DPS is through the roof right now. Why are so many people still terribad at it?

El_Borracho

Have to laugh at the people calling @kylewwefan an elitist. Putting aside where I have run with him in some pugs, nothing he said here is elitist. I despise dummy humpers and parse warriors as much as anyone. I'd rather run with a solid DPS who knows the mechanics than some clown bragging about his 100K DPS number he got on a cheese parse build.

That said, on a properly set up raid or group build with CP600+ doing a simple rotation, you should hit 30K before getting into veteran groups. You should be able to do it drunk. I'm not even talking about a meta build. But, at the same time, if your non-meta build is the reason you are hitting below 20K, then its your build. Granted, you're not going to hit 30K on your first time out, but if you are doing veteran groups, it shouldn't be your first time out.

I'm never going to kick someone in a pug if they are trying and listening. And I have never called out someone who is clearly doing both but struggling. But part of that is not spamming executes once the fight begins. The guy who refuses to alter a
bad build, look online for ideas, figure out a rotation, or "just does his own thing" in a group is just as much of a clown as the guy demanding you hit 100K or leave.

Agenericname

El_Borracho wrote: »

Have to laugh at the people calling @kylewwefan an elitist. Putting aside where I have run with him in some pugs, nothing he said here is elitist. I despise dummy humpers and parse warriors as much as anyone. I'd rather run with a solid DPS who knows the mechanics than some clown bragging about his 100K DPS number he got on a cheese parse build.

That said, on a properly set up raid or group build with CP600+ doing a simple rotation, you should hit 30K before getting into veteran groups. You should be able to do it drunk. I'm not even talking about a meta build. But, at the same time, if your non-meta build is the reason you are hitting below 20K, then its your build. Granted, you're not going to hit 30K on your first time out, but if you are doing veteran groups, it shouldn't be your first time out.

I'm never going to kick someone in a pug if they are trying and listening. And I have never called out someone who is clearly doing both but struggling. But part of that is not spamming executes once the fight begins. The guy who refuses to alter a
bad build, look online for ideas, figure out a rotation, or "just does his own thing" in a group is just as much of a clown as the guy demanding you hit 100K or leave.

I dunno, I think when you PUG a vet dungeon and call people out for not getting a 10 minute clear, you're definitely dancing on the elitist line.

Odovacar

Agenericname wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

Have to laugh at the people calling @kylewwefan an elitist. Putting aside where I have run with him in some pugs, nothing he said here is elitist. I despise dummy humpers and parse warriors as much as anyone. I'd rather run with a solid DPS who knows the mechanics than some clown bragging about his 100K DPS number he got on a cheese parse build.

That said, on a properly set up raid or group build with CP600+ doing a simple rotation, you should hit 30K before getting into veteran groups. You should be able to do it drunk. I'm not even talking about a meta build. But, at the same time, if your non-meta build is the reason you are hitting below 20K, then its your build. Granted, you're not going to hit 30K on your first time out, but if you are doing veteran groups, it shouldn't be your first time out.

I'm never going to kick someone in a pug if they are trying and listening. And I have never called out someone who is clearly doing both but struggling. But part of that is not spamming executes once the fight begins. The guy who refuses to alter a
bad build, look online for ideas, figure out a rotation, or "just does his own thing" in a group is just as much of a clown as the guy demanding you hit 100K or leave.

I dunno, I think when you PUG a vet dungeon and call people out for not getting a 10 minute clear, you're definitely dancing on the elitist line.

Dancing on the elitist line...lol. I haven't played with the OP but from seeing how he posts over my time here he's anything but an elitist. Oh, but he's dancing on a fine line with you...LOL.

cyclonus11

Because light attacks fire off maybe half the time.

rotaugen454

If I’m tanking in a PUG, they’ll at least get my Torug’s weakening and crusher. That should help a bit. But, before I run with anyone, I make them send a copy of their credit report. Is that elitist?

kylewwefan

You gonna take half hour in BC1 or Elden hollow, maybe CoH1 and not be a little upset with the group? Lol How about 45 minutes in FG2? Or maybe BC2....they just can’t do it. Holding on to a dozen deadroth. Boss is healed all the way back up.

This the kind of nonsense I get like every day.

I try and help people out. Many a times some squeaker yells at me. “ don’t tell me how to play my game old man”

It’s such a blessing when I can get a guildie to help me out. Except for the one guy that thinks food is for wimps.

rotaugen454

kylewwefan wrote: »

You gonna take half hour in BC1 or Elden hollow, maybe CoH1 and not be a little upset with the group? Lol How about 45 minutes in FG2? Or maybe BC2....they just can’t do it. Holding on to a dozen deadroth. Boss is healed all the way back up.

This the kind of nonsense I get like every day.

I try and help people out. Many a times some squeaker yells at me. “ don’t tell me how to play my game old man”

It’s such a blessing when I can get a guildie to help me out. Except for the one guy that thinks food is for wimps.

It’s frustrating yet also rewarding IF the group is willing to learn and play the mechanics. Since beta, I think that I have quit on a group 3 times, and it was when they wouldn’t listen about mechanics and told me to be quiet. I’ve had FG2 last over 45 minutes but the group learned and there was a feeling of accomplishment. I’ve had PUG runs with 3 highly skilled players that practically was a sprint through the dungeon. Nice and quick, but it felt like just pushing an “I win” button. I’ll work with anyone willing to learn, and I’ll listen to those who know things I don’t.

Watchdog

Well, I am a fresh CP 810 player, and I still don't know how exactly some things work in the game. I am casual, I play for fun, I am here for the stories, for the exploration of the world of Elder Scrolls, to relax, to relieve stress from work. I don't need a second job, the one that earns me my money is more than enough for me, thank you very much.

I create my own builds, some I have been able to solo some Normal Dungeons with, which may seem trivial and even laughable to endgame veterans, but for me, any build capable of soloing the Fungal Grotto I dungeon passes a trial by fire, so to speak. I have absolutely no idea how much DPS am I doing, though.

kylewwefan wrote: »

Remember Penetration is still a thing

Yeah, except I don't know how exactly does it work.

In dungeons, the likelyhood You’re gonna get infused tourgs crusher, alkosh, minor fracture..are slim to non existent. You can count on breech and fracture.

No idea what do you mean by that. Really, I have absolutely no clue. I do not understand those terms, at least not all od them, and not in this context. I know Infused is a trait, Minore Fracture and Breech are some sort of buffs/debuffs. The rest? Erm... English, please?

So it’s like this: 18200-5280= 12920

That’s how much penetration you gotta come up with so your damage is better. You don’t have to do it all, but make an attempt to get closer to zero.

No idea what the 18200 and 5280 mean. No idea what is the resulting 12920 about. Is it high enough? Low enough? Good enough? Terribad? *shrugs*

Sadly, It’s not written anywhere In the game; but the devs have made it a thing that us players do have to deal with.

Penetration is odd. I have noticed it seems to help melt adds much quicker but Damage starts slowing down on bosses.

I was shocked when I saw that Penetration is not shown anywhere. Luckily, a guildie suggested an add-on displaying more character stats. I still have no clue how exactly Penetration works, though.

Just my two Eurocents, from the point of view of someone having lots of fun in the game, despite of all the lack of the knowledge displayed above.

mattaeus01b16_ESO

Me, to a 900cp Magplar? "What kind of damage are you doing?"

Magplar... We will call him Bob "Oh, pretty good damage"

Me "Huh? Im just asking because I dont really see you casting anything"

Bob "Dont have to. You know, my heavy attack with my lighting staff does at least 8000dmg, plus it also damages mobs around my target"

Me "So your not casting anything? Just heavy attack??"

Bob "I do keep 2 shields on my bar to keep myself alive... Saves the healer from healing me all the time"
(Bob has died a lot... A LOT)

Me "So whats on your other bar?!"

Bob "Sword and shield in case I have to tank"

Me "Have you ever tried killing a target dummy?"

Bob "Yeah, I have 2 in my home. But they are glitched out"

Me "How so?"

Bob "I'll attack it, but the health bar dosnt move on it"

I really want to keep going on, but this is bringing back bad memories... In the end, he refused to do things different because his way worked better...

Juhasow

Grianasteri wrote: »

I believe it has been shown that the vast majority of the player base, are in the range of 10 - 25k dps.

If it were that easy, everyone would be able to do more than 30k. But most cant. So this strikes me as just another elitist post looking down on 90% of players. How do you think it feels to be someone who enjoys ESO, who plays regularly, but get told by Elitist people that they are rubbish. Stop it.

I also find it frustrating when elitist players forget that low CP to high CPs, Green to Gold weapons etc and set selection, can all account for many thousands of dps.

Its not as simple as LA>skill>LA>skill, repeat. I've seen knowledgeable, long time, 810cp players who were doing less than 15k dps.
.

It is that easy. Problem is vast majority of people dont know that. In a group You can easily do 30k+ DPS with just holding LMB as I proved here https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/484128/scalebreaker-ready-setup-for-dd-no-dlc-sets-guaranteed-dps-to-complete-veteran-content/p1 You just need to know how and vast majority of people simply dont know that and they choose to follow guides and setups for meta content that are totally not suited for them so at the end they fail miserably. That 26k on 3M dummy when You add just 1 ability to heavy attack spam turns into 50k DPS on 21M dummy. And You can hit that 30k+ in group content with any class on stamina or magicka setup and with basically CP 200+ and purple gear from non DLC content. You just need to know how and with what and that is the main issue because with the amount of sets in the game average casual player is lost.

And sorry but if long time 810 CP player is not hitting 15k DPS he is far from calling him knowledgeable. Being knowledgeable is also knowing how to pull 30k+.

Orjix

JinMori wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

TriangularChicken wrote: »

You pretend as if there is no information and advice on the internet which is not true - even the biggest noobs that live under a rock should know the name Alcast by know. He has a lot of advice on his website, is that not decent acting of him? And yet people refuse to take his help and get better. They come to the forums and cry for nerfs, they want to add a dps cap (lmao) to the game, etc etc.

Some people don't want to do homework, just to play a game. They play the games to relax from their homework/real work/etc.


(Alcast? Oh, yeah - one of those streamer people that get somehow idolized by 'pro gamers' for being more pro? Like that TotalBiscuit guy for WoW back when I was playing that game? Yeah, I ignore that whole scene, along with all the other Massive Egos that try to act like they're the Voice Of Gaming. Angry ranting reviewers, some Jim guy?, etc.... meh, no thanks.)

Lol, you seem to know quite a few things for someone who is supposedly ignoring it all....

The cognitive dissonance man.

When you see comments like this, you need to understand that it's not a comment to give a critique, or even a suggestion, if anything at all really, it's purely a comment to bash people who are better than you, and even worse, they are actually trying to help you for the most part, and you refuse that help, and call them elitist, or *** or whatever, usually out of envy.

Get real man, don't play this i don't care bs, everyone with half a brain cell can see through your charade.

no, no. you can ignore it all and still be aware of the names, ive played for over 4 years, and i JUST learned who alcast is. Note that in the past i would be able to recognize the name and say "yeah, he has something to do with ESO" but i couldnt tell you beyond that, nor did i care.your comment doesnt help either, and i stand with the original point, some people don't care. they want to play this game, and dont care if they are "good" or get "good" dps, is an elder scrolls game that happens to be an MMO rather than an MMO that happens to be elder scrolls. people want to play the game like a main line ES game, so let them. let them be able to see all the content. let them do all the things, who cares?

azjuwelz

1. I wish the OP had prefaced his post with the statement that this was for max CP players. When you're actually *trying* to get better and still can't seem to hit the numbers but you're still low CP, it's insulting to be told that a toaster can do better than you, and not helpful at all. Also, apparently I've been parsing on the wrong dummy, so I'll have to see what my parse is on that stupid trial dummy. I've been able to clear some vet DLCs but only with higher CP guildmates. I know that I'm still learning.

2. To the poster who said there are no guilds willing to help players learn and start to try vet and trial content, I say that at least on xbox NA there are such guilds, and I'm an officer in one of them. And I'd say that we've had to explain builds, SETS, ATTRIBUTES, rotations, PASSIVES, and many other things to about 80% of our members.

Hell, we've even had to explain how to sell with the guild trader.

So yeah, there's a lot less knowledge out there, at least in console-land, than many here can even imagine.

D0PAMINE

Watchdog wrote: »

I create my own builds, some I have been able to solo some Normal Dungeons with, which may seem trivial and even laughable to endgame veterans, but for me, any build capable of soloing the Fungal Grotto I dungeon passes a trial by fire, so to speak. I have absolutely no idea how much DPS am I doing, though.

It's not laughable. Keep it up, pick up some insight here and there and you'll eventually move to soloing vet dungeons. Keep trying.

b95fister

Watchdog wrote: »

Well, I am a fresh CP 810 player, and I still don't know how exactly some things work in the game. I am casual, I play for fun, I am here for the stories, for the exploration of the world of Elder Scrolls, to relax, to relieve stress from work. I don't need a second job, the one that earns me my money is more than enough for me, thank you very much.

I create my own builds, some I have been able to solo some Normal Dungeons with, which may seem trivial and even laughable to endgame veterans, but for me, any build capable of soloing the Fungal Grotto I dungeon passes a trial by fire, so to speak. I have absolutely no idea how much DPS am I doing, though.

kylewwefan wrote: »

Remember Penetration is still a thing

Yeah, except I don't know how exactly does it work.

In dungeons, the likelyhood You’re gonna get infused tourgs crusher, alkosh, minor fracture..are slim to non existent. You can count on breech and fracture.

No idea what do you mean by that. Really, I have absolutely no clue. I do not understand those terms, at least not all od them, and not in this context. I know Infused is a trait, Minore Fracture and Breech are some sort of buffs/debuffs. The rest? Erm... English, please?

So it’s like this: 18200-5280= 12920

That’s how much penetration you gotta come up with so your damage is better. You don’t have to do it all, but make an attempt to get closer to zero.

No idea what the 18200 and 5280 mean. No idea what is the resulting 12920 about. Is it high enough? Low enough? Good enough? Terribad? *shrugs*

Sadly, It’s not written anywhere In the game; but the devs have made it a thing that us players do have to deal with.

Penetration is odd. I have noticed it seems to help melt adds much quicker but Damage starts slowing down on bosses.

I was shocked when I saw that Penetration is not shown anywhere. Luckily, a guildie suggested an add-on displaying more character stats. I still have no clue how exactly Penetration works, though.

Just my two Eurocents, from the point of view of someone having lots of fun in the game, despite of all the lack of the knowledge displayed above.

Here’s back the thing man that’s great you have fun and wanna play only for fun. Not saying that you do but doing dlc or a select few vet dungeons require a TEAM to work together. You should know the dps you are doing that is how you, as a dps help your team. Once you know you your base you can improve choosing not to know is fine and all when by yourself but not when you are working as a TEAM.

I love to help out anyone that wants it, or doesn’t but keeps dieing to the same mechanic over and over. Or just can’t do enough damage to free me from the pin in FG2. This is what the op is talking about. 5 years into a game and refusing to attempt to try to even know your dps. Wow Just wow.

Watchdog

b95fister wrote: »

Watchdog wrote: »

Well, I am a fresh CP 810 player, and I still don't know how exactly some things work in the game. I am casual, I play for fun, I am here for the stories, for the exploration of the world of Elder Scrolls, to relax, to relieve stress from work. I don't need a second job, the one that earns me my money is more than enough for me, thank you very much.

I create my own builds, some I have been able to solo some Normal Dungeons with, which may seem trivial and even laughable to endgame veterans, but for me, any build capable of soloing the Fungal Grotto I dungeon passes a trial by fire, so to speak. I have absolutely no idea how much DPS am I doing, though.

kylewwefan wrote: »

Remember Penetration is still a thing

Yeah, except I don't know how exactly does it work.

In dungeons, the likelyhood You’re gonna get infused tourgs crusher, alkosh, minor fracture..are slim to non existent. You can count on breech and fracture.

No idea what do you mean by that. Really, I have absolutely no clue. I do not understand those terms, at least not all od them, and not in this context. I know Infused is a trait, Minore Fracture and Breech are some sort of buffs/debuffs. The rest? Erm... English, please?

So it’s like this: 18200-5280= 12920

That’s how much penetration you gotta come up with so your damage is better. You don’t have to do it all, but make an attempt to get closer to zero.

No idea what the 18200 and 5280 mean. No idea what is the resulting 12920 about. Is it high enough? Low enough? Good enough? Terribad? *shrugs*

Sadly, It’s not written anywhere In the game; but the devs have made it a thing that us players do have to deal with.

Penetration is odd. I have noticed it seems to help melt adds much quicker but Damage starts slowing down on bosses.

I was shocked when I saw that Penetration is not shown anywhere. Luckily, a guildie suggested an add-on displaying more character stats. I still have no clue how exactly Penetration works, though.

Just my two Eurocents, from the point of view of someone having lots of fun in the game, despite of all the lack of the knowledge displayed above.

Here’s back the thing man that’s great you have fun and wanna play only for fun. Not saying that you do but doing dlc or a select few vet dungeons require a TEAM to work together. You should know the dps you are doing that is how you, as a dps help your team. Once you know you your base you can improve choosing not to know is fine and all when by yourself but not when you are working as a TEAM.

I love to help out anyone that wants it, or doesn’t but keeps dieing to the same mechanic over and over. Or just can’t do enough damage to free me from the pin in FG2. This is what the op is talking about. 5 years into a game and refusing to attempt to try to even know your dps. Wow Just wow.

Well, the endgame requires a lot of grinding of content I do not find fun doing again and again, as nauseam. I don't PvP. At all. Caltrops and Vigor are out of my reach. Trials reliably kill my connection upon entering. I am probably going to be limited to veteran dungeons and World Bosses as my endgame content. I am in an amazing guild that does a lot of guild runs through all sorts of content.

I started playing in July 2018. When I reached CP 160 with my main character, a Khajiit Stamina Templar, I tried a dummy parse once, but I was totally clueless. Would you believe I destroyed the Dwemer Centurion almost exclusively with Bloodthirst and Whirlwind, plus a few Heavy attacks and such? No Jabs? For just over 5k DPS... The poor thing most likely died of sheer boredom, rather than my puny poking it with me pointy sticks.

I only started collecting Monster sets a few months ago, and mostly from the Golden merchant, with some shoulders from the keys I got on my army of alts from reward boxes during various events. I wish I had found out about the Golden merchant sooner. Many new players reach into the hundreds of CP without knowing any such merchant exists. 100k gold per item is s lot for newish players without a steady, reliable source of income, though. Bless the daily crafting writs.

I do plan to get a combat metrics add-on in the future again, however, it is somewhere near the bottom of the huge trunk full of my priorities. I am having fun without it, you see.

Grianasteri

Wrexsoul wrote: »

Grianasteri wrote: »

I believe it has been shown that the vast majority of the player base, are in the range of 10 - 25k dps.

If it were that easy, everyone would be able to do more than 30k. But most cant. So this strikes me as just another elitist post looking down on 90% of players. How do you think it feels to be someone who enjoys ESO, who plays regularly, but get told by Elitist people that they are rubbish. Stop it.

I also find it frustrating when elitist players forget that low CP to high CPs, Green to Gold weapons etc and set selection, can all account for many thousands of dps.

Its not as simple as LA>skill>LA>skill, repeat. I've seen knowledgeable, long time, 810cp players who were doing less than 15k dps..

810 players doing less than 15k are not knowledgeable about the combat system. If all I use is light attack and a spammable on my DPS character I can do 20k+ so people who are doing less than that are in fact not playing optimally and severely lack an understanding of the combat system. CP matters but only slightly. I was able to do 27k DPS at CP 160 with a very basic understanding of the combat system. People using green/blue weapons in vet dungeons are ridiculous given how easy it is to upgrade gear. There is nothing elitist about expecting people in high level content to be able to perform appropriately.

Refusing to weave and upgrade sets is just being lazy. It is unreal that people are choosing to handicap their groups and get carried through content instead of diving into the combat system and learning how to play.

Another elitist attitude, looking down on the vast majority of the player base, because they do not play like, or think like you do.

You seem to have completely missed the point(s).

1) I did not say knowledgeable about the combat system, you did.
2) You can only use a LA+spam to do 20k+, with high CP, allocated correctly, with good sets and probably gold weapons/gear. Which is precisely the point, that doesnt reflect the majority of the player base.
3) Suggesting CP only matters slightly, is just plain wrong. Its good for at least 10% extra damage and for some types of damage, 25%, such as LAs. Overall, with crit cps, penetration cps, damage cps etc, its anything but slight.
4) Why are you referencing vet dungeons with regards to green/blue gear? Again, your elitist attitude. Vast numbers of players either cannot or do not engage with vet content. Many people run with green or blue gear, for a variety of reasons. Its as simple as that.
5) There is everything elitist about expecting the average, casual player, which is what 90% of players are, to be able to have similar knowledge, standards and abilities as players who sink vast amounts of time and effort into gaming and form the top 10-20%, who can pull 40k+ dps etc.
6) Few, if anyone, is refusing to weave. Most people have literally no idea what weaving is. If one simply follows a tool tip to add light attacks, that will actually damage dps unless one learns to animation cancel. Again you are coming at this as a high CP elitist, lacking basic understanding as to how most people approach and enjoy ESO.
7) No one is choosing to handicap a group. They are choosing to play ESO. They dont have to do so, how you and other elitist players demand they do, and most dont even know how to even if they wanted to.

svendf

El_Borracho wrote: »

Have to laugh at the people calling @kylewwefan an elitist. Putting aside where I have run with him in some pugs, nothing he said here is elitist. I despise dummy humpers and parse warriors as much as anyone. I'd rather run with a solid DPS who knows the mechanics than some clown bragging about his 100K DPS number he got on a cheese parse build.

That said, on a properly set up raid or group build with CP600+ doing a simple rotation, you should hit 30K before getting into veteran groups. You should be able to do it drunk. I'm not even talking about a meta build. But, at the same time, if your non-meta build is the reason you are hitting below 20K, then its your build. Granted, you're not going to hit 30K on your first time out, but if you are doing veteran groups, it shouldn't be your first time out.

I'm never going to kick someone in a pug if they are trying and listening. And I have never called out someone who is clearly doing both but struggling. But part of that is not spamming executes once the fight begins. The guy who refuses to alter a
bad build, look online for ideas, figure out a rotation, or "just does his own thing" in a group is just as much of a clown as the guy demanding you hit 100K or leave.

Just to make it clear YOU are NOT in a position to tell ANY, how mutch Dps player´s should do OR, how easy it is to do this and that rotation.

Just continue with your Dps crap and let´s get nerfed even more. There is no ZOS guide lines regarding Dps in ANY content in ESO.

Group up with your friends and leave these other player´s alone. You only whant it easy and only perorm better, when there are player´s in the group, who outperforms you.

Thanks

Casul

Grianasteri wrote: »

Wrexsoul wrote: »

Grianasteri wrote: »

I believe it has been shown that the vast majority of the player base, are in the range of 10 - 25k dps.

If it were that easy, everyone would be able to do more than 30k. But most cant. So this strikes me as just another elitist post looking down on 90% of players. How do you think it feels to be someone who enjoys ESO, who plays regularly, but get told by Elitist people that they are rubbish. Stop it.

I also find it frustrating when elitist players forget that low CP to high CPs, Green to Gold weapons etc and set selection, can all account for many thousands of dps.

Its not as simple as LA>skill>LA>skill, repeat. I've seen knowledgeable, long time, 810cp players who were doing less than 15k dps..

810 players doing less than 15k are not knowledgeable about the combat system. If all I use is light attack and a spammable on my DPS character I can do 20k+ so people who are doing less than that are in fact not playing optimally and severely lack an understanding of the combat system. CP matters but only slightly. I was able to do 27k DPS at CP 160 with a very basic understanding of the combat system. People using green/blue weapons in vet dungeons are ridiculous given how easy it is to upgrade gear. There is nothing elitist about expecting people in high level content to be able to perform appropriately.

Refusing to weave and upgrade sets is just being lazy. It is unreal that people are choosing to handicap their groups and get carried through content instead of diving into the combat system and learning how to play.

Another elitist attitude, looking down on the vast majority of the player base, because they do not play like, or think like you do.

You seem to have completely missed the point(s).

1) I did not say knowledgeable about the combat system, you did.
2) You can only use a LA+spam to do 20k+, with high CP, allocated correctly, with good sets and probably gold weapons/gear. Which is precisely the point, that doesnt reflect the majority of the player base.
3) Suggesting CP only matters slightly, is just plain wrong. Its good for at least 10% extra damage and for some types of damage, 25%, such as LAs. Overall, with crit cps, penetration cps, damage cps etc, its anything but slight.
4) Why are you referencing vet dungeons with regards to green/blue gear? Again, your elitist attitude. Vast numbers of players either cannot or do not engage with vet content. Many people run with green or blue gear, for a variety of reasons. Its as simple as that.
5) There is everything elitist about expecting the average, casual player, which is what 90% of players are, to be able to have similar knowledge, standards and abilities as players who sink vast amounts of time and effort into gaming and form the top 10-20%, who can pull 40k+ dps etc.
6) Few, if anyone, is refusing to weave. Most people have literally no idea what weaving is. If one simply follows a tool tip to add light attacks, that will actually damage dps unless one learns to animation cancel. Again you are coming at this as a high CP elitist, lacking basic understanding as to how most people approach and enjoy ESO.
7) No one is choosing to handicap a group. They are choosing to play ESO. They dont have to do so, how you and other elitist players demand they do, and most dont even know how to even if they wanted to.

Their is a big difference between being an elitist and having some mutual expectations of other players running group content.

I worked very hard getting my PvE build together in order to pull the numbers I do, 50k+ 3mil, which I understand is a pretty unreasonable expectation for most players.

But I doubt anyone here you are labeling elitist is asking people to pull 40k+, most are just asking to optimize yourself for group content.

You don't need 30k health and 25k resistance as a DPS. For everyone that says "Well a dead DPS does 0 damage". Guess what? If you kill stuff faster, then it doesn't get the chance to kill you.

And that's beside the fact that tanks and healers exist.

Neoealth

People who have terrible dps are mostly just very casual people who could not care less what others think I would imagine. I think that because I used to be one of them. I used to only play now and again for a few hours, mostly single player questing but with the odd random dungeon thrown in, and that was mostly just for the story quest that was inside.

And my dps was bad, I had no rotation, I just cast what i liked, didn't weave light attacks. But for me that changed when during one run the tank started to give me advice and offered to help me with gear. We ended up becoming friends and I joined his guild. Since then I started to enjoy being able to be as effective as I can. Once a basic understanding of how the game works kicks of in your head it will trigger more interest and it becomes quite fun to try and max out your ability.

But even now I don't take it too seriously as some do, I only do about 35k dmg which as people know is nothing great anymore. But it's acceptable. And as long as you're pulling your weight in a group then pushing yourself to extremes is not worth it (unless you find that fun then go ahead and knock yourself out)

Hallothiel

Played for a couple of years solo without a clue (played like this was an rpg - not going to tell you what i was wearing/where put attribute points!) & managed ok - got to max Vet level before cp came in.

Was only when i wanted to do dungeons etc that I looked into joining a guild. Who helped me & taught me a huge amount. So now do vet trials, and have a vaguely better understanding of gear & cp etc.

But still fecking hate practicing rotations. Come to play, not get frustrated standing in front of a dummy trying to prove something.

Point is, the game does a bad job at preparing you for ‘end game’ etc. Said ages ago there should be ways to learn, (such as dungeon runs with npcs so can try tanking or healing.) Even some better advice for dds would be helpful.

Not everyone has the time or patience to get to stupid dps levels, but a bit more in-game help might mean the average can get a bit higher.

Rungar

The combat system is an embarrassment and a lead weight around the neck of the game.

Grianasteri

Juhasow wrote: »

Grianasteri wrote: »

I believe it has been shown that the vast majority of the player base, are in the range of 10 - 25k dps.

If it were that easy, everyone would be able to do more than 30k. But most cant. So this strikes me as just another elitist post looking down on 90% of players. How do you think it feels to be someone who enjoys ESO, who plays regularly, but get told by Elitist people that they are rubbish. Stop it.

I also find it frustrating when elitist players forget that low CP to high CPs, Green to Gold weapons etc and set selection, can all account for many thousands of dps.

Its not as simple as LA>skill>LA>skill, repeat. I've seen knowledgeable, long time, 810cp players who were doing less than 15k dps.
.

It is that easy. Problem is vast majority of people dont know that. In a group You can easily do 30k+ DPS with just holding LMB as I proved here https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/484128/scalebreaker-ready-setup-for-dd-no-dlc-sets-guaranteed-dps-to-complete-veteran-content/p1 You just need to know how and vast majority of people simply dont know that and they choose to follow guides and setups for meta content that are totally not suited for them so at the end they fail miserably. That 26k on 3M dummy when You add just 1 ability to heavy attack spam turns into 50k DPS on 21M dummy. And You can hit that 30k+ in group content with any class on stamina or magicka setup and with basically CP 200+ and purple gear from non DLC content. You just need to know how and with what and that is the main issue because with the amount of sets in the game average casual player is lost.

And sorry but if long time 810 CP player is not hitting 15k DPS he is far from calling him knowledgeable. Being knowledgeable is also knowing how to pull 30k+.

I think you are missing the point, as have others and demonstrated at least in part the elitist attitude I have mentioned.

The parse you posted is using trial gear, and a monster set. Two things many players dont have for a variety of reasons. You mention purple gear, youre likely using purple or gold here, again something many people do not have for a variety of reasons. You have over 3k spell damage, something high numbers of people wont get near since they are not optimising traits and enchants, as you will have. You have max CPs, which can = thousands more dps compared to low CP.

In addition, that build is specifically set up for heavy attacks only. It wouldnt work as well on a build not set up for that. A build for instance that many people will be running from gear they pick up outside of trials or dungeons (for 2 years I did not run dungeons, let alone vet dungeons) - So no monster set either. Gear thats green or blue, that has poor enchants and traits, that may not be full 5 piece. Then factor in the fact that using skills, particularly without LA weaving (which most people are not doing), can be inefficient compared to heavy attacks and actually lower comparative dps, especially of course if no appropriate rotation is used, which will be the case for many.

You even mention part of the issue "you just need to know how"... most people dont, because they are casual gamers here to have fun, not hit dps numbers that elitists demand. You mention the average casual player getting lost, yes, they do, so why place unrealistic demands upon them and tell them to git gud.

Its like you know the issues and why the average player, i.e the majority of the player base, dont or wont do 30k+ dps, but then go ahead and demand they do and tell them its easy anyway.

It took me A LOT of hard work to get good dps numbers. LOTS of practice (and research) to LA weave properly. LOTS of grinding to obtain BIS gear (and more research). LOTS of grinding to optimise enchants and traits and improve gear to purple/gold. LOTS of grinding to get to max CP. etc. LOTS of grinding = time and effort AND desire, that the average player may not have. During this journey I was completing vet dungeons which took a few hours with fellow travellers on similar journeys. We were not any less worthy or passionate about ESO, we were just at a different stage of development, the stage that most casual/average games are at, and/or content to stay at or unable to progress from, for a variety of reasons.

This is the point, stop demanding casual, average players pull high dps, & stop telling them they are rubbish and looking down on them.
.

kylewwefan

Watchdog wrote: »

Well, I am a fresh CP 810 player, and I still don't know how exactly some things work in the game. I am casual, I play for fun, I am here for the stories, for the exploration of the world of Elder Scrolls, to relax, to relieve stress from work. I don't need a second job, the one that earns me my money is more than enough for me, thank you very much.

I create my own builds, some I have been able to solo some Normal Dungeons with, which may seem trivial and even laughable to endgame veterans, but for me, any build capable of soloing the Fungal Grotto I dungeon passes a trial by fire, so to speak. I have absolutely no idea how much DPS am I doing, though.

kylewwefan wrote: »

Remember Penetration is still a thing

Yeah, except I don't know how exactly does it work.

In dungeons, the likelyhood You’re gonna get infused tourgs crusher, alkosh, minor fracture..are slim to non existent. You can count on breech and fracture.

No idea what do you mean by that. Really, I have absolutely no clue. I do not understand those terms, at least not all od them, and not in this context. I know Infused is a trait, Minore Fracture and Breech are some sort of buffs/debuffs. The rest? Erm... English, please?

So it’s like this: 18200-5280= 12920

That’s how much penetration you gotta come up with so your damage is better. You don’t have to do it all, but make an attempt to get closer to zero.

No idea what the 18200 and 5280 mean. No idea what is the resulting 12920 about. Is it high enough? Low enough? Good enough? Terribad? *shrugs*

Sadly, It’s not written anywhere In the game; but the devs have made it a thing that us players do have to deal with.

Penetration is odd. I have noticed it seems to help melt adds much quicker but Damage starts slowing down on bosses.

I was shocked when I saw that Penetration is not shown anywhere. Luckily, a guildie suggested an add-on displaying more character stats. I still have no clue how exactly Penetration works, though.

Just my two Eurocents, from the point of view of someone having lots of fun in the game, despite of all the lack of the knowledge displayed above.

I often solo normals myself. It’s a great start. Easy carefree way to get stuff done.

In veteran content everything has 18200 resistance. I’m not sure about normal. It makes things seem very tanky. So you can add penetration through CP, lover mundus, Sets, enchants, weapon traits (Sharpened) and a few skills.

Alkosh is a synergy set many tanks wear to give you an extra 3000 penetration.

There’s a crusher weapon enchant that gives around 2000 penetration. It can be boosted further by using infused And even further by the crafted set Tourgs pact.

When a tank taunts a boss or mob with pierce armor skill it applies major fracture/breech that reduces mob resistance 5280.

The idea is the more resistance you take away from a boss/mob, the more damage they’re gonna take. So you want to be hitting them like they’re naked. Like many things in game though, you have to invest a great deal into penetration to get there. It’s likely more beneficial to start adding more damage instead of penetration at a certain point.

You’d have to be a strong wizard to figure this stuff out. It’s explained exactly nowhere in the game. But it does have a tremendous impact.

LordKelsier

@OP I think you are biased, because you are in the top10% of players or something

DPS is only through the roof for the very few people that are > 1000CP and have every set and arena weapon ready to go, probably while using macros for rotations

I struggled really hard to get 37k with gear that I'd consider at least semi-meta and that took a long ass time to grind. I still haven't gotten around to converting all traits, as transmutation geodes only give me 1 (purple) or 4 (gold) gems (I literally never got any more than that), so it's basically like 10 days of nonstop playing to convert a single gear piece. However, you usually have to change gear every 3 months so it's a never ending circle and you don't really have a chance to get anywhere near the DPS numbers from top players.

Here's my parse if you are interested and it took me months of work to get that far. I doubt random PUGs people that don't put such effort in will reach anywhere close to your quoted 25k dps...

Actually DoTs are *** as well if you don't have the needed Master or vMA weapons... Every dot on my rotation does less than 3k damage, so it's usually not worth to even use...

https://imgur.com/a/GTLXhT1

FierceSam

kylewwefan wrote: »

Man, I’m not even getting into trial DPS. Heck not even really much care for DLC dungeons. More like regular vet vanilla base game. These groups take 10 minutes to kill the beginning trash. I’m looking to do the whole dungeon in 10 minutes.

Why are they even bothering to do Vet? How is this fun even?

I’m here for a couple of keys and some tranny stones.

I can’t dedicate the next 45 minutes teaching how to turn a pew pew Build into a full on nuclear assault. This was supposed to take 15 minutes tops.

I’m not super spectacular or anything. Just kind of ok. And very unfortunately getting grouped up with the worst players this game has to offer. But it’s marginally faster than trying to start my own group.

You are a tired ennui rushing through content you’ve done a million times for chickenscratch rewards to get stuff that will let you become similarly tired of more advanced content further down the road... and you’re so jaded you’re only prepared to devote 15 minutes to it tops. We’ve all been there.. but if you want to do random dungeons fast and not come out like a whiner, form your own group. And if you can’t get 3 other people to join you, it might be worth considering why....

You are disparaging of people who may be having a totally different experience of ‘your’ dungeon than you.. They may find a 10 minute battle with trash to be thrilling and exciting.. a great appetiser for the next boss fight.. they may find the challenge perfect for them and might be having their best day in ESO. Well aside from the mardy bum rushing ahead of them like a streak of cold ***...

Case in point... The Lava Queen in Blessed Crucible... done it lots.. burn the boss la la la tedious af. This time we had lower dps, the fight took longer, we had to engage with the mechanics, people died, were resurrected, died again while successfully resurrecting someone else, lost the boss, got the boss under control again... it was a total and utter *** of a fight... but we won.. and it felt absolutely brilliant...

Wouldn’t trade that for a 10 minute torpor run with a shedload of gold at the end of it.

DPS ain’t everything friend

kylewwefan

You’re right near 40k DPS with no fracture and some wonky jabs and trapping webs rotation and think I’m off my rocker.

If you kept your bow bar the same. And used potl, Rending and light attacks only on front bar.....

you’ll still be well over 25 to 30k and probably won’t struggle with resources ever. I’m sure you well know jabs are terrible to try and do a solid clean rotation with. It keeps your light attacks down and that also holds your relequen down. You could also put on the lava foot stomp parsing food to help with sustain on a six mil.

And BTW, you’re not what I was aiming at. Maybe I should have started with 20~25k DPS as a better, easy to reach goal. But like a knucklehead I wrote 25~30.

See, 20~25k DPS in vet content, your still smashing it. 10~15k and it’s a massive struggle. That’s the bigger problem I encounter a lot.

GreenhaloX

kylewwefan wrote: »

For real my people. All you have to do is lay out every dot you can think of in no particular order. Start on back bar, work your way to and through the front bar. Then start over. Ult dump whenever you feel like it. I guarantee you’re gonna hit 25 to 30k DPS without even trying hard.

No excuses. No sweaty rotation nonsense. No animation cancel. This Maelstrom Staff ain’t gonna make you all of a sudden good.

Light attack, skill. Light attack, skill. Light attack, skill. Light attack, skill. Swap bar. Light attack, skill. Etc. etc. etc. start over.

Why do I constantly get in either group of terribaddy’s or godlike Monster DPS.

To constantly "Light attack, skill. Light attack, skill. Light attack, skill. Light attack, skill. Swap bar. Light attack, skill. Etc. etc. etc. start over" isn't viable for all class and build; particularly stam build without the good ward of a magsorc. Sure, the ward and harness majicka have both been shriveled down quite a bit, but still a lot better than stam shield. With stam, you have to roll/dodge, block and keep up vigor as well; particularly soloing or if there is a not-so-effective healer in a group. Also, I'm partial to heavy attack/skill over light attack weaving for stam regen and management.

Nestor wrote: »

I watch players of all ranks have long protracted fights with overland and trash mobs. Some people simply do not care how long it takes to kill something.

Well, you don't need to Light attack, skill. Light attack, skill. Light attack, skill. Light attack, skill. Swap bar. Light attack, skill. Etc. etc. etc. start over with overland trash mobs. Ha ha. You surely don't need to do that at dolmens either.

Odovacar wrote: »

Poor DPS makes for bad experiences in PuG's for sure, but many I think just cannot or will not put in the time to learn rotations properly. Mainly the reason the end game (even simpler DLC vet content) is cleared by a very small percentage, at least on consoles that is.

Most endgame contents, such as the vet dlc dungeons or even the normal Moonfane, it doesn't matter what dps you have; if you don't know mechs, it will make for a long run to complete (if even.) I can't count how many times in PUG runs I have to carry the group because they don't know mech. What scratches my head more is why there are still a lot of players queuing into dungeons and trials not knowing mech when one can simply and easier click on a video guide on youtube and just take a look to get familiarized with the mech before diving into a run for the first time.

TheGreatBlackBear

People's DPS is low because they want it to be to be low. Plain and simple. I've read a lot of pathetic excuses in this thread. Long. Lag. Servers. Desynch. I don't have time. Lack of in-game explanation on how to animation cancel. Blah blah blah. The fact of the matter is when something is important to someone they find a way to do it.

GrimTheReaper45

I remember reading awhile ago that bad ping can really kill dps test. Performance is a big issue on eso, Maybe that has something to do with it.

Gear is another big factor i think. If your having issues conforming to the meta sets and need more survivablity or sustain to get by having to not run those sets can hurt alot.

MasterSpatula

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

People's DPS is low because they want it to be to be low. Plain and simple. I've read a lot of pathetic excuses in this thread. Long. Lag. Servers. Desynch. I don't have time. Lack of in-game explanation on how to animation cancel. Blah blah blah. The fact of the matter is when something is important to someone they find a way to do it.

Nope, no elitism in this thread.