A while ago i head nbs benifit more from wep damage than max stats this was on a stamblade though. Does this also translate to a magblade?

For example would you be better off going for damage mitigation through damage reduction, resists, and hots while stacking as much spell damage possible over max mag and relying on a shield?

Say if you were to use the new moon set, wizzards and troll king, maybe even brp restro run path and regen. Would that be better than using high max Mag sets for offensive and rely on harness as a defense?

Eso build editor did not have the new sets in last time i checked to see how much damage you would have from this , but not sure if that would even be enough defensive. See alot of nasty stam builds that would probably tear through wizzards no prob so idk.

WacArnold wrote: »

A while ago i head nbs benifit more from wep damage than max stats this was on a stamblade though. Does this also translate to a magblade?

For example would you be better off going for damage mitigation through damage reduction, resists, and hots while stacking as much spell damage possible over max mag and relying on a shield?

Say if you were to use the new moon set, wizzards and troll king, maybe even brp restro run path and regen. Would that be better than using high max Mag sets for offensive and rely on harness as a defense?

Eso build editor did not have the new sets in last time i checked to see how much damage you would have from this , but not sure if that would even be enough defensive. See alot of nasty stam builds that would probably tear through wizzards no prob so idk.

Max mag works really well in no-CP because of the Siphoning passive and magicka boost from hitting 300 CPs. Mag is comparable to spell power for damage.

In no-CP spell power is better.

Mayrael wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

Yeah I think I'm done with this game, I'll come back when and if the performance patch works. Been playing destiny 2, came back to eso and it's like you go kinda numb to the lag. While you're playing alot you notice it less. Go play a different game and come back and it's just like [snip].

GL fellow blades

Yeah I play one BGs match every other day, down from 10+ matches a day.

The gameplay is stale with all the struggles thrown NBs way.

Cloak isn't even fun anymore when everything pulls you out of it - and to think there are still people who don't know how to counter it.

I think it’s because sorcs love going glass canon specs and relying on lots of mag for shield size for survivability. It works well if NBs are neutered and aren’t a threat, because NBs can jump them unprepared from stealth. There’s a whole thread about it on the other page about glass canon sorc specs.

I have a magsorc I mess around with sometimes. Chudan + Necro + BTB works really well. Still haven’t decided if I’ll switch mains, it’s a pain to do undaunted and tweak gear sets on a new character, and leveling skills is a pain. Cloak is fun though so I’ll miss it, but streak is so much better.

Yup, I've jumped on my sorc few days ago just to test some builds option and it's mind blowing how big the power difference is. My builds are pretty tanky so tooltips aren't very big but e.g. when my merciless has 16k tooltip unbuffed, on similar setup my frags had 12k tooltip without 33% damage increase from proc, curse and furry were just slightly lower, while my shields were around 9k each. This power difference is stunning.

Streak is better version of fear + shade. Furry is arguably the best execute in the game. Frags can be almost spammed.

No it's not a nerf post, but seriously, magblade feels so weak when compared to sorc. Yes magblade can work pretty well to, but our burst options are limited just to two skills, one is ultimate with cast time, second requires to do 5 LAs first while on sorc I can literally spam burst.

Yea I ageee. Funny thing is I think because sorcs have been overperforming for a while they haven’t put too much thought into theorycrafting.

Try this combo: time curse and rune cage to hit at the same time, have overload up, hit wrath 2 GCDs before they hit, hard cast frags to land when curse and rune hit. If you get a frag proc you can burst someone down pretty easily.

In practice it won’t be that easy and takes a bit of luck, but if you line it up it’s almost a guaranteed kill within 1 GCD. For tooltips you have:
20k damage - 2x Overload LA weaves
12k - Frags hard casted
15k - Frags proc
12k - wrath proc
10k - Curse
Stun lands to help a bit

I tried it in some BGs and landing curse makes it a bit more complicated but it’s not too bad.

Thing I don’t get is in PvE Magblades and Magsorcs do comparable dps. So theoretically magblades should have good ways to do damage too. I’m thinking it’s because of the crit modifier passive magblades get, so maybe there are some crit builds being overlooked for magblade.

I need to mess around more on my Khajit alt to check crit builds. Crit modifier is great if you stack enough of it.

For example, shadow plus Khajit gives a 103% crit modifier I think it is. 3k crit resists reduces it by 45%.

With the way crit mods and resists work you get increasing returns the more you invest into it. At 60% deducting 45% is huge and makes crits not very effective, having 75% vs 60 doubles your effective crit modifier bonus.

Well I was sorc main for long time, my usual combo especially before summerset (when cage was undodgeable also) was weave till frags proc, then furry, course, rune cage, frags and weave. When timed well curse, frags and rune cage droped at the same time due to delays causing people to take stunning amounts of damage, usually ending with furry proc thanks to additional weaves. I'm a bit rusty on my sorc now because I haven't played on him since... like years, also delays are bit different now but it still is solid toon to play.

But love doesn't let you to choose, I'm still into my magblade

Mayrael wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

Yeah I think I'm done with this game, I'll come back when and if the performance patch works. Been playing destiny 2, came back to eso and it's like you go kinda numb to the lag. While you're playing alot you notice it less. Go play a different game and come back and it's just like [snip].

GL fellow blades

Yeah I play one BGs match every other day, down from 10+ matches a day.

The gameplay is stale with all the struggles thrown NBs way.

Cloak isn't even fun anymore when everything pulls you out of it - and to think there are still people who don't know how to counter it.

I think it’s because sorcs love going glass canon specs and relying on lots of mag for shield size for survivability. It works well if NBs are neutered and aren’t a threat, because NBs can jump them unprepared from stealth. There’s a whole thread about it on the other page about glass canon sorc specs.

I have a magsorc I mess around with sometimes. Chudan + Necro + BTB works really well. Still haven’t decided if I’ll switch mains, it’s a pain to do undaunted and tweak gear sets on a new character, and leveling skills is a pain. Cloak is fun though so I’ll miss it, but streak is so much better.

Yup, I've jumped on my sorc few days ago just to test some builds option and it's mind blowing how big the power difference is. My builds are pretty tanky so tooltips aren't very big but e.g. when my merciless has 16k tooltip unbuffed, on similar setup my frags had 12k tooltip without 33% damage increase from proc, curse and furry were just slightly lower, while my shields were around 9k each. This power difference is stunning.

Streak is better version of fear + shade. Furry is arguably the best execute in the game. Frags can be almost spammed.

No it's not a nerf post, but seriously, magblade feels so weak when compared to sorc. Yes magblade can work pretty well to, but our burst options are limited just to two skills, one is ultimate with cast time, second requires to do 5 LAs first while on sorc I can literally spam burst.

Yea I ageee. Funny thing is I think because sorcs have been overperforming for a while they haven’t put too much thought into theorycrafting.

Try this combo: time curse and rune cage to hit at the same time, have overload up, hit wrath 2 GCDs before they hit, hard cast frags to land when curse and rune hit. If you get a frag proc you can burst someone down pretty easily.

In practice it won’t be that easy and takes a bit of luck, but if you line it up it’s almost a guaranteed kill within 1 GCD. For tooltips you have:
20k damage - 2x Overload LA weaves
12k - Frags hard casted
15k - Frags proc
12k - wrath proc
10k - Curse
Stun lands to help a bit

I tried it in some BGs and landing curse makes it a bit more complicated but it’s not too bad.

Thing I don’t get is in PvE Magblades and Magsorcs do comparable dps. So theoretically magblades should have good ways to do damage too. I’m thinking it’s because of the crit modifier passive magblades get, so maybe there are some crit builds being overlooked for magblade.

I need to mess around more on my Khajit alt to check crit builds. Crit modifier is great if you stack enough of it.

For example, shadow plus Khajit gives a 103% crit modifier I think it is. 3k crit resists reduces it by 45%.

With the way crit mods and resists work you get increasing returns the more you invest into it. At 60% deducting 45% is huge and makes crits not very effective, having 75% vs 60 doubles your effective crit modifier bonus.

Well I was sorc main for long time, my usual combo especially before summerset (when cage was undodgeable also) was weave till frags proc, then furry, course, rune cage, frags and weave. When timed well curse, frags and rune cage droped at the same time due to delays causing people to take stunning amounts of damage, usually ending with furry proc thanks to additional weaves. I'm a bit rusty on my sorc now because I haven't played on him since... like years, also delays are bit different now but it still is solid toon to play.

But love doesn't let you to choose, I'm still into my magblade

I know what you mean, I like the magblade esthetic better too. A Khajit with the shadow mundus in a pelinal build using onslaught from stealth is pretty fun, but it’s limited outside that combo.

[edited to remove quote]

Iskiab wrote: »

WacArnold wrote: »

A while ago i head nbs benifit more from wep damage than max stats this was on a stamblade though. Does this also translate to a magblade?

For example would you be better off going for damage mitigation through damage reduction, resists, and hots while stacking as much spell damage possible over max mag and relying on a shield?

Say if you were to use the new moon set, wizzards and troll king, maybe even brp restro run path and regen. Would that be better than using high max Mag sets for offensive and rely on harness as a defense?

Eso build editor did not have the new sets in last time i checked to see how much damage you would have from this , but not sure if that would even be enough defensive. See alot of nasty stam builds that would probably tear through wizzards no prob so idk.

Max mag works really well in no-CP because of the Siphoning passive and magicka boost from hitting 300 CPs. Mag is comparable to spell power for damage.

In no-CP spell power is better.

I assume in the first sentence you mean CP (not no-CP). I agree in no-CP spell damage is definitely better, but even in CP its actually not clear cut depending on your build and where you play.

ie: Consider the (equivalent) spell damage you would get from one set line of spell damage or magicka, considering just common buffs/passives, so major sorcery boosting spell damage and CP + Undaunted + magicka flood passive boosting magicka.
(According to the builder CP boost is additive with other passive boosts)

Spell damage: 129 * (1 + 0.2) = 154.8 spell dam
Magicka: 1096 * (1 + 0.2 + 0.06 + 0.08) = 1468.64 mag ~ 1468.64/10.5 = 139.87 equivalent spell dam
So just with the common buffs spell damage is about 10% more

Ok so you could add inner light as well to get
Magicka: 1096 * (1 + 0.2 + 0.06 + 0.08 + 0.07) = 1545.36 mag ~ 1545.36/10.5 = 147.17 equivalent spell dam
So even with inner light, spell damage is still about 5% better
However, I can't think of any other ways to increase magicka beyond this (unless you have a groupmate running warhorn), and there are a still number of other buffs that could apply to spell damage depending on your situation, such as continuous attack, minor sorcery, and the master assassin passive. If any of these apply the spell damage becomes even better again.

So if all you care about is damage, spell damage is still most likely going to give you more, even in CP.
It really comes down to if you are after the other benefits of max magicka, such as shield strength (but this only applies to dampen/harness for magNB as healing ward scales with spell damage as well not just max mag) or simply having a bigger stat pool to keep using abilities before running out of magicka.

kaithuzar wrote: »

Take a month or two off then come back. While I didn’t mess with Cyrodiil lag, I played some bg’s w/some buddies. We dominated & I kept up; it was pretty fun.
Still rocking my old 5L 2h, alessian & willows path both bars & did great.

I have a set up like that...DW front bar. It’s still pretty effective.

Langeston wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

I need to mess around more on my Khajit alt to check crit builds. Crit modifier is great if you stack enough of it.

For example, shadow plus Khajit gives a 103% crit modifier I think it is. 3k crit resists reduces it by 45%.

With the way crit mods and resists work you get increasing returns the more you invest into it. At 60% deducting 45% is huge and makes crits not very effective, having 75% vs 60 doubles your effective crit modifier bonus.

I actually just recently built a Khajiit magblade specifically to do something like this, but I really haven't messed around with it much — I've basically been playing it like my Breton. Can you tell me more about this setup you are referring to?

Oh, I’ve mainly been using him for a build where I tried the shadow mundus, minor force as a cloakblade. Playing trying to get big burst from stealth.

I haven’t taken him for a spin in a while. I really want to try mother’s sorrow, balorgh and x. I’m not sure if crit is worth it though, crit modifier is good, but I’m not sure if you need a high crit rate to take advantage of the a big modifier; 5x light, major crit buff and Shadowy Disguise might be enough.

I’m sort of torn between multiple characters and not enough time to play them. I have stuff I want to do but am being indecisive. I don’t want to try a build and it not work.

magnb is as strong as sorc if played correctly , cannot get a good build if your race is Khajit tho

Langeston wrote: »

I'm torn between high penetration & high crit. Right now I'm using Slimecraw with Bright Throat's/Spinner's/Lover on my Breton with decent results, but I've run the whole gamut. Bright Throat's/Torug's/Shadow is pretty nasty, and the 3 second cooldown on the enchant seems helpful for pressuring, but that setup is even worse with tanky players due to lack of penetration. Bright Throat's/Crafty Alfiq is a nice combo as well. (Bright Throat's is kind of a must for me, as my playstyle is pretty sustain-intensive.)

*Warning: long theorycrafting post*

I've been messing around with some options recently in the builder while waiting for the next update to drop fro console, and I find Bright Thorat's Boast to be a difficult set to work with. I can see the attraction as its 5th piece bonus is comparatively better than the standard set bonus (being worth around 3x a normal set 2-4 piece bonus, where the standard 5th piece is normally set at 2.3x). However the fact that you have to run a drink with it is actually a reasonably significant opportunity cost vs food.

The issue with having to use a drink is two fold:
1) Drinks normally include a regen bonus of some form. However, on food drink the ratio that you normally get regen:stat in is ~1:10, whereas from almost all other sources it is ~1.17:10 (ie 129:1096). So food/drink is actually the least efficient source of regen. (**Note: one thing food/drink regen does have going for it is that it is out of combat which is good for cloaking, so if that is important to you it may override this point)
2) For drinks that do provide stat instead of regen, these always provide a lesser amount than you would get from food, ie consider Spring Loaded Infusion vs Crown Tri-Food or even more so Bewitched Sugar Skulls. Again, this makes drinks less efficient in terms of getting stats than drink.

From what I can see, using Bright Throat + Drink generally results in less total value (ie: the amount of set lines worth) than another set + food, provided that you have another place where you can swap stat for regen on your build (ie: changing jewellery glyphs from spell damage to regen) as generally the set you change to has less regen than Bright Throat.

Some examples using the more common drink options I have seen used with Bright Throats Boast:
These all compare to Amberplasm and Sugar Skulls with some other things like jewellery and armour glyph changes to keep regens similar.

1) Bright Throats Boast + Witchmothers Potent Brew + Tri-stat armour glyphs + 2x Spell damage jewellery enchants.
Change to Amberplasm + Sugar Skulls + Magicka armour glyphs + 2 Magicka recovery jewellery enchants.
Net result (before passives/buffs):
Slight (-0.5k) health drop, slight mag gain (+0.3k), large stam gain (+2.2k), bonus health and stam regen (+462 and +250 respectively), equal magicka regen, less spell damage (~-220), increased spell crit (+833).
So the total damage is just slightly less as the spell crit and slight mag increase doesn't quite make up for the spell damage loss, but you get a whole lot of max stam and stam sustain plus health regen. point. Only downside is that now less to the mag regen is out of combat.

2) Bright Throats Boast + Disast. Bloody Mara + Tri-stat armour glyphs
Change to Amberplasm + Sugar Skulls + Magicka armour glyphs
Net result (before passives/buffs):
Some health (-2.4k) lost, some stam (+2.2k) gained, some Mag lost (-1.4k) but spell damage (+129) and crit (+833) gained and also gains stam regen (+250) with only very slight mag (-29) and health regen (-43) losses.
So its basically a straight trade of health for stam (which I prefer as I find Bloody Mara gives more health than needed), bonus stam regen (with others almost the same), and damage is higher as the spell damage and crit outweights the lost mag.

3) Bright Throats Boast + Spring Loaded Infusion
Change to Amberplasm + Sugar Skulls
Net result (before passives/buffs):
Slight health (+0.4k) and stam (+0.4k) gain, significant magicka loss (-2.7k). Gain spell damage (+129) and spell crit (+833). Mag regen slight loss (-29) but gain stam (+250) and health (+462) regens.
The final damage is about the same as spell damage and crit almost makes up for the mag loss, but gain regens and a it of off stats.

Note: in cases 1&2 the armour glyph change loses a bit of efficiency due to changing from Tri Glyphs back to magicka, this is more than outweighed by the gains from the sugar skulls vs WMPB. You could always choose to keep the tri glyphs but this sacrifices magicka (damage) for the off stats versus the starting

In all these cases its generally possible to keep the effective spell damage and mag regen similar, but gain free off stat.

The only example I have seen that there isn't an equivalent that can achieve the same regens and damage with extra off stat is @fred4's build. This is because his already has everything committed to regen so it isn't possible to make up for the regen loss of swapping from Bright Throat + Hissmir. The closest I could get was something like swapping
Breton + Bright Throats + Hissmir + Tri-stat armour glyphs + Steed
for
Khajit + Amberplasm + Sugar Skulls + Magicka armour glyphs + Atronach + add vampire
I haven't tried this in the builder but I think it would result in almost the same stam sustain, but trades slightly less mag regen, health regen, and 10% speed to gain something like 3.5k Health, 2k Mag, 3k Stam, some spell damage and crit chance, and the Khajit crit damage bonus. Which seems like a lot to gain but speed and mag sustain are key parts of that build, so it may not be worth it for his playstyle.

Amberplasm would be good if bloodspawn wasn’t meta , running 1.2 stam rec in cp is totally useless ( even more if you use Tristat pots and since they added Snare immune to rat) it’s just better to get more mag and dmg/health by disastrous bloody Mara + btb

Langeston wrote: »

Heresyall wrote: »

Amberplasm would be good if bloodspawn wasn’t meta , running 1.2 stam rec in cp is totally useless ( even more if you use Tristat pots and since they added Snare immune to rat) it’s just better to get more mag and dmg/health by disastrous bloody Mara + btb

This is something I never understood: how could Bloodspawn be "meta," especially for a magblade? I don't even find it to be a particularly good set, let alone the best. (Unless you're building for tankiness & don't use cloak, in which case disregard.) You have to already be able to withstand a good amount of punishment just to be able to get it to proc, and using cloak as a defensive mechanic basically cripples the set's up time. What am I missing?

Nothing, I switched to blood spawn after the pirate smelly nerf and had a rough go. After checking CMX the most you can hope for is 40% or so uptime.

I prefer two 1 piece armour sets now.

Rianai wrote: »

You don't need that much uptime to get value out of BS. Ofc it is not a carry set like PS was, that would allow you to facetank stuff, but a bit of extra tankyness when under pressure, the ulti gen and stam recovery all together make it a very strong choice.

That's the thing though: unless you're already tanky, you may not get that "bit of extra tankiness under pressure" when you need it — because of the low proc chance you may already be dead. (Isn't it only 6%?) As for ult regen, having to rely on taking damage in order to gain ultimate seems counterintuitive for a class that's designed to avoid damage. So basically, every time you cloak you're limiting the usefulness of your monster set — the two are completely at odds with each other from my perspective.

(I never used Pirate either. Aside from Troll King I've only used damage sets & don't really like procs. I use slimecraw right now.)

Langeston wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

You can not avoid getting hit

One of the major selling points of cloak is that when used properly, it can be effective in avoiding damage — I would imagine that's a big reason why we don't have a burst heal. Can you avoid 100% of the attacks that come your way? Um, no. But I don't think anyone implied that you could.

unless you are playing a cloak spamming ganker who only ever goes for the easiest targets.

Patently untrue. I use cloak both offensively & defensively, and I'm not particularly picky about who I target. I am able to avoid a ton of damage thanks to judicious use of cloak — so much that it makes Bloodspawn almost useless to me.

I’d test it in a BG, whenever I try a new set or build that’s what I do.

If you try it solo in cyrodiil you’ll get skewed results imo. You don’t know the quality of player you’ll fight so it’s too hard to judge. You’ll see a lot more aoe spam in a BG, but I think almost every experienced non-cloak build out there has one aoe to pop NBs out of stealth, or at least I do.

Langeston wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

You can not avoid getting hit

One of the major selling points of cloak is that when used properly, it can be effective in avoiding damage — I would imagine that's a big reason why we don't have a burst heal. Can you avoid 100% of the attacks that come your way? Um, no. But I don't think anyone implied that you could.

unless you are playing a cloak spamming ganker who only ever goes for the easiest targets.

Patently untrue. I use cloak both offensively & defensively, and I'm not particularly picky about who I target. I am able to avoid a ton of damage thanks to judicious use of cloak — so much that it makes Bloodspawn almost useless to me.

I’d test it in a BG, whenever I try a new set or build that’s what I do.

If you try it solo in cyrodiil you’ll get skewed results imo. You don’t know the quality of player you’ll fight so it’s too hard to judge. You’ll see a lot more aoe spam in a BG, but I think almost every experienced non-cloak build out there has one aoe to pop NBs out of stealth, or at least I do.

Yeah, BGs are pretty much all I play nowadays. The new arena map is hell on my build, but still workable. The other maps (especially the larger ones) are fine. I do get pulled out of cloak from time to time, but I'm usually able to evade most players. Root typically presents a larger problem than AOEs, with DKs with & their root + curb stomp being pretty problematic at times, but overall considering the power deficit Magblades face, I think I do pretty well. I haven't played much in Cyrodiil, but my experience has been that it is much better suited to my playstyle.

For sure, DKs and toppling + puncturing Templars are the main reasons I started using mist form. Talked about counters with other magblades and it was always a 3+ button counter: cloak + RAT + shade or whatever. Sounds good in theory but terrible in practice.

It’s like shade, unless you have distance from the shade porting won’t necessarily save you. If you just recast shade the port won’t do much. Add mist form and you can force them to make a decision; camp your shade or chase you. They combine well.

Another thing to watch out for and figure out how to counter is being pulled. I think there was a DK who I swear would slot it every time she’d see me. Chains, into stun, into their lash thing, mist counters that too.

ExistingRug61 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

ExistingRug61 wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

I'm torn between high penetration & high crit. Right now I'm using Slimecraw with Bright Throat's/Spinner's/Lover on my Breton with decent results, but I've run the whole gamut. Bright Throat's/Torug's/Shadow is pretty nasty, and the 3 second cooldown on the enchant seems helpful for pressuring, but that setup is even worse with tanky players due to lack of penetration. Bright Throat's/Crafty Alfiq is a nice combo as well. (Bright Throat's is kind of a must for me, as my playstyle is pretty sustain-intensive.)

*Warning: long theorycrafting post*

I've been messing around with some options recently in the builder while waiting for the next update to drop fro console, and I find Bright Thorat's Boast to be a difficult set to work with. I can see the attraction as its 5th piece bonus is comparatively better than the standard set bonus (being worth around 2.8x a normal set 2-4 piece bonus, where the standard 5th piece is normally set at 2.3x). However the fact that you have to run a drink with it is actually a reasonably significant opportunity cost vs food.

The issue with having to use a drink is two fold:
1) Drinks normally include a regen bonus of some form. However, on food drink the ratio that you normally get regen:stat in is ~1:10, whereas from almost all other sources it is ~1.17:10 (ie 129:1096). So food/drink is actually the least efficient source of regen. (**Note: one thing food/drink regen does have going for it is that it is out of combat which is good for cloaking, so if that is important to you it may override this point)
2) For drinks that do provide stat instead of regen, these always provide a lesser amount than you would get from food, ie consider Spring Loaded Infusion vs Crown Tri-Food or even more so Bewitched Sugar Skulls. Again, this makes drinks less efficient in terms of getting stats than drink.

From what I can see, using Bright Throat + Drink generally results in less total value (ie: the amount of set lines worth) than another set + food, provided that you have another place where you can swap stat for regen on your build (ie: changing jewellery glyphs from spell damage to regen) as generally the set you change to has less regen than Bright Throat.

Some examples using the more common drink options I have seen used with Bright Throats Boast:
These all compare to Amberplasm and Sugar Skulls with some other things like jewellery and armour glyph changes to keep regens similar.

1) Bright Throats Boast + Witchmothers Potent Brew + Tri-stat armour glyphs + 2x Spell damage jewellery enchants.
Change to Amberplasm + Sugar Skulls + Magicka armour glyphs + 2 Magicka recovery jewellery enchants.
Net result (before passives/buffs):
Slight (-0.5k) health drop, slight mag gain (+0.3k), large stam gain (+2.2k), bonus health and stam regen (+462 and +250 respectively), equal magicka regen, less spell damage (~-220), increased spell crit (+833).
So the total damage is just slightly less as the spell crit and slight mag increase doesn't quite make up for the spell damage loss, but you get a whole lot of max stam and stam sustain plus health regen. point. Only downside is that now less to the mag regen is out of combat.

2) Bright Throats Boast + Disast. Bloody Mara + Tri-stat armour glyphs
Change to Amberplasm + Sugar Skulls + Magicka armour glyphs
Net result (before passives/buffs):
Some health (-2.4k) lost, some stam (+2.2k) gained, some Mag lost (-1.4k) but spell damage (+129) and crit (+833) gained and also gains stam regen (+250) with only very slight mag (-29) and health regen (-43) losses.
So its basically a straight trade of health for stam (which I prefer as I find Bloody Mara gives more health than needed), bonus stam regen (with others almost the same), and damage is higher as the spell damage and crit outweights the lost mag.

3) Bright Throats Boast + Spring Loaded Infusion
Change to Amberplasm + Sugar Skulls
Net result (before passives/buffs):
Slight health (+0.4k) and stam (+0.4k) gain, significant magicka loss (-2.7k). Gain spell damage (+129) and spell crit (+833). Mag regen slight loss (-29) but gain stam (+250) and health (+462) regens.
The final damage is about the same as spell damage and crit almost makes up for the mag loss, but gain regens and a it of off stats.

Note: in cases 1&2 the armour glyph change loses a bit of efficiency due to changing from Tri Glyphs back to magicka, this is more than outweighed by the gains from the sugar skulls vs WMPB. You could always choose to keep the tri glyphs but this sacrifices magicka (damage) for the off stats versus the starting

In all these cases its generally possible to keep the effective spell damage and mag regen similar, but gain free off stat.

The only example I have seen that there isn't an equivalent that can achieve the same regens and damage with extra off stat is @fred4's build. This is because his already has everything committed to regen so it isn't possible to make up for the regen loss of swapping from Bright Throat + Hissmir. The closest I could get was something like swapping
Breton + Bright Throats + Hissmir + Tri-stat armour glyphs + Steed
for
Khajit + Amberplasm + Sugar Skulls + Magicka armour glyphs + Atronach + add vampire
I haven't tried this in the builder but I think it would result in almost the same stam sustain, but trades slightly less mag regen, health regen, and 10% speed to gain something like 3.5k Health, 2k Mag, 3k Stam, some spell damage and crit chance, and the Khajit crit damage bonus. Which seems like a lot to gain but speed and mag sustain are key parts of that build, so it may not be worth it for his playstyle.

That’s interesting, I’ll look into it.

I used to use BTB in a lot of builds, but now just use it in one. Issue for me is moreso it’s difficult to hit the magblade benchmarks and have decent damage stats.

I go for 25k health and 2.4k mag regen. Once I have that I mess around trying to get the best stats possible.

I’ve found at least 2.4k mag regen to be required. It looks to me like magblade skills are more expensive then other classes, and while in PvE sustain and damage being tied to light attacks is fine, in pvp you never get the full value of those abilities that you would on paper.

The issues I see with magblade:
1. Poor self healing
2. Poor sustain (abilities are too expensive)
3. Dependent on light attacks (does not work well in pvp)
4. Utility split amongst too many different abilities. Sustain issues combined with it being hard to fit Ele drain in your build isn’t a good combination
5. No delayed damage ability to help with burst

P.S. - yea, amber plasm does give you a nice stat spread. I put something together quickly and it looks decent, just has low pen. I wanted to use an infused oblivion enchantment but less then 10k pen looked really bad to me.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=188555

I'm still not sure about the front bar. I'd like RAT, ele drain or elemental weapon on there but am not sure how to make it fit. Issue is I need a siphoning ability on my front bar and want to pair concealed with cloak for the speed. I don't think Caluurion can crit so maybe I need to decide between crit or caluurion.

The build you have there is similar to what I am looking at. You could always swap from Shadow to Lover to get more pen. Probably slightly better sustained damage (and calu procs) but less bursty crits and reduces healing.

Or you can try to get both by swapping to Khajiit and Lover to have both more pen and still have the crit damage/healing. In this case you could swap most of the rest of your armour enchants from tri-stat to mag to get similar stats stats (probably just slightly worse). The main difference would be the loss of the Breton cost reduction passive, but as this setup has more damage to begin with you could also swap out one spell damage jewellery glyph for cost reduction to end up with about the same ability costs with around the same effective spell damage. ie:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=188645
The difference would be damage would now be a bit burstier as the increased pen will help the calu procs and LA/ability crits (even if they are slightly less than with shadow), but with slightly less sustained damage and healing.
Oh plus you get another 100 health/stam regen, but you lose the Breton spell resistance.

So still a tradeoff but it may be something to consider.

Yea, that does look better. It’s still a 60% crit mod vs 3k crit resists (what most people aim for) and the pen looks better. Maybe enough pen to run infused oblivion in the front bar, IDK.

It’s too bad that caluurion can’t crit, I was trying to figure out a ranged build and it doesn’t look like a crit build will have enough burst to take down high healing players. I think caluurion is sort of required, making crit builds weaker in NBs then they should be, they’re far stronger on Templars.

Amber and crafty should be good, but the skill layout is problematic.

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=188562