Upcoming Patch Highlights & In-Progress Updates

Ohioastro

...and it will be nice to have alchemy play a useful role, instead of having an unlimited supply of potions from repeatedly killing the same loot pinata. And there is actually a point to the soul gem purchases and skills! Why would people think that it's working as intended to completely short-circuit game mechanics and skills?

lfseeney_ESO

Never gotten a Blue off a boss, most times just a gold or two, and a few greens.

Now it seems that will be never.

Would rather have some Token system to be honest, as this will mean I never get a blue from one.

A bound item would make more sense to be honest.

Kill the boss get X loot, if you can use it great if not, sell to vendor or break down for crafting.

The only challenge so far has been 4 person areas and a very few solo only places.

Bosses should pose a threat.

nudel

ArtemisAiden wrote: »

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ in regards to public dungeon boss loot timers, I first of applaud you guys for listening to feedback and recognize that the botters and people endlessly camping the spawn (to a lesser extent as I do not see camping a reliable source for crafting mats as much as a problem) are causing a major problem here. However I feel you are really missing the mark on the solution. I for one enter every public dungeon with 2 things in mind. First, I need to find the skyshard. Second, I need to kill the boss until I get his until I get the blue drop off him. Once this happens I generally leave the dungeon, but this is my primary source of blue gear on my Nightblade. It is nearly impossible to get instanced dungeon runs without waiting 30 minutes or more to find a group, so now you are denying my character the shot at blue pieces of gear from public delves now too? This also completely ignores the fact that public dungeons are the only reliable place other than instanced dungeons to farm potions and soul shards. I sincerely hope you reconsider this change or at least adjust the implementation to only trigger the timer after you get the unique item off the boss or something along those lines to prevent this from absolutely screwing over the players who are legitimately trying to keep up with the game while working within the systems that you created.
TL;DR: I like the idea of addressing the issues in public dungeons, but feel the proposed solution hurts legitimate players more than it solves the problem.

This is pretty much what I've been saying all along here and being accused of being a farmer or botter the entire time. Some people don't care about getting a unique item off of a boss. Good for you. That does not apply to everyone. Personally, I try to get the unique so I can see what it is. I want to satisfy my curiosity and maybe get an upgrade to equip. I'm not going to sit there and farm the boss to get 30 of these damned things. But if it doesn't drop the first time, I might stay around for 2 or 3 more kills. You have more patience then I. I don't think I'd stay there for even 12 drops.

The problem is right now the boss respawns whenever a new player enters the dungeon so I may get roped into killing it again without wanting to. In the course of looking through boxes and barrels for other loot before leaving, I get spawned on. And I'm not just gonna sit there and get beat on and killed so that I don't 'farm the boss' on accident. This is really the worst possible way to spawn a boss since the player that triggered the spawn is never going to get to the boss in time to kill it unless the dungeon is completely empty or the boss has a megacrapload of health. The timer issue does absolutely nothing to fix that terrible respawn mechanic.

I am all for making the drop unique and bound. As I said, I don't want a dozen of them. This already works well for overworld bosses which aren't typically camped possibly for this reason. I don't see how that is a more complicated solution than what they're implementing now. As it stands, I don't see this timer putting a serious dent into botting or even any serious farmers. All it will do is punish legitimate players.

Imryll

derpmonster wrote: »

Wouldn't it make more sense to make the boss monsters somewhat harder to kill so they aren't insta-gibbed instantly when they spawn? Increase their health/damage/resistance based on how many people are near? The proposed changes won't fix the actual problem just make it more tedious getting the blue item we want from them.

Wouldn't that be a less negative way of fixing them problem?

No. The change gives folks hope of actually talking to bosses to find out why they need killing. We also don't know what the limits actually are. They've not said that folks will be prevented from making two or three consecutive attempts to get an item or whether the timers are aimed more at the stand-there-indefinitely crowd.

To me it's a lot like not allowing players to monopolize a chest until they've run out of picks, but giving others a shot after a failed attempt.

nudel

ragamerb16_ESO wrote: »

Clearly you do not know how that works... No amount of 'Teleport to Player' is going to put you in a phase where the boss is alive if your completion is set to make the boss appear dead. This already affects several major quest areas. And people have been frustrated by it.

Read my edit (You posted while I was explaining the other "phasing")... Those aren't generalized and I have helped a good bunch of ppl like that as tank... If you found a private instance like that, report it because it's not the default behaviour (On early access we got a problem in Eborhart with the Balreth questline... Specifically on its private phase... That was solved later making it behave normally when ppl in different states of the questline entered together as group).

In any case I fail to see how all this relates to a loot timer to encourage ppl to not kill the same public boss on, a public instance over and over and over... If you are just helping a friend, does it matter if you get loot?

If you read the post I replied to it was a suggestion that the dungeons should all operate as phases wherein the player is phased into a completion stage and therefore cannot kill the boss again.

Enodoc

nudel wrote: »

Brank wrote: »

You miss the point, you can get loot without farming for loot

I'll state again that IMO the best way to thwart gold spammers and maintain the economy and value of crafted items is to instance the bosses:
Come to the end of the dungeon, kill the boss, popped out into another instance where the boss has been killed. and that's it. you get whatever loot you got from that boss, time to move on and ACTUALLY PLAY THE GAME.

People are already frustrated with phasing as it is. I get it. You want the boss to be good and dead for immersion and to curb farming/ botting. What happens when your friend/ little brother/ guildmate needs help killing that boss that you killed a few hours ago? You being a nice person say, 'Sure I'll help ya'. You get there and you're in different phases. You can't heal him/ her. You can't help attack. Is this going to be one big single player game except for Cyrodiil?

In this case, what Brank and I are suggesting would happen is that, after being popped out into another instance where the boss has been killed, when you flip the exit switch, the dungeon is reset and you're back in a phase where the boss can spawn. Then you're in a phase where you can help your friend/brother/guildmate kill the boss.

vnlouis

nudel wrote: »

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

Buppas wrote: »

Timers on bosses - this isn't even a bandaid on a fleshwound, it's sprinkling unicorn farting dusts on a infected fleshwound. This dosn't solve any issue at all, and here's why:
Bots: Will not care about a timer, they will still stand there and farm the bosses repeatedly, The thing with bots is that they are automated, so it dosnt matter if it takes 1min or 30min for them to get loot again.

No, because hopefully ZOS will have the sense to make the timer several hours or a day long, for both loot and xp. Not a few minutes as most people seem to be imagining. Bots will not employ resources in an area where they get no gain all day.

You do realize that this timer affects all dungeons and delves...everywhere in every zone right. Are you (as a normal explorer) really going to take a complete break from every single dungeon in the game because you've already done your one for the day? I really hope ZOS doesn't take you up on your suggestion.

I would think they will be smart enough not to make such an obvious mistake. Do people really think they would make a change that would prevent players from gaining rewards for normal playing behavior? I do think the timer will be as long as it needs to be to discourage farming, if that means a couple of hours then so be it, but I also think there will be a plan in place to ensure that normal game play is not affected. One obvious solution would be to allow a player to get loot if its the first time they are ever killing a boss regardless of the timer.

nudel

Ohioastro wrote: »

nudel wrote: »

I don't like that people in support of this change to non-instanced dungeons seem to think that because they only care about the achievement, naturally only "depraved farmers and botters" care about the loot. This is simply not true. Some care about the achievement. Some care about the loot. Some care about both. Some care about neither and just want to explore. Why does any playstyle have to be punished simply because it's not your playstyle?

Because it utterly destroys immersion to have the most challenging, capstone encounter in a dungeon be one that lasts seconds and has a huge pile of corpses. There are areas where the normal opponents drop decent gear. Go around and attack those over and over and over if you want to get a lot of drops. Make the bosses actually challenging and interesting encounters.

You are completely missing my point and actually proving it in doing so. You are assuming because I care about the loot that I am automatically a farmer looking to get rich. I'm actually rather poor right now since I spend much of my time crafting, reading lorebooks, and searching for treasure maps (not b/c of their loot but b/c they're fun...the loot is actually pretty crap). But go ahead and just assume that b/c I care about getting something other than 2 gold and an Iron Dagger from a Dungeon Boss that I'm a greedy scumsucking goldseller who sets up botters when I'm not busy scamming ppl with my farming ways. You assume that no playstyle other than your own is a valid one. The problem here is that in trying to target the botters which are a legitimate problem, you and ZOS have targeted the players whom you somehow believe are just as bad.

Ohioastro

If you're saying that bosses should have nice one time drops, I agree. If you're saying that they should be unlimited sources of blue drops, potions, and soul gems - with no challenge at all except your willingness to stand in one place repeating something - I disagree. The latter can't possibly be working as intended, and MMOs always correct for these sorts of things with tweaks when they are discovered.

elblobbob14_ESO

Regarding dungeon bosses. I have been in several dungeons where I got the dungeon achievement without getting any loot from the boss. Why not attach the blue boss drop to the achievement, and actually have the dungeon boss drop nothing. That way, when you get the dungeon achievement, you get the blue drop once, and only once. No one (farmers or botters), will camp the boss, as the boss itself will not drop anything. The only reason to kill the boss would be to get the dungeon achievement, which would also give you the blue drop. I think this would accomplish a couple things. First, everyone will get the blue drop if they are involved in killing the dungeon boss. Botters/Farmers won't camp the boss, thus making killing the boss an actual challenge, which is as it should be. As it is now, the boss mob is the least threatening mob in the dungeon. If botters/farmers want to farm loot in the dungeon, they can run around and kill the regular mob spawns and get all the white/occasional-green/rare-blue drops they want.

Programmatically, this would be the easiest to implement.

I may be in the minority here, but right now, dungeons are the easiest places in the game, between regular players and farmers making their way to the boss, as well as the herd of farmers/botters surrounding the boss, I can't remember the last time making my way through a dungeon was even the least bit challenging. Isn't that the purpose of dungeons? to be harder and more challenging than the area around them?

Anyway, just my two cents.

Blobs.

vnlouis

nudel wrote: »

Ohioastro wrote: »

nudel wrote: »

I don't like that people in support of this change to non-instanced dungeons seem to think that because they only care about the achievement, naturally only "depraved farmers and botters" care about the loot. This is simply not true. Some care about the achievement. Some care about the loot. Some care about both. Some care about neither and just want to explore. Why does any playstyle have to be punished simply because it's not your playstyle?

Because it utterly destroys immersion to have the most challenging, capstone encounter in a dungeon be one that lasts seconds and has a huge pile of corpses. There are areas where the normal opponents drop decent gear. Go around and attack those over and over and over if you want to get a lot of drops. Make the bosses actually challenging and interesting encounters.

You are completely missing my point and actually proving it in doing so. You are assuming because I care about the loot that I am automatically a farmer looking to get rich. I'm actually rather poor right now since I spend much of my time crafting, reading lorebooks, and searching for treasure maps (not b/c of their loot but b/c they're fun...the loot is actually pretty crap). But go ahead and just assume that b/c I care about getting something other than 2 gold and an Iron Dagger from a Dungeon Boss that I'm a greedy scumsucking goldseller who sets up botters when I'm not busy scamming ppl with my farming ways. You assume that no playstyle other than your own is a valid one. The problem here is that in trying to target the botters which are a legitimate problem, you and ZOS have targeted the players whom you somehow believe are just as bad.

The fact that you are not farming for gold does not mean you are not part of the problem, farming for items is still farming and this kind of behavior has an adverse effect on others playing the game, hence the changes.

Saint_JiubB14_ESO

djenairapreeb18_ESO wrote: »

Thinking on the loot limitations, there is an awful lot of discussion on a mechanic that isn't even implemented right now. We do not yet know how it will work, so the doomsaying is kind of premature.

A way this could work very well: You are "permitted" to loot 10 public dungeon/delve bosses within a 24h period. Whether you do it 10 times in a row or distributed over the 24h is up to you. Whether you do it in one dungeon (to get that one elusive blue/purple piece you're keen on) or in 10 different ones (to get credits for finishing them), is up to you.

You can even do it to get several blue drops to vendor them for your mount. But after the 10 times loot, you have to wait for 24h to try again.

This limits the amount of loot you can get in a short period of time, does not inhibit progress for the human player, allows for limited farming in order to support your monetary needs (in a way that should be, if not suitable then at least not bothersome for the normal player) while limiting botters in their exaggerated farming.

Now make the 10 times limit character based and add an account wide limit accommodating for 3 or 4 characters, and it should be acceptable for most people until the botting issue is resolved on a more base level.

The numbers I picked above are just used to explain the idea, not necessarily those that I would like to see implemented.

This is actually a good start to an idea, it allows farmers to farm their desired locations but still keeps players capable of exploring on their own. the numbers could be tweaked but it's nice to see some positive solutions.

vizionblind_ESO

waiting for nameplate additions

Saint_JiubB14_ESO

nudel wrote: »

I don't like that people in support of this change to non-instanced dungeons seem to think that because they only care about the achievement, naturally only "depraved farmers and botters" care about the loot. This is simply not true. Some care about the achievement. Some care about the loot. Some care about both. Some care about neither and just want to explore. Why does any playstyle have to be punished simply because it's not your playstyle?

Exactly, a solution should benefit everyone. the only group we should scorn are botters.

Lifacs

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We’ll be pushing a new patch during our regularly scheduled maintenance time tomorrow. The full patch notes will be available during the maintenance period, but we wanted to share the highlights with you now since they were a direct result of your feedback:

Waiting anxiously on the full patch notes. as stated.

DigitalStorm

I was fully unaware that public dungeons had loot.... I did them for the achievements because there were always so many bots there I'd be lucky to get a hit in. I'm stoked for new patch sounds like a lot is gonna be goin on

Enodoc

Lifacs wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We’ll be pushing a new patch during our regularly scheduled maintenance time tomorrow. The full patch notes will be available during the maintenance period, but we wanted to share the highlights with you now since they were a direct result of your feedback:

Waiting anxiously on the full patch notes. as stated.

The full patch notes are already out http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/78407/patch-notes-v1-0-3

Rotherhans

Hope this Dungeon timer is accountwide, otherwise the "Farmers" will just park alts in a spot and log from one to the next.

I´m amazed such a timer is even possible and quite frankly it reeks of rush job, so I´m not very optimistic how smart the timer is.
Does it even have a separate counter for every Dungeon?

Wavemoore

I don't think the problem was people farming the bosses. The problem was the mechanic to get loot was set too high to be able to get enough damage on the boss before he died. That was the major complaint. As a sorcerer I had to be creative to get in enough damage to get loot and sometimes it took me several tries to get it.

Implementing a system that delays getting loot isn't going to fix this problem in my opinion. There will still be a bunch of people (and possibly bots) around the boss and the same problem of not getting enough damage in to get loot still exists.

So, I'm sure you may have fixed a problem with people getting too much gold off a simple boss, but you've done nothing to address the mechanic of what it takes to get loot. This is also true of Dark Anchors and zone bosses and is not specific to public dungeons.

Some options (and they all have pros and cons):

1.) Change the mechanic to require just a single hit to get loot.
2.) Change the boss health to scale based on how many people are attacking it
3.) Lower the % of damage required to get loot

I think any of those changes solves this problem. If people want to stand there all day and loot a public dungeon boss for low level whites and maybe a blue, then let them but others still have a chance to kill the boss and get loot and then leave.

The current fix assumes this change will drive players away from the boss areas to let others in to get their hits/damage on the boss. If that happens then I guess you can claim success, but I don't think it's going to work out that way.

Imryll

DigitalStorm wrote: »

I was fully unaware that public dungeons had loot.... I did them for the achievements because there were always so many bots there I'd be lucky to get a hit in. I'm stoked for new patch sounds like a lot is gonna be goin on

Of course they have loot! All those crates of cooking ingredients. I also anticipate having an actual shot at drops as a result of this change.

nudel

Ohioastro wrote: »

If you're saying that bosses should have nice one time drops, I agree. If you're saying that they should be unlimited sources of blue drops, potions, and soul gems - with no challenge at all except your willingness to stand in one place repeating something - I disagree. The latter can't possibly be working as intended, and MMOs always correct for these sorts of things with tweaks when they are discovered.

I agree. I don't think bosses should be loot piñatas. I would prefer a challenging fight followed up by decent loot, which is part of what makes the overworld bosses more fun. However, neither of those things are in place right now and the timer does not correct either. The boss will still roll over and die. When it does, you may get disappointing loot and have to wait a potentially long time before killing another disappointing boss for equally disappointing loot. I would much rather see dungeon boss health and damage buffed and their named drop being made unique and bound. Having their stats scale based on players around them would be the best solution. Furthermore, if the fight were actually challenging, we wouldn't even be having this discussion about 'farming' because those drops would be earned. I haven't seen anyone accuse someone who repeats an anchor of farming it.

I'm even more concerned about how this will affect public dungeons with several named elites. If I kill one elite in the public dungeon, will I now receive no loot on the others within the same dungeon. They're technically dungeon/ delve bosses.

nudel

Enodoc wrote: »

In this case, what Brank and I are suggesting would happen is that, after being popped out into another instance where the boss has been killed, when you flip the exit switch, the dungeon is reset and you're back in a phase where the boss can spawn. Then you're in a phase where you can help your friend/brother/guildmate kill the boss.

An interesting suggestion. Wouldn't bots still be able to get around it? I see teleporting bots instantly jumping from node to node topside. Could they not use similar hacks to teleport out of the dungeon and then teleport back in? I'm genuinely asking here.

Lifacs

[/quote]
The full patch notes are already out http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/78407/patch-notes-v1-0-3[/quote]
I just went to the Official news and patch notes page and the topic is not listed. I can click you click and go to it however. The latest post I see that created was on 4/9/2014.
I take it back I found it. It is buried under the subtopic previous patch notes.
This is just another example on how the CS system is creating more problems than it is solving. Why wouldn't the patch notes be under the main topic Patch notes? Instead it's put it in an obscure link above the topics that doesn't even look like a link.

Ohioastro

nudel wrote: »

Ohioastro wrote: »

If you're saying that bosses should have nice one time drops, I agree. If you're saying that they should be unlimited sources of blue drops, potions, and soul gems - with no challenge at all except your willingness to stand in one place repeating something - I disagree. The latter can't possibly be working as intended, and MMOs always correct for these sorts of things with tweaks when they are discovered.

I agree. I don't think bosses should be loot piñatas. I would prefer a challenging fight followed up by decent loot, which is part of what makes the overworld bosses more fun. However, neither of those things are in place right now and the timer does not correct either. The boss will still roll over and die. When it does, you may get disappointing loot and have to wait a potentially long time before killing another disappointing boss for equally disappointing loot. I would much rather see dungeon boss health and damage buffed and their named drop being made unique and bound. Having their stats scale based on players around them would be the best solution. Furthermore, if the fight were actually challenging, we wouldn't even be having this discussion about 'farming' because those drops would be earned. I haven't seen anyone accuse someone who repeats an anchor of farming it.

I'm even more concerned about how this will affect public dungeons with several named elites. If I kill one elite in the public dungeon, will I now receive no loot on the others within the same dungeon. They're technically dungeon/ delve bosses.

I think that there should be quests tied to the bosses with quest rewards for defeating them. They then directly drop only trivial loot. This gives a reward, and also no reason for a dozen people to be standing around repeatedly zapping them. I also think that they should have areas where the landscape mobs drop a reasonable number of normal items so that people can run around and collect things there. I just don't want the bosses to be the easiest loot source and the least challenging thing that I run across - where the game is to tap them in the seconds that they live.

Making the boss fights tougher is not a wise long term strategy because you still want them to be useful once the crowds have moved on, which always happens in MMOs. Right now if you wander into a public dungeon that is out of the way (or at off hours) the design is actually interesting and challenging. If you need a dozen people to defeat them they would be impossible.

mordicai052

I would say the headstart/launch window of ESO proves that beta should be a testing phase of a game, not a marketing phase.

jigzienrb18_ESO

Can you please test the patch before launching it, id rather play with a few bugs in the game than loose the ability to play..
Its not okay to patch the game and then later bring it down because the patch screwed the server.

BobZul

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Public Dungeon & Delve Boss Monsters – Also based on feedback, we will be placing a timer on how often you can get loot from public dungeon and delve boss monsters. This timer is shared across all boss monsters in public dungeons and delves.

Are you in turn making it more likely that delve bosses will drop their specific blue item on the first kill?
Does this mean that when i kill the boss three times and it drops a potato each time, the fourth time i kill it, it will have absolutely no chance to drop the blue item?
How will this affect the leveling difficulty? I am currently relying on those blue drops.

Kanedo

Zhakim wrote: »

Kanedo wrote: »

There are other great mmo's that have zero issues with bots, gold sellers and boss farmers. There are systems that will fix these issues and end this argument, its upto Zenimax to stand up, be brave and make their game hard as nails.. so what if the average player has to work hard for his loot or his gold! thats part of the fun right?

Stop gear drops from bosses, these guys are old and more often dead or from another plane of existence.. why do they even carry these random items anyway? drop a token or fragment of something that we then have to barter for gear of our choice!

Make the dungeon a daily thing.. killed 'King Blowhard III! today..Great, come back tomorrow and try for another token.. i dunno, it could work

Rather than introduce a token system like so many other games, I would prefer if the boss drop a quest item that actually has something to do with the game. For example, a Wamasu scale could be taken to a woodworker or blacksmith NPC who then crafts you an item of your choice using that scale. Another example could be the broken blade of an ancient Draugr king could be reforged into a blade of your choice. Instead of turning it into another game of a thousand currencies, make the damned thing an actual role-playing game with some depth.

Well thats what i was referring to.. maybe my catch all wording of 'Token' was a little vague.

Zershar_Vemod

Public Dungeon & Delve Boss Monsters – Also based on feedback, we will be placing a timer on how often you can get loot from public dungeon and delve boss monsters. This timer is shared across all boss monsters in public dungeons and delves. This will not impact loot timers for quest-specific monsters or overworld group bosses. Watch the patch notes for news on when this change will go live.

Feedback from whom I'd like to know - wonder if it's the same group that screamed "exploit" to people leveling up in PvP...because that "feedback" turned out well.

So if I want to go do a ton of dungeons in a day, myself and others will be punished because of this? That's all I need, less chances on getting loot for my characters and gold that I barely have already. Just wow...some of these changes are just filled with nonsense.

luceri84b14_ESO

Instead of a hack fix like a timer, why wouldn't you do something like scale the boss's difficulty to the amount of players present?

Give it a lot more health, everyone will get credit, and it'll be difficult enough that bots should hopefully get killed. Everyone wins and you have a new group mechanic worth using.