The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
[Class Rep] Sorcerer Feedback Thread
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Saril_Durzam✭✭✭✭For the last days, ive been doing several parses and it was worse than i thought, the DPS is lower than before patch. Dots look nice on the paper but it´s not as easy to put them work since its DPS isnt as good and mainly due lenght differences. If ZoS wanted to standarize damage... why not durations? Its just not the number of keys i have to press - my other toons also push a good number of keys -, it´s that the numbers dont fit.
Still working on improving my rotation, tested using others and my own and neither was good enough.
Dissapointed.Edited by Saril_Durzam on August 29, 2019 11:00PM2 -
Delparis✭✭✭✭✭Main pain point for pet build is you need to slot the same pet skill in both bars
Main paint point with sorc shields is you need to slot 2 shields skill to get 100% of the shield in pvp, just remove shield stacking and make shield 100% in pvp instead of 50%3 -
Major_Lag✭✭✭✭✭
✭
What? Show me the 2 shields you are stacking to get 100% in PvP, I'd certainly like to see that.Main paint point with sorc shields is you need to slot 2 shields skill to get 100% of the shield in pvp, just remove shield stacking and make shield 100% in pvp instead of 50%
Because of the nerfs to scaling, you will not even reach 50% on Hardened with any non-cheese build that's actually viable in PvP; never mind on Harness/Dampen.
In no way does that add up to anywhere close to 100%.2 -
Delparis✭✭✭✭✭
What? Show me the 2 shields you are stacking to get 100% in PvP, I'd certainly like to see that.Main paint point with sorc shields is you need to slot 2 shields skill to get 100% of the shield in pvp, just remove shield stacking and make shield 100% in pvp instead of 50%
Because of the nerfs to scaling, you will not even reach 50% on Hardened with any non-cheese build that's actually viable in PvP; never mind on Harness/Dampen.
In no way does that add up to anywhere close to 100%.
100% of the shield (size).
With 2 shields I am at ~58% of max health shield size (33% hardened and 25% dampen).1 -
Major_Lag✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oh, you meant the Battle Spirit 50% reduction, not 100% as in "shield strength = 100% of HP", that was rather confusing.
In any case, how does the sustain on shieldstacking look like?
In CP-enabled PvP I can see this being somewhat viable maybe - but in no-CP, not bloody likely.1 -
TiZzA93✭✭✭So another thread someone mentioned stamsorc is getting some love in dragonhold, anyone have any details?
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Major_Lag✭✭✭✭✭
✭By now I fully expect ZOS to completely gut what remains of magsorc to "make room for" the stamina morphs, as they have already done with Power Surge "for healers" while completely screwing over damage dealers
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Delparis✭✭✭✭✭Oh, you meant the Battle Spirit 50% reduction, not 100% as in "shield strength = 100% of HP", that was rather confusing.
In any case, how does the sustain on shieldstacking look like?
In CP-enabled PvP I can see this being somewhat viable maybe - but in no-CP, not bloody likely.
Pretty good with lich as sustain set and magicka recovery food. With pots when in need I'm always at +20% magicka. Engine gardien monster set give also a lot of magicka or stamina that can be converted into magicka.0 -
Saril_Durzam✭✭✭✭Tormentor needs some work. FIrst of all, a plain damage buff (around 25% at least), and not such a conditional skill. Maybe just 8% increase, on any kind of % health? Actually, i´d go with another AOE range on it. I think there could be several options.
Personally, i would add a chain lightning skill. Some AOE damage that puts enemies off balance.
Also, Matriarch heal and damage should be modified by Spell Damage aswell (for standarization on skills).
Edited by Saril_Durzam on September 2, 2019 3:56PM0 -
Saril_Durzam✭✭✭✭We need also some more stamina morphs. Could maybe stamina pets morphs? Clannfear should be one. Instead of the heal, maybe an AOE bleed, or maim?
Also, we just need pets scale with maximum resource, instead of max magicka. Oh, and SD should affect pets, hard to standarize skills if not.Edited by Saril_Durzam on September 2, 2019 3:57PM1 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Saril_Durzam wrote: »Tormentor needs some work. FIrst of all, a plain damage buff (around 25% at least), and not such a conditional skill. Maybe just 8% increase, on any kind of % health? Actually, i´d go with another AOE range on it. I think there could be several options.
Personally, i would add a chain lightning skill. Some AOE damage that puts enemies off balance.
There's already plenty of AOE dmg in the sorc toolkit. More than any other class
- Scamp
- Steak
- Liquid Lighting
- Curse
- Crystal Blast
- Boundless/Hurricane
... as well as the good synergy with Lightning Staff heavies due to Lightning damage bonus. And lightning enchants give you all the off-balance up time you need anyway.
You know what the class is completely missing? A Spammable. That's what the Tormentor's special attack should be.EU | PC | AD0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭JusticeSouldier wrote: »
Yeah, because having a spammable on a double-barred, killable pet is definitely homogenising Sorc with all the other classes that also have double barred, killable pets. But every mag class playing fire destro with either Pulse or Ele Weapon is not homogenisation.
EU | PC | AD1 -
JusticeSouldier✭✭✭✭JusticeSouldier wrote: »
Yeah, because having a spammable on a double-barred, killable pet is definitely homogenising Sorc with all the other classes that also have double barred, killable pets. But every mag class playing fire destro with either Pulse or Ele Weapon is not homogenisation.
homogenization is not only in same skill usage or skills completly similar with look and mechanics.
It's also about same set of tools, buffs, debufss for every class.
If every class can do the same as others can do, even with the pet, like spammable for every class, execute for every class, unblockable cc for every clas etc...
that's it.
even if look of that skills will be very different.Edited by JusticeSouldier on September 2, 2019 8:20PMall classes. pc platform, dissapointed.1 -
WildRaptorX✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just tried creating my first sorc, specifically a pet sorc.
Short story: the double bar ruined it and it restricts use of some awesome other abilities. Not cool.1 -
Saril_Durzam✭✭✭✭Saril_Durzam wrote: »Tormentor needs some work. FIrst of all, a plain damage buff (around 25% at least), and not such a conditional skill. Maybe just 8% increase, on any kind of % health? Actually, i´d go with another AOE range on it. I think there could be several options.
Personally, i would add a chain lightning skill. Some AOE damage that puts enemies off balance.
There's already plenty of AOE dmg in the sorc toolkit. More than any other class
- Scamp
- Steak
- Liquid Lighting
- Curse
- Crystal Blast
- Boundless/Hurricane
... as well as the good synergy with Lightning Staff heavies due to Lightning damage bonus. And lightning enchants give you all the off-balance up time you need anyway.
You know what the class is completely missing? A Spammable. That's what the Tormentor's special attack should be.
Maybe, but AOE right now isnt too powerful so i think it could get it and dont get the anger of the many antisorcs, while improving the skill. Futhermore, Sorc is precisely the king of AoEs so it would fit thematically.
As i said, it would be just simpler to get 10% extra damage for 15 seconds. It would be nice that the Tormentor would lifesteal that damage, considering that now pets have no heals and die in solo content. The lifesteal wouldnt affect group content as pets cant receive damage, but would help on solo content.
If devs would need Sorcs needed more healing, could add that lifestealing to its Sorc master aswell. It would be great not to have Critical Surge slotted on a petsorc, which needs every slot.0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭JusticeSouldier wrote: »JusticeSouldier wrote: »
Yeah, because having a spammable on a double-barred, killable pet is definitely homogenising Sorc with all the other classes that also have double barred, killable pets. But every mag class playing fire destro with either Pulse or Ele Weapon is not homogenisation.
homogenization is not only in same skill usage or skills completly similar with look and mechanics.
It's also about same set of tools, buffs, debufss for every class.
If every class can do the same as others can do, even with the pet, like spammable for every class, execute for every class, unblockable cc for every clas etc...
that's it.
even if look of that skills will be very different.
You're in the wrong game. Every class can do the same as the others. There's no role identity. Every class can tank, heal, dps. Every class can complement what is missing from their class skills already with Guild/Weapon/World skills. Sorcs can complement their lack of spammables with Pulse/Ele Weapon, MagDKs can complement their lack of ranged abilities with Entropy, Soultrap etc, every class can have unblockable CC with Turn Undead. The only real difference between classes is the thematic one, the design, look and feel of their skills and passives.
So at this point not having a class spammable is actually more build restrictive and homogenising than anything else. Because MagSorcs would have a spammable one way or another, since those are already available in the game. But not having one on a class skill means every Sorc has to play destro staff with Pulse/Ele Weapon.Edited by Maulkin on September 2, 2019 8:52PMEU | PC | AD0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Saril_Durzam wrote: »Maybe, but AOE right now isnt too powerful so i think it could get it and dont get the anger of the many antisorcs, while improving the skill. Futhermore, Sorc is precisely the king of AoEs so it would fit thematically.
The point is that MagSorc is already the king of AoEs both thematically and in fact, so it doesn't need more. It's like giving sand to a desert dweller. PetSorcs in both PvP and PvE would benefit far more from saving a slot on a spammable than having a 10th AoE on their kit.EU | PC | AD0 -
Aurie✭✭✭✭✭
✭Saril_Durzam wrote: »We need also some more stamina morphs. Could maybe stamina pets morphs? Clannfear should be one. Instead of the heal, maybe an AOE bleed, or maim?
Also, we just need pets scale with maximum resource, instead of max magicka. Oh, and SD should affect pets, hard to standarize skills if not.
No, leave my heal !!!!!!!
Especially since Matriarch was so savagely nerfed, a lot of Sorcs are using Unstable Clannfear to stay alive as well as some damage.
Edited by Aurie on September 2, 2019 9:18PM0 -
Saril_Durzam✭✭✭✭Saril_Durzam wrote: »We need also some more stamina morphs. Could maybe stamina pets morphs? Clannfear should be one. Instead of the heal, maybe an AOE bleed, or maim?
Also, we just need pets scale with maximum resource, instead of max magicka. Oh, and SD should affect pets, hard to standarize skills if not.
No, leave my heal !!!!!!!
Especially since Matriarch was so savagely nerfed, a lot of Sorcs are using Unstable Clannfear to stay alive as well as some damage.
Really? Scalp is still a fine source of damage... Two heals on two pets looks redundant to me.
What about improving a bit Matriarch and leave it as the Sorc healing pet?0 -
CambionDaemon✭✭✭AoE's are nowhere as good as they used to be, and definitely NO to a class spammable on a pet, I want pets removed not add to.
Dark Magic should be buffs/debuffs with heal's (group and self), change Mage's Wrath to a spammable using the animation from Overload, and change Overload to a large self centered AOE explosion, Then work on Stamina morphs of the entire skill set (all three lines), whilst giving Sorcerer's bonuses to wearing heavy armour (like they are supposed too). If they do all of that then the pets can stay.
Oh, and make streak/BoL omni-directional.0 -
Bobby_V_Rockit✭✭✭✭✭
✭On my way thru Sunspire last night, trying to get Lokke armor (dont know why, I only ever pug so synergies are rare af) I managed to get myself a full set of False God’s devotion (necklace, boots, pants, Lightning Staff and Resto Staff).
I’ve heard that resto backbar is a good idea for solo/maelstrom. But what resto skills should I put on? Keep in mind this is only for solo/maelstrom (yet to beat stage 5). Should I run regen and combat prayer along with the standard DPS abilities?0 -
JusticeSouldier✭✭✭✭Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »On my way thru Sunspire last night, trying to get Lokke armor (dont know why, I only ever pug so synergies are rare af) I managed to get myself a full set of False God’s devotion (necklace, boots, pants, Lightning Staff and Resto Staff).
I’ve heard that resto backbar is a good idea for solo/maelstrom. But what resto skills should I put on? Keep in mind this is only for solo/maelstrom (yet to beat stage 5). Should I run regen and combat prayer along with the standard DPS abilities?
it's bad idea because u loose the burst which u have with 2 destro.
U have 2 shields (very enouch to have sorc's own one only and Surge) - it's enouch for defense and healing.
Just learn the positioning, have a patience there and all will be fine.all classes. pc platform, dissapointed.0 -
Bobby_V_Rockit✭✭✭✭✭
✭JusticeSouldier wrote: »Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »On my way thru Sunspire last night, trying to get Lokke armor (dont know why, I only ever pug so synergies are rare af) I managed to get myself a full set of False God’s devotion (necklace, boots, pants, Lightning Staff and Resto Staff).
I’ve heard that resto backbar is a good idea for solo/maelstrom. But what resto skills should I put on? Keep in mind this is only for solo/maelstrom (yet to beat stage 5). Should I run regen and combat prayer along with the standard DPS abilities?
it's bad idea because u loose the burst which u have with 2 destro.
U have 2 shields (very enouch to have sorc's own one only and Surge) - it's enouch for defense and healing.
Just learn the positioning, have a patience there and all will be fine.
Understood, the issue being I only have the one destro however. S’all good, I just made resto bar my buff bar and tweaked Alcast’s one-bar maelstrom setup. Plus it solves the increasing problem of fake healers lol0 -
JusticeSouldier✭✭✭✭JusticeSouldier wrote: »JusticeSouldier wrote: »
Yeah, because having a spammable on a double-barred, killable pet is definitely homogenising Sorc with all the other classes that also have double barred, killable pets. But every mag class playing fire destro with either Pulse or Ele Weapon is not homogenisation.
homogenization is not only in same skill usage or skills completly similar with look and mechanics.
It's also about same set of tools, buffs, debufss for every class.
If every class can do the same as others can do, even with the pet, like spammable for every class, execute for every class, unblockable cc for every clas etc...
that's it.
even if look of that skills will be very different.
You're in the wrong game. Every class can do the same as the others. There's no role identity. Every class can tank, heal, dps. Every class can complement what is missing from their class skills already with Guild/Weapon/World skills. Sorcs can complement their lack of spammables with Pulse/Ele Weapon, MagDKs can complement their lack of ranged abilities with Entropy, Soultrap etc, every class can have unblockable CC with Turn Undead. The only real difference between classes is the thematic one, the design, look and feel of their skills and passives.
So at this point not having a class spammable is actually more build restrictive and homogenising than anything else. Because MagSorcs would have a spammable one way or another, since those are already available in the game. But not having one on a class skill means every Sorc has to play destro staff with Pulse/Ele Weapon.
Or u're in the wrong game.
There are no role identity, here are (or should be) class identity.
Sure every class can do each role in groups.
But, with different effectiveness because of strong and weak sides of each one. And it's very cool.
From one point of view - such differences create a limits for each class and many people focused on only one class for everything doesn't like this.
From another point - this difference is a part of uniquiness of each class - same as in a real life it creates aspace for creativity and variety.
Ask everyone working with creating something - if u have no technical task with some limits to work in - u're in deep trouble.
Because u don't know what your client want and result can be even extremly beautiful, but unusable thing.
Here I should say, these weak and strong sides of each class should be precisely counted and weighted for each class for general combat balance.
And second side is much more important for game to be interesting to play.
I don't feel magsorc should have own range spammable.
And ye, Tormentor is ugly big thing which very often hide a half of screen with their's wings and blocking NPCs.
Not sure I want it to be must to use and watch packs of them everywhere .all classes. pc platform, dissapointed.0 -
Saril_Durzam✭✭✭✭Now that Matriarch has been nerfed to the ground, we should talk about the issues which still hinders it (or Tormentor). Annoying visuals and nose, and LoS issues in PvP.
Visuals can be solved by changing the figure. Noises? Should be an option to turn off other players pets noises. LoS issues? Well, pets are way less common with nerfs so that shouldnt be an issue, but maybe do pets invisible and/or untargeteable? Or simply take them out PvP? Or just make them small enough so you can target over them?
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Starlock✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Pain Points Revisited (Patch https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/491204/xbox-one-patch-notes-v1-17-0-0-scalebreaker-update-23)
Player Background: I play primarily for overland PvE/questing and enjoy clearing world bosses by myself. I occasionally do 4-person dungeons and even more rarely, trials. I have little to no interest in any sort of PvP.
Character Background: I currently have one sorcerer and he is themed as a lightning mage and master wizard. He never uses pets because it doesn't fit his character, and in terms of build-speak he is magicka and a tank/dd hybrid.
This last patch brought with it a lot of changes, and while lightning mage is better off than I feared, there are some aspects that have been part of his character for a really long time that have shifted under the cumulative weight of changes. To articulate these as new pain points:- Never Enough Bar Space. It might be surprising to hear someone who doesn't use pets make this comment, but when you want to slot every single ability in the Storm Calling tree (because lightning mage) and a bunch of destruction staff abilities (because lightning mage) bar space is at a premium. Removing major sorcery made this problem worse because he no longer gets it from an ability that has had it since... well... forever?
- Survivability. This has become more challenging for my character over various patch cycles. Some of these changes were needed, but combined with the problem above it feels like it's gone a bit too far. I don't have room to slot both a shield and a skill to get myself major sorcery. Given how bad shields have gotten, that means the shield is just not on my bar anymore which is super weird considering he's also used that since... well... forever?
There are other pain points, but they are not, strictly speaking, class related as they pertain to changes made in other skill lines. I will briefly mention a major one, though, and that's the removal of any utility (aka, stun) from destructive clench lightning staves. This also hurts his survivability as stunned enemies can't deal damage to me, and he doesn't have room to slot streak as an alternative (plus it operates way differently).0 -
karekiz✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Saril_Durzam wrote: »We need also some more stamina morphs. Could maybe stamina pets morphs? Clannfear should be one. Instead of the heal, maybe an AOE bleed, or maim?
Also, we just need pets scale with maximum resource, instead of max magicka. Oh, and SD should affect pets, hard to standarize skills if not.
Honestly the tormentor should be the Stam DPS pet. Mag = AoE pet / Stam = ST DPS pet. It also needs a complete rework, using a skill above 50% then letting it sit there isn't very fun to wise.
Leave Clannfear for tank sorcs please that way each role has a pet:
Scamp = Mag DPS
Tormentor = Stam DPS
Matriarch = Healer
Clannfear = Tank
This way no role gets screwed out of the passive.0 -
Saril_Durzam✭✭✭✭Saril_Durzam wrote: »We need also some more stamina morphs. Could maybe stamina pets morphs? Clannfear should be one. Instead of the heal, maybe an AOE bleed, or maim?
Also, we just need pets scale with maximum resource, instead of max magicka. Oh, and SD should affect pets, hard to standarize skills if not.
Honestly the tormentor should be the Stam DPS pet. Mag = AoE pet / Stam = ST DPS pet. It also needs a complete rework, using a skill above 50% then letting it sit there isn't very fun to wise.
Leave Clannfear for tank sorcs please that way each role has a pet:
Scamp = Mag DPS
Tormentor = Stam DPS
Matriarch = Healer
Clannfear = Tank
This way no role gets screwed out of the passive.
True. But at the same time, you're killing the "petsorc" as an idea. You¡re playing with just a single pet which would take the fun of the zoosorc. Plus, stamina would never got healer pet and mag wouldnt get the tank.
The real pet composition should be one DPS pet (morph to stamina) and one utility, healing pet (morph to group healing and tank). Then both stamina and magicka would choose the aspect they wanted and both would have DPS pets.
The real issue would be: giving more tools to stamsorc which already does awesome DPS, would be weird. The good thing is to give class identity to stamsorc, but probably for stamsorcs pets would be a DPS loss.So they wouldnt get used...
I think the best solution would be pet damage scale with max resource.
Not an easy choice. Let´s see what comes with next patch.
Edited by Saril_Durzam on September 4, 2019 7:29AM0
