Upcoming Patch Highlights & In-Progress Updates

vnlouis · April 2014

Kililin wrote: »

vnlouis wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

lolica_nebunueb17_ESO wrote: »

So many gold farmers qq about the boss timers now, its insane! Good job with that! No more 15 players autoattacking 24/7 on boss spawns and the people that qq, dont mind them, they just qq because their ability to grind thousands of hundreds of gold has been taken off them. Nice news!

You do realize that since the timer is global you won't be able to get credit if you go to another delve right? Are you really going to want to sit out of the game and not do delves until your timer is up? "Hey want to do a dungeon?" "I can't, I did a Delve 15m ago and have to wait for my timer to expire" no screw that. Global lockouts like that are terrible.

You do realize that Zenimax has quite a few people that know how to develop game systems and therefore wont make such an obvious mistake as preventing people from experiencing the content as its intended to be experienced in the first place. So all you whiners trying to say this change is bad for everyone are just grasping a straws. This change is a clever solution to a problem that is cause for multiple reasons that effectively combats all of them. Good job Zenimax, keep up the good work.

If they know how to design game systems, why does it happen in the first place?
Why should i believe that this fix is one?
In my opinion this timer will not solve anything, not farming, not botting.

How hard would it have been to predict that in open dugeons, with an easy boss that drops good loot, with a shared loot system and a short respawn timer, people would farm it? Especially if i design gold to be scarce and crafting materials too.

These same people, who could not predict this, come up with the glorious idea of lock out timers for single player content. The easiest solution maybe, but surely not the best, not even good.

Seems perfectly reasonable to me, no software in history has ever been released so perfect that it did not require some sort of tweaking post release. Its impossible to anticipate everything, people aren't robots that behave the way they are expected all of the time. Obviously they did not anticipate players standing around for hours killing the same mob over and over again for a chance a getting a blue item that they will out level in a day or so anyway.

There is no fix all solution to the bot/farming issue but this is at the very least a good step in the right direction, that will serve as deterrent and improve the overall gaming experience.

Kililin · April 2014

@vnlouis‌ this is not some kind of new software experiment for a multiplayer rpg, this kind of software exists for decades. And yes people went out of their way for loot since MUDs, with and without scripts. Doing the most mind numbingly things just to get something. In other mmorpgs for example, camping placeholder spawns with rare named spawns that rarely dropped the item you wanted, camping them for days on end.

So this is not some unexpected behavior, it should have been planned as a baseline of loot/cash generation. Like its the easiest thing you can do and it earns you X gold and Y items, everything else should have been balanced accordingly.

To think everyone just does the fun and exciting things in this kind of games is just ignoring the facts and history.

Corithna · April 2014

Jadeviper1974 wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Dungeon Treasure Chests – Based on feedback, we are changing treasure chests in instanced dungeons so that everyone gets a piece of loot regardless of who opens the chest. This change is currently being implemented and tested internally and will be released in a future patch as soon as it’s ready. Watch the patch notes for the news.

I am finding this one a bit confusing, maybe I am asking for to much detail to soon. By "everyone" does that mean everyone in an area near the boss, or everyone who gets a hit in on the boss, or everyone in my party?

Oh and btw, thanks for the update.

(edited for content)

This means specifically for the four man instanced dungeons, not for public dungeons. So each chest that is looted gives some credit to every player in that group. No other groups exist in that run. The only thing that might effect this is if a group member is not in the instance. That part was not addressed but would probably require presence in the instance for this to work. This has no effect on boss kills as they are not considered chests but mobs that already have their loot instanced for each player.

Corithna · April 2014

jb1b84 wrote: »

Ugh please tell me you mean something else when you say the bank fix will not be retroactive. That will pretty much kill this game for me

It means that the automated fixes will not be able to determine who has been effected by this bug and therefore will be unable to give credit the moment the patch with this fix goes live. They clearly state that they are investigating ways to be able to help those who have been effected by this bug. It will likely involve a session with customer service once a clearly defined procedure can be established for CSR's to follow. Less likely, but certainly possible would be some kind of blanket credit handed out to every player who might have been effected by this bug. Or it is also possible that an automated system might later be built to find confirmation evidence and grant credit based on those findings. It doesn't mean that they are not taking the problem seriously, nor does it mean that you should simply resign yourself to having lost the items or access in question. What it does mean is that the bug that caused the problem will be resolved to prevent even more players from suffering the same or similar issues.

vnlouis · April 2014

Kililin wrote: »

@vnlouis‌ this is not some kind of new software experiment for a multiplayer rpg, this kind of software exists for decades. And yes people went out of their way for loot since MUDs, with and without scripts. Doing the most mind numbingly things just to get something. In other mmorpgs for example, camping placeholder spawns with rare named spawns that rarely dropped the item you wanted, camping them for days on end.

So this is not some unexpected behavior, it should have been planned as a baseline of loot/cash generation. Like its the easiest thing you can do and it earns you X gold and Y items, everything else should have been balanced accordingly.

To think everyone just does the fun and exciting things in this kind of games is just ignoring the facts and history.

True it seems an obvious over-site now, maybe so much so that it suggests that it may have been a concern brought up during development or even during beta, its possible that they made a decision to adopt a wait and see approach before deciding how best to tackle the issue. Now that the know its definitely a problem and also a big one at that, they are making a concerted effort to come up with a solutions that tackles the problem from all angles.

I believe they are on the right track, i don't believe its the last update we will receive on this issue, this type of issue will require a few more iterations before they have maximized the solution. But at least they are reacting quickly the game isn't even a month old yet.

dynamite7673b14_ESO · April 2014

ChairGraveyard wrote: »

dynamite7673b14_ESO wrote: »

How about adjusting boss difficulty depending on how many people are in a dungeon. This would make it not insta-killed and give it the opportunity to kill bots.

THIS!

Exactly what I've been saying all along, and it addresses the *actual problem* rather than the symptom.

I would've just quoted yours and posted it but at work I tend to not read the entire thread. lol

dynamite7673b14_ESO · April 2014

bstecb14_ESO wrote: »

Ojustaboo wrote: »

You didn't need to nerf Doshia

Agreed!!! Doshia is HARD and that's GOOD! DEVS! Project managers! HEAR ME PLEASE! Don't give in to the whiners!

I beat Doshia, she kicked my butt over and over until I figured out how to do it. It was a CHALLENGE and it was IMMERSIVE and it was FUN!

Please please please accept customer feedback but don't give in to the whining without a special effort to understand where it's coming from first.

I love what you've created. I don't want to see it become another whiner's paradise of item hoarders.

If you give in to the whining... it can only lead to the dark side of MMO... boredom.

Strad
IMMERSE ME DAMMIT!

I beat Doshia every time I faced her including in beta. She was hard no doubt but not hard enough to nerf.

ArtemisAiden · April 2014

ghoxenrwb17_ESO wrote: »

ArtemisAiden wrote: »

@ghoxenrwb17_ESO‌

-snip-

TL;DR: Accusing people who farm legitimately (Not Botters or Cheaters) of being "Exploiters" is uncalled for and wrong!

I disagree. An exploit is basically utilising a feature unintended by the developers for a result the developers wish to avoid. Farming PD bosses for drop is one such case.
@ghoxenrwb17_ESO‌

How do we tell that the developers do not intend this? We have two pieces of evidences. First, the patch that adjusted respawn time of bosses based on when new players enter the PD, rather than how many players are in the PD at the time. This clearly shows that the devs do not want players to stay in a PD and camp the boss, and instead want the PD to be an experience for players who have not yet done the PD. Two, the upcoming patch that's adding a drop time shared across all PD bosses. Clearly, the devs don't want players to even travel between PDs and kill the bosses for loot.

We have established that the PD bosses being very farmable is not an intended feature of the developers.

Next, we also know that developers do not want the result - that is blues being extremely common and temper mats being extremely common. We have two pieces of evidences supporting this premise. First, temper items are shared across all levels of blues. This indicates that from a crafting perspective, low level blues should be as rare as VR blues. However, since low level bosses are very farmable the unintended result of temper mats flooding the market has occurred. Second, again the drop time reduces the amount of temper mats available from PD.

And so, we have also established that devs do not want temper mats and blues in general to be common as dirt.

Since we have established that farming PD for drop is a feature unintended by devs, for a result (flooding market with blues and tempers) that is unintended by the devs. Utilising this unintended feature for an unintended result for personal gain should be considered as an exploit.

Did you honestly feel nothing when you were waiting around 20 corpses of a boss; did you honestly think that was not wrong and perfectly legitimate and intended feature of the game?

To cite a similar precedent. There was a time in WoW when Lady Proudmoore dropped hundreds of gold, and so a raid group went there and camped her for a day, each member making thousands of gold (a huge amount at that time). They were all temporarily suspended for exploiting.

Since you did take the time to give a fairy though out an intelligent post I will respond (albeit a day late since I was in-game all evening yesterday). I do still respectfully disagree that "farming" at least in the sense that I am using it, which I will explain in excruciating detail in a moment as I think you are thinking I am doing something that I am not, is not in any way shape or form an exploit.

To start off when I say that I "farm" every PD boss I come to I mean that I will kill the boss, check my loot to see if I got the UNIQUE blue (this part is important), and if I did not I will wait for the boss to respawn and kill him again until I do.

Now that I have explained what I mean by farming, let go into why I do this. I do this for a couple of reasons. First that item I am farming is UNIQUE to that mob (IE The Pincher Dagger ONLY Drops off the Kwarma Overseer in Shadowfen), and it may be really good for me. I used the Pincher dagger for nearly 7 levels before I got something better. The second reason is that even if it is not something I can directly use I can generally break it down for crafting mats and, hopefully get a blue temper out of it so I can take that green item I got from a quest that is as good as the blue I am wearing and make it into a blue that legitimately better. Most of my set pieces are greens that have dropped that I have tempered to blue. The economics of this is difficult since it takes 5 tempers to have a 100% chance to upgrade an item (and only if you skilled into the improved tempering), and if you skilled into improving the breakdown of items then you only have a 50% chance to get a temper (based on testing so percentage may be off for acquiring tempers). Gear is part of the content.

My enjoyment comes from having a powerful hero (or anti-hero depending my mood) who roams the land laying waste to all evil that stands in my way (yes I am a nerd but that is established by the fact I am taking this long to write about a specific issue in a MMORPG). This form of farming is not an exploit. Your definition of an exploit is a bit off. Exploitation come for exploiting bugs. Even your precedent was a case of that (Yes I was around for that). The reason that mob dropped an absurd amount of gold was a typo in the loot table.

The type of farming I am talking about is the same as going into an instanced dungeon and running it over and over until I get that one specific piece of loot I need (I do this too, at least on my healer where it is fairly easy to get a group). What I am doing in no way exploits a bug, nor does it hurt the community since I am not selling the items. Now lets say I was to randomly come across a boss that ALWAYS drops a piece of blue gear. If I were to continually farm that boss then I would be exploiting since even in instanced dungeons you are not guaranteed loot from boss drops.

I do agree people doing this only to sell the items, known as "Gold Farmers" is a bit of a problem hence my earlier support of making the uniques Bind on Pickup. I also would not be against having to exit the dungeon and come back as that is only a minor inconvenience to someone who wants to collect the gear and leave while a MAJOR hindrance to someone trying to develop a bot. Also remember you can only farm bosses that are within your level range as once they go grey you get no loot anyways. The point here is not to say that Zeni should not tweak things in PDs, but they should try to find a solution that addresses the problem while not punishing players that just want to collect the right gear to support their characters. This is an MMO and there is a very large community of MMO players here. "Farming", as I have described it, is a major part of MMOs. This is one of those things that needs to be carefully balanced to support both the Elder Scrollsy-ness and MMO-ness of the game.

When you get to VR10 you will be doing nothing but farming, because that is what you do at max level. You may farm achievements, or gear, or go for gold cap but these are the things that keep you playing and therefore subbing. Once you go and repeat Craglorn quests, dungeons, or trials, every day or week trying to get that next piece of VR10 gear or complete that set bonus remember you are farming. And if you are only planning to experience the content once and not going to repeat the content what are you going to do when you chew through the content faster than Zeni can put it out? Believe me if you are not repeating content that WILL happen. Will you continue to sub when you have nothing to do? (Please excuse the Rhetoric nature of the last sentence, as I know it is bad form to use hyperbole or Rhetoric to prove a point but I could not think of a better way to express what I was trying to get across)

I know that I will continue to farm that "best" item for my spec or even farm up gear for a completely new spec. That means I will still be subbing along with all the other people who like the gear progression. Calling an entire group of players exploiters because we like to work for everything we get while following the rules as we understand them via experience and common sense (and at least for me reporting bugs when I see something that seems anomalous) is not really cool.

Now that I see I have written a novel about MMO Theory I will leave.

WAAAY TL;DR: Farming for your own gear in an MMO, when not using bugs in game code, is definitely not exploitation. I still feel there is a better way to address peoples PD concerns in a way that does not hinder people who like to farm their gear.

PS: I apologize for any typos in this but it is too long to proofread as I have spent more time at work writing this than I expected or probably should have done.

Left_Hand · April 2014

The problem is when said farming stops people from being able to complete their quests. A bunch of players instagibbing a PD boss i need for a quest, stopping me from completing it for days until i am lucky enough to do enough damage to tag it, is not what i would call a good gameplay environment.

Severyn · April 2014

Zeni just needs to go w/ the shared tag system. Something like WoW implemented for rares, where if you engage the boss after someone else has pulled it, the mobs HP increases and you will get credit for the kill and some loot. Problem solved.

Daendur · April 2014

Left_Hand wrote: »

The problem is when said farming stops people from being able to complete their quests. A bunch of players instagibbing a PD boss i need for a quest, stopping me from completing it for days until i am lucky enough to do enough damage to tag it, is not what i would call a good gameplay environment.

little tip: equip a restoration staff. cast grand healing. quest done.

ArtemisAiden · April 2014

@Left_Hand‌

Left_Hand wrote: »

The problem is when said farming stops people from being able to complete their quests. A bunch of players instagibbing a PD boss i need for a quest, stopping me from completing it for days until i am lucky enough to do enough damage to tag it, is not what i would call a good gameplay environment.

That is a non-issue. You don't have to do "enough" damage to get quest credit. You only have to tag it. I and many guildmates have done every PD boss I have come to and never had a problem getting quest credit. If it is super camped I have run into not getting loot credit for it but the quest credit is fairly good. If it is truly insta-gibbed then that is a bot problem not a farming problem. Only computer controlled characters would be able to sych attacks like that. Again I think the problem is needing to control the bots without harming legitimate players.

Edit: Typos

PVT_Parts · April 2014

vnlouis wrote: »

Kililin wrote: »

vnlouis wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

lolica_nebunueb17_ESO wrote: »

So many gold farmers qq about the boss timers now, its insane! Good job with that! No more 15 players autoattacking 24/7 on boss spawns and the people that qq, dont mind them, they just qq because their ability to grind thousands of hundreds of gold has been taken off them. Nice news!

You do realize that since the timer is global you won't be able to get credit if you go to another delve right? Are you really going to want to sit out of the game and not do delves until your timer is up? "Hey want to do a dungeon?" "I can't, I did a Delve 15m ago and have to wait for my timer to expire" no screw that. Global lockouts like that are terrible.

You do realize that Zenimax has quite a few people that know how to develop game systems and therefore wont make such an obvious mistake as preventing people from experiencing the content as its intended to be experienced in the first place. So all you whiners trying to say this change is bad for everyone are just grasping a straws. This change is a clever solution to a problem that is cause for multiple reasons that effectively combats all of them. Good job Zenimax, keep up the good work.

If they know how to design game systems, why does it happen in the first place?
Why should i believe that this fix is one?
In my opinion this timer will not solve anything, not farming, not botting.

How hard would it have been to predict that in open dugeons, with an easy boss that drops good loot, with a shared loot system and a short respawn timer, people would farm it? Especially if i design gold to be scarce and crafting materials too.

These same people, who could not predict this, come up with the glorious idea of lock out timers for single player content. The easiest solution maybe, but surely not the best, not even good.

Seems perfectly reasonable to me, no software in history has ever been released so perfect that it did not require some sort of tweaking post release. Its impossible to anticipate everything, people aren't robots that behave the way they are expected all of the time. Obviously they did not anticipate players standing around for hours killing the same mob over and over again for a chance a getting a blue item that they will out level in a day or so anyway.

There is no fix all solution to the bot/farming issue but this is at the very least a good step in the right direction, that will serve as deterrent and improve the overall gaming experience.

Why is everyone labeling this a botting/gold farming issue. It is not. I'm a farmer and we had a good laugh when the servers went back up when I told everyone you think they are bots. 90% of farmers are people who aren't even selling the drops, we are deconstructing them. Sure you can get 1000 gold by selling stuff in about 40m or so, but that just goes right back into the gold sink that is crafting and bag/bank expansion. We are real people, not gold farmers, maybe in low level dungeons this is not the case, it certainly wasn't in the first 5 days of release because I farmed a boss and invited everyone to a group, and all 12 of them accepted the invite. It certainly isn't an issue at the lvl 28 dungeons. I just finished farming the crap out of those. Now I'm moving on to the lvl 35 dungeons, I'm sure there won't be any botters there either. Maybe 1 in 10 is a bot, that isn't a problem that needs to be fixed because it will only hurt the 90% of us who are legitimately standing there fighting the boss.

psychounz · April 2014

PVT_Parts wrote: »

Maybe 1 in 10 is a bot, that isn't a problem that needs to be fixed because it will only hurt the 90% of us who are legitimately standing there fighting the boss.

It's still annoying to some people, though. There's no getting around that aspect, whether you're a legitimate player or not.

PVT_Parts · April 2014

ArtemisAiden wrote: »

@Left_Hand‌

Left_Hand wrote: »

The problem is when said farming stops people from being able to complete their quests. A bunch of players instagibbing a PD boss i need for a quest, stopping me from completing it for days until i am lucky enough to do enough damage to tag it, is not what i would call a good gameplay environment.

That is a non-issue. You don't have to do "enough" damage to get quest credit. You only have to tag it. I and many guildmates have done every PD boss I have come to and never had a problem getting quest credit. If it is super camped I have run into not getting loot credit for it but the quest credit is fairly good. If it is truly insta-gibbed then that is a bot problem not a farming problem. Only computer controlled characters would be able to sych attacks like that. Again I think the problem is needing to control the bots without harming legitimate players.

Edit: Typos

That's not entirely true either. Like me, most of us are pointed at the spawn pressing 222222222222222 really fast(a skill that only activates when an enemy is targeted. This means that everyone (5-10 people) uses a fairly powerful ability within the second that the boss spawns. Instagibbing, it's more like a 1-2 second life span of the boss, not really instant.

PVT_Parts · April 2014

Severyn wrote: »

Zeni just needs to go w/ the shared tag system. Something like WoW implemented for rares, where if you engage the boss after someone else has pulled it, the mobs HP increases and you will get credit for the kill and some loot. Problem solved.

It does work that way. Most of the time, 90% of the people get the loot drop.

vnlouis · April 2014

PVT_Parts wrote: »

vnlouis wrote: »

Kililin wrote: »

vnlouis wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

lolica_nebunueb17_ESO wrote: »

So many gold farmers qq about the boss timers now, its insane! Good job with that! No more 15 players autoattacking 24/7 on boss spawns and the people that qq, dont mind them, they just qq because their ability to grind thousands of hundreds of gold has been taken off them. Nice news!

You do realize that since the timer is global you won't be able to get credit if you go to another delve right? Are you really going to want to sit out of the game and not do delves until your timer is up? "Hey want to do a dungeon?" "I can't, I did a Delve 15m ago and have to wait for my timer to expire" no screw that. Global lockouts like that are terrible.

You do realize that Zenimax has quite a few people that know how to develop game systems and therefore wont make such an obvious mistake as preventing people from experiencing the content as its intended to be experienced in the first place. So all you whiners trying to say this change is bad for everyone are just grasping a straws. This change is a clever solution to a problem that is cause for multiple reasons that effectively combats all of them. Good job Zenimax, keep up the good work.

If they know how to design game systems, why does it happen in the first place?
Why should i believe that this fix is one?
In my opinion this timer will not solve anything, not farming, not botting.

How hard would it have been to predict that in open dugeons, with an easy boss that drops good loot, with a shared loot system and a short respawn timer, people would farm it? Especially if i design gold to be scarce and crafting materials too.

These same people, who could not predict this, come up with the glorious idea of lock out timers for single player content. The easiest solution maybe, but surely not the best, not even good.

Seems perfectly reasonable to me, no software in history has ever been released so perfect that it did not require some sort of tweaking post release. Its impossible to anticipate everything, people aren't robots that behave the way they are expected all of the time. Obviously they did not anticipate players standing around for hours killing the same mob over and over again for a chance a getting a blue item that they will out level in a day or so anyway.

There is no fix all solution to the bot/farming issue but this is at the very least a good step in the right direction, that will serve as deterrent and improve the overall gaming experience.

Why is everyone labeling this a botting/gold farming issue. It is not. I'm a farmer and we had a good laugh when the servers went back up when I told everyone you think they are bots. 90% of farmers are people who aren't even selling the drops, we are deconstructing them. Sure you can get 1000 gold by selling stuff in about 40m or so, but that just goes right back into the gold sink that is crafting and bag/bank expansion. We are real people, not gold farmers, maybe in low level dungeons this is not the case, it certainly wasn't in the first 5 days of release because I farmed a boss and invited everyone to a group, and all 12 of them accepted the invite. It certainly isn't an issue at the lvl 28 dungeons. I just finished farming the crap out of those. Now I'm moving on to the lvl 35 dungeons, I'm sure there won't be any botters there either. Maybe 1 in 10 is a bot, that isn't a problem that needs to be fixed because it will only hurt the 90% of us who are legitimately standing there fighting the boss.

Farming in general has a negative impact on the game. As long as it impacts the economy or affects the game play of other players it should be seen as a negative effect that requires fixing.

Smellyfed · April 2014

Great updates - looking forward to shared treasure chests. Now, please do something address PVP leveling.

ArtemisAiden · April 2014

vnlouis wrote: »

Farming in general has a negative impact on the game. As long as it impacts the economy or affects the game play of other players it should be seen as a negative effect that requires fixing.

This is completely and utterly wrong. If you don't want a game with people farming, which is required for a player economy to work, then go back and play a single player RPG or a multiplayer game without an economy. How do you think items get into the economy if people are not there to farm them. Any MMO that has a successful economy will always have people who farm items or materials to provide a backbone to that economy. Even in a single player game like Skyrim you farm materials if you do crafting. Its part of the game. The difference in MMOs is you have to compete with others to farm. You can't have a beautiful crafting system like ESO has and expect people not to farm materials to take advantage of using it. If you don't like or can't handle that then maybe MMOs are not your cup of tea. It's cool man these types of games are not for everyone.

DibzBiz · April 2014

So when is this patch coming with the charms or w/e main story.. Cause as of right now i have no main story listed on my vet 1 character.. soul magic is 5 instead of 6.. i got not credit for the main story complete in coldharbour.. so i can't get to vet 1 area.. i'm stuck as you wouldn't believe.. you say the patch is coming today? when? Cause game-breaking bugs are all kinds of ... alkdjfas;l Basically.. Not to mention if my main story is back but my soul magic doesn't update to credit the complete.. yeah i'll be posting a ticket.. So please allow me to progress again.. Don't let this happen again.. I feel for people who have been stopped in there tracks twice.. 1 guy couldn't progress for a WEEK!.. I understand why he quit.. I'm giving it till the end of this week.. please fix it.. i want you to succeed, i do, but i'm basically telling my friends to hold off on buying it.. cause if this game-breaking stuff keeps happening.. no no no no.. Waist of money.. I'm SOL if they don't fix this.. 80 bucks for game.. paid for 60 day game card.. website.. voice servers.. i'm such the angry rage monster if this isn't fixed.. Buddy of mine JUST both the game and then i get this bug.. Basically saying.. hold off on bringing the other guildies over from SWOTOR and WoW, etc.. Don't subscribe to anymore months.. Let them fix this.. This needs to be fix.. I mean shiiit.. I'm at the point where if it costs me money for them to fix it.. Man.. fix it.. fix it now please.. let me love you!!! Don't make me h8 you.. I mean.. thanks for the call last night.. and the chat.. Thanks for finally getting in touch with me after the 3rd ticket with multiple bugs.. But.. yeah.. Don't much like the smoke that was blown up my butt.. I just want a fix.. not call drops and then no callbacks that weren't helpful to begin with.. I've been having frustrating bugs since launch.. now a game-breaking bug.. 2 strike man.. i'm at 2 strikes.. fix this let me have smooth progression to vet 10.. pls.. let me love you.. pls.. happens again.. nvm me giving a week.. i'll give 3 days.. so tired of this.. i knoe 3 people this has happened with twice and not only that.. but had their entire bank LOST twice.. all that money.. all those items.. that is such a drag.. we are all long time players of elder scrolls.. paid for everything they have ever done.. all games, all dlc.. we are angry h8 monsters right now.. but we want to luv you.. but we h8 you right now.. got the mouse hovering over the unsub.. which if that happens.. bet your but refund message after that.. So pls.. don't wreck this experience and screw me out of money spent on website voice servers.. game, game card. etc.. please.. i was hoping this to be a multiple year experience.. this is how things head towards free to play.. thousands of people are quitting now.. certain zones are dead as *** at certain times of the day.. so i can only imagine.. prly 100k still playing out of the 5+ mill that sub'd for beta.. you've gotta be hurting.. stop the hurt.. help your selves by helping us.. don't make it so you have to start f2p.. and never go p2w or that is an instant quit.. for the love of the old gods and the new.. FIX IT!

vnlouis · April 2014

ArtemisAiden wrote: »

vnlouis wrote: »

Farming in general has a negative impact on the game. As long as it impacts the economy or affects the game play of other players it should be seen as a negative effect that requires fixing.

This is completely and utterly wrong. If you don't want a game with people farming, which is required for a player economy to work, then go back and play a single player RPG or a multiplayer game without an economy. How do you think items get into the economy if people are not there to farm them. Any MMO that has a successful economy will always have people who farm items or materials to provide a backbone to that economy. Even in a single player game like Skyrim you farm materials if you do crafting. Its part of the game. The difference in MMOs is you have to compete with others to farm. You can't have a beautiful crafting system like ESO has and expect people not to farm materials to take advantage of using it. If you don't like or can't handle that then maybe MMOs are not your cup of tea. It's cool man these types of games are not for everyone.

LOL, dude I've been playing MMO's for years this is definitely not my first. I said farming in general, not all farming there are other ways to farm that don't negatively affect the market or affect the game play of others. Farming public dungeon bosses is not one of those ways, though, therefore the incoming changes. Rest assured healthy farming will not be affected by this in fact it will greatly benefit those that actually put effort into farming runs because the value of items will increase.

burner2007b16_ESO · April 2014

/del

ragamerb16_ESO · April 2014

This is completely and utterly wrong. If you don't want a game with people farming, which is required for a player economy to work, then go back and play a single player RPG or a multiplayer game without an economy.

Sigh... Another gold farmer trying to explain himself. Ingame economy has nothing to do with farming a given Boss for a restricted set of items... As Gold Sellers, and players that actually sell their ingame gold to such sites, you are just looking for a fast way to earn gold... In fact, any game that bothers about economy has to control inflation... Which is exacly what ppl like you achieve by cheesing out the planned economical ways to interact with other players... Wanna participate in the economy? Gather materials, craft and sell to other players... The rest are just shortcuts based on exploits and abuses... Cry all you like, Devs are watching and changing... And they will keep on doing it. What I would like is that, after each of this adjustments, account banning immediatly follows so all this artificially pumped gold into the game vanishes.

I just can hope that all this resources invested into removing disruptive players from the game do not delay much the efforts needed to satisfy players interested into having a Real Economy up and running on ESO... Because on that deparment, I'm afraid, there is still a lot of work to do.

PVT_Parts · April 2014

ragamerb16_ESO wrote: »

This is completely and utterly wrong. If you don't want a game with people farming, which is required for a player economy to work, then go back and play a single player RPG or a multiplayer game without an economy.

Sigh... Another gold farmer trying to explain himself. Ingame economy has nothing to do with farming a given Boss for a restricted set of items... As Gold Sellers, and players that actually sell their ingame gold to such sites, you are just looking for a fast way to earn gold... In fact, any game that bothers about economy has to control inflation... Which is exacly what ppl like you achieve by cheesing out the planned economical ways to interact with other players... Wanna participate in the economy? Gather materials, craft and sell to other players... The rest are just shortcuts based on exploits and abuses... Cry all you like, Devs are watching and changing... And they will keep on doing it. What I would like is that, after each of this adjustments, account banning immediatly follows so all this artificially pumped gold into the game vanishes.

I just can hope that all this resources invested into removing disruptive players from the game do not delay much the efforts needed to satisfy players interested into having a Real Economy up and running on ESO... Because on that deparment, I'm afraid, there is still a lot of work to do.

I could care less about the economy. I solo. I don't sell things to anyone but the vendors, I deconstruct heavies and weapons for blacksmithing, but I don't sell the stuff. Most of us public dungeon farmers dont sell stuff to other players. We don't impact the economy much at all. If anything we balance out the ability to make blue stuff with the ability to find them in the world. Without farming the blues for blue tempers, how on earth do you think you could ever make blue items efficiently. I farm blues for hours and still only upgrade most of my armor to green.

Chirru · April 2014

Turelus wrote: »

Looking good other than the Public Dungeon bosses, that's a serious hit on people's ability to grind items/money.

addition.

All I get from this is that you are one of those camping bosses in dungeons to get loot to sell. I am sorry...but I feel no empathy toward you.

ChairGraveyard · April 2014

Left_Hand wrote: »

The problem is when said farming stops people from being able to complete their quests. A bunch of players instagibbing a PD boss i need for a quest, stopping me from completing it for days until i am lucky enough to do enough damage to tag it, is not what i would call a good gameplay environment.

Except a timer does nothing to fix this issue.

I agree that not getting credit is a problem, but putting a GLOBAL lockout timer on all PD bosses is the WORST POSSIBLE "FIX" imaginable.

Instead, the boss should simply scale up when large groups are present, so they no longer die in a split second, meaning everyone would get credit.

It would also bring back challenge to the fights when there are lots of players, and even reduce the amount of loot coming from boss farming in general.

If this is allowed to stand it will simply infect the rest of the game. Someone will inevitably complain that players are farming regular mobs, and of course they'll just slap another lazy, bandaid timer "fix" on it, which does nothing to fix the actual problem and merely (poorly) addresses the symptom.

Removing loot from the game, banning people that are legit players farming materials etc. are NOT solutions.

Mizar84 · April 2014

They should have just instanced the public dungeon like they did with the fighter/mage guild/main story ones and put a timer after killing the boss of 18-24 hours before re-entering the zone. Easy and solved.

selixjm_ESO · April 2014

Gods, I am so tired of hearing about this farm or no farm thing. I just want to know when I can get my missing gold and bank slots back. ><

Sacklunch · April 2014

when we do push the fix, it will not be retroactive. Know that we want to make this right for all impacted—we’re still exploring options to help those who have stored items/gold, and bank slots go missing.

So when you say not retroactive and exploring options does this mean I'm not getting my 15,000 gold back that I lost when this happened or.........

disticombeb17_ESO · April 2014

Again those whining players. If you can't get a loot\exp\achievement from dungeon boss - find a way to do it! Are you running to your mommy every time when you have any troubles in life? If you see a lot of players farming boss then just knockback or pull the boss when it appears and do your damage. What a big deal? I don't understand.