overland is to easy

martinhpb16_ESO · November 2019

myskyrim26 wrote: »

This is a TES game. Any overland content MUST be easy to explore. You want something hard? Go do your arenas, vet dungeons, tirals and PVP. No enough hard? Go do vet dungeons solo. Go do trials solo.

I remember Skyrim. It wasnt all easy.

Do vet dungeons solo?

This thread is about people wanting some challenging overland content.

Why do people insist it all has to be easy? There is so much of it available,every dlc and expansion.

Why are you so opposed to the game catering for people who DO like some challenge with their questing?

They actually do exist you know

martinhpb16_ESO · November 2019

FierceSam wrote: »

There’s a reason ZOS provide top level content. It’s to keep top players interested (for a relatively short period), but more importantly it’s to provide the vast majority of players with something to aim for. And most of them will never get there, but they will enjoy their journey as they try.

Top level content is not accessible and is mainly locked behind groups, apart from some arenas

Therefore there is nothing available for people who want exploration or story with a challenge.

How woudl you feel if every update was only challenging content? Woudl you say "hey this inst fair i dont like all the updates there is nothing for me" ?

Get it? thats how it is for people who do like a challenge with quests

We could easily say that all dungeons and trials should only be at vet level. but that would be wrong because it would exclude people who just want to do it normal.

Overland is not interesting for people who like a challenge which is out of kilter with the rest of the game

Contaminate · November 2019

El_Borracho wrote: »

The last thing I want is the overland content to be more of a grind when I am grinding alternate characters. I'm sure others have said this, but you have the ability to make it harder all by yourself. Remove all CP. Wear all white non-set armor and weapons.

A naked toon with no skills, no weapons, no armor, and no cp applied, is under no threat from an “Elite” mob.

You can see the screenshots right here. This is terrible game design.

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

haelene wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Spoiler Alert!

Overland is supposed to be easy. It's there to get beginners hooked and satisfy a large casual playerbase. It may be easy for you, but do try to understand that there are many, MANY players who struggle in overland content. That content is not designed for you. Play it if you want, but understand that it is not there to challenge you. That's what endgame is for.

so its fine for a level 10 to be farming mobs in craglorn?
it has no feel of progression if anyone can go anywhere

Yep, it's absolutely fine. Also, I want a video. Better not be any cp or set bonuses either, because most real level 10's don't have that.

I don't have a video, but I had one nice screenshot from one of such discussions, where elite mob was unable to kill my CP810 without CP (so no low level bonuses), without gear and without abilities slotted. Enjoy: 9k HP, 0 resistances, 500 dps. Giant, creature that will one-shot level 10 character in Skyrim on default difficulty, couldn't do anything to completely naked un-buffed toon in ESO. Giant dps was 150 against zero resistances, zero CP. (8744 is minimal health possible, if I had CP allocated that number will be higher).

FierceSam · November 2019

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

bmnoble wrote: »

Overland is easy because its not about the combat its about the quests/exploration, I hate to break it to you but not everyone enjoys the combat in games and would rather just get it over with as quick as possible and get back to what they were doing.

Then why is there combat? I hate it to break it to you but some people do enjoy combat in games and would rather not get through it quickly and instead would like to feel a sense of adventure and achievement that justifies the story they are reading.

.

Except that ‘story combat’ has a very different purpose than, say, dungeon combat or PvP combat.

‘Story combat’ is there as a speed bump in the questline, not as a roadblock. It has no intention of allowing you to fail. Even so, some players do fail. And ZOS have decided that this is a worse outcome than some players finding the content too easy. So they try to tailor overland questing content to the less skilled players.

I don’t think the 2 levels of difficulty thing will work either because I don’t know a single player who would accept having just half the content for each zone simply so a minority of players could do overland HM.

idk · November 2019

Nestor wrote: »

I agree, Overland is easy content.

Then I watch a large proportion of other players spend minutes fighting overland mobs.

Then I go find a Trial or Vet Dungeon to work up a sweat.

This is pretty much it. And explains why overland is as easy as it is.

Dusk_Coven · November 2019

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

There’s a reason ZOS provide top level content. It’s to keep top players interested (for a relatively short period), but more importantly it’s to provide the vast majority of players with something to aim for. And most of them will never get there, but they will enjoy their journey as they try.

Top level content is not accessible and is mainly locked behind groups, apart from some arenas

You can enter group content with less than a full group. So it's not "locked behind groups" except sometimes by mechanics (like AA where you have to have a full team to stand on all the pads to progress). And those mechanics are rare compared to what's available.

Just to see what it was like I soloed the initial fabricant mob in nHOF. Doable but gawd it was long and boring. It's basically grinding.
Wanting harder overland is just heading in the direction of grind.
You want to know what hard overland is like? Go play NWO. You have level-progressed zones and hard overland and tough delves. Which makes the game also basically 100% grinding. Thank God ESO isn't like that at all. You can actually get things done, especially in seeing the story unfold.

haelene · November 2019

Contaminate wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

The last thing I want is the overland content to be more of a grind when I am grinding alternate characters. I'm sure others have said this, but you have the ability to make it harder all by yourself. Remove all CP. Wear all white non-set armor and weapons.

A naked toon with no skills, no weapons, no armor, and no cp applied, is under no threat from an “Elite” mob.

You can see the screenshots right here. This is terrible game design.

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

haelene wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Spoiler Alert!

Overland is supposed to be easy. It's there to get beginners hooked and satisfy a large casual playerbase. It may be easy for you, but do try to understand that there are many, MANY players who struggle in overland content. That content is not designed for you. Play it if you want, but understand that it is not there to challenge you. That's what endgame is for.

so its fine for a level 10 to be farming mobs in craglorn?
it has no feel of progression if anyone can go anywhere

Yep, it's absolutely fine. Also, I want a video. Better not be any cp or set bonuses either, because most real level 10's don't have that.

I don't have a video, but I had one nice screenshot from one of such discussions, where elite mob was unable to kill my CP810 without CP (so no low level bonuses), without gear and without abilities slotted. Enjoy: 9k HP, 0 resistances, 500 dps. Giant, creature that will one-shot level 10 character in Skyrim on default difficulty, couldn't do anything to completely naked un-buffed toon in ESO. Giant dps was 150 against zero resistances, zero CP. (8744 is minimal health possible, if I had CP allocated that number will be higher).

And you can also see from those screenshots that it took them 4 minutes to fight one single mob. Overland is absolutely brimming with mobs. Imagine how absolutely tedious questing would be on a toon that takes 4 minutes per mob.

Also - elite means nothing except that they can't be crowd controlled. It says nothing about the difficulty of the mob - unless of course you were attempting to conflate this one giant with a world boss (which belong to a group called elite spawns). But of course you weren't. That would be, well, dishonest.

Jeremy · November 2019

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

i like hard content.

its why i like progging trials. if its too easy it feels like grinding. and overland...

why can a lvl 10 easily do overland in craglorn?
why is a mighty deaedroth helpless against a player with broken gear and no weapon?

ok the alliance part of one tamriel was good. but the overland is so easy now its just...

i know this is a very old point... but can we make the regons scale to player level? a minimum of lets say 50 for craglorn, and then scales with the player from that point.

also bonus xp for those in that level margin? this would make questing alot more efficient to level with.

because right now, its just boring.

Yeah, I agree. As a "casual" player myself, it is still too easy.

They need to add a veteran version of each overland zone so players who want a bit of challenge while they quest can get one. They already do this with dungeons. So long as they over-do it, should work out fine that way.

Jeremy · November 2019

haelene wrote: »

Contaminate wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

The last thing I want is the overland content to be more of a grind when I am grinding alternate characters. I'm sure others have said this, but you have the ability to make it harder all by yourself. Remove all CP. Wear all white non-set armor and weapons.

A naked toon with no skills, no weapons, no armor, and no cp applied, is under no threat from an “Elite” mob.

You can see the screenshots right here. This is terrible game design.

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

haelene wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Spoiler Alert!

Overland is supposed to be easy. It's there to get beginners hooked and satisfy a large casual playerbase. It may be easy for you, but do try to understand that there are many, MANY players who struggle in overland content. That content is not designed for you. Play it if you want, but understand that it is not there to challenge you. That's what endgame is for.

so its fine for a level 10 to be farming mobs in craglorn?
it has no feel of progression if anyone can go anywhere

Yep, it's absolutely fine. Also, I want a video. Better not be any cp or set bonuses either, because most real level 10's don't have that.

I don't have a video, but I had one nice screenshot from one of such discussions, where elite mob was unable to kill my CP810 without CP (so no low level bonuses), without gear and without abilities slotted. Enjoy: 9k HP, 0 resistances, 500 dps. Giant, creature that will one-shot level 10 character in Skyrim on default difficulty, couldn't do anything to completely naked un-buffed toon in ESO. Giant dps was 150 against zero resistances, zero CP. (8744 is minimal health possible, if I had CP allocated that number will be higher).

And you can also see from those screenshots that it took them 4 minutes to fight one single mob. Overland is absolutely brimming with mobs. Imagine how absolutely tedious questing would be on a toon that takes 4 minutes per mob.

Also - elite means nothing except that they can't be crowd controlled. It says nothing about the difficulty of the mob - unless of course you were attempting to conflate this one giant with a world boss (which belong to a group called elite spawns). But of course you weren't. That would be, well, dishonest.

They don't have to take 4 minutes to not take a second or two.

Just give them enough health and offense to where they actually require you to react and use different strategies. That would go a long way to making it more interesting and fun. Because what we have now is actually what can get tedious. That's why a lot of players I see just don't even bother and just run through everything. It's like fighting ants.

Ozby · November 2019

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

i like hard content.

its why i like progging trials. if its too easy it feels like grinding. and overland...

why can a lvl 10 easily do overland in craglorn?
why is a mighty deaedroth helpless against a player with broken gear and no weapon?

ok the alliance part of one tamriel was good. but the overland is so easy now its just...

i know this is a very old point... but can we make the regons scale to player level? a minimum of lets say 50 for craglorn, and then scales with the player from that point.

also bonus xp for those in that level margin? this would make questing alot more efficient to level with.

because right now, its just boring.

Overland is for beginners, if they make it harder imagine what will happen to level 3 new players with no cp. Stop being so selfish.

karthrag_inak · November 2019

Overland is to easy...
as Grammar is to Essential-to-not-look-like-a-moron.

Jeremy · November 2019

Ozby wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

i like hard content.

its why i like progging trials. if its too easy it feels like grinding. and overland...

why can a lvl 10 easily do overland in craglorn?
why is a mighty deaedroth helpless against a player with broken gear and no weapon?

ok the alliance part of one tamriel was good. but the overland is so easy now its just...

i know this is a very old point... but can we make the regons scale to player level? a minimum of lets say 50 for craglorn, and then scales with the player from that point.

also bonus xp for those in that level margin? this would make questing alot more efficient to level with.

because right now, its just boring.

Overland is for beginners, if they make it harder imagine what will happen to level 3 new players with no cp. Stop being so selfish.

Overland needs to be for all players. Not just "beginners" (though I know many beginners who find it too easy as well).

Tiff_ar15 · November 2019

I'm sorry if I'm echoing what others have said but no level 10 newb player is soloing Craglorn portals or world bosses...lmao. MAYBE trash mobs but isn't what they are any way, trash (but I even find that hard to believe)? If what you're saying is true, please show us video.. otherwise... shenanigans.

Jeremy · November 2019

Tiff_ar15 wrote: »

I'm sorry if I'm echoing what others have said but no level 10 newb player is soloing Craglorn portals or world bosses...lmao. MAYBE trash mobs but isn't what they are any way, trash (but I even find that hard to believe)? If what you're saying is true, please show us video.. otherwise... shenanigans.

If you have to bring up that level 10 newbs can't mow through World Bosses though to try and show how the overland isn't too easy you are sort of making the other guy's argument for him. Because when World Bosses are the only thing on the map that provides challenge for a a level 10 newb, then you know there's definitely a problem.

When mobs are so inconsequential they are referred to as "trash" anyway, that right there highlights the issue. The overland needs to have monsters that actually pose a risk - not a bunch of "trash" with a few significant fights scattered around on the side called World Bosses.

Anyron · November 2019

redspecter23 wrote: »

Spoiler Alert!

Overland is supposed to be easy. It's there to get beginners hooked and satisfy a large casual playerbase. It may be easy for you, but do try to understand that there are many, MANY players who struggle in overland content. That content is not designed for you. Play it if you want, but understand that it is not there to challenge you. That's what endgame is for.

you can done overland without gear and only spamming light attacks.

Contaminate · November 2019

haelene wrote: »

Contaminate wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

The last thing I want is the overland content to be more of a grind when I am grinding alternate characters. I'm sure others have said this, but you have the ability to make it harder all by yourself. Remove all CP. Wear all white non-set armor and weapons.

A naked toon with no skills, no weapons, no armor, and no cp applied, is under no threat from an “Elite” mob.

You can see the screenshots right here. This is terrible game design.

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

haelene wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Spoiler Alert!

Overland is supposed to be easy. It's there to get beginners hooked and satisfy a large casual playerbase. It may be easy for you, but do try to understand that there are many, MANY players who struggle in overland content. That content is not designed for you. Play it if you want, but understand that it is not there to challenge you. That's what endgame is for.

so its fine for a level 10 to be farming mobs in craglorn?
it has no feel of progression if anyone can go anywhere

Yep, it's absolutely fine. Also, I want a video. Better not be any cp or set bonuses either, because most real level 10's don't have that.

I don't have a video, but I had one nice screenshot from one of such discussions, where elite mob was unable to kill my CP810 without CP (so no low level bonuses), without gear and without abilities slotted. Enjoy: 9k HP, 0 resistances, 500 dps. Giant, creature that will one-shot level 10 character in Skyrim on default difficulty, couldn't do anything to completely naked un-buffed toon in ESO. Giant dps was 150 against zero resistances, zero CP. (8744 is minimal health possible, if I had CP allocated that number will be higher).

And you can also see from those screenshots that it took them 4 minutes to fight one single mob. Overland is absolutely brimming with mobs. Imagine how absolutely tedious questing would be on a toon that takes 4 minutes per mob.

Also - elite means nothing except that they can't be crowd controlled. It says nothing about the difficulty of the mob - unless of course you were attempting to conflate this one giant with a world boss (which belong to a group called elite spawns). But of course you weren't. That would be, well, dishonest.

There is literally a combat hint that pops up the first time you encounter an Elite enemy that tells you they are (supposedly) more dangerous than a typical mob.

Regardless, a player who uses no armor, no skills, has no resists, who’s only tactical action is light attacking and moving out of AoE, should not be able to kill something the game itself has deemed a “threatening” enemy.

haelene · November 2019

Contaminate wrote: »

haelene wrote: »

Contaminate wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

The last thing I want is the overland content to be more of a grind when I am grinding alternate characters. I'm sure others have said this, but you have the ability to make it harder all by yourself. Remove all CP. Wear all white non-set armor and weapons.

A naked toon with no skills, no weapons, no armor, and no cp applied, is under no threat from an “Elite” mob.

You can see the screenshots right here. This is terrible game design.

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

haelene wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Spoiler Alert!

Overland is supposed to be easy. It's there to get beginners hooked and satisfy a large casual playerbase. It may be easy for you, but do try to understand that there are many, MANY players who struggle in overland content. That content is not designed for you. Play it if you want, but understand that it is not there to challenge you. That's what endgame is for.

so its fine for a level 10 to be farming mobs in craglorn?
it has no feel of progression if anyone can go anywhere

Yep, it's absolutely fine. Also, I want a video. Better not be any cp or set bonuses either, because most real level 10's don't have that.

I don't have a video, but I had one nice screenshot from one of such discussions, where elite mob was unable to kill my CP810 without CP (so no low level bonuses), without gear and without abilities slotted. Enjoy: 9k HP, 0 resistances, 500 dps. Giant, creature that will one-shot level 10 character in Skyrim on default difficulty, couldn't do anything to completely naked un-buffed toon in ESO. Giant dps was 150 against zero resistances, zero CP. (8744 is minimal health possible, if I had CP allocated that number will be higher).

And you can also see from those screenshots that it took them 4 minutes to fight one single mob. Overland is absolutely brimming with mobs. Imagine how absolutely tedious questing would be on a toon that takes 4 minutes per mob.

Also - elite means nothing except that they can't be crowd controlled. It says nothing about the difficulty of the mob - unless of course you were attempting to conflate this one giant with a world boss (which belong to a group called elite spawns). But of course you weren't. That would be, well, dishonest.

There is literally a combat hint that pops up the first time you encounter an Elite enemy that tells you they are (supposedly) more dangerous than a typical mob.

Regardless, a player who uses no armor, no skills, has no resists, who’s only tactical action is light attacking and moving out of AoE, should not be able to kill something the game itself has deemed a “threatening” enemy.

Why not?

Araneae6537 · November 2019

Some of you totally don’t know how it is for new players, still adapting to the controls and figuring out how things work. The Elsweyr tutorial was helpful but it was a looong time before I learned that heavy attacks restored resources. I started the game in July — first time I used keyboard for abilities rather than clicking on the with the mouse (which I hated that I did in other games but relearning always felt the greater evil). I remember going my early delves, approaching groups of more than two enemies with caution and dying so much and not approaching a delve boss without food and ideally not alone!

Many people will start off better but I’m sure many also start off worse. Now normal overland content (is, not WBs or dragons) is easy for me too but I don’t want that it should be a pain if I’m just collecting resources, skyshards, etc. Sometimes I want to just chill and explore. There are still plenty of challenges when I want them (trials, vet dungeons, PvP, etc.)

Contaminate · November 2019

haelene wrote: »

Contaminate wrote: »

haelene wrote: »

Contaminate wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

The last thing I want is the overland content to be more of a grind when I am grinding alternate characters. I'm sure others have said this, but you have the ability to make it harder all by yourself. Remove all CP. Wear all white non-set armor and weapons.

A naked toon with no skills, no weapons, no armor, and no cp applied, is under no threat from an “Elite” mob.

You can see the screenshots right here. This is terrible game design.

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

haelene wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Spoiler Alert!

Overland is supposed to be easy. It's there to get beginners hooked and satisfy a large casual playerbase. It may be easy for you, but do try to understand that there are many, MANY players who struggle in overland content. That content is not designed for you. Play it if you want, but understand that it is not there to challenge you. That's what endgame is for.

so its fine for a level 10 to be farming mobs in craglorn?
it has no feel of progression if anyone can go anywhere

Yep, it's absolutely fine. Also, I want a video. Better not be any cp or set bonuses either, because most real level 10's don't have that.

I don't have a video, but I had one nice screenshot from one of such discussions, where elite mob was unable to kill my CP810 without CP (so no low level bonuses), without gear and without abilities slotted. Enjoy: 9k HP, 0 resistances, 500 dps. Giant, creature that will one-shot level 10 character in Skyrim on default difficulty, couldn't do anything to completely naked un-buffed toon in ESO. Giant dps was 150 against zero resistances, zero CP. (8744 is minimal health possible, if I had CP allocated that number will be higher).

And you can also see from those screenshots that it took them 4 minutes to fight one single mob. Overland is absolutely brimming with mobs. Imagine how absolutely tedious questing would be on a toon that takes 4 minutes per mob.

Also - elite means nothing except that they can't be crowd controlled. It says nothing about the difficulty of the mob - unless of course you were attempting to conflate this one giant with a world boss (which belong to a group called elite spawns). But of course you weren't. That would be, well, dishonest.

There is literally a combat hint that pops up the first time you encounter an Elite enemy that tells you they are (supposedly) more dangerous than a typical mob.

Regardless, a player who uses no armor, no skills, has no resists, who’s only tactical action is light attacking and moving out of AoE, should not be able to kill something the game itself has deemed a “threatening” enemy.

Why not?

Because it should take more than 1% of someone’s attention to succeed in a video game, at all points.

Did you know it’s quite literally not possible to die in one of the northern elsweyr quests? Well, presumably if you were able to dodge the healing the npc throws directly under your feet while managing to stand in the enemy AoE at the same time, and never using light attacks, and not avoiding any damage, just the healing. Maybe after fifteen minutes you could die if you successfully avoided all the healing, but I got bored after two full minutes of attempting to dodge the healing and only managing to watch my health drop to 85% before the regen or first unavoidable tick of healing brought me back to full again.

After that I took my level five, no cp argonian and light attacked the “boss” to death in 5 hits.

No fight, none at all, should let you afk permanently with no punishment like that.

Edit: to be clear, that two minutes of attempting to die was preceded by me going to my fridge, grabbing a snack, and eating it while I watched my character’s healthbar waver between 90% and 100%

bmnoble · November 2019

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

bmnoble wrote: »

Overland is easy because its not about the combat its about the quests/exploration, I hate to break it to you but not everyone enjoys the combat in games and would rather just get it over with as quick as possible and get back to what they were doing.

Then why is there combat? I hate it to break it to you but some people do enjoy combat in games and would rather not get through it quickly and instead would like to feel a sense of adventure and achievement that justifies the story they are reading.

See what i'm saying here? We can all say that some people this and that, but at the moment the easy content only caters for one style of player. See what i am saying?

I miss overland and for some of us it got so easy its boring. We need choice to cater for more people.

I could say the exact same thing about all the harder content in the game, why not dumb it down for all those that don't want the challenge of even the normal difficulty versions, that idea would be shot down just as quick if not quicker than this one.

There is combat because they are part of the story, can't have an Elder scrolls story without characters and enemies to fight along the way, I personally don't find combat any more enjoyable when an enemy can one shot me or has so much health that its a slog to kill something that should die quickly.

True I get bored in overland from time to time but I am not just playing in the overland, I do other stuff in the game, if the overland was more fun than the group stuff, why would I bother doing that content once I had the sets I wanted?

regime211 · November 2019

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

i like hard content.

its why i like progging trials. if its too easy it feels like grinding. and overland...

why can a lvl 10 easily do overland in craglorn?
why is a mighty deaedroth helpless against a player with broken gear and no weapon?

ok the alliance part of one tamriel was good. but the overland is so easy now its just...

i know this is a very old point... but can we make the regons scale to player level? a minimum of lets say 50 for craglorn, and then scales with the player from that point.

also bonus xp for those in that level margin? this would make questing alot more efficient to level with.

because right now, its just boring.

Go fight a dragon by yourself.

haelene · November 2019

Contaminate wrote: »

haelene wrote: »

Contaminate wrote: »

haelene wrote: »

Contaminate wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

The last thing I want is the overland content to be more of a grind when I am grinding alternate characters. I'm sure others have said this, but you have the ability to make it harder all by yourself. Remove all CP. Wear all white non-set armor and weapons.

A naked toon with no skills, no weapons, no armor, and no cp applied, is under no threat from an “Elite” mob.

You can see the screenshots right here. This is terrible game design.

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

haelene wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Spoiler Alert!

Overland is supposed to be easy. It's there to get beginners hooked and satisfy a large casual playerbase. It may be easy for you, but do try to understand that there are many, MANY players who struggle in overland content. That content is not designed for you. Play it if you want, but understand that it is not there to challenge you. That's what endgame is for.

so its fine for a level 10 to be farming mobs in craglorn?
it has no feel of progression if anyone can go anywhere

Yep, it's absolutely fine. Also, I want a video. Better not be any cp or set bonuses either, because most real level 10's don't have that.

I don't have a video, but I had one nice screenshot from one of such discussions, where elite mob was unable to kill my CP810 without CP (so no low level bonuses), without gear and without abilities slotted. Enjoy: 9k HP, 0 resistances, 500 dps. Giant, creature that will one-shot level 10 character in Skyrim on default difficulty, couldn't do anything to completely naked un-buffed toon in ESO. Giant dps was 150 against zero resistances, zero CP. (8744 is minimal health possible, if I had CP allocated that number will be higher).

And you can also see from those screenshots that it took them 4 minutes to fight one single mob. Overland is absolutely brimming with mobs. Imagine how absolutely tedious questing would be on a toon that takes 4 minutes per mob.

Also - elite means nothing except that they can't be crowd controlled. It says nothing about the difficulty of the mob - unless of course you were attempting to conflate this one giant with a world boss (which belong to a group called elite spawns). But of course you weren't. That would be, well, dishonest.

There is literally a combat hint that pops up the first time you encounter an Elite enemy that tells you they are (supposedly) more dangerous than a typical mob.

Regardless, a player who uses no armor, no skills, has no resists, who’s only tactical action is light attacking and moving out of AoE, should not be able to kill something the game itself has deemed a “threatening” enemy.

Why not?

Because it should take more than 1% of someone’s attention to succeed in a video game, at all points.

Did you know it’s quite literally not possible to die in one of the northern elsweyr quests? Well, presumably if you were able to dodge the healing the npc throws directly under your feet while managing to stand in the enemy AoE at the same time, and never using light attacks, and not avoiding any damage, just the healing. Maybe after fifteen minutes you could die if you successfully avoided all the healing, but I got bored after two full minutes of attempting to dodge the healing and only managing to watch my health drop to 85% before the regen or first unavoidable tick of healing brought me back to full again.

After that I took my level five, no cp argonian and light attacked the “boss” to death in 5 hits.

No fight, none at all, should let you afk permanently with no punishment like that.

See that's the fundamental difference between us. I don't assume 1% of my attention is the same as someone elses. This is an MMO. It is not a single player experience - which means that there are an extreme amount of varying skill levels and everyone should be able to make it through the story. Every single person. Even people with disabilities, even people who suck. I don't believe in a barrier to entry for MMO's (for the story. End game is entirely different).

The problem here is that you see challenge as the only value in gaming - when that's simply not true for many people. There are so many reasons people game outside of that. For the story is a huge part of it (hence why we see story mode in a lot of single player games now). Doing the combat is part of the immersion or maybe even a role play thing for some people. It's not all about challenge. It's not about the fear of death.

I feel like a lot of the arguments here rely on the fact that there can only be one perspective - that combat is king and the only reason to explore a game, when that is simply not true - in fact, difficult combat is a huge barrier to a lot of people that makes the game less enjoyable.

I'm not saying that you are wrong for enjoying more of a challenge - hell, i do too sometimes - I'm saying you're wrong for assuming everyone else should think the same way.

And, again, I'll say it - you can have your vet overland as long as you get no extra rewards, it's optional, and it - in no way - affects the performance or experience for everybody else.

Contaminate · November 2019

haelene wrote: »

Contaminate wrote: »

haelene wrote: »

Contaminate wrote: »

haelene wrote: »

Contaminate wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

The last thing I want is the overland content to be more of a grind when I am grinding alternate characters. I'm sure others have said this, but you have the ability to make it harder all by yourself. Remove all CP. Wear all white non-set armor and weapons.

A naked toon with no skills, no weapons, no armor, and no cp applied, is under no threat from an “Elite” mob.

You can see the screenshots right here. This is terrible game design.

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

haelene wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Spoiler Alert!

Overland is supposed to be easy. It's there to get beginners hooked and satisfy a large casual playerbase. It may be easy for you, but do try to understand that there are many, MANY players who struggle in overland content. That content is not designed for you. Play it if you want, but understand that it is not there to challenge you. That's what endgame is for.

so its fine for a level 10 to be farming mobs in craglorn?
it has no feel of progression if anyone can go anywhere

Yep, it's absolutely fine. Also, I want a video. Better not be any cp or set bonuses either, because most real level 10's don't have that.

I don't have a video, but I had one nice screenshot from one of such discussions, where elite mob was unable to kill my CP810 without CP (so no low level bonuses), without gear and without abilities slotted. Enjoy: 9k HP, 0 resistances, 500 dps. Giant, creature that will one-shot level 10 character in Skyrim on default difficulty, couldn't do anything to completely naked un-buffed toon in ESO. Giant dps was 150 against zero resistances, zero CP. (8744 is minimal health possible, if I had CP allocated that number will be higher).

And you can also see from those screenshots that it took them 4 minutes to fight one single mob. Overland is absolutely brimming with mobs. Imagine how absolutely tedious questing would be on a toon that takes 4 minutes per mob.

Also - elite means nothing except that they can't be crowd controlled. It says nothing about the difficulty of the mob - unless of course you were attempting to conflate this one giant with a world boss (which belong to a group called elite spawns). But of course you weren't. That would be, well, dishonest.

There is literally a combat hint that pops up the first time you encounter an Elite enemy that tells you they are (supposedly) more dangerous than a typical mob.

Regardless, a player who uses no armor, no skills, has no resists, who’s only tactical action is light attacking and moving out of AoE, should not be able to kill something the game itself has deemed a “threatening” enemy.

Why not?

Because it should take more than 1% of someone’s attention to succeed in a video game, at all points.

Did you know it’s quite literally not possible to die in one of the northern elsweyr quests? Well, presumably if you were able to dodge the healing the npc throws directly under your feet while managing to stand in the enemy AoE at the same time, and never using light attacks, and not avoiding any damage, just the healing. Maybe after fifteen minutes you could die if you successfully avoided all the healing, but I got bored after two full minutes of attempting to dodge the healing and only managing to watch my health drop to 85% before the regen or first unavoidable tick of healing brought me back to full again.

After that I took my level five, no cp argonian and light attacked the “boss” to death in 5 hits.

No fight, none at all, should let you afk permanently with no punishment like that.

See that's the fundamental difference between us. I don't assume 1% of my attention is the same as someone elses. This is an MMO. It is not a single player experience - which means that there are an extreme amount of varying skill levels and everyone should be able to make it through the story. Every single person. Even people with disabilities, even people who suck. I don't believe in a barrier to entry for MMO's (for the story. End game is entirely different).

The problem here is that you see challenge as the only value in gaming - when that's simply not true for many people. There are so many reasons people game outside of that. For the story is a huge part of it (hence why we see story mode in a lot of single player games now). Doing the combat is part of the immersion or maybe even a role play thing for some people. It's not all about challenge. It's not about the fear of death.

I feel like a lot of the arguments here rely on the fact that there can only be one perspective - that combat is king and the only reason to explore a game, when that is simply not true - in fact, difficult combat is a huge barrier to a lot of people that makes the game less enjoyable.

I'm not saying that you are wrong for enjoying more of a challenge - hell, i do too sometimes - I'm saying you're wrong for assuming everyone else should think the same way.

And, again, I'll say it - you can have your vet overland as long as you get no extra rewards, it's optional, and it - in no way - affects the performance or experience for everybody else.

So you’re perfectly fine not requiring anything from a player at all for 90% of the game? That’s not a game, that’s a graphic novel

Edit: I’m not even asking for a challenge. I’m asking for more than zero required effort

idk · November 2019

Jeremy wrote: »

Ozby wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

i like hard content.

its why i like progging trials. if its too easy it feels like grinding. and overland...

why can a lvl 10 easily do overland in craglorn?
why is a mighty deaedroth helpless against a player with broken gear and no weapon?

ok the alliance part of one tamriel was good. but the overland is so easy now its just...

i know this is a very old point... but can we make the regons scale to player level? a minimum of lets say 50 for craglorn, and then scales with the player from that point.

also bonus xp for those in that level margin? this would make questing alot more efficient to level with.

because right now, its just boring.

Overland is for beginners, if they make it harder imagine what will happen to level 3 new players with no cp. Stop being so selfish.

Overland needs to be for all players. Not just "beginners" (though I know many beginners who find it too easy as well).

Overland is for all players. It has more to do with the story and there are many beginners who do not find it so easy.

Major MMORPGs today have a tiered structure of difficulty with overland being the easiest. Zos follows this design as it offers content at varied difficulty to meet everyone's desire for difficulty and does not make the open world challenging to a point it pushes new players away from the game as they are the future.

Outside of Zos pushing back on the huge DPS power creep we have had over the years I doubt they will do anything to make overland more difficult. Bad business.

haelene · November 2019

Contaminate wrote: »

haelene wrote: »

Contaminate wrote: »

haelene wrote: »

Contaminate wrote: »

haelene wrote: »

Contaminate wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

The last thing I want is the overland content to be more of a grind when I am grinding alternate characters. I'm sure others have said this, but you have the ability to make it harder all by yourself. Remove all CP. Wear all white non-set armor and weapons.

A naked toon with no skills, no weapons, no armor, and no cp applied, is under no threat from an “Elite” mob.

You can see the screenshots right here. This is terrible game design.

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

haelene wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Spoiler Alert!

Overland is supposed to be easy. It's there to get beginners hooked and satisfy a large casual playerbase. It may be easy for you, but do try to understand that there are many, MANY players who struggle in overland content. That content is not designed for you. Play it if you want, but understand that it is not there to challenge you. That's what endgame is for.

so its fine for a level 10 to be farming mobs in craglorn?
it has no feel of progression if anyone can go anywhere

Yep, it's absolutely fine. Also, I want a video. Better not be any cp or set bonuses either, because most real level 10's don't have that.

I don't have a video, but I had one nice screenshot from one of such discussions, where elite mob was unable to kill my CP810 without CP (so no low level bonuses), without gear and without abilities slotted. Enjoy: 9k HP, 0 resistances, 500 dps. Giant, creature that will one-shot level 10 character in Skyrim on default difficulty, couldn't do anything to completely naked un-buffed toon in ESO. Giant dps was 150 against zero resistances, zero CP. (8744 is minimal health possible, if I had CP allocated that number will be higher).

And you can also see from those screenshots that it took them 4 minutes to fight one single mob. Overland is absolutely brimming with mobs. Imagine how absolutely tedious questing would be on a toon that takes 4 minutes per mob.

Also - elite means nothing except that they can't be crowd controlled. It says nothing about the difficulty of the mob - unless of course you were attempting to conflate this one giant with a world boss (which belong to a group called elite spawns). But of course you weren't. That would be, well, dishonest.

There is literally a combat hint that pops up the first time you encounter an Elite enemy that tells you they are (supposedly) more dangerous than a typical mob.

Regardless, a player who uses no armor, no skills, has no resists, who’s only tactical action is light attacking and moving out of AoE, should not be able to kill something the game itself has deemed a “threatening” enemy.

Why not?

Because it should take more than 1% of someone’s attention to succeed in a video game, at all points.

Did you know it’s quite literally not possible to die in one of the northern elsweyr quests? Well, presumably if you were able to dodge the healing the npc throws directly under your feet while managing to stand in the enemy AoE at the same time, and never using light attacks, and not avoiding any damage, just the healing. Maybe after fifteen minutes you could die if you successfully avoided all the healing, but I got bored after two full minutes of attempting to dodge the healing and only managing to watch my health drop to 85% before the regen or first unavoidable tick of healing brought me back to full again.

After that I took my level five, no cp argonian and light attacked the “boss” to death in 5 hits.

No fight, none at all, should let you afk permanently with no punishment like that.

See that's the fundamental difference between us. I don't assume 1% of my attention is the same as someone elses. This is an MMO. It is not a single player experience - which means that there are an extreme amount of varying skill levels and everyone should be able to make it through the story. Every single person. Even people with disabilities, even people who suck. I don't believe in a barrier to entry for MMO's (for the story. End game is entirely different).

The problem here is that you see challenge as the only value in gaming - when that's simply not true for many people. There are so many reasons people game outside of that. For the story is a huge part of it (hence why we see story mode in a lot of single player games now). Doing the combat is part of the immersion or maybe even a role play thing for some people. It's not all about challenge. It's not about the fear of death.

I feel like a lot of the arguments here rely on the fact that there can only be one perspective - that combat is king and the only reason to explore a game, when that is simply not true - in fact, difficult combat is a huge barrier to a lot of people that makes the game less enjoyable.

I'm not saying that you are wrong for enjoying more of a challenge - hell, i do too sometimes - I'm saying you're wrong for assuming everyone else should think the same way.

And, again, I'll say it - you can have your vet overland as long as you get no extra rewards, it's optional, and it - in no way - affects the performance or experience for everybody else.

So you’re perfectly fine not requiring anything from a player at all for 90% of the game? That’s not a game, that’s a graphic novel

Edit: I’m not even asking for a challenge. I’m asking for more than zero required effort

Again, for many players, that giant would have been more than zero effort. For you and I there's little to no requirement. That's not true of everybody - hell it's not true for a lot of people.

The problem I have with your way of thinking is you're making yourself and your level of skill the standard. It's not.

And hell yeah, I'm okay with people playing only for the story. 100%. Call it what you want - graphic novel, interactive story. IDGAF. This is a narrative driven MMO after all. As long as they aren't expecting end game (so dungeons, trials, even pvp) to cater to them, they can have all the narrative driven goodness they want because they paid for it just like I did.

martinhpb16_ESO · November 2019

Dungeons and trials are not for casuals, they are only for good players because only good players matter. Casuals should stay away from pvp and l2p. Casuals and beginners you just have to accept that the game is not made just for them because without vet players the game will die. Choice should not be an option.

You are all wrong and you are irrelevant, you should go and play another game or just stick to overland because that is where you belong......

Oh wait.....that sounds really sucky sucky but hey its ok when the shoe is on the other foot

Cirantille · November 2019

Tbh overland was not easy for my first lvl 10 char this summer

Now it is, because I learnt how to play the game, it is same in every game

Contaminate · November 2019

haelene wrote: »

Contaminate wrote: »

haelene wrote: »

Contaminate wrote: »

haelene wrote: »

Contaminate wrote: »

haelene wrote: »

Contaminate wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

The last thing I want is the overland content to be more of a grind when I am grinding alternate characters. I'm sure others have said this, but you have the ability to make it harder all by yourself. Remove all CP. Wear all white non-set armor and weapons.

A naked toon with no skills, no weapons, no armor, and no cp applied, is under no threat from an “Elite” mob.

You can see the screenshots right here. This is terrible game design.

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

haelene wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Spoiler Alert!

Overland is supposed to be easy. It's there to get beginners hooked and satisfy a large casual playerbase. It may be easy for you, but do try to understand that there are many, MANY players who struggle in overland content. That content is not designed for you. Play it if you want, but understand that it is not there to challenge you. That's what endgame is for.

so its fine for a level 10 to be farming mobs in craglorn?
it has no feel of progression if anyone can go anywhere

Yep, it's absolutely fine. Also, I want a video. Better not be any cp or set bonuses either, because most real level 10's don't have that.

I don't have a video, but I had one nice screenshot from one of such discussions, where elite mob was unable to kill my CP810 without CP (so no low level bonuses), without gear and without abilities slotted. Enjoy: 9k HP, 0 resistances, 500 dps. Giant, creature that will one-shot level 10 character in Skyrim on default difficulty, couldn't do anything to completely naked un-buffed toon in ESO. Giant dps was 150 against zero resistances, zero CP. (8744 is minimal health possible, if I had CP allocated that number will be higher).

And you can also see from those screenshots that it took them 4 minutes to fight one single mob. Overland is absolutely brimming with mobs. Imagine how absolutely tedious questing would be on a toon that takes 4 minutes per mob.

Also - elite means nothing except that they can't be crowd controlled. It says nothing about the difficulty of the mob - unless of course you were attempting to conflate this one giant with a world boss (which belong to a group called elite spawns). But of course you weren't. That would be, well, dishonest.

There is literally a combat hint that pops up the first time you encounter an Elite enemy that tells you they are (supposedly) more dangerous than a typical mob.

Regardless, a player who uses no armor, no skills, has no resists, who’s only tactical action is light attacking and moving out of AoE, should not be able to kill something the game itself has deemed a “threatening” enemy.

Why not?

Because it should take more than 1% of someone’s attention to succeed in a video game, at all points.

Did you know it’s quite literally not possible to die in one of the northern elsweyr quests? Well, presumably if you were able to dodge the healing the npc throws directly under your feet while managing to stand in the enemy AoE at the same time, and never using light attacks, and not avoiding any damage, just the healing. Maybe after fifteen minutes you could die if you successfully avoided all the healing, but I got bored after two full minutes of attempting to dodge the healing and only managing to watch my health drop to 85% before the regen or first unavoidable tick of healing brought me back to full again.

After that I took my level five, no cp argonian and light attacked the “boss” to death in 5 hits.

No fight, none at all, should let you afk permanently with no punishment like that.

See that's the fundamental difference between us. I don't assume 1% of my attention is the same as someone elses. This is an MMO. It is not a single player experience - which means that there are an extreme amount of varying skill levels and everyone should be able to make it through the story. Every single person. Even people with disabilities, even people who suck. I don't believe in a barrier to entry for MMO's (for the story. End game is entirely different).

The problem here is that you see challenge as the only value in gaming - when that's simply not true for many people. There are so many reasons people game outside of that. For the story is a huge part of it (hence why we see story mode in a lot of single player games now). Doing the combat is part of the immersion or maybe even a role play thing for some people. It's not all about challenge. It's not about the fear of death.

I feel like a lot of the arguments here rely on the fact that there can only be one perspective - that combat is king and the only reason to explore a game, when that is simply not true - in fact, difficult combat is a huge barrier to a lot of people that makes the game less enjoyable.

I'm not saying that you are wrong for enjoying more of a challenge - hell, i do too sometimes - I'm saying you're wrong for assuming everyone else should think the same way.

And, again, I'll say it - you can have your vet overland as long as you get no extra rewards, it's optional, and it - in no way - affects the performance or experience for everybody else.

So you’re perfectly fine not requiring anything from a player at all for 90% of the game? That’s not a game, that’s a graphic novel

Edit: I’m not even asking for a challenge. I’m asking for more than zero required effort

Again, for many players, that giant would have been more than zero effort. For you and I there's little to no requirement. That's not true of everybody - hell it's not true for a lot of people.

The problem I have with your way of thinking is you're making yourself and your level of skill the standard. It's not.

And hell yeah, I'm okay with people playing only for the story. 100%. Call it what you want - graphic novel, interactive story. IDGAF. This is a narrative driven MMO after all. As long as they aren't expecting end game (so dungeons, trials, even pvp) to cater to them, they can have all the narrative driven goodness they want because they paid for it just like I did.

The Giant was light attacked to death by a character with no CP, no armor, and no weapons. That is literally zero effort. That is ignoring EVERYTHING the game gives you, and the enemy does 500dps.

Jeremy · November 2019

idk wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Ozby wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

i like hard content.

its why i like progging trials. if its too easy it feels like grinding. and overland...

why can a lvl 10 easily do overland in craglorn?
why is a mighty deaedroth helpless against a player with broken gear and no weapon?

ok the alliance part of one tamriel was good. but the overland is so easy now its just...

i know this is a very old point... but can we make the regons scale to player level? a minimum of lets say 50 for craglorn, and then scales with the player from that point.

also bonus xp for those in that level margin? this would make questing alot more efficient to level with.

because right now, its just boring.

Overland is for beginners, if they make it harder imagine what will happen to level 3 new players with no cp. Stop being so selfish.

Overland needs to be for all players. Not just "beginners" (though I know many beginners who find it too easy as well).

Overland is for all players. It has more to do with the story and there are many beginners who do not find it so easy.

Major MMORPGs today have a tiered structure of difficulty with overland being the easiest. Zos follows this design as it offers content at varied difficulty to meet everyone's desire for difficulty and does not make the open world challenging to a point it pushes new players away from the game as they are the future.

Outside of Zos pushing back on the huge DPS power creep we have had over the years I doubt they will do anything to make overland more difficult. Bad business.

That's not what the post I was responding to said. It claimed it was suppose to be for "beginners". So it sounds like you should be directing this post at him/her.

You also don't have to push the difficulty to the point it "pushes new players away". In fact: an optional veteran version of each zone (which is what I"m asking for) shouldn't even affect new players. So I don't understand your argument.

I'm also weary of this notion that adding a little more challenge to the overland would somehow make it so super hard. Currently most things die in literally a second or two. This idea that the overland difficulty can't be increased without alienating mass amounts of players and making everything so very difficult that it becomes tedious and a chore is ridiculous. Because there is a ton of middle ground here between killing something in a nanosecond and then something actually being able to live long enough to threaten you with an attack or two. Why does this forum always seem to deal in extremes one way or the other?

Also: people don't realize that it drives players away just as well when the overland content is so easy it becomes boring. You and your like-minded debatees continuously neglect that and think that no one would ever leave this game due to it being too easy. But trust me, they do (I know many of them). And that's not "good business" either. A lot of casual players like a little bit of challenge too. Not as much as hardcore raiders - I'll own. But they don't like things absurdly easy either.

Wifeaggro13 · November 2019

redspecter23 wrote: »

Spoiler Alert!

Overland is supposed to be easy. It's there to get beginners hooked and satisfy a large casual playerbase. It may be easy for you, but do try to understand that there are many, MANY players who struggle in overland content. That content is not designed for you. Play it if you want, but understand that it is not there to challenge you. That's what endgame is for.

That's not true . Dev's never had that intention . It was the un foreseen result of tam one scaling.