The issue with magplar

Drdeath20 · October 2019

In b4 it closes

Abyssmol · October 2019

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

FrankonPC wrote: »

In my opinion there are two(maybe 3) issues with templars that need to be adjusted:

1. Their snare kit is the best in the game. Everything a magplar does passively snares you in place. If you wanted to play a snare warden or run snares on a dk you have to build into it more than they do. Extended ritual being a good heal with a great radius, purifying 5 dots AND snaring is really strong. My solution: take away the snare on extended, but keep it on the purify that does damage. Also take away the snare on sweeps, with toppling charge actually working well, it's no longer needed. The jab spam snare at one point was a must for templars in my opinion because landing jabs and sweeps was difficult due to the hit box. I don't think that's the case anymore.

Edit: I know that people are going to mention dk's having passive snares as well, but a dk doesn't have an aoe 12 meter radius snare. It's also only for 3 seconds, not the entire duration of a purify.

2. The bubble is an atrocious mechanic. Coming from a player that has played the class and fought against it, it is extremely powerful. While running a 3 man group in the sewers during the event we could not get run down if i had bubble on and I was body blocking my group. Too many people were getting locked in place temporarily, allowing us to move wherever we want. In an outnumbered fight as a non-magplar, you have to focus the other team's templars or else they will keep their group healed to full. So you focus the guy with the bubble and then get rooted in place because you HAVE to take them out in order to win the fight. As I said, I know it's becoming a snare, but refer to #1. There's no need for this skill to snare when it provides a nice heal. I liked the way the old bubble and eclipse worked personally, and the mini eclipse being like a curse was really nice. Templars already have toppling charge and javelin, how many roots and ccs are needed? If you want to add snares to their kit, add them in the same way mag dk has them or magden, expensive utility skills.

3. I like the potl/purifying light changes but it the skill being able to "could" be too strong. It's definitely something I'll be testing in open world once the patch drops.

outside of that...their damage is fine and I'm ok with the healing and purifies. A lot of what the templar can do currently in scalebreaker will be scaled back because of dots getting nerfed.

I'm gonna just stop you at point # 1.

The Snare is not part of Extended Ritual....why do people keep thinking this?? The Snare comes from the Passive ability Sacred Ground, which on PTS/Dragonhold snares anyone inside of the radius for 30% movement speed (unless you run Snare Immunity).
Also, the heal ticks every 2 seconds, opposed to other HoTs that tick per second. The skill also cost over 5K to use and does not prioritize negative effects. Which translates to a Templar needing to recast 2-3 times to completely purge all effects active over 60% of the time in battle in PVP. Even harder for a Stamina Templar with a 10-12K Mag pool
To add, Templars also do not have "escape" tools or speed buffs to add to mobility in and out of combat - Hence the snares.

Bubble, most Templars don't even like it. Also, plenty of bugs have been pointed out with it to ZOS Devs and nothing has been done.

For the final time, for those who do not understand PoTL. It has been changed to store ONLY the caster's damage. Why shouldn't a delayed burst ability not be able to Crit? Spectral Bow can crit, Bound Armaments (new) can Crit, Snipe can Crit, Shalks can Crit...the list goes on. If you can't play against it, then L2P. If you have PoTL on you, you should have your debuff timer on and pop your heals before it goes off.

Can you say that to console players who don't have buff timers just an effect picture or only PC matter i dont know xbox buff/ debuff tracking but tbh it criting doesn't get to me because as you said other skill do and PoTL can be removed or nb can cloak it and get away
Mobility templar can have great mobility if built for same as other classes have to build for things so everything having an snare or stun added with it is BS now
All skills going to cost an ass load not just 1 templar skill so we'll leave that alone but area of aoe / with snare too 😆 😆 youd think they didn't have damage to fight with but they do seen by the fact they can PoTL/cap/sweep or jab x X (burning light proc)X till dead or stun ends then its javelin to cap and everything repeats.

Also, since you seem to pay more attention to recaps than actual gameplay, what is the highest PoTL you have been hit with? Does it ever exceed Cfrag or Spectal Bow?
Because I personally, have never had a PotL hit me for more than 6k in my recaps....
I'll wait...

as its not used often i cant give you an number for it and i dont hold on to re-caps or when it is applied to myself i cloak through it and reset so again cant give number but once it becomes live im sure lots will use ill try to get you numbers then but i cant say it will kill me as its visual is way more than a buff tracker would ever be needed tbh
It well hit me harder than C frag for sure thats an easy roll dodge and a miss and bow lol lol i dont run in groups so getting 5 light attacks to get it to proc GL so again there dont see lots of it when another nb attacks it 85% surprise attack spam
My pain points in pvp is MAGSORC and magdk rest really dont bother me much outside of getting 4-6 jumping me

Okay, so then why did you hop on the NerfTemplar bandwagon all of a sudden? You're in nearly every recent Nerf Templar thread defending said nerfs...yet you just stated that:
1. PotL is not used often.
2. Templars are not your pain points.

Edited for further clarification. PotL IS used that often, by 95% of Stamina Templars. Why? Because Stamina Templars cannot, and don't rely on just Jabs for burst. What other skills in Templar kit can they rely on for burst? Javelin?-No. Toppling?-No. Blazing Spear?-No. Blazing Shield?-No while laughing.
All other forms of burst/pressure with Stamina Templar is DoT's from Weapon Skill lines - which have been nerfed.

Also, the reason you believe PotL is not widely used is because it's not on your death recaps, usually. The reason is because it's not that strong. Stamina Templars generally finish with DB/Onslaught into Executioner while weaving in Jabs as pressure.

1) why did i start on the bandwagon oh idk maybe because the players behind templars likes to attack and disrespect everyone that says anything about them see point is i posted my 1 comment to just simply show something to be called an lier while 4 or 5 then need to L2P when post wasn't even mine then someone wants to go to their Trophy Room of eso videos and try to use an video of someone jumping around as it means something because they got an kill an kill that they worked hard for the whole time why player just jumped around never attacking and every templar in the chat jumped for joy because of it then moved on to attack me in more personal ways all because someone showed an picture that goes against what they want to be let out in the community because they can't have their be loved templar get changed then they couldn't 1 button god mode anymore just i know the players from ps4 and how they play funny because i KILL them daily 1v1 up to 1v9 ive taken keeps 3v24 with camp we freely let them use because it was just more free AP what 98% of players are and ive done it more then once in ALL 12k hrs i played ive been emp 16xs and other then maybe 5 players besides my kids i dont nor wont group with any of them why because i dislike people plan and simple theres your reason why hope you like knowing that not everyone you disrespect here is an nice person thats going to bow down and be the *** because your tough behind an keypad

Honestly, all I got from that long statement was terrible punctuation and a laughable rant caused by being trigered over a video game. I called out your statement long before the video was made public. You try and try to defend yourself, but only end up looking more foolish. You've made zero tangible arguments against "all these Templars" as to why they are "OP" and provided little proof that is less than "big picture".
The reason that "Templars" have started "attacking" you is because you have erroneously called for unjustified nerfs to a class that simply out-played you during a Dot-Meta patch that had no business even being implemented to the game.

There's an old saying..."Think before you speak..." that I believe many people these days don't hear to often, nor would even understand the meaning. If you say something with little to no merit in a public setting, be prepared to face an opposition.

No i believe your the one that started in over the fact that Google translate doesn't put in punctuation when it types out what it hears you say as ive said before English aint my 1st language so i use it here to speak yes i can go back and add EVERYTHING to make it look good but you going to grade it and give an award for it NO so why and your right i haven't yet but info out in the best way as 1 this aint my post just help the OP since he starts an post but never response to thing ya i can give more facts but as ive said elsewhere ill do that my way here shortly because remember im not good at game nor understand it 😆 😆 😆 😆 time to brush off the dirt from my templar and become good since templar just so OVERWHELMING even bad players out there killing EVERYTHING

Bro get a life...this is just a game. Go out al

Drdeath20 wrote: »

In b4 it closes

Second that...oh look I got a medal in my ZOS forum account. 😁

FrankonPC · October 2019

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

I did read the whole post, hence why I gave an opposition to all of your points and not just #1. The Templar passives snare within its skill line ground AOE's due to the old "house" design by Wrobel. It has since changed with ZOS's direction of fast paced and mobile gameplay. Templars were just left behind in that aspect. Also, because it is a Ground AOE, I fail to see your point. You can't place it where you're not at as an attempt to snare a kiting player. Aside from that point, 80% of combat you are not sticking around inside your cleanse radius unless you're turtling or have no where to kite to for LOS. This, you are losing a majority of the healing ticks AND your Snare isn't following you.

Templars are inherently attacked first in any fight. Whether you're not a temp fighting in a 1 v x situation or you are a templar in a group v group, you're typically focused first. Because of that inherent thing, purify is always snaring everyone on the battlefield. If you're 1 v x'ing on a magplar and you put down a purify to LOS, the group typically has to go through your 12 m radius snare to fight you. This is better than ash cloud and gripping shards respectively and the snare is doing exactly what it's intended to do, slow everyone around you down.

I did not say anything about not having access to RaT. You are the one that clearly does not read well. I stated that Templars do not have built in class mobility via speed boost, repositioning skills or escape tools. That being said, I recant and edit.

my point wasn't about the class skill line. At one point dks and templars were the "stand your ground" class. Now they can be as fast as just about everyone because of race. Because of this skill, every class has access to high mobility. This is why they don't need everything to snare anymore.

Templars have living dark and hasty prayer. Both of which Templars either hate or do not use.

This is just not true. Living dark is used by the majority of templars I encounter in pvp, and the support templars that I play with occasionally also use it because of what it provides. In a group play situation I find living dark to be invaluable because of the ability to allow my group to maneuver around the battlefield. It's powerful in the same way that rapids were for ball groups, but instead of speeding everyone else up you're slowing everyone fighting you down.

Dks get wings for 50% reduction on ranged abilities and Major mending that can reset a fight and an undodgeable and unlockable CC+Root.
Wardens have shimmering shield that reflects projectiles and Major Expedition on demand.
Sorcs have shield and streak (and pets for LOS).
NBs have cloak and shade.
Those are all built in utilities to their respective class.

No class can cast instant heals the way a templar can, they also have access to one of the best skills in the game in purify(it was always strong, even stronger in scalebreaker obviously). Every class has their utility stuff, I am more than fine with templar healing and purifies, group support is their strength. I just don't think snares on jabs, purify, rune, reflective light, and living dark are necessary.

As for purify, all classes have it. Some built in to class like warden and Necro, but all have it from alliance war skill line. The only reason now versus before a Templar would bring cleanse is because of DoT meta.
And I didn't say I had issues with cleanse on my stamplar. I said it's harder to manage on stamina templat on comparison on cost to use ratio. When a player can apply 5+ effects for less than the cost of one cleanse.

Tell me more about your 5k cost for 5 negative cleanse being expensive while also touting purge and it's almost 8k cost at base for 3 negative effects(5400 for efficient purge).

Nordic__Knights · October 2019

Abyssmol wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

FrankonPC wrote: »

In my opinion there are two(maybe 3) issues with templars that need to be adjusted:

1. Their snare kit is the best in the game. Everything a magplar does passively snares you in place. If you wanted to play a snare warden or run snares on a dk you have to build into it more than they do. Extended ritual being a good heal with a great radius, purifying 5 dots AND snaring is really strong. My solution: take away the snare on extended, but keep it on the purify that does damage. Also take away the snare on sweeps, with toppling charge actually working well, it's no longer needed. The jab spam snare at one point was a must for templars in my opinion because landing jabs and sweeps was difficult due to the hit box. I don't think that's the case anymore.

Edit: I know that people are going to mention dk's having passive snares as well, but a dk doesn't have an aoe 12 meter radius snare. It's also only for 3 seconds, not the entire duration of a purify.

2. The bubble is an atrocious mechanic. Coming from a player that has played the class and fought against it, it is extremely powerful. While running a 3 man group in the sewers during the event we could not get run down if i had bubble on and I was body blocking my group. Too many people were getting locked in place temporarily, allowing us to move wherever we want. In an outnumbered fight as a non-magplar, you have to focus the other team's templars or else they will keep their group healed to full. So you focus the guy with the bubble and then get rooted in place because you HAVE to take them out in order to win the fight. As I said, I know it's becoming a snare, but refer to #1. There's no need for this skill to snare when it provides a nice heal. I liked the way the old bubble and eclipse worked personally, and the mini eclipse being like a curse was really nice. Templars already have toppling charge and javelin, how many roots and ccs are needed? If you want to add snares to their kit, add them in the same way mag dk has them or magden, expensive utility skills.

3. I like the potl/purifying light changes but it the skill being able to "could" be too strong. It's definitely something I'll be testing in open world once the patch drops.

outside of that...their damage is fine and I'm ok with the healing and purifies. A lot of what the templar can do currently in scalebreaker will be scaled back because of dots getting nerfed.

I'm gonna just stop you at point # 1.

The Snare is not part of Extended Ritual....why do people keep thinking this?? The Snare comes from the Passive ability Sacred Ground, which on PTS/Dragonhold snares anyone inside of the radius for 30% movement speed (unless you run Snare Immunity).
Also, the heal ticks every 2 seconds, opposed to other HoTs that tick per second. The skill also cost over 5K to use and does not prioritize negative effects. Which translates to a Templar needing to recast 2-3 times to completely purge all effects active over 60% of the time in battle in PVP. Even harder for a Stamina Templar with a 10-12K Mag pool
To add, Templars also do not have "escape" tools or speed buffs to add to mobility in and out of combat - Hence the snares.

Bubble, most Templars don't even like it. Also, plenty of bugs have been pointed out with it to ZOS Devs and nothing has been done.

For the final time, for those who do not understand PoTL. It has been changed to store ONLY the caster's damage. Why shouldn't a delayed burst ability not be able to Crit? Spectral Bow can crit, Bound Armaments (new) can Crit, Snipe can Crit, Shalks can Crit...the list goes on. If you can't play against it, then L2P. If you have PoTL on you, you should have your debuff timer on and pop your heals before it goes off.

Can you say that to console players who don't have buff timers just an effect picture or only PC matter i dont know xbox buff/ debuff tracking but tbh it criting doesn't get to me because as you said other skill do and PoTL can be removed or nb can cloak it and get away
Mobility templar can have great mobility if built for same as other classes have to build for things so everything having an snare or stun added with it is BS now
All skills going to cost an ass load not just 1 templar skill so we'll leave that alone but area of aoe / with snare too 😆 😆 youd think they didn't have damage to fight with but they do seen by the fact they can PoTL/cap/sweep or jab x X (burning light proc)X till dead or stun ends then its javelin to cap and everything repeats.

Also, since you seem to pay more attention to recaps than actual gameplay, what is the highest PoTL you have been hit with? Does it ever exceed Cfrag or Spectal Bow?
Because I personally, have never had a PotL hit me for more than 6k in my recaps....
I'll wait...

as its not used often i cant give you an number for it and i dont hold on to re-caps or when it is applied to myself i cloak through it and reset so again cant give number but once it becomes live im sure lots will use ill try to get you numbers then but i cant say it will kill me as its visual is way more than a buff tracker would ever be needed tbh
It well hit me harder than C frag for sure thats an easy roll dodge and a miss and bow lol lol i dont run in groups so getting 5 light attacks to get it to proc GL so again there dont see lots of it when another nb attacks it 85% surprise attack spam
My pain points in pvp is MAGSORC and magdk rest really dont bother me much outside of getting 4-6 jumping me

Okay, so then why did you hop on the NerfTemplar bandwagon all of a sudden? You're in nearly every recent Nerf Templar thread defending said nerfs...yet you just stated that:
1. PotL is not used often.
2. Templars are not your pain points.

Edited for further clarification. PotL IS used that often, by 95% of Stamina Templars. Why? Because Stamina Templars cannot, and don't rely on just Jabs for burst. What other skills in Templar kit can they rely on for burst? Javelin?-No. Toppling?-No. Blazing Spear?-No. Blazing Shield?-No while laughing.
All other forms of burst/pressure with Stamina Templar is DoT's from Weapon Skill lines - which have been nerfed.

Also, the reason you believe PotL is not widely used is because it's not on your death recaps, usually. The reason is because it's not that strong. Stamina Templars generally finish with DB/Onslaught into Executioner while weaving in Jabs as pressure.

1) why did i start on the bandwagon oh idk maybe because the players behind templars likes to attack and disrespect everyone that says anything about them see point is i posted my 1 comment to just simply show something to be called an lier while 4 or 5 then need to L2P when post wasn't even mine then someone wants to go to their Trophy Room of eso videos and try to use an video of someone jumping around as it means something because they got an kill an kill that they worked hard for the whole time why player just jumped around never attacking and every templar in the chat jumped for joy because of it then moved on to attack me in more personal ways all because someone showed an picture that goes against what they want to be let out in the community because they can't have their be loved templar get changed then they couldn't 1 button god mode anymore just i know the players from ps4 and how they play funny because i KILL them daily 1v1 up to 1v9 ive taken keeps 3v24 with camp we freely let them use because it was just more free AP what 98% of players are and ive done it more then once in ALL 12k hrs i played ive been emp 16xs and other then maybe 5 players besides my kids i dont nor wont group with any of them why because i dislike people plan and simple theres your reason why hope you like knowing that not everyone you disrespect here is an nice person thats going to bow down and be the *** because your tough behind an keypad

Honestly, all I got from that long statement was terrible punctuation and a laughable rant caused by being trigered over a video game. I called out your statement long before the video was made public. You try and try to defend yourself, but only end up looking more foolish. You've made zero tangible arguments against "all these Templars" as to why they are "OP" and provided little proof that is less than "big picture".
The reason that "Templars" have started "attacking" you is because you have erroneously called for unjustified nerfs to a class that simply out-played you during a Dot-Meta patch that had no business even being implemented to the game.

There's an old saying..."Think before you speak..." that I believe many people these days don't hear to often, nor would even understand the meaning. If you say something with little to no merit in a public setting, be prepared to face an opposition.

No i believe your the one that started in over the fact that Google translate doesn't put in punctuation when it types out what it hears you say as ive said before English aint my 1st language so i use it here to speak yes i can go back and add EVERYTHING to make it look good but you going to grade it a give an award for it NO so why and your right i haven't yet but info out in the best way as 1 this aint my post just help the OP since he starts an post but never response to thing ya i can give more facts but as ive said elsewhere ill do that my way here shortly because remember im not good at game nor understand it 😆 😆 😆 😆 time to brush off the dirt from my templar and become good since templar just so OVERWHELMING even bad players out there killing EVERYTHING

Bro get a life...this is just a game. Go out al

Drdeath20 wrote: »

In b4 it closes

Second that...oh look I got a medal in my ZOS forum account. 😁

YA your right this is just an game but thing is DISRESPECT IS DISRESPECT game or not but again its easy to be the tough guy/girl behind an keypad huh shows your interrogate as an man or woman acting like children at every turn when someone post something that doesn't fit into what you feel is good for you VIDEO GAME 😆 😆 😆 and just disrespecting them out the gate

Jabbs_Giggity · October 2019

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

FrankonPC wrote: »

In my opinion there are two(maybe 3) issues with templars that need to be adjusted:

1. Their snare kit is the best in the game. Everything a magplar does passively snares you in place. If you wanted to play a snare warden or run snares on a dk you have to build into it more than they do. Extended ritual being a good heal with a great radius, purifying 5 dots AND snaring is really strong. My solution: take away the snare on extended, but keep it on the purify that does damage. Also take away the snare on sweeps, with toppling charge actually working well, it's no longer needed. The jab spam snare at one point was a must for templars in my opinion because landing jabs and sweeps was difficult due to the hit box. I don't think that's the case anymore.

Edit: I know that people are going to mention dk's having passive snares as well, but a dk doesn't have an aoe 12 meter radius snare. It's also only for 3 seconds, not the entire duration of a purify.

2. The bubble is an atrocious mechanic. Coming from a player that has played the class and fought against it, it is extremely powerful. While running a 3 man group in the sewers during the event we could not get run down if i had bubble on and I was body blocking my group. Too many people were getting locked in place temporarily, allowing us to move wherever we want. In an outnumbered fight as a non-magplar, you have to focus the other team's templars or else they will keep their group healed to full. So you focus the guy with the bubble and then get rooted in place because you HAVE to take them out in order to win the fight. As I said, I know it's becoming a snare, but refer to #1. There's no need for this skill to snare when it provides a nice heal. I liked the way the old bubble and eclipse worked personally, and the mini eclipse being like a curse was really nice. Templars already have toppling charge and javelin, how many roots and ccs are needed? If you want to add snares to their kit, add them in the same way mag dk has them or magden, expensive utility skills.

3. I like the potl/purifying light changes but it the skill being able to "could" be too strong. It's definitely something I'll be testing in open world once the patch drops.

outside of that...their damage is fine and I'm ok with the healing and purifies. A lot of what the templar can do currently in scalebreaker will be scaled back because of dots getting nerfed.

I'm gonna just stop you at point # 1.

The Snare is not part of Extended Ritual....why do people keep thinking this?? The Snare comes from the Passive ability Sacred Ground, which on PTS/Dragonhold snares anyone inside of the radius for 30% movement speed (unless you run Snare Immunity).
Also, the heal ticks every 2 seconds, opposed to other HoTs that tick per second. The skill also cost over 5K to use and does not prioritize negative effects. Which translates to a Templar needing to recast 2-3 times to completely purge all effects active over 60% of the time in battle in PVP. Even harder for a Stamina Templar with a 10-12K Mag pool
To add, Templars also do not have "escape" tools or speed buffs to add to mobility in and out of combat - Hence the snares.

Bubble, most Templars don't even like it. Also, plenty of bugs have been pointed out with it to ZOS Devs and nothing has been done.

For the final time, for those who do not understand PoTL. It has been changed to store ONLY the caster's damage. Why shouldn't a delayed burst ability not be able to Crit? Spectral Bow can crit, Bound Armaments (new) can Crit, Snipe can Crit, Shalks can Crit...the list goes on. If you can't play against it, then L2P. If you have PoTL on you, you should have your debuff timer on and pop your heals before it goes off.

Can you say that to console players who don't have buff timers just an effect picture or only PC matter i dont know xbox buff/ debuff tracking but tbh it criting doesn't get to me because as you said other skill do and PoTL can be removed or nb can cloak it and get away
Mobility templar can have great mobility if built for same as other classes have to build for things so everything having an snare or stun added with it is BS now
All skills going to cost an ass load not just 1 templar skill so we'll leave that alone but area of aoe / with snare too 😆 😆 youd think they didn't have damage to fight with but they do seen by the fact they can PoTL/cap/sweep or jab x X (burning light proc)X till dead or stun ends then its javelin to cap and everything repeats.

Also, since you seem to pay more attention to recaps than actual gameplay, what is the highest PoTL you have been hit with? Does it ever exceed Cfrag or Spectal Bow?
Because I personally, have never had a PotL hit me for more than 6k in my recaps....
I'll wait...

as its not used often i cant give you an number for it and i dont hold on to re-caps or when it is applied to myself i cloak through it and reset so again cant give number but once it becomes live im sure lots will use ill try to get you numbers then but i cant say it will kill me as its visual is way more than a buff tracker would ever be needed tbh
It well hit me harder than C frag for sure thats an easy roll dodge and a miss and bow lol lol i dont run in groups so getting 5 light attacks to get it to proc GL so again there dont see lots of it when another nb attacks it 85% surprise attack spam
My pain points in pvp is MAGSORC and magdk rest really dont bother me much outside of getting 4-6 jumping me

Okay, so then why did you hop on the NerfTemplar bandwagon all of a sudden? You're in nearly every recent Nerf Templar thread defending said nerfs...yet you just stated that:
1. PotL is not used often.
2. Templars are not your pain points.

Edited for further clarification. PotL IS used that often, by 95% of Stamina Templars. Why? Because Stamina Templars cannot, and don't rely on just Jabs for burst. What other skills in Templar kit can they rely on for burst? Javelin?-No. Toppling?-No. Blazing Spear?-No. Blazing Shield?-No while laughing.
All other forms of burst/pressure with Stamina Templar is DoT's from Weapon Skill lines - which have been nerfed.

Also, the reason you believe PotL is not widely used is because it's not on your death recaps, usually. The reason is because it's not that strong. Stamina Templars generally finish with DB/Onslaught into Executioner while weaving in Jabs as pressure.

1) why did i start on the bandwagon oh idk maybe because the players behind templars likes to attack and disrespect everyone that says anything about them see point is i posted my 1 comment to just simply show something to be called an lier while 4 or 5 then need to L2P when post wasn't even mine then someone wants to go to their Trophy Room of eso videos and try to use an video of someone jumping around as it means something because they got an kill an kill that they worked hard for the whole time why player just jumped around never attacking and every templar in the chat jumped for joy because of it then moved on to attack me in more personal ways all because someone showed an picture that goes against what they want to be let out in the community because they can't have their be loved templar get changed then they couldn't 1 button god mode anymore just i know the players from ps4 and how they play funny because i KILL them daily 1v1 up to 1v9 ive taken keeps 3v24 with camp we freely let them use because it was just more free AP what 98% of players are and ive done it more then once in ALL 12k hrs i played ive been emp 16xs and other then maybe 5 players besides my kids i dont nor wont group with any of them why because i dislike people plan and simple theres your reason why hope you like knowing that not everyone you disrespect here is an nice person thats going to bow down and be the *** because your tough behind an keypad

Honestly, all I got from that long statement was terrible punctuation and a laughable rant caused by being trigered over a video game. I called out your statement long before the video was made public. You try and try to defend yourself, but only end up looking more foolish. You've made zero tangible arguments against "all these Templars" as to why they are "OP" and provided little proof that is less than "big picture".
The reason that "Templars" have started "attacking" you is because you have erroneously called for unjustified nerfs to a class that simply out-played you during a Dot-Meta patch that had no business even being implemented to the game.

There's an old saying..."Think before you speak..." that I believe many people these days don't hear to often, nor would even understand the meaning. If you say something with little to no merit in a public setting, be prepared to face an opposition.

No i believe your the one that started in over the fact that Google translate doesn't put in punctuation when it types out what it hears you say as ive said before English aint my 1st language so i use it here to speak yes i can go back and add EVERYTHING to make it look good but you going to grade it and give an award for it NO so why and your right i haven't yet put info out in the best way as 1 this aint my post just help the OP since he starts an post but never response to thing ya i can give more facts but as ive said elsewhere ill do that my way here shortly because remember im not good at game nor understand it 😆 😆 😆 😆 time to brush off the dirt from my templar and become good since templar just so OVERWHELMING even bad players out there killing EVERYTHING

Same is said for Sorc players...and better hurry, new patch drops soon and Templars won't be Meta anymore...

Nordic__Knights · October 2019

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

FrankonPC wrote: »

In my opinion there are two(maybe 3) issues with templars that need to be adjusted:

1. Their snare kit is the best in the game. Everything a magplar does passively snares you in place. If you wanted to play a snare warden or run snares on a dk you have to build into it more than they do. Extended ritual being a good heal with a great radius, purifying 5 dots AND snaring is really strong. My solution: take away the snare on extended, but keep it on the purify that does damage. Also take away the snare on sweeps, with toppling charge actually working well, it's no longer needed. The jab spam snare at one point was a must for templars in my opinion because landing jabs and sweeps was difficult due to the hit box. I don't think that's the case anymore.

Edit: I know that people are going to mention dk's having passive snares as well, but a dk doesn't have an aoe 12 meter radius snare. It's also only for 3 seconds, not the entire duration of a purify.

2. The bubble is an atrocious mechanic. Coming from a player that has played the class and fought against it, it is extremely powerful. While running a 3 man group in the sewers during the event we could not get run down if i had bubble on and I was body blocking my group. Too many people were getting locked in place temporarily, allowing us to move wherever we want. In an outnumbered fight as a non-magplar, you have to focus the other team's templars or else they will keep their group healed to full. So you focus the guy with the bubble and then get rooted in place because you HAVE to take them out in order to win the fight. As I said, I know it's becoming a snare, but refer to #1. There's no need for this skill to snare when it provides a nice heal. I liked the way the old bubble and eclipse worked personally, and the mini eclipse being like a curse was really nice. Templars already have toppling charge and javelin, how many roots and ccs are needed? If you want to add snares to their kit, add them in the same way mag dk has them or magden, expensive utility skills.

3. I like the potl/purifying light changes but it the skill being able to "could" be too strong. It's definitely something I'll be testing in open world once the patch drops.

outside of that...their damage is fine and I'm ok with the healing and purifies. A lot of what the templar can do currently in scalebreaker will be scaled back because of dots getting nerfed.

I'm gonna just stop you at point # 1.

The Snare is not part of Extended Ritual....why do people keep thinking this?? The Snare comes from the Passive ability Sacred Ground, which on PTS/Dragonhold snares anyone inside of the radius for 30% movement speed (unless you run Snare Immunity).
Also, the heal ticks every 2 seconds, opposed to other HoTs that tick per second. The skill also cost over 5K to use and does not prioritize negative effects. Which translates to a Templar needing to recast 2-3 times to completely purge all effects active over 60% of the time in battle in PVP. Even harder for a Stamina Templar with a 10-12K Mag pool
To add, Templars also do not have "escape" tools or speed buffs to add to mobility in and out of combat - Hence the snares.

Bubble, most Templars don't even like it. Also, plenty of bugs have been pointed out with it to ZOS Devs and nothing has been done.

For the final time, for those who do not understand PoTL. It has been changed to store ONLY the caster's damage. Why shouldn't a delayed burst ability not be able to Crit? Spectral Bow can crit, Bound Armaments (new) can Crit, Snipe can Crit, Shalks can Crit...the list goes on. If you can't play against it, then L2P. If you have PoTL on you, you should have your debuff timer on and pop your heals before it goes off.

Can you say that to console players who don't have buff timers just an effect picture or only PC matter i dont know xbox buff/ debuff tracking but tbh it criting doesn't get to me because as you said other skill do and PoTL can be removed or nb can cloak it and get away
Mobility templar can have great mobility if built for same as other classes have to build for things so everything having an snare or stun added with it is BS now
All skills going to cost an ass load not just 1 templar skill so we'll leave that alone but area of aoe / with snare too 😆 😆 youd think they didn't have damage to fight with but they do seen by the fact they can PoTL/cap/sweep or jab x X (burning light proc)X till dead or stun ends then its javelin to cap and everything repeats.

Also, since you seem to pay more attention to recaps than actual gameplay, what is the highest PoTL you have been hit with? Does it ever exceed Cfrag or Spectal Bow?
Because I personally, have never had a PotL hit me for more than 6k in my recaps....
I'll wait...

as its not used often i cant give you an number for it and i dont hold on to re-caps or when it is applied to myself i cloak through it and reset so again cant give number but once it becomes live im sure lots will use ill try to get you numbers then but i cant say it will kill me as its visual is way more than a buff tracker would ever be needed tbh
It well hit me harder than C frag for sure thats an easy roll dodge and a miss and bow lol lol i dont run in groups so getting 5 light attacks to get it to proc GL so again there dont see lots of it when another nb attacks it 85% surprise attack spam
My pain points in pvp is MAGSORC and magdk rest really dont bother me much outside of getting 4-6 jumping me

Okay, so then why did you hop on the NerfTemplar bandwagon all of a sudden? You're in nearly every recent Nerf Templar thread defending said nerfs...yet you just stated that:
1. PotL is not used often.
2. Templars are not your pain points.

Edited for further clarification. PotL IS used that often, by 95% of Stamina Templars. Why? Because Stamina Templars cannot, and don't rely on just Jabs for burst. What other skills in Templar kit can they rely on for burst? Javelin?-No. Toppling?-No. Blazing Spear?-No. Blazing Shield?-No while laughing.
All other forms of burst/pressure with Stamina Templar is DoT's from Weapon Skill lines - which have been nerfed.

Also, the reason you believe PotL is not widely used is because it's not on your death recaps, usually. The reason is because it's not that strong. Stamina Templars generally finish with DB/Onslaught into Executioner while weaving in Jabs as pressure.

1) why did i start on the bandwagon oh idk maybe because the players behind templars likes to attack and disrespect everyone that says anything about them see point is i posted my 1 comment to just simply show something to be called an lier while 4 or 5 then need to L2P when post wasn't even mine then someone wants to go to their Trophy Room of eso videos and try to use an video of someone jumping around as it means something because they got an kill an kill that they worked hard for the whole time why player just jumped around never attacking and every templar in the chat jumped for joy because of it then moved on to attack me in more personal ways all because someone showed an picture that goes against what they want to be let out in the community because they can't have their be loved templar get changed then they couldn't 1 button god mode anymore just i know the players from ps4 and how they play funny because i KILL them daily 1v1 up to 1v9 ive taken keeps 3v24 with camp we freely let them use because it was just more free AP what 98% of players are and ive done it more then once in ALL 12k hrs i played ive been emp 16xs and other then maybe 5 players besides my kids i dont nor wont group with any of them why because i dislike people plan and simple theres your reason why hope you like knowing that not everyone you disrespect here is an nice person thats going to bow down and be the *** because your tough behind an keypad

Honestly, all I got from that long statement was terrible punctuation and a laughable rant caused by being trigered over a video game. I called out your statement long before the video was made public. You try and try to defend yourself, but only end up looking more foolish. You've made zero tangible arguments against "all these Templars" as to why they are "OP" and provided little proof that is less than "big picture".
The reason that "Templars" have started "attacking" you is because you have erroneously called for unjustified nerfs to a class that simply out-played you during a Dot-Meta patch that had no business even being implemented to the game.

There's an old saying..."Think before you speak..." that I believe many people these days don't hear to often, nor would even understand the meaning. If you say something with little to no merit in a public setting, be prepared to face an opposition.

No i believe your the one that started in over the fact that Google translate doesn't put in punctuation when it types out what it hears you say as ive said before English aint my 1st language so i use it here to speak yes i can go back and add EVERYTHING to make it look good but you going to grade it and give an award for it NO so why and your right i haven't yet put info out in the best way as 1 this aint my post just help the OP since he starts an post but never response to thing ya i can give more facts but as ive said elsewhere ill do that my way here shortly because remember im not good at game nor understand it 😆 😆 😆 😆 time to brush off the dirt from my templar and become good since templar just so OVERWHELMING even bad players out there killing EVERYTHING

Same is said for Sorc players...and better hurry, new patch drops soon and Templars won't be Meta anymore...

better time to prove my point that it wasn't the dots i dont nor have i seen 1 player say anything about any dots when talking templar

Drdeath20 · October 2019

There was a point?!?

The_Snuff · October 2019

The fact that you gain Major Prophecy, Minor Sorcery, 3 ultimate, and apply a 40% snare when casting Reflective Light which is essentially a ranged Burning Embers damage-wise that hits up to 3 targets and in a single cast while only costing 2k magic in 5 LA combined with the overall 6% cost reduction templars get is just absolutely insane.

Jabbs_Giggity · October 2019

Rahar wrote: »

I'm just going to use this thread to air my opinions of templar, because I don't really want to read more than 1 pages of comments to get the gist of what everyone's saying. I did read one, though.

It seems a lot of people are giving the usual polarized l2p + "nerf this NOW" responses. I, however, being the benevolent saint I am (and indeed, humble), have a solution that might solve both of these issues...

If you ask me, the core of the problem of magplar (and yes, templar in general) is the overloaded nature of the abilities. Ritual is a prime example. Snare, GREAT healing, synergies, and purging all in one pretty """affordable""" ability. Jabs/sweeps, with the snare, the proc of the passive, the protection, and the healing, are another one of these offending overloadeds. The gap closer, too. What this turns into is a class that can do a lot without doing much at all, e.g., block healing through a full burst rotation, or having a large amount of damage in just a few button presses with no real lining up or timing needed, or stunning on cooldown as a natural part of your damage rotation when other classes need to focus on doing so. But I digress...

What we should do is shuffle some of those effects on the less-used skills of the templar kit. I'm no templar player, but I know you guys, like every other class, have some abilities you never use. With that being said, I can't offer any meaningful examples, but that should get the thinkers thonking, at the very least.

Honestly, with respect (no sarcasm) many of the skills that Templars do not use is purely due to ZOS gutting these skills for years. Templars have had the treatments you're seeing now with Nightblades for the past 4 years.
To the first topic of yours, many of these skills are not as overloaded as any other class's skills that have multiple effects; what you're speaking on is how the Active abilities synergize with the Passive abilities.
DK's can easily (if not better than) block heal through a full DPS rotation without consuming as much resources by utilizing Major Mending and Dragonblood (which is actually a higher heal amount than BoL/HtD), then turn the fight by fossilizing, leaping and whipping.
Ritual is not great healing. The heal tick occurs every 2 seconds, versus many other HoTs that heal every 1 second at a similar amount (slightly less due to faster ticks). Also, the HoT from Ritual does not follow you for the duration and, as mentioned before, Templars do not normally sit in their Rituals as they are forced to LOS out of their Ritual before being able to capitalize on everything Ritual has to offer. Realistically, you're getting a 5 effect purge at 5K Magicka and laying down a stationary Snare to start your LOS and heal up - which is generally cut short because negative effects are immediately reapplied (generally at much less cost than you casted for).

Emma_Overload · October 2019

I just got deleted by a 13K Purifying Light crit.

13K.

Can you imagine the uproar if Haunting Curse was critting for 13K?

Jabbs_Giggity · October 2019

The_Snuff wrote: »

The fact that you gain Major Prophecy, Minor Sorcery, 3 ultimate, and apply a 40% snare when casting Reflective Light which is essentially a ranged Burning Embers damage-wise that hits up to 3 targets and in a single cast while only costing 2k magic in 5 LA combined with the overall 6% cost reduction templars get is just absolutely insane.

When you put it on paper without stating where the effects are coming from, yes I agree.
However, two of those effects do not come from Sunfire - they come from passives. Also, Major Prophecy has been bugged for years (with no effort to fix, despite numerous threads from Templar players) where it only applies if the ability does damage on your target - this was only recently "fixed" by ZOS, as mentioned/confirmed in Dragonhold Patch Notes.

Jabbs_Giggity · October 2019

Emma_Overload wrote: »

I just got deleted by a 13K Purifying Light crit.

13K.

Can you imagine the uproar if Haunting Curse was critting for 13K?

Is this on Dragonhold PTS?

Drdeath20 · October 2019

Can we officially file this thread under a L2P issue?

Emma_Overload · October 2019

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

I just got deleted by a 13K Purifying Light crit.

13K.

Can you imagine the uproar if Haunting Curse was critting for 13K?

Is this on Dragonhold PTS?

This is on LIVE. Even the Templar who killed me admitted that it was "broken".

Abyssmol · October 2019

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Abyssmol wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

FrankonPC wrote: »

In my opinion there are two(maybe 3) issues with templars that need to be adjusted:

1. Their snare kit is the best in the game. Everything a magplar does passively snares you in place. If you wanted to play a snare warden or run snares on a dk you have to build into it more than they do. Extended ritual being a good heal with a great radius, purifying 5 dots AND snaring is really strong. My solution: take away the snare on extended, but keep it on the purify that does damage. Also take away the snare on sweeps, with toppling charge actually working well, it's no longer needed. The jab spam snare at one point was a must for templars in my opinion because landing jabs and sweeps was difficult due to the hit box. I don't think that's the case anymore.

Edit: I know that people are going to mention dk's having passive snares as well, but a dk doesn't have an aoe 12 meter radius snare. It's also only for 3 seconds, not the entire duration of a purify.

2. The bubble is an atrocious mechanic. Coming from a player that has played the class and fought against it, it is extremely powerful. While running a 3 man group in the sewers during the event we could not get run down if i had bubble on and I was body blocking my group. Too many people were getting locked in place temporarily, allowing us to move wherever we want. In an outnumbered fight as a non-magplar, you have to focus the other team's templars or else they will keep their group healed to full. So you focus the guy with the bubble and then get rooted in place because you HAVE to take them out in order to win the fight. As I said, I know it's becoming a snare, but refer to #1. There's no need for this skill to snare when it provides a nice heal. I liked the way the old bubble and eclipse worked personally, and the mini eclipse being like a curse was really nice. Templars already have toppling charge and javelin, how many roots and ccs are needed? If you want to add snares to their kit, add them in the same way mag dk has them or magden, expensive utility skills.

3. I like the potl/purifying light changes but it the skill being able to "could" be too strong. It's definitely something I'll be testing in open world once the patch drops.

outside of that...their damage is fine and I'm ok with the healing and purifies. A lot of what the templar can do currently in scalebreaker will be scaled back because of dots getting nerfed.

I'm gonna just stop you at point # 1.

The Snare is not part of Extended Ritual....why do people keep thinking this?? The Snare comes from the Passive ability Sacred Ground, which on PTS/Dragonhold snares anyone inside of the radius for 30% movement speed (unless you run Snare Immunity).
Also, the heal ticks every 2 seconds, opposed to other HoTs that tick per second. The skill also cost over 5K to use and does not prioritize negative effects. Which translates to a Templar needing to recast 2-3 times to completely purge all effects active over 60% of the time in battle in PVP. Even harder for a Stamina Templar with a 10-12K Mag pool
To add, Templars also do not have "escape" tools or speed buffs to add to mobility in and out of combat - Hence the snares.

Bubble, most Templars don't even like it. Also, plenty of bugs have been pointed out with it to ZOS Devs and nothing has been done.

For the final time, for those who do not understand PoTL. It has been changed to store ONLY the caster's damage. Why shouldn't a delayed burst ability not be able to Crit? Spectral Bow can crit, Bound Armaments (new) can Crit, Snipe can Crit, Shalks can Crit...the list goes on. If you can't play against it, then L2P. If you have PoTL on you, you should have your debuff timer on and pop your heals before it goes off.

Can you say that to console players who don't have buff timers just an effect picture or only PC matter i dont know xbox buff/ debuff tracking but tbh it criting doesn't get to me because as you said other skill do and PoTL can be removed or nb can cloak it and get away
Mobility templar can have great mobility if built for same as other classes have to build for things so everything having an snare or stun added with it is BS now
All skills going to cost an ass load not just 1 templar skill so we'll leave that alone but area of aoe / with snare too 😆 😆 youd think they didn't have damage to fight with but they do seen by the fact they can PoTL/cap/sweep or jab x X (burning light proc)X till dead or stun ends then its javelin to cap and everything repeats.

Also, since you seem to pay more attention to recaps than actual gameplay, what is the highest PoTL you have been hit with? Does it ever exceed Cfrag or Spectal Bow?
Because I personally, have never had a PotL hit me for more than 6k in my recaps....
I'll wait...

as its not used often i cant give you an number for it and i dont hold on to re-caps or when it is applied to myself i cloak through it and reset so again cant give number but once it becomes live im sure lots will use ill try to get you numbers then but i cant say it will kill me as its visual is way more than a buff tracker would ever be needed tbh
It well hit me harder than C frag for sure thats an easy roll dodge and a miss and bow lol lol i dont run in groups so getting 5 light attacks to get it to proc GL so again there dont see lots of it when another nb attacks it 85% surprise attack spam
My pain points in pvp is MAGSORC and magdk rest really dont bother me much outside of getting 4-6 jumping me

Okay, so then why did you hop on the NerfTemplar bandwagon all of a sudden? You're in nearly every recent Nerf Templar thread defending said nerfs...yet you just stated that:
1. PotL is not used often.
2. Templars are not your pain points.

Edited for further clarification. PotL IS used that often, by 95% of Stamina Templars. Why? Because Stamina Templars cannot, and don't rely on just Jabs for burst. What other skills in Templar kit can they rely on for burst? Javelin?-No. Toppling?-No. Blazing Spear?-No. Blazing Shield?-No while laughing.
All other forms of burst/pressure with Stamina Templar is DoT's from Weapon Skill lines - which have been nerfed.

Also, the reason you believe PotL is not widely used is because it's not on your death recaps, usually. The reason is because it's not that strong. Stamina Templars generally finish with DB/Onslaught into Executioner while weaving in Jabs as pressure.

1) why did i start on the bandwagon oh idk maybe because the players behind templars likes to attack and disrespect everyone that says anything about them see point is i posted my 1 comment to just simply show something to be called an lier while 4 or 5 then need to L2P when post wasn't even mine then someone wants to go to their Trophy Room of eso videos and try to use an video of someone jumping around as it means something because they got an kill an kill that they worked hard for the whole time why player just jumped around never attacking and every templar in the chat jumped for joy because of it then moved on to attack me in more personal ways all because someone showed an picture that goes against what they want to be let out in the community because they can't have their be loved templar get changed then they couldn't 1 button god mode anymore just i know the players from ps4 and how they play funny because i KILL them daily 1v1 up to 1v9 ive taken keeps 3v24 with camp we freely let them use because it was just more free AP what 98% of players are and ive done it more then once in ALL 12k hrs i played ive been emp 16xs and other then maybe 5 players besides my kids i dont nor wont group with any of them why because i dislike people plan and simple theres your reason why hope you like knowing that not everyone you disrespect here is an nice person thats going to bow down and be the *** because your tough behind an keypad

Honestly, all I got from that long statement was terrible punctuation and a laughable rant caused by being trigered over a video game. I called out your statement long before the video was made public. You try and try to defend yourself, but only end up looking more foolish. You've made zero tangible arguments against "all these Templars" as to why they are "OP" and provided little proof that is less than "big picture".
The reason that "Templars" have started "attacking" you is because you have erroneously called for unjustified nerfs to a class that simply out-played you during a Dot-Meta patch that had no business even being implemented to the game.

There's an old saying..."Think before you speak..." that I believe many people these days don't hear to often, nor would even understand the meaning. If you say something with little to no merit in a public setting, be prepared to face an opposition.

No i believe your the one that started in over the fact that Google translate doesn't put in punctuation when it types out what it hears you say as ive said before English aint my 1st language so i use it here to speak yes i can go back and add EVERYTHING to make it look good but you going to grade it a give an award for it NO so why and your right i haven't yet but info out in the best way as 1 this aint my post just help the OP since he starts an post but never response to thing ya i can give more facts but as ive said elsewhere ill do that my way here shortly because remember im not good at game nor understand it 😆 😆 😆 😆 time to brush off the dirt from my templar and become good since templar just so OVERWHELMING even bad players out there killing EVERYTHING

Bro get a life...this is just a game. Go out al

Drdeath20 wrote: »

In b4 it closes

Second that...oh look I got a medal in my ZOS forum account. 😁

YA your right this is just an game but thing is DISRESPECT IS DISRESPECT game or not but again its easy to be the tough guy/girl behind an keypad huh shows your interrogate as an man or woman acting like children at every turn when someone post something that doesn't fit into what you feel is good for you VIDEO GAME 😆 😆 😆 and just disrespecting them out the gate

You keep talking about Disrespect... Are you *** crazy!!! This is a game. yes get a life!!! And I would tell you in your face too. You are acting like a child...

Nordic__Knights · October 2019

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

The_Snuff wrote: »

The fact that you gain Major Prophecy, Minor Sorcery, 3 ultimate, and apply a 40% snare when casting Reflective Light which is essentially a ranged Burning Embers damage-wise that hits up to 3 targets and in a single cast while only costing 2k magic in 5 LA combined with the overall 6% cost reduction templars get is just absolutely insane.

When you put it on paper without stating where the effects are coming from, yes I agree.
However, two of those effects do not come from Sunfire - they come from passives. Also, Major Prophecy has been bugged for years (with no effort to fix, despite numerous threads from Templar players) where it only applies if the ability does damage on your target - this was only recently "fixed" by ZOS, as mentioned/confirmed in Dragonhold Patch Notes.

the hold time of this its been said that its the passives that overloaded the skills 😆 😆 😆 if moving passives around or leasing them to make balance then so be it.
Look you seem book smart and understand the game good but you looking at it as YOUR video game not others video game too so you cant help make your class an lil less op to get other classes in line with it for an more balanced game
Wouldn't you like to know your good by playing on an balanced field?

Rahar · October 2019

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Rahar wrote: »

I'm just going to use this thread to air my opinions of templar, because I don't really want to read more than 1 pages of comments to get the gist of what everyone's saying. I did read one, though.

It seems a lot of people are giving the usual polarized l2p + "nerf this NOW" responses. I, however, being the benevolent saint I am (and indeed, humble), have a solution that might solve both of these issues...

If you ask me, the core of the problem of magplar (and yes, templar in general) is the overloaded nature of the abilities. Ritual is a prime example. Snare, GREAT healing, synergies, and purging all in one pretty """affordable""" ability. Jabs/sweeps, with the snare, the proc of the passive, the protection, and the healing, are another one of these offending overloadeds. The gap closer, too. What this turns into is a class that can do a lot without doing much at all, e.g., block healing through a full burst rotation, or having a large amount of damage in just a few button presses with no real lining up or timing needed, or stunning on cooldown as a natural part of your damage rotation when other classes need to focus on doing so. But I digress...

What we should do is shuffle some of those effects on the less-used skills of the templar kit. I'm no templar player, but I know you guys, like every other class, have some abilities you never use. With that being said, I can't offer any meaningful examples, but that should get the thinkers thonking, at the very least.

Honestly, with respect (no sarcasm) many of the skills that Templars do not use is purely due to ZOS gutting these skills for years. Templars have had the treatments you're seeing now with Nightblades for the past 4 years.
To the first topic of yours, many of these skills are not as overloaded as any other class's skills that have multiple effects; what you're speaking on is how the Active abilities synergize with the Passive abilities.
DK's can easily (if not better than) block heal through a full DPS rotation without consuming as much resources by utilizing Major Mending and Dragonblood (which is actually a higher heal amount than BoL/HtD), then turn the fight by fossilizing, leaping and whipping.
Ritual is not great healing. The heal tick occurs every 2 seconds, versus many other HoTs that heal every 1 second at a similar amount (slightly less due to faster ticks). Also, the HoT from Ritual does not follow you for the duration and, as mentioned before, Templars do not normally sit in their Rituals as they are forced to LOS out of their Ritual before being able to capitalize on everything Ritual has to offer. Realistically, you're getting a 5 effect purge at 5K Magicka and laying down a stationary Snare to start your LOS and heal up - which is generally cut short because negative effects are immediately reapplied (generally at much less cost than you casted for).

But this isn't about Dragon Knights. If we balance classes according to how other classes perform, we'll never have something even close to actual balance. If we justify keeping all the templar skills how they are because another class can do them at a level that even approaches their own, all we'll get is a teeter-totter of meaningless changes and classes being extremely effective for very short periods of time.

Wait................

Humor aside -- and this is an extremely idealistic viewpoint and I understand this -- even with the addition of passives, no skill should have as many effects jam-packed into them as Toppling and Ritual. As you aptly point out, Ritual isn't as effective when you're on your own, and the healing isn't that great either. But put a templar into a team and you get an oppressive powerhouse of a monster, much like a lot of teams in higher MMR BGs. In fact, a lot of stamina classes used to fall into this oppressive category with the old vigor, but digressing.

To break it down into something more chewable, I'd say that Toppling is a good single-target skill to use as an example. It sets off balance, it stuns (when someone is casting a skill -- this is annoying. And really, when isn't someone doing this? I'd rather have it stun all the time than just part of the time, but that's another topic of discussion), and it gapcloses with some decent damage. What should happen here is one of these effects should be trimmed off or removed. Less damage. 100% stun but no off balance. No stun but keep the damage and off balance and maybe add some kind of debuff... These are just a few examples.

Circling back to my first point, all the classes are guilty of overloaded abilities, not just the templar. But this thread is about the templar, so let's look at them in a vacuum with few exceptions.

Jabbs_Giggity · October 2019

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

The_Snuff wrote: »

The fact that you gain Major Prophecy, Minor Sorcery, 3 ultimate, and apply a 40% snare when casting Reflective Light which is essentially a ranged Burning Embers damage-wise that hits up to 3 targets and in a single cast while only costing 2k magic in 5 LA combined with the overall 6% cost reduction templars get is just absolutely insane.

When you put it on paper without stating where the effects are coming from, yes I agree.
However, two of those effects do not come from Sunfire - they come from passives. Also, Major Prophecy has been bugged for years (with no effort to fix, despite numerous threads from Templar players) where it only applies if the ability does damage on your target - this was only recently "fixed" by ZOS, as mentioned/confirmed in Dragonhold Patch Notes.

the hold time of this its been said that its the passives that overloaded the skills 😆 😆 😆 if moving passives around or leasing them to make balance then so be it.
Look you seem book smart and understand the game good but you looking at it as YOUR video game not others video game too so you cant help make your class an lil less op to get other classes in line with it for an more balanced game
Wouldn't you like to know your good by playing on an balanced field?

I never said the Class shouldn't be re-balanced. I have played Templar since console launch and it hasn't always been what it is right now. It's been in a pretty crap spot for some time, until recently.
What I am doing is debating thread starters and commentary for unjustified nerfs with no evidence or unbiased solution for said nerf.
I've posted A LOT of feedback on Templars through various threads on where it could improve and where it's over performing; none of which ZOS takes a second glance it, though...
I'll leave it at that.

Nordic__Knights · October 2019

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

The_Snuff wrote: »

The fact that you gain Major Prophecy, Minor Sorcery, 3 ultimate, and apply a 40% snare when casting Reflective Light which is essentially a ranged Burning Embers damage-wise that hits up to 3 targets and in a single cast while only costing 2k magic in 5 LA combined with the overall 6% cost reduction templars get is just absolutely insane.

When you put it on paper without stating where the effects are coming from, yes I agree.
However, two of those effects do not come from Sunfire - they come from passives. Also, Major Prophecy has been bugged for years (with no effort to fix, despite numerous threads from Templar players) where it only applies if the ability does damage on your target - this was only recently "fixed" by ZOS, as mentioned/confirmed in Dragonhold Patch Notes.

the hold time of this its been said that its the passives that overloaded the skills 😆 😆 😆 if moving passives around or leasing them to make balance then so be it.
Look you seem book smart and understand the game good but you looking at it as YOUR video game not others video game too so you cant help make your class an lil less op to get other classes in line with it for an more balanced game
Wouldn't you like to know your good by playing on an balanced field?

I never said the Class shouldn't be re-balanced. I have played Templar since console launch and it hasn't always been what it is right now. It's been in a pretty crap spot for some time, until recently.
What I am doing is debating thread starters and commentary for unjustified nerfs with no evidence or unbiased solution for said nerf.
I've posted A LOT of feedback on Templars through various threads on where it could improve and where it's over performing; none of which ZOS takes a second glance it, though...
I'll leave it at that.

Then why instal others when they make an post maybe instead point out with good wording what the reasons are more clearly then ZOS would see them more often and not the defense and L2P and arguments were nothing gets tooken serious and then we get the kind of Nerf that we actually get here it's just way over board itself because do you not think that maybe that it's not easy enough exactly for them to see what the problems are and how to change and how it could be implemented here they might take it a little bit more consideration if we wasn't saying L2P or personally attacking each other and talking ***

SORRY GOOGLE *** THAT ALL UP

Witar · October 2019

Yes

Jabbs_Giggity · October 2019

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

The_Snuff wrote: »

The fact that you gain Major Prophecy, Minor Sorcery, 3 ultimate, and apply a 40% snare when casting Reflective Light which is essentially a ranged Burning Embers damage-wise that hits up to 3 targets and in a single cast while only costing 2k magic in 5 LA combined with the overall 6% cost reduction templars get is just absolutely insane.

When you put it on paper without stating where the effects are coming from, yes I agree.
However, two of those effects do not come from Sunfire - they come from passives. Also, Major Prophecy has been bugged for years (with no effort to fix, despite numerous threads from Templar players) where it only applies if the ability does damage on your target - this was only recently "fixed" by ZOS, as mentioned/confirmed in Dragonhold Patch Notes.

the hold time of this its been said that its the passives that overloaded the skills 😆 😆 😆 if moving passives around or leasing them to make balance then so be it.
Look you seem book smart and understand the game good but you looking at it as YOUR video game not others video game too so you cant help make your class an lil less op to get other classes in line with it for an more balanced game
Wouldn't you like to know your good by playing on an balanced field?

I never said the Class shouldn't be re-balanced. I have played Templar since console launch and it hasn't always been what it is right now. It's been in a pretty crap spot for some time, until recently.
What I am doing is debating thread starters and commentary for unjustified nerfs with no evidence or unbiased solution for said nerf.
I've posted A LOT of feedback on Templars through various threads on where it could improve and where it's over performing; none of which ZOS takes a second glance it, though...
I'll leave it at that.

Then why instal others when they make an post maybe instead point out with good wording what the reasons are more clearly then ZOS would see them more often and not the defense and L2P and arguments were nothing gets tooken serious and then we get the kind of Nerf that we can actually get where it's just way over board itself because do do not think that maybe they it's easy enough exactly what the problems are it was a pleasure saying could be changed and how it could be implemented he might taking it a little bit more consideration if we wasn't saying you're personally attacking each other and talkingshit

Just stop dude. I've already given plenty of examples of how skills coincide with gameplay and how it could work alternatively. I've also given an abundance of legitimate arguments of why said nerfs would be bad for the class. Honestly, you can blame ZOS for your type of thinking because homogenizing classes is why we have "this skill is too OP, nerf it " threads.

Lokey0024 · October 2019

mikey_reach wrote: »

Frooke wrote: »

There is no counter play against a Magplar, even more when you play a stamblade. You lacks damage to burst a 100/0, dots won't work, your cloak won't work too, because of jabs and sweep ult will pull you out all the time, and ppl keep saying "L2P", "you got fear", "silence in incap" but any good player knows that in practice this is pretty useless againts templars

Actually good players wont even need the silence on incap, and no need to burst them from 100% if you can burst them from 80%. Just apply your poison inject heavy attack into a dodge roll proccing off balance if your cp is set up that way giving your incap a 20% damage boost, i like to make sure to use it before 120 ult so i can follow by a fear spec bow and surprise attack. I run double dot poisons to make them cleanse more than usually forcing their hand and sustain. And they wont be able to go offensive that way and usually they will run low on stam that way. And sure if the magplar is really really good then the only real problem i have with them is living dark if my 6 secs of snare immunity is down or if the are good at kiting with mist form because its easy to sustain stamina that way. But realistically speaking if they reset the fight on you then so can you on a nb. I say this because ive had these encounters and experiences in the field hence in "practice".

Or you can potl, charge, sweep, jab and hit the same easier and less chance to fail.

Nordic__Knights · October 2019

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

The_Snuff wrote: »

The fact that you gain Major Prophecy, Minor Sorcery, 3 ultimate, and apply a 40% snare when casting Reflective Light which is essentially a ranged Burning Embers damage-wise that hits up to 3 targets and in a single cast while only costing 2k magic in 5 LA combined with the overall 6% cost reduction templars get is just absolutely insane.

When you put it on paper without stating where the effects are coming from, yes I agree.
However, two of those effects do not come from Sunfire - they come from passives. Also, Major Prophecy has been bugged for years (with no effort to fix, despite numerous threads from Templar players) where it only applies if the ability does damage on your target - this was only recently "fixed" by ZOS, as mentioned/confirmed in Dragonhold Patch Notes.

the hold time of this its been said that its the passives that overloaded the skills 😆 😆 😆 if moving passives around or leasing them to make balance then so be it.
Look you seem book smart and understand the game good but you looking at it as YOUR video game not others video game too so you cant help make your class an lil less op to get other classes in line with it for an more balanced game
Wouldn't you like to know your good by playing on an balanced field?

I never said the Class shouldn't be re-balanced. I have played Templar since console launch and it hasn't always been what it is right now. It's been in a pretty crap spot for some time, until recently.
What I am doing is debating thread starters and commentary for unjustified nerfs with no evidence or unbiased solution for said nerf.
I've posted A LOT of feedback on Templars through various threads on where it could improve and where it's over performing; none of which ZOS takes a second glance it, though...
I'll leave it at that.

Then why instal others when they make an post maybe instead point out with good wording what the reasons are more clearly then ZOS would see them more often and not the defense and L2P and arguments were nothing gets tooken serious and then we get the kind of Nerf that we can actually get where it's just way over board itself because do do not think that maybe they it's easy enough exactly what the problems are it was a pleasure saying could be changed and how it could be implemented he might taking it a little bit more consideration if we wasn't saying you're personally attacking each other and talkingshit

Just stop dude. I've already given plenty of examples of how skills coincide with gameplay and how it could work alternatively. I've also given an abundance of legitimate arguments of why said nerfs would be bad for the class. Honestly, you can blame ZOS for your type of thinking because homogenizing classes is why we have "this skill is too OP, nerf it " threads.

an nurf can only be bad if 1 over done 2 not needed
And most reason their over done as others like yourself points in two different directions yes you say good things on what can be done in one place yet in other you say there not necessarily needed you book smart guys aint that smart some time's i dont get it
Not trying to install you at all just as said you have an good understanding and ways of putting thing just you seem to flip flop idk if its you like getting gutted but i think if the players community could communicate with others better than ZOS does with us then when they read it they'd have an easier direction to go in

Drdeath20 · October 2019

Oh snap weve reached the part of these threads where its nothing but insults.

Drdeath20 · October 2019

Dead thread

Drdeath20 · October 2019

I think we should nerf nova bcz nobody is saying anything about it. If you combine what it does + passives + its small cost, its just too OP

Nordic__Knights · October 2019

Drdeath20 wrote: »

I think we should nerf nova bcz nobody is saying anything about it. If you combine what it does + passives + its small cost, its just too OP

You're not helpful in any meaningful way at all dude

Drdeath20 · October 2019

It pretty much on par with all the other nerf ideas in here.

Drdeath20 · October 2019

I thought we were just randomly picking skills and making them sound super OP and providing no context or good reason to nerf it.

Drdeath20 · October 2019

Has this become a nerf sorc thread yet?