PTS Update 24 - Feedback Thread for Templar

ZOS_GinaBruno · September 2019

This is the official feedback thread for Templars. Please read through all the changes in the patch notes and try them out on the PTS before providing feedback in this thread. Thank you!

GallantGuardian · September 2019

You needed solar barrage again.... You also got rid of Templar’s only immobilize ability ...I know imma broken record ...

Can you please make solar barrage our point blank aoe immobilize ability ? That way templar tanks can actually use an in class immobilize ...

And actually use the dawns wrath tree on our bars for the ultimate increase ?

We can use power of the light but healers already do a lot do a lot of the time

And an immobilize ability is a far better option for tanks ... the fighters guild one is ok but it costs stamina I’d like a Magicka immobilize

And on top of that can templar tanks get a max health based burst heal with a small hot attached on one of our healing morphs honor the dead preferably since it’s cost is fat lower than the other heals

LuxLunae · September 2019

GallantGuardian wrote: »

You needed solar barrage again.... You also got rid of Templar’s only immobilize ability ...I know imma broken record ...

Can you please make solar barrage our point blank aoe immobilize ability ? That way templar tanks can actually use an in class immobilize ...

And actually use the dawns wrath tree on our bars for the ultimate increase ?

We can use power of the light but healers already do a lot do a lot of the time

And an immobilize ability is a far better option for tanks ... the fighters guild one is ok but it costs stamina I’d like a Magicka immobilize

And on top of that can templar tanks get a max health based burst heal with a small hot attached on one of our healing morphs honor the dead preferably since it’s cost is fat lower than the other heals

Hmm, I can't see a problem with this. As a stamina pvp templar I had rather run solar barage with immobilize so that I can jab them. Rather than using the much stronger rearming trap. I would be limited by the use of it because my magica competes with cleanse. However magplars....they will go crazy with this...

Light, toppling charge, jab, solar barage (rooted now you are in the jabs), jab, jab, radial BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

Sanguinor2 · September 2019

Living dark just snaring is Pretty dissapointing and terribly uncreative. Templar has plenty of snares already, sweeps/Jabs, sacred Ground, sunfire to Name a few, while this is not the templar "class identity" update (and thank god for that) seeing the snare of Living dark replaced with something unique, or atleast not as redundant, would be nice.

Ashamray · September 2019

Revert Boom baby change.
Backlash must not crit. It's just toxic for pvp.

GallantGuardian · September 2019

LuxLunae wrote: »

GallantGuardian wrote: »

You needed solar barrage again.... You also got rid of Templar’s only immobilize ability ...I know imma broken record ...

Can you please make solar barrage our point blank aoe immobilize ability ? That way templar tanks can actually use an in class immobilize ...

And actually use the dawns wrath tree on our bars for the ultimate increase ?

We can use power of the light but healers already do a lot do a lot of the time

And an immobilize ability is a far better option for tanks ... the fighters guild one is ok but it costs stamina I’d like a Magicka immobilize

And on top of that can templar tanks get a max health based burst heal with a small hot attached on one of our healing morphs honor the dead preferably since it’s cost is fat lower than the other heals

Hmm, I can't see a problem with this. As a stamina pvp templar I had rather run solar barage with immobilize so that I can jab them. Rather than using the much stronger rearming trap. I would be limited by the use of it because my magica competes with cleanse. However magplars....they will go crazy with this...

Light, toppling charge, jab, solar barage (rooted now you are in the jabs), jab, jab, radial BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

Mags could still do this using the fighters guild fear holding them in place and not allowing them to damage for 6 seconds

I really want a aoe class immobilize just seems like Zos isn’t listening

LuxLunae · September 2019

Ashamray wrote: »

Revert Boom baby change.
Backlash must not crit. It's just toxic for pvp.

Like I said to most people, this will be good for those who run a low crit build. It allows them to place resources else where...as for people like me who get 60% of crit, every other light will probably crit...so it is not a buff and not a nerf at the same time....

but it will ensure that I kill you before you get that last heal in ^_^

LuxLunae · September 2019

GallantGuardian wrote: »

LuxLunae wrote: »

GallantGuardian wrote: »

You needed solar barrage again.... You also got rid of Templar’s only immobilize ability ...I know imma broken record ...

Can you please make solar barrage our point blank aoe immobilize ability ? That way templar tanks can actually use an in class immobilize ...

And actually use the dawns wrath tree on our bars for the ultimate increase ?

We can use power of the light but healers already do a lot do a lot of the time

And an immobilize ability is a far better option for tanks ... the fighters guild one is ok but it costs stamina I’d like a Magicka immobilize

And on top of that can templar tanks get a max health based burst heal with a small hot attached on one of our healing morphs honor the dead preferably since it’s cost is fat lower than the other heals

Hmm, I can't see a problem with this. As a stamina pvp templar I had rather run solar barage with immobilize so that I can jab them. Rather than using the much stronger rearming trap. I would be limited by the use of it because my magica competes with cleanse. However magplars....they will go crazy with this...

Light, toppling charge, jab, solar barage (rooted now you are in the jabs), jab, jab, radial BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

Mags could still do this using the fighters guild fear holding them in place and not allowing them to damage for 6 seconds

I really want a aoe class immobilize just seems like Zos isn’t listening

I just read they removed immobilize on living dark...

Let me dance around in the pts before I say anything... ignore what i said before

NBrookus · September 2019

If Backlash is going be a rule breaker and double crit, it needs to only reflect the casting templars' damage. If you want templar dps to get some love, then it needs to be a dps that uses the skill, not a high crit healer build or a tank buffing the group.

Living Dark - just remove the snare too, and leave the HoT. Templar doesn't need another snare and the skill on live is strong enough to stand on it's own as a heal over time.

Thanks for the changes to jabs and I look forward to trying them open world when U24 goes live.

FrancisCrawford · September 2019

NBrookus wrote: »

If Backlash is going be a rule breaker and double crit, it needs to only reflect the casting templars' damage. If you want templar dps to get some love, then it needs to be a dps that uses the skill, not a high crit healer build or a tank buffing the group.

What's wrong with PvE folks having nice things?

Vapirko · September 2019

Apparently Master at Arms CP is not buffing biting jabs.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6339771#Comment_6339771

BoraxFlux · September 2019

In the patch notes I see the following under Combat & Abilities / Templar / Aedric Spear / Piercing Javelin:
"Reduced the range from this ability and its morphs to 22 meters, down from 28, to ensure they follow the function of other abilities such as Scatter Shot or Fiery Grip."

Will Piercing Javeling no longer be affected by the Alliance Assault Passive: Reach?
Reach tooltip:
"Increases the range of long-range abilities by 5 meters while near a keep. Any ability with a range greater than 28 meters is affected."

If it is affected by Reach like suggested in this post it would be a pity to lose the additional distance.

EDIT: just a thought, on holiday right now, so not able to check it out right away.

Luckylancer · September 2019

Piercing javelin has low damage. Ignoring armor effect is completely irrelevant. It makes sense, it 'pierces' but game play wise it is not usefull at all. Can we have another auxilary effect?

titaniumdust · September 2019

Puncturing sweeps/jabs is currently bugged on the pts. The actual damage is still scaling with thaumaturge, and it does not proc scathing mage.

crazywolfpusher · September 2019

With the changes to warden

Luckylancer wrote: »

Piercing javelin has low damage. Ignoring armor effect is completely irrelevant. It makes sense, it 'pierces' but game play wise it is not usefull at all. Can we have another auxilary effect?

Maybe move Minor Fracture and Minor Breach from Power of the light to Piercing Javeling base. Since backlash is getting buff...
This would benefit magplars without hurt stamplar.

Also, maybe some little damage increase to make it a spammable for range builds both magicka and stamina.

Stibbons · September 2019

I fail to see how you want to give templar a "class identity" when you nerfed core of the class = dots... You are making this class useless. Templar dots weren't overperforming in first place so the nerf doesn't make sense.

The class dots of templar should not be standartized like generic dots... You are breaking the "attrition class" with sustained damage. Please reconsider these changes.

virtus753 · September 2019

crazywolfpusher wrote: »

With the changes to warden

Luckylancer wrote: »

Piercing javelin has low damage. Ignoring armor effect is completely irrelevant. It makes sense, it 'pierces' but game play wise it is not usefull at all. Can we have another auxilary effect?

Maybe move Minor Fracture and Minor Breach from Power of the light to Piercing Javeling base. Since backlash is getting buff...
This would benefit magplars without hurt stamplar.

Also, maybe some little damage increase to make it a spammable for range builds both magicka and stamina.

It would hurt stamplar in PvE. PotL is one of the few sources of Minor Fracture and Breach, and PotL is justifiable in a PvE rotation (in part for that very reason) whereas Javelin is not. If they switched it to Javelin, stamplar would lose its last bit of unique group utility in PvE.

InvictusApollo · September 2019

I don't see a reason to nerf Javelin since knockback disables enemy for shorter time than it used to. Nerfing range is a significant nerf. We need our ranged CC to catch an escaping enemy and work as an opener for the rest of burst combo.
Javelin ignoring resistances isn't such a huge buff. We still can't use it as a spammable due to it's huge cost. Piercing mechanic will increse it's damage by up to 25% on tanky characters who don't use minor or major protection or other resistance buffs and rely only on maxed out resistances and battle spirit.
This nerf is uncalled for.

As for 10% nerf to healing from Living Dark - it is too big. Alone this wouldn't be an issue. However it seems that Structured Entropy won't be healing a magplar since it will be switched to degeneration as a main source of Major Sorcery. For this reason Templar's total healing will be nerfed much more than it seems. I can only hope that the removal of dot meta will decrease enemies pressure on Templars enough to mitigate the loss of healing.

Other changes to Templar are ok to me.

Now the worst thing: we need a better source of Major Sorcery for all classes. Degeneration is simply too weak to warrant putting it on a bar. Now that it does significantly less damage it is borderline useless. Either increase it's duration or give us something worth it to keep the skill on a bar. When comparing this skill to other sources of Major Sorcery it is very, very weak.

MrGhosty · September 2019

Admittedly I'm still testing and trying things out, but after taking my current magplar over to PTS I saw (and expected) a major drop in DPS. I was prepared for that, but what kind of shook me was just how much the cost increase to skills hits.

I'm planning to tweak some aspects of the build to see what some more recovery on jewelry could do, the cost increase in conjunction with the damage nerfs feels bad. I say this as a lower skill player who just recently started doing enough dps to go into vet trials content. Having your resource pool drop so heavily stalls out the combat, this might not feel as badly if I swap over to a lightning staff as heavy attacks are far more reliable than on flame staff but the build as it stands now feel completely gutted.

My one big feedback point so far from my time on PTS is that if you need to reduce damage on skills, I can get that but to tune the damage down so much AND increase the cost of these skills at the same time feels like too big a swing in the other direction.

I guess for me personally, it's super frustrating to be struggling my way up by practicing light attack weaving and proper timing in my rotation finally reaching a point where I could start to challenge myself further in vet trials only for this change to come about which will likely eliminate me from being able to attempt that content.

There are people out there much smarter than me who will likely find ways around these new hurdles, but as a self described casual player (in skill level anyway) these sort of changes hurt my engagement severely. If this is a case of needing to reduce the amount of damage calculations the servers have to perform, I hope that the content will get balanced as well to reflect this new sea change. If they don't I can imagine the top % of players will recover but these sort of changes hurt the players in the middle who are still trying to reach the top and participate in the endgame which sort of goes against what Brian Wheeler said on the stream the other day about wanting people to play how they want to.

SidraWillowsky · September 2019

I don't main a templar so maybe I'm doing something wrong, but holy crap, sustain is abysmal. In the PTS I'm running perfected false gods AND ele drain AND whatever that group utility skill is that restores X mag per second and I STILL can't get through even a 3 mil parse without running completely out of magicka by 40% health. My DPS has TANKED. On live I can pull a fairly easy 48k on a 6 mil and 78k on a 21 mil just by kind of randomly pushing buttons. I can run siroria instead of FGD and do fine with sustain. What the hell happened? My DPS dropped by 33%...

IronWooshu · September 2019

Please reconsider the nerfs..

5.1.0 you nerfed Blazing Spear by 42% and I was ok with that because dot damage was getting buffed but them in 5.2.0 you went overboard on the dot nerfs and nerfed Blazing Spear again this time by 59% so in two patches you nerfed Blazing Spear by 101% in addition to over nerfing dots in general you added a 2k cost increase to Blazing Spear.

How is this fair when Wardens OP AOE Winters Frost only took a 33% damage decrease? Also looking at other AOE damage decreases, Twisting Path only took a 33% damage decrease as well.

Ontop of that with the nerfs to dot abilities, you have taken away more build diversity from Templars. How was Vampires Bane decreased by 60% while Wardens OP dot got buffed with Minor Vulnerability and only took a 50% damage decrease.

The only standardization you have done was increase all classes ST Dots and AOE's to ridiculous numbers in cost while making Templars Dots and AOE's weaker. If that's the case why should we have to spend just as much on a weaker skill then other classes?

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Gilliam

ZeroXFF · September 2019

Ashamray wrote: »

Revert Boom baby change.
Backlash must not crit. It's just toxic for pvp.

But it's necessary to make it good in PvE. Also to make it good you have to keep doing damage with a proper rotation for the full duration, and only then will you get anywhere in the range of a fire and forget skill like daedric prey/haunting curse, which is hardly something that happens a lot in PvP. The skill has an easy counter in PvP, so no need to bring it back to uselessness in PvE.

Also, asking for PvE nerfs for the sake of PvP... Typical.

MartiniDaniels · September 2019

IronWooshu wrote: »

Please reconsider the nerfs..

5.1.0 you nerfed Blazing Spear by 42% and I was ok with that because dot damage was getting buffed but them in 5.2.0 you went overboard on the dot nerfs and nerfed Blazing Spear again this time by 59% so in two patches you nerfed Blazing Spear by 101% in addition to over nerfing dots in general you added a 2k cost increase to Blazing Spear.

How is this fair when Wardens OP AOE Winters Frost only took a 33% damage decrease? Also looking at other AOE damage decreases, Twisting Path only took a 33% damage decrease as well.

Ontop of that with the nerfs to dot abilities, you have taken away more build diversity from Templars. How was Vampires Bane decreased by 60% while Wardens OP dot got buffed with Minor Vulnerability and only took a 50% damage decrease.

The only standardization you have done was increase all classes ST Dots and AOE's to ridiculous numbers in cost while making Templars Dots and AOE's weaker. If that's the case why should we have to spend just as much on a weaker skill then other classes?

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Gilliam

Imagine comparing best class aoe (shards) to absolutely useless class aoe, which nobody uses in scalebreaker (path).
Shards have initial direct damage, while winter's and path don't . Their actual damage per cast is LOWER then shards even now. Plz check numbers before whining for more nerfs.

Vapirko · September 2019

This isn’t really a templar specific feedback but Stamina Templar is my main so that’s my point of view. I don’t really know what to say about the dot changes. As a Stamplar I lack any secondary pressure. Twin slashes and poison inject are garbage and the fact that jabs still gets mitigated by certain defensive skills. My only move rn is jabs with CC and Ult for burst. And it’s woefully inadequate. I went through a LOT of skills on PTS and there just isn’t bar space for the number of dots you’d need to get at back on top. Nerfing healing isn’t the answer because you still need to contend with strong burst. And if you end up nerfing burst we will all just be standing around twiddling our thumbs. We need that pressure back. It’s like PvP was in this place that had been built up over many years and then you just ripped one of the core concepts out of it and now the whole thing is just kinda dead in the water. I might be switching to my mag sorc. They don’t really on dots at least and matriarch is getting a massive heal boost. ZOS I gotta say, I know we yell a lot but this is no good.

Edit: I don’t want to say that I can’t kill anyone or that fights are endless, but things are definitely dragging along. PvP is going to see an increase in TTK and I’m not sure that’s good.

Sanguinor2 · September 2019

ZeroXFF wrote: »

But it's necessary to make it good in PvE. Also to make it good you have to keep doing damage with a proper rotation for the full duration, and only then will you get anywhere in the range of a fire and forget skill like daedric prey/haunting curse, which is hardly something that happens a lot in PvP. The skill has an easy counter in PvP, so no need to bring it back to uselessness in PvE.

Also, asking for PvE nerfs for the sake of PvP... Typical.

Easy solution to that Problem. Code it like Ambush was, back when it stunned npcs but was unable to stun Players. Just make Backlash unable to crit enemy Players. Downside is that the guys that coded ambush all this time ago are probably Long gone so who knows if it can be done now.

tinythinker · September 2019

IronWooshu wrote: »

Please reconsider the nerfs..

5.1.0 you nerfed Blazing Spear by 42% and I was ok with that because dot damage was getting buffed but them in 5.2.0 you went overboard on the dot nerfs and nerfed Blazing Spear again this time by 59% so in two patches you nerfed Blazing Spear by 101% in addition to over nerfing dots in general you added a 2k cost increase to Blazing Spear

It's OK, the extra damage on BS was originally added to compensate for taking away the stun from that morph so losing so much damage recently is 100% fair and acceptable for nothing in return

ZeroXFF · September 2019

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

But it's necessary to make it good in PvE. Also to make it good you have to keep doing damage with a proper rotation for the full duration, and only then will you get anywhere in the range of a fire and forget skill like daedric prey/haunting curse, which is hardly something that happens a lot in PvP. The skill has an easy counter in PvP, so no need to bring it back to uselessness in PvE.

Also, asking for PvE nerfs for the sake of PvP... Typical.

Easy solution to that Problem. Code it like Ambush was, back when it stunned npcs but was unable to stun Players. Just make Backlash unable to crit enemy Players. Downside is that the guys that coded ambush all this time ago are probably Long gone so who knows if it can be done now.

As I already pointed out, there is no reason to do it, because it's easy to counter, something that isn't the case with other delayed burst skills. Cloak is basically a hard counter, so is purge, and all forms of damage mitigation are cutting it twice by making it harder to stack up and cutting the final explosion at the same time. Considering the latter, the "double crit" that people complain about is very much justified (though I object to the premise that "double crit" is even a thing as long as there is a cap that can be reached without critting before time runs out, since at that point all your crits are wasted anyways, and also not having the final hit crit is just a slap in the face).

And since it doesn't scale with stats other than max. mag/stam (depending on the morph), it's little more than daedric prey without the damage buff (but let's say that is compensated by the heal/fracture depending on the morph), unable to crit, and having a proc condition to function that is easy to counter in PvP. If it keeps its proc condition, it should be significantly stronger than "fire and forget" delayed burst skills, which is not the case on live.

Kadoin · September 2019

GallantGuardian wrote: »

LuxLunae wrote: »

GallantGuardian wrote: »

You needed solar barrage again.... You also got rid of Templar’s only immobilize ability ...I know imma broken record ...

Can you please make solar barrage our point blank aoe immobilize ability ? That way templar tanks can actually use an in class immobilize ...

And actually use the dawns wrath tree on our bars for the ultimate increase ?

We can use power of the light but healers already do a lot do a lot of the time

And an immobilize ability is a far better option for tanks ... the fighters guild one is ok but it costs stamina I’d like a Magicka immobilize

And on top of that can templar tanks get a max health based burst heal with a small hot attached on one of our healing morphs honor the dead preferably since it’s cost is fat lower than the other heals

Hmm, I can't see a problem with this. As a stamina pvp templar I had rather run solar barage with immobilize so that I can jab them. Rather than using the much stronger rearming trap. I would be limited by the use of it because my magica competes with cleanse. However magplars....they will go crazy with this...

Light, toppling charge, jab, solar barage (rooted now you are in the jabs), jab, jab, radial BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

Mags could still do this using the fighters guild fear holding them in place and not allowing them to damage for 6 seconds

I really want a aoe class immobilize just seems like Zos isn’t listening

1. That's a stam ability
2. It has a delay
3. It takes another skill slot to do and doesn't do damage

That's quite different from your suggestion, and as a templar tank I just use ice wall. But to each their own.

blnchk · September 2019

Stibbons wrote: »

I fail to see how you want to give templar a "class identity" when you nerfed core of the class = dots... You are making this class useless. Templar dots weren't overperforming in first place so the nerf doesn't make sense.

The class dots of templar should not be standartized like generic dots... You are breaking the "attrition class" with sustained damage. Please reconsider these changes.

Funny, there's now a thread started by a DK main claiming they are the DoT-focused attrition class. Talk about identity.

Sanguinor2 · September 2019

blnchk wrote: »

Funny, there's now a thread started by a DK main claiming they are the DoT-focused attrition class. Talk about identity.

DK got a dev comment calling them the attrition class tho, cant remember templar getting such a dev description in the recent patch notes.^^

scirocco2 · September 2019

Why do you keep nerfing magplars aoe damage every update now while at the same time buff wardens already crazy area damage in bg:s. And without the dots ranged templars are dead again they are back to only meele range damage, why only 1 playstyle on a class. I played mine as a caster since level low level when I got dark flare and had fun, but then I discovered that dark flare is pretty mutch useless in pvp, so I was forced to go meele with my magplar instead, until the dot nerf finally I could play as a caster again and do some damage not mutch compared to other casters but it was fun.