The issue with magplar

Sanguinor2

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Notice top tier players words for templar OVERPOWERED/GODPLAR/OVERPOWERED
If their calling them it how cant it be true top tier players don't know the meaning of wrods used to describe a class?

So Clickbait Video titles are now justifications for nerfs? Oh how far we have fallen.

Nordic__Knights

Can we call the learn to play stand point and negative when talking the overall power of templar ageist other classes not just skill level now and try to get to getting them into an balanced rang or we going to blame others all day

ThePhantomThorn

@Nordic__Knights
Please keep things on topic. I appreciate the support but if this goes off topic the thread will be closed
Ty

Nordic__Knights

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

@Nordic__Knights
Please keep things on topic. I appreciate the support but if this goes off topic the thread will be closed
Ty

Just putting things out to STOP the #1 standpoint when talking about anything on here as this ISSUES more then an l2p issue tho its everyone's only defence when anything is said against them if youd like ill go about my day as i myself dont have issues killing templars as im an gank build zerg stopper that gets 4-8 jumping me to kill me and i kill top tier players often few seen in these videos

Vapirko

Hey @Nordic__Knights I can play that game too! https://youtu.be/HFGv13yiq04

Nordic__Knights

Vapirko wrote: »

Hey @Nordic__Knights I can play that game too! https://youtu.be/HFGv13yiq04

Ya purple is an top tier play now show an low tier play doing the same as ive done with templar hard to find 1 videos was to show ALL tier of players find templar to be OVERPOWERED but few tiers of player will say that about nb atm if you what to keep the nb V templar as the only focus here instead of the fact that templar is overloaded in areas that no other class nb dk warden even other templars if not running same set up and close to tier as each other still pointing to the fact that their overall powered and an balance is needed

ThePhantomThorn

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

@Nordic__Knights
Please keep things on topic. I appreciate the support but if this goes off topic the thread will be closed
Ty

Just putting things out to STOP the #1 standpoint when talking about anything on here as this ISSUES more then an l2p issue tho its everyone's only defence when anything is said against them if youd like ill go about my day as i myself dont have issues killing templars as im an gank build zerg stopper that gets 4-8 jumping me to kill me and i kill top tier players often few seen in these videos

I am asking you to stop linking in random videos
That apples to you too @Vapirko

JWillCHS

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

@Nordic__Knights
Please keep things on topic. I appreciate the support but if this goes off topic the thread will be closed
Ty

Just putting things out to STOP the #1 standpoint when talking about anything on here as this ISSUES more then an l2p issue tho its everyone's only defence when anything is said against them if youd like ill go about my day as i myself dont have issues killing templars as im an gank build zerg stopper that gets 4-8 jumping me to kill me and i kill top tier players often few seen in these videos

I'm going to go ahead and bite.

1) Remove the snare on Extended Ritual.

2) Templars do not need to apply another immobility/CC effect with Living Dark

3) You can get rid of the Minor Protection passive.

4)F!ck it. Get rid of the snare on Puncturing Sweeps.

But if that's the case I'd like to see:

1)Puncturing Sweeps with no channeled effect and adjust it's damage.

I'm still going to pull you out of stealth with Solar Barrage or a set like Overwhelming Surge/Grothdarr.

Nordic__Knights

JWillCHS wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

@Nordic__Knights
Please keep things on topic. I appreciate the support but if this goes off topic the thread will be closed
Ty

Just putting things out to STOP the #1 standpoint when talking about anything on here as this ISSUES more then an l2p issue tho its everyone's only defence when anything is said against them if youd like ill go about my day as i myself dont have issues killing templars as im an gank build zerg stopper that gets 4-8 jumping me to kill me and i kill top tier players often few seen in these videos

I'm going to go ahead and bite.

1) Remove the snare on Extended Ritual.

2) Templars do not need to apply another immobility/CC effect with Living Dark

3) You can get rid of the Minor Protection passive.

4)F!ck it. Get rid of the snare on Puncturing Sweeps.

But if that's the case I'd like to see:

1)Puncturing Sweeps with no channeled effect and adjust it's damage.

I'm still going to pull you out of stealth with Solar Barrage or a set like Overwhelming Surge.

Its not about if you can pull out of stealth
Its more that due to passives behind skills that are spamable that snares opponent and heals the user it brings an unbalanced set of skills to an fight and due to CHANGES made to other classes, skills in the new combat things should be fairly the same for all classes in the game

Nordic__Knights

sweeps damage does the same if not more them other classes delayed burst damage skill yet an spammable should be higher than that?

Witar

Some templar probably touched nordic in inapropriate places, made him feel funny. Don't know why esle would anyone search all youtube for templar videos for several days. Besides any other class have those too.

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

JWillCHS wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

@Nordic__Knights
Please keep things on topic. I appreciate the support but if this goes off topic the thread will be closed
Ty

Just putting things out to STOP the #1 standpoint when talking about anything on here as this ISSUES more then an l2p issue tho its everyone's only defence when anything is said against them if youd like ill go about my day as i myself dont have issues killing templars as im an gank build zerg stopper that gets 4-8 jumping me to kill me and i kill top tier players often few seen in these videos

I'm going to go ahead and bite.

1) Remove the snare on Extended Ritual.

2) Templars do not need to apply another immobility/CC effect with Living Dark

3) You can get rid of the Minor Protection passive.

4)F!ck it. Get rid of the snare on Puncturing Sweeps.

But if that's the case I'd like to see:

1)Puncturing Sweeps with no channeled effect and adjust it's damage.

I'm still going to pull you out of stealth with Solar Barrage or a set like Overwhelming Surge.

Its more that due to passives behind skills that are spamable that snares opponent and heals the user it brings an unbalanced set of skills

Roger that, let's nerf nightblades swallow soul and cripple haha

Nordic__Knights

@ThePhantomThorn
Hey have fun dealing with the immature kids here sorry I can't be more help but I ain't dealing with this today

technohic

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Soo yes this is a nerf thread. There are a few things that are completely op about magplar.
This is from a scalebreaker perspective but I think these need to be addressed.

1. Honour the dead. I was fighting a magplar earlier this day who was just block healing all of my damage. Lasted for about a minute of just spamming heals before I got out of stam, was stunned and jabbed to death.
i think the sustain element is WAY to strong. Most classes use their burst heal as an emergency but Templar can SPAM it?

Solution: make the skill heal for more depending on hp %. So up to 50% more at 1% hp.

2. Snares. They have an aoe 30% snare wherever your fighting them. They have a (now as if dragonhold) 40% snare from getting hit once with the spammable. WAY to much. Yes there are snare immunity skills but do I really have to hit shuffle every 5 secs?

Solution: no snare on purge skill. Ez

3. Sweeps does similar damage (including burning light) to shalks, a skill that is a 3 sec time bomb. Templar can spam sweeps. Yes it can be hard to hit them but if they are stunned from gap closer then two sets of jabs unblocked, undodged, will absolutely melt people. Even with major evasion sweeps still deals more damage than any other spammable. Not only that, it gives a HEAL, minor protection, and is an aoe.
OVERLOADED

Solution: reduce damage Ez


Now to address the imminent incoming insults to my build / skill:

I run shackle + Spriggans + bloodspawn on my nightblade currently

Here’s a screenshot of my stat sheet


I think a am a decent player, I can win most fights and usually get a good kill to death ratio in bgs.

Ty for reading this longish post
Please keep comments on topic, no raging about magsorcs or cloak being op. This is MAGPLAR.

I don’t want this one closed aswell.

I'll try to address this reasonably.

1. That is the templars defense. Sorcs new twilight will have the same base value. Sure, they have to double bar it, but its 360 degree, heals 2 people for the full amount. And they also keep streak and their shield and now can get root snare immunity without RAT or vampure to help them stay a mobile class.

2. Most decent players use some sort of immunity for snares and yes; in a snare heavy position you should, just like you should keep vigor up, but I would agree ER does not need it. Jabs snare is a catch 22 related to your 3rd point which gets quite lengthy

3. So the excuse for jabs, and a correct one; is in reality outside of tooltip, you do not get that damage. Obviously major evasion takes a chunk of the damage out of it, but just moving to the side does as in case you didn't know; templars cant turn mid channel. And the snare right now is on the last hit only so if you are strafing toward the templar and to the side, you likely wont get hit by it. If you are a speedster, templars slow down when channeling jabs, so you can move away.

Now I know shalks are also avoidable, but there is a huge difference between delayed burst and what it can do in a combo vs what a spammable does.

We will likely have a problem this next update when jabs snares on every hit. I think it's a wrong buff, which will lead to needing a nerf, just like javelin ignoring armor, and living dark adding still more snare and healing.

Which makes me ask, why no mention of living dark? It will go from a root to a snare which you obviously realize templar doesnt need from point 2, and it still will be a really good HOT which as you can tell from point 1, HTD is plenty. I really think this ability is what's wrong on both those points right now and in nerfed state. It was something templar didn't need and just doubles down on strength. I have been asking for it to be an escape tool rather than more soft CC and healing, which is dumb.

Nordic__Knights

Witar wrote: »

Some templar probably touched nordic in inapropriate places, made him feel funny. Don't know why esle would anyone search all youtube for templar videos for several days. Besides any other class have those too.

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

JWillCHS wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

@Nordic__Knights
Please keep things on topic. I appreciate the support but if this goes off topic the thread will be closed
Ty

Just putting things out to STOP the #1 standpoint when talking about anything on here as this ISSUES more then an l2p issue tho its everyone's only defence when anything is said against them if youd like ill go about my day as i myself dont have issues killing templars as im an gank build zerg stopper that gets 4-8 jumping me to kill me and i kill top tier players often few seen in these videos

I'm going to go ahead and bite.

1) Remove the snare on Extended Ritual.

2) Templars do not need to apply another immobility/CC effect with Living Dark

3) You can get rid of the Minor Protection passive.

4)F!ck it. Get rid of the snare on Puncturing Sweeps.

But if that's the case I'd like to see:

1)Puncturing Sweeps with no channeled effect and adjust it's damage.

I'm still going to pull you out of stealth with Solar Barrage or a set like Overwhelming Surge.

Its more that due to passives behind skills that are spamable that snares opponent and heals the user it brings an unbalanced set of skills

Roger that, let's nerf nightblades swallow soul and cripple haha

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BillE @ZOS_BrianWheeler
can you deal with this as its 1 harassment
2 degrading
3 against the TOS

ThePhantomThorn

@technohic
So a Templar’s only defence is heal spam?
What about damage shields and hots?

As for sweeps yes you can move to the side, but not if you are stunned from the gapcloser. It lets you land at least 1 sweeps on an enemy. And it has no need to do that much, imean isn’t backlash supposed to be the burst skill? If people are not even running it in pvp because sweeps can kill fine without it, there is a problem.

I think with all the arguing about sweeps maybe Templar should get a different spammable. Like an instant cast jab.

Living dark is getting nerfed so I want to see it in the new patch before I give my opinion

Also I’d like to thank you. You are one of the few commenters who actually made a good argument. 😅

Vapirko

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

@Nordic__Knights
Please keep things on topic. I appreciate the support but if this goes off topic the thread will be closed
Ty

Just putting things out to STOP the #1 standpoint when talking about anything on here as this ISSUES more then an l2p issue tho its everyone's only defence when anything is said against them if youd like ill go about my day as i myself dont have issues killing templars as im an gank build zerg stopper that gets 4-8 jumping me to kill me and i kill top tier players often few seen in these videos

I am asking you to stop linking in random videos
That apples to you too @Vapirko

Good I love apples. Stop positing stupid nerf threads when Magplar is already being nerfed that gives another *** place for these wankers to post dumb videos with the title Magplar is OP or some ***. Like we really needed your personal thoughts on Magplar when we’ve already had a thousand threads about it and were a day away from the next patch. FFS.

Frooke

There is no counter play against a Magplar, even more when you play a stamblade. You lacks damage to burst a 100/0, dots won't work, your cloak won't work too, because of jabs and sweep ult will pull you out all the time, and ppl keep saying "L2P", "you got fear", "silence in incap" but any good player knows that in practice this is pretty useless againts templars

ThePhantomThorn

Frooke wrote: »

There is no counter play against a Magplar, even more when you play a stamblade. You lacks damage to burst a 100/0, dots won't work, your cloak won't work too, because of jabs and sweep ult will pull you out all the time, and ppl keep saying "L2P", "you got fear", "silence in incap" but any good player knows that in practice this is pretty useless againts templars

Thank you

Sanguinor2

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

So a Templar’s only defence is heal spam?
What about damage shields and hots?

As for sweeps yes you can move to the side, but not if you are stunned from the gapcloser. It lets you land at least 1 sweeps on an enemy. And it has no need to do that much, imean isn’t backlash supposed to be the burst skill? If people are not even running it in pvp because sweeps can kill fine without it, there is a problem.

I think with all the arguing about sweeps maybe Templar should get a different spammable. Like an instant cast jab.

Living dark is getting nerfed so I want to see it in the new patch before I give my opinion

Also I’d like to thank you. You are one of the few commenters who actually made a good argument. 😅

While Templar technically has a hot and a Shield they dont aid that much in defensive situations. Sun Shield is very weak, I cant even remember the last time I saw someone use it in PvP, it has been nerfed into uselessness years ago. The HoT from ritual is nice but it is stationary and only heals every 2 seconds, the recent Addition of Living dark kinda breaks this up since its incredibly strong, but yeah main defense of a templar when pressured enough is to blockcast htd.

Nordic__Knights

Yes their gap closer with it stun is very overloading as well as its an free stun at all times so even if we do roll out of ultimate or sweeps they just cap close spam for stun to sweeps and nb dont have room on bar for extra skills to counter everything and sorcs can roll out but maybe 2 or 3 times any magic classes really

Nyladreas

NBs are just in a bad spot vs Templars currently. It's not the Templars fault. They can still be outplayed although it's very difficult on a gankblade.

A traditional gankblade anyways. You gotta either switch to a different build and wait for a moment to shut them down, or go a bit more hit and run defensive route.

You can't outheal them as a nightblade.

ThePhantomThorn

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

So a Templar’s only defence is heal spam?
What about damage shields and hots?

As for sweeps yes you can move to the side, but not if you are stunned from the gapcloser. It lets you land at least 1 sweeps on an enemy. And it has no need to do that much, imean isn’t backlash supposed to be the burst skill? If people are not even running it in pvp because sweeps can kill fine without it, there is a problem.

I think with all the arguing about sweeps maybe Templar should get a different spammable. Like an instant cast jab.

Living dark is getting nerfed so I want to see it in the new patch before I give my opinion

Also I’d like to thank you. You are one of the few commenters who actually made a good argument. 😅

While Templar technically has a hot and a Shield they dont aid that much in defensive situations. Sun Shield is very weak, I cant even remember the last time I saw someone use it in PvP, it has been nerfed into uselessness years ago. The HoT from ritual is nice but it is stationary and only heals every 2 seconds, the recent Addition of Living dark kinda breaks this up since its incredibly strong, but yeah main defense of a templar when pressured enough is to blockcast htd.

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

So a Templar’s only defence is heal spam?
What about damage shields and hots?

As for sweeps yes you can move to the side, but not if you are stunned from the gapcloser. It lets you land at least 1 sweeps on an enemy. And it has no need to do that much, imean isn’t backlash supposed to be the burst skill? If people are not even running it in pvp because sweeps can kill fine without it, there is a problem.

I think with all the arguing about sweeps maybe Templar should get a different spammable. Like an instant cast jab.

Living dark is getting nerfed so I want to see it in the new patch before I give my opinion

Also I’d like to thank you. You are one of the few commenters who actually made a good argument. 😅

While Templar technically has a hot and a Shield they dont aid that much in defensive situations. Sun Shield is very weak, I cant even remember the last time I saw someone use it in PvP, it has been nerfed into uselessness years ago. The HoT from ritual is nice but it is stationary and only heals every 2 seconds, the recent Addition of Living dark kinda breaks this up since its incredibly strong, but yeah main defense of a templar when pressured enough is to blockcast htd.

I meant the lightarmour shield that all mag classes use

Nordic__Knights

Nyladreas wrote: »

NBs are just in a bad spot vs Templars currently. It's not the Templars fault. They can still be outplayed although it's very difficult on a gankblade.

A traditional gankblade anyways. You gotta either switch to a different build and wait for a moment to shut them down, or go a bit more hit and run defensive route.

You can't outheal them as a nightblade.

From encounters that I've had with Templars not only solo but will being around a group every class has a hard time dealing with Templars and it's really due to its snares ,burst damage off of a spammable and they're just overpowered in heals then add in the fact that everyone of these 3 skills is covered by passives. Damage done to blocking target, crit 10% buff,mp for 6sec.,25% chance for burning light proc , spell resistance all for using 1 of 3 skills damage skills 1 that snare you while it heals them

JWillCHS

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

JWillCHS wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

@Nordic__Knights
Please keep things on topic. I appreciate the support but if this goes off topic the thread will be closed
Ty

Just putting things out to STOP the #1 standpoint when talking about anything on here as this ISSUES more then an l2p issue tho its everyone's only defence when anything is said against them if youd like ill go about my day as i myself dont have issues killing templars as im an gank build zerg stopper that gets 4-8 jumping me to kill me and i kill top tier players often few seen in these videos

I'm going to go ahead and bite.

1) Remove the snare on Extended Ritual.

2) Templars do not need to apply another immobility/CC effect with Living Dark

3) You can get rid of the Minor Protection passive.

4)F!ck it. Get rid of the snare on Puncturing Sweeps.

But if that's the case I'd like to see:

1)Puncturing Sweeps with no channeled effect and adjust it's damage.

I'm still going to pull you out of stealth with Solar Barrage or a set like Overwhelming Surge.

Its not about if you can pull out of stealth
Its more that due to passives behind skills that are spamable that snares opponent and heals the user it brings an unbalanced set of skills to an fight and due to CHANGES made to other classes, skills in the new combat things should be fairly the same for all classes in the game

WE KNOW IT'S NOT ABOUT PULLING OUT OF STEALTH.

But I promise that if you get the changes you want, you'll be presented with another type Magicka Templar backed by adjustments that still make it effective in a different way. In my opinion, magplar is a good template for how we want other classes to perform. The class in general was just on a straight and narrow path with each patch. Most of the changes to magplar were fixing issues that were ingrained in how some abilities were coded.

Scalebreaker came along and broke the game. But it put Templar in a perfect position to be a performer. Great damage from Entropy and Reflective Light/Vampire's Bane(increase to DoT damage); and you just Sweep your target away. Living Dark is a game changer for the class because it gave it more survivability without having to be mobile and stamina reliant. And I'll agree the minor protection passive was just a bonus on top of that. Plus with all these DoTs of course an ability like Extended Ritual is going to look good.

But let say they take the minor protection away, and the CC from Living Dark. Throw in the nerfs to all DoTs and you would have a magicka Templar that was just as normal as before Scalebreaker. I'll agree that sustain damage should not look like burst damage. The DoT meta literally made my magplar do a 180 in damage.

However, if you were to take away some of those things you're asking it would change Magplar forever especially in no-CP and Battlegrounds where you really see how good the foundation is for your class/build. And because of that I think some(not all) changes you're asking for are wrong.

Sanguinor2

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

I meant the lightarmour shield that all mag classes use

Templars and dks dont use the light armor Shield in PvP.

ThePhantomThorn

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

I meant the lightarmour shield that all mag classes use

Templars and dks dont use the light armor Shield in PvP.

Some dks do, and they should. No class should just be able to tank damage in light armour.

SidraWillowsky

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Guess when up against an templar EVERYONE NEEDS TO LEARN TO PLAY

I don't know what you're trying to provide by cherry-picking videos from Youtube? Of COURSE you're going to only find and post the most OP ones done by experienced PvPers. I can guarantee those videos exist for NEARLY EVERY OTHER CLASS.

Daemonai

Forumplars are funny.

You would think they were succeeding in PVP playing an underpowered, underused class when in truth they are playing the FOTM's most overpowered and overloaded. Then they tell anyone who accurately points out that the class is overperforming to L2P. A joke.

I already knew this forum wasn't an accurate reflection of the state of the game by all of the hyperbolic "x class is dead because minor change" threads, but seeing people defend the obviously overpowered nature of Templar blows me. Like really? You haven't noticed the BG's composed of >50% Templars? Or that the top PVPers have migrated to Templar? I guess that is just incidental and in no way indicative of anything.

The nerfs, when they inevitably come, will be absolutely justified because, in its current state, Templar eclipses everything else, pun intended.

Nordic__Knights

JWillCHS wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

JWillCHS wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

@Nordic__Knights
Please keep things on topic. I appreciate the support but if this goes off topic the thread will be closed
Ty

Just putting things out to STOP the #1 standpoint when talking about anything on here as this ISSUES more then an l2p issue tho its everyone's only defence when anything is said against them if youd like ill go about my day as i myself dont have issues killing templars as im an gank build zerg stopper that gets 4-8 jumping me to kill me and i kill top tier players often few seen in these videos

I'm going to go ahead and bite.

1) Remove the snare on Extended Ritual.

2) Templars do not need to apply another immobility/CC effect with Living Dark

3) You can get rid of the Minor Protection passive.

4)F!ck it. Get rid of the snare on Puncturing Sweeps.

But if that's the case I'd like to see:

1)Puncturing Sweeps with no channeled effect and adjust it's damage.

I'm still going to pull you out of stealth with Solar Barrage or a set like Overwhelming Surge.

Its not about if you can pull out of stealth
Its more that due to passives behind skills that are spamable that snares opponent and heals the user it brings an unbalanced set of skills to an fight and due to CHANGES made to other classes, skills in the new combat things should be fairly the same for all classes in the game

WE KNOW IT'S NOT ABOUT PULLING OUT OF STEALTH.

But I promise that if you get the changes you want, you'll be presented with another type Magicka Templar backed by adjustments that still make it effective in a different way. In my opinion, magplar is a good template for how we want other classes to perform. The class in general was just on a straight and narrow path with each patch. Most of the changes to magplar were fixing issues that were ingrained in how some abilities were coded.

Scalebreaker came along and broke the game. But it put Templar in a perfect position to be a performer. Great damage from Entropy and Reflective Light/Vampire's Bane(increase to DoT damage); and you just Sweep your target away. Living Dark is a game changer for the class because it gave it more survivability without having to be mobile and stamina reliant. And I'll agree the minor protection passive was just a bonus on top of that. Plus with all these DoTs of course an ability like Extended Ritual is going to look good.

But let say they take the minor protection away, and the CC from Living Dark. Throw in the nerfs to all DoTs and you would have a magicka Templar that was just as normal as before Scalebreaker. I'll agree that sustain damage should not look like burst damage. The DoT meta literally made my magplar do a 180 in damage.

However, if you were to take away some of those things you're asking it would change Magplar forever especially in no-CP and Battlegrounds where you really see how good the foundation is for your class/build. And because of that I think some(not all) changes you're asking for are wrong.

In what you just said shows the need for balance you hear me State balance I'm not saying make them gutless I'm not saying make them worthless I'm saying balance them to other classes as they have done to other classes we're trying to get balanced yet somebody says these skills are overloaded or over performing due to the balance session it becomes an uproar with disrespect and telling people they don't know what they're talking about and then they need to learn how to play if we didn't know how to play we wouldn't be able to identify what's wrong with something

Nordic__Knights

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Guess when up against an templar EVERYONE NEEDS TO LEARN TO PLAY

I don't know what you're trying to provide by cherry-picking videos from Youtube? Of COURSE you're going to only find and post the most OP ones done by experienced PvPers. I can guarantee those videos exist for NEARLY EVERY OTHER CLASS.

The videos I showcase are from all different tiers of players I also showed cased videos of people they were killing of all different tiers of play to cut out the fact that everybody wants to try to say it's always a learn to play issue which this is not that if you would read is the reason for the videos