Selling Carries - Group claims Gina was in their Discord and that it is sanctioned

Dusk_Coven

Nyladreas wrote: »

Some people don't have the time or ability to do hard content, this allows them to get their achievements.

Think about what you just said.

A carry basically makes the achievement fraudulent or at the least meaningless, and it makes suspect the achievements of other people who actually earned it. But I guess some people just want to tick off all the achievements whether they actually achieved it or not.

But since people don't go around inspecting other people's achievements, in the long run it doesn't matter.
No one really cares about where you got what title or clothing people are wearing anyway.

Stratti wrote: »

I find the concept of people selling completions for gold, gold that can be converted from IRL currency to crowns to gold deplorable.

That's TWO issues -- selling completions, and source of gold. They are not necessarily linked. They could be linked, sure, but then you could accuse any gold held by players to be linked to IRL currency or RMT transactions.

Stratti wrote: »

Now imagine a 12yo see's this carry run ad and decides to act upon it. The game will facilitate taking his money (mom's) to satisfy an urge advertised in zone chat. Disgraceful.

But isn't this the same as any person wanting anything? That 12 year old could see a cool mount someone else has, discover it's a Crown Store item, and somehow rustle up the money to get one via buying Crowns. If that's wrong, then you're expanding the issue way too much here and can accuse a lot of anything as being "disgraceful". The main difference with buying/selling carries is that it's not controlled by ZOS, it's done by players. Is that what feels wrong?

Stratti

Neoealth wrote: »

Since OP has had his argument metaphorically blown out of the water and given me a few minutes of fun watching I thought I'd just chime in and put forward another angle which I don't think has been touched upon.

Let us not forget OP that this game is a MMORPG with the RPG being the important part, role playing game. Some people might want to role play being able to hire a mercenary. So to recap, it's been clearly shown it's not p2w, it's not against the rules and no one gets hurt, and it fits into the style of the game from a role playing point of view as well.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Not very smart let me tell you slow

Muppet A : Buys crowns with USD
Muppet A : Exchanges Crowns for Gold
Muppet A : Buys Runs through Vet DSA , Vet SS , Vet CR and completely gears
Muppet A : Used USD to Buy Runs which gave him a huge WIN

See that.

How is that not Pay to Win. Maybe use your brains a little sparky

Heelie

Stratti wrote: »

Heelie wrote: »

Stratti wrote: »

OneWhomWaits wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

OneWhomWaits wrote: »

A barrier spam is wrapping players into giant balls of bubble wrap. The clear requires very little skill, effort, or execution of mechanics. Some of those clears have over 70 barriers cast.

A necro ult is a damage ult and does not relieve the players of the need to actually perform the mechanics and play intelligently. It will not protect you from damage or any normal trial mechanic.

Try then to bring team packed with stam necro DDs into raid but instead of collosus tell them to use dawnbreaker. If collosus ulti is not changing that much and is not protecting You from anything then there shouldnt be big difference right ? Oh and btw can You tell me the name of any group that completed godslayer without spamming that ulti ?

I think you may have missed what I was getting at. OP asks/whines that carries for gold are sanctioned by ZOS.
Code posts that he feels like carries cheapen accomplishments.
I post that the accomplishments are already cheapened by how easily they can be spammed through anyways. What does it really matter if we carry people through them?

Necro ult vs. barrier spam vs. anything else is an entirely different conversation that has nothing to do with what we were discussing.

whines?
I see what you did there. It seems to be common. I asked a question, a serious question that relates to ethics within the game and the integrity of the system, you make a smart alec remark.

What I hear from you two is a self-absorbed conversation that amounts to a circle jerk between two end-gamers who want more attention toward their elite playstyle.

Take it elsewhere.

Your question was answered on page One why are you still here?

O. Snarky and stupid as well. Did you see a source mentioned. Maybe where you are from you believe things without official sources.

#2 - This is my thread. As the OP it pings me everytime someone replies.

Let me tell you what I think of you and your kind. I think you rip people off into these runs. I think you profit from this misguided view that people have that it is advantageous to them to run with your team. I think you couldn't care less how they obtained that gold as long as it is in your pocket. I think that is an extension of some of the things wrong with certain countries and how they treat this world.

I am not American if that's what you think 😂

I never scammed anyone from their gold
Any gold I ever made was from willing buyers.

As for the morality I could'nt care much less. At least 50% of all gold i ever made i gave away to my friends and some times strangers. The rest i spent in the crown store or in guild stores.

Any comment by Gina is ZOS's official position. Just letting you know.

If any gold was illegaly obtained it's a case between the buyer and ZOS. Not my problem. But I highly doubt it ever was, we do vet people.

Sanguinor2

Stratti wrote: »

O. Snarky and stupid as well. Did you see a source mentioned. Maybe where you are from you believe things without official sources.

#2 - This is my thread. As the OP it pings me everytime someone replies.

Let me tell you what I think of you and your kind. I think you rip people off into these runs. I think you profit from this misguided view that people have that it is advantageous to them to run with your team. I think you couldn't care less how they obtained that gold as long as it is in your pocket. I think that is an extension of some of the things wrong with certain countries and how they treat this world.

Actually I did see a source mentioned, perhaps you didnt see it? Post number 5 from idk quotes Gina (Zos employee btw) saying that trading any ingame item for any ingame item is legit and also mentions Crown store items being ingame items. So someone selling Crown store items for Gold trades one ingame item for another. If he uses said Gold to buy a carry run he trades said Gold (aka ingame item) for gear, Skin or title (ingame items). There you go.

Your opinion on trading Gold for crowns may still be a negative one but that doesnt Change that it is allowed to trade Gold for crowns or in reverse crowns for Gold and then do whatever you wish with said Gold unless it is against ToS.

Also for someone bemoaning the intellecutal level of others you sure dont seem very Adept at reading your own thread since your official source was in, I repeat, COMMENTnumber 5 and you are on PAGE number 5 asking for an official source *shrug*.

OneWhomWaits

themaddaedra wrote: »

OneWhomWaits wrote: »

themaddaedra wrote: »

People defend selling GH, IR, TTT runs then stand against people who got these titles by using barrier. I don't know but it doesn't sound cheaper than buying those titles by selling crowns to me.

That's a bit of endgame hypocracy that creates illusion on the lower end of community.

The carry customer is not a raider. They are not someone who tries to use titles to get onto raiding teams typically.

The barrier achievement hunter does typically raid in the trials world.

I don't really see a hypocrisy in providing achievements to players who will never be able to achieve them, but expecting players who want to raid with you to be able to complete the content without barrier spam.

The skills gap can be seen easily at times.

If you are choosing your teammates by looking at what titles they have, you are doing it wrong. And if you don't see how it's hypocrasy to be ok with people who buy titles then to humiliate who get those titles by actually playing (even if the play is lower than what you consider decent) then this is where i stop discussing about it. Can't solve a puzzle with irrelevant pieces.

Nowhere was it said that team mates are chosen by what titles they have. What was actually said is that I feel it is fair to expect players who want to raid with you to be able to actually complete content without barriers.

Jem_Kindheart

Yeah score runs are where the realllll action happens. You can't buy those, you HAVE to perform, especially as a healer. As a healer I have to perform, it is not optional.

There's an amazing feeling when you make it on the Leaderboards, I've made it maybe 10 or 12 times, with scores that were quickly knocked off lolol but still. Those times were a huge feeling inside, bigger than any skin achiev. Like this week I got #324 in vSO which is a messy place to heal. That score is a JOKE compared to the ones at the top. An absolute joke in relation to the teams really pushing scores. But still things like that mean a lot inside

Stratti

Artorias24 wrote: »

What If i earned all my gold with ingame Farming and selling ingame items. And with this gold i buy a carry run, is this still pay to win?

What do you think. Did you Pay, meaning did you use REAL WORLD CURRENCY

Stratti

Heelie wrote: »

Stratti wrote: »

Heelie wrote: »

Stratti wrote: »

OneWhomWaits wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

OneWhomWaits wrote: »

A barrier spam is wrapping players into giant balls of bubble wrap. The clear requires very little skill, effort, or execution of mechanics. Some of those clears have over 70 barriers cast.

A necro ult is a damage ult and does not relieve the players of the need to actually perform the mechanics and play intelligently. It will not protect you from damage or any normal trial mechanic.

Try then to bring team packed with stam necro DDs into raid but instead of collosus tell them to use dawnbreaker. If collosus ulti is not changing that much and is not protecting You from anything then there shouldnt be big difference right ? Oh and btw can You tell me the name of any group that completed godslayer without spamming that ulti ?

I think you may have missed what I was getting at. OP asks/whines that carries for gold are sanctioned by ZOS.
Code posts that he feels like carries cheapen accomplishments.
I post that the accomplishments are already cheapened by how easily they can be spammed through anyways. What does it really matter if we carry people through them?

Necro ult vs. barrier spam vs. anything else is an entirely different conversation that has nothing to do with what we were discussing.

whines?
I see what you did there. It seems to be common. I asked a question, a serious question that relates to ethics within the game and the integrity of the system, you make a smart alec remark.

What I hear from you two is a self-absorbed conversation that amounts to a circle jerk between two end-gamers who want more attention toward their elite playstyle.

Take it elsewhere.

Your question was answered on page One why are you still here?

O. Snarky and stupid as well. Did you see a source mentioned. Maybe where you are from you believe things without official sources.

#2 - This is my thread. As the OP it pings me everytime someone replies.

Let me tell you what I think of you and your kind. I think you rip people off into these runs. I think you profit from this misguided view that people have that it is advantageous to them to run with your team. I think you couldn't care less how they obtained that gold as long as it is in your pocket. I think that is an extension of some of the things wrong with certain countries and how they treat this world.

I am not American if that's what you think 😂

I never scammed anyone from their gold
Any gold I ever made was from willing buyers.

As for the morality I could'nt care much less. At least 50% of all gold i ever made i gave away to my friends and some times strangers. The rest i spent in the crown store or in guild stores.

Any comment by Gina is ZOS's official position. Just letting you know.

If any gold was illegaly obtained it's a case between the buyer and ZOS. Not my problem. But I highly doubt it ever was, we do vet people.

Yes. I don't expect for you to have the morality to see the ethical problems you may have with that. Ultimately it is your right if you are allowed to.

In my world we deal with evidence. Saying Gina said it is ok is not the same as showing an official statement.

By all means profit off the ability to carry people through the game. If you read the earlier post my issue was with it advertised and spammed throughout Wayrest. What has been represented is that is against the rules.

Given that Gina is unlikely to respond to a players concern if you can direct me to this statement of hers that would be fine

code65536

OneWhomWaits wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

OneWhomWaits wrote: »

Do you feel that barrier spam has not cheapened the accomplishments in the same way? Do the titles still hold any value at a time when nearly no skill at all is required to obtain them? On any given night you can within less than an hour, and some prodigious barrier spam, accomplish nearly any title you desire.

Absolutely not.

That's quite a leap from "get a skin without doing anything" to "things are easier because of power creep which affords the luxury of defensive play". The point of a title or skin is to serve as a badge to say, "I've accomplished this." The accomplishment may be easier because there is more DPS power which then allows people to play more defensively. But it is still an accomplishment. Buying a carry entails zero accomplishment.

Things get easier over time as power progresses. That's a normal--and desirable--feature of MMOs. Dro-m'Athra Destroyer doesn't mean nearly as much today as it did in 2016, which is fine because that was a title from, well, 2016. But I don't see how that's relevant when the topic isn't about content becoming more accessible and requiring less work (but still requiring a substantial amount of work, lest you forget what the vast majority of the player base is like), but rather about people getting things without even experiencing the content and just forking over gold.

There is a fundamental difference between the two, and I find it disappointing that you failed to recognize that.

I simply do not view barriers on every single dps and all supports as merely "defensive play". Nor do I view the title earned with it as much of an accomplishment when earned in such a way. There is to me a difference between a few defensive barriers and an actual full on barrier run.

Wait, barriers on every DD? That's a thing? LOL. Okay, I'll admit that sounds a bit ridiculous, but I'd still call it an accomplishment. Yes, they get much more room for error with mechanics, but they need to be able to do enough damage to compensate the loss of damage ults, which is something that the vast majority of the player base would be incapable of.

In any case, I still don't see the relevance of bringing barrier spam into this discussion. It's still not the same or even comparable to a paid carry.

code65536

themaddaedra wrote: »

And if you don't see how it's hypocrasy to be ok with people who buy titles then to humiliate who get those titles by actually playing (even if the play is lower than what you consider decent) then this is where i stop discussing about it. Can't solve a puzzle with irrelevant pieces.

+1

OneWhomWaits

code65536 wrote: »

OneWhomWaits wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

OneWhomWaits wrote: »

Do you feel that barrier spam has not cheapened the accomplishments in the same way? Do the titles still hold any value at a time when nearly no skill at all is required to obtain them? On any given night you can within less than an hour, and some prodigious barrier spam, accomplish nearly any title you desire.

Absolutely not.

That's quite a leap from "get a skin without doing anything" to "things are easier because of power creep which affords the luxury of defensive play". The point of a title or skin is to serve as a badge to say, "I've accomplished this." The accomplishment may be easier because there is more DPS power which then allows people to play more defensively. But it is still an accomplishment. Buying a carry entails zero accomplishment.

Things get easier over time as power progresses. That's a normal--and desirable--feature of MMOs. Dro-m'Athra Destroyer doesn't mean nearly as much today as it did in 2016, which is fine because that was a title from, well, 2016. But I don't see how that's relevant when the topic isn't about content becoming more accessible and requiring less work (but still requiring a substantial amount of work, lest you forget what the vast majority of the player base is like), but rather about people getting things without even experiencing the content and just forking over gold.

There is a fundamental difference between the two, and I find it disappointing that you failed to recognize that.

I simply do not view barriers on every single dps and all supports as merely "defensive play". Nor do I view the title earned with it as much of an accomplishment when earned in such a way. There is to me a difference between a few defensive barriers and an actual full on barrier run.

Wait, barriers on every DD? That's a thing? LOL. Okay, I'll admit that sounds a bit ridiculous, but I'd still call it an accomplishment. Yes, they get much more room for error with mechanics, but they need to be able to do enough damage to compensate the loss of damage ults, which is something that the vast majority of the player base would be incapable of.

In any case, I still don't see the relevance of bringing barrier spam into this discussion. It's still not the same or even comparable to a paid carry.

That is a thing right now LOL That is how much power creep we have. You can take away all major force and every single DPS ulti and still pull off the titles.

Heelie

Stratti wrote: »

Heelie wrote: »

Stratti wrote: »

Heelie wrote: »

Stratti wrote: »

OneWhomWaits wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

OneWhomWaits wrote: »

A barrier spam is wrapping players into giant balls of bubble wrap. The clear requires very little skill, effort, or execution of mechanics. Some of those clears have over 70 barriers cast.

A necro ult is a damage ult and does not relieve the players of the need to actually perform the mechanics and play intelligently. It will not protect you from damage or any normal trial mechanic.

Try then to bring team packed with stam necro DDs into raid but instead of collosus tell them to use dawnbreaker. If collosus ulti is not changing that much and is not protecting You from anything then there shouldnt be big difference right ? Oh and btw can You tell me the name of any group that completed godslayer without spamming that ulti ?

I think you may have missed what I was getting at. OP asks/whines that carries for gold are sanctioned by ZOS.
Code posts that he feels like carries cheapen accomplishments.
I post that the accomplishments are already cheapened by how easily they can be spammed through anyways. What does it really matter if we carry people through them?

Necro ult vs. barrier spam vs. anything else is an entirely different conversation that has nothing to do with what we were discussing.

whines?
I see what you did there. It seems to be common. I asked a question, a serious question that relates to ethics within the game and the integrity of the system, you make a smart alec remark.

What I hear from you two is a self-absorbed conversation that amounts to a circle jerk between two end-gamers who want more attention toward their elite playstyle.

Take it elsewhere.

Your question was answered on page One why are you still here?

O. Snarky and stupid as well. Did you see a source mentioned. Maybe where you are from you believe things without official sources.

#2 - This is my thread. As the OP it pings me everytime someone replies.

Let me tell you what I think of you and your kind. I think you rip people off into these runs. I think you profit from this misguided view that people have that it is advantageous to them to run with your team. I think you couldn't care less how they obtained that gold as long as it is in your pocket. I think that is an extension of some of the things wrong with certain countries and how they treat this world.

I am not American if that's what you think 😂

I never scammed anyone from their gold
Any gold I ever made was from willing buyers.

As for the morality I could'nt care much less. At least 50% of all gold i ever made i gave away to my friends and some times strangers. The rest i spent in the crown store or in guild stores.

Any comment by Gina is ZOS's official position. Just letting you know.

If any gold was illegaly obtained it's a case between the buyer and ZOS. Not my problem. But I highly doubt it ever was, we do vet people.

Yes. I don't expect for you to have the morality to see the ethical problems you may have with that. Ultimately it is your right if you are allowed to.

In my world we deal with evidence. Saying Gina said it is ok is not the same as showing an official statement.

By all means profit off the ability to carry people through the game. If you read the earlier post my issue was with it advertised and spammed throughout Wayrest. What has been represented is that is against the rules.

Given that Gina is unlikely to respond to a players concern if you can direct me to this statement of hers that would be fine

I will repeat myself if Gina said so on either her official discord or forum account. It's ZOS's official position.

Siohwenoeht

Stratti wrote: »

Neoealth wrote: »

Since OP has had his argument metaphorically blown out of the water and given me a few minutes of fun watching I thought I'd just chime in and put forward another angle which I don't think has been touched upon.

Let us not forget OP that this game is a MMORPG with the RPG being the important part, role playing game. Some people might want to role play being able to hire a mercenary. So to recap, it's been clearly shown it's not p2w, it's not against the rules and no one gets hurt, and it fits into the style of the game from a role playing point of view as well.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Not very smart let me tell you slow

Muppet A : Buys crowns with USD
Muppet A : Exchanges Crowns for Gold
Muppet A : Buys Runs through Vet DSA , Vet SS , Vet CR and completely gears
Muppet A : Used USD to Buy Runs which gave him a huge WIN

See that.

How is that not Pay to Win. Maybe use your brains a little sparky

I've figured it out... Trump started playing ESO and hijacked a forum account... It all makes sense now. Lmelao!!!!!!!!!

At least we can rest assured that the majority of these posts will be gone by the time the mods come to work in a few hours. But thanks for the entertainment. 😉

Stratti

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Stratti wrote: »

O. Snarky and stupid as well. Did you see a source mentioned. Maybe where you are from you believe things without official sources.

#2 - This is my thread. As the OP it pings me everytime someone replies.

Let me tell you what I think of you and your kind. I think you rip people off into these runs. I think you profit from this misguided view that people have that it is advantageous to them to run with your team. I think you couldn't care less how they obtained that gold as long as it is in your pocket. I think that is an extension of some of the things wrong with certain countries and how they treat this world.

Actually I did see a source mentioned, perhaps you didnt see it? Post number 5 from idk quotes Gina (Zos employee btw) saying that trading any ingame item for any ingame item is legit and also mentions Crown store items being ingame items. So someone selling Crown store items for Gold trades one ingame item for another. If he uses said Gold to buy a carry run he trades said Gold (aka ingame item) for gear, Skin or title (ingame items). There you go.

Your opinion on trading Gold for crowns may still be a negative one but that doesnt Change that it is allowed to trade Gold for crowns or in reverse crowns for Gold and then do whatever you wish with said Gold unless it is against ToS.

Also for someone bemoaning the intellecutal level of others you sure dont seem very Adept at reading your own thread since your official source was in, I repeat, COMMENTnumber 5 and you are on PAGE number 5 asking for an official source *shrug*.

Ok let me be very clear.

That statement I did read. That statement did not say anything about CARRY RUNS. NOR DID IT SANCTION THE USE OF GOLD PURCHASED THROUGH CROWN EXCHANGE FOR CARRY RUNS

Now I am so sick and tired of people with such a low level of intelligence that they cannot see that . Kindly find a bridge somewhere and contem

Heelie wrote: »

Stratti wrote: »

Heelie wrote: »

Stratti wrote: »

Heelie wrote: »

Stratti wrote: »

OneWhomWaits wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

OneWhomWaits wrote: »

A barrier spam is wrapping players into giant balls of bubble wrap. The clear requires very little skill, effort, or execution of mechanics. Some of those clears have over 70 barriers cast.

A necro ult is a damage ult and does not relieve the players of the need to actually perform the mechanics and play intelligently. It will not protect you from damage or any normal trial mechanic.

Try then to bring team packed with stam necro DDs into raid but instead of collosus tell them to use dawnbreaker. If collosus ulti is not changing that much and is not protecting You from anything then there shouldnt be big difference right ? Oh and btw can You tell me the name of any group that completed godslayer without spamming that ulti ?

I think you may have missed what I was getting at. OP asks/whines that carries for gold are sanctioned by ZOS.
Code posts that he feels like carries cheapen accomplishments.
I post that the accomplishments are already cheapened by how easily they can be spammed through anyways. What does it really matter if we carry people through them?

Necro ult vs. barrier spam vs. anything else is an entirely different conversation that has nothing to do with what we were discussing.

whines?
I see what you did there. It seems to be common. I asked a question, a serious question that relates to ethics within the game and the integrity of the system, you make a smart alec remark.

What I hear from you two is a self-absorbed conversation that amounts to a circle jerk between two end-gamers who want more attention toward their elite playstyle.

Take it elsewhere.

Your question was answered on page One why are you still here?

O. Snarky and stupid as well. Did you see a source mentioned. Maybe where you are from you believe things without official sources.

#2 - This is my thread. As the OP it pings me everytime someone replies.

Let me tell you what I think of you and your kind. I think you rip people off into these runs. I think you profit from this misguided view that people have that it is advantageous to them to run with your team. I think you couldn't care less how they obtained that gold as long as it is in your pocket. I think that is an extension of some of the things wrong with certain countries and how they treat this world.

I am not American if that's what you think 😂

I never scammed anyone from their gold
Any gold I ever made was from willing buyers.

As for the morality I could'nt care much less. At least 50% of all gold i ever made i gave away to my friends and some times strangers. The rest i spent in the crown store or in guild stores.

Any comment by Gina is ZOS's official position. Just letting you know.

If any gold was illegaly obtained it's a case between the buyer and ZOS. Not my problem. But I highly doubt it ever was, we do vet people.

Yes. I don't expect for you to have the morality to see the ethical problems you may have with that. Ultimately it is your right if you are allowed to.

In my world we deal with evidence. Saying Gina said it is ok is not the same as showing an official statement.

By all means profit off the ability to carry people through the game. If you read the earlier post my issue was with it advertised and spammed throughout Wayrest. What has been represented is that is against the rules.

Given that Gina is unlikely to respond to a players concern if you can direct me to this statement of hers that would be fine

I will repeat myself if Gina said so on either her official discord or forum account. It's ZOS's official position.

Let's be very clear. I read that post. As someone well educated in deconstructing clause I can tell that it does not expressly permit the use of gold for carries. Carry is not an in-game item. If that was a legal dispute there would be an argument about what is the meaning of an in-game item. For example if you used USD to purchase Crowns and Exchanged it for Gold we can be comfortable that is allowed as they have condoned it.

If you used that gold to purchase a carry you would not necessarily be covered by her statement. Note you are not expressly forbidden either. It is what we call a grey area. It is in the grey area that all manner of issues arise.

So until Gina says open that gold purchases of carries are fine and acknowledges that some of that gold will be acquired by USD (or any other currency) then you cannot make that statement. If Gina says it is OK, then ZOS will be condoning people using USD (or any other) to buy gear and titles.

If this is the route they want to go then it is a matter for individual consumers to determine whether or not they support such a company and a blatant cash grab. I for one am not one who would support a company with this tenuous handle of ethical conduct.

Araneae6537

Wow, OP insults the morals of those who sell carries and the intelligence of those who buy them — and has a fondness for calling people “snarky” and “sparky” — it’s all rather hilarious really.

On a more relevant note, I do hope that I can arrange to pay for a vDoM (semi-)carry during the event. I love to work with and learn with people but that just hasn’t been happening in my PUG attempts. At this point I’d rather pay, learn some things and get the gear.

Stratti

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

Stratti wrote: »

Neoealth wrote: »

Since OP has had his argument metaphorically blown out of the water and given me a few minutes of fun watching I thought I'd just chime in and put forward another angle which I don't think has been touched upon.

Let us not forget OP that this game is a MMORPG with the RPG being the important part, role playing game. Some people might want to role play being able to hire a mercenary. So to recap, it's been clearly shown it's not p2w, it's not against the rules and no one gets hurt, and it fits into the style of the game from a role playing point of view as well.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Not very smart let me tell you slow

Muppet A : Buys crowns with USD
Muppet A : Exchanges Crowns for Gold
Muppet A : Buys Runs through Vet DSA , Vet SS , Vet CR and completely gears
Muppet A : Used USD to Buy Runs which gave him a huge WIN

See that.

How is that not Pay to Win. Maybe use your brains a little sparky

I've figured it out... Trump started playing ESO and hijacked a forum account... It all makes sense now. Lmelao!!!!!!!!!

At least we can rest assured that the majority of these posts will be gone by the time the mods come to work in a few hours. But thanks for the entertainment. 😉

O.
Again with the inability to comprehend basics. It is ok sparky you are not alone. Here is a thought reread slowly so you can understand, every word.

Stratti

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Wow, OP insults the morals of those who sell carries and the intelligence of those who buy them — and has a fondness for calling people “snarky” and “sparky” — it’s all rather hilarious really.

On a more relevant note, I do hope that I can arrange to pay for a vDoM (semi-)carry during the event. I love to work with and learn with people but that just hasn’t been happening in my PUG attempts. At this point I’d rather pay, learn some things and get the gear.

Yes, because you are one of those people that would rather pay then learn, leap frog then earn, scan then read and feign intelligence rather than actually gain an education.

Let me know how that works for you in a few decades.

Heelie

code65536 wrote: »

themaddaedra wrote: »

And if you don't see how it's hypocrasy to be ok with people who buy titles then to humiliate who get those titles by actually playing (even if the play is lower than what you consider decent) then this is where i stop discussing about it. Can't solve a puzzle with irrelevant pieces.

+1

It has nothing to do with humiliating anyone for being bad or cheesing. What I see/saw is people running barriers and doing 14:55 GH runs and then playing it off as if they're in the cool kids Club. Where as a guy buying the run most of the time don't Think so.

I would argue it's harder to obtain the gold than cheesing the run in most cases

I don't see a problem with players setting a clear destinction between score and acheivement running but still selling runs on the side

If anything the Cheese groups deminished the meaning og these titles enough for people to feel comfortable selling them

Araneae6537

Jem_Kindheart wrote: »

Yeah score runs are where the realllll action happens. You can't buy those, you HAVE to perform, especially as a healer. As a healer I have to perform, it is not optional.

There's an amazing feeling when you make it on the Leaderboards, I've made it maybe 10 or 12 times, with scores that were quickly knocked off lolol but still. Those times were a huge feeling inside, bigger than any skin achiev. Like this week I got #324 in vSO which is a messy place to heal. That score is a JOKE compared to the ones at the top. An absolute joke in relation to the teams really pushing scores. But still things like that mean a lot inside

That’s awesome, @Jem_Kindheart ! I hope to get there, although currently enjoying vet dungeons more than vet trials, but maybe that’s just where I’m at currently and the latter feels crazy to me without even being vet yet! But I totally know the feeling and part of why I love being a healer.

Stratti

Heelie wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

themaddaedra wrote: »

And if you don't see how it's hypocrasy to be ok with people who buy titles then to humiliate who get those titles by actually playing (even if the play is lower than what you consider decent) then this is where i stop discussing about it. Can't solve a puzzle with irrelevant pieces.

+1

It has nothing to do with humiliating anyone for being bad or cheesing. What I see/saw is people running barriers and doing 14:55 GH runs and then playing it off as if they're in the cool kids Club. Where as a guy buying the run most of the time don't Think so.

I would argue it's harder to obtain the gold than cheesing the run in most cases

I don't see a problem with players setting a clear destinction between score and acheivement running but still selling runs on the side

If anything the Cheese groups deminished the meaning og these titles enough for people to feel comfortable selling them

The issue I am seeing with this, and I am not a player that is doing anything other than tanking simple Vet Trial prog groups, what happens when too many things diminish the achievement. At what point do the elite players simply not see any real benefit in continuing progression.

AgaTheGreat

Tigerseye wrote: »

dcam86b14_ESO wrote: »

This has been going on since the dawn of MMOs and it wont go away.
Stop trying to control how people play.

Doesn't make it a good thing.

The more people can charge for carries, the less incentive there is for them to help players, who want to raid/do trials, learn to do them for free.

Everything ends up locked behind a transaction, with virtually the only people progressing for free being those who already knew the people they play with in real life.

This is what was happening in WoW - almost no guild was recruiting and almost everyone was trying to charge the players, they had intentionally kept down, to experience raids.

The thing is, end game raiding community is small because it takes time and experience to get there. Time that people who sell carries might not have to devote to teach players how to play the game in order to be at the same level.

Nowadays people just expect to join an established group and do trials. I personally know of only one team that built their experience from ground up to reach the top. A year and a half ago they were barely scraping craglorn leaderboards and progging vmol. Now they're at the top of most leaderboards. But it took time, perseverance, practise, a lot of team building and member changes and most of all leadership with vision and ambition.

It's First Alliance PVE on PS4 EU.
Most of its members got experienced together that's why it's such a good team.

If there were more teams built to follow such road, there would be more people in hardcore end game. But building a team, gaining experience and progressing together is way more difficult than just joining some other group. That's why there's so much crying about carries and "people not helping".

I haven't helped a progging group in a while because I don't know anyone who needs help. But I do have time to give. It's not true that end game community doesn't get involved with less experienced players.

Sanguinor2

Stratti wrote: »

Ok let me be very clear.

That statement I did read. That statement did not say anything about CARRY RUNS. NOR DID IT SANCTION THE USE OF GOLD PURCHASED THROUGH CROWN EXCHANGE FOR CARRY RUNS

Now I am so sick and tired of people with such a low level of intelligence that they cannot see that . Kindly find a bridge somewhere and contem

It does not explicitly Mention carry runs true, but Im sure you can agree that what you get from a carry run is an ingame item, and since it says any ingame item, aka anything you can obtain ingame, Crown store items explicitly included, can be traded for anything else that is obtainable ingame, you following thus far?
So say you do a carry run for gear or a Skin, both are ingame items btw, and you pay for it with Gold, aka an ingame item, you trade 1 ingame item for another ingame item, still following me?
And lets go with the one paying for the carry run obtaining the Gold from trading Crown store items, aka ingame, items for Gold, aka ingame items, then it is covered by Gina´s Statement. Now if he uses the Gold, aka ingame item, to pay for a carry run for a Skin or gear, aka ingame items, there is just a trade of one ingame item, Gold, for another ingame item, Skin or gear.

Btw for someone complaining About ad hominem attacks you sure seem to like them yourself, how does that saying go again, Rules for thee not for me? Are you, perchance, a fan of this Statement?
With respect towards your last sentence, kindly pull a Publius Quinctilius Varus.

Jem_Kindheart

Op still hasn't addressed: what advantage? Lol. Against whom? The difference between regular ez farm dungeon or crafted gear isn't 500% lol. Especially not in the hands of a player with low skill. Against whom, exactly? PvP is definitely all about skikl. You can get guildies to craft sets or craft it yourself or go farm the gear you wanna try out. The vDSA staff isn't going to make a loser into a winner.

And in PvE, we explained repeatedly it's more about personal gaming skill than gear. It's not going to "win" you a spot on Hodors raid team just because a player paid for a vDSA gear run. It doesn't win anyone anything. In vet raid teams pretty much everyone has had the gear they need farmed up AND proven they have the skills. When this theoretical "p2w" player shows up with the best gear and got them with zero skill, they probably won't last more than one raid night lol.

We're talking difference in gear in single percentage points lol. If the top dps in the game is doing 100k, and the bottom dps is doing 2k, that difference is greater than anything the OP's definition in p2w gear is going to provide for.

So who is winning? The person buying gear runs, I promise you, is not going to suddenly start 'winning'. If they're very good players, then they're already winning... And probably already have clears and gold and are just lazy now. If they suck or are mediocre, they're not all of the sudden going to be good or getting on better teams.

Nobody is buying their way into raiding.

Siohwenoeht

Stratti wrote: »

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

Stratti wrote: »

Neoealth wrote: »

Since OP has had his argument metaphorically blown out of the water and given me a few minutes of fun watching I thought I'd just chime in and put forward another angle which I don't think has been touched upon.

Let us not forget OP that this game is a MMORPG with the RPG being the important part, role playing game. Some people might want to role play being able to hire a mercenary. So to recap, it's been clearly shown it's not p2w, it's not against the rules and no one gets hurt, and it fits into the style of the game from a role playing point of view as well.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Not very smart let me tell you slow

Muppet A : Buys crowns with USD
Muppet A : Exchanges Crowns for Gold
Muppet A : Buys Runs through Vet DSA , Vet SS , Vet CR and completely gears
Muppet A : Used USD to Buy Runs which gave him a huge WIN

See that.

How is that not Pay to Win. Maybe use your brains a little sparky

I've figured it out... Trump started playing ESO and hijacked a forum account... It all makes sense now. Lmelao!!!!!!!!!

At least we can rest assured that the majority of these posts will be gone by the time the mods come to work in a few hours. But thanks for the entertainment. 😉

O.
Again with the inability to comprehend basics. It is ok sparky you are not alone. Here is a thought reread slowly so you can understand, every word.

You must be quite the Rhode's scholar. You're an expert on ethics, law, economics, and even the minutiae of whether a zos employee's statement is an official company stance.

Yet you fail to grasp even the simplest of human discourse; respect for the one's with whom you are conversing. As with any forum, especially one on the internet, you will encounter varying arrays of education, background, experience and, dare I say, intelligence. While those of us who understand the above will not bring braggadocio to the table, especially on matters of differing opinions, you have proven the real problem in every society; that someone can sit behind the anonymity of the internet to belittle and insult anyone.

I will always rise to meet those like you and respond in kind because I know what you won't admit; that for all your claims of genius, you are truly insecure about your place in the world.

Stratti

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Stratti wrote: »

Ok let me be very clear.

That statement I did read. That statement did not say anything about CARRY RUNS. NOR DID IT SANCTION THE USE OF GOLD PURCHASED THROUGH CROWN EXCHANGE FOR CARRY RUNS

Now I am so sick and tired of people with such a low level of intelligence that they cannot see that . Kindly find a bridge somewhere and contem

It does not explicitly Mention carry runs true, but Im sure you can agree that what you get from a carry run is an ingame item, and since it says any ingame item, aka anything you can obtain ingame, Crown store items explicitly included, can be traded for anything else that is obtainable ingame, you following thus far?
So say you do a carry run for gear or a Skin, both are ingame items btw, and you pay for it with Gold, aka an ingame item, you trade 1 ingame item for another ingame item, still following me?
And lets go with the one paying for the carry run obtaining the Gold from trading Crown store items, aka ingame, items for Gold, aka ingame items, then it is covered by Gina´s Statement. Now if he uses the Gold, aka ingame item, to pay for a carry run for a Skin or gear, aka ingame items, there is just a trade of one ingame item, Gold, for another ingame item, Skin or gear.

Btw for someone complaining About ad hominem attacks you sure seem to like them yourself, how does that saying go again, Rules for thee not for me? Are you, perchance, a fan of this Statement?
With respect towards your last sentence, kindly pull a Publius Quinctilius Varus.

Let me break it down for you. If this was a legal matter (it is not) we would break the clause down word by word and then the meaning within.

In-Game Item : You could argue selling an item in game is fine (i would agree) but when you extend that meaning to mean selling a run that is not something that is explicit - in other words you have to infer the meaning , meaning you have to make a logical step. Is it reasonable to assume that she also means runs? Is it reasonable to assume that she doesn't mean runs?

On the Ad Hominem I tend to respond in the tone I am presented. You have put up an intelligent post, with a thoughtful opinion so I will engage with you the same. Many here start with insults and then complain when they get it back. This is an important issue for the spirit of the game. Let us be real here, the game is not in the best shape given the recent nerfs and recent drama.

Ashtaris

Katahdin wrote: »

Yes it is sanctioned by ZoS

I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone from ZOS sanction a carry here or on other media but on the other hand, I don’t have a problem with it either. If someone wants to spend 3M Gold for a title or a skin, that’s up to them.

Heelie

AgaTheGreat wrote: »

Tigerseye wrote: »

dcam86b14_ESO wrote: »

This has been going on since the dawn of MMOs and it wont go away.
Stop trying to control how people play.

Doesn't make it a good thing.

The more people can charge for carries, the less incentive there is for them to help players, who want to raid/do trials, learn to do them for free.

Everything ends up locked behind a transaction, with virtually the only people progressing for free being those who already knew the people they play with in real life.

This is what was happening in WoW - almost no guild was recruiting and almost everyone was trying to charge the players, they had intentionally kept down, to experience raids.

The thing is, end game raiding community is small because it takes time and experience to get there. Time that people who sell carries might not have to devote to teach players how to play the game in order to be at the same level.

Nowadays people just expect to join an established group and do trials. I personally know of only one team that built their experience from ground up to reach the top. A year and a half ago they were barely scraping craglorn leaderboards and progging vmol. Now they're at the top of most leaderboards. But it took time, perseverance, practise, a lot of team building and member changes and most of all leadership with vision and ambition.

It's First Alliance PVE on PS4 EU.
Most of its members got experienced together that's why it's such a good team.

If there were more teams built to follow such road, there would be more people in hardcore end game. But building a team, gaining experience and progressing together is way more difficult than just joining some other group. That's why there's so much crying about carries and "people not helping".

I haven't helped a progging group in a while because I don't know anyone who needs help. But I do have time to give. It's not true that end game community doesn't get involved with less experienced players.

Almost every top end game player I know has one og more hobby guilds they help with ealy or mid tier progression. Often because of nationality.

Artorias24

Stratti wrote: »

Artorias24 wrote: »

What If i earned all my gold with ingame Farming and selling ingame items. And with this gold i buy a carry run, is this still pay to win?

What do you think. Did you Pay, meaning did you use REAL WORLD CURRENCY

Carry runs where sold before crown store gifting became a thing. So back then this wasnt pay to win and completly fine?

And now you can make some Gold by selling crowns. And you are mad that with this gold players buy some kind of ingame Advantages.. so your REAL Problem is selling crowns for ingame Gold. Wich is already stated by ZOS that they are fine with this.

I think no further discussion needed.

Neoealth

Stratti wrote: »

Neoealth wrote: »

Since OP has had his argument metaphorically blown out of the water and given me a few minutes of fun watching I thought I'd just chime in and put forward another angle which I don't think has been touched upon.

Let us not forget OP that this game is a MMORPG with the RPG being the important part, role playing game. Some people might want to role play being able to hire a mercenary. So to recap, it's been clearly shown it's not p2w, it's not against the rules and no one gets hurt, and it fits into the style of the game from a role playing point of view as well.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Not very smart let me tell you slow

Muppet A : Buys crowns with USD
Muppet A : Exchanges Crowns for Gold
Muppet A : Buys Runs through Vet DSA , Vet SS , Vet CR and completely gears
Muppet A : Used USD to Buy Runs which gave him a huge WIN

See that.

How is that not Pay to Win. Maybe use your brains a little sparky

It's already been explained to you lots of times on previous pages, starting back as early as page 2 I think. You keep going round in circles defaulting back to your original thought process. It's been quite entertaining to witness.

Which is why I tried to inject a new view point slightly with the point I mentioned about it being a role playing game. Have any thoughts on that, or are you going to continue to chase your tail with the pay2win loop?

Araneae6537

Stratti wrote: »

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Wow, OP insults the morals of those who sell carries and the intelligence of those who buy them — and has a fondness for calling people “snarky” and “sparky” — it’s all rather hilarious really.

On a more relevant note, I do hope that I can arrange to pay for a vDoM (semi-)carry during the event. I love to work with and learn with people but that just hasn’t been happening in my PUG attempts. At this point I’d rather pay, learn some things and get the gear.

Yes, because you are one of those people that would rather pay then learn, leap frog then earn, scan then read and feign intelligence rather than actually gain an education.

Let me know how that works for you in a few decades.

LOL, more of your hilariously stupid assumptions about me. I have a Ph.D. in cell biology, sparky. I could explain why that means I value my time and why I might pay to learn when other avenues are unfruitful and because I do in turn value other’s time and expertise, but you’ll read what you want into it anyway. Keep up feigning your high morals and intelligence though, maybe someone will buy it if they don’t look too closely.