The issue with magplar

MirkoZ · October 2019

Daemonai wrote: »

Forumplars are funny.

You would think they were succeeding in PVP playing an underpowered, underused class when in truth they are playing the FOTM's most overpowered and overloaded. Then they tell anyone who accurately points out that the class is overperforming to L2P. A joke.

I already knew this forum wasn't an accurate reflection of the state of the game by all of the hyperbolic "x class is dead because minor change" threads, but seeing people defend the obviously overpowered nature of Templar blows me. Like really? You haven't noticed the BG's composed of >50% Templars? Or that the top PVPers have migrated to Templar? I guess that is just incidental and in no way indicative of anything.

The nerfs, when they inevitably come, will be absolutely justified because, in its current state, Templar eclipses everything else, pun intended.

Exactly.

mikey_reach · October 2019

Frooke wrote: »

There is no counter play against a Magplar, even more when you play a stamblade. You lacks damage to burst a 100/0, dots won't work, your cloak won't work too, because of jabs and sweep ult will pull you out all the time, and ppl keep saying "L2P", "you got fear", "silence in incap" but any good player knows that in practice this is pretty useless againts templars

Actually good players wont even need the silence on incap, and no need to burst them from 100% if you can burst them from 80%. Just apply your poison inject heavy attack into a dodge roll proccing off balance if your cp is set up that way giving your incap a 20% damage boost, i like to make sure to use it before 120 ult so i can follow by a fear spec bow and surprise attack. I run double dot poisons to make them cleanse more than usually forcing their hand and sustain. And they wont be able to go offensive that way and usually they will run low on stam that way. And sure if the magplar is really really good then the only real problem i have with them is living dark if my 6 secs of snare immunity is down or if the are good at kiting with mist form because its easy to sustain stamina that way. But realistically speaking if they reset the fight on you then so can you on a nb. I say this because ive had these encounters and experiences in the field hence in "practice".

Nordic__Knights · October 2019

mikey_reach wrote: »

Frooke wrote: »

There is no counter play against a Magplar, even more when you play a stamblade. You lacks damage to burst a 100/0, dots won't work, your cloak won't work too, because of jabs and sweep ult will pull you out all the time, and ppl keep saying "L2P", "you got fear", "silence in incap" but any good player knows that in practice this is pretty useless againts templars

Actually good players wont even need the silence on incap, and no need to burst them from 100% if you can burst them from 80%. Just apply your poison inject heavy attack into a dodge roll proccing off balance if your cp is set up that way giving your incap a 20% damage boost, i like to make sure to use it before 120 ult so i can follow by a fear spec bow and surprise attack. I run double dot poisons to make them cleanse more than usually forcing their hand and sustain. And they wont be able to go offensive that way and usually they will run low on stam that way. And sure if the magplar is really really good then the only real problem i have with them is living dark if my 6 secs of snare immunity is down or if the are good at kiting with mist form because its easy to sustain stamina that way. But realistically speaking if they reset the fight on you then so can you on a nb. I say this because ive had these encounters and experiences in the field hence in "practice".

Good tactical way to deal with them i do similar actions as wel. I use acid spray as I am very dot heavy in that effect as well

mikey_reach · October 2019

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

mikey_reach wrote: »

Frooke wrote: »

There is no counter play against a Magplar, even more when you play a stamblade. You lacks damage to burst a 100/0, dots won't work, your cloak won't work too, because of jabs and sweep ult will pull you out all the time, and ppl keep saying "L2P", "you got fear", "silence in incap" but any good player knows that in practice this is pretty useless againts templars

Actually good players wont even need the silence on incap, and no need to burst them from 100% if you can burst them from 80%. Just apply your poison inject heavy attack into a dodge roll proccing off balance if your cp is set up that way giving your incap a 20% damage boost, i like to make sure to use it before 120 ult so i can follow by a fear spec bow and surprise attack. I run double dot poisons to make them cleanse more than usually forcing their hand and sustain. And they wont be able to go offensive that way and usually they will run low on stam that way. And sure if the magplar is really really good then the only real problem i have with them is living dark if my 6 secs of snare immunity is down or if the are good at kiting with mist form because its easy to sustain stamina that way. But realistically speaking if they reset the fight on you then so can you on a nb. I say this because ive had these encounters and experiences in the field hence in "practice".

Good tactical way to deal with them i do similar actions as wel. I use acid spray as I am very dot heavy in that effect as well

Its really effective by the time you shoot your spec bow if the off balance is still up its a 30%-38% damage boost combined with incap and camo hunter minor beserk on it i forgot to mention. Which is why i can understand that the issue really isnt the magplar its the skill play being applied on the nb. And i im not even against magplar nerf, i agree purge doesnt need the snare its already overloaded even without it and i hate this current living dark with a passion. I actually do understand that magplars are really strong right now but as long as you dont over extend and you engage appopriately as a stamblade you will be fine. And i also use spriggs shackle and BS with master bow just like her triple infused jewlery of course. Which is why i can understand that even though magplars are crazy strong right now if i can do it why can her. And like i said i cant always win specially if the use mist form and kiting the right way but its not like i cant get away or die everytime if thats the case.

Edited-

Nordic__Knights · October 2019

mikey_reach wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

mikey_reach wrote: »

Frooke wrote: »

There is no counter play against a Magplar, even more when you play a stamblade. You lacks damage to burst a 100/0, dots won't work, your cloak won't work too, because of jabs and sweep ult will pull you out all the time, and ppl keep saying "L2P", "you got fear", "silence in incap" but any good player knows that in practice this is pretty useless againts templars

Actually good players wont even need the silence on incap, and no need to burst them from 100% if you can burst them from 80%. Just apply your poison inject heavy attack into a dodge roll proccing off balance if your cp is set up that way giving your incap a 20% damage boost, i like to make sure to use it before 120 ult so i can follow by a fear spec bow and surprise attack. I run double dot poisons to make them cleanse more than usually forcing their hand and sustain. And they wont be able to go offensive that way and usually they will run low on stam that way. And sure if the magplar is really really good then the only real problem i have with them is living dark if my 6 secs of snare immunity is down or if the are good at kiting with mist form because its easy to sustain stamina that way. But realistically speaking if they reset the fight on you then so can you on a nb. I say this because ive had these encounters and experiences in the field hence in "practice".

Good tactical way to deal with them i do similar actions as wel. I use acid spray as I am very dot heavy in that effect as well

Its really effective by the time you shoot your spec bow if the off balance is still up its a 30% damage boost on it i forgot to mention. Which is why i can understand that the issue really isnt the magplar its the skill play being applied on the nb. And i im not even against magplar nerf, i agree purge doesnt need the snare its already overloaded even without it and i hate this current living dark with a passion. I actually do understand that magplars are really strong right now but as long as you dont over extend and you engage appopriately as a stamblade you will be fine. And i also use spriggs shackle and BS with master bow just like her triple infused jewlery of course. Which is why i can understand that even though magplars are crazy strong right now if i can do it why can her. And like i said i cant always win specially if the use mist form and kiting the right way but its not like i cant get away or die everytime if thats the case.

1v1 it works great i agree bgs and 1vX when solo and groups all over you not so much yes i get NO-ONE never dies but when death re cap shows 3 of 5 hits came from templar and are the highest tics to something aint right there

Rhaegar75 · October 2019

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Soo yes this is a nerf thread. There are a few things that are completely op about magplar.
This is from a scalebreaker perspective but I think these need to be addressed.

1. Honour the dead. I was fighting a magplar earlier this day who was just block healing all of my damage. Lasted for about a minute of just spamming heals before I got out of stam, was stunned and jabbed to death.
i think the sustain element is WAY to strong. Most classes use their burst heal as an emergency but Templar can SPAM it?

Solution: make the skill heal for more depending on hp %. So up to 50% more at 1% hp.

2. Snares. They have an aoe 30% snare wherever your fighting them. They have a (now as if dragonhold) 40% snare from getting hit once with the spammable. WAY to much. Yes there are snare immunity skills but do I really have to hit shuffle every 5 secs?

Solution: no snare on purge skill. Ez

3. Sweeps does similar damage (including burning light) to shalks, a skill that is a 3 sec time bomb. Templar can spam sweeps. Yes it can be hard to hit them but if they are stunned from gap closer then two sets of jabs unblocked, undodged, will absolutely melt people. Even with major evasion sweeps still deals more damage than any other spammable. Not only that, it gives a HEAL, minor protection, and is an aoe.
OVERLOADED

Solution: reduce damage Ez

Now to address the imminent incoming insults to my build / skill:

I run shackle + Spriggans + bloodspawn on my nightblade currently

Here’s a screenshot of my stat sheet

I think a am a decent player, I can win most fights and usually get a good kill to death ratio in bgs.

Ty for reading this longish post
Please keep comments on topic, no raging about magsorcs or cloak being op. This is MAGPLAR.

I don’t want this one closed aswell.

I'm sure others may have already suggested this....how about interrupting or stunning the templar?

ThePhantomThorn · October 2019

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Soo yes this is a nerf thread. There are a few things that are completely op about magplar.
This is from a scalebreaker perspective but I think these need to be addressed.

1. Honour the dead. I was fighting a magplar earlier this day who was just block healing all of my damage. Lasted for about a minute of just spamming heals before I got out of stam, was stunned and jabbed to death.
i think the sustain element is WAY to strong. Most classes use their burst heal as an emergency but Templar can SPAM it?

Solution: make the skill heal for more depending on hp %. So up to 50% more at 1% hp.

2. Snares. They have an aoe 30% snare wherever your fighting them. They have a (now as if dragonhold) 40% snare from getting hit once with the spammable. WAY to much. Yes there are snare immunity skills but do I really have to hit shuffle every 5 secs?

Solution: no snare on purge skill. Ez

3. Sweeps does similar damage (including burning light) to shalks, a skill that is a 3 sec time bomb. Templar can spam sweeps. Yes it can be hard to hit them but if they are stunned from gap closer then two sets of jabs unblocked, undodged, will absolutely melt people. Even with major evasion sweeps still deals more damage than any other spammable. Not only that, it gives a HEAL, minor protection, and is an aoe.
OVERLOADED

Solution: reduce damage Ez

Now to address the imminent incoming insults to my build / skill:

I run shackle + Spriggans + bloodspawn on my nightblade currently

Here’s a screenshot of my stat sheet

I think a am a decent player, I can win most fights and usually get a good kill to death ratio in bgs.

Ty for reading this longish post
Please keep comments on topic, no raging about magsorcs or cloak being op. This is MAGPLAR.

I don’t want this one closed aswell.

I'm sure others may have already suggested this....how about interrupting or stunning the templar?

Read through. I was on a new char and hadn’t morphed turn evil at that point. And you can’t interrupt sweeps

ealdwin · October 2019

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

I think with all the arguing about sweeps maybe Templar should get a different spammable. Like an instant cast jab.

I know someone suggested this in a previous thread, but I'd have to disagree. Puncturing Strikes is such a unique spammable in how it works (look & feel), that changing it to an instant cast jab would make it feel pale in comparison to how it is now. With the downward trends in Class Identity, I'd rather classes kept their uniquely (?) feeling skills and animations.

That being said, you make some valid points in your original argument. Templars are, in comparison to some, a less mobile class(mobility equaling snare removal and boosts to speed); their only mobility skill being the gap closer. As a result, they have more anti-mobility (reducing enemy movement speed) built in. Based on the original class design of the "house", this anti-mobility was built to target enemies coming at Templars in their "house".

Now, arguably, Templar does have too many snares. I would propose first, removing any snares from Dawn's Wrath skills. If templars want to stop a target so they can catch up, they have javelin. (Why they decided to make javelin ignore armor is another discussion for another time.) Removing snares from Dawn's Wrath wouldn't even that big of a change, it would mean no more snare on Eclipse and no snare on Reflective Light. Then, depending on how this next patch feels, consider changing the snare on Puncturing Strikes to snare 30% on the final strike. (Or for fun we could revert it pre 2.3.5 where it knocked back on final hit... jk)

I would also suggest reverting Spear Wall passive back to Summerset level. I get from a PVP reason why that was done, but, it does add too much power to the abilities focused on damage.

Burning Light could also be reworked into a sort of pseudo-execute, where the bonus damage only occurs on low health targets. It would reduce it's effectiveness all the time, but still let it keep it's power and even help out Stamplars a bit.

Finally, let's buff the other classes back and let them shine where they should. So what if there's some redundancy in buffs between skills. Redundancy just means that there can be diversity between builds, and reinforces class identity. If a class is supposed to be quick and mobile, let it be quick and mobile. If it's supposed to be tanky, let it be tanky. Let classes be fun and powerful.

mikey_reach · October 2019

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

mikey_reach wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

mikey_reach wrote: »

Frooke wrote: »

There is no counter play against a Magplar, even more when you play a stamblade. You lacks damage to burst a 100/0, dots won't work, your cloak won't work too, because of jabs and sweep ult will pull you out all the time, and ppl keep saying "L2P", "you got fear", "silence in incap" but any good player knows that in practice this is pretty useless againts templars

Actually good players wont even need the silence on incap, and no need to burst them from 100% if you can burst them from 80%. Just apply your poison inject heavy attack into a dodge roll proccing off balance if your cp is set up that way giving your incap a 20% damage boost, i like to make sure to use it before 120 ult so i can follow by a fear spec bow and surprise attack. I run double dot poisons to make them cleanse more than usually forcing their hand and sustain. And they wont be able to go offensive that way and usually they will run low on stam that way. And sure if the magplar is really really good then the only real problem i have with them is living dark if my 6 secs of snare immunity is down or if the are good at kiting with mist form because its easy to sustain stamina that way. But realistically speaking if they reset the fight on you then so can you on a nb. I say this because ive had these encounters and experiences in the field hence in "practice".

Good tactical way to deal with them i do similar actions as wel. I use acid spray as I am very dot heavy in that effect as well

Its really effective by the time you shoot your spec bow if the off balance is still up its a 30% damage boost on it i forgot to mention. Which is why i can understand that the issue really isnt the magplar its the skill play being applied on the nb. And i im not even against magplar nerf, i agree purge doesnt need the snare its already overloaded even without it and i hate this current living dark with a passion. I actually do understand that magplars are really strong right now but as long as you dont over extend and you engage appopriately as a stamblade you will be fine. And i also use spriggs shackle and BS with master bow just like her triple infused jewlery of course. Which is why i can understand that even though magplars are crazy strong right now if i can do it why can her. And like i said i cant always win specially if the use mist form and kiting the right way but its not like i cant get away or die everytime if thats the case.

1v1 it works great i agree bgs and 1vX when solo and groups all over you not so much yes i get NO-ONE never dies but when death re cap shows 3 of 5 hits came from templar and are the highest tics to something aint right there

Oh i most definately dont expect to have much success past a 1v3 its not like we are still in 2015-16 where 1vx was very viable stamblade arent are at its best right now. And ive noticed that if i get melted by jabs its usually because of my mistakes or that magplar was running a 2h with onslaught which is a viable playstyle right now with 12 secs of almost 100% pen.

Nordic__Knights · October 2019

ealdwin wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

I think with all the arguing about sweeps maybe Templar should get a different spammable. Like an instant cast jab.

I know someone suggested this in a previous thread, but I'd have to disagree. Puncturing Strikes is such a unique spammable in how it works (look & feel), that changing it to an instant cast jab would make it feel pale in comparison to how it is now. With the downward trends in Class Identity, I'd rather classes kept their uniquely (?) feeling skills and animations.

That being said, you make some valid points in your original argument. Templars are, in comparison to some, a less mobile class(mobility equaling snare removal and boosts to speed); their only mobility skill being the gap closer. As a result, they have more anti-mobility (reducing enemy movement speed) built in. Based on the original class design of the "house", this anti-mobility was built to target enemies coming at Templars in their "house".

Now, arguably, Templar does have too many snares. I would propose first, removing any snares from Dawn's Wrath skills. If templars want to stop a target so they can catch up, they have javelin. (Why they decided to make javelin ignore armor is another discussion for another time.) Removing snares from Dawn's Wrath wouldn't even that big of a change, it would mean no more snare on Eclipse and no snare on Reflective Light. Then, depending on how this next patch feels, consider changing the snare on Puncturing Strikes to snare 30% on the final strike. (Or for fun we could revert it pre 2.3.5 where it knocked back on final hit... jk)

I would also suggest reverting Spear Wall passive back to Summerset level. I get from a PVP reason why that was done, but, it does add too much power to the abilities focused on damage.

Burning Light could also be reworked into a sort of pseudo-execute, where the bonus damage only occurs on low health targets. It would reduce it's effectiveness all the time, but still let it keep it's power and even help out Stamplars a bit.

Finally, let's buff the other classes back and let them shine where they should. So what if there's some redundancy in buffs between skills. Redundancy just means that there can be diversity between builds, and reinforces class identity. If a class is supposed to be quick and mobile, let it be quick and mobile. If it's supposed to be tanky, let it be tanky. Let classes be fun and powerful.

Yes a lot of the problems came for Templar when other skills from other classes got things removed from their abilities used against Templar, as well as other classes to. While Templar has been given tools that help them out even more against the things that was taken from us, mainly what we were using them for too

Qbiken · October 2019

Would rather see other classes getting their old features back compared to butchering templar (stuff like frag stun, fracture on surprise attack etc....).

Nordic__Knights · October 2019

mikey_reach wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

mikey_reach wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

mikey_reach wrote: »

Frooke wrote: »

There is no counter play against a Magplar, even more when you play a stamblade. You lacks damage to burst a 100/0, dots won't work, your cloak won't work too, because of jabs and sweep ult will pull you out all the time, and ppl keep saying "L2P", "you got fear", "silence in incap" but any good player knows that in practice this is pretty useless againts templars

Actually good players wont even need the silence on incap, and no need to burst them from 100% if you can burst them from 80%. Just apply your poison inject heavy attack into a dodge roll proccing off balance if your cp is set up that way giving your incap a 20% damage boost, i like to make sure to use it before 120 ult so i can follow by a fear spec bow and surprise attack. I run double dot poisons to make them cleanse more than usually forcing their hand and sustain. And they wont be able to go offensive that way and usually they will run low on stam that way. And sure if the magplar is really really good then the only real problem i have with them is living dark if my 6 secs of snare immunity is down or if the are good at kiting with mist form because its easy to sustain stamina that way. But realistically speaking if they reset the fight on you then so can you on a nb. I say this because ive had these encounters and experiences in the field hence in "practice".

Good tactical way to deal with them i do similar actions as wel. I use acid spray as I am very dot heavy in that effect as well

Its really effective by the time you shoot your spec bow if the off balance is still up its a 30% damage boost on it i forgot to mention. Which is why i can understand that the issue really isnt the magplar its the skill play being applied on the nb. And i im not even against magplar nerf, i agree purge doesnt need the snare its already overloaded even without it and i hate this current living dark with a passion. I actually do understand that magplars are really strong right now but as long as you dont over extend and you engage appopriately as a stamblade you will be fine. And i also use spriggs shackle and BS with master bow just like her triple infused jewlery of course. Which is why i can understand that even though magplars are crazy strong right now if i can do it why can her. And like i said i cant always win specially if the use mist form and kiting the right way but its not like i cant get away or die everytime if thats the case.

1v1 it works great i agree bgs and 1vX when solo and groups all over you not so much yes i get NO-ONE never dies but when death re cap shows 3 of 5 hits came from templar and are the highest tics to something aint right there

Oh i most definately dont expect to have much success past a 1v3 its not like we are still in 2015-16 where 1vx was very viable stamblade arent are at its best right now. And ive noticed that if i get melted by jabs its usually because of my mistakes or that magplar was running a 2h with onslaught which is a viable playstyle right now with 12 secs of almost 100% pen.

that be stamplar not magplar but yes even some of the overload of templar runs over to stam as well and onslaught is another issue on its own no need to get started here as we're just trying to keep open focus on templar and ways both sides can agree may need adjustment to balance them with other classes

Nordic__Knights · October 2019

Qbiken wrote: »

Would rather see other classes getting their old features back compared to butchering templar (stuff like frag stun, fracture on surprise attack etc....).

That probably would be the most enjoyable way for everybody but the likelihood of it happening that way who knows but without a general discussion between players and meaningful ways how is the development going to even see what we think and what we discuss is being fair towards each other

technohic · October 2019

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

mikey_reach wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

mikey_reach wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

mikey_reach wrote: »

Frooke wrote: »

There is no counter play against a Magplar, even more when you play a stamblade. You lacks damage to burst a 100/0, dots won't work, your cloak won't work too, because of jabs and sweep ult will pull you out all the time, and ppl keep saying "L2P", "you got fear", "silence in incap" but any good player knows that in practice this is pretty useless againts templars

Actually good players wont even need the silence on incap, and no need to burst them from 100% if you can burst them from 80%. Just apply your poison inject heavy attack into a dodge roll proccing off balance if your cp is set up that way giving your incap a 20% damage boost, i like to make sure to use it before 120 ult so i can follow by a fear spec bow and surprise attack. I run double dot poisons to make them cleanse more than usually forcing their hand and sustain. And they wont be able to go offensive that way and usually they will run low on stam that way. And sure if the magplar is really really good then the only real problem i have with them is living dark if my 6 secs of snare immunity is down or if the are good at kiting with mist form because its easy to sustain stamina that way. But realistically speaking if they reset the fight on you then so can you on a nb. I say this because ive had these encounters and experiences in the field hence in "practice".

Good tactical way to deal with them i do similar actions as wel. I use acid spray as I am very dot heavy in that effect as well

Its really effective by the time you shoot your spec bow if the off balance is still up its a 30% damage boost on it i forgot to mention. Which is why i can understand that the issue really isnt the magplar its the skill play being applied on the nb. And i im not even against magplar nerf, i agree purge doesnt need the snare its already overloaded even without it and i hate this current living dark with a passion. I actually do understand that magplars are really strong right now but as long as you dont over extend and you engage appopriately as a stamblade you will be fine. And i also use spriggs shackle and BS with master bow just like her triple infused jewlery of course. Which is why i can understand that even though magplars are crazy strong right now if i can do it why can her. And like i said i cant always win specially if the use mist form and kiting the right way but its not like i cant get away or die everytime if thats the case.

1v1 it works great i agree bgs and 1vX when solo and groups all over you not so much yes i get NO-ONE never dies but when death re cap shows 3 of 5 hits came from templar and are the highest tics to something aint right there

Oh i most definately dont expect to have much success past a 1v3 its not like we are still in 2015-16 where 1vx was very viable stamblade arent are at its best right now. And ive noticed that if i get melted by jabs its usually because of my mistakes or that magplar was running a 2h with onslaught which is a viable playstyle right now with 12 secs of almost 100% pen.

that be stamplar not magplar but yes even some of the overload of templar runs over to stam as well and onslaught is another issue on its own no need to get started here as we're just trying to keep open focus on templar and ways both sides can agree may need adjustment to balance them with other classes

Magplar run 2h and onslaught as well.

Nordic__Knights · October 2019

technohic wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

mikey_reach wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

mikey_reach wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

mikey_reach wrote: »

Frooke wrote: »

There is no counter play against a Magplar, even more when you play a stamblade. You lacks damage to burst a 100/0, dots won't work, your cloak won't work too, because of jabs and sweep ult will pull you out all the time, and ppl keep saying "L2P", "you got fear", "silence in incap" but any good player knows that in practice this is pretty useless againts templars

Actually good players wont even need the silence on incap, and no need to burst them from 100% if you can burst them from 80%. Just apply your poison inject heavy attack into a dodge roll proccing off balance if your cp is set up that way giving your incap a 20% damage boost, i like to make sure to use it before 120 ult so i can follow by a fear spec bow and surprise attack. I run double dot poisons to make them cleanse more than usually forcing their hand and sustain. And they wont be able to go offensive that way and usually they will run low on stam that way. And sure if the magplar is really really good then the only real problem i have with them is living dark if my 6 secs of snare immunity is down or if the are good at kiting with mist form because its easy to sustain stamina that way. But realistically speaking if they reset the fight on you then so can you on a nb. I say this because ive had these encounters and experiences in the field hence in "practice".

Good tactical way to deal with them i do similar actions as wel. I use acid spray as I am very dot heavy in that effect as well

Its really effective by the time you shoot your spec bow if the off balance is still up its a 30% damage boost on it i forgot to mention. Which is why i can understand that the issue really isnt the magplar its the skill play being applied on the nb. And i im not even against magplar nerf, i agree purge doesnt need the snare its already overloaded even without it and i hate this current living dark with a passion. I actually do understand that magplars are really strong right now but as long as you dont over extend and you engage appopriately as a stamblade you will be fine. And i also use spriggs shackle and BS with master bow just like her triple infused jewlery of course. Which is why i can understand that even though magplars are crazy strong right now if i can do it why can her. And like i said i cant always win specially if the use mist form and kiting the right way but its not like i cant get away or die everytime if thats the case.

1v1 it works great i agree bgs and 1vX when solo and groups all over you not so much yes i get NO-ONE never dies but when death re cap shows 3 of 5 hits came from templar and are the highest tics to something aint right there

Oh i most definately dont expect to have much success past a 1v3 its not like we are still in 2015-16 where 1vx was very viable stamblade arent are at its best right now. And ive noticed that if i get melted by jabs its usually because of my mistakes or that magplar was running a 2h with onslaught which is a viable playstyle right now with 12 secs of almost 100% pen.

that be stamplar not magplar but yes even some of the overload of templar runs over to stam as well and onslaught is another issue on its own no need to get started here as we're just trying to keep open focus on templar and ways both sides can agree may need adjustment to balance them with other classes

Magplar run 2h and onslaught as well.

When you used jabs it pointed to stam yes both use 2h and onslaught but as said that is another issue

technohic · October 2019

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

mikey_reach wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

mikey_reach wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

mikey_reach wrote: »

Frooke wrote: »

There is no counter play against a Magplar, even more when you play a stamblade. You lacks damage to burst a 100/0, dots won't work, your cloak won't work too, because of jabs and sweep ult will pull you out all the time, and ppl keep saying "L2P", "you got fear", "silence in incap" but any good player knows that in practice this is pretty useless againts templars

Actually good players wont even need the silence on incap, and no need to burst them from 100% if you can burst them from 80%. Just apply your poison inject heavy attack into a dodge roll proccing off balance if your cp is set up that way giving your incap a 20% damage boost, i like to make sure to use it before 120 ult so i can follow by a fear spec bow and surprise attack. I run double dot poisons to make them cleanse more than usually forcing their hand and sustain. And they wont be able to go offensive that way and usually they will run low on stam that way. And sure if the magplar is really really good then the only real problem i have with them is living dark if my 6 secs of snare immunity is down or if the are good at kiting with mist form because its easy to sustain stamina that way. But realistically speaking if they reset the fight on you then so can you on a nb. I say this because ive had these encounters and experiences in the field hence in "practice".

Good tactical way to deal with them i do similar actions as wel. I use acid spray as I am very dot heavy in that effect as well

Its really effective by the time you shoot your spec bow if the off balance is still up its a 30% damage boost on it i forgot to mention. Which is why i can understand that the issue really isnt the magplar its the skill play being applied on the nb. And i im not even against magplar nerf, i agree purge doesnt need the snare its already overloaded even without it and i hate this current living dark with a passion. I actually do understand that magplars are really strong right now but as long as you dont over extend and you engage appopriately as a stamblade you will be fine. And i also use spriggs shackle and BS with master bow just like her triple infused jewlery of course. Which is why i can understand that even though magplars are crazy strong right now if i can do it why can her. And like i said i cant always win specially if the use mist form and kiting the right way but its not like i cant get away or die everytime if thats the case.

1v1 it works great i agree bgs and 1vX when solo and groups all over you not so much yes i get NO-ONE never dies but when death re cap shows 3 of 5 hits came from templar and are the highest tics to something aint right there

Oh i most definately dont expect to have much success past a 1v3 its not like we are still in 2015-16 where 1vx was very viable stamblade arent are at its best right now. And ive noticed that if i get melted by jabs its usually because of my mistakes or that magplar was running a 2h with onslaught which is a viable playstyle right now with 12 secs of almost 100% pen.

that be stamplar not magplar but yes even some of the overload of templar runs over to stam as well and onslaught is another issue on its own no need to get started here as we're just trying to keep open focus on templar and ways both sides can agree may need adjustment to balance them with other classes

Magplar run 2h and onslaught as well.

When you used jabs it pointed to stam yes both use 2h and onslaught but as said that is another issue

Its kind of related. Templar is a one of few classes that doest have major breach or fracture, nor a lot of debuffs like maim in their kit. Defile is kind of there but you see few people run dark flare these days. Having an ultimate that makes that weakness null is a huge boost to either spec so they dont gave to worry about pen and can pile up raw resource and damage which makes the heals more potent.

Think that would be a good overall point. Everyone wants to isolate individual things on paper and ignore the big picture.

Vlad9425 · October 2019

Most frustrating thing about fighting Magplars nowadays is the constant snares. Using shuffle every 5 seconds isn't fun gameplay.

Amira · October 2019

These Zerglings post in thread after thread, watch Nordic_Noob die, lol. He should be banned for this constant BS L2P ffs. These are just petty revenge nerf threads because they're salty that they died and are so bad at PVP.

https://i.imgur.com/B2uKF5W.gif

Hit the gif link and enjoy

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/497879/i-wish-plars-were-never-the-fotm#latest

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/497536/sweep-spam-is-op#latest

Witar · October 2019

Nyladreas wrote: »

NBs are just in a bad spot vs Templars currently. It's not the Templars fault. They can still be outplayed although it's very difficult on a gankblade.

A traditional gankblade anyways. You gotta either switch to a different build and wait for a moment to shut them down, or go a bit more hit and run defensive route.

You can't outheal them as a nightblade.

Brawlerblades are literaly unkillable on magplar when using brp duals. Those gankblades writing about no counterplay to templars are just laughable.

MirkoZ · October 2019

Amira wrote: »

These Zerglings post in thread after thread, watch Nordic_Noob die, lol. He should be banned for this constant BS L2P ffs. These are just petty revenge nerf threads because they're salty that they died and are so bad at PVP.

https://i.imgur.com/B2uKF5W.gif

Hit the gif link and enjoy

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/497879/i-wish-plars-were-never-the-fotm#latest

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/497536/sweep-spam-is-op#latest

Thought you were over 10 years old.
Instead of harassing a player make some arguements.

Nordic__Knights · October 2019

MirkoZ wrote: »

Amira wrote: »

These Zerglings post in thread after thread, watch Nordic_Noob die, lol. He should be banned for this constant BS L2P ffs. These are just petty revenge nerf threads because they're salty that they died and are so bad at PVP.

https://i.imgur.com/B2uKF5W.gif

Hit the gif link and enjoy

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/497879/i-wish-plars-were-never-the-fotm#latest

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/497536/sweep-spam-is-op#latest

Thought you were over 10 years old.
Instead of harassing a player make some arguements.

Ty as im not able to respond and to inform yes video shown is me never was i fighting only jumping around joking with play doesn't show play style nor skill level

Amira · October 2019

Good players don't call for nerfs in thread after thread because they died.

JWillCHS · October 2019

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

JWillCHS wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

JWillCHS wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

@Nordic__Knights
Please keep things on topic. I appreciate the support but if this goes off topic the thread will be closed
Ty

Just putting things out to STOP the #1 standpoint when talking about anything on here as this ISSUES more then an l2p issue tho its everyone's only defence when anything is said against them if youd like ill go about my day as i myself dont have issues killing templars as im an gank build zerg stopper that gets 4-8 jumping me to kill me and i kill top tier players often few seen in these videos

I'm going to go ahead and bite.

1) Remove the snare on Extended Ritual.

2) Templars do not need to apply another immobility/CC effect with Living Dark

3) You can get rid of the Minor Protection passive.

4)F!ck it. Get rid of the snare on Puncturing Sweeps.

But if that's the case I'd like to see:

1)Puncturing Sweeps with no channeled effect and adjust it's damage.

I'm still going to pull you out of stealth with Solar Barrage or a set like Overwhelming Surge.

Its not about if you can pull out of stealth
Its more that due to passives behind skills that are spamable that snares opponent and heals the user it brings an unbalanced set of skills to an fight and due to CHANGES made to other classes, skills in the new combat things should be fairly the same for all classes in the game

WE KNOW IT'S NOT ABOUT PULLING OUT OF STEALTH.

But I promise that if you get the changes you want, you'll be presented with another type Magicka Templar backed by adjustments that still make it effective in a different way. In my opinion, magplar is a good template for how we want other classes to perform. The class in general was just on a straight and narrow path with each patch. Most of the changes to magplar were fixing issues that were ingrained in how some abilities were coded.

Scalebreaker came along and broke the game. But it put Templar in a perfect position to be a performer. Great damage from Entropy and Reflective Light/Vampire's Bane(increase to DoT damage); and you just Sweep your target away. Living Dark is a game changer for the class because it gave it more survivability without having to be mobile and stamina reliant. And I'll agree the minor protection passive was just a bonus on top of that. Plus with all these DoTs of course an ability like Extended Ritual is going to look good.

But let say they take the minor protection away, and the CC from Living Dark. Throw in the nerfs to all DoTs and you would have a magicka Templar that was just as normal as before Scalebreaker. I'll agree that sustain damage should not look like burst damage. The DoT meta literally made my magplar do a 180 in damage.

However, if you were to take away some of those things you're asking it would change Magplar forever especially in no-CP and Battlegrounds where you really see how good the foundation is for your class/build. And because of that I think some(not all) changes you're asking for are wrong.

In what you just said shows the need for balance you hear me State balance I'm not saying make them gutless I'm not saying make them worthless I'm saying balance them to other classes as they have done to other classes we're trying to get balanced yet somebody says these skills are overloaded or over performing due to the balance session it becomes an uproar with disrespect and telling people they don't know what they're talking about and then they need to learn how to play if we didn't know how to play we wouldn't be able to identify what's wrong with something

What I am trying to say is what's the real discrepancy that we're trying to fix?

I really do not believe that the snare for Puncturing Sweeps need to be removed. I do believe that the snare from Extended Ritual does. I also believe that if ZoS wants Living Dark to be THE mechanic for magicka Templars to go on offense from a defensive position they need to find some way to do it without a CC.

But I honestly thing that the majority of the issues with Templar currently in Scalebreaker do come from the DoT meta, and not necessarily this "perceived" Templar meta that people always reference. I feel like Dragonhold will address that.

Let's not use the word nerf, but change. If we're going to make these sweeping changes to a class, what alternatives can you provide to what Magicka Templar will loose? Because what we've seen all this year with other classes(that still need to be address) is asking for abilities to have features remove and then not providing an alternative.

Nordic__Knights · October 2019

Amira wrote: »

These Zerglings post in thread after thread, watch Nordic_Noob die, lol. He should be banned for this constant BS L2P ffs. These are just petty revenge nerf threads because they're salty that they died and are so bad at PVP.

https://i.imgur.com/B2uKF5W.gif

Hit the gif link and enjoy

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/497879/i-wish-plars-were-never-the-fotm#latest

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/497536/sweep-spam-is-op#latest

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_BillE

Witar · October 2019

You have snare removal and immunity tool available to any character through psijiic skilline or medium armor. You have major evasion available to nightblades skillline. What other arguments do you need? If i could almost negate that much damage from magsorc just by equipping one skill i would be kinda happy.

Amira · October 2019

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Amira wrote: »

These Zerglings post in thread after thread, watch Nordic_Noob die, lol. He should be banned for this constant BS L2P ffs. These are just petty revenge nerf threads because they're salty that they died and are so bad at PVP.

https://i.imgur.com/B2uKF5W.gif

Hit the gif link and enjoy

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/497879/i-wish-plars-were-never-the-fotm#latest

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/497536/sweep-spam-is-op#latest

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_BillE

Yes please I hope they look at your lies and bs in thread after thread. You died and you're salty, we get it.

Nordic__Knights · October 2019

JWillCHS wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

JWillCHS wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

JWillCHS wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

@Nordic__Knights
Please keep things on topic. I appreciate the support but if this goes off topic the thread will be closed
Ty

Just putting things out to STOP the #1 standpoint when talking about anything on here as this ISSUES more then an l2p issue tho its everyone's only defence when anything is said against them if youd like ill go about my day as i myself dont have issues killing templars as im an gank build zerg stopper that gets 4-8 jumping me to kill me and i kill top tier players often few seen in these videos

I'm going to go ahead and bite.

1) Remove the snare on Extended Ritual.

2) Templars do not need to apply another immobility/CC effect with Living Dark

3) You can get rid of the Minor Protection passive.

4)F!ck it. Get rid of the snare on Puncturing Sweeps.

But if that's the case I'd like to see:

1)Puncturing Sweeps with no channeled effect and adjust it's damage.

I'm still going to pull you out of stealth with Solar Barrage or a set like Overwhelming Surge.

Its not about if you can pull out of stealth
Its more that due to passives behind skills that are spamable that snares opponent and heals the user it brings an unbalanced set of skills to an fight and due to CHANGES made to other classes, skills in the new combat things should be fairly the same for all classes in the game

WE KNOW IT'S NOT ABOUT PULLING OUT OF STEALTH.

But I promise that if you get the changes you want, you'll be presented with another type Magicka Templar backed by adjustments that still make it effective in a different way. In my opinion, magplar is a good template for how we want other classes to perform. The class in general was just on a straight and narrow path with each patch. Most of the changes to magplar were fixing issues that were ingrained in how some abilities were coded.

Scalebreaker came along and broke the game. But it put Templar in a perfect position to be a performer. Great damage from Entropy and Reflective Light/Vampire's Bane(increase to DoT damage); and you just Sweep your target away. Living Dark is a game changer for the class because it gave it more survivability without having to be mobile and stamina reliant. And I'll agree the minor protection passive was just a bonus on top of that. Plus with all these DoTs of course an ability like Extended Ritual is going to look good.

But let say they take the minor protection away, and the CC from Living Dark. Throw in the nerfs to all DoTs and you would have a magicka Templar that was just as normal as before Scalebreaker. I'll agree that sustain damage should not look like burst damage. The DoT meta literally made my magplar do a 180 in damage.

However, if you were to take away some of those things you're asking it would change Magplar forever especially in no-CP and Battlegrounds where you really see how good the foundation is for your class/build. And because of that I think some(not all) changes you're asking for are wrong.

In what you just said shows the need for balance you hear me State balance I'm not saying make them gutless I'm not saying make them worthless I'm saying balance them to other classes as they have done to other classes we're trying to get balanced yet somebody says these skills are overloaded or over performing due to the balance session it becomes an uproar with disrespect and telling people they don't know what they're talking about and then they need to learn how to play if we didn't know how to play we wouldn't be able to identify what's wrong with something

What I am trying to say is what's the real discrepancy that we're trying to fix?

I really do not believe that the snare for Puncturing Sweeps need to be removed. I do believe that the snare from Extended Ritual does. I also believe that if ZoS wants Living Dark to be THE mechanic for magicka Templars to go on offense from a defensive position they need to find some way to do it without a CC.

But I honestly thing that the majority of the issues with Templar currently in Scalebreaker do come from the DoT meta, and not necessarily this "perceived" Templar meta that people always reference. I feel like Dragonhold will address that.

Let's not use the word nerf, but change. If we're going to make these sweeping changes to a class, what alternatives can you provide to what Magicka Templar will loose? Because what we've seen all this year with other classes(that still need to be address) is asking for abilities to have features remove and then not providing an alternative.

Thing is skills+passives overloaded the skill more then needed that having snare removed or burning light proc change to only apply at 25% and below of health to player so not to harm PVE wouldn't need to be maded up for by giving something back

Witar · October 2019

Just let nordic insta kill any templar he encounters. Would be easier this way

Nordic__Knights · October 2019

Witar wrote: »

Just let nordic insta kill any templar he encounters. Would be easier this way

https://youtu.be/6CsULmh-Trs

No i like to work for my kills on templar when their emperors

Witar · October 2019

I can understand why do you have all those troubles with templars if that's you on that video, lol. Killing one guy who is definitly away afk then tbagging him

Slaying the emperor haha.