The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Selling Carries - Group claims Gina was in their Discord and that it is sanctioned
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bmnoble✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So, on the NA server and this guy is spamming the zone chat in Wayrest peddling carries for 3mill a pop.
I messaged him and reported him both for spamming and for selling carries. He and I spoke and he said it was sanctioned by ZOS and not bannable. I
Is this the case?
So you are pay to win? $ to Crowns to Gold to Carry
This puts you worse than many other MMO and frankly I would like to know if this is indeed sanctioned by ZOS - I won't name the person as per forum rules. This is an important issue, given that a segment of the game will be likely to convert $$ to Gold for this.
There are plenty of gold rich players in the game that have never sold crowns, instead making use of a combination of daily writs and trade guilds, along with various gear/motif farming all in game and use there excess gold to buy crowns off those who are short on time and want quick gold.
On the lower end of the scale you have players that pay few K of gold per run of a Skyreach carry to speed up their leveling of alts.
After that you get richer players farming gear who will tip group members generously if a piece drops in their desired trait.
Then you have those that do Vet DLC dungeon carries usually charge around 100 - 200K per group member per run. Only gets stupidly high if your after achievements as well.
After that Trial carries which can go well above 10 million gold for some achievements/skins.
Crowns to my knowledge are going for as high as 275 a piece but more commonly around the 160 - 200 gold per mark.
Around 5000 crowns will get you a million gold, unless some idiot has won the lottery or inherited a fortune to waste turning into virtual currency its a very small percentage of players that could use crowns to cover those kind of runs and even fewer who would be willing to throw away that kind of money.
Using crowns to make your gold is quick in the short term but a complete waste of money in the long term.
The reality is there are people who have been playing this game for years who have accumulated more gold than they know what to do with in some cases or just the knowledge to raise funds quickly, all within the game no crown selling at all.
Most I have had personally is about 20 million gold in my inventory, all from daily writs and being in trade guilds, didn't happen over night, it takes weeks sometimes months but the gold does build up.
At the moment I have just over 7 million, I spent a lot in the last few months buying the overland sets that interested me and golding out quite a few of the sets/jewelry I have collected and use from time to time, yes even jewelry its my gold to waste.
When I am doing my writs making 160 - 300k a day is not out of reach, its just a matter of being stuffed to put in the 2hrs each day to do that.
At the moment there is nothing I really want to buy with gold, I have stopped bothering with motifs and for the time being stopped doing my daily writs, since there is nothing I want, though I still keep my eye on the golden/luxury vendor each week.
I could easily go the next 60 or so weeks keeping up higher than the min weekly donations to the 5 trade guilds I am in until I feel like becoming more active in the game again, right now I am just playing causally doing quests and a few dungeons every now and then.
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OneWhomWaits✭✭✭Almost every top end game player I know has one og more hobby guilds they help with ealy or mid tier progression. Often because of nationality.
+1
Just about every raider I know helps out with progression groups. Selling carries does not in any way detract from a willingness to take the time to teach newer players and help them progress. At the rate we're losing end game raiders we'd be fools not to train up the newcomers.
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FierceSam✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭EnemyOfDaState wrote: »I am in multiple guilds that literally raffle carries every week, why would this be an issue? Lets assume no money was exchanged and a guild just decided to take a garbage player through Vet trials to get him all the gear, would that be an issue? This is no different then buying stuff with alliance points and selling it to PVE only players.
All guilds that do vet trials take ‘garbage’ players through them.
It’s how those players become good.
I’d assume your guilds had to spend a looooong time on you
Loving your attitude tho2 -
Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
In-Game Item : You could argue selling an item in game is fine (i would agree) but when you extend that meaning to mean selling a run that is not something that is explicit - in other words you have to infer the meaning , meaning you have to make a logical step. Is it reasonable to assume that she also means runs? Is it reasonable to assume that she doesn't mean runs?
Ignoring your first and last Paragraph I only want to talk About the part I quoted.
We established that selling ingame items is fine, or trading one ingame item for another ingame item for that matter.
Now towards a run being not explicit, in most, arguably all cases, a carry run is for one (or multiple) explicit Things. Those can vary but all are ingame items in the broadest sense of the term that it is something obtainable ingame, which includes gear, Skins or titles. The most common advertisment you see in Zone Chat for carry runs is trading currency for goods, aka Gold for Skin, which are both ingame items, so trading one for the other is explicitly allowed "trading any ingame item for other ingame items is allowed" to Quote Gina. The Thing one could argue About is if ingame item extends towards Achievements aswell since they are somtimes bought aswell.
To summarize: A carry run is never bought for the fun of it but rather with an explicit Goal in mind. Most of the Goals are ingame items, aka gear, Skins, cosmetics, or titles. The only Edge case might be Achievements which dont offer any collectible. Using the logic that the carry run is bought to obtain a certain ingame item it is covered by Gina´s Statement explicitly since it is a trade of currency (ingame item) for another ingame item (gear, Skin, cosmetic, title).Politeness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.5 -
Stratti✭✭✭✭✭Sanguinor2 wrote: »
In-Game Item : You could argue selling an item in game is fine (i would agree) but when you extend that meaning to mean selling a run that is not something that is explicit - in other words you have to infer the meaning , meaning you have to make a logical step. Is it reasonable to assume that she also means runs? Is it reasonable to assume that she doesn't mean runs?
Ignoring your first and last Paragraph I only want to talk About the part I quoted.
We established that selling ingame items is fine, or trading one ingame item for another ingame item for that matter.
Now towards a run being not explicit, in most, arguably all cases, a carry run is for one (or multiple) explicit Things. Those can vary but all are ingame items in the broadest sense of the term that it is something obtainable ingame, which includes gear, Skins or titles. The most common advertisment you see in Zone Chat for carry runs is trading currency for goods, aka Gold for Skin, which are both ingame items, so trading one for the other is explicitly allowed "trading any ingame item for other ingame items is allowed" to Quote Gina. The Thing one could argue About is if ingame item extends towards Achievements aswell since they are somtimes bought aswell.
To summarize: A carry run is never bought for the fun of it but rather with an explicit Goal in mind. Most of the Goals are ingame items, aka gear, Skins, cosmetics, or titles. The only Edge case might be Achievements which dont offer any collectible. Using the logic that the carry run is bought to obtain a certain ingame item it is covered by Gina´s Statement explicitly since it is a trade of currency (ingame item) for another ingame item (gear, Skin, cosmetic, title).
Yes. That is an argument that one can make. I would like ZOS to clarify that themselves before you lock them in to a view. Let me tell you it has been about 70/30 for and against here. I have also noticed an incredible amount of the 70 who rather than have a rational point of view, seem to think that engaging in ad hominem is a way forward. It seems that the concept of someone BUYING a run is not to them pay to win. I guess they either feel that PAY does not mean buying crowns with cash and then GOLD or rather WIN doesn't mean completing all the trials in the game on VET mode via simply paying for it. The lunacy is astounding. The fact they will lead with ad hominem is indicative of the education and intelligence. You on the other make a good point.
At the end of the day the argument is literally about whether I can use my cash to buy a run, as long as I buy a crown and then exchange it. That is the issue. The issue is whether or not ZOS want people buying runs and whether they want them advertising it in Zone.
I can only surmise a few reasons why some have acted vitriolically. 1
1. They buy or sell and fell an inherent shame for doing so (as they should)
2. That is how they interact with people to mask a weak personality offline.
At the end of the day for me personally I already am regretting purchasing the ESO Plus for 12 months - frankly they are screwing up royally lately and there are just better things to do ...
Like responding to the little trolls on the forums.1 -
Stratti✭✭✭✭✭OneWhomWaits wrote: »
That is funny. So your view is that Lawyers do not interpret clauses and they do not do so by defining each word within the clause. There have been some funny trolls tonight.
Let me use an an analogy of what you just said:
You do not breath by inhaling.1 -
bmnoble✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Sanguinor2 wrote: »
In-Game Item : You could argue selling an item in game is fine (i would agree) but when you extend that meaning to mean selling a run that is not something that is explicit - in other words you have to infer the meaning , meaning you have to make a logical step. Is it reasonable to assume that she also means runs? Is it reasonable to assume that she doesn't mean runs?
Ignoring your first and last Paragraph I only want to talk About the part I quoted.
We established that selling ingame items is fine, or trading one ingame item for another ingame item for that matter.
Now towards a run being not explicit, in most, arguably all cases, a carry run is for one (or multiple) explicit Things. Those can vary but all are ingame items in the broadest sense of the term that it is something obtainable ingame, which includes gear, Skins or titles. The most common advertisment you see in Zone Chat for carry runs is trading currency for goods, aka Gold for Skin, which are both ingame items, so trading one for the other is explicitly allowed "trading any ingame item for other ingame items is allowed" to Quote Gina. The Thing one could argue About is if ingame item extends towards Achievements aswell since they are somtimes bought aswell.
To summarize: A carry run is never bought for the fun of it but rather with an explicit Goal in mind. Most of the Goals are ingame items, aka gear, Skins, cosmetics, or titles. The only Edge case might be Achievements which dont offer any collectible. Using the logic that the carry run is bought to obtain a certain ingame item it is covered by Gina´s Statement explicitly since it is a trade of currency (ingame item) for another ingame item (gear, Skin, cosmetic, title).
Yes. That is an argument that one can make. I would like ZOS to clarify that themselves before you lock them in to a view. Let me tell you it has been about 70/30 for and against here. I have also noticed an incredible amount of the 70 who rather than have a rational point of view, seem to think that engaging in ad hominem is a way forward. It seems that the concept of someone BUYING a run is not to them pay to win. I guess they either feel that PAY does not mean buying crowns with cash and then GOLD or rather WIN doesn't mean completing all the trials in the game on VET mode via simply paying for it. The lunacy is astounding. The fact they will lead with ad hominem is indicative of the education and intelligence. You on the other make a good point.
At the end of the day the argument is literally about whether I can use my cash to buy a run, as long as I buy a crown and then exchange it. That is the issue. The issue is whether or not ZOS want people buying runs and whether they want them advertising it in Zone.
I can only surmise a few reasons why some have acted vitriolically. 1
1. They buy or sell and fell an inherent shame for doing so (as they should)
2. That is how they interact with people to mask a weak personality offline.
At the end of the day for me personally I already am regretting purchasing the ESO Plus for 12 months - frankly they are screwing up royally lately and there are just better things to do ...
Like responding to the little trolls on the forums.
The flaw with calling it pay to win is, any player can get a group of friends or guild mates or try their luck with a PUG group and do the content without spending a single crown or gold coin.
When your carried through content you don't get to sit in a corner and wait to deliver the killing blow on some boss, especially if your after achievements, you actually have to do your part in the group.
What they are paying for is a competent group, completely eliminating the randomness of the group they could end up getting and peoples time to run the content with them, when they have the time to do so, a lot of that content does not take 5 minutes some people are prepared to pay through the nose to avoid having runs that fail or to get the content done as quick as possible.
As for the gear other than monster helms and arena weapons the sets you get from trials are geared towards bonuses against PVE enemies.
I don't know about you but I have not met many PVP players with large amounts of gold to hire carry groups and as for end game PVE, players getting the carries are only sticking around till they have their desired gear/achievements/collectibles, then you don't see them doing that content again, more often than not they are paying to get it over with and never go back.
I don't see what massive advantage they are getting over everyone else when skilled players can already get everything they are paying for by doing the content with friends/guild mates/random PUG's etc...
Even if they get the best META gear by paying for it does not mean they magically know how to use it effectively in PVP or PVE.
You can turn up in a Battleground or Cyrodiil with the best gear all golded out or try your hand at VET PVE Content, if you don't know how to make use of it you will end up just as dead as you would before you got it.
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wolfbone✭✭✭✭✭So, on the NA server and this guy is spamming the zone chat in Wayrest peddling carries for 3mill a pop.
I messaged him and reported him both for spamming and for selling carries. He and I spoke and he said it was sanctioned by ZOS and not bannable. I
Is this the case?
So you are pay to win? $ to Crowns to Gold to Carry
This puts you worse than many other MMO and frankly I would like to know if this is indeed sanctioned by ZOS - I won't name the person as per forum rules. This is an important issue, given that a segment of the game will be likely to convert $$ to Gold for this.
I think it's pathetic that it's bannable. if people want to buy trial carries for skins, then let them. some of the trrials can be quite difficult if you have a difficult group. if zos is banning people for offering their serivces, then zos needs to grow up.0 -
Saelent✭✭✭✭✭So, on the NA server and this guy is spamming the zone chat in Wayrest peddling carries for 3mill a pop.
I messaged him and reported him both for spamming and for selling carries. He and I spoke and he said it was sanctioned by ZOS and not bannable. I
Is this the case?
So you are pay to win? $ to Crowns to Gold to Carry
This puts you worse than many other MMO and frankly I would like to know if this is indeed sanctioned by ZOS - I won't name the person as per forum rules. This is an important issue, given that a segment of the game will be likely to convert $$ to Gold for this.
I think it's pathetic that it's bannable. if people want to buy trial carries for skins, then let them. some of the trrials can be quite difficult if you have a difficult group. if zos is banning people for offering their serivces, then zos needs to grow up.
It isn’t bannable, some people just want it to be because they have no way of finding the gold to buy mercenaries - I recommend Legerdemain.
3mil seems like a bit much but it depends what the carry is for.4 -
gatekeeper13✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I ve never paid anyone to carry me and prefer to never get an achievement than pay 3 mil for it.
But I dont think there is anything wrong with that if someone wants to do it. You pay some people to carry you in a content that you can't complete for various reasons. He offers services and you pay him.
There are many players out there who dont have contact with top tier players and may never be able to accomplish sth. You cant complete vMoL with a guild of 300cp inexperienced players. So, they pay for their assistance. An honest deal.Edited by gatekeeper13 on November 27, 2019 12:35PM5 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭dcam86b14_ESO wrote: »This has been going on since the dawn of MMOs and it wont go away.
Stop trying to control how people play.
Doesn't make it a good thing.
The more people can charge for carries, the less incentive there is for them to help players, who want to raid/do trials, learn to do them for free.
Everything ends up locked behind a transaction, with virtually the only people progressing for free being those who already knew the people they play with in real life.
This is what was happening in WoW - almost no guild was recruiting and almost everyone was trying to charge the players, they had intentionally kept down, to experience raids.
Only thing that saved the game from it was LFR and then Flex (which was a level between LFR and Normal) and yet, some guilds still tried to continue with the carry culture.
I think this was also part of the problem they had with LFR - that it wasn't locking enough players out of raiding for their liking, meaning they were less likely to resort to paying for carries.
The whole thing is perverse and damages games.
You have got 0 evidence for this. The reason for carry discords is that there are more people intrested in skins and gear than people intrested in putting in the effort. Hense why you can sell in game skill as labour.
If you don't like the carry culture just don't buy the runs
No, I don't have, or need, "evidence".
I'm just relating my own personal experience, on one EU server, 8 years ago.
I'm not in a court of law...
Pretend to believe me, or not; I don't care, frankly.
People reading this, who don't sell carries, can make up their own minds about who is more likely to have an axe to grind, here.
Me - someone with no skin in the game, either way - or someone who probably makes a nice in-game living out of selling carries.Edited by Tigerseye on November 27, 2019 12:42PM0 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭dcam86b14_ESO wrote: »This has been going on since the dawn of MMOs and it wont go away.
Stop trying to control how people play.
Doesn't make it a good thing.
The more people can charge for carries, the less incentive there is for them to help players, who want to raid/do trials, learn to do them for free.
Everything ends up locked behind a transaction, with virtually the only people progressing for free being those who already knew the people they play with in real life.
This is what was happening in WoW - almost no guild was recruiting and almost everyone was trying to charge the players, they had intentionally kept down, to experience raids.
Only thing that saved the game from it was LFR and then Flex (which was a level between LFR and Normal) and yet, some guilds still tried to continue with the carry culture.
I think this was also part of the problem players, from these guilds, had with LFR - that it wasn't locking enough players out of raiding for their liking, meaning they were less likely to resort to paying for carries.
The whole thing is perverse and damages games.
This is so unbelievably false, I can't even gather energy to properly respond.
our wow guild and 3 sister guilds (YES THREE) were dedicated to raiding and teaching new players how to play and complete content. Yeah, of course we didn't invite them to scheduled progression or main groups, not until we made the clears flawlessly at least. But what you're saying has no basis in reality nor proof, there were people selling carries but they were a vast minority.
...and yet, somehow, you did gather the energy to respond and accuse me of being a liar, lol.
I'm not lying.
I'm telling the absolute truth about what can and (at least, sometimes) does happen.
I'm not a liar and have no reason to lie.
I would gain nothing from it, remember.
Unlike (potentially) the people selling carries...
I'm not saying anyone is definitely lying, here, but when the "you're lying" accusations start flying around so soon, you do tend to wonder.
Projection.0 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭At the very least, it's crystal clear that a lot of people feel they have a lot to win, or lose, here.
Hence the unfair allegations.0 -
electromagnets✭✭✭This is so idiotic I don’t even know where to start. But baseline is, it’s not even remotely p2w... If someone buys these titles and achievements then tries to get into progression groups or harder content based on those purchased achieves, it’ll be quickly very obvious that they don’t belong there.9
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Inaya✭✭✭✭✭
✭So, on the NA server and this guy is spamming the zone chat in Wayrest peddling carries for 3mill a pop.
I messaged him and reported him both for spamming and for selling carries. He and I spoke and he said it was sanctioned by ZOS and not bannable. I
Is this the case?
So you are pay to win? $ to Crowns to Gold to Carry
This puts you worse than many other MMO and frankly I would like to know if this is indeed sanctioned by ZOS - I won't name the person as per forum rules. This is an important issue, given that a segment of the game will be likely to convert $$ to Gold for this.
1. Many other MMO's have players that sell carries so no, ESO is not worse than any of them.
2. Carries are allowed by many other MMO's - not a big deal
3. This is not an important isssue it is just part of the game that has evolved over time. When I first started MMO's they were almost non-existent. Through the years carries have become more and more common.
4. You assume people who pay for carries are "bad" players or people who only want a shortcut to end game. No credible end game guild is going to give a team spot to someone who has paid for carries and has not learned how to play their character or the mechanics of the game. So my question is shortcut to what?
5. As the player base get older there are more adult responsibilites to deal with therefore less time to play.
6. If you are fortunate enough to be in an end game guild and want to do end game most good guild will help their members "come up through the ranks" so to speak by running them through, getting them gear and teaching mechanics much faster than they could learn on their own. is that a shortcut too?
7. Some people want to see the content, some people want the patterns/recipes, some want shiny gear and have gold to pay.
In the end this takes nothing away from you or anyone else. And while we are at it, what really is pay to win? What are you winning? Are you beating the game? Are there special prizes no one else knows about? Pay to win is nothing more than a catch phrase people use to describe something they disagree with.5 -
Inaya✭✭✭✭✭
✭PS:
LOL at ingame mercs and it being illegal. You can't possibly be serious.
What advantage are they getting in an MMO?
If a teen steals their parents credit card to pay for a carry the last thing those parent should worry about is the MMO. They have real life problems with that kid.
WOW ruined itself. Has nothing to do with carries.4 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭OneWhomWaits wrote: »Player A - Pays Gold to Player B for Carry
Player B sells Gold to Gold Sellers..
This is how it happens and this is Play to Win.
Actually, that is not how we spend our money. I've made more millions than I can even remember in carries.
Once I get paid for a carry I then go to a crown trading discord and an ESO player who wants to sell their crowns for gold sells me crowns. We use our money from carries to purchase stuff from the ESO crown store. I've got almost every mount, outfit, style, crown crate drop, etc in the game. Doing carries is a fantastic way to earn in game money to pay for all of the cool things we want from the crown store. My housing addiction has cost me 60-100Million gold + easily. While I cannot have a house gifted to me, I can purchase crowns for target dummies, furniture, statues, luxury vender items can be bought with carry gold etc. I've also used carry gold to get character slots purchased, race changes, etc.
You must admit that it easy to sell that gold to gold sellers if you so wished. Also easy enough to get people to pay through paypal or any other.
I am not suggesting you personally would but it is possible under the current system is it not?
If so is this something ZOS is happy with - especially when it is being advertised in Wayrest Zone over and over? Could this not compel someone to buy crowns to sell them for that? $$$ they may not have spent?
Yes, plus some of the carriers are, invariably, goldsellers themselves.
At least, that is the case in WoW and I see no logical reason to assume otherwise, here.
We know there are unauthorised sites that sell ESO gold.
So, no need for them to sell it to anyone in-game.
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Hallothiel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Oh good god is this thread still going?!
It’s just an aspect of the game that you do not like.
It is not, as has been REPEATEDLY explained, pay to win.
If people with lots of gold want to pay for a carry to get a title or skin they like, who cares? Even with a top trials group it takes time to get people together & run the damn thing. They are offering a service; one you do not have to buy.
Does the possibility that a player may not have ‘legitimately’ earned that title / skin really matter? No. Remember, this is only a game, and if you are measuring your worth by what titles you have in a video game, may I gently suggest you perhaps seek some help.
And anyway, the skins are horrid, and there is only one title in the game that truly means something 😉🎣7 -
Inaya✭✭✭✭✭
✭OneWhomWaits wrote: »Player A - Pays Gold to Player B for Carry
Player B sells Gold to Gold Sellers..
This is how it happens and this is Play to Win.
Actually, that is not how we spend our money. I've made more millions than I can even remember in carries.
Once I get paid for a carry I then go to a crown trading discord and an ESO player who wants to sell their crowns for gold sells me crowns. We use our money from carries to purchase stuff from the ESO crown store. I've got almost every mount, outfit, style, crown crate drop, etc in the game. Doing carries is a fantastic way to earn in game money to pay for all of the cool things we want from the crown store. My housing addiction has cost me 60-100Million gold + easily. While I cannot have a house gifted to me, I can purchase crowns for target dummies, furniture, statues, luxury vender items can be bought with carry gold etc. I've also used carry gold to get character slots purchased, race changes, etc.
You must admit that it easy to sell that gold to gold sellers if you so wished. Also easy enough to get people to pay through paypal or any other.
I am not suggesting you personally would but it is possible under the current system is it not?
If so is this something ZOS is happy with - especially when it is being advertised in Wayrest Zone over and over? Could this not compel someone to buy crowns to sell them for that? $$$ they may not have spent?
Yes, plus some of the carriers are, invariably, goldsellers themselves.
At least, that is the case in WoW and I see no logical reason to assume otherwise, here.
We know there are unauthorised sites that sell ESO gold.
So, no need for them to sell it to anyone in-game.
Some of the carriers may be gold sellers. There are no facts to prove that claim.
No, most of the carriers in WOW are not gold sellers, they are really good players who make ingame gold by carrying instead of farming, crafting or the auction house. How do I know? I played WOW from Vanilla until a year ago when Activision finally ruining the game. At the end the guild I was GM of was in the top three of the server, most often # 1. A LOT of the people who did carries were friends of mine and they were not gold sellers.0 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »I don't know about anyone else, but I don't know ANYONE who spends REAL $$$ on crowns to sell for gold. Thats crazy as easy as gold is to make in game. Now people buying crowns with gold, yes, but not other way around.
I do.
My (very nice!) GM does, as he wanted to fast-track his son's guild.
You know, get all the attuned crafting stations and stuff and various decorations, for the guild house and (I think) have enough gold to buy traders.
He doesn't do it for personal advantage (i.e. advancing his character), I don't think.
Just to speed up the process of setting up a guild on the EU server.
They originally played on the US one, but found the people there less friendly, apparently.
Of course, I may be accused of falsifying all of this, albeit with no apparent motive to do so, because I'm afraid I don't have any cast iron "evidence" to provide for any of this.
Edited by Tigerseye on November 27, 2019 1:31PM1 -
Nyladreas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Siohwenoeht wrote: »Siohwenoeht wrote: »People can pretty much trade anything in game. Gina has specifically said we can trade items from the crown store for gold. That is trading an in game item for an in game item.
Zos also does not prohibit selling clears for gold but using the forums to drum up business is not permitted. This is not P2W as none of it makes anyone stronger. No aspect of it is P2W.
Also, I see you say nothing about Gina being in their Discord or even what that has to do with any of this.
BTW, I am sure some will thank you. The tend to use threads like these to find new customers.
He was using Zone chat to do it.
Also if you are running endgame trials , which they were offering at vet HM with titles and gear that would give a very significant advantage both in gear and be able to sneak into other trials using that title. Let's be clear this is P2W and seeing it advertised in Wayrest was too much.
Firstly, It's in no way p2w. Secondly, if you are worried that they have endgame gear they didn't "earn" guess what? If they couldn't nclear the content without a carry, they certainly won't be able to utilize the gear to it's full potential. Gear isn't and never has been the only factor to being good at ESO.
OMG Seriously
Can you pay for it
YES
Does it provide you an ingame win
YES
Why is it not pay to win?
Waiting patiently...
P2W has long been held as being able to buy something in the cash shop that would make you stronger than what can be obtained in game. Clearing content is an in game activity. As such it is obtainable in game and in fact only obtainable in game.
We have explained this already.
OK
So you clearly cannot understand what PAY MEANS
It is not restricted to the transaction in the cash store. In ESO you can buy Crowns with $$$$
THEN
USE CROWNS
TO BUY BUY BUY
GOLD
WITH THAT GOLD
YOU BUY
RUNS
THAT IS HOW YOU PAY TO WIN ======= (Sorry for Caps others, these kids are having trouble with multi-layered economic ideas)
By the way you are presenting yourself, I'd wager I'm close to double your age...
But that aside, there is nothing yet, that is pay to win. Once something is offered for crowns only that is more powerful than anything in game, and not giftable, that is pay to win.
The "not giftable" is the important part here, as you wouldn't be able to purchase it with earnable gold.
There is no vastly complicated economics at work here.
IF YOU CAN EARN IT IN GAME, IT'S NOT PAY TO WIN.
not sorry for the all-caps.
Honestly,
My frustration is how stupid people here are . Really , Really, Really completely and utterly stupid.
I can only surmise you are from America and therefore a product of your education.
If you can reach into your pocket and buy gold through selling crowns (something condoned by ZOS)
If you can then use that gold to BUY A RUN THEN IT IS PAY
IS IT AN ADVANTAGE
YES
.
My attitude is exasperation at the sheer stupidity that is present here in this forum. Absolute moronic intellects.
Well, you sure as hell make the impression of an above average intellectual by throwing an entire nation into the same pile and calling it stupid. Let me bow to you and your greatness. Well done, citizen.11 -
peacenote✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I have been somewhat on the fence about carries (there is another thread where I wrote some thoughts somewhere around here) but I do greatly dislike the Crown/gold exchange. I think that has been very bad for the game.
One thing I will say is that we learned in one of the ZOS responses to the balance threads that they monitor completion rates as a way to gauge whether content is accessible enough and whether balance changes were successful. This is maybe something to think about WRT carries if they become too common... they are going to be skewing the metrics and could be contributing to combat change mistakes as it is going to look like more people can complete the content as opposed to the actual numbers. By what margin, I don't know, but something to think about.
(BTW I don't agree that completion rates are a good way to determine whether, say, healing combat changes are effective, but that is what is being done today.)2 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭OneWhomWaits wrote: »Imagine assuming every response is an American at a time of day when most Americans are sleeping.
Think most gold sellers, who sell carries, are from Asia?
Maybe even Africa, at this point?
It's not worth most Western adults getting into all that, as (as someone already pointed out), what you can make per person amounts to less than min wage, over here.
...and that is even taking into account that min wage is now absurdly low.
Of course, some of the carriers may be Western kids, too.
If you don't/can't earn anything much, legally, less than min wage may well seem better than nothing.Edited by Tigerseye on November 27, 2019 1:57PM0 -
Heelie✭✭✭✭✭OneWhomWaits wrote: »Player A - Pays Gold to Player B for Carry
Player B sells Gold to Gold Sellers..
This is how it happens and this is Play to Win.
Actually, that is not how we spend our money. I've made more millions than I can even remember in carries.
Once I get paid for a carry I then go to a crown trading discord and an ESO player who wants to sell their crowns for gold sells me crowns. We use our money from carries to purchase stuff from the ESO crown store. I've got almost every mount, outfit, style, crown crate drop, etc in the game. Doing carries is a fantastic way to earn in game money to pay for all of the cool things we want from the crown store. My housing addiction has cost me 60-100Million gold + easily. While I cannot have a house gifted to me, I can purchase crowns for target dummies, furniture, statues, luxury vender items can be bought with carry gold etc. I've also used carry gold to get character slots purchased, race changes, etc.
You must admit that it easy to sell that gold to gold sellers if you so wished. Also easy enough to get people to pay through paypal or any other.
I am not suggesting you personally would but it is possible under the current system is it not?
If so is this something ZOS is happy with - especially when it is being advertised in Wayrest Zone over and over? Could this not compel someone to buy crowns to sell them for that? $$$ they may not have spent?
Yes, plus some of the carriers are, invariably, goldsellers themselves.
At least, that is the case in WoW and I see no logical reason to assume otherwise, here.
We know there are unauthorised sites that sell ESO gold.
So, no need for them to sell it to anyone in-game.
You really think an end game raider would risk their account for $500? Many of these people have phd's and well paying jobs. They don't play an extraordinary amount the just play smart and learn fast. They're not chinesse hackers and exploiters Looking for a quick buck. Most top tier raiders play less than
20 hours a week
One og the man reason for doing carry runs is to have the ressources to raid 4 times a week and not spend the same amount of time earning the gold to afford it.Most OwOrated healer of all time0 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭themaddaedra wrote: »Despite the fact OP is very overdramatic it's still a fact that people can buy carry runs for real money which is a little bit too much for my taste. Personally I never had issues with idea of carry runs I was always looking at it the way that when somebody is not great at gameplay part of the game but he/she is good at economy part of the game then his/her succes can come from that. Gifting which essentially is gold selling ruined that.
Also I think lately there is increased amount of runs that are carry ones vs regular runs. Game became easier so more people can complete certain achievements so there is lot of advertisements of carry runs in zone chats , way more then in the past and since now gold can be obtained way easier and even through real money many people simply preffer to bypass whole learning procces and decides to get everything instantly which in longer term may lower amount of fresh blood participating in trials. That is just loose talk though.
I hate myself for agreeing with you Juhas but yeah this is it. As someone who is actually selling lots of carries i do believe that this system is out of hand and indeed there are waaaaaay more carry runs than the actual raids at least in PC EU.
Doesn't really harm me, i do them and fill my bank with gold that i have no use of, but it's not a good taste of the game in the slightest.
As for anyone who still uses arguments like if you don't like it you ignore it well hello guys this is mmo and all of us are having a shared experience here. Thus that's not an argument even remotely.
Thank you for your honesty and insight.
Don't ever hate yourself for being honest.0 -
karthrag_inak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
It is always amusing to me to read these kinds of responses and realise that some people have no real ability to communicate in any other way but pure snarky teen angst.
LOL. this one agrees! This one wishes you the very best luck with Father Christmas! PC-NA : 19 Khajiit and 1 Fishy-cat with fluffy delusions0
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