PTS Update 24 - Feedback Thread for Templar

EtTuBrutus

Major sorcery for heavens sake.. with entropy back to doodoo i want potion flexibility, not garbage skills taking up my bar

ZeroXFF

I was hoping they would fix it in this patch, but apparently not... Now that resistances on sets are giving both physical and spell resist, it is no longer possible to grab a set with a single physical resist bonus to reach cap on both resistances. Unless the spell resist bonus of Templars (and DKs) gets the same treatment as the set bonuses, this is a nerf, since one would have to invest twice as much to reach the same cap. And templar tanks really do not need any nerfs.

Delparis

ZOS should have removed the dmg cap with this change to backlash as 20k dmg under 6 sec are easily reached in pve under 1 sec. Maybe reduce the % dmg done to 10% and the duration to 5 sec to make it worth slotting.

Animus-ESO

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

Major sorcery for heavens sake.. with entropy back to doodoo i want potion flexibility, not garbage skills taking up my bar

Put it on radiant Aura and boom perfect

Joy_Division

Thrusts-His-Spear wrote: »

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

Major sorcery for heavens sake.. with entropy back to doodoo i want potion flexibility, not garbage skills taking up my bar

Put it on radiant Aura and boom perfect

Nah that skill is niche.

Abyssmol

Give Templars Major Sorcery!!!

IronWooshu

Thrusts-His-Spear wrote: »

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

Major sorcery for heavens sake.. with entropy back to doodoo i want potion flexibility, not garbage skills taking up my bar

Put it on radiant Aura and boom perfect

Radiant Aura needs a complete rework, it's too niche and just adding major sorcery to it wont help its cause.

Hymzir

Abyssmol wrote: »

Give Templars Major Sorcery!!!

Give stamplars major brutality while you're at it.

Meh, who am I kidding, neither of those is ever gonna happen.

As for Backlash... Not surprised to see the change. So many have been clamoring for it for ages. Don't know how well it will play out in the end though. Mabye it will work with the it being able to crit now, maybe it wont. The thing though is, that it was designed to be a skill with a group synergy. The concept was fine, but, as always, the implementation was less so, and let to tons of unforeseen problems (as in: the devs did not try to see if there was any problems or not), and the skill has seen it's ups and downs as the gameplay design has swung wildly from side to side over the years.

But one things has been constant, trying to fill the buffer solo has been pretty much undoable. The DoT meta made it lot more feasible, but that is gonna go the way of the dodo, and I don't really see it being worth slotting on my bar now. The problem is, as always, the fact that the skill does pretty muhc jack squat for the resources invested unless you fill the buffer. But doing that is an iffy proposition except agaisnt total potatoes. And the timer, in which to fill it, is not exactly forgiving either, and canny foes will use loss and terrain to prevent you from filling it in time. Besides it can always be purged.

The way things are looking now, is that I'd rather slot something hard hitting and direct that doesn't have ton of clauses to fill before getting worthwiler eturn for using it. Somethin that just delivers something I can rely on, isntead of beign a cosntatn maybe. Will miss one the very few ranged timed burst options availabe for Templars though.

Abyssmol

Hymzir wrote: »

Abyssmol wrote: »

Give Templars Major Sorcery!!!

Give stamplars major brutality while you're at it.

Meh, who am I kidding, neither of those is ever gonna happen.

As for Backlash... Not surprised to see the change. So many have been clamoring for it for ages. Don't know how well it will play out in the end though. Mabye it will work with the it being able to crit now, maybe it wont. The thing though is, that it was designed to be a skill with a group synergy. The concept was fine, but, as always, the implementation was less so, and let to tons of unforeseen problems (as in: the devs did not try to see if there was any problems or not), and the skill has seen it's ups and downs as the gameplay design has swung wildly from side to side over the years.

But one things has been constant, trying to fill the buffer solo has been pretty much undoable. The DoT meta made it lot more feasible, but that is gonna go the way of the dodo, and I don't really see it being worth slotting on my bar now. The problem is, as always, the fact that the skill does pretty muhc jack squat for the resources invested unless you fill the buffer. But doing that is an iffy proposition except agaisnt total potatoes. And the timer, in which to fill it, is not exactly forgiving either, and canny foes will use loss and terrain to prevent you from filling it in time. Besides it can always be purged.

The way things are looking now, is that I'd rather slot something hard hitting and direct that doesn't have ton of clauses to fill before getting worthwiler eturn for using it. Somethin that just delivers something I can rely on, isntead of beign a cosntatn maybe. Will miss one the very few ranged timed burst options availabe for Templars though.

I agree 100%. I'm a magicka templar and I think I'll switch backlash for javelin next patch. Spam javelin and sweeps yeah baby lol

Shantu

In PVE, I have always loved playing my magicka templar. it was my first character 3 years ago. The varied skill set was always fun and very effective. But now skills feels so watered down and uninspiring. Take shards, for example. Always has been a staple skill for the templar. Now? Cost has risen and damage nerfed to where it's essentially useless. Combat used to be fun, but now? Meh. Maybe I'll adapt and find the fun again...if I have the patience to endure this nerf madness.

Delparis

Please lower the puncturing strikes and its morphs cast time from 1 sec to 0.8 sec to help us weave properly.
Increase the dmg so our main class spammable is worth slotting instead of using elemental weapons which is over performing atm

Aionna

From a templar healer point of view, it seems that you remove options from our toolkit because shards and purifying light are off the table.

Cinbri

Regarding Backlash change:
1. Change is not as positive as it look, because request was to make skill more reliable for caster to deal burst damage and make so only caster store it. But zos made in only half-way and decreased group utility capability without actually making it any better for caster. It was already impossible to reach damage cap even with group utility unless you largely outnumber opponent like 4v1 or fight afk player, templar overall dps will decrease in next update and now with only caster store it will be impossible to reach cap because amount of stored damage wasn't increased in return of lost group utility for some reason. This skill already supbar to other burst skills because unlike them it require caster to be fully offensive for entire duration of skill while rest of burst can be used either defensive(you can light attacks even when outnumbered) or fire-and-forget but there is no accountment for this.

2. There is problems with how skill perform because zos want to push it to be workable in pve and pvp.
Final damage despite should be just % of stored damage:
a. can be reduced by damage taken effect but also can be increased by vulnerabilities debuff, so fair here.
b. can be reduced by Red CP but can't be increased by Blue CP - if you cant fix it than make Blue CP affect it too, otherwise we just have skill with like triple reduction.
c. It now double dip in crit. In PvP this wont make skill super strong because it just adding rng to it which is too conditional. Change was done because skill in pve seriously underperform - you can instant cast frag that require almost no efforts yet backlash deal same damage despite it require efforts of storing damage <- inconsistent and so crit should help to make it actually dps skill but it also break rule of skills should not double dip. However there is way to achieve strong pvp/pve backlash without double diping crit:
Skill now store damage only of caster and thus relative mechanics should be addressed.
I suggest to do several steps:
1. Remove crit from final explosion, so skill will avoid double dips that were removed from game previously to avoid too much power.
2. Remove damage cap: one of the reasons skill had originally cap is that coz it was able to store damage from all sources.
Here is remind if combat team forgot it:

It was way to avoid ridiculously high damage in both pvp and pve when entire group store damage. However now when skill store only caster damage - get super high numbers simply impossible. Removing both crit and max cap will allow in PvE - to keep it as dps skill because if damage will be enough - it will deal damage comprable to current crittable backlash anyway, without being artificial limitier. In PvP cap is impossible to reach and thus it existence is formality.
3. Increase amount of stored damage back to numbers pre-2.3.5 patch. Reason of having low store damage is same as cap - to avoid super high damage numbers with group, which is not the case now and thus cant stay on that low level. It could be done in couple ways:
a. Just revert amount of stored damage to something familiar of 2.3.5 - i.e. twice of what it now.
b. To make it benefit for dps make percentage of stored damage scale, based on spd/max mana/wpd/max stam, like it was done for Engulfing Flames to distinguish it for dps-oriented chars. Also since max mana cap need to be removed it wont have double diping by max mana scaling.

3. And back to practice: in PvE skill works fine but it seems something messed up with either Battle Spirit or Crit Damage or Champion System again because when it goes to PvP damage results are weird:
1. Initial damage is counting for stored damage of final explosion:

^^ doing fast test with it shows something wrong with how damage calculate in pvp. Damage numbers of released damage is too different even with same circumstances and released damage is higher than 100% of stored damage.

2. Trying bit more damage to store shows it again:

^^final explosion even without being crit dealt more than 100% of total damage done during backlash store. Definitely not 20%.


Living Dark:
1. As showed in previous posts skill is below similar skills because it cost higher and it duration is lower than Scales or Crystal Shield. Bring it cost and duration to standards of those skills.
2. Having snares proc is going against plans to decrease redundancy within class tree as templar already have lot of skills that snare. Having another skill whos unique auxiliary power is one more snares is going against it and thus one of solution I suggest to make it equal to comparable skills and restore it original capability of Total Dark - make darkness lashes back and deal damage every 0.5s that equal to Fiery Dragon Scales and Crystallized Slab. It wont be against how morphs of Eclipse operate because both morphs are offensive originally while difference is that one is defensive buff, other is debuff CC.

aaronwilliams017b14_ESO

Change to backlash for only the catsers damage will store will nerf this skill that no one will use it. Alot of healers use it as targeting for the team with the heal at the end but will now have no damage cause the healer won't have any damage with it. Another terrible decision by the zos team!

Stibbons

Major sorcery/brutality to Templars!

Rhaegar75

Stibbons wrote: »

Major sorcery/brutality to Templars!

THIS

MCBIZZLE300

Extended ritual provides too many benefits. It heals, it snares, it cleanses and it creates a synergie. I think the snare should only be available from ritual of retribution to bring it in line with similar abilites like hex proof that provides nothing more apart from a slight passive. Templars are too strong right now in pvp because of the utility skills they have, the snare is not needed and you should have 1 or the other, a snare and less cleanse or more cleanse and no snare.

Stibbons

Well hex proof is free to cast if you have even small amout of healing. With necro i can hex proof all dots when ever i want, literally. Resto backbar and intensive mender. Extended ritual is expensive and you cannot spam remove dots with it. You just cannot compare those two skills.

MCBIZZLE300

Stibbons wrote: »

Well hex proof is free to cast if you have even small amout of healing. With necro i can hex proof all dots when ever i want, literally. Resto backbar and intensive mender. Extended ritual is expensive and you cannot spam remove dots with it. You just cannot compare those two skills.

Hex proof costs health.

ThePedge

Get rid of CC from Living Dark, Stamina is losing it's only but this can apply ranged CC to an unlimited amount of targets while healing you. Great balance.

Solariken

Master Ritualist rework:

OLD:
Increases resurrection speed by 20%.

Resurrected allies return with 100% more Health.

Gives you a 50% chance to gain a soul gem after each successful resurrection.


NEW:
Reduces all cast times by 20% (includes heavy attacks!). Landing a heavy attack provides Major Brutality and Major Sorcery for 20 seconds.

Delparis

Cinbri wrote: »

Regarding Backlash change:
1. Change is not as positive as it look, because request was to make skill more reliable for caster to deal burst damage and make so only caster store it. But zos made in only half-way and decreased group utility capability without actually making it any better for caster. It was already impossible to reach damage cap even with group utility unless you largely outnumber opponent like 4v1 or fight afk player, templar overall dps will decrease in next update and now with only caster store it will be impossible to reach cap because amount of stored damage wasn't increased in return of lost group utility for some reason. This skill already supbar to other burst skills because unlike them it require caster to be fully offensive for entire duration of skill while rest of burst can be used either defensive(you can light attacks even when outnumbered) or fire-and-forget but there is no accountment for this.

2. There is problems with how skill perform because zos want to push it to be workable in pve and pvp.
Final damage despite should be just % of stored damage:
a. can be reduced by damage taken effect but also can be increased by vulnerabilities debuff, so fair here.
b. can be reduced by Red CP but can't be increased by Blue CP - if you cant fix it than make Blue CP affect it too, otherwise we just have skill with like triple reduction.
c. It now double dip in crit. In PvP this wont make skill super strong because it just adding rng to it which is too conditional. Change was done because skill in pve seriously underperform - you can instant cast frag that require almost no efforts yet backlash deal same damage despite it require efforts of storing damage <- inconsistent and so crit should help to make it actually dps skill but it also break rule of skills should not double dip. However there is way to achieve strong pvp/pve backlash without double diping crit:
Skill now store damage only of caster and thus relative mechanics should be addressed.
I suggest to do several steps:
1. Remove crit from final explosion, so skill will avoid double dips that were removed from game previously to avoid too much power.
2. Remove damage cap: one of the reasons skill had originally cap is that coz it was able to store damage from all sources.
Here is remind if combat team forgot it:

It was way to avoid ridiculously high damage in both pvp and pve when entire group store damage. However now when skill store only caster damage - get super high numbers simply impossible. Removing both crit and max cap will allow in PvE - to keep it as dps skill because if damage will be enough - it will deal damage comprable to current crittable backlash anyway, without being artificial limitier. In PvP cap is impossible to reach and thus it existence is formality.
3. Increase amount of stored damage back to numbers pre-2.3.5 patch. Reason of having low store damage is same as cap - to avoid super high damage numbers with group, which is not the case now and thus cant stay on that low level. It could be done in couple ways:
a. Just revert amount of stored damage to something familiar of 2.3.5 - i.e. twice of what it now.
b. To make it benefit for dps make percentage of stored damage scale, based on spd/max mana/wpd/max stam, like it was done for Engulfing Flames to distinguish it for dps-oriented chars. Also since max mana cap need to be removed it wont have double diping by max mana scaling.

3. And back to practice: in PvE skill works fine but it seems something messed up with either Battle Spirit or Crit Damage or Champion System again because when it goes to PvP damage results are weird:
1. Initial damage is counting for stored damage of final explosion:

^^ doing fast test with it shows something wrong with how damage calculate in pvp. Damage numbers of released damage is too different even with same circumstances and released damage is higher than 100% of stored damage.

2. Trying bit more damage to store shows it again:

^^final explosion even without being crit dealt more than 100% of total damage done during backlash store. Definitely not 20%.


Living Dark:
1. As showed in previous posts skill is below similar skills because it cost higher and it duration is lower than Scales or Crystal Shield. Bring it cost and duration to standards of those skills.
2. Having snares proc is going against plans to decrease redundancy within class tree as templar already have lot of skills that snare. Having another skill whos unique auxiliary power is one more snares is going against it and thus one of solution I suggest to make it equal to comparable skills and restore it original capability of Total Dark - make darkness lashes back and deal damage every 0.5s that equal to Fiery Dragon Scales and Crystallized Slab. It wont be against how morphs of Eclipse operate because both morphs are offensive originally while difference is that one is defensive buff, other is debuff CC.

You can also increase the % from 20% to 40% to make that dmg cap reachable

Hymzir

Could I just trade Backlash for Frags or Curse? I'll even throw in Sun Shield as a free extra if I can make the trade.

Essavias

Hymzir wrote: »

Could I just trade Backlash for Frags or Curse? I'll even throw in Sun Shield as a free extra if I can make the trade.

I'd also throw post 5.2 Shards into the mix.

Stibbons

Essavias wrote: »

Hymzir wrote: »

Could I just trade Backlash for Frags or Curse? I'll even throw in Sun Shield as a free extra if I can make the trade.

I'd also throw post 5.2 Shards into the mix.

I would also trade those all and put into mix Dark Flare and Healing Ritual (both morphs).

SeaUnicorn

Solar barrage is an odd kid on the block with shorter DOT duration (8s) than other commonly used DOTs (10s). Please align it so we don't have to do whackamole mini game with our rotations.

ZeroXFF

Still no word about them fixing the resist bonus of Balanced Warrior to make it useful with the changes to resistances on gear, because screw tanks.

jbjondeaueb17_ESO

Two things about Puncturing Strikes :
- for both morphs, with their damage only being affected by Direct Damage CP, be sure that players on the other side of Puncturing Strikes have their defense only affected by the corresponding defensive CP
- for the Magicka morph, you reduce the damage by being only affected by Direct Damage CP but no compensation was given for the healing portion which is, again, reduced since it depends of damage done

Delparis

jbjondeaueb17_ESO wrote: »

Two things about Puncturing Strikes :
- for both morphs, with their damage only being affected by Direct Damage CP, be sure that players on the other side of Puncturing Strikes have their defense only affected by the corresponding defensive CP
- for the Magicka morph, you reduce the damage by being only affected by Direct Damage CP but no compensation was given for the healing portion which is, again, reduced since it depends of damage done

Puncturing strikes and morphs need a buff to their dmg as DW weapon (Flurry) and psijic (elemental weapons) does more dmg.

That's laughable that the main class spammable is underperforming vs support skills.

Delparis

Thread update for templars !
An open letter to ZoS combat team: if you got more spared nerfs we'll gladly take them. No reason to let other classes get all the fun. Thanks

Edit cause my be considered as baiting