DPS is through the roof right now. Why are so many people still terribad at it?

Juhasow · October 2019

Grianasteri wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Grianasteri wrote: »

I believe it has been shown that the vast majority of the player base, are in the range of 10 - 25k dps.

If it were that easy, everyone would be able to do more than 30k. But most cant. So this strikes me as just another elitist post looking down on 90% of players. How do you think it feels to be someone who enjoys ESO, who plays regularly, but get told by Elitist people that they are rubbish. Stop it.

I also find it frustrating when elitist players forget that low CP to high CPs, Green to Gold weapons etc and set selection, can all account for many thousands of dps.

Its not as simple as LA>skill>LA>skill, repeat. I've seen knowledgeable, long time, 810cp players who were doing less than 15k dps.
.

It is that easy. Problem is vast majority of people dont know that. In a group You can easily do 30k+ DPS with just holding LMB as I proved here https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/484128/scalebreaker-ready-setup-for-dd-no-dlc-sets-guaranteed-dps-to-complete-veteran-content/p1 You just need to know how and vast majority of people simply dont know that and they choose to follow guides and setups for meta content that are totally not suited for them so at the end they fail miserably. That 26k on 3M dummy when You add just 1 ability to heavy attack spam turns into 50k DPS on 21M dummy. And You can hit that 30k+ in group content with any class on stamina or magicka setup and with basically CP 200+ and purple gear from non DLC content. You just need to know how and with what and that is the main issue because with the amount of sets in the game average casual player is lost.

And sorry but if long time 810 CP player is not hitting 15k DPS he is far from calling him knowledgeable. Being knowledgeable is also knowing how to pull 30k+.

I think you are missing the point, as have others and demonstrated at least in part the elitist attitude I have mentioned.

The parse you posted is using trial gear, and a monster set. Two things many players dont have for a variety of reasons. You mention purple gear, youre likely using purple or gold here, again something many people do not have for a variety of reasons. You have over 3k spell damage, something high numbers of people wont get near since they are not optimising traits and enchants, as you will have. You have max CPs, which can = thousands more dps compared to low CP.

In addition, that build is specifically set up for heavy attacks only. It wouldnt work as well on a build not set up for that. A build for instance that many people will be running from gear they pick up outside of trials or dungeons (for 2 years I did not run dungeons, let alone vet dungeons) - So no monster set either. Gear thats green or blue, that has poor enchants and traits, that may not be full 5 piece. Then factor in the fact that using skills, particularly without LA weaving (which most people are not doing), can be inefficient compared to heavy attacks and actually lower comparative dps, especially of course if no appropriate rotation is used, which will be the case for many.

You even mention part of the issue "you just need to know how"... most people dont, because they are casual gamers here to have fun, not hit dps numbers that elitists demand. You mention the average casual player getting lost, yes, they do, so why place unrealistic demands upon them and tell them to git gud.

Its like you know the issues and why the average player, i.e the majority of the player base, dont or wont do 30k+ dps, but then go ahead and demand they do and tell them its easy anyway.

It took me A LOT of hard work to get good dps numbers. LOTS of practice (and research) to LA weave properly. LOTS of grinding to obtain BIS gear (and more research). LOTS of grinding to optimise enchants and traits and improve gear to purple/gold. LOTS of grinding to get to max CP. etc. LOTS of grinding = time and effort AND desire, that the average player may not have. During this journey I was completing vet dungeons which took a few hours with fellow travellers on similar journeys. We were not any less worthy or passionate about ESO, we were just at a different stage of development, the stage that most casual/average games are at, and/or content to stay at or unable to progress from, for a variety of reasons.

This is the point, stop demanding casual, average players pull high dps, & stop telling them they are rubbish and looking down on them.
.

Ok if anyone presents elitistic behaviour here that will be You. Every time someone is coming here claiming that 20k isnt hard to reach if You put minimum effort into that and even giving tips of how to do it Your only response to that is calling that person an elitist. That is actually what an elitistic person would do. You put Yourself over the others and judge everyone based on Your imaginary view of thing , thinking that Your view is the only right one. Stop it please because it looks silly.

Now few corrections regarding Your arguments because I think it is actually You who missed the point of my post or You simply do not have enough knowledge about the game to make Your comment constructive and reasonable enough.

Yes in that parse I have 1 trial set and 1 monster helmet. Trial set that can be farmed in the easiest trials on normal mode where You need marginal DPS to complete those and monster set that You can obtain in one of the easiest dungeons in the game. But fine lets assume somebody is so casual he cannot even do that (I dont know why he would even need 25k DPS or any DPS at this point anyway). I can create replacement setup that will contain 2 dungeon sets that can be farmed in 2 very easy normal dungeons and few pieces of crafted set and DPS will be similar. You know why ? Because 20k+ selfbuffed i easy to get. It's not an elitistic comment it's a fact. And sorry but if You still think there is "variety of reasons" why people wouldnt be able to obtain 2 easy to farm dungeon sets and few pieces of crafted set I can tell You right now there is only 1 reason for that and which is called laziness.

Saying that my build is set up for heavy attacks is an overstatement. Yes I am using heavy attack there but are You really that naive to not figure out You could also add some abilities inbetween to maximize DPS ? Just 2-3 abiities more used inbetween heavy attacks would add lot of additional DPS while keeping the rotation still easy and managable for everyone and with no need to animation cancell anything. Using static rotation of 4-5 abilities will make it close to 40k while still being easy. And I choosed that setup because it's very simple one but there is plenty of easy setups which doesnt require on heavy attacks that will still do the job. That is also the reason why Your argument of high CP doesnt apply. If You can reach 25k with higher CPs with just heavy attacks You can still do it while having low CPs just by adding 2-3 abiities to You rortation because we've started from the point where brick was doing 25k+. As for the gear quaity You claim not everyone have acces to purple gear. Really ? Is it so hard to get 5k gold to make Your armor purple and 20k gold to make Your weapon gold while staying with blue jewelery(which is enough) ? 25k gold takes less then a day to collect even if You're the biggest casual so it's only the laziness that can stop You from that and sorry but veteran content in this game is not for lazy people. For that they have overland where You can kill everything with 5k DPS and even there You can find plenty of sets that can create nice and easy setups that will give You 25k+ DPS.

If people play for fun I am more then fine with that. I also play for fun. And what is not fun is seing someone who wants to participate in veteran content while not being able to deal the lowest damage required. It's not "elitist player" who demand from people to reach certain level of DPS. It is the content in the game that requires it. If You want to participate with others in certain type of content well then You have to meet requirements for it. Dont expect people will carry You simply because You think game requires too much , getting gear is too hard or boring and You dont like the combat and You should get everything instantly. That is elitistic behaviour.

I honestly dont care what was Your journey and how You got to the point where You're right now. It doesnt matter. Personal feelings and stories wont change reality and reality is if You want to , reaching 25k+ DPS is not that hard or time consuming these days.

The true point is nobody is demanding for casual player to reach certain DPS level unless that casual player wants to start participating in game end content where there is already demand set for certin level of DPS but this demand is not set by other players but by the game standards. And frankly that level of DPS isnt hard to achieve in most of the cases people just need to know how. Instead of looking for excuses for not doing that level of DPS people should start to look for solutions because there is plenty of those in the game.

Also I never demanded from casual player to pull high numbers and I never said to people that are doing low DPS they're rubbish or looked down at them. Most of the time I am usually trying to help them to solve that issue but if they present attitude similar to Yours that may be hard to do. Very often main reason those people are unable to get decent enough DPS is because of that attitude.

witchdoctor · October 2019

@Juhasow

You are right, that there is an equally toxic 'casual-ist' attitude.

b95fister · October 2019

svendf wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

Have to laugh at the people calling @kylewwefan an elitist. Putting aside where I have run with him in some pugs, nothing he said here is elitist. I despise dummy humpers and parse warriors as much as anyone. I'd rather run with a solid DPS who knows the mechanics than some clown bragging about his 100K DPS number he got on a cheese parse build.

That said, on a properly set up raid or group build with CP600+ doing a simple rotation, you should hit 30K before getting into veteran groups. You should be able to do it drunk. I'm not even talking about a meta build. But, at the same time, if your non-meta build is the reason you are hitting below 20K, then its your build. Granted, you're not going to hit 30K on your first time out, but if you are doing veteran groups, it shouldn't be your first time out.

I'm never going to kick someone in a pug if they are trying and listening. And I have never called out someone who is clearly doing both but struggling. But part of that is not spamming executes once the fight begins. The guy who refuses to alter a
bad build, look online for ideas, figure out a rotation, or "just does his own thing" in a group is just as much of a clown as the guy demanding you hit 100K or leave.

Just to make it clear YOU are NOT in a position to tell ANY, how mutch Dps player´s should do OR, how easy it is to do this and that rotation.

Just continue with your Dps crap and let´s get nerfed even more. There is no ZOS guide lines regarding Dps in ANY content in ESO.

Group up with your friends and leave these other player´s alone. You only whant it easy and only perorm better, when there are player´s in the group, who outperforms you.

Thanks

Juhasow wrote: »

Grianasteri wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Grianasteri wrote: »

I believe it has been shown that the vast majority of the player base, are in the range of 10 - 25k dps.

If it were that easy, everyone would be able to do more than 30k. But most cant. So this strikes me as just another elitist post looking down on 90% of players. How do you think it feels to be someone who enjoys ESO, who plays regularly, but get told by Elitist people that they are rubbish. Stop it.

I also find it frustrating when elitist players forget that low CP to high CPs, Green to Gold weapons etc and set selection, can all account for many thousands of dps.

Its not as simple as LA>skill>LA>skill, repeat. I've seen knowledgeable, long time, 810cp players who were doing less than 15k dps.
.

It is that easy. Problem is vast majority of people dont know that. In a group You can easily do 30k+ DPS with just holding LMB as I proved here https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/484128/scalebreaker-ready-setup-for-dd-no-dlc-sets-guaranteed-dps-to-complete-veteran-content/p1 You just need to know how and vast majority of people simply dont know that and they choose to follow guides and setups for meta content that are totally not suited for them so at the end they fail miserably. That 26k on 3M dummy when You add just 1 ability to heavy attack spam turns into 50k DPS on 21M dummy. And You can hit that 30k+ in group content with any class on stamina or magicka setup and with basically CP 200+ and purple gear from non DLC content. You just need to know how and with what and that is the main issue because with the amount of sets in the game average casual player is lost.

And sorry but if long time 810 CP player is not hitting 15k DPS he is far from calling him knowledgeable. Being knowledgeable is also knowing how to pull 30k+.

I think you are missing the point, as have others and demonstrated at least in part the elitist attitude I have mentioned.

The parse you posted is using trial gear, and a monster set. Two things many players dont have for a variety of reasons. You mention purple gear, youre likely using purple or gold here, again something many people do not have for a variety of reasons. You have over 3k spell damage, something high numbers of people wont get near since they are not optimising traits and enchants, as you will have. You have max CPs, which can = thousands more dps compared to low CP.

In addition, that build is specifically set up for heavy attacks only. It wouldnt work as well on a build not set up for that. A build for instance that many people will be running from gear they pick up outside of trials or dungeons (for 2 years I did not run dungeons, let alone vet dungeons) - So no monster set either. Gear thats green or blue, that has poor enchants and traits, that may not be full 5 piece. Then factor in the fact that using skills, particularly without LA weaving (which most people are not doing), can be inefficient compared to heavy attacks and actually lower comparative dps, especially of course if no appropriate rotation is used, which will be the case for many.

You even mention part of the issue "you just need to know how"... most people dont, because they are casual gamers here to have fun, not hit dps numbers that elitists demand. You mention the average casual player getting lost, yes, they do, so why place unrealistic demands upon them and tell them to git gud.

Its like you know the issues and why the average player, i.e the majority of the player base, dont or wont do 30k+ dps, but then go ahead and demand they do and tell them its easy anyway.

It took me A LOT of hard work to get good dps numbers. LOTS of practice (and research) to LA weave properly. LOTS of grinding to obtain BIS gear (and more research). LOTS of grinding to optimise enchants and traits and improve gear to purple/gold. LOTS of grinding to get to max CP. etc. LOTS of grinding = time and effort AND desire, that the average player may not have. During this journey I was completing vet dungeons which took a few hours with fellow travellers on similar journeys. We were not any less worthy or passionate about ESO, we were just at a different stage of development, the stage that most casual/average games are at, and/or content to stay at or unable to progress from, for a variety of reasons.

This is the point, stop demanding casual, average players pull high dps, & stop telling them they are rubbish and looking down on them.
.

Ok if anyone presents elitistic behaviour here that will be You. Every time someone is coming here claiming that 20k isnt hard to reach if You put minimum effort into that and even giving tips of how to do it Your only response to that is calling that person an elitist. That is actually what an elitistic person would do. You put Yourself over the others and judge everyone based on Your imaginary view of thing , thinking that Your view is the only right one. Stop it please because it looks silly.

Now few corrections regarding Your arguments because I think it is actually You who missed the point of my post or You simply do not have enough knowledge about the game to make Your comment constructive and reasonable enough.

Yes in that parse I have 1 trial set and 1 monster helmet. Trial set that can be farmed in the easiest trials on normal mode where You need marginal DPS to complete those and monster set that You can obtain in one of the easiest dungeons in the game. But fine lets assume somebody is so casual he cannot even do that (I dont know why he would even need 25k DPS or any DPS at this point anyway). I can create replacement setup that will contain 2 dungeon sets that can be farmed in 2 very easy normal dungeons and few pieces of crafted set and DPS will be similar. You know why ? Because 20k+ selfbuffed i easy to get. It's not an elitistic comment it's a fact. And sorry but if You still think there is "variety of reasons" why people wouldnt be able to obtain 2 easy to farm dungeon sets and few pieces of crafted set I can tell You right now there is only 1 reason for that and which is called laziness.

Saying that my build is set up for heavy attacks is an overstatement. Yes I am using heavy attack there but are You really that naive to not figure out You could also add some abilities inbetween to maximize DPS ? Just 2-3 abiities more used inbetween heavy attacks would add lot of additional DPS while keeping the rotation still easy and managable for everyone and with no need to animation cancell anything. Using static rotation of 4-5 abilities will make it close to 40k while still being easy. And I choosed that setup because it's very simple one but there is plenty of easy setups which doesnt require on heavy attacks that will still do the job. That is also the reason why Your argument of high CP doesnt apply. If You can reach 25k with higher CPs with just heavy attacks You can still do it while having low CPs just by adding 2-3 abiities to You rortation because we've started from the point where brick was doing 25k+. As for the gear quaity You claim not everyone have acces to purple gear. Really ? Is it so hard to get 5k gold to make Your armor purple and 20k gold to make Your weapon gold while staying with blue jewelery(which is enough) ? 25k gold takes less then a day to collect even if You're the biggest casual so it's only the laziness that can stop You from that and sorry but veteran content in this game is not for lazy people. For that they have overland where You can kill everything with 5k DPS and even there You can find plenty of sets that can create nice and easy setups that will give You 25k+ DPS.

If people play for fun I am more then fine with that. I also play for fun. And what is not fun is seing someone who wants to participate in veteran content while not being able to deal the lowest damage required. It's not "elitist player" who demand from people to reach certain level of DPS. It is the content in the game that requires it. If You want to participate with others in certain type of content well then You have to meet requirements for it. Dont expect people will carry You simply because You think game requires too much , getting gear is too hard or boring and You dont like the combat and You should get everything instantly. That is elitistic behaviour.

I honestly dont care what was Your journey and how You got to the point where You're right now. It doesnt matter. Personal feelings and stories wont change reality and reality is if You want to , reaching 25k+ DPS is not that hard or time consuming these days.

The true point is nobody is demanding for casual player to reach certain DPS level unless that casual player wants to start participating in game end content where there is already demand set for certin level of DPS but this demand is not set by other players but by the game standards. And frankly that level of DPS isnt hard to achieve in most of the cases people just need to know how. Instead of looking for excuses for not doing that level of DPS people should start to look for solutions because there is plenty of those in the game.

Also I never demanded from casual player to pull high numbers and I never said to people that are doing low DPS they're rubbish or looked down at them. Most of the time I am usually trying to help them to solve that issue but if they present attitude similar to Yours that may be hard to do. Very often main reason those people are unable to get decent enough DPS is because of that attitude.

SO MUCH AWESOME!

xbangax · October 2019

Juhasow wrote: »

Grianasteri wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Grianasteri wrote: »

I believe it has been shown that the vast majority of the player base, are in the range of 10 - 25k dps.

If it were that easy, everyone would be able to do more than 30k. But most cant. So this strikes me as just another elitist post looking down on 90% of players. How do you think it feels to be someone who enjoys ESO, who plays regularly, but get told by Elitist people that they are rubbish. Stop it.

I also find it frustrating when elitist players forget that low CP to high CPs, Green to Gold weapons etc and set selection, can all account for many thousands of dps.

Its not as simple as LA>skill>LA>skill, repeat. I've seen knowledgeable, long time, 810cp players who were doing less than 15k dps.
.

It is that easy. Problem is vast majority of people dont know that. In a group You can easily do 30k+ DPS with just holding LMB as I proved here https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/484128/scalebreaker-ready-setup-for-dd-no-dlc-sets-guaranteed-dps-to-complete-veteran-content/p1 You just need to know how and vast majority of people simply dont know that and they choose to follow guides and setups for meta content that are totally not suited for them so at the end they fail miserably. That 26k on 3M dummy when You add just 1 ability to heavy attack spam turns into 50k DPS on 21M dummy. And You can hit that 30k+ in group content with any class on stamina or magicka setup and with basically CP 200+ and purple gear from non DLC content. You just need to know how and with what and that is the main issue because with the amount of sets in the game average casual player is lost.

And sorry but if long time 810 CP player is not hitting 15k DPS he is far from calling him knowledgeable. Being knowledgeable is also knowing how to pull 30k+.

I think you are missing the point, as have others and demonstrated at least in part the elitist attitude I have mentioned.

The parse you posted is using trial gear, and a monster set. Two things many players dont have for a variety of reasons. You mention purple gear, youre likely using purple or gold here, again something many people do not have for a variety of reasons. You have over 3k spell damage, something high numbers of people wont get near since they are not optimising traits and enchants, as you will have. You have max CPs, which can = thousands more dps compared to low CP.

In addition, that build is specifically set up for heavy attacks only. It wouldnt work as well on a build not set up for that. A build for instance that many people will be running from gear they pick up outside of trials or dungeons (for 2 years I did not run dungeons, let alone vet dungeons) - So no monster set either. Gear thats green or blue, that has poor enchants and traits, that may not be full 5 piece. Then factor in the fact that using skills, particularly without LA weaving (which most people are not doing), can be inefficient compared to heavy attacks and actually lower comparative dps, especially of course if no appropriate rotation is used, which will be the case for many.

You even mention part of the issue "you just need to know how"... most people dont, because they are casual gamers here to have fun, not hit dps numbers that elitists demand. You mention the average casual player getting lost, yes, they do, so why place unrealistic demands upon them and tell them to git gud.

Its like you know the issues and why the average player, i.e the majority of the player base, dont or wont do 30k+ dps, but then go ahead and demand they do and tell them its easy anyway.

It took me A LOT of hard work to get good dps numbers. LOTS of practice (and research) to LA weave properly. LOTS of grinding to obtain BIS gear (and more research). LOTS of grinding to optimise enchants and traits and improve gear to purple/gold. LOTS of grinding to get to max CP. etc. LOTS of grinding = time and effort AND desire, that the average player may not have. During this journey I was completing vet dungeons which took a few hours with fellow travellers on similar journeys. We were not any less worthy or passionate about ESO, we were just at a different stage of development, the stage that most casual/average games are at, and/or content to stay at or unable to progress from, for a variety of reasons.

This is the point, stop demanding casual, average players pull high dps, & stop telling them they are rubbish and looking down on them.
.

Ok if anyone presents elitistic behaviour here that will be You. Every time someone is coming here claiming that 20k isnt hard to reach if You put minimum effort into that and even giving tips of how to do it Your only response to that is calling that person an elitist. That is actually what an elitistic person would do. You put Yourself over the others and judge everyone based on Your imaginary view of thing , thinking that Your view is the only right one. Stop it please because it looks silly.

Now few corrections regarding Your arguments because I think it is actually You who missed the point of my post or You simply do not have enough knowledge about the game to make Your comment constructive and reasonable enough.

Yes in that parse I have 1 trial set and 1 monster helmet. Trial set that can be farmed in the easiest trials on normal mode where You need marginal DPS to complete those and monster set that You can obtain in one of the easiest dungeons in the game. But fine lets assume somebody is so casual he cannot even do that (I dont know why he would even need 25k DPS or any DPS at this point anyway). I can create replacement setup that will contain 2 dungeon sets that can be farmed in 2 very easy normal dungeons and few pieces of crafted set and DPS will be similar. You know why ? Because 20k+ selfbuffed i easy to get. It's not an elitistic comment it's a fact. And sorry but if You still think there is "variety of reasons" why people wouldnt be able to obtain 2 easy to farm dungeon sets and few pieces of crafted set I can tell You right now there is only 1 reason for that and which is called laziness.

Saying that my build is set up for heavy attacks is an overstatement. Yes I am using heavy attack there but are You really that naive to not figure out You could also add some abilities inbetween to maximize DPS ? Just 2-3 abiities more used inbetween heavy attacks would add lot of additional DPS while keeping the rotation still easy and managable for everyone and with no need to animation cancell anything. Using static rotation of 4-5 abilities will make it close to 40k while still being easy. And I choosed that setup because it's very simple one but there is plenty of easy setups which doesnt require on heavy attacks that will still do the job. That is also the reason why Your argument of high CP doesnt apply. If You can reach 25k with higher CPs with just heavy attacks You can still do it while having low CPs just by adding 2-3 abiities to You rortation because we've started from the point where brick was doing 25k+. As for the gear quaity You claim not everyone have acces to purple gear. Really ? Is it so hard to get 5k gold to make Your armor purple and 20k gold to make Your weapon gold while staying with blue jewelery(which is enough) ? 25k gold takes less then a day to collect even if You're the biggest casual so it's only the laziness that can stop You from that and sorry but veteran content in this game is not for lazy people. For that they have overland where You can kill everything with 5k DPS and even there You can find plenty of sets that can create nice and easy setups that will give You 25k+ DPS.

If people play for fun I am more then fine with that. I also play for fun. And what is not fun is seing someone who wants to participate in veteran content while not being able to deal the lowest damage required. It's not "elitist player" who demand from people to reach certain level of DPS. It is the content in the game that requires it. If You want to participate with others in certain type of content well then You have to meet requirements for it. Dont expect people will carry You simply because You think game requires too much , getting gear is too hard or boring and You dont like the combat and You should get everything instantly. That is elitistic behaviour.

I honestly dont care what was Your journey and how You got to the point where You're right now. It doesnt matter. Personal feelings and stories wont change reality and reality is if You want to , reaching 25k+ DPS is not that hard or time consuming these days.

The true point is nobody is demanding for casual player to reach certain DPS level unless that casual player wants to start participating in game end content where there is already demand set for certin level of DPS but this demand is not set by other players but by the game standards. And frankly that level of DPS isnt hard to achieve in most of the cases people just need to know how. Instead of looking for excuses for not doing that level of DPS people should start to look for solutions because there is plenty of those in the game.

Also I never demanded from casual player to pull high numbers and I never said to people that are doing low DPS they're rubbish or looked down at them. Most of the time I am usually trying to help them to solve that issue but if they present attitude similar to Yours that may be hard to do. Very often main reason those people are unable to get decent enough DPS is because of that attitude.

dude wrote a whole essay lmao

Shievarei · October 2019

I dunno but it seems like in this game people encourage others or make excuses to not improve their gameplay.

I play the game at around 300 ping and so far the best I can do is 60k on the trial dummy. Just takes heart to improve. A year or two ago I was doing 20k dps and getting laughed at in groups so I decided to see what the issue was. Turns out it was not knowing how to weave properly.

Wonder what happens when groups with low dps fail dps checks.

Tsar_Gekkou · October 2019

My dps hasn't improved in a year or so because I rarely parse often or get anyone to help me with my rotation. My main is a petsorc and the highest i've ever hit on a 3mil dummy is 35.7K, with an average of 32K. I'm not sure how other people who are 810CP can't even hit 15K on classes that hit harder across the board than magsorcs. That's why i'm a healer main: My job is easier, safer, and I don't get blamed when bosses enrage and kill everyone due to low dps.

Morgha_Kul · October 2019

What gets me is that people WANT to have dps that high. My Templar has an average dps somewhere around 3k. That's right, 3000. With that much dps, I can solo pretty well anything in the game, short of some world bosses and veteran content (and even some of those).

Truthfully, I don't WANT it to be much higher than that because it would completely trivialize most of the game. Where's the fun if nothing is a challenge? Sure, it might be nice to feel that powerful on occasion, but eventually that will become stale.

Jhalin · October 2019

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

What gets me is that people WANT to have dps that high. My Templar has an average dps somewhere around 3k. That's right, 3000. With that much dps, I can solo pretty well anything in the game, short of some world bosses and veteran content (and even some of those).

Truthfully, I don't WANT it to be much higher than that because it would completely trivialize most of the game. Where's the fun if nothing is a challenge? Sure, it might be nice to feel that powerful on occasion, but eventually that will become stale.

That’s...sad

Vlad9425 · October 2019

It’s all about practicing your rotation. Also gear sets play a massive part but without a decent rotation even OP gear sets won’t pull huge DPS numbers.

leepalmer95 · October 2019

The game is so easy there is no encouragement to actually get better, they'll naturally start doing more dmg when they get higher lvl and start getting proc sets to do half the dmg for them. In their eyes they're improves a lot when in technical terms they haven't improved at all.

There is really no incentive to get better either, you can potato like 95% of this game, the only real 'challenge' they may start to have is vet dungeons but even then most of the first ones are so easy because they're designed from a time where 30k dps was god tier and there wasn't lots of stupid mechanics artificallty improving peoples dps, proc sets, light attacks doing stupid dmg, god tier ults etc...

And in the times where it they finally find a vet dungeon they can't do, usually there will be some high lvl player queueing that'll carry the whole dungeon anyway.

Grianasteri · October 2019

Juhasow wrote: »

Grianasteri wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Grianasteri wrote: »

I believe it has been shown that the vast majority of the player base, are in the range of 10 - 25k dps.

If it were that easy, everyone would be able to do more than 30k. But most cant. So this strikes me as just another elitist post looking down on 90% of players. How do you think it feels to be someone who enjoys ESO, who plays regularly, but get told by Elitist people that they are rubbish. Stop it.

I also find it frustrating when elitist players forget that low CP to high CPs, Green to Gold weapons etc and set selection, can all account for many thousands of dps.

Its not as simple as LA>skill>LA>skill, repeat. I've seen knowledgeable, long time, 810cp players who were doing less than 15k dps.
.

It is that easy. Problem is vast majority of people dont know that. In a group You can easily do 30k+ DPS with just holding LMB as I proved here https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/484128/scalebreaker-ready-setup-for-dd-no-dlc-sets-guaranteed-dps-to-complete-veteran-content/p1 You just need to know how and vast majority of people simply dont know that and they choose to follow guides and setups for meta content that are totally not suited for them so at the end they fail miserably. That 26k on 3M dummy when You add just 1 ability to heavy attack spam turns into 50k DPS on 21M dummy. And You can hit that 30k+ in group content with any class on stamina or magicka setup and with basically CP 200+ and purple gear from non DLC content. You just need to know how and with what and that is the main issue because with the amount of sets in the game average casual player is lost.

And sorry but if long time 810 CP player is not hitting 15k DPS he is far from calling him knowledgeable. Being knowledgeable is also knowing how to pull 30k+.

I think you are missing the point, as have others and demonstrated at least in part the elitist attitude I have mentioned.

The parse you posted is using trial gear, and a monster set. Two things many players dont have for a variety of reasons. You mention purple gear, youre likely using purple or gold here, again something many people do not have for a variety of reasons. You have over 3k spell damage, something high numbers of people wont get near since they are not optimising traits and enchants, as you will have. You have max CPs, which can = thousands more dps compared to low CP.

In addition, that build is specifically set up for heavy attacks only. It wouldnt work as well on a build not set up for that. A build for instance that many people will be running from gear they pick up outside of trials or dungeons (for 2 years I did not run dungeons, let alone vet dungeons) - So no monster set either. Gear thats green or blue, that has poor enchants and traits, that may not be full 5 piece. Then factor in the fact that using skills, particularly without LA weaving (which most people are not doing), can be inefficient compared to heavy attacks and actually lower comparative dps, especially of course if no appropriate rotation is used, which will be the case for many.

You even mention part of the issue "you just need to know how"... most people dont, because they are casual gamers here to have fun, not hit dps numbers that elitists demand. You mention the average casual player getting lost, yes, they do, so why place unrealistic demands upon them and tell them to git gud.

Its like you know the issues and why the average player, i.e the majority of the player base, dont or wont do 30k+ dps, but then go ahead and demand they do and tell them its easy anyway.

It took me A LOT of hard work to get good dps numbers. LOTS of practice (and research) to LA weave properly. LOTS of grinding to obtain BIS gear (and more research). LOTS of grinding to optimise enchants and traits and improve gear to purple/gold. LOTS of grinding to get to max CP. etc. LOTS of grinding = time and effort AND desire, that the average player may not have. During this journey I was completing vet dungeons which took a few hours with fellow travellers on similar journeys. We were not any less worthy or passionate about ESO, we were just at a different stage of development, the stage that most casual/average games are at, and/or content to stay at or unable to progress from, for a variety of reasons.

This is the point, stop demanding casual, average players pull high dps, & stop telling them they are rubbish and looking down on them.
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Ok if anyone presents elitistic behaviour here that will be You. Every time someone is coming here claiming that 20k isnt hard to reach if You put minimum effort into that and even giving tips of how to do it Your only response to that is calling that person an elitist. That is actually what an elitistic person would do. You put Yourself over the others and judge everyone based on Your imaginary view of thing , thinking that Your view is the only right one. Stop it please because it looks silly.

Now few corrections regarding Your arguments because I think it is actually You who missed the point of my post or You simply do not have enough knowledge about the game to make Your comment constructive and reasonable enough.

Yes in that parse I have 1 trial set and 1 monster helmet. Trial set that can be farmed in the easiest trials on normal mode where You need marginal DPS to complete those and monster set that You can obtain in one of the easiest dungeons in the game. But fine lets assume somebody is so casual he cannot even do that (I dont know why he would even need 25k DPS or any DPS at this point anyway). I can create replacement setup that will contain 2 dungeon sets that can be farmed in 2 very easy normal dungeons and few pieces of crafted set and DPS will be similar. You know why ? Because 20k+ selfbuffed i easy to get. It's not an elitistic comment it's a fact. And sorry but if You still think there is "variety of reasons" why people wouldnt be able to obtain 2 easy to farm dungeon sets and few pieces of crafted set I can tell You right now there is only 1 reason for that and which is called laziness.

Saying that my build is set up for heavy attacks is an overstatement. Yes I am using heavy attack there but are You really that naive to not figure out You could also add some abilities inbetween to maximize DPS ? Just 2-3 abiities more used inbetween heavy attacks would add lot of additional DPS while keeping the rotation still easy and managable for everyone and with no need to animation cancell anything. Using static rotation of 4-5 abilities will make it close to 40k while still being easy. And I choosed that setup because it's very simple one but there is plenty of easy setups which doesnt require on heavy attacks that will still do the job. That is also the reason why Your argument of high CP doesnt apply. If You can reach 25k with higher CPs with just heavy attacks You can still do it while having low CPs just by adding 2-3 abiities to You rortation because we've started from the point where brick was doing 25k+. As for the gear quaity You claim not everyone have acces to purple gear. Really ? Is it so hard to get 5k gold to make Your armor purple and 20k gold to make Your weapon gold while staying with blue jewelery(which is enough) ? 25k gold takes less then a day to collect even if You're the biggest casual so it's only the laziness that can stop You from that and sorry but veteran content in this game is not for lazy people. For that they have overland where You can kill everything with 5k DPS and even there You can find plenty of sets that can create nice and easy setups that will give You 25k+ DPS.

If people play for fun I am more then fine with that. I also play for fun. And what is not fun is seing someone who wants to participate in veteran content while not being able to deal the lowest damage required. It's not "elitist player" who demand from people to reach certain level of DPS. It is the content in the game that requires it. If You want to participate with others in certain type of content well then You have to meet requirements for it. Dont expect people will carry You simply because You think game requires too much , getting gear is too hard or boring and You dont like the combat and You should get everything instantly. That is elitistic behaviour.

I honestly dont care what was Your journey and how You got to the point where You're right now. It doesnt matter. Personal feelings and stories wont change reality and reality is if You want to , reaching 25k+ DPS is not that hard or time consuming these days.

The true point is nobody is demanding for casual player to reach certain DPS level unless that casual player wants to start participating in game end content where there is already demand set for certin level of DPS but this demand is not set by other players but by the game standards. And frankly that level of DPS isnt hard to achieve in most of the cases people just need to know how. Instead of looking for excuses for not doing that level of DPS people should start to look for solutions because there is plenty of those in the game.

Also I never demanded from casual player to pull high numbers and I never said to people that are doing low DPS they're rubbish or looked down at them. Most of the time I am usually trying to help them to solve that issue but if they present attitude similar to Yours that may be hard to do. Very often main reason those people are unable to get decent enough DPS is because of that attitude.

Your first paragraph literally makes no sense. There is precisely nothing I have said that is "elitist", I suggest you look up the meaning of the word.

My "response", has been to speak about some of the factual reasons the vast majority of the player base do not, or cannot, or struggle to achieve decent dps, and to provide qualitative evidence of my own journey from low dps, to good dps, an experience clearly shared by many. That is not elitist. Your response is a wall of text displaying even more elitism.

Essentially your attitude seems to boil down to, I can do it (I being the top 10 - 20% of players), so you automatically should and if you (meaning the vast majority of the player base) cannot then you are rubbish and/or lazy and none of the factual reasons that you dont/cant do it, matter. You should be excluded from "end game" content unless you can participate in the way I (top 10 - 20%) demand. THAT. IS. ELITISM.

The certain content is easier with higher dps is obviously a fact, but a separate matter.

Good day.
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Morgha_Kul · October 2019

Jhalin wrote: »

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

What gets me is that people WANT to have dps that high. My Templar has an average dps somewhere around 3k. That's right, 3000. With that much dps, I can solo pretty well anything in the game, short of some world bosses and veteran content (and even some of those).

Truthfully, I don't WANT it to be much higher than that because it would completely trivialize most of the game. Where's the fun if nothing is a challenge? Sure, it might be nice to feel that powerful on occasion, but eventually that will become stale.

That’s...sad

How so? My dps at most reached around 10k (before the recent nerfs), and at that I was starting to feel bored, because nothing was any threat anymore. As it is, I can still take on most of the content in the game, and even take on some of the harder content too (given time). To me, what would be sad is playing a game that offers me no challenge in most of its content.

Would you want to play a game where 90% of it is tic tac toe? You'd get bored quickly. To me, THAT would be sad.

hasi · October 2019

I mainly play Healer nowadays, so I can't really bother to learn complicated Rotations(Static is my Way..)or such. Especially as I only do Dungeons or Arenas on my DD, rarely Trials with "Newer Guilds", where the DPS Standard isn't that high.

If you do invest the interest and courage to enter the PvE Endgame, to which Vet Dungeons and Arenas count in my opinion, you will be heavily rewarded tho.

A lot of people in ESO sadly don't inform themselves about what is good(not best!) for said Endgame. Hell, I even see People that don't know what their own Skills do besides "Healing" or "Damaging".

Of course, now you could say that the Game doesn't properly inform you about which Set is good, which Skill completely useless for a MagDD.. That a 2H on a MagPlar is a bad choice and so on.

But come on, I started from where you did. I didn't push my lack of DPS into the shoes of the Game, I blamed myself for not showing the interest and courage to improve.

A simple YouTube Video can change anything. Your Gear doesn't have to be Dungeon or Trial Gear. It can all be crafted for the Start and blue Quality is enough there. Just try to find your way by watching a Video, maybe some more and by finding a social Guild, where people may help you with Crafting etc. or take you into some normal Dungeons/Trials.

It's not that hard.

Edit: I also think, that 15k DPS is good enough for the start. If you hit 30k after farming better Gear and trying to learn a (harder) Rotation that's really good already. You don't have to hit 100k on the Iron Atro to be useful.

Elwendryll · October 2019

There are a lot of easy simple steps to increase dps. The game does not make a good job at telling you what some of them are. If you're experienced, you have assimilated all that information, but it's not obvious for the beginners.

Some simple examples:

Max resources increase your damage:(There is a tooltip on that when you hover your mouse on a max stat in the character sheet). Most players when they start will be more likely to spread their attributes points instead of focusing on one.

Weapon sets/Enchantement:
You may be surprised by the number of people running with non-set gear or just without enchantements. Jewelry have regen enchants by default, not weapon/spell damage enchants.

Mundus Stone:
Finding the optimal Mundus stone is not that obvious. I find myself having to do math to decide between Shadow and Thieve depending on the build. Some people may have a random Mundus they found while questing and then forgot about it.

Guild skill line passives:
I'm particularly thinking of undaunted passive to max stats that is not that easy to get unless you consciously level it up.

L.A weaving (a.k.a animation canceling).
(There are a couple hints, one in a loading screen and the other in a leveling reward)
A surprising amount of people think it is some kind of bug exploit that will allow them to use several abilities in less than a GCD. They see that as an obscure and intricated technique to reach very high dps. It is very simple in concept and isn't especially physically challenging. (Actually, doing your rotation slowly with just the right amount of input can get you better dps than frantically molesting your keyboard and mouse).

CP jump points:
They're tweaking the way it works on the PTS right now, but on live, you can waste CPs by not having a full value on a star, and the game doesn't give you a clue about it.

Add-ons (PC specific): Some add-ons really help increasing your dps. The first one being CMX, you can (and should) also get add-ons that display the remaining time on your backbar abilities, like Action Duration Reminder. Light Attack Helper is also a great tool to get better at weaving. Constellation helps you optimize your blue CP. That's only a few examples.

And after that you obviously have CP level and rotation. Both take time. It takes a lot of practice to get better. But once you have a general grasp of every important principle you get better results faster. When I test a new build/rotation on the PTS for instance I can get a 5-10k dps increase over a few hours.

There are a lot of things you can miss unless you're actively working on getting better dps. And even if you have all the cards in your hands. You need to practice, a lot. It took me like 3 years at a very casual pace to go from 20k dps to 40k on 3M. Now, a new player who knows how to do research will get the same results in a way shorter amount of time.

Reaching 20k should be possible for most people with a well researched build, 300cp and some practice (Obviously if you're talented you can get way better results with lower CP). Unless you're stuck at 30k+, it's not the gear locked behind trials or some veteran DLC dungeon that is holding you back.

Conclusion: Getting decent, and then good dps is a lot of work. It becomes easy to forget the journey and assume everyone should be able to reach decent results. Most people are not playing that way, they are enjoying the game by playing content that does not require any sort of dps. It is not surprising to see max CP players with <10k dps, they were probably just enjoying the game without touching veteran dungeons before.

TL;DR: There are a lot of obstacles to overcome to get better at doing damage. It's easy to forget that when you're experienced.

hasi · October 2019

Jhalin wrote: »

What gets me is that people WANT to have dps that high. My Templar has an average dps somewhere around 3k. That's right, 3000. With that much dps, I can solo pretty well anything in the game, short of some world bosses and veteran content (and even some of those).

Truthfully, I don't WANT it to be much higher than that because it would completely trivialize most of the game. Where's the fun if nothing is a challenge? Sure, it might be nice to feel that powerful on occasion, but eventually that will become stale.

I can completely understand that you want a Challenge for yourself. Go for it, in all honesty.

But one tiny thing, I would like to say:
Please, if you do decide to put a Chain around your feet, then don't pull other People into it, when they don't want to.
By this I mean general Group Content, if you do such.

Royaji · October 2019

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

What gets me is that people WANT to have dps that high. My Templar has an average dps somewhere around 3k. That's right, 3000. With that much dps, I can solo pretty well anything in the game, short of some world bosses and veteran content (and even some of those).

Truthfully, I don't WANT it to be much higher than that because it would completely trivialize most of the game. Where's the fun if nothing is a challenge? Sure, it might be nice to feel that powerful on occasion, but eventually that will become stale.

Your average base game vet dungeon boss has about 3 mil health. With 3k DPS it will take you about 16 minutes to kill it. A dungeon usually has 3-4 bosses. So about an hour for the easiest of dungeons not counting the add packs.

I'm kinda jealous you have so much free time.

And I know that you are probably not aware but there is content in the game that is challenging even with 30-40-50k DPS.

leepalmer95 · October 2019

Royaji wrote: »

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

What gets me is that people WANT to have dps that high. My Templar has an average dps somewhere around 3k. That's right, 3000. With that much dps, I can solo pretty well anything in the game, short of some world bosses and veteran content (and even some of those).

Truthfully, I don't WANT it to be much higher than that because it would completely trivialize most of the game. Where's the fun if nothing is a challenge? Sure, it might be nice to feel that powerful on occasion, but eventually that will become stale.

Your average base game vet dungeon boss has about 3 mil health. With 3k DPS it will take you about 16 minutes to kill it. A dungeon usually has 3-4 bosses. So about an hour for the easiest of dungeons not counting the add packs.

I'm kinda jealous you have so much free time.

And I know that you are probably not aware but there is content in the game that is challenging even with 30-40-50k DPS.

You could light attack spam and get more than 3k dps though.

Rungar · October 2019

Most people play for fun and the combat system and dlc dungeon design kinda flies in the face of that a bit.

-people dont want to learn

This is true. Comments like this should be setting off red flags at zos.

People dont want to learn endless boss dances or look up a guide prior to a dungeon. The raid style mechanical model is a general hard fail for eso's playerbase. "LFG vet HM NON DLC" tells you everything you need to know.

people dont want to stand in front of a dummy until their hands hurt. They just want to play the game and learn that way. The problem is that they get kicked when they do that so they learn nothing most of the time.

classic square peg in round hole.

if eso needs any improvements its in the design of the combat system and dungeon design. Linear heavy mechanical boss fights will only engage so many people. Same thing for gimmicks like animation cancelling. It need to be less dpscentric and more teamwork oriented. Mechanics need to be more global and a little less twitchie. This is a mmo.

they have a great platform but they need better design so more people will take an interest in it. I am not saying it should be easier but i think they can do better than this.

Jhalin · October 2019

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

What gets me is that people WANT to have dps that high. My Templar has an average dps somewhere around 3k. That's right, 3000. With that much dps, I can solo pretty well anything in the game, short of some world bosses and veteran content (and even some of those).

Truthfully, I don't WANT it to be much higher than that because it would completely trivialize most of the game. Where's the fun if nothing is a challenge? Sure, it might be nice to feel that powerful on occasion, but eventually that will become stale.

That’s...sad

How so? My dps at most reached around 10k (before the recent nerfs), and at that I was starting to feel bored, because nothing was any threat anymore. As it is, I can still take on most of the content in the game, and even take on some of the harder content too (given time). To me, what would be sad is playing a game that offers me no challenge in most of its content.

Would you want to play a game where 90% of it is tic tac toe? You'd get bored quickly. To me, THAT would be sad.

3k is achieved and surpassed by light attacks. Just light attacks, as basically every level.

You would have to be avoiding light attacks, and abilities to have dps that low.

The game should be brought up to a level more suited to players older than 2yrs.

kylewwefan · October 2019

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

What gets me is that people WANT to have dps that high. My Templar has an average dps somewhere around 3k. That's right, 3000. With that much dps, I can solo pretty well anything in the game, short of some world bosses and veteran content (and even some of those).

Truthfully, I don't WANT it to be much higher than that because it would completely trivialize most of the game. Where's the fun if nothing is a challenge? Sure, it might be nice to feel that powerful on occasion, but eventually that will become stale.

Glad your having fun with the game! Really. No need to take away anyone’s fun and enjoyment.

But Some people gonna have a big problem with that if you get thrown into a VETERAN group finder undaunted daily With them. For normal, do whatever you want, but vet? No.

In other events,

Ran into a double pet Sorc guy yesterday at 225cp or so. He’s trying To learn rotation and stuff. Rocking MS Julianos Illambris Lightning Staff heavy attacks built. He Hit 11k. I’ve no idea how to help him other than focus on getting more cp first. Do normal stuff. No need to drag a vet group down to this level. That goes over like a lead balloon.

I was thinking maybe the lightning staff double pet heavy attack builds are kind of dead right now? No idea?

Feel kind of bad. Like the guy did research. Looked online for a build/ rotation. Maybe it’s old build. But is really not good. He’s trying. But it’s not working.

I also kind of suspect there’s no way all the passives needed for an effective pet Sorc would be unlocked yet or perhaps not enough skill points to allocate to it. Gear’s probably all over the place.

Basically if your character isn’t ready, there’s no need to do vet stuff unless your group is alright carrying You. I’ve done this plenty of times. Both ways.

Then by chance,

I ran a random battlegrounds the other day with a level 250 Pet Sorc rocking The Flawless Conquorer title. I know straight up this is somebody’s alt, but with much knowledge and experience; Great things are possible.

Juhasow · October 2019

xbangax wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Grianasteri wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Grianasteri wrote: »

I believe it has been shown that the vast majority of the player base, are in the range of 10 - 25k dps.

If it were that easy, everyone would be able to do more than 30k. But most cant. So this strikes me as just another elitist post looking down on 90% of players. How do you think it feels to be someone who enjoys ESO, who plays regularly, but get told by Elitist people that they are rubbish. Stop it.

I also find it frustrating when elitist players forget that low CP to high CPs, Green to Gold weapons etc and set selection, can all account for many thousands of dps.

Its not as simple as LA>skill>LA>skill, repeat. I've seen knowledgeable, long time, 810cp players who were doing less than 15k dps.
.

It is that easy. Problem is vast majority of people dont know that. In a group You can easily do 30k+ DPS with just holding LMB as I proved here https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/484128/scalebreaker-ready-setup-for-dd-no-dlc-sets-guaranteed-dps-to-complete-veteran-content/p1 You just need to know how and vast majority of people simply dont know that and they choose to follow guides and setups for meta content that are totally not suited for them so at the end they fail miserably. That 26k on 3M dummy when You add just 1 ability to heavy attack spam turns into 50k DPS on 21M dummy. And You can hit that 30k+ in group content with any class on stamina or magicka setup and with basically CP 200+ and purple gear from non DLC content. You just need to know how and with what and that is the main issue because with the amount of sets in the game average casual player is lost.

And sorry but if long time 810 CP player is not hitting 15k DPS he is far from calling him knowledgeable. Being knowledgeable is also knowing how to pull 30k+.

I think you are missing the point, as have others and demonstrated at least in part the elitist attitude I have mentioned.

The parse you posted is using trial gear, and a monster set. Two things many players dont have for a variety of reasons. You mention purple gear, youre likely using purple or gold here, again something many people do not have for a variety of reasons. You have over 3k spell damage, something high numbers of people wont get near since they are not optimising traits and enchants, as you will have. You have max CPs, which can = thousands more dps compared to low CP.

In addition, that build is specifically set up for heavy attacks only. It wouldnt work as well on a build not set up for that. A build for instance that many people will be running from gear they pick up outside of trials or dungeons (for 2 years I did not run dungeons, let alone vet dungeons) - So no monster set either. Gear thats green or blue, that has poor enchants and traits, that may not be full 5 piece. Then factor in the fact that using skills, particularly without LA weaving (which most people are not doing), can be inefficient compared to heavy attacks and actually lower comparative dps, especially of course if no appropriate rotation is used, which will be the case for many.

You even mention part of the issue "you just need to know how"... most people dont, because they are casual gamers here to have fun, not hit dps numbers that elitists demand. You mention the average casual player getting lost, yes, they do, so why place unrealistic demands upon them and tell them to git gud.

Its like you know the issues and why the average player, i.e the majority of the player base, dont or wont do 30k+ dps, but then go ahead and demand they do and tell them its easy anyway.

It took me A LOT of hard work to get good dps numbers. LOTS of practice (and research) to LA weave properly. LOTS of grinding to obtain BIS gear (and more research). LOTS of grinding to optimise enchants and traits and improve gear to purple/gold. LOTS of grinding to get to max CP. etc. LOTS of grinding = time and effort AND desire, that the average player may not have. During this journey I was completing vet dungeons which took a few hours with fellow travellers on similar journeys. We were not any less worthy or passionate about ESO, we were just at a different stage of development, the stage that most casual/average games are at, and/or content to stay at or unable to progress from, for a variety of reasons.

This is the point, stop demanding casual, average players pull high dps, & stop telling them they are rubbish and looking down on them.
.

Ok if anyone presents elitistic behaviour here that will be You. Every time someone is coming here claiming that 20k isnt hard to reach if You put minimum effort into that and even giving tips of how to do it Your only response to that is calling that person an elitist. That is actually what an elitistic person would do. You put Yourself over the others and judge everyone based on Your imaginary view of thing , thinking that Your view is the only right one. Stop it please because it looks silly.

Now few corrections regarding Your arguments because I think it is actually You who missed the point of my post or You simply do not have enough knowledge about the game to make Your comment constructive and reasonable enough.

Yes in that parse I have 1 trial set and 1 monster helmet. Trial set that can be farmed in the easiest trials on normal mode where You need marginal DPS to complete those and monster set that You can obtain in one of the easiest dungeons in the game. But fine lets assume somebody is so casual he cannot even do that (I dont know why he would even need 25k DPS or any DPS at this point anyway). I can create replacement setup that will contain 2 dungeon sets that can be farmed in 2 very easy normal dungeons and few pieces of crafted set and DPS will be similar. You know why ? Because 20k+ selfbuffed i easy to get. It's not an elitistic comment it's a fact. And sorry but if You still think there is "variety of reasons" why people wouldnt be able to obtain 2 easy to farm dungeon sets and few pieces of crafted set I can tell You right now there is only 1 reason for that and which is called laziness.

Saying that my build is set up for heavy attacks is an overstatement. Yes I am using heavy attack there but are You really that naive to not figure out You could also add some abilities inbetween to maximize DPS ? Just 2-3 abiities more used inbetween heavy attacks would add lot of additional DPS while keeping the rotation still easy and managable for everyone and with no need to animation cancell anything. Using static rotation of 4-5 abilities will make it close to 40k while still being easy. And I choosed that setup because it's very simple one but there is plenty of easy setups which doesnt require on heavy attacks that will still do the job. That is also the reason why Your argument of high CP doesnt apply. If You can reach 25k with higher CPs with just heavy attacks You can still do it while having low CPs just by adding 2-3 abiities to You rortation because we've started from the point where brick was doing 25k+. As for the gear quaity You claim not everyone have acces to purple gear. Really ? Is it so hard to get 5k gold to make Your armor purple and 20k gold to make Your weapon gold while staying with blue jewelery(which is enough) ? 25k gold takes less then a day to collect even if You're the biggest casual so it's only the laziness that can stop You from that and sorry but veteran content in this game is not for lazy people. For that they have overland where You can kill everything with 5k DPS and even there You can find plenty of sets that can create nice and easy setups that will give You 25k+ DPS.

If people play for fun I am more then fine with that. I also play for fun. And what is not fun is seing someone who wants to participate in veteran content while not being able to deal the lowest damage required. It's not "elitist player" who demand from people to reach certain level of DPS. It is the content in the game that requires it. If You want to participate with others in certain type of content well then You have to meet requirements for it. Dont expect people will carry You simply because You think game requires too much , getting gear is too hard or boring and You dont like the combat and You should get everything instantly. That is elitistic behaviour.

I honestly dont care what was Your journey and how You got to the point where You're right now. It doesnt matter. Personal feelings and stories wont change reality and reality is if You want to , reaching 25k+ DPS is not that hard or time consuming these days.

The true point is nobody is demanding for casual player to reach certain DPS level unless that casual player wants to start participating in game end content where there is already demand set for certin level of DPS but this demand is not set by other players but by the game standards. And frankly that level of DPS isnt hard to achieve in most of the cases people just need to know how. Instead of looking for excuses for not doing that level of DPS people should start to look for solutions because there is plenty of those in the game.

Also I never demanded from casual player to pull high numbers and I never said to people that are doing low DPS they're rubbish or looked down at them. Most of the time I am usually trying to help them to solve that issue but if they present attitude similar to Yours that may be hard to do. Very often main reason those people are unable to get decent enough DPS is because of that attitude.

dude wrote a whole essay lmao

And You've quoted it just to say line of text that is not even connected to the content of it but to the lenght of it. That is both silly and sad...lmao.

Juhasow · October 2019

Grianasteri wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Grianasteri wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Grianasteri wrote: »

I believe it has been shown that the vast majority of the player base, are in the range of 10 - 25k dps.

If it were that easy, everyone would be able to do more than 30k. But most cant. So this strikes me as just another elitist post looking down on 90% of players. How do you think it feels to be someone who enjoys ESO, who plays regularly, but get told by Elitist people that they are rubbish. Stop it.

I also find it frustrating when elitist players forget that low CP to high CPs, Green to Gold weapons etc and set selection, can all account for many thousands of dps.

Its not as simple as LA>skill>LA>skill, repeat. I've seen knowledgeable, long time, 810cp players who were doing less than 15k dps.
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It is that easy. Problem is vast majority of people dont know that. In a group You can easily do 30k+ DPS with just holding LMB as I proved here https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/484128/scalebreaker-ready-setup-for-dd-no-dlc-sets-guaranteed-dps-to-complete-veteran-content/p1 You just need to know how and vast majority of people simply dont know that and they choose to follow guides and setups for meta content that are totally not suited for them so at the end they fail miserably. That 26k on 3M dummy when You add just 1 ability to heavy attack spam turns into 50k DPS on 21M dummy. And You can hit that 30k+ in group content with any class on stamina or magicka setup and with basically CP 200+ and purple gear from non DLC content. You just need to know how and with what and that is the main issue because with the amount of sets in the game average casual player is lost.

And sorry but if long time 810 CP player is not hitting 15k DPS he is far from calling him knowledgeable. Being knowledgeable is also knowing how to pull 30k+.

I think you are missing the point, as have others and demonstrated at least in part the elitist attitude I have mentioned.

The parse you posted is using trial gear, and a monster set. Two things many players dont have for a variety of reasons. You mention purple gear, youre likely using purple or gold here, again something many people do not have for a variety of reasons. You have over 3k spell damage, something high numbers of people wont get near since they are not optimising traits and enchants, as you will have. You have max CPs, which can = thousands more dps compared to low CP.

In addition, that build is specifically set up for heavy attacks only. It wouldnt work as well on a build not set up for that. A build for instance that many people will be running from gear they pick up outside of trials or dungeons (for 2 years I did not run dungeons, let alone vet dungeons) - So no monster set either. Gear thats green or blue, that has poor enchants and traits, that may not be full 5 piece. Then factor in the fact that using skills, particularly without LA weaving (which most people are not doing), can be inefficient compared to heavy attacks and actually lower comparative dps, especially of course if no appropriate rotation is used, which will be the case for many.

You even mention part of the issue "you just need to know how"... most people dont, because they are casual gamers here to have fun, not hit dps numbers that elitists demand. You mention the average casual player getting lost, yes, they do, so why place unrealistic demands upon them and tell them to git gud.

Its like you know the issues and why the average player, i.e the majority of the player base, dont or wont do 30k+ dps, but then go ahead and demand they do and tell them its easy anyway.

It took me A LOT of hard work to get good dps numbers. LOTS of practice (and research) to LA weave properly. LOTS of grinding to obtain BIS gear (and more research). LOTS of grinding to optimise enchants and traits and improve gear to purple/gold. LOTS of grinding to get to max CP. etc. LOTS of grinding = time and effort AND desire, that the average player may not have. During this journey I was completing vet dungeons which took a few hours with fellow travellers on similar journeys. We were not any less worthy or passionate about ESO, we were just at a different stage of development, the stage that most casual/average games are at, and/or content to stay at or unable to progress from, for a variety of reasons.

This is the point, stop demanding casual, average players pull high dps, & stop telling them they are rubbish and looking down on them.
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Ok if anyone presents elitistic behaviour here that will be You. Every time someone is coming here claiming that 20k isnt hard to reach if You put minimum effort into that and even giving tips of how to do it Your only response to that is calling that person an elitist. That is actually what an elitistic person would do. You put Yourself over the others and judge everyone based on Your imaginary view of thing , thinking that Your view is the only right one. Stop it please because it looks silly.

Now few corrections regarding Your arguments because I think it is actually You who missed the point of my post or You simply do not have enough knowledge about the game to make Your comment constructive and reasonable enough.

Yes in that parse I have 1 trial set and 1 monster helmet. Trial set that can be farmed in the easiest trials on normal mode where You need marginal DPS to complete those and monster set that You can obtain in one of the easiest dungeons in the game. But fine lets assume somebody is so casual he cannot even do that (I dont know why he would even need 25k DPS or any DPS at this point anyway). I can create replacement setup that will contain 2 dungeon sets that can be farmed in 2 very easy normal dungeons and few pieces of crafted set and DPS will be similar. You know why ? Because 20k+ selfbuffed i easy to get. It's not an elitistic comment it's a fact. And sorry but if You still think there is "variety of reasons" why people wouldnt be able to obtain 2 easy to farm dungeon sets and few pieces of crafted set I can tell You right now there is only 1 reason for that and which is called laziness.

Saying that my build is set up for heavy attacks is an overstatement. Yes I am using heavy attack there but are You really that naive to not figure out You could also add some abilities inbetween to maximize DPS ? Just 2-3 abiities more used inbetween heavy attacks would add lot of additional DPS while keeping the rotation still easy and managable for everyone and with no need to animation cancell anything. Using static rotation of 4-5 abilities will make it close to 40k while still being easy. And I choosed that setup because it's very simple one but there is plenty of easy setups which doesnt require on heavy attacks that will still do the job. That is also the reason why Your argument of high CP doesnt apply. If You can reach 25k with higher CPs with just heavy attacks You can still do it while having low CPs just by adding 2-3 abiities to You rortation because we've started from the point where brick was doing 25k+. As for the gear quaity You claim not everyone have acces to purple gear. Really ? Is it so hard to get 5k gold to make Your armor purple and 20k gold to make Your weapon gold while staying with blue jewelery(which is enough) ? 25k gold takes less then a day to collect even if You're the biggest casual so it's only the laziness that can stop You from that and sorry but veteran content in this game is not for lazy people. For that they have overland where You can kill everything with 5k DPS and even there You can find plenty of sets that can create nice and easy setups that will give You 25k+ DPS.

If people play for fun I am more then fine with that. I also play for fun. And what is not fun is seing someone who wants to participate in veteran content while not being able to deal the lowest damage required. It's not "elitist player" who demand from people to reach certain level of DPS. It is the content in the game that requires it. If You want to participate with others in certain type of content well then You have to meet requirements for it. Dont expect people will carry You simply because You think game requires too much , getting gear is too hard or boring and You dont like the combat and You should get everything instantly. That is elitistic behaviour.

I honestly dont care what was Your journey and how You got to the point where You're right now. It doesnt matter. Personal feelings and stories wont change reality and reality is if You want to , reaching 25k+ DPS is not that hard or time consuming these days.

The true point is nobody is demanding for casual player to reach certain DPS level unless that casual player wants to start participating in game end content where there is already demand set for certin level of DPS but this demand is not set by other players but by the game standards. And frankly that level of DPS isnt hard to achieve in most of the cases people just need to know how. Instead of looking for excuses for not doing that level of DPS people should start to look for solutions because there is plenty of those in the game.

Also I never demanded from casual player to pull high numbers and I never said to people that are doing low DPS they're rubbish or looked down at them. Most of the time I am usually trying to help them to solve that issue but if they present attitude similar to Yours that may be hard to do. Very often main reason those people are unable to get decent enough DPS is because of that attitude.

Your first paragraph literally makes no sense. There is precisely nothing I have said that is "elitist", I suggest you look up the meaning of the word.

My "response", has been to speak about some of the factual reasons the vast majority of the player base do not, or cannot, or struggle to achieve decent dps, and to provide qualitative evidence of my own journey from low dps, to good dps, an experience clearly shared by many. That is not elitist. Your response is a wall of text displaying even more elitism.

Essentially your attitude seems to boil down to, I can do it (I being the top 10 - 20% of players), so you automatically should and if you (meaning the vast majority of the player base) cannot then you are rubbish and/or lazy and none of the factual reasons that you dont/cant do it, matter. You should be excluded from "end game" content unless you can participate in the way I (top 10 - 20%) demand. THAT. IS. ELITISM.

The certain content is easier with higher dps is obviously a fact, but a separate matter.

Good day.
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Yes You're acting like an elitistic person by calling everyone who doesnt agree with You an elitist. I think You should check what elitism means. One of the definitions of elitism states that it's "the superior attitude or behaviour associated with an elite" and You're doing excatly that. By calling everyone who doesnt agree with You an elitist You are actually making Yourself an elitist beliving that You're the one that knows where the root of the issue is and everyone claming otherwise in Your view is wrong because Your thoughts are superior since You are true player that knows the struggles of the community and that 10-20% of players who are elitists in Your mind dont. THAT IS ELITISM. Very toxic one btw and to be fair that behaviour is also one of the reasons people currently are unable to pull high numbers. Because they follow that belive and excuse themselves from not doing decent enough numbers.

Most of the reasons You've mentioned is far from factual and I explained in details why so I dont know why You bring this up once again. There is no issue in getting purple gear or getting the gold to improve gear to purple (or even gold in terms of weapons) quality. Also DPS we're taslking about is so low that as I mentioned it's obtainable almost by default right now in the game. That is also why Your journey doesnt matter because in the meantime things have changed and the journey You had is not necceseraly journey people will have currently after multiple improvements game recived in the meantime.

No my attitude doesnt boil to what You said. I dont know how did You got that conclusion. I can get many times more then that 20k but I proved that getting 20k+ is not an issue by showing the most simplistic method to get there that everyone can easily achieve and explained why even if You're low CP , badly geared player You can still get there. You're just presenting empty excuses. Like seriously we're talking about 20-30k DPS in group in 2019. Get real. Also once again I never used word "rubbish" stop trying create Your own narration. The "factual reasons" You present though can be called rubbish. I never said You should or shouldnt be excluded from the game end content. What I said was that since it is game end content it'll have certain minimum requirements that people have to meet. Wake up everything everywhere in our lives puts certain expectations upon people that wants to participate in that thing doesnt matter in game or in real life yet You're trying to create narration where I am the bad one for telling this out loud. Yes if You are unable to reach certain minimum DPS required then You're excluded from game end content. That is how MMO and life works. It's not me or even that 10-20% people who demands it , it's simply how world works. Welcome in real world.

Fact that certasin content is easier with certain DPS dpoesnt change a fact that every piece of content have certain minimum DPS required to be doable.

TheGreatBlackBear · November 2019

Kek

Casul · November 2019

I am currently observing two of my friends compete in a DPS race. One is at 23k the other is at 25k. It's cute how they are competitive with each other. And honestly it will help them achieve their goals. I crave the day they can be up here with me at 45k.

Kiralyn2000 · November 2019

Jhalin wrote: »

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

What gets me is that people WANT to have dps that high. My Templar has an average dps somewhere around 3k. That's right, 3000. With that much dps, I can solo pretty well anything in the game, short of some world bosses and veteran content (and even some of those).

Truthfully, I don't WANT it to be much higher than that because it would completely trivialize most of the game. Where's the fun if nothing is a challenge? Sure, it might be nice to feel that powerful on occasion, but eventually that will become stale.

That’s...sad

Not everyone has the same goals & interests as you.

The guy you quoted doesn't want to "overlevel" the content and make it trivial, so he doesn't go out of his way to maximize his performance.

Other people just aren't interested in the whole "Gotta Do My Best! Improve!" scene, and are just here to bop around, explore, play in the sandbox. (kind of like the difference between regular folks, hikers/outdoorsmen, and mountain climbers. Some are content to walk around the town park, others like to 'brave the woods' and go camping, and others look at that tall peak and think "defeat it!" But I'd hope that the Mountain Defeater wouldn't look at the person content to just hike over hills in the woods, and think "that's sad.")

edit: personally, I'm not interested in having to do homework/study/practice for my leisure entertainment. I've no interest in 'beating' anyone, I'm not interested in all-platinuming any of the games I own, I'm just here to have fun. "Fun" of course being subjective - for me, Being The Best isn't a factor in 'fun', so stressing out about that & doing the whole "beat my head against this Challenge until I conquer it!" thing isn't 'fun'. Part of why I don't bother with any of the *Souls games, too. "It took me 40 tries, but I finally beat that boss!" sounds like torture, rather than the Exhilaration Of Achievement™. /shrug

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO · November 2019

I like the OP question and statement that 30k is over the roof

) when even the most casual simpleton can pull 80k

anything under that its plain roleplaying.

Rake · November 2019

[no one cares, just saying]

iluvataris · November 2019

My son just turned 4 a few days ago. He just started playing about once a week. He pretty much only kills stuff, he is level 14. He Just learned the difference between a friendly npc and enemy npc... Many bounty's later haha. I noticed yesterday he has gotten surprisingly well at weaving light attacks and skills. Even dishing out ultimates. This is on PS4. I just got the idea to have him try a dummy parse haha. Curious. Will report back with results later tonight after work.

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO · November 2019

iluvataris wrote: »

My son just turned 4 a few days ago. He just started playing about once a week. He pretty much only kills stuff. Just learned the difference between a friendly npc and enemy npc... Many bounty's later haha. I noticed yesterday he has gotten surprisingly well at weaving light attacks and skills. Even dishing out ultimates. This is on PS4. I just got the idea to have him try a dummy parse haha. Curious. Will report back with results later tonight after work.

this only proves my point

also...you are aware this game is 18+ right?

Veinblood1965 · November 2019

Davor wrote: »

kylewwefan wrote: »

For real my people. All you have to do is lay out every dot you can think of in no particular order. Start on back bar, work your way to and through the front bar. Then start over. Ult dump whenever you feel like it. I guarantee you’re gonna hit 25 to 30k DPS without even trying hard.

kylewwefan wrote: »

For real my people. All you have to do is lay out every dot you can think of in no particular order. Start on back bar, work your way to and through the front bar. Then start over. Ult dump whenever you feel like it. I guarantee you’re gonna hit 25 to 30k DPS without even trying hard.

No excuses. No sweaty rotation nonsense. No animation cancel. This Maelstrom Staff ain’t gonna make you all of a sudden good.

Light attack, skill. Light attack, skill. Light attack, skill. Light attack, skill. Swap bar. Light attack, skill. Etc. etc. etc. start over.

Why do I constantly get in either group of terribaddy’s or godlike Monster DPS.

The ability of some humans to forget what it's like to be new in something never ceases to amaze and disappoint me. This thread should be locked.