PTS Update 24 - Feedback Thread for Templar

danno8 · September 2019

IronWooshu wrote: »

Please reconsider the nerfs..

5.1.0 you nerfed Blazing Spear by 42% and I was ok with that because dot damage was getting buffed but them in 5.2.0 you went overboard on the dot nerfs and nerfed Blazing Spear again this time by 59% so in two patches you nerfed Blazing Spear by 101% in addition to over nerfing dots in general you added a 2k cost increase to Blazing Spear.

Not to be that guy, but nerfing something by 100% would mean it would be doing 0 damage overall. Your 42% and then 59% nerfs would mean an overall nerf of around 76% of the original value.

Still, it's pretty outrageous.

Altyrann · September 2019

Is there any chance we could get Solar Barrage to have a base 10s in line with other DoTs so that it gets to 12s with Enduring Rays? It would give us a chance to get a nice 12s rotation with 2 Purifying Light casts etc.

turlisley · September 2019

Cross-posting/quoting from: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/493817/backlash/p2 because he made a good point and I would like to see this change to Backlash.

Darkmage1337 wrote: »

Backlash (Purifying Light IV):

Cast Time: Instant
Target: Enemy
Range: 28 meters
Duration: 6 seconds
Cost: 1,480 Magicka

"Summon an expanding beam of pure sunlight to doom an enemy, dealing 4,245 Magic Damage to them and copying all their damage taken for 6 second and releasing 20% of it as additional Magic Damage to them.
Maximum copied damage: 21,947.
When the effect ends, a pool of sunlight remains attached to the enemy, healing you and nearby allies for 2,070 Health every 2 seconds for 6 second."

So, my idea would be to remove the initial Magic Damage (4,245 in my case) completely and add that value, or half of it, to the Maximum Copied Damage value. (Obviously Tooltip numbers will vary based on everyone's own build, passives, active buffs, food buff, etc.)

Currently, Backlash/Purifying Light functions in numerous categories as a weird spammable (initial damage), passive debuff (copied damage effect), damage over time (copied damage effect), high burst skill (copied damage explosion), and a heal over time (end effect). As far as ZOS's 'ability-audits' go and their actions of streamlining abilities into being super-stupid-simple (Dizzying Swing, etc.), Backlash/Purifying Light still misses that mark of simplicity.

The primary purpose, appeal, and effect of Backlash/Purifying Light is the copied damage value. Not the initial damage hit nor the heal over time secondary effect. Nor the Minor Breach and Minor Fracture for the Power of the Light Stamina version.

It has already been said and noted numerous times that multiple Backlashes from different Templars on the same target at the same time override one another, which diminishes the value of the skill in group play with multiple DPS Templars (regardless of Mag or Stam).

SO, why not increase the value of Backlash in solo play and/or PvP by removing the initial damage tooltip value entirely and instead add the initial damage tooltip value to the total copied damage tooltip value so that Backlash (+morphs) can be successfully used from stealth, without breaking stealth, just like Nightblade's Marked Target.

The Magicka Templar's rotation would look something like this: Start in Stealth > Apply Purifying Light on Target > next ability crits (breaking stealth), so it should be a high-damage burst ability to help reach the damage copied cap > followed by xyz (the rest of the DPS/burst rotation) until Backlash explodes.
The Stamina Templar's rotation would look something like this: Start in Stealth > Apply Power of the Light on Target > next ability crits (breaking stealth), so it should be a high-damage burst ability to help reach the damage copied cap > followed by xyz (the rest of the DPS/burst rotation) until Backlash explodes.

My point is about the set-up and the execution. Backlash currently does too many things at the same time -- it has an initial damage component, a damage over time / copied damage component, and a heal over time or defense debuff component, depending on the morph. Plus, the ability itself cannot crit and cannot be stacked or used in conjunction with other Templar effectively. All of these things combined together into one ability make it less reliable and thus ineffective.

TL;DR: Allow Backlash to be used from stealth (and not take you out of stealth) by removing the initial damage value from Backlash and adding that initial damage value to the total copied damage value to make up for the initial damage loss. Again, this would allow for a better set-up/execution of the ability for solo-play and PvP. The ability already barely fuctions correctly in group-play when multiple Templars are present, so why not make it a little better with this small, easy change?

I love the ability, and both morphs, which I use on different characters, but I just wish Backlash would be slightly changed in this way to be more user-friendly for everyone. @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_GinaBruno

Delparis · September 2019

Living dark should be changed to a bubble that prevent any dmg but prevent also the templar from casting any skill for the duration of living dark (rename it btw)

Czekoludek · September 2019

Delparis wrote: »

Living dark should be changed to a bubble that prevent any dmg but prevent also the templar from casting any skill for the duration of living dark (rename it btw)

you understand how op it would be? With that you could shut down any enemy burst combo by simply clicking one button

Casterial · September 2019

Stamplar underperforms due to lacking class skills and now has an empty slot on bar that use to be damage.

Example, I Used rending slashes, it's now completely useless of a skill but I have no other skill that can replace it that does decent damage and no class skills (11/15) are magicka.

EtTuBrutus · September 2019

We absolutely need an in class sorcery. What the actual f. EVERY other class has them. This is getting ridiculous.

Stibbons · September 2019

Delparis wrote: »

Living dark should be changed to a bubble that prevent any dmg but prevent also the templar from casting any skill for the duration of living dark (rename it btw)

Self disable? Maybe ad root self on that

Casterial · September 2019

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

We absolutely need an in class sorcery. What the actual f. EVERY other class has them. This is getting ridiculous.

What do you mean? We get minor sorcery with like a 100% uptime.

Cinbri · September 2019

1. Jabs:
So, multiplying of glow based on amount of hitted enemies was removed, this is good, less useless animations that waste performance.
a. "Updated the visual effects of this ability to better sync up with its attacks"
Animation is actually desynced from non-caster pov. It especially visible coz snare apply, just check in slow-motion when snare applied and damage ticked and when does animation of hit proced:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdYwIOKBL1c
Idk how to decrease video speed in settings tho

.You just need to cut animations without those swings parts.

b. "Jabs switched to be direct damage attack"
As already said after overhaul it has exact same bug that Solar Barrage had after its own overhaul. So it scale of DoT CP which however don't increase tooltip and cant be buffed by Direct Damage CP which does increase tooltip; yet for Red CP it works okey and being affected by Direct Damage CP.
Also numerous of old direct damage sets don't proc on this attack (hello Bloodthorn again..), while some perform weirdly like Scathing Mage that count only first tick as direct damage and thus has 20% to proc only on first tick.
Also while Living Dark does work against Jabs properly, Unstable Core still not count Jabs as direct attack and don't proc on any of ticks:

c. Reduce duration of Jabs to 0.8s with needed damage reduction so skill rotation (jab+light attack) perform within 1.0s just like rest of spammable. Current 1.0 is decreasing effectiveness of Infused and Charged traits (check templar feedback thread with more info: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6300113/#Comment_6300113 )

2. Cleansing Ritual:
Its performance bug that making it multiply based on amount of healed enemies wasn't fixed. It should be top one priority to fix because just every 2sec of this skill it drain more resources than removed particles of javelin+jabs+sweep+sun shield in combine.

3. Sun Fire:
Its major prophecy proc finally changed to work wise to tooltip yet it has problem told:

^^ due to travel time that can take up to 2sec duration of buff will be lower than duration of dot and thus each next cast will decrease uptime of it because when dot ends - its buff will be gone 1/2sec already. So increase duration of buff for 2sec.

4. Unstable Core:
a. While Jabs and Flurry does work with Living Dark properly, yet nor Jabs nor Flurry don't proc Core despite being spammable direct attacks:

b. Unstable core (unlike other morph) bugged and don't work with Enduring Rays passive anymore. Additional duration does showing but upon 1.9 remaining time it just disappear:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvPtdJ9BeHI

c. Damage portion still don't proc if enemy immune to cc effect of sphere stage. Till you fix it this skill will be terrible in pvp and useless in pve.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s98gr6nF6P0

d. New thing that unclear to be bug or attempt to make morph viable after rudiculous damage nerf is that sphere no longer have cooldown on activation while stage effect still can occur once per second and thus against enemy with lot of fast attacks it proc 1st stage couple times then when 1sec cooldown passed it comes to 2nd stage and proc several times with increased damage, then again go to 3rd stage. Look impressive:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dSjIoYka1E
^^That exactly how such skill should work: the more aggressive enemy - the more punishment he gets. And Living Dark should be update to work same - less heal (~-15% after last nerf but without cooldown). However it making problem of damage not dealing if target immune even more obvious coz all next activations are also not trigger damage (you can see it on video above where 3rd stage damage wasn't activated several times because target is CC Immune).
If this is intended - it will make morph bit more usable (it useless right now), but if it just a bug after you messed with part where: "Fixed an issue where reapplying this ability or the Unstable Core morph to a target before the original expired could cause issues with the cooldown of the effects."
then it becoming unfair balance-wise because skill mechanic is exact of Spiked Armor which is also return damage to enemies but don't have nor cap on amount of targets nor internal cooldown on proc and thus can be proced several times against enemy with lot of fast attacks. Punishing Core damage with 1sec cooldown on damage proc when it limited to 1 enemy and small aoe around him while morph already have 1sec cooldown on status effect is double punishment.
If it indeed bug that should be fixed how about go easier way - remove 1s cooldown from status effect so along with damage it will proc CCs fast enough within couple seconds and then stop working because bug that rooted and CCed after 1s cast enemy will be immune to damage procs on stages going again.

e. It still doesn't work against weapon enchants and direct damage proc sets.

5. Living Dark:
a. Morph still not proc on direct damage proc sets. Also morph still don't work on mobs special attacks, making this morph terrible as tanking tool in pve.

b. Both morphs' CC effects are not prolonging by Enduring Rays passive, that goes against rules of how Enduring Rays perform with rest of affected skill or Dark Veil improving CC effects like duration of Fear or Searing Heat fully improving corresponded skills or how old Persistence was fully affected tree-skills.

c. Its intended mechanic is to be templar version of Scales or Crystal shield (as it was said in Crystal Shield patchnote), i.e. defensive scaling mechanics however it is far below those mechanics standards for couple reasons:
1. Cost of Living Dark wasn't standardized to coast of Scales and Crystal shield which is 3780 while cost of Living Dark is 4320 and even after accounting its passive of Restoring Spirit it is above standards - 4104. Cost should be reduced to standards as part of morph effect.
2. Its only skill of similar ones that has punishment in form of double cooldown and after root was removed it no longer balanced. Scales don't have internal cooldown on damage reduce of projectiles, only on fireballs, Crystal shield don't have cooldown on absorbing projectiles, it only has cooldown now on damage dealt that also tied to magicka return.
However Living Dark does have cooldown on heal proc upon being hitted while also getting cooldown on snare apply.
There is couple ways to deal with it:
1. Just as suggested above in Unstable Core section - remove cooldown on heal proc and reduce its heal so it actually have scaling mechanism.
2. Remove cooldown from Snare proc and keep cooldown on heal - so snare wont be one of double-penalty part. While it was root it was validated because strength of effect but as snare (those were nerfed in addition) it not validated to have cooldown. Reflective Plate for example purge and give immunity to uncapped amount of snares and roots.
3. Follow Reflective Plate option and make skill instead of snare grant major speedbuff to caster for 4sec. Same kiting mechanic just reverted in reliability.
4. Follow Crystal Shield rule and add another effect to snare that will proc along with it with 0.5s cooldown. Since morph is survivability based and zos reintroduce old mechanics - such effect could be minor maim debuff on enemy for same duration as snare. Because originally this skill was applied moderate buff of reducing enemy damage after bubble was broken, which in nowdays analogy of maim debuff.

d. Another stuff with Living Dark is that unlike other similar skills is unable to effectively work for stamina build. Scales and Crystal either don't have scaling mechanic for defense or scale off max hp and thus good for magicka and mana dump for stamina while same not work for Dark. So how bout to deal with its inconsistence and since scaling on max resource working good for this skill - make it scale on highest resources (stam+wpd/mana+spd)?

6. Eclipse visuals:
If short - Living Dark is even worse while Unstable Core actually changed to be nice.
a. Living Dark new effect of how it was described "golden bubble":

^^ It is even uglier now and contradict theme of skill and reason of change overall:
1. It contradict morph description that you protected by darkness, not by some sphere that shine like a Christmas tree. Dark theme of it should be core effect. In addition it has problem with seam of sphere halves.
2. It contradict plans of improving performance by getting rid of useless particles and new visual if just taking 3rd layer of glowing light/light reflections and multiply amount of effects on it to be shiner in addition to adding right side autorotating effect of glow. Bubble already had problem of being several layers effect and thus problem of rendering effect in battle making people questioning about if it is up or not. (also in templar feedback thread I posted several videos where running without bubble and that coz this rendering problem of multiple effects)
3. Healing proc is even less noticeable because more intensified glow and there is no longer visual effect of backlash explosion showing root proc.
4. It not fixing at all problem of determining in combat of which morph applied to you - Living Dark or Unstable Core or NPC Eclipse:
a. Living Dark and NPC Eclipse layers meshing with each other while having same core black bubble and thus in actually fight it hard to determine if your Dark still on you when NPC one on you or does NPC one on you while your Dark on you:

b. It hard to determine if Living Dark on you or on enemy when Unstable Core is on same target because new visual of Core is intensified shadows that hiding your layer of glowing sphere.

So here is several ways to deal with it taking in mind that Living Dark effect should be simple just like red transparent glow of Scales or just 3 white floating shield of Crystal Shield:
1. Core on zero stage has new super cool effect of darkness grow and essence float:

but it goes bit against skill description that says that you envelop target in dark sphere, so take away this effect and keep black bubble without glow layer on zero stage, i.e. same to 1st stage since there is no 0 stage anyway. Also having bubble is not problematic because it not interfere with NPC Eclipse as its not self-buff.
Use this new effect for Living Dark instead of dark cloak texture it currently apply (rune focus armor buff visual is overwriting this effect anyway and this skill is on every templar bar). And change tooltip of skill to "protective darkness", remove black bubble and keep floating shadows. In the end it will look like anti-transmutation:

where it has glow on char and floating light strings while Dark will have this growing darkness from inside of character and floating dark strings, combination of:

Its bright yellow essence float can either being passive effect right now so skill will be visible even in dark areas, see above (where old glow layer on bubble was working for this role). Thus effect will be fully RP-wise of darkness on char is healing him and floating darkness is debuffing enemies. Also it will loose black bubble that will allow easily to figure what type of skill on you because rest of types will have black bubble.
2. Again remove this inside darkness from Core and add it to Dark but use new dark bubble took from 1st or 2nd stage of Core (2nd one is super intensified darkness) that is without glow layer, while making essence to proc only when heal to be visual effect showing its proc. Will look like this:

Core stages are passing too fast so you will still will be able to determine if skill on you while it will take less resources to render. Skill also will be as transparent as scales or nb mirage.
While 2nd stage is more visible coz intense shadows and you will see it through NPC Eclipse, however more problematic to see with Unstable Core on you:

3. If you want more differentional look change tooltip of Living Dark and swap to one of the effects of truly golden bubbles that already ingame I showed in feedback post :https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6300113/#Comment_6300113

7. Enduring Rays passive: need update. Long ago it was affected most of skills but not anymore and thus it going outside of powerlevel of similar passives: there is 2 types of passive - 1: Dark Veil, old Persistence - passives that affect entire skill tree and prolonging duration of every skill and ult while prolong duration of some additional effects of those skills for 2sec. 2: Searing Heat, Enduring Rays - those that affect only several skills (mostly half of tree) and prolong not just duration but also all skills effects for 2+sec.
And thus we should compare Rays to Heat: because it not affect entire skill tree Heat has stronger bonus than Veil - in form of 4sec increase of skills and additional bonus (10% damage increase). And Enduring Rays not follow this because while it affect just 1 skill more than Heat its powerlevel equal to Veil - 2sec of skills while not prolong effects of some skills (Eclipse).
So to get it on the level of comparable passives it should get either of treatments:
a. Increase duration prolongation to 4sec from 2s, allow all skill effects to be working with passive.
b. Keep 2sec duration but grant new small bonus to passive. It is harder because unlike Heat that affect damage skills and thus its effect easy to implement, Rays affect different skills. Small cost decrease?

8. Backlash: so "bug" of double mitigation of final explosion wasn't fixed that goes against mechanic of skill and in addition it also can crit now that mean it double dip by crit.. So, zos just throw original concept of skill into trash can for vague reasons. It just wont make this skill more healthier to play because it will be still either weak(solo) or just to strong in Xv1.
Skill by itself is worse than other comparable skills because to deal damage by it require caster to be fully offensive for entire duration of skill. It was benefiting coz Xv1 part dots that were allowing to stack dots and be more defensive and yet allowed backlash to deal nice damage buy with dots nerf it will be much worse and this problem of skill will be more visible.
How bout just make it back to pure pve skill like before by increasing cap and reducing amount of storing damage while allow it to crit and reintroduce Dark Flare as our proper burst ability:
1. Either as delayed boom baby skill like sub assault - you instantcast Dark Flare, it charging on you for 3sec and then launch into enemy you casted it on and deal nice 5m aoe damage with major defile.
2. You cast it and gain Empowered for 8sec. Every 2 sec it launch corrupted energy into closest enemy that deal damage and apply major defile.
2. Or, since same was done for sorcs I will repeat again, make it like Assassin Will/Bound Weapons - cast on your self for Xsec and gain Empowered for the duration. Every light attack gain you 1 orb of dark energy that floating behind your back and after reaching 4 balls - they fly into enemy either like 4 separate ball or likes 1 big ball (like psijic passive) or into beam (bigger beam than bound weapons) and explosion apply aoe major defile.
Smth like those balls from Cradle of Shadows:

Make its damage scale of highest stat like Soul Trap to be usable on both specs.

Or just redesign Backlash again.

P.S.: And you ruined Entropy for templars, so after solving pain point of class not having class-based major sorcery you reintroduced this pain point right in the following update...
@ZOS_Gilliam

itscompton · September 2019

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for Templars. Please read through all the changes in the patch notes and try them out on the PTS before providing feedback in this thread. Thank you!

Is that your not so subtle way of telling consoles players to *** off? Lovely how you exclude 2/3 of the player base from being able to test the changes and then tell them their feedback is unwanted because they can't get on the PTS server. Having played the game since the week it came out I've got a pretty good idea of what these changes will mean to the game without needing to test them. My first thought reading the nerf notes was that TTK in PvP would skyrocket and killing any decent player 1v1 would be almost impossible and from what I've read of people who do have access and have tested it I was absolutely right.

Cinbri · September 2019

And I forgot to mention that bug that was fixed for Streak
"Fixed an issue where you could become stuck in place after attempting to cast this ability or any of its morphs when a target was outside your line of sight."
wasn't fixed for templar charge

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlwAo26q1Bs
^^ removed it from my bar during IC event because being constantly stucked wasn't enjoyable.

Ragnaroek93 · September 2019

Boom Baby...

Kadoin · September 2019

Delparis wrote: »

Living dark should be changed to a bubble that prevent any dmg but prevent also the templar from casting any skill for the duration of living dark (rename it btw)

Ok, at 10-15K magicka because thats how much you save from casting BoL multiple times in the same interval.

Oh and its time works on how much resist you have so LA users cannot get a free pass, and you still have to invest in tankiness for a tank ability.

And also, siege still works.

Gotta have trade-offs! Does it still sound good?

Kadoin · September 2019

Cinbri wrote: »

[

5. Living Dark:

c. Its intended mechanic is to be templar version of Scales or Crystal shield (as it was said in Crystal Shield patchnote), i.e. defensive scaling mechanics however it is far below those mechanics standards for couple reasons:
1. Cost of Living Dark wasn't standardized to coast of Scales and Crystal shield which is 3780 while cost of Living Dark is 4320 and even after accounting its passive of Restoring Spirit it is above standards - 4104. Cost should be reduced to standards as part of morph effect.
2. Its only skill of similar ones that has punishment in form of double cooldown and after root was removed it no longer balanced. Scales don't have internal cooldown on damage reduce of projectiles, only on fireballs, Crystal shield don't have cooldown on absorbing projectiles, it only has cooldown now on damage dealt that also tied to magicka return.
However Living Dark does have cooldown on heal proc upon being hitted while also getting cooldown on snare apply.
There is couple ways to deal with it:
1. Just as suggested above in Unstable Core section - remove cooldown on heal proc and reduce its heal so it actually have scaling mechanism.
2. Remove cooldown from Snare proc and keep cooldown on heal - so snare wont be one of double-penalty part. While it was root it was validated because strength of effect but as snare (those were nerfed in addition) it not validated to have cooldown. Reflective Plate for example purge and give immunity to uncapped amount of snares and roots.
3. Follow Reflective Plate option and make skill instead of snare grant major speedbuff to caster for 4sec. Same kiting mechanic just reverted in reliability.
4. Follow Crystal Shield rule and add another effect to snare that will proc along with it with 0.5s cooldown. Since morph is survivability based and zos reintroduce old mechanics - such effect could be minor maim debuff on enemy for same duration as snare. Because originally this skill was applied moderate buff of reducing enemy damage after bubble was broken, which in nowdays analogy of maim debuff.

d. Another stuff with Living Dark is that unlike other similar skills is unable to effectively work for stamina build. Scales and Crystal either don't have scaling mechanic for defense or scale off max hp and thus good for magicka and mana dump for stamina while same not work for Dark. So how bout to deal with its inconsistence and since scaling on max resource working good for this skill - make it scale on highest resources (stam+wpd/mana+spd)?

1. Living Dark difference from those other skills is that it has a heal component. The heal component needs a CD, because if not it will essentially work in a similar fashion to 7th legion when there was no cooldown on its proc chance. The cooldown was added for a reason, and I find it great ZOS has the foresight to see it was needed and should never be removed off the skill. The skills is essentially an auto-cast heal and heals as much as a 5 piece or more depending on your build.

2. Cost is justified IMO, as long as the skill heals. This is because it is still possible to get massive heals from the skill with the right build, and because BRP resto can bring this skill into god-mode territory on live ( not gonna lie about this

, too bad that weapon set exists and they won't nerf it ).

3. The forums routinely complains about snares that have to be casted, and you want a skill to have no CD on it when its auto-applied? When thinking of balance in PvP, you should think about your enemies too.

4. As for mag/stam balance and scaling off of highest statistic, the reason why it may be restricted to only mag chars is because of a few reasons:

a. BRP DW exists, and that damage reduction + living dark heals would be problematic. A hybrid build that uses such or a mag build using BRP DW is possible, but makes trade-offs (no light attacking with that DW bar, loss of either restro or destro staff, in hyrbid case a hard limit on the heal return because of stats, etc.)

b. Weapon and spell damage scale differently, meaning that there is the potential for a stam LD that heals more than a mag one. This is because mag builds must account for stam and other off-resources, while stam can invest in only one and not face the same issues. A fundamental and continued discrepancy that is ignored by ZOS. But I won't get into this since this is about templar.

Then it has to be taken into account that stam also has access to expedition sources and sets like briarheart. Add in major evasion and after damage reduction the heal would be too significant; it's already significant on a magplar and that's without native access to major evasion, major protection, and major expedition.

The changes you want will make players see this would be the only class to play, and ironically would result in a templar tank meta that does damage and outheals it. It would actually result in a stam templar tank meta for those that can understand how those changes would allow you to build.

My answer? Sorry, I disagree. Living Dark on PTS does not need to be "tuned" like that.

Stibbons · September 2019

Cinbri wrote: »

1. Jabs:
So, multiplying of glow based on amount of hitted enemies was removed, this is good, less useless animations that waste performance.
a. "Updated the visual effects of this ability to better sync up with its attacks"
Animation is actually desynced from non-caster pov. It especially visible coz snare apply, just check in slow-motion when snare applied and damage ticked and when does animation of hit proced:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdYwIOKBL1c
Idk how to decrease video speed in settings tho .You just need to cut animations without those swings parts.

b. "Jabs switched to be direct damage attack"
As already said after overhaul it has exact same bug that Solar Barrage had after its own overhaul. So it scale of DoT CP which however don't increase tooltip and cant be buffed by Direct Damage CP which does increase tooltip; yet for Red CP it works okey and being affected by Direct Damage CP.
Also numerous of old direct damage sets don't proc on this attack (hello Bloodthorn again..), while some perform weirdly like Scathing Mage that count only first tick as direct damage and thus has 20% to proc only on first tick.
Also while Living Dark does work against Jabs properly, Unstable Core still not count Jabs as direct attack and don't proc on any of ticks:

c. Reduce duration of Jabs to 0.8s with needed damage reduction so skill rotation (jab+light attack) perform within 1.0s just like rest of spammable. Current 1.0 is decreasing effectiveness of Infused and Charged traits (check templar feedback thread with more info: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6300113/#Comment_6300113 )

2. Cleansing Ritual:
Its performance bug that making it multiply based on amount of healed enemies wasn't fixed. It should be top one priority to fix because just every 2sec of this skill it drain more resources than removed particles of javelin+jabs+sweep+sun shield in combine.

3. Sun Fire:
Its major prophecy proc finally changed to work wise to tooltip yet it has problem told:

^^ due to travel time that can take up to 2sec duration of buff will be lower than duration of dot and thus each next cast will decrease uptime of it because when dot ends - its buff will be gone 1/2sec already. So increase duration of buff for 2sec.

4. Unstable Core:
a. While Jabs and Flurry does work with Living Dark properly, yet nor Jabs nor Flurry don't proc Core despite being spammable direct attacks:

b. Unstable core (unlike other morph) bugged and don't work with Enduring Rays passive anymore. Additional duration does showing but upon 1.9 remaining time it just disappear:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvPtdJ9BeHI

c. Damage portion still don't proc if enemy immune to cc effect of sphere stage. Till you fix it this skill will be terrible in pvp and useless in pve.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s98gr6nF6P0

d. New thing that unclear to be bug or attempt to make morph viable after rudiculous damage nerf is that sphere no longer have cooldown on activation while stage effect still can occur once per second and thus against enemy with lot of fast attacks it proc 1st stage couple times then when 1sec cooldown passed it comes to 2nd stage and proc several times with increased damage, then again go to 3rd stage. Look impressive:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dSjIoYka1E
^^That exactly how such skill should work: the more aggressive enemy - the more punishment he gets. And Living Dark should be update to work same - less heal (~-15% after last nerf but without cooldown). However it making problem of damage not dealing if target immune even more obvious coz all next activations are also not trigger damage (you can see it on video above where 3rd stage damage wasn't activated several times because target is CC Immune).
If this is intended - it will make morph bit more usable (it useless right now), but if it just a bug after you messed with part where: "Fixed an issue where reapplying this ability or the Unstable Core morph to a target before the original expired could cause issues with the cooldown of the effects."
then it becoming unfair balance-wise because skill mechanic is exact of Spiked Armor which is also return damage to enemies but don't have nor cap on amount of targets nor internal cooldown on proc and thus can be proced several times against enemy with lot of fast attacks. Punishing Core damage with 1sec cooldown on damage proc when it limited to 1 enemy and small aoe around him while morph already have 1sec cooldown on status effect is double punishment.
If it indeed bug that should be fixed how about go easier way - remove 1s cooldown from status effect so along with damage it will proc CCs fast enough within couple seconds and then stop working because bug that rooted and CCed after 1s cast enemy will be immune to damage procs on stages going again.

e. It still doesn't work against weapon enchants and direct damage proc sets.

5. Living Dark:
a. Morph still not proc on direct damage proc sets. Also morph still don't work on mobs special attacks, making this morph terrible as tanking tool in pve.

b. Both morphs' CC effects are not prolonging by Enduring Rays passive, that goes against rules of how Enduring Rays perform with rest of affected skill or Dark Veil improving CC effects like duration of Fear or Searing Heat fully improving corresponded skills or how old Persistence was fully affected tree-skills.

c. Its intended mechanic is to be templar version of Scales or Crystal shield (as it was said in Crystal Shield patchnote), i.e. defensive scaling mechanics however it is far below those mechanics standards for couple reasons:
1. Cost of Living Dark wasn't standardized to coast of Scales and Crystal shield which is 3780 while cost of Living Dark is 4320 and even after accounting its passive of Restoring Spirit it is above standards - 4104. Cost should be reduced to standards as part of morph effect.
2. Its only skill of similar ones that has punishment in form of double cooldown and after root was removed it no longer balanced. Scales don't have internal cooldown on damage reduce of projectiles, only on fireballs, Crystal shield don't have cooldown on absorbing projectiles, it only has cooldown now on damage dealt that also tied to magicka return.
However Living Dark does have cooldown on heal proc upon being hitted while also getting cooldown on snare apply.
There is couple ways to deal with it:
1. Just as suggested above in Unstable Core section - remove cooldown on heal proc and reduce its heal so it actually have scaling mechanism.
2. Remove cooldown from Snare proc and keep cooldown on heal - so snare wont be one of double-penalty part. While it was root it was validated because strength of effect but as snare (those were nerfed in addition) it not validated to have cooldown. Reflective Plate for example purge and give immunity to uncapped amount of snares and roots.
3. Follow Reflective Plate option and make skill instead of snare grant major speedbuff to caster for 4sec. Same kiting mechanic just reverted in reliability.
4. Follow Crystal Shield rule and add another effect to snare that will proc along with it with 0.5s cooldown. Since morph is survivability based and zos reintroduce old mechanics - such effect could be minor maim debuff on enemy for same duration as snare. Because originally this skill was applied moderate buff of reducing enemy damage after bubble was broken, which in nowdays analogy of maim debuff.

d. Another stuff with Living Dark is that unlike other similar skills is unable to effectively work for stamina build. Scales and Crystal either don't have scaling mechanic for defense or scale off max hp and thus good for magicka and mana dump for stamina while same not work for Dark. So how bout to deal with its inconsistence and since scaling on max resource working good for this skill - make it scale on highest resources (stam+wpd/mana+spd)?

6. Eclipse visuals:
If short - Living Dark is even worse while Unstable Core actually changed to be nice.
a. Living Dark new effect of how it was described "golden bubble":

^^ It is even uglier now and contradict theme of skill and reason of change overall:
1. It contradict morph description that you protected by darkness, not by some sphere that shine like a Christmas tree. Dark theme of it should be core effect. In addition it has problem with seam of sphere halves.
2. It contradict plans of improving performance by getting rid of useless particles and new visual if just taking 3rd layer of glowing light/light reflections and multiply amount of effects on it to be shiner in addition to adding right side autorotating effect of glow. Bubble already had problem of being several layers effect and thus problem of rendering effect in battle making people questioning about if it is up or not. (also in templar feedback thread I posted several videos where running without bubble and that coz this rendering problem of multiple effects)
3. Healing proc is even less noticeable because more intensified glow and there is no longer visual effect of backlash explosion showing root proc.
4. It not fixing at all problem of determining in combat of which morph applied to you - Living Dark or Unstable Core or NPC Eclipse:
a. Living Dark and NPC Eclipse layers meshing with each other while having same core black bubble and thus in actually fight it hard to determine if your Dark still on you when NPC one on you or does NPC one on you while your Dark on you:

b. It hard to determine if Living Dark on you or on enemy when Unstable Core is on same target because new visual of Core is intensified shadows that hiding your layer of glowing sphere.

So here is several ways to deal with it taking in mind that Living Dark effect should be simple just like red transparent glow of Scales or just 3 white floating shield of Crystal Shield:
1. Core on zero stage has new super cool effect of darkness grow and essence float:

but it goes bit against skill description that says that you envelop target in dark sphere, so take away this effect and keep black bubble without glow layer on zero stage, i.e. same to 1st stage since there is no 0 stage anyway. Also having bubble is not problematic because it not interfere with NPC Eclipse as its not self-buff.
Use this new effect for Living Dark instead of dark cloak texture it currently apply (rune focus armor buff visual is overwriting this effect anyway and this skill is on every templar bar). And change tooltip of skill to "protective darkness", remove black bubble and keep floating shadows. In the end it will look like anti-transmutation:

where it has glow on char and floating light strings while Dark will have this growing darkness from inside of character and floating dark strings, combination of:

Its bright yellow essence float can either being passive effect right now so skill will be visible even in dark areas, see above (where old glow layer on bubble was working for this role). Thus effect will be fully RP-wise of darkness on char is healing him and floating darkness is debuffing enemies. Also it will loose black bubble that will allow easily to figure what type of skill on you because rest of types will have black bubble.
2. Again remove this inside darkness from Core and add it to Dark but use new dark bubble took from 1st or 2nd stage of Core (2nd one is super intensified darkness) that is without glow layer, while making essence to proc only when heal to be visual effect showing its proc. Will look like this:

Core stages are passing too fast so you will still will be able to determine if skill on you while it will take less resources to render. Skill also will be as transparent as scales or nb mirage.
While 2nd stage is more visible coz intense shadows and you will see it through NPC Eclipse, however more problematic to see with Unstable Core on you:

3. If you want more differentional look change tooltip of Living Dark and swap to one of the effects of truly golden bubbles that already ingame I showed in feedback post :https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6300113/#Comment_6300113

7. Enduring Rays passive: need update. Long ago it was affected most of skills but not anymore and thus it going outside of powerlevel of similar passives: there is 2 types of passive - 1: Dark Veil, old Persistence - passives that affect entire skill tree and prolonging duration of every skill and ult while prolong duration of some additional effects of those skills for 2sec. 2: Searing Heat, Enduring Rays - those that affect only several skills (mostly half of tree) and prolong not just duration but also all skills effects for 2+sec.
And thus we should compare Rays to Heat: because it not affect entire skill tree Heat has stronger bonus than Veil - in form of 4sec increase of skills and additional bonus (10% damage increase). And Enduring Rays not follow this because while it affect just 1 skill more than Heat its powerlevel equal to Veil - 2sec of skills while not prolong effects of some skills (Eclipse).
So to get it on the level of comparable passives it should get either of treatments:
a. Increase duration prolongation to 4sec from 2s, allow all skill effects to be working with passive.
b. Keep 2sec duration but grant new small bonus to passive. It is harder because unlike Heat that affect damage skills and thus its effect easy to implement, Rays affect different skills. Small cost decrease?

8. Backlash: so "bug" of double mitigation of final explosion wasn't fixed that goes against mechanic of skill and in addition it also can crit now that mean it double dip by crit.. So, zos just throw original concept of skill into trash can for vague reasons. It just wont make this skill more healthier to play because it will be still either weak(solo) or just to strong in Xv1.
Skill by itself is worse than other comparable skills because to deal damage by it require caster to be fully offensive for entire duration of skill. It was benefiting coz Xv1 part dots that were allowing to stack dots and be more defensive and yet allowed backlash to deal nice damage buy with dots nerf it will be much worse and this problem of skill will be more visible.
How bout just make it back to pure pve skill like before by increasing cap and reducing amount of storing damage while allow it to crit and reintroduce Dark Flare as our proper burst ability:
1. Either as delayed boom baby skill like sub assault - you instantcast Dark Flare, it charging on you for 3sec and then launch into enemy you casted it on and deal nice 5m aoe damage with major defile.
2. You cast it and gain Empowered for 8sec. Every 2 sec it launch corrupted energy into closest enemy that deal damage and apply major defile.
2. Or, since same was done for sorcs I will repeat again, make it like Assassin Will/Bound Weapons - cast on your self for Xsec and gain Empowered for the duration. Every light attack gain you 1 orb of dark energy that floating behind your back and after reaching 4 balls - they fly into enemy either like 4 separate ball or likes 1 big ball (like psijic passive) or into beam (bigger beam than bound weapons) and explosion apply aoe major defile.
Smth like those balls from Cradle of Shadows:

Make its damage scale of highest stat like Soul Trap to be usable on both specs.

Or just redesign Backlash again.

P.S.: And you ruined Entropy for templars, so after solving pain point of class not having class-based major sorcery you reintroduced this pain point right in the following update...
@ZOS_Gilliam

SERIOUS FIX ARE NEEDED.

Neoauspex · September 2019

It's such a thin line for so many Templar skills between being completely worthless and good enough that everybody whines endlessly until they get nerfed... Eclipse, Blazing Shield, Power of the Light, Radiant Destruction, etc... I wish they would just add content that counters specific things rather than go back and tweak existing things constantly every time a sorc dies. But instead they keep removing counters for things like Wings, Shield Breaker, etc and then skills that were only good if you used them wisely become overpowered and need to be endlessly adjusted.

Eclipse is next to die when in reality, there should be a counter for direct damage spamming somewhere in the game. And if you go into Cyrodiil with all direct damage skills on your bar, you're not going to have an answer for it. Just like if you go into to Cyro with all ranged spammables, you didn't have a way to deal with Wings back in the day. You should have to either account for counters in your build or accept the consequences. If this cycle continues, they might as well just implement spell crafting and all skills can just be variations on a single formula of cast time/damage/secondary effect/cost.

SeaUnicorn · September 2019

Damage changes for Mag Templar
I did comparison of DPS parses on an average trial build with pFGD, MS, Zaan, vMA back bar, Shadow Mundus, all dots for live, Psijic spammable for PTS. CP on PTS optimized for direct damage, while on live for DOT damage due to obvious reasons. Did not use any parse boosting cheese, went for the regular set up that I bring to PVE. I am your average player who reached end game content about 4 months ago. I started to play on PC at the arrival of Summerset.

Now overall DPS loss was about 12K or about 16% on a single target. It will be more prominent on multi target fights.
In addition set and light attack damage became more prominent in the PTS parse. LA dps percentage increased from 20% to 26% while Zaan proc damage increased from 4.2 to 4.9% on PTS parse. This indicates that the skill DPS importance was reduced.

Implications/thoughts:

- Higher difference between skill floor and ceiling, combat mechanics around LA weaving are more important than ever, yet it is still not a streamlined combat mechanic. For example animation of solar barrage most often than not results in LA not being proceed after unless player cancels that animation with block or bar swap, animation on shards delays application of the skill and etc. Such mechanics are not explained anywhere in the skill tooltip or game help section and knowledge about them may be only obtained by trial and error or asking other more experienced players. In addition very often Light Attach just would not go through regardless of how many times player pressed LMB prior to casting the skill. LA weaving is also heavily affected by ping, jittering and etc.

- Diminished AOE damage. AOE damage is a pillar of majority strategies that we use in veteran trials and other hard end game content. That same content is heavily dependent on high DPS marks, as some mechanics become unbearable harder - when fight lasts longer. Players literally have no choice and are pushed to invest into high DPS heavily just to be able to complete some of the content, for example vMOL HM, vHOF HM, vAS HM, vCR+3, vSS HM (especially portals on last boss).

- Looks like combat balancing was done with "elite" and highly skilled players in mind such as Hodor, MC, but average player population was not taken into consideration and imact on average end game player population was not considered.

Suggestions:
- Increase damage of ground DOTs to be 2x of a spammable, as target can simply walk out of them.
- Increase damage of ST dots to be 1.7x of a spammable, as the affect of those takes time to fully apply.
- increase damage of multi-target dots to be 1.3x of a spammable, as they can hit multiple targets but still take time to fully tick-through.
- reduce damage of light attacks to make LA weaving still rewarding, but not so heavily punitive to newer players or players with worse ping.

PTS Build & Parse:

Live build & Parse:

ExistingRug61 · September 2019

Backlash stored damage being able to crit breaks the consistency all other skills have to prevent double dipping of crit chance.

What if instead of the backlash damage critting, it is changed so instead the backlash cap has the ability to crit. This would still allow backlash to crit in a way so it can benefit from crit like other skills do, but it also means that crit damage that contributes to the stored damage won't be multiplied by the crit modifier again if backlash crits so it can't double dip.

GallantGuardian · September 2019

Won’t be shocked they this backlash change not only gets reverted but also gets a huge nerf

technohic · September 2019

Jabs/sweeps tooltip increases with master at arms CP but actual damage does not scale up. Meanwhile tooltip doesn't go up thaumaturge CP but damage does go up.

Details in this thread https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/493761/biting-jabs-not-scaling-with-master-at-arms-champion-points#latest

Stibbons · September 2019

Backslash is just fine in pve and in pvp. Get over it and it simply does not need nerfs.

Casterial · September 2019

Stibbons wrote: »

Backslash is just fine in pve and in pvp. Get over it and it simply does not need nerfs.

Agreed.

GallantGuardian · September 2019

Stibbons wrote: »

Backslash is just fine in pve and in pvp. Get over it and it simply does not need nerfs.

Oh I agree but I’m just saying this always happens to Templar’s we get something nice the community cries and we lose it

Stibbons · September 2019

Dark Flare really needs some sort of adjustment. Damage is too slow and it is very clunky to get the empowered buff. Just remove the whole major defile from it make it pure damage spell. Hell even frags hits way and have instant proc chance morph too. Basically NOBODY uses this spell in pve/pvp/wvw. It is in that sorry stane now.

Cinbri · September 2019

Good concerns @Kadoin.

Kadoin wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

[

5. Living Dark:

c. Its intended mechanic is to be templar version of Scales or Crystal shield (as it was said in Crystal Shield patchnote), i.e. defensive scaling mechanics however it is far below those mechanics standards for couple reasons:
1. Cost of Living Dark wasn't standardized to coast of Scales and Crystal shield which is 3780 while cost of Living Dark is 4320 and even after accounting its passive of Restoring Spirit it is above standards - 4104. Cost should be reduced to standards as part of morph effect.
2. Its only skill of similar ones that has punishment in form of double cooldown and after root was removed it no longer balanced. Scales don't have internal cooldown on damage reduce of projectiles, only on fireballs, Crystal shield don't have cooldown on absorbing projectiles, it only has cooldown now on damage dealt that also tied to magicka return.
However Living Dark does have cooldown on heal proc upon being hitted while also getting cooldown on snare apply.
There is couple ways to deal with it:
1. Just as suggested above in Unstable Core section - remove cooldown on heal proc and reduce its heal so it actually have scaling mechanism.
2. Remove cooldown from Snare proc and keep cooldown on heal - so snare wont be one of double-penalty part. While it was root it was validated because strength of effect but as snare (those were nerfed in addition) it not validated to have cooldown. Reflective Plate for example purge and give immunity to uncapped amount of snares and roots.
3. Follow Reflective Plate option and make skill instead of snare grant major speedbuff to caster for 4sec. Same kiting mechanic just reverted in reliability.
4. Follow Crystal Shield rule and add another effect to snare that will proc along with it with 0.5s cooldown. Since morph is survivability based and zos reintroduce old mechanics - such effect could be minor maim debuff on enemy for same duration as snare. Because originally this skill was applied moderate buff of reducing enemy damage after bubble was broken, which in nowdays analogy of maim debuff.

d. Another stuff with Living Dark is that unlike other similar skills is unable to effectively work for stamina build. Scales and Crystal either don't have scaling mechanic for defense or scale off max hp and thus good for magicka and mana dump for stamina while same not work for Dark. So how bout to deal with its inconsistence and since scaling on max resource working good for this skill - make it scale on highest resources (stam+wpd/mana+spd)?

1. Living Dark difference from those other skills is that it has a heal component. The heal component needs a CD, because if not it will essentially work in a similar fashion to 7th legion when there was no cooldown on its proc chance. The cooldown was added for a reason, and I find it great ZOS has the foresight to see it was needed and should never be removed off the skill. The skills is essentially an auto-cast heal and heals as much as a 5 piece or more depending on your build.

CD on heal is simply coz it retained its previous mechanic of Total Dark, that was just changed from CC into self-buff.
And this apparently bug with Unstable Core CD reminded me time when change was made in U16. When skill originally didn't had cooldown and it power based on scaling - more aggressive enemy - more stronger skill, less aggressive - useless skill. But then simply coz attempt to make it more viable for PvE zos added 0.750cd taking into account that mobs attack is 2sec CD, and increasing damage for 67% to keep strength. But this didn't make skill any better for PvE yet made for PvP much weaker coz usefulness of its scaling mechanic was drastically decreased, skill was healing againt enemy spamming light attack as much as against enemy who anim cancel 3 attacks+ double enchants+3 proc sets+ult burst. I think @Joy_Division still remember time before this CD addition.
And CD by itself lost even more credibility after morph became self-buff:
1. As self-buff for PvE it will be used only as tanking tool but it wont be worth tanking tool till they make scaling based on HP, but as dev comment in wardens section said - zos don't want give tanking too much benefit.
2. After finally becoming self-buff original scaling would actually work for it same as Scales work for dk - when 20 people of 1 attack you - you will feel difference in skill usefullness.
3. Unstable Core as single target CC tool simply not needed in PvE, especially when it very buggy and not work against mobs/bosses and coz its 6sec duration make it worse against mobs with their 2sec cooldown. Also as mentioned in previous post having cooldown also hurt Core because it place it against of how similar mechanic in Spiked Armor works (which is literally Unstable Core on yourself interm of damage return).

Back in time damage was increased for 67%(btw healing part of Total Dark wasnt addressed) to account for power with cooldown as without cooldown. So, it could return back - reduce healing for another 50%+ and remove cooldown, so skill will regain its original scaling.
Literally equal to Scales change - instead of strong reflect of 4 projectiles and got mitigation for full duration no matter how many enemies attack. And in the end 1v1 it became much weaker than in 1v10, preventing it from brainless spam.

Kadoin wrote: »

2. Cost is justified IMO, as long as the skill heals. This is because it is still possible to get massive heals from the skill with the right build, and because BRP resto can bring this skill into god-mode territory on live ( not gonna lie about this , too bad that weapon set exists and they won't nerf it ).

Zos new vision is standardization, so they equalize similar skills cost/duration/strength/etc., for that reason Crystal Shield got 60% damage buff just to match Fire Scales, or spammables/dots cost was equalized.
And even without accounting double cooldown that indeed is subjective, Eclipse still getting out of this standardization and that put it below powerlevel and bring only more balance problems for couple objective reasons:
5. Cost is higher. So it not match standardization rule.
6. Its has 2sec lower duration that also negatively interact with Enduring Rays passive: Even without taking in account that Eclipse CC effects no longer being affected by passive and thus break how this skill worked before and how similar passives for other classes, it still break rule that similar skills should be equal in duration and then class passive boost it. For Eclipse as said it by default 4sec and only with passive it getting in line with similar skills and become 6sec but it also break rule that Enduring Rays should make affiliated skill stronger.

Kadoin wrote: »

3. The forums routinely complains about snares that have to be casted, and you want a skill to have no CD on it when its auto-applied? When thinking of balance in PvP, you should think about your enemies too.

I agree on that, this idea my least favorite and just cheap solution. Also there problem with templar kit being overloaded with snares. Getting one more snares now looks like step against vision of zos about getting rid of several sources of similar of effects within class skilllines. Having something more unique than just yet another snare for Living Dark or Unstable Core 1st stage in templar arsenal of miriads snares would be appreciated.

Kadoin wrote: »

4. As for mag/stam balance and scaling off of highest statistic, the reason why it may be restricted to only mag chars is because of a few reasons:
b. Weapon and spell damage scale differently, meaning that there is the potential for a stam LD that heals more than a mag one. This is because mag builds must account for stam and other off-resources, while stam can invest in only one and not face the same issues. A fundamental and continued discrepancy that is ignored by ZOS. But I won't get into this since this is about templar.

This stam vs magika scaling was already done several times to address stamina builds - when Backlash got stam/mag morphs or when Cleansing Ritual got scaling on highest stat. In both cases was used 1:1 scaling ration for effects of skills, so similar scaling 1:1 wont be against of how zos implemented scaling within class in the past.

gallach · September 2019

Why the Luminous Shards got its cost increased? I understand the damage nerf. It makes sense because of the ability can regenerate primary and secondary resources at the same time, it can not deal considerable damage over time on a DPS rotation.

If a magplar wants to slot shards, get Blazing Spear morph, if the healer wants to keep primary and secondary 4 man group resources up, take Luminous Shards morph, correct?

To give Luminous Shards synergies to our group, a healer needs to cast it 3 times:

3 x 4950 = 14850 magicka

For the other hand, Orb costs only 3780 magicka and can be activated by multiple players. There are no reasons to slot Luminous Shards over Orb (except to proc Olorime but this is another story).

Is possible to keep the old Luminous Shards cost or at least change the synergy mechanism to be activated by multiple players?

Hamboot · September 2019

give Templar major sorcery

AidC96 · September 2019

Stam Temps with Blackrose Duel wield are seriously over-performing.
30% damage reduction = 19,800 resistance.... NOT balanced at all.

JobooAGS · September 2019

Stibbons wrote: »

Delparis wrote: »

Living dark should be changed to a bubble that prevent any dmg but prevent also the templar from casting any skill for the duration of living dark (rename it btw)

Self disable? Maybe ad root self on that

Imagine a duel with it