pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

Yes I agree, if its something like 5-10mins across all dungeons, thats kind of pointless. It'll barely deter the bots and just annoy the players. If its several hours/a day across all dungeons, that would be too much. Perhaps there's a middle ground.

And that is why timers are a BAD idea, short means it will inconvenience real players and have 0 impact on bots. long and it will ruin play experiences for everyone (and may still not impact bots). Even doing it on individual dungeons won't work, the drop rates are too low and are some of the only reliable sources of potential traits, upgrade materials, and soul gems. If they increased drop rates for even normal (white) loot with traits across mobs in the world and put the rates of upgrade materials spawning from refining crafting mats back to where they were pre-beta.18 (substantially higher). Then I could see medium length timers on individual dungeons not impacting real players.

Scaling is probably the best solution, or manipulation of instancing so that instances are filled at a lower density and new players are added to instances where other players have been in that instance for a short period of time (basically, fewer players per dungeon instance and if other players have been in an instance for a long period of time, regardless of real or bots, new players are not placed in those instances)

Also manually farming is a legitimate part of playing ESO, as stated by.... ZOS_JessicaFolsom. So people need to accept it as a reality and look for solutions instead of demanding bans, and defaming players on the forums(which is against forum rules). There have been plenty of people who have at least tried to suggest methods that will fix the issue for all players, but too many people simply demand that the ability to farm be eliminated from the game, which will hurt this game. It is an optional part of every MMO in one form or another and many people choose to do it in line with company rules at their leisure and its presence is desirable for many potential consumers (who are needed for this games continuation and growth).

TL;DR Timers are bad. Farming is legitimate, so only make suggestions that help everyone in the community.

norrisnick wrote: »

ghoxenrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Nothing is preventing you from tackling those dungeons together. The absence of loot does not prevent you from killing the boss, looting chests, or receiving credit and achievement.

What's the point of playing an RPG if you don't get loot?

You miss the point, you can get loot without farming for loot

I'll state again that IMO the best way to thwart gold spammers and maintain the economy and value of crafted items is to instance the bosses:
Come to the end of the dungeon, kill the boss, popped out into another instance where the boss has been killed. and that's it. you get whatever loot you got from that boss, time to move on and ACTUALLY PLAY THE GAME.

norrisnick wrote: »

ghoxenrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Nothing is preventing you from tackling those dungeons together. The absence of loot does not prevent you from killing the boss, looting chests, or receiving credit and achievement.

What's the point of playing an RPG if you don't get loot?

R-ole
P-laying
G-ame

What about having fun?

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Public Dungeon & Delve Boss Monsters – Also based on feedback, we will be placing a timer on how often you can get loot from public dungeon and delve boss monsters. This timer is shared across all boss monsters in public dungeons and delves. This will not impact loot timers for quest-specific monsters or overworld group bosses. Watch the patch notes for news on when this change will go live.

This was a much needed change. For lower level dungeons, it was mostly harmless, but this was a silly easy way to get money without trying. Depending on the timer, this will still make it viable, while still allowing room for alternative methods. I was really getting sick of walking into a dungeon to see a dozen players sitting on top of a boss that lives for half a second. It's stupid and broken and I'm glad that it's being looked at.

Good change on how to keep ppl informed periodically... I would like to see this as a frequent feature instead of a one time action. Transparency to your players is the key to retain custommers.

The change on Dungeon Chests is something very welcome but... A warning, BE SURE you revise the topology of EACH dungeon so NO chest can be accessed without having to fight (at least until the teleporting bots vulnerability is fixed)... Or this group-wide sharing can be easily exploited (I still haven't checked if the dungeons have somekind of reset timer per player).

Cheapea'u! on the timer on Delves/Public Dungeon Bosses loot... I was afraid that a delay on spawn timers would be the easy and dirt solution that would harm genuine players seeking the credit kill... Farmers should use the planned ways to earn money, not going around harming ppl just wanting to enjoy the lore and doing some casual exploration. If there are some of this bosses with special loot (That some ppl want to gather for whatever reasson)... I would advice to increase the chance to get them and turn all items into bound and unique similarly as how most Outworld Bosses are handled now.

Also, not specially noted, but been EU based I already played after the maintenance... Congrats in the squashing of the 2nd wave of bots/farmers... Keep up the good work and don't forget to advertise it each time... This is going to be a long war fought in frequent skirmishes, be sure you keep your legit playerbase motivated and informed on the progress.

So many gold farmers qq about the boss timers now, its insane! Good job with that! No more 15 players autoattacking 24/7 on boss spawns and the people that qq, dont mind them, they just qq because their ability to grind thousands of hundreds of gold has been taken off them. Nice news!

I liked the ability to stay and kill a dungeon boss 5 or 6 times to make sure I got the one good piece of loot he drops. It's also a nice little xp boost. The questing xp sucks - it seems I'm always ending a zone underleveled unless I do some grinding or a dungeon, and I don't really like doing instanced dungeons if I don't have a lot of time on my hands.

If you nerf end boss kills, please address questing xp balance so that we don't HAVE to farm.

For people who like to quest first and then go through and tackle the dungeon this is gonna be a slap in the face to them. Maybe i'm jumping the gun and it depends on what the timer is.. but i know i like to go from dungeon to dungeon when im done with a zone and finish those up. it's gonna suck not getting loot from them.

Fix the Motes of Moonlight quest, for the love of god, it is preventing many, many people from progressing. Just send a GM in-game to the quest location on the EU server and see for yourself...

ragamerb16_ESO wrote: »

I liked the ability to stay and kill a dungeon boss 5 or 6 times to make sure I got the one good piece of loot he drops. It's also a nice little xp boost. The questing xp sucks - it seems I'm always ending a zone underleveled unless I do some grinding or a dungeon, and I don't really like doing instanced dungeons if I don't have a lot of time on my hands.

If you are underlevel for the zone... You are doing something wrong. There are plenty of suplementary quests to do... So far at 45 (Ebonhart) and always completed as much of the previous zone, never farmed XP nor do frequent PvP, and I always ended around 2 levels higher than the initial mobs of the next zone... I have done an effort on doing all Party Dungeons once and most Public challenges/Anchors/Dungeons (And collected all skyshards)... So I find natural to slightly outlevel strict solo PvE content.

So if you are systematically underlevel, you are systematically ignoring multiple sources of PvE XP (Or your faction is suffering from a systematic lack of PvE XP... Which is always a possibility, rare but possible... Don't have an alt on the other 2 factions to comment 1st hand).

My main is Daggerfall and there is just as much PVE. Never farmed (Aside from doing some anchors a few times) or had a problem with being under-leveled.

Brank wrote: »

You miss the point, you can get loot without farming for loot

I'll state again that IMO the best way to thwart gold spammers and maintain the economy and value of crafted items is to instance the bosses:
Come to the end of the dungeon, kill the boss, popped out into another instance where the boss has been killed. and that's it. you get whatever loot you got from that boss, time to move on and ACTUALLY PLAY THE GAME.

Not the dropped loot. It can be a complete crap item, but to deny that getting special things from bosses is a draw and pivotal part of RPGs is awfully shortsighted. Why earn a nice sword or bit of armor through battle if you can make one or buy one? Um... because it's fun?

And phasing everything isn't really a solution either. What's the point of playing an online game if the bosses/battles are always instanced? Playing with others is kind of the point of these games, no?

Make the loot unique and bound on pick up. That's a fix that will severely hamper bots as they'd have to leave and melt it after every drop.

Brank wrote: »

Why don't you ask the developers to put a boss in town, so you could farm and cut down your travel time?

A Great Idea!.. they could put a set of non interactive practice dummies in a closed room in town (call it the Fight Club or something).. you just stand in there, pic a dummy and beat up on it a short while (for an arbitrary amount of xp) then get some loot. A short 30 second timer to simulate respawns, rinse repeat ad infinitum!

That should solve the problem.. it'll give players who want to explore, and have a sense of immersion or adventure a break from the farmers, and it'll give the farmers something they enjoy!

Sounds like a winner to me!

People need to realize that scaling the boss to the number of players isn't an "easy fix." A lot needs to be done to implement a system like that. A lot of code needs to be written and a lot of internal testing needs to be done. If they started working on it today, we wouldn't see it in game for months.

The driving force of RPGs has always been the quest for new shiny loot.

I'm afraid that you have the term RPG wrong... Starting by the media, RPGs were been played before computers weren't a rare sight...

...There are faaaar more RPGs than D&D (Heck! Even the most hardcore hack'n slash groups on D&D appreciate the difference between a good story and a bad one... You just need to be fast before they fall asleep ).

And returning to comps... Diablo & WoW weren't RPGs... Farming Loot has been mixed by companies with the term RPG because it "sells better" than... "Attention Citizens!!! Come and get your new Loot Grinder Diablo XVI... New items that allow you to loot newly colored better items... See for yourself the amazing breakthrough we bring this time... Orange is better than Yellow... Fill your life with Orange ... Preorder! Preorder!! Preeeeeeorderrrrrr!!!"... please" .

...But believe it or not Role Playing is rewarding and it doesn't have anything to do with a bunch of pixels with some math stats on them.

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

Buppas wrote: »

Timers on bosses - this isn't even a bandaid on a fleshwound, it's sprinkling unicorn farting dusts on a infected fleshwound. This dosn't solve any issue at all, and here's why:
Bots: Will not care about a timer, they will still stand there and farm the bosses repeatedly, The thing with bots is that they are automated, so it dosnt matter if it takes 1min or 30min for them to get loot again.

No, because hopefully ZOS will have the sense to make the timer several hours or a day long, for both loot and xp. Not a few minutes as most people seem to be imagining. Bots will not employ resources in an area where they get no gain all day.

You do realize that this timer affects all dungeons and delves...everywhere in every zone right. Are you (as a normal explorer) really going to take a complete break from every single dungeon in the game because you've already done your one for the day? I really hope ZOS doesn't take you up on your suggestion.