MagBlade Theorycrafting Changes Thread

Akinos

Iskiab wrote: »

srnm wrote: »

I’m hoping I don’t need to use a destro front and can use DW for higher tooltips

You might try 2H?
I am told the passive bonus dmg is the same now and the stam sustain from 2H passives can be useful.

Is it? I thought DW was slightly higher. What I like best about DW is the high weapon/spell damage, plus you can split traits. You can go MH Nirhoned and OH sharpened or powered for healing.

Yea looking again the stamina sustain on that build sucks, I’d need to use the other morph of the armour skill that return stamina, that would put me at ~1k stamina regen. It would suck because I’d have to remorph for healing.

I was doing some mental math on sweeps. 14k tooltip, 18k pen (with Ele drain), 40% crit and ~100 crit mod.

Against someone with 30k resists and 3k crit resists it’d hit for around 7k and give 3k HPS...approximately.

Add the burst ability and toppling into sweeps (maybe ultimate) would be pretty deadly. DW sucks for light attacks, but maybe a poison will offset being able to light attack less.

DW is a lil bit better because of the extra pen on the offhand. But 2H has better passives for PvP still.

fred4

Well, no CP is utter garbage. I am discovering that, while I can play my build if I'm careful, I cannot properly defend in 1vX situations due to the smaller stam pool and the outrageous cost of break free. A break free AND a dodge roll to get out of Fossilize is next to impossible. The combo that gets me to safety in CP is break free followed by RAT, cancelled into dodge roll. It's a no go. I would need a bigger stam pool, Shacklebreaker, Way of the Arena or something, but feel I'm already at breaking point. I only have 25K magicka in no CP with Bright Throat's.

I fundamentally disagree with ZOS. I find resource management a chore that saps the fun out of the game. How can you play a magicka class in no CP? Wait, I know, play an entirely different build or character, preferably stamina. My build arguably works well in no CP on account of procs being strong there, but in terms of playstyle? Yuck! I am so at the limit with this build, which favors a stam-flavored defensive style incorporating dodge rolls. This is what I find fun.

Please don't recommend stamblade to me. I've tried. It's not the same and my character is a Breton. Thank god for CP. My build has pretty much escaped nerfs over the past 2 years. In fact, it's gotten stronger, but that's relative to magblade being weak as a whole. I feel it's hanging by a thread. If ZOS ever decide to nerf Zaan, Cauurion, Cloak sustain, Cloak speed, or they take the sustain out of the CP system, I'm done for.

brandonv516

fred4 wrote: »

Well, no CP is utter garbage. I am discovering that, while I can play my build if I'm careful, I cannot properly defend in 1vX situations due to the smaller stam pool and the outrageous cost of break free. A break free AND a dodge roll to get out of Fossilize is next to impossible. The combo that gets me to safety in CP is break free followed by RAT, cancelled into dodge roll. It's a no go. I would need a bigger stam pool, Shacklebreaker, Way of the Arena or something, but feel I'm already at breaking point. I only have 25K magicka in no CP with Bright Throat's.

I fundamentally disagree with ZOS. I find resource management a chore that saps the fun out of the game. How can you play a magicka class in no CP? Wait, I know, play an entirely different build or character, preferably stamina. My build arguably works well in no CP on account of procs being strong there, but in terms of playstyle? Yuck! I am so at the limit with this build, which favors a stam-flavored defensive style incorporating dodge rolls. This is what I find fun.

Please don't recommend stamblade to me. I've tried. It's not the same and my character is a Breton. Thank god for CP. My build has pretty much escaped nerfs over the past 2 years. In fact, it's gotten stronger, but that's relative to magblade being weak as a whole. I feel it's hanging by a thread. If ZOS ever decide to nerf Zaan, Cauurion, Cloak sustain, Cloak speed, or they take the sustain out of the CP system, I'm done for.

Zaan has already had it's share of nerfs, though it is still situationally overpowered. Considering it can be negated by Cloak, Cleanse/Purify, Streak, knock-back CC, etc. I think it's okay for awhile.

Caluurion is the one I worry about. Someone else correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe it's ever been touched specifically (other than fixing some bugs).

I would think that if they really analyze the data, it would be clear which class this set shines on the most and who would be hurt most by nerfing it to the ground.

Iskiab

fred4 wrote: »

Well, no CP is utter garbage. I am discovering that, while I can play my build if I'm careful, I cannot properly defend in 1vX situations due to the smaller stam pool and the outrageous cost of break free. A break free AND a dodge roll to get out of Fossilize is next to impossible. The combo that gets me to safety in CP is break free followed by RAT, cancelled into dodge roll. It's a no go. I would need a bigger stam pool, Shacklebreaker, Way of the Arena or something, but feel I'm already at breaking point. I only have 25K magicka in no CP with Bright Throat's.

I fundamentally disagree with ZOS. I find resource management a chore that saps the fun out of the game. How can you play a magicka class in no CP? Wait, I know, play an entirely different build or character, preferably stamina. My build arguably works well in no CP on account of procs being strong there, but in terms of playstyle? Yuck! I am so at the limit with this build, which favors a stam-flavored defensive style incorporating dodge rolls. This is what I find fun.

Please don't recommend stamblade to me. I've tried. It's not the same and my character is a Breton. Thank god for CP. My build has pretty much escaped nerfs over the past 2 years. In fact, it's gotten stronger, but that's relative to magblade being weak as a whole. I feel it's hanging by a thread. If ZOS ever decide to nerf Zaan, Cauurion, Cloak sustain, Cloak speed, or they take the sustain out of the CP system, I'm done for.

Yuk, magblade’s better than stamblade in almost every way. All that stamblade has over magblade is the medium armour skill line and vigor.

Stamina is an issue yea, I did some BGs today and forgot how much worse sustain is in no-CP. I’d try mist form or amber plasm.

I think break free is 5400 and dodge roll is 4k or so base? Attacking stamina is really effective in no-CP, it’s a reason all the classes with good stamina passives are great in BGs and people spam stuns.

fred4

brandonv516: I don't think it takes data to analyze. It was made for magblades for sure. It's the only class that can control the proc at will. I know that Gilliam the Rogue agrees that you should have such control and suspect he had a hand in re-designing Fury, Seventh and so on. Still, you are right. The kind of stuff I'd be afraid of is them removing the guaranteed crit from Shadowy, either as an explicit nerf to Caluu or because they forget how that set works.

WacArnold

Well I finally got this new update downloaded (my internet is slow as balls). Business as usual in eso, same classes same bs. Pretty disheartening. I'm gonna shelf the magblade. I just cannot find a way to take a punch in this game while throwing some punches myself.

Gonna play my magsorc. Eh not my fav but I patch or two ago I jumped on the magsorc and man It was a night and day difference in power.

Iskiab

WacArnold wrote: »

Well I finally got this new update downloaded (my internet is slow as balls). Business as usual in eso, same classes same bs. Pretty disheartening. I'm gonna shelf the magblade. I just cannot find a way to take a punch in this game while throwing some punches myself.

Gonna play my magsorc. Eh not my fav but I patch or two ago I jumped on the magsorc and man It was a night and day difference in power.

Magsorc isn’t the only choice, any class with a good delayed damage ability can do well, or magblade with tons of proc sets to compensate for lack of burst. Personally I’m digging templar.

Hopefully last time they played with merciless and made other changes to the class it wasn’t the NB pass and they’ll continue to tweak the class.

WacArnold

Iskiab wrote: »

WacArnold wrote: »

Well I finally got this new update downloaded (my internet is slow as balls). Business as usual in eso, same classes same bs. Pretty disheartening. I'm gonna shelf the magblade. I just cannot find a way to take a punch in this game while throwing some punches myself.

Gonna play my magsorc. Eh not my fav but I patch or two ago I jumped on the magsorc and man It was a night and day difference in power.

Magsorc isn’t the only choice, any class with a good delayed damage ability can do well, or magblade with tons of proc sets to compensate for lack of burst. Personally I’m digging templar.

Hopefully last time they played with merciless and made other changes to the class it wasn’t the NB pass and they’ll continue to tweak the class.

Prolly just gonna stick with magblade I had to rethink that lol. I hate not being able to cloak if that skill ever goes away im done. I cannot stand to get 1vx'ed, unless I escape lol.

Langeston

It just occurred to me that if NBs ever get buffed to the point that the class is roughly equal to all the others, there will immediately be 20+ "nerf NBs" threads because all the NBs that had to learn how to play on a subpar class will all of the sudden become gods compared to the players that have had training wheels the whole time.

Many [newer] players haven't had to work around the glaring deficiencies that NBs have, so their growth as a player has been stunted. (I'm aware that NBs were badass at one point, but I wasn't around for that — they've been weak ever since I started.) Hopefully I'm wrong, but I fear any buffs we get will be short-lived, as people have gotten used to NBs as being weak performers.

GhostofDatthaw

Langeston wrote: »

It just occurred to me that if NBs ever get buffed to the point that the class is roughly equal to all the others, there will immediately be 20+ "nerf NBs" threads because all the NBs that had to learn how to play on a subpar class will all of the sudden become gods compared to the players that have had training wheels the whole time.

Many [newer] players haven't had to work around the glaring deficiencies that NBs have, so their growth as a player has been stunted. (I'm aware that NBs were badass at one point, but I wasn't around for that — they've been weak ever since I started.) Hopefully I'm wrong, but I fear any buffs we get will be short-lived, as people have gotten used to NBs as being weak performers.

The nerf nb posts still come up from time to time, though they are mainly just cloak now. It used to be incap before that skill was destroyed

casparian

Langeston wrote: »

It just occurred to me that if NBs ever get buffed to the point that the class is roughly equal to all the others, there will immediately be 20+ "nerf NBs" threads because all the NBs that had to learn how to play on a subpar class will all of the sudden become gods compared to the players that have had training wheels the whole time.

I can confirm this is what will happen the next time the Wheel of Balance turns, because that is precisely what happened with templars this summer. People who had been playing the game's most gimped open world class for years were suddenly given a very good toolkit, and everyone hated it.

Iskiab

casparian wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

It just occurred to me that if NBs ever get buffed to the point that the class is roughly equal to all the others, there will immediately be 20+ "nerf NBs" threads because all the NBs that had to learn how to play on a subpar class will all of the sudden become gods compared to the players that have had training wheels the whole time.

I can confirm this is what will happen the next time the Wheel of Balance turns, because that is precisely what happened with templars this summer. People who had been playing the game's most gimped open world class for years were suddenly given a very good toolkit, and everyone hated it.

Yeah, I see it a lot. A lot of players underestimate how bad they are and attribute it to other classes being given an advantage. Compared to a magblade a magtemplar feels OP as hell.

I think it’s safe to say if someone thinks magplars or magsorcs are weaker then magblades they’re just a noob or really bad.

It’s not so bad that you can roll your face across your keyboard and beat a magblade, but those classes are all better in every possible way: sustain, tankiness, burst, healing, etc...

Playing a magblade makes you a better player though, I’d just alt it up until things are more balanced.

thankyourat

WacArnold wrote: »

Well I finally got this new update downloaded (my internet is slow as balls). Business as usual in eso, same classes same bs. Pretty disheartening. I'm gonna shelf the magblade. I just cannot find a way to take a punch in this game while throwing some punches myself.

Gonna play my magsorc. Eh not my fav but I patch or two ago I jumped on the magsorc and man It was a night and day difference in power.

If you play a meta magblade build it’s not that bad. If you use BTB/Necro/Troll king you are very survivable with good damage. You don’t really need a delayed burst ability because the bow hits with the damage of two abilities. With minor protection from undo and 10% mitigation from merciless you can get you damage shield to be sturdy enough to get you out of bad situations. Rapid regen and swallow soul are alright together. You also have cloak for flat out escape. Magblade isn’t op but it’s really not that bad either.

srnm

I think magblade's deficiencies against other classes are worse in CP.

This build looks strong for BGs / no cp:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHBCvwIVZUI

It's not too complicated, has a clean playstyle - and appears to provide tanky, dmg and sustain!

Should work well on high elf and dunmer.
Might need a little bit of stam adjustment on a Breton...

Iskiab

Does merciless hit with the damage of two abilities? Do you mean double the damage of swallow soul?

Thing is most classes have a class spammable that does more damage then normal spammables, stam typically use dizzy. For example my templar has a 16k Sweeps tooltip, my magsorc has a 12k frag tooltip (pre-proc), etc...

What’s your bow proc tooltip?

GhostofDatthaw

srnm wrote: »

I think magblade's deficiencies against other classes are worse in CP.

This build looks strong for BGs / no cp:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHBCvwIVZUI

It's not too complicated, has a clean playstyle - and appears to provide tanky, dmg and sustain!

Should work well on high elf and dunmer.
Might need a little bit of stam adjustment on a Breton...

Ehhh I watched that video, it's pretty meta tbh,he just worked in the new buffed 3pc. The problem I have with that video is he's killing cp300's one was literally a cp 50 and it took him like 30 seconds to line up a shot. Videos can be deciving.

Kadoin

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

srnm wrote: »

I think magblade's deficiencies against other classes are worse in CP.

This build looks strong for BGs / no cp:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHBCvwIVZUI

It's not too complicated, has a clean playstyle - and appears to provide tanky, dmg and sustain!

Should work well on high elf and dunmer.
Might need a little bit of stam adjustment on a Breton...

Ehhh I watched that video, it's pretty meta tbh,he just worked in the new buffed 3pc. The problem I have with that video is he's killing cp300's one was literally a cp 50 and it took him like 30 seconds to line up a shot. Videos can be deciving.

Damn, I was about to watch the vid but decided to get the comments on it first. You're saying he essentially...

EXP0sED himself!?

thankyourat

Iskiab wrote: »

Does merciless hit with the damage of two abilities? Do you mean double the damage of swallow soul?

Thing is most classes have a class spammable that does more damage then normal spammables, stam typically use dizzy. For example my templar has a 16k Sweeps tooltip, my magsorc has a 12k frag tooltip (pre-proc), etc...

What’s your bow proc tooltip?

My bow tooltip fully buffed is a little over 24k for my Cyrodil build. This is with 3 regen glyphs and a infused staff. On a dueling build I could get it a lot higher to around 28k.

Iskiab

thankyourat wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Does merciless hit with the damage of two abilities? Do you mean double the damage of swallow soul?

Thing is most classes have a class spammable that does more damage then normal spammables, stam typically use dizzy. For example my templar has a 16k Sweeps tooltip, my magsorc has a 12k frag tooltip (pre-proc), etc...

What’s your bow proc tooltip?

My bow tooltip fully buffed is a little over 24k for my Cyrodil build. This is with 3 regen glyphs and a infused staff. On a dueling build I could get it a lot higher to around 28k.

Hum, maybe my issue is in my builds I’m trying to recreate the tanky magblade style that we had a couple patches ago to compensate for not having enough self healing.

I never got around to gearing my dps magblade alt for CP.

This is what I’ve been thinking of trying on my templar (though Ele drain won’t work with DW) as a comparison. Purifying light does seem like it has a comparable tooltip to the bow proc though:

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=190702

I’m still figuring out templar so haven’t decided on skills.

GhostofDatthaw

Kadoin wrote: »

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

srnm wrote: »

I think magblade's deficiencies against other classes are worse in CP.

This build looks strong for BGs / no cp:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHBCvwIVZUI

It's not too complicated, has a clean playstyle - and appears to provide tanky, dmg and sustain!

Should work well on high elf and dunmer.
Might need a little bit of stam adjustment on a Breton...

Ehhh I watched that video, it's pretty meta tbh,he just worked in the new buffed 3pc. The problem I have with that video is he's killing cp300's one was literally a cp 50 and it took him like 30 seconds to line up a shot. Videos can be deciving.

Damn, I was about to watch the vid but decided to get the comments on it first. You're saying he essentially...

EXP0sED himself!?

I wouldn't say exposed, I'm not one to put labels like that on people. People tend to have that mentality are afraid to fight, I have beat people much better than I am and never thought, exposed, more of they messed up and I got the upper hand.

It's more of the deeper problem with magnb, you don't get those really quick "highlight worthy" shots on most people anymore, most fights last longer than say they stamdens highlight where he sub dbos and slash/spin everything.

GhostofDatthaw

It's more a problem with highlight reels in general, people like the flashy, 2-3 shots vs potato's and they are impressed. Me personally I would rather watch a 10 minute video of a person 1v2 really good players and using the environment, rather than a montage of people killing pve geared players and low cps

brandonv516

I tried out Marauder's Haste finally. The speed buff is nice and easy to proc, but I just feel that my build is lacking by trying to use a utility set.

So back to my bread and butter.

Iskiab

I have a noob question.

What exactly procs enchantments? I’m not 100% clear on this, I think it’s only light and heavy attacks plus weapon abilities, is this right?

So swallow soul - no
Light attacks - yes
Ritual of retribution - yes?
Crushing shock - ?

I think I’m getting confused between procing status effects and enchantments.

Rianai

Light attacks, heavy attacks and weapon skills - excluding the DoT part of skills like poison arrow - are supposed to proc enchants.

However, we are talking about ESO here, so i wouldn't rule out inconsistence. In the past there have been cases of enchants proccing from certain class skills and DoTs and i don't know if everything got actually changed (some changes have happened for sure tho).

I'm not aware of any magblade skills that can proc enchants. Ritual is a class skill, so it shouldn't proc them either. Crushing shock does proc enchants, because it is a weapon (destro staff) skill.
It is also noteworthy that non targeted DoTs (eg WoE, Blade Cloak) proc offbar enchants.

Iskiab

Rianai wrote: »

Light attacks, heavy attacks and weapon skills - excluding the DoT part of skills like poison arrow - are supposed to proc enchants.

However, we are talking about ESO here, so i wouldn't rule out inconsistence. In the past there have been cases of enchants proccing from certain class skills and DoTs and i don't know if everything got actually changed (some changes have happened for sure tho).

I'm not aware of any magblade skills that can proc enchants. Ritual is a class skill, so it shouldn't proc them either. Crushing shock does proc enchants, because it is a weapon (destro staff) skill.
It is also noteworthy that non targeted DoTs (eg WoE, Blade Cloak) proc offbar enchants.

Ah k. That makes sense, I guess that’s why the destro Ult is so popular in cyrodiil, thanks. Put it on your back bar to proc weapon enchants.

Is it just me or does that seem like it favours stamina? I’ll need to fit a destro ability on my back bar purely to proc the weapon damage enchant. WoE might fit the bill, but would be tricky.

On one hand ice WoE seems like a waste because Templars are loaded with snares, on the other hand Templars are missing minor maim and an immobilization.

brandonv516

Iskiab wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

Light attacks, heavy attacks and weapon skills - excluding the DoT part of skills like poison arrow - are supposed to proc enchants.

However, we are talking about ESO here, so i wouldn't rule out inconsistence. In the past there have been cases of enchants proccing from certain class skills and DoTs and i don't know if everything got actually changed (some changes have happened for sure tho).

I'm not aware of any magblade skills that can proc enchants. Ritual is a class skill, so it shouldn't proc them either. Crushing shock does proc enchants, because it is a weapon (destro staff) skill.
It is also noteworthy that non targeted DoTs (eg WoE, Blade Cloak) proc offbar enchants.

Ah k. That makes sense, I guess that’s why the destro Ult is so popular in cyrodiil, thanks. Put it on your back bar to proc weapon enchants.

Is it just me or does that seem like it favours stamina? I’ll need to fit a destro ability on my back bar purely to proc the weapon damage enchant. WoE might fit the bill, but would be tricky.

On one hand ice WoE seems like a waste because Templars are loaded with snares, on the other hand Templars are missing minor maim and an immobilization.

It definitely favors Stamina in many cases. Stamsorc for sure I'd think.

Force Pulse does make good use of weapon enchantments though, as does Clench if you choose to slot it over Fear.

srnm

It’s worth noting that while light and heavy attacks will proc enchants they will not proc status effects. https://alcasthq.com/eso-status-effects/

brandonv516

srnm wrote: »

It’s worth noting that while light and heavy attacks will proc enchants they will not proc status effects. https://alcasthq.com/eso-status-effects/

That may have changed. I'm pretty sure I've seen the burning effect procced from light attacks (having a flame enchant on my destro staff).

GhostofDatthaw

brandonv516 wrote: »

srnm wrote: »

It’s worth noting that while light and heavy attacks will proc enchants they will not proc status effects. https://alcasthq.com/eso-status-effects/

That may have changed. I'm pretty sure I've seen the burning effect procced from light attacks (having a flame enchant on my destro staff).

It will proc from the enchants that is why you see it from I inferno weaves. That is why shock was always my favorite over flame because it can proc vulnerability. Now we have lotus to do that but still it could replace lotus. Found that out when I built my ice blade a couple years ago.

Iskiab

brandonv516 wrote: »

srnm wrote: »

It’s worth noting that while light and heavy attacks will proc enchants they will not proc status effects. https://alcasthq.com/eso-status-effects/

That may have changed. I'm pretty sure I've seen the burning effect procced from light attacks (having a flame enchant on my destro staff).

Yea, enchants can proc the status effect but not the light attack itself I think.

Makes you wonder why DKs use flame staves. A light attack with a lightning staff will have the same chance of procing burning as using a flame staff, as long as the enchant is fire.