My biggest gripe about Dark Heart (Story in Group DLC)

XomRhoK

A little bit offtopic.
For all who want to do dungeons on his own pace, there is some sort of alternative. At Spazzychalk Gaming youtube channel there is all or almost all dungeons as a Lore Movies, with all dialogs, all books. Usually i try to do dungeon solo for story, but if due to mechanics i can't solo it i watch Lore Movie first and then do this dungeon through LFG in game. There are other youtube channels with same type of content, but this, i found, have more recent dungeons too.

Elsonso

Olauron wrote: »

MerguezMan wrote: »

I'm saying the core experience of TES games is exploration. And that ESO is by design a multiplayer experience.

IMO, complaining a multiplayer always-online game asks you to play with other players is nonsense.
It's like complaining there is some violence in a fighting game.

Can't agree with this. Exploration is a part but it is not a core. You have the same opportunities to explore game world in Baldurs Gate, Might & Magic, Fallout, Pillars of Eternity, etc.

Just because you can do something in another game does not mean it is not core. Yes, I consider exploration to be a core experience in Elder Scrolls. Without it, there is really no reason to strike out on an adventure in these games. You would never to leave Seyda Neen, and you would not stick around the Imperial City after escaping, and you definitely would not stay in Skyrim with the crazy imperials that want to lop off your head. It is what drives people to find skyshards, lore books, survey locations and chests (without addons and internet). It is why so many places exist in TES 3, 4, and 5 that are off the main quests, and don't even have quests associated with them. It is how you meet Angi in Skyrim.

Casdha

OK got to correct some things,
1. I never said I wanted story to be removed from Group dungeons I said I didn't understand why they are doing it the way they are, meaning in one breath they say even a new player can jump right in and start playing anywhere they wish yet the first piece of content for the year is a group dungeon dlc which is some of the hardest content in the game for a new player to jump into.

2. When I stated that I think fans of group dungeons would rather have a third dungeon than have development time wasted placing meaningful content in group dungeons, I should have said resources and been more clear about what I was thinking. I was thinking cash spent on top tier voice actors from game launch and stuff like that.

3. My personal fight is not for a Story mode (although I wouldn't scoff at one being added) I simply ask that Normal on Group DLCs be no harder than Launch Dungeons without the group count checks (something another player has to break or targeted one shots with little to no warning). You already have Vet and Hard modes if you want a group challenge. I've soloed most of the Group dungeons that can be on Normal and a couple of them on VET, so don't assume it is an I can't play issue. Also, I have run dungeons with groups but I have never run a group dungeon for the first time with a group of people who are also running it for the first time, at least not since Beta. If I have to plan that much I've found that I'd rather run it solo or just not at all.

4.IMHO NPC Story content in PvP is not meaningful and never has been nor should it be. The players themselves are the story in PvP, it is a war after all. So don't drag this into the conversation at least on my part. I like PvP, I just don't play it much anymore.

5. I'm not whining or crying to get my way, I state what I'd like to see and what I will and will not spend money on. Everyone has that right and if the majority falls the other direction it is no skin off my back. I'm simply letting them know as a player where my thoughts lie. For the record, I canceled my $140 ESO+ sub yesterday and I have not pre-ordered the chapter, If you like the content by all means go and buy it. That will mean the game is still running if I do decide to play new content at some point in the future, for now I'll live with what I've got,,,,, see there, I never said I'd quit playing. I'm just not gonna spend money on something I don't want to spend it on.

Linaleah

XomRhoK wrote: »

A little bit offtopic.
For all who want to do dungeons on his own pace, there is some sort of alternative. At Spazzychalk Gaming youtube channel there is all or almost all dungeons as a Lore Movies, with all dialogs, all books. Usually i try to do dungeon solo for story, but if due to mechanics i can't solo it i watch Lore Movie first and then do this dungeon through LFG in game. There are other youtube channels with same type of content, but this, i found, have more recent dungeons too.

this is NOT an alternative, i'm sorry but its not. why, you ask? because i'm not the one going though. I'm not the one controlling the camera or the pace. there is a great deal of difference between watching someone play and playing yourself.

HackTheMinotaur

MerguezMan wrote: »

This is pure nonsense.

ESO has always been advertised as "multiplayer online" game.

You are complaining that a part of a multiplayer game has to be completed with a group of players...
What's next ? There is no "offline" mode ?

The advertising has also said "Play as You Want" and even "Play by Yourself or With A Group" (something to that effect, I don't remember the exact wording).

I don't see these as being mutually exclusive. A story mode for dungeons doesn't have to remove the story from Normal and Veteran versions. Just make it a tiered system with different rewards and corresponding difficulty scaling.

Story Mode: Mobs have Overland Level HP and attacks (no mechanics that require multiple players) - NO REWARD / Loot
Normal Mode: Mobs have Higher HP and more advanced attacks (some mechanics require grouping) - Blue level Set Gear
Veteran Mode: Mobs have Highest HP and Damage - final Boss has a hard mode with new Mechanics - Purple level set Gear + Monster Helm, Hardmode skins, title achievements, etc.

Honestly, I don't see this as being difficult to implement. ZOS understands that a lot of single-player TES fans play this game, and a system like this would only get them more involved and playing the game longer before getting bored and leaving. I don't see a downside to this for anyone. This would truly be "Play as you want."

Olauron

Elsonso wrote: »

Without it, there is really no reason to strike out on an adventure in these games. You would never to leave Seyda Neen, and you would not stick around the Imperial City after escaping, and you definitely would not stay in Skyrim with the crazy imperials that want to lop off your head. It is what drives people to find skyshards, lore books, survey locations and chests (without addons and internet). It is why so many places exist in TES 3, 4, and 5 that are off the main quests, and don't even have quests associated with them. It is how you meet Angi in Skyrim.

Wait, what? You have a letter to Caius Cosades as a reason to leave Seyda Neen. You have the Amulet of Kings as a reason to leave IC. You have to find a way to help Thalmor in this heretic province of Skyr... well, OK, that was personal goal, but you have to inform the jarls to watch the sky.
Of course there are a lot of places that have nothing to do with main quest or even side quests. You don't know it beforehand. You go there because you may find a quest there or you may find some loot there. That is like the basic gameplay in any RPG - know your surroundings, you may find at least something.

Klad

XomRhoK wrote: »

A little bit offtopic.
For all who want to do dungeons on his own pace, there is some sort of alternative. At Spazzychalk Gaming youtube channel there is all or almost all dungeons as a Lore Movies, with all dialogs, all books. Usually i try to do dungeon solo for story, but if due to mechanics i can't solo it i watch Lore Movie first and then do this dungeon through LFG in game. There are other youtube channels with same type of content, but this, i found, have more recent dungeons too.

Yeah Raider types over at wow have been telling players to STFU and watch it on you tube if they don't like it for years....

Because hey....everyone loves paying money for content they won't see.

idk

TokenIntellect wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Casdha wrote: »

idk wrote: »

• First off OP is a day late and a dollar short. Even the clip OP presented says Zos did this last year as well.

Nope, I fussed about this last year as well and the clip roughly says "last year they liked it and They wanted the story to be even more integrated and we did that and each of the DLCs that we do are all very tied, directly to the story line"

And it seems to have worked very well with very little criticism about it during the year.

I do like how you edited out the rest as it was probably inconvenient to address those two points. No problem

Really, IDK?

As I recall, when they announced the intention to hide story behind dungeon content with the "Year of the Dragon" there were a number of threads asking for ZOS to either change their minds about that and/or add a story mode.

The reason why the OP isn't "a day late and a dollar short" is precisely because the complaint is still relevant. It is exactly the type of substantive critique that ZOS actually asks for: point out what's wrong and offer a potential solution. Just because you like it the way it is doesn't mean other people do or that ZOS is correct in how they're reading the situation.

The truth? A story mode makes more of the content accessible to more people. More people playing more of the time means more money. Even if it only adds a few minutes per week per person that adds up. If ZOS wants people to play as they like, they should actually let people play the way they (the people and not the devs) like.

And those threads died fast.

The truth is, if we are going to discuss the truth, Zos would not continue the new design if it was not financially beneficial.

We vote with our wallets and with these things that is the loudest and most important metric Zos has.

Don’t like it then don’t buy into it. If you did last year then you were part of the loud chorus that Zos heard.

Elsonso

Casdha wrote: »

For the record, I canceled my $140 ESO+ sub yesterday and I have not pre-ordered the chapter, If you like the content by all means go and buy it.

Just an aside, and something to think about in the future, is that the way ESO Plus and pre-orders work, that statement could mean absolutely nothing. Canceling ESO Plus does not terminate your benefits until the subscription actually ends. You can resubscribe at any point before the term ends, with no penalty. Now, I really don't care how much time you have left on your subscription, it could be days, or months. Don't care. The impact is better when you say that you let the subscription end, not that you canceled it.

Likewise, you can pre-order any time up until the chapter ships. Saying you have not pre-ordered, and won't pre-order, when you have four months to change your mind, is not really an impact. Tell us you did not pre-order after it is no longer possible, for best impact.

When I read statements like that, part of me wonders how many secretly change their mind and never tell anyone. This is especially the case with former beta testers that may have been around for a very very long time. It's not like anyone checks up and confirms these things.

Olauron wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Without it, there is really no reason to strike out on an adventure in these games. You would never to leave Seyda Neen, and you would not stick around the Imperial City after escaping, and you definitely would not stay in Skyrim with the crazy imperials that want to lop off your head. It is what drives people to find skyshards, lore books, survey locations and chests (without addons and internet). It is why so many places exist in TES 3, 4, and 5 that are off the main quests, and don't even have quests associated with them. It is how you meet Angi in Skyrim.

Wait, what? You have a letter to Caius Cosades as a reason to leave Seyda Neen. You have the Amulet of Kings as a reason to leave IC. You have to find a way to help Thalmor in this heretic province of Skyr... well, OK, that was personal goal, but you have to inform the jarls to watch the sky.
Of course there are a lot of places that have nothing to do with main quest or even side quests. You don't know it beforehand. You go there because you may find a quest there or you may find some loot there. That is like the basic gameplay in any RPG - know your surroundings, you may find at least something.

It is fine that you know exactly where to find Cassius, or that you know exactly where the Priory is so you can go right there, or that you have been to Whiterun, so notifying the Jarl was like a trip to your favorite grocery store. (I am being sarcastic, of course) When I played those games, they were unknown locations to me. Exploration includes searching for places, information, or resources that are unknown to you.

Just because we are talking about basic RPG gameplay does not mean it is not core. I am not saying that this is something unique to Elder Scrolls. That is not what core means. It means that I have to discover where I am going, both for assigned quest purposes, and for my own purposes.

Casdha

Elsonso wrote: »

Casdha wrote: »

For the record, I canceled my $140 ESO+ sub yesterday and I have not pre-ordered the chapter, If you like the content by all means go and buy it.

Just an aside, and something to think about in the future, is that the way ESO Plus and pre-orders work, that statement could mean absolutely nothing. Canceling ESO Plus does not terminate your benefits until the subscription actually ends. You can resubscribe at any point before the term ends, with no penalty. Now, I really don't care how much time you have left on your subscription, it could be days, or months. Don't care. The impact is better when you say that you let the subscription end, not that you canceled it.

Likewise, you can pre-order any time up until the chapter ships. Saying you have not pre-ordered, and won't pre-order, when you have four months to change your mind, is not really an impact. Tell us you did not pre-order after it is no longer possible, for best impact.

When I read statements like that, part of me wonders how many secretly change their mind and never tell anyone. This is especially the case with former beta testers that may have been around for a very very long time. It's not like anyone checks up and confirms these things.

My sub runs out in 2 weeks
Edit: and I've not played since I finished Dragonhold, they know if I pick it up or not. Whether or not anyone else believes me from the forum has no bearing.

idk

Casdha wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Casdha wrote: »

For the record, I canceled my $140 ESO+ sub yesterday and I have not pre-ordered the chapter, If you like the content by all means go and buy it.

Just an aside, and something to think about in the future, is that the way ESO Plus and pre-orders work, that statement could mean absolutely nothing. Canceling ESO Plus does not terminate your benefits until the subscription actually ends. You can resubscribe at any point before the term ends, with no penalty. Now, I really don't care how much time you have left on your subscription, it could be days, or months. Don't care. The impact is better when you say that you let the subscription end, not that you canceled it.

Likewise, you can pre-order any time up until the chapter ships. Saying you have not pre-ordered, and won't pre-order, when you have four months to change your mind, is not really an impact. Tell us you did not pre-order after it is no longer possible, for best impact.

When I read statements like that, part of me wonders how many secretly change their mind and never tell anyone. This is especially the case with former beta testers that may have been around for a very very long time. It's not like anyone checks up and confirms these things.

My sub runs out in 2 weeks
Edit: and I've not played since I finished Dragonhold, they know if I pick it up or not. Whether or not anyone else believes me from the forum has no bearing.

Great. However it’s only meaningful to cancel ones sub and say they have not purchased the chapter is they never reactivate that sub and never buy the chapter or related DLCs until and unless Zos ceased the behavior your protesting.

Otherwise it’s not noticeable.

XomRhoK

Linaleah wrote: »

XomRhoK wrote: »

A little bit offtopic.
For all who want to do dungeons on his own pace, there is some sort of alternative. At Spazzychalk Gaming youtube channel there is all or almost all dungeons as a Lore Movies, with all dialogs, all books. Usually i try to do dungeon solo for story, but if due to mechanics i can't solo it i watch Lore Movie first and then do this dungeon through LFG in game. There are other youtube channels with same type of content, but this, i found, have more recent dungeons too.

this is NOT an alternative, i'm sorry but its not. why, you ask? because i'm not the one going though. I'm not the one controlling the camera or the pace. there is a great deal of difference between watching someone play and playing yourself.

Klad wrote: »

XomRhoK wrote: »

A little bit offtopic.
For all who want to do dungeons on his own pace, there is some sort of alternative. At Spazzychalk Gaming youtube channel there is all or almost all dungeons as a Lore Movies, with all dialogs, all books. Usually i try to do dungeon solo for story, but if due to mechanics i can't solo it i watch Lore Movie first and then do this dungeon through LFG in game. There are other youtube channels with same type of content, but this, i found, have more recent dungeons too.

Yeah Raider types over at wow have been telling players to STFU and watch it on you tube if they don't like it for years....

Because hey....everyone loves paying money for content they won't see.

Maybe you both will learn to read first. I said "some sort of alternative" and i do dungeons solo for story. I am with both hands for solo/story mode for dungeons/trials, but with that what we have now people can learn the story of dungeons through this videos, and for base game dungeons they don't need to pay extra.

Casdha

idk wrote: »

Casdha wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Casdha wrote: »

For the record, I canceled my $140 ESO+ sub yesterday and I have not pre-ordered the chapter, If you like the content by all means go and buy it.

Just an aside, and something to think about in the future, is that the way ESO Plus and pre-orders work, that statement could mean absolutely nothing. Canceling ESO Plus does not terminate your benefits until the subscription actually ends. You can resubscribe at any point before the term ends, with no penalty. Now, I really don't care how much time you have left on your subscription, it could be days, or months. Don't care. The impact is better when you say that you let the subscription end, not that you canceled it.

Likewise, you can pre-order any time up until the chapter ships. Saying you have not pre-ordered, and won't pre-order, when you have four months to change your mind, is not really an impact. Tell us you did not pre-order after it is no longer possible, for best impact.

When I read statements like that, part of me wonders how many secretly change their mind and never tell anyone. This is especially the case with former beta testers that may have been around for a very very long time. It's not like anyone checks up and confirms these things.

My sub runs out in 2 weeks
Edit: and I've not played since I finished Dragonhold, they know if I pick it up or not. Whether or not anyone else believes me from the forum has no bearing.

Great. However it’s only meaningful to cancel ones sub and say they have not purchased the chapter is they never reactivate that sub and never buy the chapter or related DLCs until and unless Zos ceased the behavior your protesting.

Otherwise it’s not noticeable.

I've already stated If things go this way I'll reactivate it next year for 3 months instead of a year and play the content once it is considered a DLC. I'm just not gonna pay a premium for it. I have plenty of other games I can catch up on, need to catch up on. I've also stated that Bethesda will still probably get some of that premium pay for the new Doom. It is just that ESO will not.

For explanation, I only focus on one game at a time (it is all I have time for) and that means that it has to be what I really want to play if I'm to play it at launch for the Premium price point. The last time I payed premium price for a game at launch other than ESO (and its chapters and Q4 content) was when RE7 launched. I did buy RE2-remake and Rage 2 at Christmas on sale and have yet to play either of those. I've got about a dozen or more games I've bought on sale that I have yet to play. At present I've been playing the Witcher games and that is in part thanks to Netflix. I wanted to be familiar with the characters even though it based off of the books. On my break since Dragonhold I've also played the main story of FC5 for the first time and finally finished the main story on Dying Light but have yet to play any DLC for it.

TLDR: The direction of this game leaves me with more incentive to skip it than to play it at the premium price point.

Linaleah

XomRhoK wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

XomRhoK wrote: »

A little bit offtopic.
For all who want to do dungeons on his own pace, there is some sort of alternative. At Spazzychalk Gaming youtube channel there is all or almost all dungeons as a Lore Movies, with all dialogs, all books. Usually i try to do dungeon solo for story, but if due to mechanics i can't solo it i watch Lore Movie first and then do this dungeon through LFG in game. There are other youtube channels with same type of content, but this, i found, have more recent dungeons too.

this is NOT an alternative, i'm sorry but its not. why, you ask? because i'm not the one going though. I'm not the one controlling the camera or the pace. there is a great deal of difference between watching someone play and playing yourself.

Klad wrote: »

XomRhoK wrote: »

A little bit offtopic.
For all who want to do dungeons on his own pace, there is some sort of alternative. At Spazzychalk Gaming youtube channel there is all or almost all dungeons as a Lore Movies, with all dialogs, all books. Usually i try to do dungeon solo for story, but if due to mechanics i can't solo it i watch Lore Movie first and then do this dungeon through LFG in game. There are other youtube channels with same type of content, but this, i found, have more recent dungeons too.

Yeah Raider types over at wow have been telling players to STFU and watch it on you tube if they don't like it for years....

Because hey....everyone loves paying money for content they won't see.

Maybe you both will learn to read first. I said "some sort of alternative" and i do dungeons solo for story. I am with both hands for solo/story mode for dungeons/trials, but with that what we have now people can learn the story of dungeons through this videos, and for base game dungeons they don't need to pay extra.

I've read your "some sort of alternative" statement and i'm replaying that no, its not even some sort of alternative. its no alternative at all.

neither is "solo a group dungeon" because not everyone can. heck, not everyone can solo base game dungeons, let alone DLC ones that are significantly harder on both normal and vet.

Klad

XomRhoK wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

XomRhoK wrote: »

A little bit offtopic.
For all who want to do dungeons on his own pace, there is some sort of alternative. At Spazzychalk Gaming youtube channel there is all or almost all dungeons as a Lore Movies, with all dialogs, all books. Usually i try to do dungeon solo for story, but if due to mechanics i can't solo it i watch Lore Movie first and then do this dungeon through LFG in game. There are other youtube channels with same type of content, but this, i found, have more recent dungeons too.

this is NOT an alternative, i'm sorry but its not. why, you ask? because i'm not the one going though. I'm not the one controlling the camera or the pace. there is a great deal of difference between watching someone play and playing yourself.

Klad wrote: »

XomRhoK wrote: »

A little bit offtopic.
For all who want to do dungeons on his own pace, there is some sort of alternative. At Spazzychalk Gaming youtube channel there is all or almost all dungeons as a Lore Movies, with all dialogs, all books. Usually i try to do dungeon solo for story, but if due to mechanics i can't solo it i watch Lore Movie first and then do this dungeon through LFG in game. There are other youtube channels with same type of content, but this, i found, have more recent dungeons too.

Yeah Raider types over at wow have been telling players to STFU and watch it on you tube if they don't like it for years....

Because hey....everyone loves paying money for content they won't see.

Maybe you both will learn to read first. I said "some sort of alternative" and i do dungeons solo for story. I am with both hands for solo/story mode for dungeons/trials, but with that what we have now people can learn the story of dungeons through this videos, and for base game dungeons they don't need to pay extra.

Perhaps you should learn what a rhetorical observation is, before questioning someone literacy.

Nord_Raseri

It would be nice to have a solo version of each dungeon. By solo, I don't mean easy RP mode(like overland), I mean more like without group mechanics, and maybe slightly smaller health pools. Like soloing blackheart, but without the 'being turned into a skeleton...

Klad

Nord_Raseri wrote: »

It would be nice to have a solo version of each dungeon. By solo, I don't mean easy RP mode(like overland), I mean more like without group mechanics, and maybe slightly smaller health pools. Like soloing blackheart, but without the 'being turned into a skeleton...

To be honest...I would much rather see a two player co-op mode , and a four man mode with the option of a group instance in all non-trial Dungeons.

I'm currently in a Friends and Family Alpha for Pearl Abyss , and all Dungeons except High end 8 man Raids have the option of running the Dungeon in public mode or instanced mode for two to four other players.

The Dungeons scale and most folks seem exceedingly happy with this.

max_only

What does it matter if other people get story mode? Why are you arguing against it? How does it effect you if other people run something solo?

MerguezMan

max_only wrote: »

What does it matter if other people get story mode? Why are you arguing against it? How does it effect you if other people run something solo?

It is a first step in the wrong direction for development effort.

Let's say the next quarter will be about rebalancing the game to make all dungeons and trials soloable.
Then people will ask for loot in those versions (yeah, why not ?).
Then people will ask for veteran version of those (Hey, vMA exists).
Then...

But in the meantime, this also means you have to rebalance multiplayer pve, and pvp side of things.

And all those efforts can't go into server optimization for multiplayer, because you just multiplied the number of solo instances supported by server...

We know development effort is something we can only have in limited quantities.
Do you really think pushing it towards solo content, instead of multiplayer content, is a good idea ?
Considering TES 6 will arrive sooner or later, and bring away those solo players, leaving only those here for multiplayer ?

Casdha

MerguezMan wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

What does it matter if other people get story mode? Why are you arguing against it? How does it effect you if other people run something solo?

It is a first step in the wrong direction for development effort.

Let's say the next quarter will be about rebalancing the game to make all dungeons and trials soloable.
Then people will ask for loot in those versions (yeah, why not ?).
Then people will ask for veteran version of those (Hey, vMA exists).
Then...

But in the meantime, this also means you have to rebalance multiplayer pve, and pvp side of things.

And all those efforts can't go into sever optimization for multiplayer, because you just multiplied the number of solo instances supported by server...

We know development effort is something we can only have in limited quantities.
Do you really thing pushing it towards solo content, instead of multiplayer content, is a good idea ?
Considering TES 6 will arrive sooner or later, and bring away those solo players, leaving only those here for multiplayer ?

The servers track you whether you are in a group or solo anyways. Assets for all dungeons are handled on your local machines. Its why folks like me never have lag stutter or crashes, because my rig has the overhead to handle it and I have a fiber connection. Also I have never had a freeze in Cyrodiil even during events, the difference on that may be that I never group in Cyrodiil, that doesn't mean I don't play with guilds, I'm just not part of their group.

Making a solo mode would take very little effort in the grand scheme of things, one more mode that draws from a new table for NPC HP, one for damage done by NPCs and one for loot.

Server optimizations should never be considered a feature of paid content it should be considered a necessity for continued operation. If they aren't doing that then they aren't doing their job. If you take your car to get fixed would you accept a bill for their diagnostic computer to get fixed because they refused to maintain it and it just happen to die when they worked on your car?

myskyrim26

It's almost a year that a lot of players ask for non-reward, non-gear, non-skillpoint solo dungeon mode. But @ZOS don't care.

MerguezMan

Casdha wrote: »

MerguezMan wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

What does it matter if other people get story mode? Why are you arguing against it? How does it effect you if other people run something solo?

It is a first step in the wrong direction for development effort.

Let's say the next quarter will be about rebalancing the game to make all dungeons and trials soloable.
Then people will ask for loot in those versions (yeah, why not ?).
Then people will ask for veteran version of those (Hey, vMA exists).
Then...

But in the meantime, this also means you have to rebalance multiplayer pve, and pvp side of things.

And all those efforts can't go into sever optimization for multiplayer, because you just multiplied the number of solo instances supported by server...

We know development effort is something we can only have in limited quantities.
Do you really thing pushing it towards solo content, instead of multiplayer content, is a good idea ?
Considering TES 6 will arrive sooner or later, and bring away those solo players, leaving only those here for multiplayer ?

The servers track you whether you are in a group or solo anyways. Assets for all dungeons are handled on your local machines. Its why folks like me never have lag stutter or crashes, because my rig has the overhead to handle it and I have a fiber connection. Also I have never had a freeze in Cyrodiil even during events, the difference on that may be that I never group in Cyrodiil, that doesn't mean I don't play with guilds, I'm just not part of their group.

Well, if the game never lags/crashes/freezes, good for you.
I had such trouble even in Maelstrom Arena (both lag, crashes AND freezes).
Going in Cyrodiil on saturdays is a guaranteed crash within 1h (1h when lucky, often less), even out of group.

I'm on fiber connection, xbox version, EU server.
I really hope next update will make things better.

Casdha wrote: »

Making a solo mode would take very little effort in the grand scheme of things, one more mode that draws from a new table for NPC HP, one for damage done by NPCs and one for loot.

Server optimizations should never be considered a feature of paid content it should be considered a necessity for continued operation. If they aren't doing that then they aren't doing their job. If you take your car to get fixed would you accept a bill for their diagnostic computer to get fixed because they refused to maintain it and it just happen to die when they worked on your car?

"very little effort" ... I doubt that. Only someone from ZoS could tell.

About the billing side of things, I totally agree with you. But the legal terms of use clearly state otherwise (Approximate translation = "Zenimax is not held to produce fixes ... Zenimax does not guarantee access nor availability of services ...").

Sevn

frozzzen101 wrote: »

Casdha wrote: »

I never demanded anything, I stated what I didn't like about the direction of the game and offered suggestions based on opinions I've seen for a compromise. I've never suggested that anything that exists be taken out or changed. I have suggested other options be added.

Sure I'm all up for options, but it just won't happen. It would require a lot of resources to do this properly. Solo story mode for dungeons and trials? Unlikely. Veteran overland? Unlikely. So we are in same boat really. We cannot experience content in the fashion we'd like to.

As for your "yes", quite frankly you aren't even trying. I can call in people and make group to do quest run of dungeon any weekend and if people are online and up for it, even weekdays. That you cannot do 40 minutes of content in 100 days is plain bs and if you won't spare 1% of effort to get it done then you deserve to miss on a story. It's not that you can't do it, it's that you don't want to do it.

Didn't read all the comments so I'm unsure if anyone addressed this, but we already have 2 different modes for dungeons, how would adding a 3rd lower difficulty be a strain on resources? It's as simple as reducing their damage output and health bar.

That's not what's being asked for when players ask for overlands difficulty upped with of course better rewards while story mode could have zero additional rewards because experiencing the story is the reward.

Comparing overhauling the entirety of overland to adding additional dungeon levels isn't comparable at all and you know it. The game already supports different difficulties in dungeons because they are instanced, unlike overland. They aren't comparable at all.

Casdha

MerguezMan wrote: »

"very little effort" ... I doubt that. Only someone from ZoS could tell.

as compared to making a new dungeon or even the model for a new NPC

MerguezMan wrote: »

About the billing side of things, I totally agree with you. But the legal terms of use clearly state otherwise (Approximate translation = "Zenimax is not held to produce fixes ... Zenimax does not guarantee access nor availability of services ...").

You are also not bound by a service contract, you can drop service at anytime (just don't expect a refund)

BejaProphet

I think we almost have this sorted, just a few more posts.

Imza

You really really can't please everybody all the time....

Contaminate

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Contaminate wrote: »

You can enjoy your casual questing by avoiding other players, and it’s still not a solo experience except for the main story and guild quests. I cannot enjoy that boring of an experience. There’s no threat, no immersion, and no interest.

Learn to Read ?
Casual questing does not equate "avoiding other players". It equates "avoiding hard combat". Some people even enjoy avoiding combat at all.
I do combat when I have to, but it's definitely not what has been keeping me in this game for 5+ years. And I'm not the only one.

If my point was to avoid other players, then yes, I should go single-player. But that's not my point.

Contaminate wrote: »

Use a tiny bit of effort and make a group from people

Learn to Read again ?
I've explained that I have plenty of social relationships in the game, no issues with finding a slow, "story-mode" group, but it's still impossible to get immersed in a story while playing in a group. Won't explain again.

Yeah sure your multiplayer game’s immersion is ruined by being in a multiplayer experience. Once again, you’re in the wrong genre of you expect to have everything made available to solo without the adequate skill to fulfill the role of four players at once.

If you want to avoid hard combat, then stop asking for hard (loosely used term for normal modes) content to be brought down to an overland questing difficulty. If you want to do everything in this game, you have to participate how it was designed.

This is as pointless a request as PvE Cyrodiil, or PvE Imperial City.

idk

Casdha wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Casdha wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Casdha wrote: »

For the record, I canceled my $140 ESO+ sub yesterday and I have not pre-ordered the chapter, If you like the content by all means go and buy it.

Just an aside, and something to think about in the future, is that the way ESO Plus and pre-orders work, that statement could mean absolutely nothing. Canceling ESO Plus does not terminate your benefits until the subscription actually ends. You can resubscribe at any point before the term ends, with no penalty. Now, I really don't care how much time you have left on your subscription, it could be days, or months. Don't care. The impact is better when you say that you let the subscription end, not that you canceled it.

Likewise, you can pre-order any time up until the chapter ships. Saying you have not pre-ordered, and won't pre-order, when you have four months to change your mind, is not really an impact. Tell us you did not pre-order after it is no longer possible, for best impact.

When I read statements like that, part of me wonders how many secretly change their mind and never tell anyone. This is especially the case with former beta testers that may have been around for a very very long time. It's not like anyone checks up and confirms these things.

My sub runs out in 2 weeks
Edit: and I've not played since I finished Dragonhold, they know if I pick it up or not. Whether or not anyone else believes me from the forum has no bearing.

Great. However it’s only meaningful to cancel ones sub and say they have not purchased the chapter is they never reactivate that sub and never buy the chapter or related DLCs until and unless Zos ceased the behavior your protesting.

Otherwise it’s not noticeable.

I've already stated If things go this way I'll reactivate it next year for 3 months instead of a year and play the content once it is considered a DLC. I'm just not gonna pay a premium for it. I have plenty of other games I can catch up on, need to catch up on. I've also stated that Bethesda will still probably get some of that premium pay for the new Doom. It is just that ESO will not.

For explanation, I only focus on one game at a time (it is all I have time for) and that means that it has to be what I really want to play if I'm to play it at launch for the Premium price point. The last time I payed premium price for a game at launch other than ESO (and its chapters and Q4 content) was when RE7 launched. I did buy RE2-remake and Rage 2 at Christmas on sale and have yet to play either of those. I've got about a dozen or more games I've bought on sale that I have yet to play. At present I've been playing the Witcher games and that is in part thanks to Netflix. I wanted to be familiar with the characters even though it based off of the books. On my break since Dragonhold I've also played the main story of FC5 for the first time and finally finished the main story on Dying Light but have yet to play any DLC for it.

TLDR: The direction of this game leaves me with more incentive to skip it than to play it at the premium price point.

Great to know. As I indicated, if you do reup that ESO+ and buy the chapter at any price you are supporting this design Zos has implemented for a second year. Zos is fully aware that some people will not pre-order the chapter but will buy it on sale. Not to mention there will be a portion of the player base that will just wait for it to become a DLC and not pay extra for it at all.

In the end Zos says thank you for your support.

idk

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

frozzzen101 wrote: »

Casdha wrote: »

I personally would like to know who the "They" is they referred to in the clip that was asking for more story integration.
I've never seen a single post on these forums about wanting more story integration for group dungeons. Every post I've seen on the subject has been to the contrary.

You know, I'm tired of posts like yours demanding that what little of enjoyable game content comes out be lowered to roleplayer level. Honestly, I can't fully enjoy overland content because it's so easy that most of the bosses die before they even get their dialogue out and die before I finish full rotation. I can't get immersed in story if I know that my base hp regen will outheal anything mobs can throw at me, so only place where I can experience decent story is in difficult content. I know all stock responses, and you know what? I couldn't care less about any of them. You also probably know all the stock responses I might tell you. Are you with a straight face telling me that you cannot organize a group for story run for two normal dungeons to get the full story in 3 months before chapter comes out? Seriously?

Since you ask, it's obvious that, NO, you don't know all the answers on stock and you haven't considered all possible points of view. And since you talk about immersion, let me explain why story in group dungeons is out of place :
I am a very social person with several guilds and plenty of guildmates. I can find a group with people also wishing to go slow and enjoy the story any time. But I simply cannot enjoy and feel immersed in the story while I know that people might be "waiting for me". Even if they agreed to it. If I run in a group, I am focused on my group members - not the story. Furthermore, most times we will sit in TeamSpeak or Discord and guess what ? People talk, in there. Best case scenario, they talk about the dungeon and its story (preventing me from getting my own immersion), worst case scenario, they talk about their cat playing with the keyboard and how cute it is, or about their grandma being sick, whatever. Goodbye immersion.
Stories have nothing to do in group dungeons.

Every dungeon in this game has a story so this seems very odd.

So your argument that you are incapable of enjoying the story in 4 man dungeons even when you are in a group specifically formed with like minded players interested in the story seems to be a personal issue., Stories in group dungeons is a common element of MMORPG design and you are literally saying you cannot get immersed in the game when grouped with others in a very absolute statement. It is the very essence of D&D with is pretty much the parent of all of these games.

anitajoneb17_ESO

idk wrote: »

So your argument that you are incapable of enjoying the story in 4 man dungeons even when you are in a group specifically formed with like minded players interested in the story seems to be a personal issue., Stories in group dungeons is a common element of MMORPG design and you are literally saying you cannot get immersed in the game when grouped with others in a very absolute statement. It is the very essence of D&D with is pretty much the parent of all of these games.

D&D is different (as a board game). People have to focus on the game and the story in order to imagine it together. People in a D&D game don't talk about their mother-in-law.

The combined efforts of some people here to tell me (and a few others) that we shouldn't be here at all are amazing. You're telling what we should and should not enjoy, should and should not like, should and should not require, just because the game is stamped "MMO" .. which it actually isn't, Firor having himself described it a "online RPG" rather than "MMORPG".
You're still in full denial that half of this game's population comes from single-player TES games and wouldn't even have touched ESO if not for Skyrim and its predecessors.

Back to dungeon stories : up to Elsweyr and the "year of the dragons", all dungeons had a stand-alone story. I didn't get any of them, not a single one, in spite of having run these dungeons a million times. It doesn't matter since they are stand-alone. stories. But if they're linked to the general overland story, then it's different. We're gonna miss a piece of the story at some stage.

But what the hell am I talking to you about ? All you care for is that ESO fits the "MMORPG" cookie cutter model and anyone wishing for something to be different has a "personal issue". Even if that little something takes nothing away from you at all.