MagBlade Theorycrafting Changes Thread

fred4

ExistingRug61 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

I was mainly trying to figure out a way to get rid of the downside of using using a 2H weapon for onslaught with weak light attacks because they scale with stam and weapon damage.

Yeah I figured that was the case. At least with New Moon Acolyte there is still some benefit for the 2H light attacks from the raw weapon damage it gives, but obviously not as much as you had with Pelinals. I guess it depends if the increase it mag damage counteracts it.

I am trying to figure out a build that is somewhere between yours and @fred4's.
Basically Calu + swift melee magblade, but with dual wield not flame staff. So I can relate to:

Iskiab wrote: »

People always ask me why I don’t just play a stamblade. Silly question, because I’m a magblade.

My answer to "Why dual wield on Magblade?" would probably be similar.
Obviously dual wield is a definite non-optimal choice, but its my preference in terms of style and I just want to see if its viable at all. My only consolations is that at least the twin blade and blunt passive should buff calu proc along with higher base spell damage (and being able to go nirn + 1/2 strength sharpened may be a slight bonus).

I was intending it for no-CP, in CP I think dual wield would be an even greater loss due to the light attacks being non-magicka damage.

It is challenging to find the right set to pair with Calu for this type of build though though. Ideally I want additional penetration as I feel that is very strong in no-CP plus its one of the few ways I have to maximise Calu's proc (ie: spinners, lover mundus). The more recent sets that provide free off-stat are also nice as these buff the dual wield light attacks (ie: shackle, new moon acolyte). But the biggest problem is trying to get enough sustain, especially given I would prefer out of combat mag regen and reasonable stam regen. Have to give something up, and I'm feeling like the most likely scenario is I will end up with really low max mag.

DW has just been nerfed so much. Would have to check, but I think DW twin blade and blunt buffs Caluu as does the equivalent 2H passive, AS DOES the Flame Staff +8% single target damage passive. Nirn is of no benefit to the procs. Going full Sharpened would be better in that regard, whereas I now go Infused for the restore health enchant.

What might be interesting is if you could somehow scrape enough stam sustain to make Quick Cloak / Blackrose DW viable.

In terms of monster sets, I cannot get away from Zaan. I tried Velidreth on someone's recommendation, but it misses a ton. It just doesn't hit people. At least when Zaan procs, it's a guaranteed hit. Zaan is what allows you to get away with such low stats. To be honest, you won't take down an experienced tanky DK with Zaan + Caluu, but you'll at least give them trouble.

I find it really hard to get away from Bright-Throat's. I've tried heavy Seducer, Buffer of the Swift, Shacklebreaker, that +20% shield speed set. I've worn Spinner and Auroran's Thunder in the past. The sustain just isn't there with most sets for the playstyle that I like, while neither Spinner nor Thunder will guarantee you kills. There will still be plenty of tanky people you can't really make inroads into.

What has made quite a big difference for me is using Concealed entirely passively on the off bar, while having a pure attacking ranged / melee bar with the flame staff. You need Concealed on the cloaking bar. You want to cast RAT and Siphoning Attacks in cloak. There's just not enough room to string together a decent attack on the cloaking bar, given those parameters. I had Lotus Fan on that bar, leaving no room for Fear. That was then. Now I bar swap before Lotus Fan and have 4 more attack skills (plus ultimate) to work with, currently Swallow Soul, Fear, Impale and Inner Light. It works better.

Koensol

Iskiab wrote: »

I think those armour lines are actually a downside rather than upside. It’s such a relatively small amount compared to say going Nord or a 1 piece monster set.

I’d actually try Grundwulf or whatever it’s called. You’ll lose damage from no minor berserk but the monster set looks decent to me, only reason I don’t use it is because monster sets are so good for defense.

I’d steer clear of Blood thorn. You’ll get less magicka back from dropping one of your existing sets, plus it’s not efficient. It has a harder condition to meet then other kind of procs (% on direct damage is harder to meet then % of crit damage because of dots). In a sense you’d be using 3 sustain sets, but being able to devote all your jewellery glyphs to damage might be worth it.

Those armor lines are definately not wasted, imo. Remember I don't run shadowy disguise, so I need to prevent myself being one shot. Together with 10% from merciless and 8% from dark cloak it gives just enough defense to allow me to run a damage monsterset with a lovely crit bonus on it. If I ran grundwulf (which does seem nice) it would kind of defeat the purpose of this build: working in as much damage and max stats as possible without investing too much into magicka regen. Grundwulf would increase my stam sustain, but lose me too much burst damage as I don't have any additional ways to increase my dmg again. Jewels are already full dmg enchanted. What I could try is run grundwulf, but then drop magicka furnace for another front bar set to fill the gap in lost dmg.

Bloodthorn isn't hard to proc at all btw, especially on a magblade. It procs from all direct damage attacks, every 5 sec. So a simple light attack would guarantee a proc. But I agree with you that it is probably not the best choice, and I like magicka furnace better just for the line of armor.

@WacArnold You're right. Going for max stam is basically what I did, with a value of 16k in no cp, and I agree it is easier than working in stam regen. I thought about remorphing to leeching strikes, but I don't think I can afford it since both my sets only proc when attacked. I need some mag sustain too when on the offensive or I will run dry when pushing for kills.

Iskiab

I had a lot of trouble with toppling too, especially 2x Templars using them together, super nasty.

Have you guys tried bloodspawn or 2x 1 piece armour monster sets? I used to use bloodspawn on my healer to make up for light, but last time I checked the uptime was really bad if you aren’t brawling. I switched to 2x 1 piece armour sets.

2x 1 piece armour sets/bloodspawn, going for higher stamina with altmer might be a good setup. Rely on your racial passive to recover stamina with a high stam amount.

Koensol

Iskiab wrote: »

I had a lot of trouble with toppling too, especially 2x Templars using them together, super nasty.

Have you guys tried bloodspawn or 2x 1 piece armour monster sets? I used to use bloodspawn on my healer to make up for light, but last time I checked the uptime was really bad if you aren’t brawling. I switched to 2x 1 piece armour sets.

2x 1 piece armour sets/bloodspawn, going for higher stamina with altmer might be a good setup. Rely on your racial passive to recover stamina with a high stam amount.

I run, have ran, and will continue to run 2x1 piece armor monster sets on some builds, no matter the class. It is always rock solid imo and the advantage compared to bloodspawn is it prevents being burst beforehand. Bloodspawn is good too but only on builds which already have sufficient mitigation. I use it mostly for the ult gen when using expensive ults like meteor, etc.

GhostofDatthaw

Yeah I think I'm done with this game, I'll come back when and if the performance patch works. Been playing destiny 2, came back to eso and it's like you go kinda numb to the lag. While you're playing alot you notice it less. Go play a different game and come back and it's just like wtf.

GL fellow blades

GhostofDatthaw

Oh and bs, best possible uptime is about 40% I run it in duels with dark cloak and that's the highest it gets. It's really an ult gen tool tbh.

brandonv516

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

Yeah I think I'm done with this game, I'll come back when and if the performance patch works. Been playing destiny 2, came back to eso and it's like you go kinda numb to the lag. While you're playing alot you notice it less. Go play a different game and come back and it's just like wtf.

GL fellow blades

Yeah I play one BGs match every other day, down from 10+ matches a day.

The gameplay is stale with all the struggles thrown NBs way.

Cloak isn't even fun anymore when everything pulls you out of it - and to think there are still people who don't know how to counter it.

fred4

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

Yeah I think I'm done with this game, I'll come back when and if the performance patch works. Been playing destiny 2, came back to eso and it's like you go kinda numb to the lag. While you're playing alot you notice it less. Go play a different game and come back and it's just like wtf.

That's how I feel having grown up in IC. I don't know how my guildmates tolerate Cyro at prime time.

Iskiab

brandonv516 wrote: »

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

Yeah I think I'm done with this game, I'll come back when and if the performance patch works. Been playing destiny 2, came back to eso and it's like you go kinda numb to the lag. While you're playing alot you notice it less. Go play a different game and come back and it's just like wtf.

GL fellow blades

Yeah I play one BGs match every other day, down from 10+ matches a day.

The gameplay is stale with all the struggles thrown NBs way.

Cloak isn't even fun anymore when everything pulls you out of it - and to think there are still people who don't know how to counter it.

I think it’s because sorcs love going glass canon specs and relying on lots of mag for shield size for survivability. It works well if NBs are neutered and aren’t a threat, because NBs can jump them unprepared from stealth. There’s a whole thread about it on the other page about glass canon sorc specs.

I have a magsorc I mess around with sometimes. Chudan + Necro + BTB works really well. Still haven’t decided if I’ll switch mains, it’s a pain to do undaunted and tweak gear sets on a new character, and leveling skills is a pain. Cloak is fun though so I’ll miss it, but streak is so much better.

Mayrael

Iskiab wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

Yeah I think I'm done with this game, I'll come back when and if the performance patch works. Been playing destiny 2, came back to eso and it's like you go kinda numb to the lag. While you're playing alot you notice it less. Go play a different game and come back and it's just like wtf.

GL fellow blades

Yeah I play one BGs match every other day, down from 10+ matches a day.

The gameplay is stale with all the struggles thrown NBs way.

Cloak isn't even fun anymore when everything pulls you out of it - and to think there are still people who don't know how to counter it.

I think it’s because sorcs love going glass canon specs and relying on lots of mag for shield size for survivability. It works well if NBs are neutered and aren’t a threat, because NBs can jump them unprepared from stealth. There’s a whole thread about it on the other page about glass canon sorc specs.

I have a magsorc I mess around with sometimes. Chudan + Necro + BTB works really well. Still haven’t decided if I’ll switch mains, it’s a pain to do undaunted and tweak gear sets on a new character, and leveling skills is a pain. Cloak is fun though so I’ll miss it, but streak is so much better.

Yup, I've jumped on my sorc few days ago just to test some builds option and it's mind blowing how big the power difference is. My builds are pretty tanky so tooltips aren't very big but e.g. when my merciless has 16k tooltip unbuffed, on similar setup my frags had 12k tooltip without 33% damage increase from proc, curse and furry were just slightly lower, while my shields were around 9k each. This power difference is stunning.

Streak is better version of fear + shade. Furry is arguably the best execute in the game. Frags can be almost spammed.

No it's not a nerf post, but seriously, magblade feels so weak when compared to sorc. Yes magblade can work pretty well to, but our burst options are limited just to two skills, one is ultimate with cast time, second requires to do 5 LAs first while on sorc I can literally spam burst.

GhostofDatthaw

It's because the dev don't know what the *** they are doing and the hypocrisy is absurd. They take from magnb because things are "overloaded" then turn around and give *** like unblockable cc to streak. Talk about overloaded, I would rather fight stun frags. Meanwhile they remove maim from out cc and leave it at just a bar filler for a cc and passives.

fred4

Mayrael wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

Yeah I think I'm done with this game, I'll come back when and if the performance patch works. Been playing destiny 2, came back to eso and it's like you go kinda numb to the lag. While you're playing alot you notice it less. Go play a different game and come back and it's just like wtf.

GL fellow blades

Yeah I play one BGs match every other day, down from 10+ matches a day.

The gameplay is stale with all the struggles thrown NBs way.

Cloak isn't even fun anymore when everything pulls you out of it - and to think there are still people who don't know how to counter it.

I think it’s because sorcs love going glass canon specs and relying on lots of mag for shield size for survivability. It works well if NBs are neutered and aren’t a threat, because NBs can jump them unprepared from stealth. There’s a whole thread about it on the other page about glass canon sorc specs.

I have a magsorc I mess around with sometimes. Chudan + Necro + BTB works really well. Still haven’t decided if I’ll switch mains, it’s a pain to do undaunted and tweak gear sets on a new character, and leveling skills is a pain. Cloak is fun though so I’ll miss it, but streak is so much better.

Yup, I've jumped on my sorc few days ago just to test some builds option and it's mind blowing how big the power difference is. My builds are pretty tanky so tooltips aren't very big but e.g. when my merciless has 16k tooltip unbuffed, on similar setup my frags had 12k tooltip without 33% damage increase from proc, curse and furry were just slightly lower, while my shields were around 9k each. This power difference is stunning.

Streak is better version of fear + shade. Furry is arguably the best execute in the game. Frags can be almost spammed.

No it's not a nerf post, but seriously, magblade feels so weak when compared to sorc. Yes magblade can work pretty well to, but our burst options are limited just to two skills, one is ultimate with cast time, second requires to do 5 LAs first while on sorc I can literally spam burst.

It's good to hear this from someone who has tried both classes. It's pretty much how I feel. What stops me from switching is that I'm old and married to my magblade, one of my oldest characters. I decided earlier this year to focus on her in order to raise my game and, subjectively at least, that is working for me, but magblade is tough.

Iskiab

Mayrael wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

Yeah I think I'm done with this game, I'll come back when and if the performance patch works. Been playing destiny 2, came back to eso and it's like you go kinda numb to the lag. While you're playing alot you notice it less. Go play a different game and come back and it's just like wtf.

GL fellow blades

Yeah I play one BGs match every other day, down from 10+ matches a day.

The gameplay is stale with all the struggles thrown NBs way.

Cloak isn't even fun anymore when everything pulls you out of it - and to think there are still people who don't know how to counter it.

I think it’s because sorcs love going glass canon specs and relying on lots of mag for shield size for survivability. It works well if NBs are neutered and aren’t a threat, because NBs can jump them unprepared from stealth. There’s a whole thread about it on the other page about glass canon sorc specs.

I have a magsorc I mess around with sometimes. Chudan + Necro + BTB works really well. Still haven’t decided if I’ll switch mains, it’s a pain to do undaunted and tweak gear sets on a new character, and leveling skills is a pain. Cloak is fun though so I’ll miss it, but streak is so much better.

Yup, I've jumped on my sorc few days ago just to test some builds option and it's mind blowing how big the power difference is. My builds are pretty tanky so tooltips aren't very big but e.g. when my merciless has 16k tooltip unbuffed, on similar setup my frags had 12k tooltip without 33% damage increase from proc, curse and furry were just slightly lower, while my shields were around 9k each. This power difference is stunning.

Streak is better version of fear + shade. Furry is arguably the best execute in the game. Frags can be almost spammed.

No it's not a nerf post, but seriously, magblade feels so weak when compared to sorc. Yes magblade can work pretty well to, but our burst options are limited just to two skills, one is ultimate with cast time, second requires to do 5 LAs first while on sorc I can literally spam burst.

Yea I ageee. Funny thing is I think because sorcs have been overperforming for a while they haven’t put too much thought into theorycrafting.

Try this combo: time curse and rune cage to hit at the same time, have overload up, hit wrath 2 GCDs before they hit, hard cast frags to land when curse and rune hit. If you get a frag proc you can burst someone down pretty easily.

In practice it won’t be that easy and takes a bit of luck, but if you line it up it’s almost a guaranteed kill within 1 GCD. For tooltips you have:
20k damage - 2x Overload LA weaves
12k - Frags hard casted
15k - Frags proc
12k - wrath proc
10k - Curse
Stun lands to help a bit

I tried it in some BGs and landing curse makes it a bit more complicated but it’s not too bad.

Thing I don’t get is in PvE Magblades and Magsorcs do comparable dps. So theoretically magblades should have good ways to do damage too. I’m thinking it’s because of the crit modifier passive magblades get, so maybe there are some crit builds being overlooked for magblade.

I need to mess around more on my Khajit alt to check crit builds. Crit modifier is great if you stack enough of it.

For example, shadow plus Khajit gives a 103% crit modifier I think it is. 3k crit resists reduces it by 45%.

With the way crit mods and resists work you get increasing returns the more you invest into it. At 60% deducting 45% is huge and makes crits not very effective, having 75% vs 60 doubles your effective crit modifier bonus.

WacArnold

A while ago i head nbs benifit more from wep damage than max stats this was on a stamblade though. Does this also translate to a magblade?

For example would you be better off going for damage mitigation through damage reduction, resists, and hots while stacking as much spell damage possible over max mag and relying on a shield?

Say if you were to use the new moon set, wizzards and troll king, maybe even brp restro run path and regen. Would that be better than using high max Mag sets for offensive and rely on harness as a defense?

Eso build editor did not have the new sets in last time i checked to see how much damage you would have from this , but not sure if that would even be enough defensive. See alot of nasty stam builds that would probably tear through wizzards no prob so idk.

Mayrael

Iskiab wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

Yeah I think I'm done with this game, I'll come back when and if the performance patch works. Been playing destiny 2, came back to eso and it's like you go kinda numb to the lag. While you're playing alot you notice it less. Go play a different game and come back and it's just like wtf.

GL fellow blades

Yeah I play one BGs match every other day, down from 10+ matches a day.

The gameplay is stale with all the struggles thrown NBs way.

Cloak isn't even fun anymore when everything pulls you out of it - and to think there are still people who don't know how to counter it.

I think it’s because sorcs love going glass canon specs and relying on lots of mag for shield size for survivability. It works well if NBs are neutered and aren’t a threat, because NBs can jump them unprepared from stealth. There’s a whole thread about it on the other page about glass canon sorc specs.

I have a magsorc I mess around with sometimes. Chudan + Necro + BTB works really well. Still haven’t decided if I’ll switch mains, it’s a pain to do undaunted and tweak gear sets on a new character, and leveling skills is a pain. Cloak is fun though so I’ll miss it, but streak is so much better.

Yup, I've jumped on my sorc few days ago just to test some builds option and it's mind blowing how big the power difference is. My builds are pretty tanky so tooltips aren't very big but e.g. when my merciless has 16k tooltip unbuffed, on similar setup my frags had 12k tooltip without 33% damage increase from proc, curse and furry were just slightly lower, while my shields were around 9k each. This power difference is stunning.

Streak is better version of fear + shade. Furry is arguably the best execute in the game. Frags can be almost spammed.

No it's not a nerf post, but seriously, magblade feels so weak when compared to sorc. Yes magblade can work pretty well to, but our burst options are limited just to two skills, one is ultimate with cast time, second requires to do 5 LAs first while on sorc I can literally spam burst.

Yea I ageee. Funny thing is I think because sorcs have been overperforming for a while they haven’t put too much thought into theorycrafting.

Try this combo: time curse and rune cage to hit at the same time, have overload up, hit wrath 2 GCDs before they hit, hard cast frags to land when curse and rune hit. If you get a frag proc you can burst someone down pretty easily.

In practice it won’t be that easy and takes a bit of luck, but if you line it up it’s almost a guaranteed kill within 1 GCD. For tooltips you have:
20k damage - 2x Overload LA weaves
12k - Frags hard casted
15k - Frags proc
12k - wrath proc
10k - Curse
Stun lands to help a bit

I tried it in some BGs and landing curse makes it a bit more complicated but it’s not too bad.

Thing I don’t get is in PvE Magblades and Magsorcs do comparable dps. So theoretically magblades should have good ways to do damage too. I’m thinking it’s because of the crit modifier passive magblades get, so maybe there are some crit builds being overlooked for magblade.

I need to mess around more on my Khajit alt to check crit builds. Crit modifier is great if you stack enough of it.

For example, shadow plus Khajit gives a 103% crit modifier I think it is. 3k crit resists reduces it by 45%.

With the way crit mods and resists work you get increasing returns the more you invest into it. At 60% deducting 45% is huge and makes crits not very effective, having 75% vs 60 doubles your effective crit modifier bonus.

Well I was sorc main for long time, my usual combo especially before summerset (when cage was undodgeable also) was weave till frags proc, then furry, course, rune cage, frags and weave. When timed well curse, frags and rune cage droped at the same time due to delays causing people to take stunning amounts of damage, usually ending with furry proc thanks to additional weaves. I'm a bit rusty on my sorc now because I haven't played on him since... like years, also delays are bit different now but it still is solid toon to play.

But love doesn't let you to choose, I'm still into my magblade

Iskiab

WacArnold wrote: »

A while ago i head nbs benifit more from wep damage than max stats this was on a stamblade though. Does this also translate to a magblade?

For example would you be better off going for damage mitigation through damage reduction, resists, and hots while stacking as much spell damage possible over max mag and relying on a shield?

Say if you were to use the new moon set, wizzards and troll king, maybe even brp restro run path and regen. Would that be better than using high max Mag sets for offensive and rely on harness as a defense?

Eso build editor did not have the new sets in last time i checked to see how much damage you would have from this , but not sure if that would even be enough defensive. See alot of nasty stam builds that would probably tear through wizzards no prob so idk.

Max mag works really well in no-CP because of the Siphoning passive and magicka boost from hitting 300 CPs. Mag is comparable to spell power for damage.

In no-CP spell power is better.

Mayrael wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

Yeah I think I'm done with this game, I'll come back when and if the performance patch works. Been playing destiny 2, came back to eso and it's like you go kinda numb to the lag. While you're playing alot you notice it less. Go play a different game and come back and it's just like wtf.

GL fellow blades

Yeah I play one BGs match every other day, down from 10+ matches a day.

The gameplay is stale with all the struggles thrown NBs way.

Cloak isn't even fun anymore when everything pulls you out of it - and to think there are still people who don't know how to counter it.

I think it’s because sorcs love going glass canon specs and relying on lots of mag for shield size for survivability. It works well if NBs are neutered and aren’t a threat, because NBs can jump them unprepared from stealth. There’s a whole thread about it on the other page about glass canon sorc specs.

I have a magsorc I mess around with sometimes. Chudan + Necro + BTB works really well. Still haven’t decided if I’ll switch mains, it’s a pain to do undaunted and tweak gear sets on a new character, and leveling skills is a pain. Cloak is fun though so I’ll miss it, but streak is so much better.

Yup, I've jumped on my sorc few days ago just to test some builds option and it's mind blowing how big the power difference is. My builds are pretty tanky so tooltips aren't very big but e.g. when my merciless has 16k tooltip unbuffed, on similar setup my frags had 12k tooltip without 33% damage increase from proc, curse and furry were just slightly lower, while my shields were around 9k each. This power difference is stunning.

Streak is better version of fear + shade. Furry is arguably the best execute in the game. Frags can be almost spammed.

No it's not a nerf post, but seriously, magblade feels so weak when compared to sorc. Yes magblade can work pretty well to, but our burst options are limited just to two skills, one is ultimate with cast time, second requires to do 5 LAs first while on sorc I can literally spam burst.

Yea I ageee. Funny thing is I think because sorcs have been overperforming for a while they haven’t put too much thought into theorycrafting.

Try this combo: time curse and rune cage to hit at the same time, have overload up, hit wrath 2 GCDs before they hit, hard cast frags to land when curse and rune hit. If you get a frag proc you can burst someone down pretty easily.

In practice it won’t be that easy and takes a bit of luck, but if you line it up it’s almost a guaranteed kill within 1 GCD. For tooltips you have:
20k damage - 2x Overload LA weaves
12k - Frags hard casted
15k - Frags proc
12k - wrath proc
10k - Curse
Stun lands to help a bit

I tried it in some BGs and landing curse makes it a bit more complicated but it’s not too bad.

Thing I don’t get is in PvE Magblades and Magsorcs do comparable dps. So theoretically magblades should have good ways to do damage too. I’m thinking it’s because of the crit modifier passive magblades get, so maybe there are some crit builds being overlooked for magblade.

I need to mess around more on my Khajit alt to check crit builds. Crit modifier is great if you stack enough of it.

For example, shadow plus Khajit gives a 103% crit modifier I think it is. 3k crit resists reduces it by 45%.

With the way crit mods and resists work you get increasing returns the more you invest into it. At 60% deducting 45% is huge and makes crits not very effective, having 75% vs 60 doubles your effective crit modifier bonus.

Well I was sorc main for long time, my usual combo especially before summerset (when cage was undodgeable also) was weave till frags proc, then furry, course, rune cage, frags and weave. When timed well curse, frags and rune cage droped at the same time due to delays causing people to take stunning amounts of damage, usually ending with furry proc thanks to additional weaves. I'm a bit rusty on my sorc now because I haven't played on him since... like years, also delays are bit different now but it still is solid toon to play.

But love doesn't let you to choose, I'm still into my magblade

Mayrael wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

Yeah I think I'm done with this game, I'll come back when and if the performance patch works. Been playing destiny 2, came back to eso and it's like you go kinda numb to the lag. While you're playing alot you notice it less. Go play a different game and come back and it's just like wtf.

GL fellow blades

Yeah I play one BGs match every other day, down from 10+ matches a day.

The gameplay is stale with all the struggles thrown NBs way.

Cloak isn't even fun anymore when everything pulls you out of it - and to think there are still people who don't know how to counter it.

I think it’s because sorcs love going glass canon specs and relying on lots of mag for shield size for survivability. It works well if NBs are neutered and aren’t a threat, because NBs can jump them unprepared from stealth. There’s a whole thread about it on the other page about glass canon sorc specs.

I have a magsorc I mess around with sometimes. Chudan + Necro + BTB works really well. Still haven’t decided if I’ll switch mains, it’s a pain to do undaunted and tweak gear sets on a new character, and leveling skills is a pain. Cloak is fun though so I’ll miss it, but streak is so much better.

Yup, I've jumped on my sorc few days ago just to test some builds option and it's mind blowing how big the power difference is. My builds are pretty tanky so tooltips aren't very big but e.g. when my merciless has 16k tooltip unbuffed, on similar setup my frags had 12k tooltip without 33% damage increase from proc, curse and furry were just slightly lower, while my shields were around 9k each. This power difference is stunning.

Streak is better version of fear + shade. Furry is arguably the best execute in the game. Frags can be almost spammed.

No it's not a nerf post, but seriously, magblade feels so weak when compared to sorc. Yes magblade can work pretty well to, but our burst options are limited just to two skills, one is ultimate with cast time, second requires to do 5 LAs first while on sorc I can literally spam burst.

Yea I ageee. Funny thing is I think because sorcs have been overperforming for a while they haven’t put too much thought into theorycrafting.

Try this combo: time curse and rune cage to hit at the same time, have overload up, hit wrath 2 GCDs before they hit, hard cast frags to land when curse and rune hit. If you get a frag proc you can burst someone down pretty easily.

In practice it won’t be that easy and takes a bit of luck, but if you line it up it’s almost a guaranteed kill within 1 GCD. For tooltips you have:
20k damage - 2x Overload LA weaves
12k - Frags hard casted
15k - Frags proc
12k - wrath proc
10k - Curse
Stun lands to help a bit

I tried it in some BGs and landing curse makes it a bit more complicated but it’s not too bad.

Thing I don’t get is in PvE Magblades and Magsorcs do comparable dps. So theoretically magblades should have good ways to do damage too. I’m thinking it’s because of the crit modifier passive magblades get, so maybe there are some crit builds being overlooked for magblade.

I need to mess around more on my Khajit alt to check crit builds. Crit modifier is great if you stack enough of it.

For example, shadow plus Khajit gives a 103% crit modifier I think it is. 3k crit resists reduces it by 45%.

With the way crit mods and resists work you get increasing returns the more you invest into it. At 60% deducting 45% is huge and makes crits not very effective, having 75% vs 60 doubles your effective crit modifier bonus.

Well I was sorc main for long time, my usual combo especially before summerset (when cage was undodgeable also) was weave till frags proc, then furry, course, rune cage, frags and weave. When timed well curse, frags and rune cage droped at the same time due to delays causing people to take stunning amounts of damage, usually ending with furry proc thanks to additional weaves. I'm a bit rusty on my sorc now because I haven't played on him since... like years, also delays are bit different now but it still is solid toon to play.

But love doesn't let you to choose, I'm still into my magblade

I know what you mean, I like the magblade esthetic better too. A Khajit with the shadow mundus in a pelinal build using onslaught from stealth is pretty fun, but it’s limited outside that combo.

Neloth

Iskiab wrote: »

I have a magsorc I mess around with sometimes. Chudan + Necro + BTB works really well. Still haven’t decided if I’ll switch mains, it’s a pain to do undaunted and tweak gear sets on a new character, and leveling skills is a pain. Cloak is fun though so I’ll miss it, but streak is so much better.

If you are quitting switching to sorc, can I have your stuff thread?

ExistingRug61

Iskiab wrote: »

WacArnold wrote: »

A while ago i head nbs benifit more from wep damage than max stats this was on a stamblade though. Does this also translate to a magblade?

For example would you be better off going for damage mitigation through damage reduction, resists, and hots while stacking as much spell damage possible over max mag and relying on a shield?

Say if you were to use the new moon set, wizzards and troll king, maybe even brp restro run path and regen. Would that be better than using high max Mag sets for offensive and rely on harness as a defense?

Eso build editor did not have the new sets in last time i checked to see how much damage you would have from this , but not sure if that would even be enough defensive. See alot of nasty stam builds that would probably tear through wizzards no prob so idk.

Max mag works really well in no-CP because of the Siphoning passive and magicka boost from hitting 300 CPs. Mag is comparable to spell power for damage.

In no-CP spell power is better.

I assume in the first sentence you mean CP (not no-CP). I agree in no-CP spell damage is definitely better, but even in CP its actually not clear cut depending on your build and where you play.

ie: Consider the (equivalent) spell damage you would get from one set line of spell damage or magicka, considering just common buffs/passives, so major sorcery boosting spell damage and CP + Undaunted + magicka flood passive boosting magicka.
(According to the builder CP boost is additive with other passive boosts)

Spell damage: 129 * (1 + 0.2) = 154.8 spell dam
Magicka: 1096 * (1 + 0.2 + 0.06 + 0.08) = 1468.64 mag ~ 1468.64/10.5 = 139.87 equivalent spell dam
So just with the common buffs spell damage is about 10% more

Ok so you could add inner light as well to get
Magicka: 1096 * (1 + 0.2 + 0.06 + 0.08 + 0.07) = 1545.36 mag ~ 1545.36/10.5 = 147.17 equivalent spell dam
So even with inner light, spell damage is still about 5% better
However, I can't think of any other ways to increase magicka beyond this (unless you have a groupmate running warhorn), and there are a still number of other buffs that could apply to spell damage depending on your situation, such as continuous attack, minor sorcery, and the master assassin passive. If any of these apply the spell damage becomes even better again.

So if all you care about is damage, spell damage is still most likely going to give you more, even in CP.
It really comes down to if you are after the other benefits of max magicka, such as shield strength (but this only applies to dampen/harness for magNB as healing ward scales with spell damage as well not just max mag) or simply having a bigger stat pool to keep using abilities before running out of magicka.

kaithuzar

Take a month or two off then come back. While I didn’t mess with Cyrodiil lag, I played some bg’s w/some buddies. We dominated & I kept up; it was pretty fun.
Still rocking my old 5L 2h, alessian & willows path both bars & did great.

The_Lex

kaithuzar wrote: »

Take a month or two off then come back. While I didn’t mess with Cyrodiil lag, I played some bg’s w/some buddies. We dominated & I kept up; it was pretty fun.
Still rocking my old 5L 2h, alessian & willows path both bars & did great.

I have a set up like that...DW front bar. It’s still pretty effective.

Langeston

Iskiab wrote: »

I need to mess around more on my Khajit alt to check crit builds. Crit modifier is great if you stack enough of it.

For example, shadow plus Khajit gives a 103% crit modifier I think it is. 3k crit resists reduces it by 45%.

With the way crit mods and resists work you get increasing returns the more you invest into it. At 60% deducting 45% is huge and makes crits not very effective, having 75% vs 60 doubles your effective crit modifier bonus.

I actually just recently built a Khajiit magblade specifically to do something like this, but I really haven't messed around with it much — I've basically been playing it like my Breton. Can you tell me more about this setup you are referring to?

Iskiab

Langeston wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

I need to mess around more on my Khajit alt to check crit builds. Crit modifier is great if you stack enough of it.

For example, shadow plus Khajit gives a 103% crit modifier I think it is. 3k crit resists reduces it by 45%.

With the way crit mods and resists work you get increasing returns the more you invest into it. At 60% deducting 45% is huge and makes crits not very effective, having 75% vs 60 doubles your effective crit modifier bonus.

I actually just recently built a Khajiit magblade specifically to do something like this, but I really haven't messed around with it much — I've basically been playing it like my Breton. Can you tell me more about this setup you are referring to?

Oh, I’ve mainly been using him for a build where I tried the shadow mundus, minor force as a cloakblade. Playing trying to get big burst from stealth.

I haven’t taken him for a spin in a while. I really want to try mother’s sorrow, balorgh and x. I’m not sure if crit is worth it though, crit modifier is good, but I’m not sure if you need a high crit rate to take advantage of the a big modifier; 5x light, major crit buff and Shadowy Disguise might be enough.

I’m sort of torn between multiple characters and not enough time to play them. I have stuff I want to do but am being indecisive. I don’t want to try a build and it not work.

Langeston

Iskiab wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

I need to mess around more on my Khajit alt to check crit builds. Crit modifier is great if you stack enough of it.

For example, shadow plus Khajit gives a 103% crit modifier I think it is. 3k crit resists reduces it by 45%.

With the way crit mods and resists work you get increasing returns the more you invest into it. At 60% deducting 45% is huge and makes crits not very effective, having 75% vs 60 doubles your effective crit modifier bonus.

I actually just recently built a Khajiit magblade specifically to do something like this, but I really haven't messed around with it much — I've basically been playing it like my Breton. Can you tell me more about this setup you are referring to?

Oh, I’ve mainly been using him for a build where I tried the shadow mundus, minor force as a cloakblade. Playing trying to get big burst from stealth.

I haven’t taken him for a spin in a while. I really want to try mother’s sorrow, balorgh and x. I’m not sure if crit is worth it though, crit modifier is good, but I’m not sure if you need a high crit rate to take advantage of the a big modifier; 5x light, major crit buff and Shadowy Disguise might be enough.

I’m sort of torn between multiple characters and not enough time to play them. I have stuff I want to do but am being indecisive. I don’t want to try a build and it not work.

I'm of the mind that Sorrow is kind of a waste of a set for a cloakblade, but that may be why I'm less than pleased with my sustained damage. My opener is RAT>Cloak>Infused Weapon>LA>Swallow Soul, and it takes off a hefty chunk right off the bat, but I have a hard time finishing tanky players, especially with how easily many of them seem to be able to heal.

I'm torn between high penetration & high crit. Right now I'm using Slimecraw with Bright Throat's/Spinner's/Lover on my Breton with decent results, but I've run the whole gamut. Bright Throat's/Torug's/Shadow is pretty nasty, and the 3 second cooldown on the enchant seems helpful for pressuring, but that setup is even worse with tanky players due to lack of penetration. Bright Throat's/Crafty Alfiq is a nice combo as well. (Bright Throat's is kind of a must for me, as my playstyle is pretty sustain-intensive.)

Stygian is a set that looked really nice at first (+20% damage with Magicka Abilities from cloak) but that would likely ruin my sustained damage. Nasty opener though.

In any case, nothing I've done seems to be able to bring my Magblade even to within spitting distance of my Magsorc, which is a real bummer because really don't like the sorc. Oh well, I guess I'll just cross my fingers that ZOS will get it's head out of it's a** & show MBs a little love next patch.

Heresyall

magnb is as strong as sorc if played correctly , cannot get a good build if your race is Khajit tho

Langeston

Heresyall wrote: »

magnb is as strong as sorc if played correctly , cannot get a good build if your race is Khajit tho

No it isn't. Before I changed the Magblade to a Khajiit it was a Dunmer & my Magsorc is an Altmer, so the races were comparable — and it wasn't even close. My Sorc did/does more damage & the skills are so much easier to use. I wouldn't mind the added difficulty if there was some kind of payoff for mastering them, but right now there isn't. You work harder for less damage.

ExistingRug61

Langeston wrote: »

I'm torn between high penetration & high crit. Right now I'm using Slimecraw with Bright Throat's/Spinner's/Lover on my Breton with decent results, but I've run the whole gamut. Bright Throat's/Torug's/Shadow is pretty nasty, and the 3 second cooldown on the enchant seems helpful for pressuring, but that setup is even worse with tanky players due to lack of penetration. Bright Throat's/Crafty Alfiq is a nice combo as well. (Bright Throat's is kind of a must for me, as my playstyle is pretty sustain-intensive.)

*Warning: long theorycrafting post*

I've been messing around with some options recently in the builder while waiting for the next update to drop fro console, and I find Bright Thorat's Boast to be a difficult set to work with. I can see the attraction as its 5th piece bonus is comparatively better than the standard set bonus (being worth around 3x a normal set 2-4 piece bonus, where the standard 5th piece is normally set at 2.3x). However the fact that you have to run a drink with it is actually a reasonably significant opportunity cost vs food.

The issue with having to use a drink is two fold:
1) Drinks normally include a regen bonus of some form. However, on food drink the ratio that you normally get regen:stat in is ~1:10, whereas from almost all other sources it is ~1.17:10 (ie 129:1096). So food/drink is actually the least efficient source of regen. (**Note: one thing food/drink regen does have going for it is that it is out of combat which is good for cloaking, so if that is important to you it may override this point)
2) For drinks that do provide stat instead of regen, these always provide a lesser amount than you would get from food, ie consider Spring Loaded Infusion vs Crown Tri-Food or even more so Bewitched Sugar Skulls. Again, this makes drinks less efficient in terms of getting stats than drink.

From what I can see, using Bright Throat + Drink generally results in less total value (ie: the amount of set lines worth) than another set + food, provided that you have another place where you can swap stat for regen on your build (ie: changing jewellery glyphs from spell damage to regen) as generally the set you change to has less regen than Bright Throat.

Some examples using the more common drink options I have seen used with Bright Throats Boast:
These all compare to Amberplasm and Sugar Skulls with some other things like jewellery and armour glyph changes to keep regens similar.

1) Bright Throats Boast + Witchmothers Potent Brew + Tri-stat armour glyphs + 2x Spell damage jewellery enchants.
Change to Amberplasm + Sugar Skulls + Magicka armour glyphs + 2 Magicka recovery jewellery enchants.
Net result (before passives/buffs):
Slight (-0.5k) health drop, slight mag gain (+0.3k), large stam gain (+2.2k), bonus health and stam regen (+462 and +250 respectively), equal magicka regen, less spell damage (~-220), increased spell crit (+833).
So the total damage is just slightly less as the spell crit and slight mag increase doesn't quite make up for the spell damage loss, but you get a whole lot of max stam and stam sustain plus health regen. point. Only downside is that now less to the mag regen is out of combat.

2) Bright Throats Boast + Disast. Bloody Mara + Tri-stat armour glyphs
Change to Amberplasm + Sugar Skulls + Magicka armour glyphs
Net result (before passives/buffs):
Some health (-2.4k) lost, some stam (+2.2k) gained, some Mag lost (-1.4k) but spell damage (+129) and crit (+833) gained and also gains stam regen (+250) with only very slight mag (-29) and health regen (-43) losses.
So its basically a straight trade of health for stam (which I prefer as I find Bloody Mara gives more health than needed), bonus stam regen (with others almost the same), and damage is higher as the spell damage and crit outweights the lost mag.

3) Bright Throats Boast + Spring Loaded Infusion
Change to Amberplasm + Sugar Skulls
Net result (before passives/buffs):
Slight health (+0.4k) and stam (+0.4k) gain, significant magicka loss (-2.7k). Gain spell damage (+129) and spell crit (+833). Mag regen slight loss (-29) but gain stam (+250) and health (+462) regens.
The final damage is about the same as spell damage and crit almost makes up for the mag loss, but gain regens and a it of off stats.

Note: in cases 1&2 the armour glyph change loses a bit of efficiency due to changing from Tri Glyphs back to magicka, this is more than outweighed by the gains from the sugar skulls vs WMPB. You could always choose to keep the tri glyphs but this sacrifices magicka (damage) for the off stats versus the starting

In all these cases its generally possible to keep the effective spell damage and mag regen similar, but gain free off stat.

The only example I have seen that there isn't an equivalent that can achieve the same regens and damage with extra off stat is @fred4's build. This is because his already has everything committed to regen so it isn't possible to make up for the regen loss of swapping from Bright Throat + Hissmir. The closest I could get was something like swapping
Breton + Bright Throats + Hissmir + Tri-stat armour glyphs + Steed
for
Khajit + Amberplasm + Sugar Skulls + Magicka armour glyphs + Atronach + add vampire
I haven't tried this in the builder but I think it would result in almost the same stam sustain, but trades slightly less mag regen, health regen, and 10% speed to gain something like 3.5k Health, 2k Mag, 3k Stam, some spell damage and crit chance, and the Khajit crit damage bonus. Which seems like a lot to gain but speed and mag sustain are key parts of that build, so it may not be worth it for his playstyle.

Iskiab

ExistingRug61 wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

I'm torn between high penetration & high crit. Right now I'm using Slimecraw with Bright Throat's/Spinner's/Lover on my Breton with decent results, but I've run the whole gamut. Bright Throat's/Torug's/Shadow is pretty nasty, and the 3 second cooldown on the enchant seems helpful for pressuring, but that setup is even worse with tanky players due to lack of penetration. Bright Throat's/Crafty Alfiq is a nice combo as well. (Bright Throat's is kind of a must for me, as my playstyle is pretty sustain-intensive.)

*Warning: long theorycrafting post*

I've been messing around with some options recently in the builder while waiting for the next update to drop fro console, and I find Bright Thorat's Boast to be a difficult set to work with. I can see the attraction as its 5th piece bonus is comparatively better than the standard set bonus (being worth around 2.8x a normal set 2-4 piece bonus, where the standard 5th piece is normally set at 2.3x). However the fact that you have to run a drink with it is actually a reasonably significant opportunity cost vs food.

The issue with having to use a drink is two fold:
1) Drinks normally include a regen bonus of some form. However, on food drink the ratio that you normally get regen:stat in is ~1:10, whereas from almost all other sources it is ~1.17:10 (ie 129:1096). So food/drink is actually the least efficient source of regen. (**Note: one thing food/drink regen does have going for it is that it is out of combat which is good for cloaking, so if that is important to you it may override this point)
2) For drinks that do provide stat instead of regen, these always provide a lesser amount than you would get from food, ie consider Spring Loaded Infusion vs Crown Tri-Food or even more so Bewitched Sugar Skulls. Again, this makes drinks less efficient in terms of getting stats than drink.

From what I can see, using Bright Throat + Drink generally results in less total value (ie: the amount of set lines worth) than another set + food, provided that you have another place where you can swap stat for regen on your build (ie: changing jewellery glyphs from spell damage to regen) as generally the set you change to has less regen than Bright Throat.

Some examples using the more common drink options I have seen used with Bright Throats Boast:
These all compare to Amberplasm and Sugar Skulls with some other things like jewellery and armour glyph changes to keep regens similar.

1) Bright Throats Boast + Witchmothers Potent Brew + Tri-stat armour glyphs + 2x Spell damage jewellery enchants.
Change to Amberplasm + Sugar Skulls + Magicka armour glyphs + 2 Magicka recovery jewellery enchants.
Net result (before passives/buffs):
Slight (-0.5k) health drop, slight mag gain (+0.3k), large stam gain (+2.2k), bonus health and stam regen (+462 and +250 respectively), equal magicka regen, less spell damage (~-220), increased spell crit (+833).
So the total damage is just slightly less as the spell crit and slight mag increase doesn't quite make up for the spell damage loss, but you get a whole lot of max stam and stam sustain plus health regen. point. Only downside is that now less to the mag regen is out of combat.

2) Bright Throats Boast + Disast. Bloody Mara + Tri-stat armour glyphs
Change to Amberplasm + Sugar Skulls + Magicka armour glyphs
Net result (before passives/buffs):
Some health (-2.4k) lost, some stam (+2.2k) gained, some Mag lost (-1.4k) but spell damage (+129) and crit (+833) gained and also gains stam regen (+250) with only very slight mag (-29) and health regen (-43) losses.
So its basically a straight trade of health for stam (which I prefer as I find Bloody Mara gives more health than needed), bonus stam regen (with others almost the same), and damage is higher as the spell damage and crit outweights the lost mag.

3) Bright Throats Boast + Spring Loaded Infusion
Change to Amberplasm + Sugar Skulls
Net result (before passives/buffs):
Slight health (+0.4k) and stam (+0.4k) gain, significant magicka loss (-2.7k). Gain spell damage (+129) and spell crit (+833). Mag regen slight loss (-29) but gain stam (+250) and health (+462) regens.
The final damage is about the same as spell damage and crit almost makes up for the mag loss, but gain regens and a it of off stats.

Note: in cases 1&2 the armour glyph change loses a bit of efficiency due to changing from Tri Glyphs back to magicka, this is more than outweighed by the gains from the sugar skulls vs WMPB. You could always choose to keep the tri glyphs but this sacrifices magicka (damage) for the off stats versus the starting

In all these cases its generally possible to keep the effective spell damage and mag regen similar, but gain free off stat.

The only example I have seen that there isn't an equivalent that can achieve the same regens and damage with extra off stat is @fred4's build. This is because his already has everything committed to regen so it isn't possible to make up for the regen loss of swapping from Bright Throat + Hissmir. The closest I could get was something like swapping
Breton + Bright Throats + Hissmir + Tri-stat armour glyphs + Steed
for
Khajit + Amberplasm + Sugar Skulls + Magicka armour glyphs + Atronach + add vampire
I haven't tried this in the builder but I think it would result in almost the same stam sustain, but trades slightly less mag regen, health regen, and 10% speed to gain something like 3.5k Health, 2k Mag, 3k Stam, some spell damage and crit chance, and the Khajit crit damage bonus. Which seems like a lot to gain but speed and mag sustain are key parts of that build, so it may not be worth it for his playstyle.

That’s interesting, I’ll look into it.

I used to use BTB in a lot of builds, but now just use it in one. Issue for me is moreso it’s difficult to hit the magblade benchmarks and have decent damage stats.

I go for 25k health and 2.4k mag regen. Once I have that I mess around trying to get the best stats possible.

I’ve found at least 2.4k mag regen to be required. It looks to me like magblade skills are more expensive then other classes, and while in PvE sustain and damage being tied to light attacks is fine, in pvp you never get the full value of those abilities that you would on paper.

The issues I see with magblade:
1. Poor self healing
2. Poor sustain (abilities are too expensive)
3. Dependent on light attacks (does not work well in pvp)
4. Utility split amongst too many different abilities. Sustain issues combined with it being hard to fit Ele drain in your build isn’t a good combination
5. No delayed damage ability to help with burst

P.S. - yea, amber plasm does give you a nice stat spread. I put something together quickly and it looks decent, just has low pen. I wanted to use an infused oblivion enchantment but less then 10k pen looked really bad to me.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=188555

I'm still not sure about the front bar. I'd like RAT, ele drain or elemental weapon on there but am not sure how to make it fit. Issue is I need a siphoning ability on my front bar and want to pair concealed with cloak for the speed. I don't think Caluurion can crit so maybe I need to decide between crit or caluurion.

Heresyall

Amberplasm would be good if bloodspawn wasn’t meta , running 1.2 stam rec in cp is totally useless ( even more if you use Tristat pots and since they added Snare immune to rat) it’s just better to get more mag and dmg/health by disastrous bloody Mara + btb

Langeston

Heresyall wrote: »

Amberplasm would be good if bloodspawn wasn’t meta , running 1.2 stam rec in cp is totally useless ( even more if you use Tristat pots and since they added Snare immune to rat) it’s just better to get more mag and dmg/health by disastrous bloody Mara + btb

This is something I never understood: how could Bloodspawn be "meta," especially for a magblade? I don't even find it to be a particularly good set, let alone the best. (Unless you're building for tankiness & don't use cloak, in which case disregard.) You have to already be able to withstand a good amount of punishment just to be able to get it to proc, and using cloak as a defensive mechanic basically cripples the set's up time. What am I missing?

Iskiab

Langeston wrote: »

Heresyall wrote: »

Amberplasm would be good if bloodspawn wasn’t meta , running 1.2 stam rec in cp is totally useless ( even more if you use Tristat pots and since they added Snare immune to rat) it’s just better to get more mag and dmg/health by disastrous bloody Mara + btb

This is something I never understood: how could Bloodspawn be "meta," especially for a magblade? I don't even find it to be a particularly good set, let alone the best. (Unless you're building for tankiness & don't use cloak, in which case disregard.) You have to already be able to withstand a good amount of punishment just to be able to get it to proc, and using cloak as a defensive mechanic basically cripples the set's up time. What am I missing?

Nothing, I switched to blood spawn after the pirate smelly nerf and had a rough go. After checking CMX the most you can hope for is 40% or so uptime.

I prefer two 1 piece armour sets now.