Stratti wrote: »

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

Stratti wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Stratti wrote: »

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

Stratti wrote: »

idk wrote: »

People can pretty much trade anything in game. Gina has specifically said we can trade items from the crown store for gold. That is trading an in game item for an in game item.

To clarify, trading an in-game item for other in-game items is allowed; trading in-game items for real-world money or other out-of-game items is strictly prohibited.

A Crown Store item is considered an in-game item.

Zos also does not prohibit selling clears for gold but using the forums to drum up business is not permitted. This is not P2W as none of it makes anyone stronger. No aspect of it is P2W.

Also, I see you say nothing about Gina being in their Discord or even what that has to do with any of this.

BTW, I am sure some will thank you. The tend to use threads like these to find new customers.

He was using Zone chat to do it.

Also if you are running endgame trials , which they were offering at vet HM with titles and gear that would give a very significant advantage both in gear and be able to sneak into other trials using that title. Let's be clear this is P2W and seeing it advertised in Wayrest was too much.

Firstly, It's in no way p2w. Secondly, if you are worried that they have endgame gear they didn't "earn" guess what? If they couldn't nclear the content without a carry, they certainly won't be able to utilize the gear to it's full potential. Gear isn't and never has been the only factor to being good at ESO.

OMG Seriously

Can you pay for it

YES

Does it provide you an ingame win

YES

Why is it not pay to win?

Waiting patiently...

P2W has long been held as being able to buy something in the cash shop that would make you stronger than what can be obtained in game. Clearing content is an in game activity. As such it is obtainable in game and in fact only obtainable in game.

We have explained this already.

OK

So you clearly cannot understand what PAY MEANS

It is not restricted to the transaction in the cash store. In ESO you can buy Crowns with $$$$

THEN

USE CROWNS

TO BUY BUY BUY

GOLD

WITH THAT GOLD

YOU BUY

RUNS

THAT IS HOW YOU PAY TO WIN ======= (Sorry for Caps others, these kids are having trouble with multi-layered economic ideas)

By the way you are presenting yourself, I'd wager I'm close to double your age...

But that aside, there is nothing yet, that is pay to win. Once something is offered for crowns only that is more powerful than anything in game, and not giftable, that is pay to win.

The "not giftable" is the important part here, as you wouldn't be able to purchase it with earnable gold.

There is no vastly complicated economics at work here.

IF YOU CAN EARN IT IN GAME, IT'S NOT PAY TO WIN.

not sorry for the all-caps.

Honestly,

My frustration is how stupid people here are . Really , Really, Really completely and utterly stupid.

I can only surmise you are from America and therefore a product of your education.

If you can reach into your pocket and buy gold through selling crowns (something condoned by ZOS)

If you can then use that gold to BUY A RUN THEN IT IS PAY

IS IT AN ADVANTAGE

YES

.

My attitude is exasperation at the sheer stupidity that is present here in this forum. Absolute moronic intellects.

thank you so much for sharing...it's hard to find folks willing to speak the truth:

the educational system within the Americas is absolutely atrocious...

you wanna know what's really scary stratti?

just imagine how utterly stupid the average person is, now imagine that half of the people in the world are even stupider than that...

all you can do is pity and pray for 'em stratti...pity and prayer...

All the emo makes this one think this is more a case of "wallet envy".




Perhaps folks would take OP on carries too, even at a discount, if OP were a bit more pleasant.

I remember the good old days when carries were not advertised openly in zone chat, were spoken of in hushed whispers, and carried a lot more stigma than it does now.

I'm not sure what changed to normalize and de-stigmatize the practice. But it's unfortunate.

Selling player services is a slippery slope. What about someone who is paid to craft you gear or items that you can't craft? What if someone is asked to help you clear a dungeon--but without payment? The lines and boundaries between carries for gold and other activities are a lot thinner and blurrier than you think.

As I alluded to, in the past, this practice was tamped down by social factors: stigma. And this change in attitude is unfortunate, as I personally despise the very idea of a paid carry. I frown upon both the people who buy them and even more so the people in the endgame community who cheapen the notion of accomplishment by selling them. But I don't see how this is enforceable.

Also, if you want to make an argument about P2W, you're attacking the wrong link in the chain. You should be calling into question the sale of crowns for gold via the gifting system, since that is what you really have a problem with (actually, this feature is much more toxic for the trade guild bid system than it is for endgame PvE, and @Ixtyr who before he quit the game was a moderator of the ESO reddit and ran one of the prime trade guilds on PC/NA was a very vocal opponent of this for that reason).

Hardcore honest time here, and endgamers know this, there's no gear that's going to magically make a garbage player gain advantage over skilled players. There's just not. Standard Relequens gear is dumb easy to farm up, free. The perfected version adds a tiny bit of extra stamina to your pool, as an example. Perfected versions are just a nice bonus when you finally get the set farmed up, not going to make some theoretical child stealing his theoretical parents CC to theoretically sell crowns who's been playing for two weeks suddenly do 85k dps. Look at the recent thread with the leveled gear loadout dps tests. A skilled player is going to perform well.

Secondly, the players at the far end of endgame don't care about what titles, skins a player has. If they show up with a VHoF skin and can't heal or dps themselves out of wet paper bag, they're getting bumped from the team lol. Hey I got bumped from a team a few years ago, no hard feelings, I went and got better lol, and went on to surpass them actually. It happens.

I suspect you might be under the impression, as I once was, that the gear made the player. Other way around. It doesn't matter if someone buys their way to a set of Perfected False Gods, it really, really doesn't. If they show up in PFG and die to all the base norm mechanics, everyone will know in two seconds lol. If they show up in crafted blue gear and execute the mechanics pall correctly, that is what counts.

Look closely at other games with very obvious P2W systems, idk what they are, but I know they exist. It's directly buying with straight up dollars, items that couldn't be earned and gives an extreme and instant advantage regardless of skill.

Finally, it's generally uncool to go around reporting ppl for things you disagree with. Coming up on 6 years and I've yet never reported anyone in game. I've seen roleplayers who never do dungeons or trials buy a skin run for roleplay character purposes. Why would I care lol?

Stratti wrote: »

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

Stratti wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Stratti wrote: »

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

Stratti wrote: »

idk wrote: »

People can pretty much trade anything in game. Gina has specifically said we can trade items from the crown store for gold. That is trading an in game item for an in game item.

To clarify, trading an in-game item for other in-game items is allowed; trading in-game items for real-world money or other out-of-game items is strictly prohibited.

A Crown Store item is considered an in-game item.

Zos also does not prohibit selling clears for gold but using the forums to drum up business is not permitted. This is not P2W as none of it makes anyone stronger. No aspect of it is P2W.

Also, I see you say nothing about Gina being in their Discord or even what that has to do with any of this.

BTW, I am sure some will thank you. The tend to use threads like these to find new customers.

He was using Zone chat to do it.

Also if you are running endgame trials , which they were offering at vet HM with titles and gear that would give a very significant advantage both in gear and be able to sneak into other trials using that title. Let's be clear this is P2W and seeing it advertised in Wayrest was too much.

Firstly, It's in no way p2w. Secondly, if you are worried that they have endgame gear they didn't "earn" guess what? If they couldn't nclear the content without a carry, they certainly won't be able to utilize the gear to it's full potential. Gear isn't and never has been the only factor to being good at ESO.

OMG Seriously

Can you pay for it

YES

Does it provide you an ingame win

YES

Why is it not pay to win?

Waiting patiently...

P2W has long been held as being able to buy something in the cash shop that would make you stronger than what can be obtained in game. Clearing content is an in game activity. As such it is obtainable in game and in fact only obtainable in game.

We have explained this already.

OK

So you clearly cannot understand what PAY MEANS

It is not restricted to the transaction in the cash store. In ESO you can buy Crowns with $$$$

THEN

USE CROWNS

TO BUY BUY BUY

GOLD

WITH THAT GOLD

YOU BUY

RUNS

THAT IS HOW YOU PAY TO WIN ======= (Sorry for Caps others, these kids are having trouble with multi-layered economic ideas)

By the way you are presenting yourself, I'd wager I'm close to double your age...

But that aside, there is nothing yet, that is pay to win. Once something is offered for crowns only that is more powerful than anything in game, and not giftable, that is pay to win.

The "not giftable" is the important part here, as you wouldn't be able to purchase it with earnable gold.

There is no vastly complicated economics at work here.

IF YOU CAN EARN IT IN GAME, IT'S NOT PAY TO WIN.

not sorry for the all-caps.

Honestly,

My frustration is how stupid people here are . Really , Really, Really completely and utterly stupid.

I can only surmise you are from America and therefore a product of your education.

If you can reach into your pocket and buy gold through selling crowns (something condoned by ZOS)

If you can then use that gold to BUY A RUN THEN IT IS PAY

IS IT AN ADVANTAGE

YES

.

My attitude is exasperation at the sheer stupidity that is present here in this forum. Absolute moronic intellects.

Lmao! Well you've made my night! I needed a good laugh. I'd compare credentials and degrees with you, but suffice to say, my education is not exclusive to the States, and spans many years before the era of paying to pad scores to get into elite universities, which is a real life attempt at pay to win. But bravo at derailing your own thread!

It's ok to be wrong you know, and knowing when you're wrong is true wisdom. 😉

Heelie wrote: »

OneWhomWaits wrote: »

Imagine assuming every response is an American at a time of day when most Americans are sleeping.

Imagine getting called a kid at almost 21 😥

Imagine op telling you that you only play on the forums. You're obviously just forum trash with no in game experience whatsoever that could be relevant. /heavysarcasm

OneWhomWaits wrote: »

Heelie wrote: »

OneWhomWaits wrote: »

Imagine assuming every response is an American at a time of day when most Americans are sleeping.

Imagine getting called a kid at almost 21 😥

Imagine op telling you that you only play on the forums. You're obviously just forum trash with no in game experience whatsoever that could be relevant. /heavysarcasm

He's right though i mostly play on the forums these days 😂

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

Im sorry, but it feels like he is mad that people can trade gold for carries and that some of that may be bought with crowns, and thus indirectly real world money might be used to get a carry. And kids might steel a credit card number to buy crowns to do this?Am i getting this right? And this is zos fault?

Thats some serious mental gymnastics i gotta say.

He also doesn't want them to use their extra time they gained by getting the carry to buy crack and encourage gangbangers to shoot up the neighbourhood.

Since I doubt op will read my detailed explanation above:TLDR

The perfected versions of gear, which I assume is what they are so mad over, isn't going to give a terrible player any advantage nor make them suddenly fantastic.

Regular gear is stupid ez to farm, and as a bonus, the player may gain knowledge and gaming skill while farming it.

Look at the stats and the dps tests. Take a brand new player, say they buy runs for all the best gear, they're still going to be doing under 10k dps and dying to base mechanics.

Take an endgame raider, swap their Lok or Rels with perfected versions and their dps is not going to change much at all.

Juhasow wrote: »

Despite the fact OP is very overdramatic it's still a fact that people can buy carry runs for real money which is a little bit too much for my taste. Personally I never had issues with idea of carry runs I was always looking at it the way that when somebody is not great at gameplay part of the game but he/she is good at economy part of the game then his/her succes can come from that. Gifting which essentially is gold selling ruined that.

Also I think lately there is increased amount of runs that are carry ones vs regular runs. Game became easier so more people can complete certain achievements so there is lot of advertisements of carry runs in zone chats , way more then in the past and since now gold can be obtained way easier and even through real money many people simply preffer to bypass whole learning procces and decides to get everything instantly which in longer term may lower amount of fresh blood participating in trials. That is just loose talk though.

I hate myself for agreeing with you Juhas but yeah this is it. As someone who is actually selling lots of carries i do believe that this system is out of hand and indeed there are waaaaaay more carry runs than the actual raids at least in PC EU.

Doesn't really harm me, i do them and fill my bank with gold that i have no use of, but it's not a good taste of the game in the slightest.

As for anyone who still uses arguments like if you don't like it you ignore it well hello guys this is mmo and all of us are having a shared experience here. Thus that's not an argument even remotely.

Stratti wrote: »

So, on the NA server and this guy is spamming the zone chat in Wayrest peddling carries for 3mill a pop.

I messaged him and reported him both for spamming and for selling carries. He and I spoke and he said it was sanctioned by ZOS and not bannable. I

Is this the case?

So you are pay to win? $ to Crowns to Gold to Carry

This puts you worse than many other MMO and frankly I would like to know if this is indeed sanctioned by ZOS - I won't name the person as per forum rules. This is an important issue, given that a segment of the game will be likely to convert $$ to Gold for this.

The issue here is that you're implying that it inevitably is going to be turned into irl money which it could but also it could just be used to trade for Crowns or buy just about anything you want in-game. I always wonder who buys the pricey items I put on the guildstore and always figure it's someone who basically shets gold from selling carries. Those are the only ones who dgaf about how much they spend I presume.

I'm not saying the gold is not being traded for cash (done by carry-seller) or that the gold the carry buyer has didn't come from buying gold in the 1st place, I'm saying that you can't assume it's only being used for that.

ZOS has ways to deal with gold buying and they'll deal with it when necessary. I'll leave it to them to sanction when they see fit. The only ZOS sanctioned cash for carries is via the Crown trade and that way, they make money off of it so they're ok with it.

The only issue I have with gold carries is when good players feel like they have to resort to it because they can't find a spot in a good group. It can seem like some people that are part of the carry-selling groups may want to avoid new players because they don't want to give free carries.

I don't mind someone who doesn't care to invest into his own skills or who will never really have the chops to join a good group paying gold to get his skin.

In essence, I'm in favor of carries.

CleymenZero wrote: »

Stratti wrote: »

So, on the NA server and this guy is spamming the zone chat in Wayrest peddling carries for 3mill a pop.

I messaged him and reported him both for spamming and for selling carries. He and I spoke and he said it was sanctioned by ZOS and not bannable. I

Is this the case?

So you are pay to win? $ to Crowns to Gold to Carry

This puts you worse than many other MMO and frankly I would like to know if this is indeed sanctioned by ZOS - I won't name the person as per forum rules. This is an important issue, given that a segment of the game will be likely to convert $$ to Gold for this.

The issue here is that you're implying that it inevitably is going to be turned into irl money which it could but also it could just be used to trade for Crowns or buy just about anything you want in-game. I always wonder who buys the pricey items I put on the guildstore and always figure it's someone who basically shets gold from selling carries. Those are the only ones who dgaf about how much they spend I presume.

I'm not saying the gold is not being traded for cash (done by carry-seller) or that the gold the carry buyer has didn't come from buying gold in the 1st place, I'm saying that you can't assume it's only being used for that.

ZOS has ways to deal with gold buying and they'll deal with it when necessary. I'll leave it to them to sanction when they see fit. The only ZOS sanctioned cash for carries is via the Crown trade and that way, they make money off of it so they're ok with it.

The only issue I have with gold carries is when good players feel like they have to resort to it because they can't find a spot in a good group. It can seem like some people that are part of the carry-selling groups may want to avoid new players because they don't want to give free carries.

I don't mind someone who doesn't care to invest into his own skills or who will never really have the chops to join a good group paying gold to get his skin.

In essence, I'm in favor of carries.

Thank you for your post. Well thought out and constructive opinion.