was from the release the very soul of ESO. I could completely ignore other players while doing quests except when I need to kill the same quest boss as the other player. Then I just think of him as an NPC. Even more, when I was doing my two other (non-home) alliances quests in the Vet zones 99% of time I was the only one. I could see other player characters two or three times a day in a town and that was great.