Selling Carries - Group claims Gina was in their Discord and that it is sanctioned

CleymenZero · November 2019

Stratti wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Why would carries be bannable? And its definitely not even P2W. People really need to learn what P2W means before they sling it around. Ive seen it used on this forum dozens of times and never once was the person(s) offended about how ESO was becoming P2W using it correctly.

OK. Since your a genius let us define pay to win.

Using real world money to gain an advantage over players who havent spent that money

Ok. Since you are a genius let us work out whether getting carried through a Vet Trial on HM, receiving gear and titles will allow you to have an advantage... do I really need to.

Problem with people like you is you think slowly and rarely before you post. It is what passes for intelligence for some.

You're joking right? And you're insulting him on top of that?

You have no clue what pay to win is at all...

He, according to you, rarely thinks and still has a better idea of what's going on.

How does a title make you win anything? How have you achieved anything if you paid for the run. Paying for a carry is pay to lose. All you "win" is a skin and some gear you could otherwise get if you're even mildly skilled.

I could go on about this and how stupid your post is but it's late...

Ohtimbar · November 2019

Juhasow wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Also, if you want to make an argument about P2W, you're attacking the wrong link in the chain. You should be calling into question the sale of crowns for gold via the gifting system, since that is what you really have a problem with (actually, this feature is much more toxic for the trade guild bid system than it is for endgame PvE, and @Ixtyr who before he quit the game was a moderator of the ESO reddit and ran one of the prime trade guilds on PC/NA was a very vocal opponent of this for that reason).

So if I understand You correctly @code65536 You're saying that now people are often winning bids on guild traders with gold obtained through gifting ?

That's my impression. It's hard to deny. I don't have a problem with gold for crowns, but in the context of the guild system it certainly can be P2W, at least on paper. I don't know what the actual effects have been, on bids or inflation, but it's potentially problematic.

Juhasow · November 2019

Heelie wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

OneWhomWaits wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

...and even more so the people in the endgame community who cheapen the notion of accomplishment by selling them.

Hey Code. I've been in both guilds and Cores which would not participate in the carry business. I can see your point.

Do you feel that barrier spam has not cheapened the accomplishments in the same way? Do the titles still hold any value at a time when nearly no skill at all is required to obtain them? On any given night you can within less than an hour, and some prodigious barrier spam, accomplish nearly any title you desire.

Is by that logic every godslayer with stacked up necro ults also "cheapened" ? Does it still hold any value ?

Godslayer and the trifecta, at least for the time being, are two very different things. One is getting one shot by pugs. The other takes months of progression.

One year ago You would've said the same about gryphon's gheart. Every piece of content with time will get more accesible. Still that doesnt change the fact that there is a little irony in fact people see extensive usage of barrier as unworthy but at the same time extensive usage of collosus is considered 200 IQ move. I think the reason for that lies in the fact some people cannot tell the difference between achievement run and score run.

Jem_Kindheart · November 2019

There's something fishy going on with the trader stall bidding system. It is odd that so many popup guilds nobody has ever heard of and with low membership are constantly knocking out long established high trading guilds for (expensive) prime stall locations. That's a totally separate thing tho, and something actually worth ZoS's time to perhaps reevaluate.

Juhasow · November 2019

OneWhomWaits wrote: »

A barrier spam is wrapping players into giant balls of bubble wrap. The clear requires very little skill, effort, or execution of mechanics. Some of those clears have over 70 barriers cast.

A necro ult is a damage ult and does not relieve the players of the need to actually perform the mechanics and play intelligently. It will not protect you from damage or any normal trial mechanic.

Try then to bring team packed with stam necro DDs into raid but instead of collosus tell them to use dawnbreaker. If collosus ulti is not changing that much and is not protecting You from anything then there shouldnt be big difference right ? Oh and btw can You tell me the name of any group that completed godslayer without spamming that ulti ?

Heelie · November 2019

Juhasow wrote: »

Heelie wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

OneWhomWaits wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

...and even more so the people in the endgame community who cheapen the notion of accomplishment by selling them.

Hey Code. I've been in both guilds and Cores which would not participate in the carry business. I can see your point.

Do you feel that barrier spam has not cheapened the accomplishments in the same way? Do the titles still hold any value at a time when nearly no skill at all is required to obtain them? On any given night you can within less than an hour, and some prodigious barrier spam, accomplish nearly any title you desire.

Is by that logic every godslayer with stacked up necro ults also "cheapened" ? Does it still hold any value ?

Godslayer and the trifecta, at least for the time being, are two very different things. One is getting one shot by pugs. The other takes months of progression.

One year ago You would've said the same about gryphon's gheart. Every piece of content with time will get more accesible. Still that doesnt change the fact that there is a little irony in fact people see extensive usage of barrier as unworthy but at the same time extensive usage of collosus is considered 200 IQ move. I think the reason for that lies in the fact some people cannot tell the difference between achievement run and score run.

People thought GH was easier than TTT in the summeret patch. By the end of it more people had GH than TTT. Godslayer is nowhere near as easy. And collosus is nowhere near as much an easy mode Ultimate as barrier spam.

You're right the acheivement runs are laughably easy. In my opinion the skill gap from running those to actual score progression is larger than the skill gap from the wailyn prison till the acheivement groups.

Stratti · November 2019

Jem_Kindheart wrote: »

There's something fishy going on with the trader stall bidding system. It is odd that so many popup guilds nobody has ever heard of and with low membership are constantly knocking out long established high trading guilds for (expensive) prime stall locations. That's a totally separate thing tho, and something actually worth ZoS's time to perhaps reevaluate.

It is part of the same issue. They have already created a connection between IRL currency and in-game via Crown exchange. They could have easily squashed that but did not, instead they chose to condone it but not support it. The selling of carries is connected to that. It is all part of the same problem when MMO allow IRL currency to be traded for In game currency. The whole thing about the traders is much more problematic. While I can concede that my issue is more one of principle, rather than impact, the issue with the Traders has real consequences.

themaddaedra · November 2019

Juhasow wrote: »

Heelie wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

OneWhomWaits wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

...and even more so the people in the endgame community who cheapen the notion of accomplishment by selling them.

Hey Code. I've been in both guilds and Cores which would not participate in the carry business. I can see your point.

Do you feel that barrier spam has not cheapened the accomplishments in the same way? Do the titles still hold any value at a time when nearly no skill at all is required to obtain them? On any given night you can within less than an hour, and some prodigious barrier spam, accomplish nearly any title you desire.

Is by that logic every godslayer with stacked up necro ults also "cheapened" ? Does it still hold any value ?

Godslayer and the trifecta, at least for the time being, are two very different things. One is getting one shot by pugs. The other takes months of progression.

One year ago You would've said the same about gryphon's gheart. Every piece of content with time will get more accesible. Still that doesnt change the fact that there is a little irony in fact people see extensive usage of barrier as unworthy but at the same time extensive usage of collosus is considered 200 IQ move. I think the reason for that lies in the fact some people cannot tell the difference between achievement run and score run.

People often make the mistake of thinking that difficulty in ESO is measured by mechanics or title completions while in fact it is measured by time and nothing else.

In almost every discord i've ever joined recently was an endless barrier discussion and apparently you have to sound loud against it to be considered a decent raider. While in fact barrier doesn't give you anything but titles and achievements, which are already proven to be a joke so many times. People defend selling GH, IR, TTT runs then stand against people who got these titles by using barrier. I don't know but it doesn't sound cheaper than buying those titles by selling crowns to me.

That's a bit of endgame hypocracy that creates illusion on the lower end of community.

Araneae6537 · November 2019

Stratti wrote: »

So, on the NA server and this guy is spamming the zone chat in Wayrest peddling carries for 3mill a pop.

I messaged him and reported him both for spamming and for selling carries. He and I spoke and he said it was sanctioned by ZOS and not bannable. I

Is this the case?

So you are pay to win? $ to Crowns to Gold to Carry

This puts you worse than many other MMO and frankly I would like to know if this is indeed sanctioned by ZOS - I won't name the person as per forum rules. This is an important issue, given that a segment of the game will be likely to convert $$ to Gold for this.

Are you mad about the price or mad that your title or whatever-else-I-couldn’t-care-less-about might become less exclusive? Please. Drop the self-righteous bs and get over yourself.

I would be surprised if it’s against TOS in any game — why should it be? It’s really no different than selling a motif or other loot you may get. Several people are voluntarily putting in the time and effort while others are voluntarily paying them — a win-win. If that’s not how you want to do it that’s totally fine too but it is angering when people try to impose their choices on others when it has nothing to do with them.

Heelie · November 2019

Juhasow wrote: »

OneWhomWaits wrote: »

A barrier spam is wrapping players into giant balls of bubble wrap. The clear requires very little skill, effort, or execution of mechanics. Some of those clears have over 70 barriers cast.

A necro ult is a damage ult and does not relieve the players of the need to actually perform the mechanics and play intelligently. It will not protect you from damage or any normal trial mechanic.

Try then to bring team packed with stam necro DDs into raid but instead of collosus tell them to use dawnbreaker. If collosus ulti is not changing that much and is not protecting You from anything then there shouldnt be big difference right ? Oh and btw can You tell me the name of any group that completed godslayer without spamming that ulti ?

Name a single mechanic that wont kill you exclusively from the collosus? No one in end game liked the old collosus but saying it's cheesing at the same lvl as a 14:55 GH using 60 barriers come on! Sure it was OP but at least it was a dps skill.

Stratti · November 2019

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Stratti wrote: »

So, on the NA server and this guy is spamming the zone chat in Wayrest peddling carries for 3mill a pop.

I messaged him and reported him both for spamming and for selling carries. He and I spoke and he said it was sanctioned by ZOS and not bannable. I

Is this the case?

So you are pay to win? $ to Crowns to Gold to Carry

This puts you worse than many other MMO and frankly I would like to know if this is indeed sanctioned by ZOS - I won't name the person as per forum rules. This is an important issue, given that a segment of the game will be likely to convert $$ to Gold for this.

Are you mad about the price or mad that your title or whatever-else-I-couldn’t-care-less-about might become less exclusive? Please. Drop the self-righteous bs and get over yourself.

I would be surprised if it’s against TOS in any game — why should it be? It’s really no different than selling a motif or other loot you may get. Several people are voluntarily putting in the time and effort while others are voluntarily paying them — a win-win. If that’s not how you want to do it that’s totally fine too but it is angering when people try to impose their choices on others when it has nothing to do with them.

It is always amusing to me to read these kinds of responses and realise that some people have no real ability to communicate in any other way but pure snarky teen angst.

As you can see in my post the question was to ZOS. My issue is I want to know if it is sanctioned and the $ to buy Crowns to swap for GOLD to buy Carries is something they are happy with.

This puts them worse than WoW (more because WoW can control the price of the gold exchange device)

Remember what Crowns are , nothing more than a way for them to convert IRL currency to In-game currency. To allow for that currency to be converted into gold creates pandoras box

Anyway - you keep being snarky sparky - I am sure it works wonders with the ladies.

OneWhomWaits · November 2019

Juhasow wrote: »

OneWhomWaits wrote: »

A barrier spam is wrapping players into giant balls of bubble wrap. The clear requires very little skill, effort, or execution of mechanics. Some of those clears have over 70 barriers cast.

A necro ult is a damage ult and does not relieve the players of the need to actually perform the mechanics and play intelligently. It will not protect you from damage or any normal trial mechanic.

Try then to bring team packed with stam necro DDs into raid but instead of collosus tell them to use dawnbreaker. If collosus ulti is not changing that much and is not protecting You from anything then there shouldnt be big difference right ? Oh and btw can You tell me the name of any group that completed godslayer without spamming that ulti ?

I think you may have missed what I was getting at. OP asks/whines that carries for gold are sanctioned by ZOS.
Code posts that he feels like carries cheapen accomplishments.
I post that the accomplishments are already cheapened by how easily they can be spammed through anyways. What does it really matter if we carry people through them?

Necro ult vs. barrier spam vs. anything else is an entirely different conversation that has nothing to do with what we were discussing.

Stratti · November 2019

OneWhomWaits wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

OneWhomWaits wrote: »

A barrier spam is wrapping players into giant balls of bubble wrap. The clear requires very little skill, effort, or execution of mechanics. Some of those clears have over 70 barriers cast.

A necro ult is a damage ult and does not relieve the players of the need to actually perform the mechanics and play intelligently. It will not protect you from damage or any normal trial mechanic.

Try then to bring team packed with stam necro DDs into raid but instead of collosus tell them to use dawnbreaker. If collosus ulti is not changing that much and is not protecting You from anything then there shouldnt be big difference right ? Oh and btw can You tell me the name of any group that completed godslayer without spamming that ulti ?

I think you may have missed what I was getting at. OP asks/whines that carries for gold are sanctioned by ZOS.
Code posts that he feels like carries cheapen accomplishments.
I post that the accomplishments are already cheapened by how easily they can be spammed through anyways. What does it really matter if we carry people through them?

Necro ult vs. barrier spam vs. anything else is an entirely different conversation that has nothing to do with what we were discussing.

whines?
I see what you did there. It seems to be common. I asked a question, a serious question that relates to ethics within the game and the integrity of the system, you make a smart alec remark.

What I hear from you two is a self-absorbed conversation that amounts to a circle jerk between two end-gamers who want more attention toward their elite playstyle.

Take it elsewhere.

Heelie · November 2019

themaddaedra wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Heelie wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

OneWhomWaits wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

...and even more so the people in the endgame community who cheapen the notion of accomplishment by selling them.

Hey Code. I've been in both guilds and Cores which would not participate in the carry business. I can see your point.

Do you feel that barrier spam has not cheapened the accomplishments in the same way? Do the titles still hold any value at a time when nearly no skill at all is required to obtain them? On any given night you can within less than an hour, and some prodigious barrier spam, accomplish nearly any title you desire.

Is by that logic every godslayer with stacked up necro ults also "cheapened" ? Does it still hold any value ?

Godslayer and the trifecta, at least for the time being, are two very different things. One is getting one shot by pugs. The other takes months of progression.

One year ago You would've said the same about gryphon's gheart. Every piece of content with time will get more accesible. Still that doesnt change the fact that there is a little irony in fact people see extensive usage of barrier as unworthy but at the same time extensive usage of collosus is considered 200 IQ move. I think the reason for that lies in the fact some people cannot tell the difference between achievement run and score run.

People often make the mistake of thinking that difficulty in ESO is measured by mechanics or title completions while in fact it is measured by time and nothing else.

In almost every discord i've ever joined recently was an endless barrier discussion and apparently you have to sound loud against it to be considered a decent raider. While in fact barrier doesn't give you anything but titles and achievements, which are already proven to be a joke so many times. People defend selling GH, IR, TTT runs then stand against people who got these titles by using barrier. I don't know but it doesn't sound cheaper than buying those titles by selling crowns to me.

That's a bit of endgame hypocracy that creates illusion on the lower end of community.

There was, for a time, a gentelmans agreement to go for scores not titles. Some groups broke this. Which ment that groups split into score groups and acheivement groups. With a huge stigma against the slowest and cheesiest score acheivement groups.

As for the carry runs... the titles are worthless to any decent raider so why not sell them?

Siohwenoeht · November 2019

Stratti wrote: »

OneWhomWaits wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

OneWhomWaits wrote: »

A barrier spam is wrapping players into giant balls of bubble wrap. The clear requires very little skill, effort, or execution of mechanics. Some of those clears have over 70 barriers cast.

A necro ult is a damage ult and does not relieve the players of the need to actually perform the mechanics and play intelligently. It will not protect you from damage or any normal trial mechanic.

Try then to bring team packed with stam necro DDs into raid but instead of collosus tell them to use dawnbreaker. If collosus ulti is not changing that much and is not protecting You from anything then there shouldnt be big difference right ? Oh and btw can You tell me the name of any group that completed godslayer without spamming that ulti ?

I think you may have missed what I was getting at. OP asks/whines that carries for gold are sanctioned by ZOS.
Code posts that he feels like carries cheapen accomplishments.
I post that the accomplishments are already cheapened by how easily they can be spammed through anyways. What does it really matter if we carry people through them?

Necro ult vs. barrier spam vs. anything else is an entirely different conversation that has nothing to do with what we were discussing.

whines?
I see what you did there. It seems to be common. I asked a question, a serious question that relates to ethics within the game and the integrity of the system, you make a smart alec remark.

What I hear from you two is a self-absorbed conversation that amounts to a circle jerk between two end-gamers who want more attention toward their elite playstyle.

Take it elsewhere.

And you received serious answers contrary to your position and have resorted to petty name calling. Teen angst indeed.

Heelie · November 2019

Stratti wrote: »

OneWhomWaits wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

OneWhomWaits wrote: »

A barrier spam is wrapping players into giant balls of bubble wrap. The clear requires very little skill, effort, or execution of mechanics. Some of those clears have over 70 barriers cast.

A necro ult is a damage ult and does not relieve the players of the need to actually perform the mechanics and play intelligently. It will not protect you from damage or any normal trial mechanic.

Try then to bring team packed with stam necro DDs into raid but instead of collosus tell them to use dawnbreaker. If collosus ulti is not changing that much and is not protecting You from anything then there shouldnt be big difference right ? Oh and btw can You tell me the name of any group that completed godslayer without spamming that ulti ?

I think you may have missed what I was getting at. OP asks/whines that carries for gold are sanctioned by ZOS.
Code posts that he feels like carries cheapen accomplishments.
I post that the accomplishments are already cheapened by how easily they can be spammed through anyways. What does it really matter if we carry people through them?

Necro ult vs. barrier spam vs. anything else is an entirely different conversation that has nothing to do with what we were discussing.

whines?
I see what you did there. It seems to be common. I asked a question, a serious question that relates to ethics within the game and the integrity of the system, you make a smart alec remark.

What I hear from you two is a self-absorbed conversation that amounts to a circle jerk between two end-gamers who want more attention toward their elite playstyle.

Take it elsewhere.

Your question was answered on page One why are you still here?

Stratti · November 2019

Heelie wrote: »

themaddaedra wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Heelie wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

OneWhomWaits wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

...and even more so the people in the endgame community who cheapen the notion of accomplishment by selling them.

Hey Code. I've been in both guilds and Cores which would not participate in the carry business. I can see your point.

Do you feel that barrier spam has not cheapened the accomplishments in the same way? Do the titles still hold any value at a time when nearly no skill at all is required to obtain them? On any given night you can within less than an hour, and some prodigious barrier spam, accomplish nearly any title you desire.

Is by that logic every godslayer with stacked up necro ults also "cheapened" ? Does it still hold any value ?

Godslayer and the trifecta, at least for the time being, are two very different things. One is getting one shot by pugs. The other takes months of progression.

One year ago You would've said the same about gryphon's gheart. Every piece of content with time will get more accesible. Still that doesnt change the fact that there is a little irony in fact people see extensive usage of barrier as unworthy but at the same time extensive usage of collosus is considered 200 IQ move. I think the reason for that lies in the fact some people cannot tell the difference between achievement run and score run.

People often make the mistake of thinking that difficulty in ESO is measured by mechanics or title completions while in fact it is measured by time and nothing else.

In almost every discord i've ever joined recently was an endless barrier discussion and apparently you have to sound loud against it to be considered a decent raider. While in fact barrier doesn't give you anything but titles and achievements, which are already proven to be a joke so many times. People defend selling GH, IR, TTT runs then stand against people who got these titles by using barrier. I don't know but it doesn't sound cheaper than buying those titles by selling crowns to me.

That's a bit of endgame hypocracy that creates illusion on the lower end of community.

There was, for a time, a gentelmans agreement to go for scores not titles. Some groups broke this. Which ment that groups split into score groups and acheivement groups. With a huge stigma against the slowest and cheesiest score acheivement groups.

As for the carry runs... the titles are worthless to any decent raider so why not sell them?

If you end up selling runs and allowing it, it will become like WoW was on Raid servers. People would buy runs with real world money and also with in-game currency purchased with real world money. It was so rampant that half way through the raiding tier (it resets) all the people that could not raid would scramble to pay for it so that they could get the gear needed and achievements needed to get into a raid next tier.

You create an economy where the commodity is successfully completing the game , this is not going to end well.

Stratti · November 2019

Heelie wrote: »

Stratti wrote: »

OneWhomWaits wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

OneWhomWaits wrote: »

A barrier spam is wrapping players into giant balls of bubble wrap. The clear requires very little skill, effort, or execution of mechanics. Some of those clears have over 70 barriers cast.

A necro ult is a damage ult and does not relieve the players of the need to actually perform the mechanics and play intelligently. It will not protect you from damage or any normal trial mechanic.

Try then to bring team packed with stam necro DDs into raid but instead of collosus tell them to use dawnbreaker. If collosus ulti is not changing that much and is not protecting You from anything then there shouldnt be big difference right ? Oh and btw can You tell me the name of any group that completed godslayer without spamming that ulti ?

I think you may have missed what I was getting at. OP asks/whines that carries for gold are sanctioned by ZOS.
Code posts that he feels like carries cheapen accomplishments.
I post that the accomplishments are already cheapened by how easily they can be spammed through anyways. What does it really matter if we carry people through them?

Necro ult vs. barrier spam vs. anything else is an entirely different conversation that has nothing to do with what we were discussing.

whines?
I see what you did there. It seems to be common. I asked a question, a serious question that relates to ethics within the game and the integrity of the system, you make a smart alec remark.

What I hear from you two is a self-absorbed conversation that amounts to a circle jerk between two end-gamers who want more attention toward their elite playstyle.

Take it elsewhere.

Your question was answered on page One why are you still here?

O. Snarky and stupid as well. Did you see a source mentioned. Maybe where you are from you believe things without official sources.

#2 - This is my thread. As the OP it pings me everytime someone replies.

Let me tell you what I think of you and your kind. I think you rip people off into these runs. I think you profit from this misguided view that people have that it is advantageous to them to run with your team. I think you couldn't care less how they obtained that gold as long as it is in your pocket. I think that is an extension of some of the things wrong with certain countries and how they treat this world.

Araneae6537 · November 2019

Stratti wrote: »

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Stratti wrote: »

So, on the NA server and this guy is spamming the zone chat in Wayrest peddling carries for 3mill a pop.

I messaged him and reported him both for spamming and for selling carries. He and I spoke and he said it was sanctioned by ZOS and not bannable. I

Is this the case?

So you are pay to win? $ to Crowns to Gold to Carry

This puts you worse than many other MMO and frankly I would like to know if this is indeed sanctioned by ZOS - I won't name the person as per forum rules. This is an important issue, given that a segment of the game will be likely to convert $$ to Gold for this.

Are you mad about the price or mad that your title or whatever-else-I-couldn’t-care-less-about might become less exclusive? Please. Drop the self-righteous bs and get over yourself.

I would be surprised if it’s against TOS in any game — why should it be? It’s really no different than selling a motif or other loot you may get. Several people are voluntarily putting in the time and effort while others are voluntarily paying them — a win-win. If that’s not how you want to do it that’s totally fine too but it is angering when people try to impose their choices on others when it has nothing to do with them.

It is always amusing to me to read these kinds of responses and realise that some people have no real ability to communicate in any other way but pure snarky teen angst.

As you can see in my post the question was to ZOS. My issue is I want to know if it is sanctioned and the $ to buy Crowns to swap for GOLD to buy Carries is something they are happy with.

This puts them worse than WoW (more because WoW can control the price of the gold exchange device)

Remember what Crowns are , nothing more than a way for them to convert IRL currency to In-game currency. To allow for that currency to be converted into gold creates pandoras box

Anyway - you keep being snarky sparky - I am sure it works wonders with the ladies.

I don’t see the problem: People may buy gold with Crowns but someone has to earn that gold in the game so it’s not going to cause runaway inflation. The only potential problem I could see is there not being a secure way to trade Crowns for gold, but that is a separate issue I think and people have found ways to do it more safely in guilds or Discord channels, etc., and there is the benefit of getting your gold/Crowns worth, whereas in GW2 the game would take a cut for the convenience (and security). I doubt that WOW “controls” the price but probably sets it based on how many players are looking to trade one for the other at any given time — at least that’s how GW2 does it. Again the problem is...?

And, not that it has ought to do with anything, but have you assumed my gender, my orientation or both? 🤔

OneWhomWaits · November 2019

themaddaedra wrote: »

People defend selling GH, IR, TTT runs then stand against people who got these titles by using barrier. I don't know but it doesn't sound cheaper than buying those titles by selling crowns to me.

That's a bit of endgame hypocracy that creates illusion on the lower end of community.

The carry customer is not a raider. They are not someone who tries to use titles to get onto raiding teams typically.

The barrier achievement hunter does typically raid in the trials world.

I don't really see a hypocrisy in providing achievements to players who will never be able to achieve them, but expecting players who want to raid with you to be able to complete the content without barrier spam.

The skills gap can be seen easily at times.

code65536 · November 2019

OneWhomWaits wrote: »

Do you feel that barrier spam has not cheapened the accomplishments in the same way? Do the titles still hold any value at a time when nearly no skill at all is required to obtain them? On any given night you can within less than an hour, and some prodigious barrier spam, accomplish nearly any title you desire.

Absolutely not.

That's quite a leap from "get a skin without doing anything" to "things are easier because of power creep which affords the luxury of defensive play". The point of a title or skin is to serve as a badge to say, "I've accomplished this." The accomplishment may be easier because there is more DPS power which then allows people to play more defensively. But it is still an accomplishment. Buying a carry entails zero accomplishment.

Things get easier over time as power progresses. That's a normal--and desirable--feature of MMOs. Dro-m'Athra Destroyer doesn't mean nearly as much today as it did in 2016, which is fine because that was a title from, well, 2016. But I don't see how that's relevant when the topic isn't about content becoming more accessible and requiring less work (but still requiring a substantial amount of work, lest you forget what the vast majority of the player base is like), but rather about people getting things without even experiencing the content and just forking over gold.

There is a fundamental difference between the two, and I find it disappointing that you failed to recognize that.

themaddaedra · November 2019

Heelie wrote: »

themaddaedra wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Heelie wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

OneWhomWaits wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

...and even more so the people in the endgame community who cheapen the notion of accomplishment by selling them.

Hey Code. I've been in both guilds and Cores which would not participate in the carry business. I can see your point.

Do you feel that barrier spam has not cheapened the accomplishments in the same way? Do the titles still hold any value at a time when nearly no skill at all is required to obtain them? On any given night you can within less than an hour, and some prodigious barrier spam, accomplish nearly any title you desire.

Is by that logic every godslayer with stacked up necro ults also "cheapened" ? Does it still hold any value ?

Godslayer and the trifecta, at least for the time being, are two very different things. One is getting one shot by pugs. The other takes months of progression.

One year ago You would've said the same about gryphon's gheart. Every piece of content with time will get more accesible. Still that doesnt change the fact that there is a little irony in fact people see extensive usage of barrier as unworthy but at the same time extensive usage of collosus is considered 200 IQ move. I think the reason for that lies in the fact some people cannot tell the difference between achievement run and score run.

People often make the mistake of thinking that difficulty in ESO is measured by mechanics or title completions while in fact it is measured by time and nothing else.

In almost every discord i've ever joined recently was an endless barrier discussion and apparently you have to sound loud against it to be considered a decent raider. While in fact barrier doesn't give you anything but titles and achievements, which are already proven to be a joke so many times. People defend selling GH, IR, TTT runs then stand against people who got these titles by using barrier. I don't know but it doesn't sound cheaper than buying those titles by selling crowns to me.

That's a bit of endgame hypocracy that creates illusion on the lower end of community.

There was, for a time, a gentelmans agreement to go for scores not titles. Some groups broke this. Which ment that groups split into score groups and acheivement groups. With a huge stigma against the slowest and cheesiest score acheivement groups.

As for the carry runs... the titles are worthless to any decent raider so why not sell them?

I didn't say anything about not selling them. I simply pointed a fact that defending carry runs while critisizing barrier use is hypocracy.

OneWhomWaits · November 2019

Stratti wrote: »

Let me tell you what I think of you and your kind. I think you rip people off into these runs. I think you profit from this misguided view that people have that it is advantageous to them to run with your team. I think you couldn't care less how they obtained that gold as long as it is in your pocket. I think that is an extension of some of the things wrong with certain countries and how they treat this world.

Are you implying Heelie is from the USA?

It is advantageous to run with his team. They want a completion, and he can offer that.

code65536 · November 2019

Juhasow wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Also, if you want to make an argument about P2W, you're attacking the wrong link in the chain. You should be calling into question the sale of crowns for gold via the gifting system, since that is what you really have a problem with (actually, this feature is much more toxic for the trade guild bid system than it is for endgame PvE, and @Ixtyr who before he quit the game was a moderator of the ESO reddit and ran one of the prime trade guilds on PC/NA was a very vocal opponent of this for that reason).

So if I understand You correctly @code65536 You're saying that now people are often winning bids on guild traders with gold obtained through gifting ?

Yes. It's one of the (multiple) factors contributing to the inflation of bid prices.

Neoealth · November 2019

Since OP has had his argument metaphorically blown out of the water and given me a few minutes of fun watching I thought I'd just chime in and put forward another angle which I don't think has been touched upon.

Let us not forget OP that this game is a MMORPG with the RPG being the important part, role playing game. Some people might want to role play being able to hire a mercenary. So to recap, it's been clearly shown it's not p2w, it's not against the rules and no one gets hurt, and it fits into the style of the game from a role playing point of view as well.

Artorias24 · November 2019

What If i earned all my gold with ingame Farming and selling ingame items. And with this gold i buy a carry run, is this still pay to win?

themaddaedra · November 2019

OneWhomWaits wrote: »

themaddaedra wrote: »

People defend selling GH, IR, TTT runs then stand against people who got these titles by using barrier. I don't know but it doesn't sound cheaper than buying those titles by selling crowns to me.

That's a bit of endgame hypocracy that creates illusion on the lower end of community.

The carry customer is not a raider. They are not someone who tries to use titles to get onto raiding teams typically.

The barrier achievement hunter does typically raid in the trials world.

I don't really see a hypocrisy in providing achievements to players who will never be able to achieve them, but expecting players who want to raid with you to be able to complete the content without barrier spam.

The skills gap can be seen easily at times.

If you are choosing your teammates by looking at what titles they have, you are doing it wrong. And if you don't see how it's hypocrasy to be ok with people who buy titles then to humiliate who get those titles by actually playing (even if the play is lower than what you consider decent) then this is where i stop discussing about it. Can't solve a puzzle with irrelevant pieces.

OneWhomWaits · November 2019

code65536 wrote: »

OneWhomWaits wrote: »

Do you feel that barrier spam has not cheapened the accomplishments in the same way? Do the titles still hold any value at a time when nearly no skill at all is required to obtain them? On any given night you can within less than an hour, and some prodigious barrier spam, accomplish nearly any title you desire.

Absolutely not.

That's quite a leap from "get a skin without doing anything" to "things are easier because of power creep which affords the luxury of defensive play". The point of a title or skin is to serve as a badge to say, "I've accomplished this." The accomplishment may be easier because there is more DPS power which then allows people to play more defensively. But it is still an accomplishment. Buying a carry entails zero accomplishment.

Things get easier over time as power progresses. That's a normal--and desirable--feature of MMOs. Dro-m'Athra Destroyer doesn't mean nearly as much today as it did in 2016, which is fine because that was a title from, well, 2016. But I don't see how that's relevant when the topic isn't about content becoming more accessible and requiring less work (but still requiring a substantial amount of work, lest you forget what the vast majority of the player base is like), but rather about people getting things without even experiencing the content and just forking over gold.

There is a fundamental difference between the two, and I find it disappointing that you failed to recognize that.

I simply do not view barriers on every single dps and all supports as merely "defensive play". Nor do I view the title earned with it as much of an accomplishment when earned in such a way. There is to me a difference between a few defensive barriers and an actual full on barrier run.

Stratti · November 2019

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

Stratti wrote: »

OneWhomWaits wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

OneWhomWaits wrote: »

A barrier spam is wrapping players into giant balls of bubble wrap. The clear requires very little skill, effort, or execution of mechanics. Some of those clears have over 70 barriers cast.

A necro ult is a damage ult and does not relieve the players of the need to actually perform the mechanics and play intelligently. It will not protect you from damage or any normal trial mechanic.

Try then to bring team packed with stam necro DDs into raid but instead of collosus tell them to use dawnbreaker. If collosus ulti is not changing that much and is not protecting You from anything then there shouldnt be big difference right ? Oh and btw can You tell me the name of any group that completed godslayer without spamming that ulti ?

I think you may have missed what I was getting at. OP asks/whines that carries for gold are sanctioned by ZOS.
Code posts that he feels like carries cheapen accomplishments.
I post that the accomplishments are already cheapened by how easily they can be spammed through anyways. What does it really matter if we carry people through them?

Necro ult vs. barrier spam vs. anything else is an entirely different conversation that has nothing to do with what we were discussing.

whines?
I see what you did there. It seems to be common. I asked a question, a serious question that relates to ethics within the game and the integrity of the system, you make a smart alec remark.

What I hear from you two is a self-absorbed conversation that amounts to a circle jerk between two end-gamers who want more attention toward their elite playstyle.

Take it elsewhere.

And you received serious answers contrary to your position and have resorted to petty name calling. Teen angst indeed.

Their answers were not to the contrary

OneWhomWaits wrote: »

Stratti wrote: »

Let me tell you what I think of you and your kind. I think you rip people off into these runs. I think you profit from this misguided view that people have that it is advantageous to them to run with your team. I think you couldn't care less how they obtained that gold as long as it is in your pocket. I think that is an extension of some of the things wrong with certain countries and how they treat this world.

Are you implying Heelie is from the USA?

It is advantageous to run with his team. They want a completion, and he can offer that.

Frankly there are some players who would run with the worst people simply to get a completion. There are others who will pay those players to 'achieve' a completion.

I find the concept of people selling completions for gold, gold that can be converted from IRL currency to crowns to gold deplorable. In fact when I think of younger teens stealing mom's credit card to buy crowns so they get the skin they want via a carry run then I really feel sad for the people involved. My thread was based on seeing someone openly advertising this in chat.

Now imagine a 12yo see's this carry run ad and decides to act upon it. The game will facilitate taking his money (mom's) to satisfy an urge advertised in zone chat. Disgraceful.

ZoS has many problems right now. From the recent nerfs, to activity finder dramas to competition bleeding users. The game needs to be careful.

Now for those that are arguing here against us well... the fact is most of you have a vested interest in either being the providers of the service or the users.

Araneae6537 · November 2019

Stratti wrote: »

Heelie wrote: »

Stratti wrote: »

OneWhomWaits wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

OneWhomWaits wrote: »

A barrier spam is wrapping players into giant balls of bubble wrap. The clear requires very little skill, effort, or execution of mechanics. Some of those clears have over 70 barriers cast.

A necro ult is a damage ult and does not relieve the players of the need to actually perform the mechanics and play intelligently. It will not protect you from damage or any normal trial mechanic.

Try then to bring team packed with stam necro DDs into raid but instead of collosus tell them to use dawnbreaker. If collosus ulti is not changing that much and is not protecting You from anything then there shouldnt be big difference right ? Oh and btw can You tell me the name of any group that completed godslayer without spamming that ulti ?

I think you may have missed what I was getting at. OP asks/whines that carries for gold are sanctioned by ZOS.
Code posts that he feels like carries cheapen accomplishments.
I post that the accomplishments are already cheapened by how easily they can be spammed through anyways. What does it really matter if we carry people through them?

Necro ult vs. barrier spam vs. anything else is an entirely different conversation that has nothing to do with what we were discussing.

whines?
I see what you did there. It seems to be common. I asked a question, a serious question that relates to ethics within the game and the integrity of the system, you make a smart alec remark.

What I hear from you two is a self-absorbed conversation that amounts to a circle jerk between two end-gamers who want more attention toward their elite playstyle.

Take it elsewhere.

Your question was answered on page One why are you still here?

O. Snarky and stupid as well. Did you see a source mentioned. Maybe where you are from you believe things without official sources.

#2 - This is my thread. As the OP it pings me everytime someone replies.

Let me tell you what I think of you and your kind. I think you rip people off into these runs. I think you profit from this misguided view that people have that it is advantageous to them to run with your team. I think you couldn't care less how they obtained that gold as long as it is in your pocket. I think that is an extension of some of the things wrong with certain countries and how they treat this world.

Oh, so now you insult those who wish to pay for this service? I assume they are quite capable of determining the value of their time and how they want to spend it, as well as what gear or other items they want for content they perhaps enjoy more. Who are you to tell them what the best use of their time and money is?