MagBlade Theorycrafting Changes Thread

srnm

"what you can’t really build for is good damage, tankiness and sustain"

My thinking is that magblade is in the position it's in due to a deliberate policy decision by zos - not by accident or oversight.

Which leads to the question "what does a class with skills and passives designed for aggressive solo assassination do when aggressive solo assassination is no longer in favour as a playstyle"?

For me it was to heal my way to GO - and then retire my nightblade,
But I read this thread in the hope that I can find a way to make my nightblade great again...

GhostofDatthaw

It's where the loss of mending to swallow and the loss of secondary effects on skills over time has really hurt magnb. Magnb is reliant on siphon and ele drain or you do need to have that high regen. With strikes and drain I could get by fine with 1.6-1.8 in open world, even lower in duels. That opens up gear, mundus, and glyphs to be spec more into damage but already takes two skills. Before it wasn't a problem because siphon helped with Stam sustain and heals, swallow was ment to be woven hard to get those heals, path healed and added pressure. The synnergy of magnb kit has been crushed.

Iskiab

srnm wrote: »

"what you can’t really build for is good damage, tankiness and sustain"

My thinking is that magblade is in the position it's in due to a deliberate policy decision by zos - not by accident or oversight.

Which leads to the question "what does a class with skills and passives designed for aggressive solo assassination do when aggressive solo assassination is no longer in favour as a playstyle"?

For me it was to heal my way to GO - and then retire my nightblade,
But I read this thread in the hope that I can find a way to make my nightblade great again...

Healing still works. You can do PvE dungeons and pvp, it’s just not as good as other classes at it. I recently switched my magblade gear over to templar and Templar is better, that’s not to say NB is bad though, just average amongst the classes. It’s better then DKs but worse then the other classes at it. It’s probably better at pure healing then Sorcs, but sorcs are better at mixing in damage and healing.

fred4

I agree with the general tenor here. I don't spend my magicka on the light armor shield anymore, but when I did it had to be Dampen. Harness was just too small. Using speed and cloak (and just Healing Ward) for defense is possibly even harder on sustain than shielding. I'm really only happy as a Breton with all cost reduction glyphs, 2K unbuffed magicka recovery and SA. I also go fully into Swift and the Steed mundus. My damage (and healing) is really bad, were it not for the procs, but I feel this is what it takes to make Cloak work and what makes the build fun to play.

I am now relying on Swallow Soul, SA and an Infused Restore Health enchant to stay on the attack a little longer. I can only recommend the latter. Forget Sharpened or Oblivion damage. Good players will still overpower you or force you to cloak, but there is nothing nicer than facing off directly with a mediocre templar for a few seconds and having them believe you're actually a threat, thus backing off, even when Caluu / Zaan is not proccing.

Took my sorc out today. This is super rare and she is a magsorc now. I completely don't know what I'm doing. Died to a templar who killed everyone else on a resource. Came back, face tanked him with shields and Overload and just overpowered him. I will, however, keep playing my melee magblade. There is an immediacy and fun to it that I just don't feel with ranged classes.

ExistingRug61

Iskiab wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

WacArnold wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

WacArnold wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

WacArnold wrote: »

@Iskiab How do you calculate the mod vs 3k crit resists? I could really use that info lol.

At what point do you find using infused oblivion over sharpened to be beneficial?

Oh didn’t see this. If you use the character builder it’ll have your crit mod, right beside the spell crit %. Highest you can get it up to, without major force, is 113% I think it is.

It also calculates your crit resist, it converts the number into a %. I just remember 3k being 45% because that’s the usual recommended number.

I think 3k is 45% reduction in the size of crits, so if I was at 113% then 45% would be deducted from the crit size. Another thing to consider is Transmutation adds 10% crit resists I think it is.

So even against a healer running Transmutation with 3k crit resists you can get an over 50% crit mod.

Crit mod is a funny stat, it’s one of the only ones where you get better returns by investing more into it.

Oblivion infused vs sharpened, IDK, I haven’t mathed it. I’m a mathematical person by nature by I use my gut. I’m also still using onslaught which lets me tank my pen. Mathing things is useful but I find there are too many variables in an MMO for it to be better than anecdotal experience.

Ok I got ya, so im at 90% and 45% resists hitting somebody with 3k resists im going to get 45% increased damage from crits right?

If that is correct, a post you had earlier made me wonder. You said most people aim for 60% increased damage against 3k resists. Mine is pretty low then, how important is it to get to at least 50%? I'm running low on options to boost that with current setup. 49% would be about my max currently, not counting vs transmutation.

There’s only really CPs, minor force (RAT), Khajit and the shadow mundus. My old rogue was a Kerra so made my alt Khajit so I can break 100% crit mod, but it’s not required or probably even optimal.

I’m thinking 5 light and maybe a couple lines of spell crit is all you need for your crit rate. Shadowy Disguise auto crit helps and I’m thinking it’s better for the crits you do get to hit hard then for them to be frequent, but it’s hard to tell.

I also noticed something, the passive for bonus damage from stealth is only to spell damage. I was thinking sets like crafty Alfiq would best because of the magicka bonus passives. I want to try war maiden now to try and take advantage of the spell power bonus from stealth.

I think your right about crits hitting hard over frequent, quality over quantity. When I read your post it made me start thinking about that. I think im going to stick at 94% mod and 48% chance, its the best I can get with my setup crit chance is almost a 50/50 toss up. I hate to invest a lot into it crit because im loosing out on so much other stuff.

I feel like crit comes down to investing more into "chance" and depending on how often chance happens, steady damage may win out in the long run.

Anyways I was on the fence about cp but I think I will invest into crit mod. Crit doesn't happen all the time better make it count when it does.

I get to 107% on my Breton, but I play the glassiest of glass cannons. I use Spinner's/Bright Throat's/Slimecraw, all divines w/ Shadow & a sharpened inferno, and it hits pretty darn hard. (I'm torn between Spinner's & Crafty, but Spinner's is winning right now.) I've found that regen is more important than health on my build/playstyle with regard to staying alive — there isn't much of a difference between 17k & 25k health if you're in light divines — so I go with Ghastly Eye Bowl.

I always open from cloak, and if/when I can CC an opponent I will quickly re-cloak & hit them with another opener, ensuring that I am able to take full advantage of my high crit damage. (I strike from cloak quite often, another reason my insane regen is necessary.) I recently made a Khajiit specifically for this purpose, which would put me at 117% crit damage, but I haven't played him much. So far though, (anecdotally at least) going all penetration seems to hit just as hard.

Unfortunately, there are just some classes/builds that I will never kill, (but they have no issues killing me if they catch me.) I don't know if that is due to skill level or the inherent weakness on Magblades, (after looking at the skills in other classes arsenals I'm inclined to believe it's the latter) or a combination of the two, but either way I've [somewhat] accepted it — for now. I'm just crossing my fingers hoping for a buff, because at this point I don't think there's much more I can do with my build.

PS: @Iskiab, this is the second time I've seen you use the word "lines" in a way with which I am unfamiliar ("a couple lines of spell crit") can you explain what you mean by that please?

Oh I just mean the set bonus’. I think I picked it up from someone else using the term, 2-4 piece bonus each being a line in the item set.

About spinners, someone said before that 5 piece bonus’ are supposed to be 2.5 times as powerful as regular set piece bonus’. For example bright throat gives 2k mag and 150 mag regen where a normal 2-4 piece bonus would be 129 regen or 1k mag.

If that’s true how strong 5 piece bonus’ are supposed to be then spinners is under budgeted.

It might be a case where it’s still good because armour gives you more the more you invest into it, I don’t know, but I’ve always been leery about using spinners because of that.

Some of the new sets ‘in theory’ should be better because they give 1700 pen in a 2-4 set item bonus, so half the spinners amount.

5 piece set bonuses are generally equal to ~2.32x a normal set bonus. This is true for all the "simple" sets that just give you an unconditional bonus, ie:
Julianos (300=~2.32*129)
Crafty Alfiq (2560=~2.33*1096)
Mothers Sorrow (1924=~2.31*833)
Fortified Brass (3460=~2.33*1487)
Spinners (3450=~2.32*1487) ( **standard set bonus for pen is 1487, not 1700, as far as I am aware)

So Spinners is on par with other standard sets (although strangely it is 10 less than Fortified brass, whereas I would have expected them to be the same).

Other sets give more, ie BTB is worth around 3x or Necro 2.85x, but this is above the standard because there is a condition that makes it a tradeoff (in BTB's case its having to use drinks over food, or needing a pet for Necro). ALternatively some sets are above because they give off-stat, ie: Shacklebreaker, Amberplasm.

Most of the basic sources of stats are also standardised. For example Mundus and Weapon Traits are generally worth 1.85x a standard set bonus, whereas Jewellery Trait is equivalent to 0.8x a standard set bonus. While this generally means you can mix and match things to get what you want from other places, the biggest problem is some stats are only available from very few sources, such as Crit damage, speed and to a lesser extent penetration.

[edit miscalculated BTB]

fred4

Out of date now, but: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/427111/stat-based-armor-set-rankings

Koensol

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

It's where the loss of mending to swallow and the loss of secondary effects on skills over time has really hurt magnb. Magnb is reliant on siphon and ele drain or you do need to have that high regen. With strikes and drain I could get by fine with 1.6-1.8 in open world, even lower in duels. That opens up gear, mundus, and glyphs to be spec more into damage but already takes two skills. Before it wasn't a problem because siphon helped with Stam sustain and heals, swallow was ment to be woven hard to get those heals, path healed and added pressure. The synnergy of magnb kit has been crushed.

This is why blanket changes, like the ones the combat team put through, are just idiotic. You can't simply say "every single target spammable should have equal cost", or "deal similar damage". You should look at it in a more holistic way. How can you freaking standardize values when the entire core of the class is different and reaches effectivebess through different means. Can anyone tell me?

Yea... I am just done trying to play magblade in any 'competitive' way and be useful to the group. Compared to other classes it is so much harder to reach the same level of effectiveness. Magdk for example, braindead easy... repeated 5-7k scores in BGs without even trying. Best part is I run a heavy armor build with 555 regen, am insanely tanky and still have 0 problems killing targets and sustaining.

Langeston

Koensol wrote: »

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

It's where the loss of mending to swallow and the loss of secondary effects on skills over time has really hurt magnb. Magnb is reliant on siphon and ele drain or you do need to have that high regen. With strikes and drain I could get by fine with 1.6-1.8 in open world, even lower in duels. That opens up gear, mundus, and glyphs to be spec more into damage but already takes two skills. Before it wasn't a problem because siphon helped with Stam sustain and heals, swallow was ment to be woven hard to get those heals, path healed and added pressure. The synnergy of magnb kit has been crushed.

This is why blanket changes, like the ones the combat team put through, are just idiotic. You can't simply say "every single target spammable should have equal cost", or "deal similar damage". You should look at it in a more holistic way. How can you freaking standardize values when the entire core of the class is different and reaches effectivebess through different means. Can anyone tell me?

Yea... I am just done trying to play magblade in any 'competitive' way and be useful to the group. Compared to other classes it is so much harder to reach the same level of effectiveness. Magdk for example, braindead easy... repeated 5-7k scores in BGs without even trying. Best part is I run a heavy armor build with 555 regen, am insanely tanky and still have 0 problems killing targets and sustaining.

This is depressing. Well, at least I know it isn't just me.

GhostofDatthaw

Koensol wrote: »

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

It's where the loss of mending to swallow and the loss of secondary effects on skills over time has really hurt magnb. Magnb is reliant on siphon and ele drain or you do need to have that high regen. With strikes and drain I could get by fine with 1.6-1.8 in open world, even lower in duels. That opens up gear, mundus, and glyphs to be spec more into damage but already takes two skills. Before it wasn't a problem because siphon helped with Stam sustain and heals, swallow was ment to be woven hard to get those heals, path healed and added pressure. The synnergy of magnb kit has been crushed.

This is why blanket changes, like the ones the combat team put through, are just idiotic. You can't simply say "every single target spammable should have equal cost", or "deal similar damage". You should look at it in a more holistic way. How can you freaking standardize values when the entire core of the class is different and reaches effectivebess through different means. Can anyone tell me?

Yea... I am just done trying to play magblade in any 'competitive' way and be useful to the group. Compared to other classes it is so much harder to reach the same level of effectiveness. Magdk for example, braindead easy... repeated 5-7k scores in BGs without even trying. Best part is I run a heavy armor build with 555 regen, am insanely tanky and still have 0 problems killing targets and sustaining.

I'm just done playing. I moved on to destiny 2 and now playing some red dead 2. This patch killed my loved for eso after 5 years.

GhostofDatthaw

Koensol wrote: »

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

It's where the loss of mending to swallow and the loss of secondary effects on skills over time has really hurt magnb. Magnb is reliant on siphon and ele drain or you do need to have that high regen. With strikes and drain I could get by fine with 1.6-1.8 in open world, even lower in duels. That opens up gear, mundus, and glyphs to be spec more into damage but already takes two skills. Before it wasn't a problem because siphon helped with Stam sustain and heals, swallow was ment to be woven hard to get those heals, path healed and added pressure. The synnergy of magnb kit has been crushed.

This is why blanket changes, like the ones the combat team put through, are just idiotic. You can't simply say "every single target spammable should have equal cost", or "deal similar damage". You should look at it in a more holistic way. How can you freaking standardize values when the entire core of the class is different and reaches effectivebess through different means. Can anyone tell me?

Yea... I am just done trying to play magblade in any 'competitive' way and be useful to the group. Compared to other classes it is so much harder to reach the same level of effectiveness. Magdk for example, braindead easy... repeated 5-7k scores in BGs without even trying. Best part is I run a heavy armor build with 555 regen, am insanely tanky and still have 0 problems killing targets and sustaining.

I'm just done playing. I moved on to destiny 2 and now playing some red dead 2. This patch killed my loved for eso after 5 years.

Edit, yeah I know what you mean about other classes, my 2nd main is templar, my good ole crafter. He runs with 1.3 Regen and has 0 problems at all.

Iskiab

Yea, sustain is the culprit I think. Abilities like elemental drain require you to keep attacking to sustain them.

For example on a templar using their sustain ability and elemental drain you get the equivalent of 1k mag regen.

Imagine how differently magblade would play if Siphoning Strikes was guaranteed to go off every second, and merciless built every second whether you light attacked or not.

fbours

Alright let's not make this a QQ thread. Yes magblades are not performing nearly as good as other classes but this is meant to provide some insight about what we can do to stay somewhat competitive and relevant.

I am not the best by far but somehow most of the time I am always top of the charts (not I'm deaths btw) in bgs as full glass with 1.2k mag Regen, I do use pots like a crack head. Classes I can't normally are Templars, sure so I just stay away from them.

fred4

Iskiab wrote: »

Yea, sustain is the culprit I think. Abilities like elemental drain require you to keep attacking to sustain them.

For example on a templar using their sustain ability and elemental drain you get the equivalent of 1k mag regen.

Imagine how differently magblade would play if Siphoning Strikes was guaranteed to go off every second, and merciless built every second whether you light attacked or not.

This is a very valid point. Once you move off attack on NB, you're in deep s h * t, if you don't manage to successfully cloak. Judging when you can stay on the attack is something you only learn gradually. You're also hampered by really advanced players who don't dodge roll, don't necessarily bunny hop, but constantly move side to side to interfere with your targeting, even at range.

It used to be NB had the healing to stay on the attack, if you kept your nerve. Kena argued this long ago. These days not so much. Siphoning Attacks is (marginally) my most potent PvP heal, when I look at combat logs, but proccing from light attacks is a tough condition to meet consistently. Sorcs proc Crit Surge semi-passively from Lightning Form. Wardens heal constantly when attacked, from Trellis, and when attacking with animal skills. Still, most people prefer any other spammable to Cliff Racer, such as Force Shock and D-Swing. That gives you a clue as to how well those classes have their healing sorted. I think most magblades run Swallow Soul, cause they need the heal.

fred4

fbours wrote: »

Alright let's not make this a QQ thread. Yes magblades are not performing nearly as good as other classes but this is meant to provide some insight about what we can do to stay somewhat competitive and relevant.

I am not the best by far but somehow most of the time I am always top of the charts (not I'm deaths btw) in bgs as full glass with 1.2k mag Regen, I do use pots like a crack head. Classes I can't normally are Templars, sure so I just stay away from them.

I am also continuing to play my magblade. I don't do BGs, but in Cyro and IC players aren't selected by MMR, thus there are plenty of all classes to kill. I am, however, not selective and it feels like I'm still learning to cope with better players. Thus far, it remains interesting. I have never played sorc long enough to say whether it's better, but certainly Cloak remains one of the best ways to cope as a solo player in open world. Lately I'm also having fun with just how brazenly I can contribute to stopping a siege by setting the siege weapons on fire under people's noses.

Iskiab

fred4 wrote: »

fbours wrote: »

Alright let's not make this a QQ thread. Yes magblades are not performing nearly as good as other classes but this is meant to provide some insight about what we can do to stay somewhat competitive and relevant.

I am not the best by far but somehow most of the time I am always top of the charts (not I'm deaths btw) in bgs as full glass with 1.2k mag Regen, I do use pots like a crack head. Classes I can't normally are Templars, sure so I just stay away from them.

I am also continuing to play my magblade. I don't do BGs, but in Cyro and IC players aren't selected by MMR, thus there are plenty of all classes to kill. I am, however, not selective and it feels like I'm still learning to cope with better players. Thus far, it remains interesting. I have never played sorc long enough to say whether it's better, but certainly Cloak remains one of the best ways to cope as a solo player in open world. Lately I'm also having fun with just how brazenly I can contribute to stopping a siege by setting the siege weapons on fire under people's noses.

Playing other classes is a good way to keep the game fresh. It also makes other classes QQ threads a hilarious read because for the most part people who play those classes have done zero theorycrafting.

Some fun things to try on other classes:

Sorc:
- Ball of lightning x4 and dark deal x2 everywhere (yea, streak is expensive my ass)
- Shield stack, then Curse -> Delayed Stun -> Shield -> Wrath -> Ele weapon -> LA (overload) - Frag proc -> Wrath and global people

Templar:
- Did you know that Templars have just as many shields as sorcs? I bet most Templars don’t. Be a shield stacking templar.
- Sweeps also does maybe 30% more damage then swallow soul, I’m still putting together my build but it has a strong kit. Thinking of trying this, though I don't know if I'll need to be tankier for solo play. You can just look at tooltips and know a magblade would never be able to fight it head to head unless it's able to gank from cloak. (Front bar poison)
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=189573

casparian

Iskiab wrote: »

[
Did you know that Templars have just as many shields as sorcs? I bet most Templars don’t. Be a shield stacking templar.

Look what I found guys, a real person actually said this!

Mageblade v templar is a tough matchup for largely the same reasons it's hard for anyone, i.e., the lack of effective counters to high healing these days. That said, mageblade is very well positioned to force templar into playing on the defensive, which is where a templar that isn't a healbot is at its most vulnerable. We also have plenty of tools to prevent them from playing around their PL window, which is a great way to avoid their most potent burst. It certainly takes practice, though; a good templar is always going to be a hard matchup for NB.

It also helps that tons of magplars are just FOTM types or spend most of their time in groups of 24 or more, so are not very good at the class.

GhostofDatthaw

Templar ward is a joke now, was nerfed hard around Morrowind. Before blazeplars were an amazing build for temps, now it's better off using living dark and spamming sweeps or going a straight ranged build and use dampen and honor

Jeezye

WacArnold wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

WacArnold wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

WacArnold wrote: »

@Iskiab How do you calculate the mod vs 3k crit resists? I could really use that info lol.

At what point do you find using infused oblivion over sharpened to be beneficial?

Oh didn’t see this. If you use the character builder it’ll have your crit mod, right beside the spell crit %. Highest you can get it up to, without major force, is 113% I think it is.

It also calculates your crit resist, it converts the number into a %. I just remember 3k being 45% because that’s the usual recommended number.

I think 3k is 45% reduction in the size of crits, so if I was at 113% then 45% would be deducted from the crit size. Another thing to consider is Transmutation adds 10% crit resists I think it is.

So even against a healer running Transmutation with 3k crit resists you can get an over 50% crit mod.

Crit mod is a funny stat, it’s one of the only ones where you get better returns by investing more into it.

Oblivion infused vs sharpened, IDK, I haven’t mathed it. I’m a mathematical person by nature by I use my gut. I’m also still using onslaught which lets me tank my pen. Mathing things is useful but I find there are too many variables in an MMO for it to be better than anecdotal experience.

Ok I got ya, so im at 90% and 45% resists hitting somebody with 3k resists im going to get 45% increased damage from crits right?

If that is correct, a post you had earlier made me wonder. You said most people aim for 60% increased damage against 3k resists. Mine is pretty low then, how important is it to get to at least 50%? I'm running low on options to boost that with current setup. 49% would be about my max currently, not counting vs transmutation.

There’s only really CPs, minor force (RAT), Khajit and the shadow mundus. My old rogue was a Kerra so made my alt Khajit so I can break 100% crit mod, but it’s not required or probably even optimal.

I’m thinking 5 light and maybe a couple lines of spell crit is all you need for your crit rate. Shadowy Disguise auto crit helps and I’m thinking it’s better for the crits you do get to hit hard then for them to be frequent, but it’s hard to tell.

I also noticed something, the passive for bonus damage from stealth is only to spell damage. I was thinking sets like crafty Alfiq would best because of the magicka bonus passives. I want to try war maiden now to try and take advantage of the spell power bonus from stealth.

I think your right about crits hitting hard over frequent, quality over quantity. When I read your post it made me start thinking about that. I think im going to stick at 94% mod and 48% chance, its the best I can get with my setup crit chance is almost a 50/50 toss up. I hate to invest a lot into it crit because im loosing out on so much other stuff.

I feel like crit comes down to investing more into "chance" and depending on how often chance happens, steady damage may win out in the long run.

Anyways I was on the fence about cp but I think I will invest into crit mod. Crit doesn't happen all the time better make it count when it does.

It really depends on the playstyle you have. On a cloakblade crit is not of much value, but if you run dark cloak + leeching strikes crit is the only real amplifier to increase healing AND damage (since they both dont scale with pen and spelldmg)

precise weapons and rat actually come in very handy with such a build, though it is over all quite weak as has been pointed out countless times here

GhostofDatthaw

casparian wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

[
Did you know that Templars have just as many shields as sorcs? I bet most Templars don’t. Be a shield stacking templar.

Look what I found guys, a real person actually said this!

Mageblade v templar is a tough matchup for largely the same reasons it's hard for anyone, i.e., the lack of effective counters to high healing these days. That said, mageblade is very well positioned to force templar into playing on the defensive, which is where a templar that isn't a healbot is at its most vulnerable. We also have plenty of tools to prevent them from playing around their PL window, which is a great way to avoid their most potent burst. It certainly takes practice, though; a good templar is always going to be a hard matchup for NB.

It also helps that tons of magplars are just FOTM types or spend most of their time in groups of 24 or more, so are not very good at the class.

That is why I have been saying for years overwhelming and skoria is a Templars best friend, it pulls nbs from cloak which is just mean, now it helps with sustain, and the proc of skoria while blockcasting bol allows a nice opening for a cc and tide swing

casparian

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

That is why I have been saying for years overwhelming and skoria is a Templars best friend, it pulls nbs from cloak which is just mean, now it helps with sustain, and the proc of skoria while blockcasting bol allows a nice opening for a cc and tide swing

Though Skoria is now much harder to pull off, as Sweeps doesn't proc it and Vamp Bane is no longer worth running.

Old Living Dark was my favorite way to deal with NBs -- cast it on them while they're going in for the kill while you're at half health then go offensive while they think they're killing you with their burst combo. I think that's how I used to kill you :P

Similarly, old Incap was my favorite way to deal with templars. Burst CC while they're on the offensive, then Merciless into Impale. Hard to recover from.

GhostofDatthaw

Does sweeps not proc it anymore? Big gey, I know they reworked the way the cp effected sweeps a patch or so ago, I guess it was that change

Yeah I kinda miss the old total dark, was strange to get used to but once you learned it was very effective. I learned that trick watching you duel at events.

casparian

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

Does sweeps not proc it anymore? Big gey, I know they reworked the way the cp effected sweeps a patch or so ago, I guess it was that change

Yeah I kinda miss the old total dark, was strange to get used to but once you learned it was very effective. I learned that trick watching you duel at events.

I actually don't know if sweeps doesn't proc it -- it's not supposed to proc it, but sweeps also doesn't proc sets it is supposed to proc now, so who knows.

fred4

Templars who try to burst you with PL aren't really the problem. Wrong strategy against magblade, IMO. The nasty ones just spam Sweeps. The really nasty ones combine detect potions, Toppling Charge, Crescent Sweep and Solar Barrage with Sweeps spam and are probably wearing Overwhelming Surge.

fred4

casparian wrote: »

Though Skoria is now much harder to pull off, as Sweeps doesn't proc it.

Block cast Sweeps on a target skeleton and watch it proc even now.

Iskiab

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

Templar ward is a joke now, was nerfed hard around Morrowind. Before blazeplars were an amazing build for temps, now it's better off using living dark and spamming sweeps or going a straight ranged build and use dampen and honor

I don’t see why. Typically when things are nerfed people get in a mindset that now it sucks and people overlook the ability.

I’m not planning to spam it, just use it to transition from defensive to offense, and proc the weapon damage enchant.

I should probably switch to extended ritual though. If a templar’s having issues with sorcs they must not be cleansing themselves enough.

I also rarely see Templars run crit builds, that build has over 100% crit mod.

GhostofDatthaw

Iskiab wrote: »

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

Templar ward is a joke now, was nerfed hard around Morrowind. Before blazeplars were an amazing build for temps, now it's better off using living dark and spamming sweeps or going a straight ranged build and use dampen and honor

I don’t see why. Typically when things are nerfed people get in a mindset that now it sucks and people overlook the ability.

I’m not planning to spam it, just use it to transition from defensive to offense, and proc the weapon damage enchant.

I should probably switch to extended ritual though. If a templar’s having issues with sorcs they must not be cleansing themselves enough.

I also rarely see Templars run crit builds, that build has over 100% crit mod.

I guess imo it came down to bar space, I like to use PL for the burst and the heal when you kill someone, and I like to use an inferno staff and use Jesus beam. I know alot of people say lightning is bis but it's honestly debatable depending on how you burst, and the tools you use. I had have a different method of getting out of that back bar cycle so to me the use of that small shield is a waste of resources.

Akinos

fred4 wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

Though Skoria is now much harder to pull off, as Sweeps doesn't proc it.

Block cast Sweeps on a target skeleton and watch it proc even now.

No such thing as block casting sweeps. Block drops if you do cast sweeps while blocking.

Iskiab

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

Templar ward is a joke now, was nerfed hard around Morrowind. Before blazeplars were an amazing build for temps, now it's better off using living dark and spamming sweeps or going a straight ranged build and use dampen and honor

I don’t see why. Typically when things are nerfed people get in a mindset that now it sucks and people overlook the ability.

I’m not planning to spam it, just use it to transition from defensive to offense, and proc the weapon damage enchant.

I should probably switch to extended ritual though. If a templar’s having issues with sorcs they must not be cleansing themselves enough.

I also rarely see Templars run crit builds, that build has over 100% crit mod.

I guess imo it came down to bar space, I like to use PL for the burst and the heal when you kill someone, and I like to use an inferno staff and use Jesus beam. I know alot of people say lightning is bis but it's honestly debatable depending on how you burst, and the tools you use. I had have a different method of getting out of that back bar cycle so to me the use of that small shield is a waste of resources.

Yea, I could see that. I’m hoping I don’t need to use a destro front and can use DW for higher tooltips, it doesn’t work well on magblade dps but I’ll give it a go as a templar.

I was thinking block casting with ice will give me Ele drain but S&B would be the way to go with a destro front bar.

srnm

I’m hoping I don’t need to use a destro front and can use DW for higher tooltips

You might try 2H?
I am told the passive bonus dmg is the same now and the stam sustain from 2H passives can be useful.

Iskiab

srnm wrote: »

I’m hoping I don’t need to use a destro front and can use DW for higher tooltips

You might try 2H?
I am told the passive bonus dmg is the same now and the stam sustain from 2H passives can be useful.

Is it? I thought DW was slightly higher. What I like best about DW is the high weapon/spell damage, plus you can split traits. You can go MH Nirhoned and OH sharpened or powered for healing.

Yea looking again the stamina sustain on that build sucks, I’d need to use the other morph of the armour skill that return stamina, that would put me at ~1k stamina regen. It would suck because I’d have to remorph for healing.

I was doing some mental math on sweeps. 14k tooltip, 18k pen (with Ele drain), 40% crit and ~100 crit mod.

Against someone with 30k resists and 3k crit resists it’d hit for around 7k and give 3k HPS...approximately.

Add the burst ability and toppling into sweeps (maybe ultimate) would be pretty deadly. DW sucks for light attacks, but maybe a poison will offset being able to light attack less.