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MagBlade Theorycrafting Changes Thread

  • HaruKamui
    HaruKamui
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Pijng wrote: »
    CP distribution request

    Hey guys, I've been playing no-cp for my whole eso "career". But a few days back I was signed up for some duel tournament and realised I don't have a clue on how to distribute my cps for pvp and especially for duels.

    I'm running this build rn and I'll definitely use it on duels – https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=180530

    Can I ask for help? :) Despite it would be perfect to get help for the whole distribution (don't get your hopes up), it'd be awesome to receive some hints/general advices as well so I can start with something rather than a blank sheet.

    Thanks in advance <3

    I'd replace the monster set with an offensive one. I'd also use willpower front bar since lich procs even just on the backbar. Also, always alot CP such that they are closest to full numbers. CPs get round down so 19.89% is the same as 19%.


    As for the CPs get around 2.8k crit resist, around 40 thick skinned and Ironclad, around 32 hardy and ele def. Expert Defender as well

    Master at arms aim for 64 or greater, staff expertin the 30s, 7 in blessed, get around 40 to 60s of elfborn, ele expert, and spell erosion,

    Get befouled to as high as you can while having decent spread for magicka recovery. best way to help with stam management as a mag toon is not with stam recovery CP but with cost reduction CPs of breakfree (gonna do this a lot in duels put in a lot), roll dodge, and block.


    As a general tip, CPs have diminishing returns (pumping 100 points into one stat is almost never worth it), so a good idea to get a feel for your CP allotment is to spread them around the 30 to 70 range.

    Edited by HaruKamui on October 15, 2019 1:21PM
    A trickster; both light and dark, heroic and villainous, foolish and wise.

    EP Hit Squad
    Haru Kamui - Dunmer Magicka Nightblade
    Haru Homura - Breton Magicka Templar
    Haru Yuuto - Dunmer Stamina Sorcerer

    #GiveMagbladesSnareRemoval <--- Getting some form of this in Elsweyr, sweet!
  • GhostofDatthaw
    GhostofDatthaw
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Idk about that build man, I haven't dueled seriously in like over a year but you are going to be up against alot of Templars and dks. Imo you should run btb and necro or spinners with bs monster, you are going to need a shield, and hots to deal with the dots. Btb just because the stam, and then clever alch is a good damage set but I personally don't like it, I would suggest swapping it. You need light armor for the shield the and the pen otherwise these serious duel builds will melt you, and you will not dent them. The thing about magnb dueling is control the fight, once they gain control you lost. Keep you shade up and kite kite kite. I would also drop the fear for clench because it is better in duels imo and allows for nice ranged bow lands.
    Edited by GhostofDatthaw on October 15, 2019 3:06PM
  • fred4
    fred4
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Pijng wrote: »
    CP distribution request

    Hey guys, I've been playing no-cp for my whole eso "career". But a few days back I was signed up for some duel tournament and realised I don't have a clue on how to distribute my cps for pvp and especially for duels.

    I'm running this build rn and I'll definitely use it on duels – https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=180530

    Can I ask for help? :) Despite it would be perfect to get help for the whole distribution (don't get your hopes up), it'd be awesome to receive some hints/general advices as well so I can start with something rather than a blank sheet.

    Thanks in advance <3
    I play open world CP. By all means take a look at my current build:

    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=183610

    (1) Read up on CP jump points. It's not enough to know that they are rounded down. Look up the exact tables at an established site, such as Alcast's.

    (2) I concur on 3K Impen, or close to it. You get there with Impenetrable gear traits + Resistant CP in the Steed tree. I tend to always run 66 Ironclad against burst, such as Dizzy, plus 54 Resistant. This gets you to 3K Impen and unlocks the last passive in that tree, the little block shield, which would incidentally stack with the Psijic block shield, if you were using that.

    (3) Avoid Medium / Light / Heavy Armor Focus and Spell Shield. Those CP are inefficient. In general I only put leftover points into those. They DO become somewhat more efficient when you run a higher resistance build, e.g. a heavy armor build, such as yourself. Still I wouldn't put more than about 10 points into Heavy Armor Focus and Spell Shield. I did the math on that once. Also, with Onslaught prevalence, you are arguably better off focusing on Hardy / Ele Defender and leaving Armor Focus and Spell Shield at zero.

    (4) Seeing as you don't run shields, you can avoid Bastion and go heavier into the Lady tree than me. The reason Hardy and Elemental Defender are unbalanced in my build is because I am a Breton. In your case, keep them balanced. Possibly as much as 49 Hardy, 49 Ele Defender and 40 Thick Skinned. I get away with less Thick Skinned, since Shadowy suppresses DOTs.

    (5) Befoul is important when using Soul Harvest. I put 39. You have to check at what points this actually bumps up the Soul Harvest Major Defile tooltip, so this is about more than checking general CP jump points, but also Soul Harvest Defile jump points.

    (6) The reason I go so heavily into the Lover tree is that I like the Windrunning passive. As a heavy armor build with no stamina and health regen to speak of, I would NOT aim for that. Leave Mooncalf and Healthy at zero, but invest decently, maybe 56 points, into Arcanist, and some - maybe 19 - into Tenacity.

    (7) 56 into Warlord, 56 into Shadow Ward as a heavy armor build. The split between Shadow Ward (blocking) and Tumbling (dodge rolling) really depends on your playstyle, though. With your low stam regen, I'd favor blocking over dodge rolling. The rest of the green trees is up to you.

    (8) The main mag-build damage tree is the Apprentice. Ele Expert 49 and Elfborn 56 is pretty standard for me. This stacks with the 66 from Master-at-Arms in the Atro tree. You want to push that to 66 to get the most out of Assassin's Will. With just one DOT, Thaumaturge is probably OK at 40, like me. Spell Erosion could be pushed a little higher than me. In theory, the math says the points can be pretty evenly spread between Ele Expert, Master-at-Arms and Spell Erosion for best results. With your low crit, you can afford to take points out of Elfborn and spread them elsewhere, compared to me.

    (9) Some people pay attention to the Tactician and Exploiter passives. Perhaps not so much Tactician, but Exploiter on a mag build. This would fit in with a build that had more DOTs and some way to proc off balance.
    PC EU, Stamina DK (EP), Magicka NB (EP), Magicka Warden (EP), Magicka Templar (EP). Occasionally: Stamina Templar (EP), Stamina NB (AD), Stamina Sorcerer (DC)
  • Pijng
    Pijng
    ✭✭✭
    Jeez, thanks a lot to you guys. I'll try this out, hope I'll find my golden spot.
  • HaruKamui
    HaruKamui
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Pijng wrote: »
    Jeez, thanks a lot to you guys. I'll try this out, hope I'll find my golden spot.

    Don't stress too much about it though. As long as the spread is decent, go ahead and duel/play/practice. CPs don't make a great player.
    A trickster; both light and dark, heroic and villainous, foolish and wise.

    EP Hit Squad
    Haru Kamui - Dunmer Magicka Nightblade
    Haru Homura - Breton Magicka Templar
    Haru Yuuto - Dunmer Stamina Sorcerer

    #GiveMagbladesSnareRemoval <--- Getting some form of this in Elsweyr, sweet!
  • HaruKamui
    HaruKamui
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Love the buff grim focus is gonna get. The removal of the travel time makes it so much easier to hit after fear. Lots of people gonna complain about this in the future I bet.

    I'll take it and keep using it until the skill gets nerfed again lol
    A trickster; both light and dark, heroic and villainous, foolish and wise.

    EP Hit Squad
    Haru Kamui - Dunmer Magicka Nightblade
    Haru Homura - Breton Magicka Templar
    Haru Yuuto - Dunmer Stamina Sorcerer

    #GiveMagbladesSnareRemoval <--- Getting some form of this in Elsweyr, sweet!
  • GhostofDatthaw
    GhostofDatthaw
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yeah it's a nice buff. Already has a flame thread in pts
  • fred4
    fred4
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    HaruKamui wrote: »
    Pijng wrote: »
    Jeez, thanks a lot to you guys. I'll try this out, hope I'll find my golden spot.

    Don't stress too much about it though. As long as the spread is decent, go ahead and duel/play/practice. CPs don't make a great player.
    Yes and no. I play the same character on PC NA as on PC EU. On EU I am CP810+. Templar Jabs have crit me for 2.1K, maybe 2.2K at the most. On PC NA I was around CP350 when Jabs crit me for 2.9K in one case. I have NEVER been hit for anywhere near that high on PC EU. That's one hell of a difference. Same gear, same build. The only difference was CP.

    Also: Ever played in no CP IC and soloed some of the bosses there? Big, big difference. Imperial Physique + something like Fortified Brass is almost a must. Sure, if you are really good at PvE you can probably still nuke them efficiently, but in order to feel the same level of comfort as in squishy gear, in CP, you have to go quite tanky and high-stat in no CP.

    I cannot say what happens when you don't know much about CP and do them only roughly right. I can tell you that CP make a big, big difference compared to using none at all or only having half CP. Extreme mistakes, like sinking all red CP into Heavy Armor Focus and Spell Shield, would also be disastrous.

    You are correct that gameplay is most important, however I have looked at enough combat logs to know that in a direct 1v1, were you not leaning on Cloak and Shade, other classes can have a huge damage and defense advantage over magblade. I hit a stamplar for 5K Caluu + 2.4K Soul Harvest. That's my burst. He hits me with 1.5K per individual jab, 2K when they crit. As a melee magblade, that's an impossible fight. Add a Burning Light proc and his spammable is the same as my burst.

    The game is hugely imbalanced in specific matchups. IMO Pijng was correct to ask.

    Some further examples. I struggled to complete vMA on my low CP NA character. It took some experiments before I settled on Julianos + Bright Throat + 2x resistance monster pieces (Pirate + Lord Warden). The extra resistance, combined with 2x damage sets clinched it. It flipped the last round from being forced into defense and losing into being able to stay on offense and winning. I have long observed the same in PvP. There comes a point, if you push and push and push for damage (which you must) where your offensive window shrinks to nothing and your effectiveness collapses. The better you understand CP, the more can you take your character to the point just before that happens.

    Khyleo has a duelling tournament video on YouTube that I watched some time ago. He had ruled out a huge amount of skills he deemed unbalanced. A nightblade dominated the early rounds until it ran into the mag DK who won the tournament. The power-shift was very palpable. This had nothing to do with l2p. The nightblade did everything it could, including relentless use of the shade, which it had to, as it was forced into defense by the better offensive / defensive ratio of the DK in that matchup. IMO you need all the edge you can get, because you will run into builds that utterly outclass you in specific 1v1s. I can't remember whether this was before or after the wings change. I have a feeling wings were banned and the DK still thrashed the NB.
    Edited by fred4 on October 16, 2019 10:53PM
    PC EU, Stamina DK (EP), Magicka NB (EP), Magicka Warden (EP), Magicka Templar (EP). Occasionally: Stamina Templar (EP), Stamina NB (AD), Stamina Sorcerer (DC)
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Those dueling tournaments are actually a good tutorial. The rules that is, basicly look at what’s barred from duels and use those in solo play outside duels. Profit.
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • HaruKamui
    HaruKamui
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    fred4 wrote: »
    HaruKamui wrote: »
    Pijng wrote: »
    Jeez, thanks a lot to you guys. I'll try this out, hope I'll find my golden spot.

    Don't stress too much about it though. As long as the spread is decent, go ahead and duel/play/practice. CPs don't make a great player.
    Yes and no. I play the same character on PC NA as on PC EU. On EU I am CP810+. Templar Jabs have crit me for 2.1K, maybe 2.2K at the most. On PC NA I was around CP350 when Jabs crit me for 2.9K in one case. I have NEVER been hit for anywhere near that high on PC EU. That's one hell of a difference. Same gear, same build. The only difference was CP.

    I didnt mean that CPs didnt matter. I said, as long as the CP spread is okay, you'll do fine as long as you practice your character.

    Never did I say that a CP 300 is not at a disadvantage against a CP810, check my comment again xD
    A trickster; both light and dark, heroic and villainous, foolish and wise.

    EP Hit Squad
    Haru Kamui - Dunmer Magicka Nightblade
    Haru Homura - Breton Magicka Templar
    Haru Yuuto - Dunmer Stamina Sorcerer

    #GiveMagbladesSnareRemoval <--- Getting some form of this in Elsweyr, sweet!
  • fred4
    fred4
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    HaruKamui wrote: »
    fred4 wrote: »
    HaruKamui wrote: »
    Pijng wrote: »
    Jeez, thanks a lot to you guys. I'll try this out, hope I'll find my golden spot.

    Don't stress too much about it though. As long as the spread is decent, go ahead and duel/play/practice. CPs don't make a great player.
    Yes and no. I play the same character on PC NA as on PC EU. On EU I am CP810+. Templar Jabs have crit me for 2.1K, maybe 2.2K at the most. On PC NA I was around CP350 when Jabs crit me for 2.9K in one case. I have NEVER been hit for anywhere near that high on PC EU. That's one hell of a difference. Same gear, same build. The only difference was CP.

    I didnt mean that CPs didnt matter. I said, as long as the CP spread is okay, you'll do fine as long as you practice your character.

    Never did I say that a CP 300 is not at a disadvantage against a CP810, check my comment again xD
    Sorry, I knew you'd say that and you are right. I used your post as a springboard to go off on various tangents and, in doing so, I misrepresented what you said. Sorry.

    That said, I do think practice / experience / gameplay is equally important to overall buildcraft (of which CP is a part) or maybe 60% practice, 40% buildcraft. When a noob hits me like a wet noodle, it's often the case that they can't string together a proper burst. On the other hand I also notice a huge variation, from player to player, in the damage numbers of individual attacks that I take from them and that I dish out to them. It's to the point where I sometimes don't know how people do it, when I look at combat logs. Some are flat out tanky, no healing, no blocking, yet they dish out huge damage. No I'm not talking about Corrosive Armor or Onslaught. I'd recognise that. It could simply be Fury, but all in all I am convinced there are still things I don't know about. Possibly bugs and exploits, like allocating your CP in a certain order, and so on.

    I CAN pass on the things I do know about. I terms of CP I would particularly stress staying away from the Armor Focus and Spell Shield points, certainly while Onslaught and Corrosive are in common use. The Exploiter passive is another one of those quite strong things that some people integrate into their playstyles.
    Edited by fred4 on October 17, 2019 3:59PM
    PC EU, Stamina DK (EP), Magicka NB (EP), Magicka Warden (EP), Magicka Templar (EP). Occasionally: Stamina Templar (EP), Stamina NB (AD), Stamina Sorcerer (DC)
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    fred4 wrote: »
    HaruKamui wrote: »
    fred4 wrote: »
    HaruKamui wrote: »
    Pijng wrote: »
    Jeez, thanks a lot to you guys. I'll try this out, hope I'll find my golden spot.

    Don't stress too much about it though. As long as the spread is decent, go ahead and duel/play/practice. CPs don't make a great player.
    Yes and no. I play the same character on PC NA as on PC EU. On EU I am CP810+. Templar Jabs have crit me for 2.1K, maybe 2.2K at the most. On PC NA I was around CP350 when Jabs crit me for 2.9K in one case. I have NEVER been hit for anywhere near that high on PC EU. That's one hell of a difference. Same gear, same build. The only difference was CP.

    I didnt mean that CPs didnt matter. I said, as long as the CP spread is okay, you'll do fine as long as you practice your character.

    Never did I say that a CP 300 is not at a disadvantage against a CP810, check my comment again xD
    Sorry, I knew you'd say that and you are right. I used your post as a springboard to go off on various tangents and, in doing so, I misrepresented what you said. Sorry.

    That said, I do think practice / experience / gameplay is equally important to overall buildcraft (of which CP is a part) or maybe 60% practice, 40% buildcraft. When a noob hits me like a wet noodle, it's often the case that they can't string together a proper burst. On the other hand I also notice a huge variation, from player to player, in the damage numbers of individual attacks that I take from them and that I dish out to them. It's to the point where I sometimes don't know how people do it, when I look at combat logs. Some are flat out tanky, no healing, no blocking, yet they dish out huge damage. No I'm not talking about Corrosive Armor or Onslaught. I'd recognise that. It could simply be Fury, but all in all I am convinced there are still things I don't know about. Possibly bugs and exploits, like allocating your CP in a certain order, and so on.

    I CAN pass on the things I do know about. I terms of CP I would particularly stress staying away from the Armor Focus and Spell Shield points, certainly while Onslaught and Corrosive are in common use. The Exploiter passive is another one of those quite strong things that some people integrate into their playstyles.

    The difference is crit I think. It’s often overlooked and a lot of builds in heavy have next to zero crit. There are always players around trying to skimp on crit resists to take advantage of making crit builds good.

    Proc sets is the other. Things like clever alchemist on one bar and only going on offensive cycles when the buff’s up.

    The other thing is going max stats. Defense has been repeatedly nerfed, a lot of times max stats will get you more incoming healing then defense will prevent.

    Lastly cleanse. If there’s a healer using cleanse your average pvp spec using dots has zero chance at killing anyone.
    Edited by Iskiab on October 17, 2019 4:07PM
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • darkblue5
    darkblue5
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Iskiab wrote: »
    Yeah, I've got a background in cs and game development so I understand your argument, and agree with your premise. The claim seems to have always been that it was the expanded complexity of the systems like the spammed skills (healing springs) or the assets (the deer) or the proc sets that have been the culprits behind the increasing latency issues. Not sure if the lighting engine change really is a factor tbh. The game has no doubt seen the introduction of many more and varied items, skills and abilities plus the CP system. I would rather they lock down their design and then work on the internals, architecture and netcode. Although if the DDOS service issue with their current choice is true, then that might not matter. I haven't really looked into that very much. And I have been out of the industry for a while so take my opinion for what it is worth. :)

    Edit: Plus I really think a lot of the problems with open world prime time Cyrodiil are due to how they have laid the map out an channeled players to certain keeps. They need to rethink the geography and keep the 3 way dynamic while still spreading out the player density. Things like the hammer are a good start but even that often concentrates players instead of opening up the map. It could really use some tuning.

    I'm a knuckle dragger when it comes to coding, but it terms on cyro pop and objectives, it's the way people play now that can be a problem. When I started and people actually cared about the map and campaign. There were alot of guilds running 10-20 man groups. They worked together pushing different objectives and in turn split the defense across the map out of necessity. Now it's just "faction stack zergling" and "pompous small man". Guilds died and cyro with it

    I don’t agree with the faction stack zergling thing.

    It’s a matter of perspective. It’s the most common complaint about my guild (Homicide) but it’s mainly because we’re effective so we’re winning.

    We did very well in the non-CP campaign so guilds stopped coming, and so we dabbled in the CP campaign because there was no one left to fight. We’ve only been in there once but our strategy is just as effective there so it was business as usual.

    Mostly complaints stem from losing and people not adapting to the game. People play with their friends and naturally become elitist over time, then with normal attrition they get stuck in smaller and smaller groups until they’re irrelevant. All we basicly do is give new players a chance to get better and play with them, so naturally get stronger.

    Most complaints are from people having their ego put in check which is wrapped up in their performance. It comes down to ‘I lost’ and making excuses (they had more, lag, game changes, class, etc..). Plus accepting new players means less food for the small scale players who prey on new players which can’t make them happy.

    Odd
    fred4 wrote: »
    HaruKamui wrote: »
    fred4 wrote: »
    HaruKamui wrote: »
    Pijng wrote: »
    Jeez, thanks a lot to you guys. I'll try this out, hope I'll find my golden spot.

    Don't stress too much about it though. As long as the spread is decent, go ahead and duel/play/practice. CPs don't make a great player.
    Yes and no. I play the same character on PC NA as on PC EU. On EU I am CP810+. Templar Jabs have crit me for 2.1K, maybe 2.2K at the most. On PC NA I was around CP350 when Jabs crit me for 2.9K in one case. I have NEVER been hit for anywhere near that high on PC EU. That's one hell of a difference. Same gear, same build. The only difference was CP.

    I didnt mean that CPs didnt matter. I said, as long as the CP spread is okay, you'll do fine as long as you practice your character.

    Never did I say that a CP 300 is not at a disadvantage against a CP810, check my comment again xD
    Sorry, I knew you'd say that and you are right. I used your post as a springboard to go off on various tangents and, in doing so, I misrepresented what you said. Sorry.

    That said, I do think practice / experience / gameplay is equally important to overall buildcraft (of which CP is a part) or maybe 60% practice, 40% buildcraft. When a noob hits me like a wet noodle, it's often the case that they can't string together a proper burst. On the other hand I also notice a huge variation, from player to player, in the damage numbers of individual attacks that I take from them and that I dish out to them. It's to the point where I sometimes don't know how people do it, when I look at combat logs. Some are flat out tanky, no healing, no blocking, yet they dish out huge damage. No I'm not talking about Corrosive Armor or Onslaught. I'd recognise that. It could simply be Fury, but all in all I am convinced there are still things I don't know about. Possibly bugs and exploits, like allocating your CP in a certain order, and so on.

    I CAN pass on the things I do know about. I terms of CP I would particularly stress staying away from the Armor Focus and Spell Shield points, certainly while Onslaught and Corrosive are in common use. The Exploiter passive is another one of those quite strong things that some people integrate into their playstyles.

    I'm 90% sure a lot of the cases of very tanky enemies not healing or blocking etc. are using the Lingering Health potions. The resistance potions (if they aren't nerfed) will likely be Dragonhold's version of the Lingering Health potions. I can say that there is a night and day difference between when I still had Lingering Health potions I decided to finally use and now that I've run out and don't exactly want to make more.

    Lingering Health potions make me want to run sets like Robes of the Hist, Barkskin, and Alessian Order next patch... although the charm of the Lingering Health pots is that you don't need to dedicate a five piece to being very tanky from HoTs.
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    darkblue5 wrote: »
    Iskiab wrote: »
    Yeah, I've got a background in cs and game development so I understand your argument, and agree with your premise. The claim seems to have always been that it was the expanded complexity of the systems like the spammed skills (healing springs) or the assets (the deer) or the proc sets that have been the culprits behind the increasing latency issues. Not sure if the lighting engine change really is a factor tbh. The game has no doubt seen the introduction of many more and varied items, skills and abilities plus the CP system. I would rather they lock down their design and then work on the internals, architecture and netcode. Although if the DDOS service issue with their current choice is true, then that might not matter. I haven't really looked into that very much. And I have been out of the industry for a while so take my opinion for what it is worth. :)

    Edit: Plus I really think a lot of the problems with open world prime time Cyrodiil are due to how they have laid the map out an channeled players to certain keeps. They need to rethink the geography and keep the 3 way dynamic while still spreading out the player density. Things like the hammer are a good start but even that often concentrates players instead of opening up the map. It could really use some tuning.

    I'm a knuckle dragger when it comes to coding, but it terms on cyro pop and objectives, it's the way people play now that can be a problem. When I started and people actually cared about the map and campaign. There were alot of guilds running 10-20 man groups. They worked together pushing different objectives and in turn split the defense across the map out of necessity. Now it's just "faction stack zergling" and "pompous small man". Guilds died and cyro with it

    I don’t agree with the faction stack zergling thing.

    It’s a matter of perspective. It’s the most common complaint about my guild (Homicide) but it’s mainly because we’re effective so we’re winning.

    We did very well in the non-CP campaign so guilds stopped coming, and so we dabbled in the CP campaign because there was no one left to fight. We’ve only been in there once but our strategy is just as effective there so it was business as usual.

    Mostly complaints stem from losing and people not adapting to the game. People play with their friends and naturally become elitist over time, then with normal attrition they get stuck in smaller and smaller groups until they’re irrelevant. All we basicly do is give new players a chance to get better and play with them, so naturally get stronger.

    Most complaints are from people having their ego put in check which is wrapped up in their performance. It comes down to ‘I lost’ and making excuses (they had more, lag, game changes, class, etc..). Plus accepting new players means less food for the small scale players who prey on new players which can’t make them happy.

    Odd
    fred4 wrote: »
    HaruKamui wrote: »
    fred4 wrote: »
    HaruKamui wrote: »
    Pijng wrote: »
    Jeez, thanks a lot to you guys. I'll try this out, hope I'll find my golden spot.

    Don't stress too much about it though. As long as the spread is decent, go ahead and duel/play/practice. CPs don't make a great player.
    Yes and no. I play the same character on PC NA as on PC EU. On EU I am CP810+. Templar Jabs have crit me for 2.1K, maybe 2.2K at the most. On PC NA I was around CP350 when Jabs crit me for 2.9K in one case. I have NEVER been hit for anywhere near that high on PC EU. That's one hell of a difference. Same gear, same build. The only difference was CP.

    I didnt mean that CPs didnt matter. I said, as long as the CP spread is okay, you'll do fine as long as you practice your character.

    Never did I say that a CP 300 is not at a disadvantage against a CP810, check my comment again xD
    Sorry, I knew you'd say that and you are right. I used your post as a springboard to go off on various tangents and, in doing so, I misrepresented what you said. Sorry.

    That said, I do think practice / experience / gameplay is equally important to overall buildcraft (of which CP is a part) or maybe 60% practice, 40% buildcraft. When a noob hits me like a wet noodle, it's often the case that they can't string together a proper burst. On the other hand I also notice a huge variation, from player to player, in the damage numbers of individual attacks that I take from them and that I dish out to them. It's to the point where I sometimes don't know how people do it, when I look at combat logs. Some are flat out tanky, no healing, no blocking, yet they dish out huge damage. No I'm not talking about Corrosive Armor or Onslaught. I'd recognise that. It could simply be Fury, but all in all I am convinced there are still things I don't know about. Possibly bugs and exploits, like allocating your CP in a certain order, and so on.

    I CAN pass on the things I do know about. I terms of CP I would particularly stress staying away from the Armor Focus and Spell Shield points, certainly while Onslaught and Corrosive are in common use. The Exploiter passive is another one of those quite strong things that some people integrate into their playstyles.

    I'm 90% sure a lot of the cases of very tanky enemies not healing or blocking etc. are using the Lingering Health potions. The resistance potions (if they aren't nerfed) will likely be Dragonhold's version of the Lingering Health potions. I can say that there is a night and day difference between when I still had Lingering Health potions I decided to finally use and now that I've run out and don't exactly want to make more.

    Lingering Health potions make me want to run sets like Robes of the Hist, Barkskin, and Alessian Order next patch... although the charm of the Lingering Health pots is that you don't need to dedicate a five piece to being very tanky from HoTs.

    I can’t remember what I was replying to, but sounds about right.

    We have CP 400s in guild who’re still learning and gearing up. Most established guilds in CP land have a 810 CP requirement. ESO is a complicated game and the difference is output between players can be staggering. When a guild first forms it’ll be a group who learns together, then as people leave they’ll look at replace with people just as experienced as them. Guilds naturally get smaller until they become irrelevant.

    For a pvp guild to last it needs a way to sustain players. Living with low CP players procing vicious death results in short term loss for a long term gain. We still run with around 24 and fight numbers x4 our size so still do well.
    Edited by Iskiab on October 17, 2019 5:32PM
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • fred4
    fred4
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    Why do people complain about nightblades being cowardly and running away? Have they played one?

    Example: I hear a sorc activating Overload, but I don't know how hard it's going to hit. Stupidly I do not cloak away. You want to know how hard it hit? 10K per second actual damage from Overload + Ele Weapon. I cannot outshield that and I'm not made of stamina for rolling or blocking. In fact blocking is pretty horrendous on a speed build. You can't move. If I let the sorc go into Overload, it's too late. All I can do is anticipate.

    Granted I run a squishy build and this was on NA at only CP538. The regulars in this thread know I like to brawl. At this stage I've explored everything and, for me, speed and stam regen beats being tankier overall. It's just frustrating your attack window is so very short. In many a head-on damage exchange, I draw the short straw. Ganking puts people on the back foot, but many are tanky, perfectly able to recover, and they know it. Their offensive window is longer and the damage they can do is frequently higher than mine (unless they stay in a Zaan proc). The better players know this and will calmly take you down, unless you play ... cowardly.
    PC EU, Stamina DK (EP), Magicka NB (EP), Magicka Warden (EP), Magicka Templar (EP). Occasionally: Stamina Templar (EP), Stamina NB (AD), Stamina Sorcerer (DC)
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    ✭✭
    fred4 wrote: »
    Why do people complain about nightblades being cowardly and running away? Have they played one?

    Example: I hear a sorc activating Overload, but I don't know how hard it's going to hit. Stupidly I do not cloak away. You want to know how hard it hit? 10K per second actual damage from Overload + Ele Weapon. I cannot outshield that and I'm not made of stamina for rolling or blocking. In fact blocking is pretty horrendous on a speed build. You can't move. If I let the sorc go into Overload, it's too late. All I can do is anticipate.

    Granted I run a squishy build and this was on NA at only CP538. The regulars in this thread know I like to brawl. At this stage I've explored everything and, for me, speed and stam regen beats being tankier overall. It's just frustrating your attack window is so very short. In many a head-on damage exchange, I draw the short straw. Ganking puts people on the back foot, but many are tanky, perfectly able to recover, and they know it. Their offensive window is longer and the damage they can do is frequently higher than mine (unless they stay in a Zaan proc). The better players know this and will calmly take you down, unless you play ... cowardly.

    I know this isn’t the reply you want to hear, but if you like to brawl I’d level an alt on another class.

    I’ve been testing lots of stuff on PTS and while defense hasn’t exactly been nerfed, both burst and healing has been buffed. The game is continuing on the same trajectory of weakening passive defense, and NBs lack self healing. Your window is about to get a lot smaller.

    Without major defile my sorc can literally full heal itself in one cast (17k matriarch, 27k crits hitting two people) and pump out 10k tooltip overloads. You aren’t going to get far without high burst in a glassy spec.
    Edited by Iskiab on October 18, 2019 4:01AM
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • DomiNate4NB
    DomiNate4NB
    ✭✭
    Back from playing Stam for a bit. Definitely fun but missed the utility of mag.

    The only viable option is burst and movement speed imo. Finding the balance between the 2 was the challenge. Used to run steed mundus for the extra separation.

    Rat, cloack and concealed are all that are used for speed and I can move in and out like vintage Ali. "Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee"

    Having over 50% crit is crucial imo to having enough burst.

    I would play nightblade how it was originally intended: stealth, burst and speed. Definitely prioritizing burst but ensuring you have snare removal and cloak. Rat is way better than escape as 2s is all you need with the movement speed buff for 4s. Add the minor force that definitely supplements your burst in pvp and it is a MUST have.

    Rat is the catalyst to focus on burst and after being frustrated for the longest with magblade

    Until there is better balance with other roles you will feel like a lesser version of the other classes whether it be dmg(dot or aoe), tank or healer. MBs still own direct damage.

    Sounds like ZoS is already heading in that class identity direction (DKs getting dot passive potentially) so you will be ahead of the game as it relates to optimization.

  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    ✭✭
    Back from playing Stam for a bit. Definitely fun but missed the utility of mag.

    The only viable option is burst and movement speed imo. Finding the balance between the 2 was the challenge. Used to run steed mundus for the extra separation.

    Rat, cloack and concealed are all that are used for speed and I can move in and out like vintage Ali. "Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee"

    Having over 50% crit is crucial imo to having enough burst.

    I would play nightblade how it was originally intended: stealth, burst and speed. Definitely prioritizing burst but ensuring you have snare removal and cloak. Rat is way better than escape as 2s is all you need with the movement speed buff for 4s. Add the minor force that definitely supplements your burst in pvp and it is a MUST have.

    Rat is the catalyst to focus on burst and after being frustrated for the longest with magblade

    Until there is better balance with other roles you will feel like a lesser version of the other classes whether it be dmg(dot or aoe), tank or healer. MBs still own direct damage.

    Sounds like ZoS is already heading in that class identity direction (DKs getting dot passive potentially) so you will be ahead of the game as it relates to optimization.

    I agree completely, if you're really good and play a cloakblade you'll do okay if you're patient. What's out are brawlers and healers though most disagree with me about healers, and it'll take some playtime to see how things pan out. People complained about class diversity and it looks like cloakblade is where the class is going.

    Speed's great, one thing I've noticed is good DKs and Templars have figured out they can add speed too. Stamsorcs are faster out of stealth, NBs need cloak to be fast. Speed isn't a NB strength without shadowy disguise and concealed.

    I've also been having a lot of fun with the shadow mundus, high crit and onslaught. It's a great combination. find the glass canon PvE spec caster and make em pay. You can two shot them.
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • HEBREWHAMMERRR
    HEBREWHAMMERRR
    ✭✭✭✭
    Admittedly, hardly played the game this patch. ESO got kind of stale and BL3 is a blast. Hopped on this weekend, didn’t have a game under 1mil damage and 250k healing. 5 crafty Alfiq, 5 lich, BRP resto and Skoria. Heavy dot build with double healing drain poisons front bar, +9% healing back bar. Been rolling over people in BGs and single handedly carrying teams. Just have to know when to cloak away, when to get aggressive and when to defensively put up a heal. Other than that stack dots, watch the skorias rain down and time up that burst 👍🏻
  • GhostofDatthaw
    GhostofDatthaw
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    Admittedly, hardly played the game this patch. ESO got kind of stale and BL3 is a blast. Hopped on this weekend, didn’t have a game under 1mil damage and 250k healing. 5 crafty Alfiq, 5 lich, BRP resto and Skoria. Heavy dot build with double healing drain poisons front bar, +9% healing back bar. Been rolling over people in BGs and single handedly carrying teams. Just have to know when to cloak away, when to get aggressive and when to defensively put up a heal. Other than that stack dots, watch the skorias rain down and time up that burst 👍🏻

    Why would you run crafty over necro? Do you not use shade? I've also gone back to a more max mag based build on my argonian having a decent damage shield is the only way to survive outside of cloak spam. With my woodelf I'm still build around steed and Regen with high movement speed. I run both builds and the max mag is definitely better for standing and fighting. On my woodelf I have to constantly cloak image and roll around otherwise I get mollywhomped without a damage shield.
  • sandblack
    sandblack
    What do you guys think about this for no cp?
    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=181944

    Lover mundus. Only use cloak vs 2 or more .
    Problem comes when i need to heal. What do you guys think would be best in slot for healing up as a monster mask? TK?
  • GhostofDatthaw
    GhostofDatthaw
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    That's a strange build to run clench seemingly as the spammable but not running a master. As far has healing back up goes I've found if you build for Shields just run Regen. I like to run bs when I go high mag builds for the slight Stam Regen but really just for the shield resistances and the ult build, it synnergies well with funnel as a spammable.
  • Kaysha
    Kaysha
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    You have no spammable? Is that right?
    drop reach or inner light for swallow soul. Healing should be enough then.
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    ✭✭
    sandblack wrote: »
    What do you guys think about this for no cp?
    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=181944

    Lover mundus. Only use cloak vs 2 or more .
    Problem comes when i need to heal. What do you guys think would be best in slot for healing up as a monster mask? TK?

    Looks okay, but a couple things:
    1. Missing a Siphoning ability on your back bar, go with Soul Tether. It’s being buffed and will be decent and the better morph
    2. You’re running necropence but I think it’s a mistake. With that level of mag recovery sustain will be a huge issue. You’re going to have issues escaping with the shade or using the BRP resto when you need it most
    3. I’d try and up sustain and hit 2400 mag regen, it’s the sweet spot pre-patch and costs are going up on abilities not down
    4. If you can run crit pots and drop inner light. Elemental weapon can be used as a ghetto burst ability going Ele - LA - x.
    5. I’d consider willpower, drop spinners and weapon set on your front bar
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • Zevrro
    Zevrro
    ✭✭✭✭
    Iskiab wrote: »
    sandblack wrote: »
    What do you guys think about this for no cp?
    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=181944

    Lover mundus. Only use cloak vs 2 or more .
    Problem comes when i need to heal. What do you guys think would be best in slot for healing up as a monster mask? TK?

    Looks okay, but a couple things:
    1. Missing a Siphoning ability on your back bar, go with Soul Tether. It’s being buffed and will be decent and the better morph
    2. You’re running necropence but I think it’s a mistake. With that level of mag recovery sustain will be a huge issue. You’re going to have issues escaping with the shade or using the BRP resto when you need it most
    3. I’d try and up sustain and hit 2400 mag regen, it’s the sweet spot pre-patch and costs are going up on abilities not down
    4. If you can run crit pots and drop inner light. Elemental weapon can be used as a ghetto burst ability going Ele - LA - x.
    5. I’d consider willpower, drop spinners and weapon set on your front bar

    2.4k regen seems overkill to me. With minor magickasteal and siphoning attacks 1.7k is plenty to sustain for me. Spinners with necro is a nice setup but I'd swap engine guardian for something that gives survivability like bloodspawn.
    @Zevrro PC-EU
    CP 1200+
    Azura's Star/Sotha Sil/Bahlokdaan
    Magicka Nightblade

    AD | Zevrro
    | Magicka Nightblade | AR43 |
    AD | Zevrro II | Magicka Nightblade | AR50 | 09-02-2019 |
    DC | Not Zevrro | Magicka Nightblade | AR33 |
    EP | Ževrro | Magicka Nightblade | AR14 |
    Other PvP Characters
    AD | Zevrro VII | Stamina Warden | AR32 |
    AD | Zevrro XII | Magicka Warden | AR17 |
    DC | Not Zevrro II | Magicka Warden | AR14 |
    DC | Necrotic Zevrro | Magicka Necromancer | AR17 |
    EP | Real-Skyice | Stamina Warden | AR10 |

    >152m AP
  • GhostofDatthaw
    GhostofDatthaw
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    I honestly hate how I am forced into using dark cloak with bar space so limited as it is. I would love to drop it for Regen but it's my only source to proc my ward passives besides spamming shade.
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Zevrro wrote: »
    Iskiab wrote: »
    sandblack wrote: »
    What do you guys think about this for no cp?
    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=181944

    Lover mundus. Only use cloak vs 2 or more .
    Problem comes when i need to heal. What do you guys think would be best in slot for healing up as a monster mask? TK?

    Looks okay, but a couple things:
    1. Missing a Siphoning ability on your back bar, go with Soul Tether. It’s being buffed and will be decent and the better morph
    2. You’re running necropence but I think it’s a mistake. With that level of mag recovery sustain will be a huge issue. You’re going to have issues escaping with the shade or using the BRP resto when you need it most
    3. I’d try and up sustain and hit 2400 mag regen, it’s the sweet spot pre-patch and costs are going up on abilities not down
    4. If you can run crit pots and drop inner light. Elemental weapon can be used as a ghetto burst ability going Ele - LA - x.
    5. I’d consider willpower, drop spinners and weapon set on your front bar

    2.4k regen seems overkill to me. With minor magickasteal and siphoning attacks 1.7k is plenty to sustain for me. Spinners with necro is a nice setup but I'd swap engine guardian for something that gives survivability like bloodspawn.

    Well it’s up to you, if you can get by with 1700 then use 1700. Issue is moreso the magblade playstyle doesn’t really allow a lot of heavy attacking for sustain because of the fire staff. You could heavy attack with a resto but if you’re squishy it’s a bit dangerous.

    One set that I’ve seen that I really like is that new maurader set too. If you’re using the BRP resto on your back bar the speed will be nice. An alternative to putting concealed blade on your back bar, or do both to really be fast.

    It’s getting pretty standard for stam to run at least 1 swift. If you can’t outrun stam they’re going to stick on you and pop you out of stealth with aoes. I’d build to outrun a stamsorc, I think they’re going to be popular.
    Edited by Iskiab on October 21, 2019 10:21PM
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • Koensol
    Koensol
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Zevrro wrote: »
    Iskiab wrote: »
    sandblack wrote: »
    What do you guys think about this for no cp?
    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=181944

    Lover mundus. Only use cloak vs 2 or more .
    Problem comes when i need to heal. What do you guys think would be best in slot for healing up as a monster mask? TK?

    Looks okay, but a couple things:
    1. Missing a Siphoning ability on your back bar, go with Soul Tether. It’s being buffed and will be decent and the better morph
    2. You’re running necropence but I think it’s a mistake. With that level of mag recovery sustain will be a huge issue. You’re going to have issues escaping with the shade or using the BRP resto when you need it most
    3. I’d try and up sustain and hit 2400 mag regen, it’s the sweet spot pre-patch and costs are going up on abilities not down
    4. If you can run crit pots and drop inner light. Elemental weapon can be used as a ghetto burst ability going Ele - LA - x.
    5. I’d consider willpower, drop spinners and weapon set on your front bar

    2.4k regen seems overkill to me. With minor magickasteal and siphoning attacks 1.7k is plenty to sustain for me. Spinners with necro is a nice setup but I'd swap engine guardian for something that gives survivability like bloodspawn.
    I agree, but only with siphoning strikes and ele drain. With those 2 on my bars (which I usually have when playing dmg) my sweet spot is at 1.7k buffed too, as a breton that is. Without both I need at least 2k - 2.2k buffed. Magblade sustain is just garbage in no cp, unless you play a tankhealer in which case you need jack *** sustain :D
  • jimijac0me
    jimijac0me
    ✭✭✭
    For me it depends which cloak I use, if I’m using Shadow Cloak I need a lot more (2-2.3k), if I’m playing non-cloak (Dark) I find 1.4-1.7 is plenty with siphoning

    Edit: I’m Dunmer
    Edit 2: Also talking unbuffed and I use tri-pots so would be a bit higher but not a lot
    Edited by jimijac0me on October 22, 2019 7:33AM
    Guild Leader Rats of Tobruk (RoT) DC PVP Guild
    Jacome Enakis (DC NB)
    Jacome Dibella (DC Sorc)
    Tealc Enakis (DC DK)
    Jacome Lightbringer (DC Templar)
    Jacome Gro-Longenfirm (DC Sorc)
    Baron Humbert Von Gikken (DC Warden)
  • GhostofDatthaw
    GhostofDatthaw
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm an argonian, sit at 1.7 unbuffed, use spell pots I dueled for like 3 hours last night and it's rough life. I run ele drain and strikes, lotta heavies
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