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[Class Rep] Sorcerer Feedback Thread

  • Idinuse
    Idinuse
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Maulkin wrote: »
    Maulkin wrote: »
    [
    You know what the class is completely missing? A Spammable. That's what the Tormentor's special attack should be.

    class homogenisation...

    Yeah, because having a spammable on a double-barred, killable pet is definitely homogenising Sorc with all the other classes that also have double barred, killable pets. But every mag class playing fire destro with either Pulse or Ele Weapon is not homogenisation.

    giphy.gif

    homogenization is not only in same skill usage or skills completly similar with look and mechanics.
    It's also about same set of tools, buffs, debufss for every class.
    If every class can do the same as others can do, even with the pet, like spammable for every class, execute for every class, unblockable cc for every clas etc...
    that's it.
    even if look of that skills will be very different.

    Yeah. People keep confusing Role homogenization with Class homogenization. There's nothing stopping a Role Diversity if Classes have equal types of buffs (especially on self) and debuffs to do Tank, DPS and Healer Roles. The Class Identity doesn't have to be tied to a Role. Even though Templars were the go to healers, that has since long been abandoned even though they certainly still are top healers, everyone now has viable self healing, (except Sorc unless using a Resto or sacrificing two slots to Matriarch's double slot, Surge/Entropy or Tristat Potions and still it isn't that "viable") and can do Healer Role quite good, and the Class badly needed to get on par with the rest of the game on DPS numbers.

    There is no need for a Class to be tied to a Role, this is where CP allocations, weapon passives (maybe new Role Passives on top of CP?) and sets should come in, not Class or even Race Passives IMO. This is where Diversity comes into play and uniqueness of Classes and Races should be something else than tied to the D&D Trinity only. We had that and it was fun, but as this is falling apart, Classes need to be compensated for loosing the incline to a specific Role with buffs and debuffs and balanced self healing/mitigation and damage output.

    This would let us spec for specific roles in PvE and have viable build diversites in PvP and BGs.

    It's either that or we need to go back to the D&D Trinity thinking. We can't have one ore more Classes being cannon fodder (PvP) or shunned bottom of the barrel (PvE) to the rest of the game, and having which ones be just that circulate on a quarterly-, half- or yearly basis...
    Edited by Idinuse on September 5, 2019 11:00AM
    Sed ut perspiciatis unde omnis iste natus error sit voluptatem accusantium dolorem que laudantium, totam rem aperiam, eaque ipsa quae ab illo inventore veritatis et quasi architecto beatae vitae dicta sunt explicabo. Nemo enim ipsam voluptatem quia voluptas sit aspernatur aut odit aut fugit, sed quia consequuntur magni dolores eos qui ratione voluptatem sequi nesciunt. Neque porro quisquam est, qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non numquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem. Ut enim ad minima veniam, quis nostrum exercitationem ullam corporis suscipit laboriosam, nisi ut aliquid ex ea commodi consequatur? Quis autem vel eum iure reprehenderit qui in ea voluptate velit esse quam nihil molestiae consequatur, vel illum qui dolorem eum fugiat quo voluptas nulla pariatur?
  • JusticeSouldier
    JusticeSouldier
    ✭✭✭
    Idinuse wrote: »
    Maulkin wrote: »
    Maulkin wrote: »
    [
    You know what the class is completely missing? A Spammable. That's what the Tormentor's special attack should be.

    class homogenisation...

    Yeah, because having a spammable on a double-barred, killable pet is definitely homogenising Sorc with all the other classes that also have double barred, killable pets. But every mag class playing fire destro with either Pulse or Ele Weapon is not homogenisation.

    giphy.gif

    homogenization is not only in same skill usage or skills completly similar with look and mechanics.
    It's also about same set of tools, buffs, debufss for every class.
    If every class can do the same as others can do, even with the pet, like spammable for every class, execute for every class, unblockable cc for every clas etc...
    that's it.
    even if look of that skills will be very different.

    Yeah. People keep confusing Role homogenization with Class homogenization. There's nothing stopping a Role Diversity if Classes have equal types of buffs (especially on self) and debuffs to do Tank, DPS and Healer Roles. The Class Identity doesn't have to be tied to a Role. Even though Templars were the go to healers, that has since long been abandoned even though they certainly still are top healers, everyone now has viable self healing, (except Sorc unless using a Resto or sacrificing two slots to Matriarch's double slot, Surge/Entropy or Tristat Potions and still it isn't that "viable") and can do Healer Role quite good, and the Class badly needed to get on par with the rest of the game on DPS numbers.

    There is no need for a Class to be tied to a Role, this is where CP allocations, weapon passives (maybe new Role Passives on top of CP?) and sets should come in, not Class or even Race Passives IMO. This is where Diversity comes into play and uniqueness of Classes and Races should be something else than tied to the D&D Trinity only. We had that and it was fun, but as this is falling apart, Classes need to be compensated for loosing the incline to a specific Role with buffs and debuffs and balanced self healing/mitigation and damage output.

    This would let us spec for specific roles in PvE and have viable build diversites in PvP and BGs.

    It's either that or we need to go back to the D&D Trinity thinking. We can't have one ore more Classes being cannon fodder (PvP) or shunned bottom of the barrel (PvE) to the rest of the game, and having which ones be just that circulate on a quarterly-, half- or yearly basis...

    I say about pvp part, nothing about pve roles when saying about homogenization.
    Pve roles are group only things must to do for special pve pre-programmed mechanics and situations.
    Insightfull, but exactly such things, based only on pve background tied to "roles", are the reason why classes identity so highly blurred now.
    Core of these things should be in pvp apply, than going to(adapted to) pve to have interesting gameplay

    Also, only very lazy people have no at least few characters on account for different roles in pve or different builds with different playstyle in pvp. Lvling is very fast thing in 2019.
    Game should not be slave of this...
    Edited by JusticeSouldier on September 5, 2019 5:25PM
  • Idinuse
    Idinuse
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Idinuse wrote: »
    Maulkin wrote: »
    Maulkin wrote: »
    [
    You know what the class is completely missing? A Spammable. That's what the Tormentor's special attack should be.

    class homogenisation...

    Yeah, because having a spammable on a double-barred, killable pet is definitely homogenising Sorc with all the other classes that also have double barred, killable pets. But every mag class playing fire destro with either Pulse or Ele Weapon is not homogenisation.

    giphy.gif

    homogenization is not only in same skill usage or skills completly similar with look and mechanics.
    It's also about same set of tools, buffs, debufss for every class.
    If every class can do the same as others can do, even with the pet, like spammable for every class, execute for every class, unblockable cc for every clas etc...
    that's it.
    even if look of that skills will be very different.

    Yeah. People keep confusing Role homogenization with Class homogenization. There's nothing stopping a Role Diversity if Classes have equal types of buffs (especially on self) and debuffs to do Tank, DPS and Healer Roles. The Class Identity doesn't have to be tied to a Role. Even though Templars were the go to healers, that has since long been abandoned even though they certainly still are top healers, everyone now has viable self healing, (except Sorc unless using a Resto or sacrificing two slots to Matriarch's double slot, Surge/Entropy or Tristat Potions and still it isn't that "viable") and can do Healer Role quite good, and the Class badly needed to get on par with the rest of the game on DPS numbers.

    There is no need for a Class to be tied to a Role, this is where CP allocations, weapon passives (maybe new Role Passives on top of CP?) and sets should come in, not Class or even Race Passives IMO. This is where Diversity comes into play and uniqueness of Classes and Races should be something else than tied to the D&D Trinity only. We had that and it was fun, but as this is falling apart, Classes need to be compensated for loosing the incline to a specific Role with buffs and debuffs and balanced self healing/mitigation and damage output.

    This would let us spec for specific roles in PvE and have viable build diversites in PvP and BGs.

    It's either that or we need to go back to the D&D Trinity thinking. We can't have one ore more Classes being cannon fodder (PvP) or shunned bottom of the barrel (PvE) to the rest of the game, and having which ones be just that circulate on a quarterly-, half- or yearly basis...

    I say about pvp part, nothing about pve roles when saying about homogenization.
    Pve roles are group only things must to do for special pve pre-programmed mechanics and situations.
    Insightfull, but exactly such things, based only on pve background tied to "roles", are the reason why classes identity so highly blurred now.
    Core of these things should be in pvp apply, than going to(adapted to) pve to have interesting gameplay

    Also, only very lazy people have no at least few characters on account for different roles in pve or different builds with different playstyle in pvp. Lvling is very fast thing in 2019.
    Game should not be slave of these people...

    Yes, I think you say something insightful. But it's not about laziness. It's not about having everyone roll a new character that happens to be the Meta BiS hysteria of the quarter or the year. By diversity but balance for all Classes, every one of your 16 characters should be fun to play. Not shoehorning you into the only viable way to play the game for the moment. This isn't something like LOL or Overwatch or what ever, that circulates OP and useless characters regularly. This is an Elder Scrolls MMORPG and as such every character should have a chance at being viable and not the dunce hat for a period imo.
    Edited by Idinuse on September 5, 2019 11:40AM
    Sed ut perspiciatis unde omnis iste natus error sit voluptatem accusantium dolorem que laudantium, totam rem aperiam, eaque ipsa quae ab illo inventore veritatis et quasi architecto beatae vitae dicta sunt explicabo. Nemo enim ipsam voluptatem quia voluptas sit aspernatur aut odit aut fugit, sed quia consequuntur magni dolores eos qui ratione voluptatem sequi nesciunt. Neque porro quisquam est, qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non numquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem. Ut enim ad minima veniam, quis nostrum exercitationem ullam corporis suscipit laboriosam, nisi ut aliquid ex ea commodi consequatur? Quis autem vel eum iure reprehenderit qui in ea voluptate velit esse quam nihil molestiae consequatur, vel illum qui dolorem eum fugiat quo voluptas nulla pariatur?
  • JusticeSouldier
    JusticeSouldier
    ✭✭✭
    Idinuse wrote: »
    Idinuse wrote: »
    Maulkin wrote: »
    Maulkin wrote: »
    [
    You know what the class is completely missing? A Spammable. That's what the Tormentor's special attack should be.

    class homogenisation...

    Yeah, because having a spammable on a double-barred, killable pet is definitely homogenising Sorc with all the other classes that also have double barred, killable pets. But every mag class playing fire destro with either Pulse or Ele Weapon is not homogenisation.

    giphy.gif

    homogenization is not only in same skill usage or skills completly similar with look and mechanics.
    It's also about same set of tools, buffs, debufss for every class.
    If every class can do the same as others can do, even with the pet, like spammable for every class, execute for every class, unblockable cc for every clas etc...
    that's it.
    even if look of that skills will be very different.

    Yeah. People keep confusing Role homogenization with Class homogenization. There's nothing stopping a Role Diversity if Classes have equal types of buffs (especially on self) and debuffs to do Tank, DPS and Healer Roles. The Class Identity doesn't have to be tied to a Role. Even though Templars were the go to healers, that has since long been abandoned even though they certainly still are top healers, everyone now has viable self healing, (except Sorc unless using a Resto or sacrificing two slots to Matriarch's double slot, Surge/Entropy or Tristat Potions and still it isn't that "viable") and can do Healer Role quite good, and the Class badly needed to get on par with the rest of the game on DPS numbers.

    There is no need for a Class to be tied to a Role, this is where CP allocations, weapon passives (maybe new Role Passives on top of CP?) and sets should come in, not Class or even Race Passives IMO. This is where Diversity comes into play and uniqueness of Classes and Races should be something else than tied to the D&D Trinity only. We had that and it was fun, but as this is falling apart, Classes need to be compensated for loosing the incline to a specific Role with buffs and debuffs and balanced self healing/mitigation and damage output.

    This would let us spec for specific roles in PvE and have viable build diversites in PvP and BGs.

    It's either that or we need to go back to the D&D Trinity thinking. We can't have one ore more Classes being cannon fodder (PvP) or shunned bottom of the barrel (PvE) to the rest of the game, and having which ones be just that circulate on a quarterly-, half- or yearly basis...

    I say about pvp part, nothing about pve roles when saying about homogenization.
    Pve roles are group only things must to do for special pve pre-programmed mechanics and situations.
    Insightfull, but exactly such things, based only on pve background tied to "roles", are the reason why classes identity so highly blurred now.
    Core of these things should be in pvp apply, than going to(adapted to) pve to have interesting gameplay

    Also, only very lazy people have no at least few characters on account for different roles in pve or different builds with different playstyle in pvp. Lvling is very fast thing in 2019.
    Game should not be slave of these people...

    Yes, I think you say something insightful. But it's not about laziness. It's not about having everyone roll a new character that happens to be the Meta BiS hysteria of the quarter or the year. By diversity but balance for all Classes, every one of your 16 characters should be fun to play. Not shoehorning you onto the only viable way to play the game for the moment.

    Sure not always about lazyness, sometimes it's no time tocreate another classes, or personal counter against some class specifics, or...extreme focusing on something one only. Like one player i know who play more than 5 years only on templars. Manaplars if to be correct. She want the only templar to be able do everything in eso and completly associate herself with templar... I don't want to say she have no right to do that, but if we start to dance around needs of such mind of thinking in eso.... it's already finish
    Edited by JusticeSouldier on September 5, 2019 12:00PM
  • Cernunnos55
    Cernunnos55
    ✭✭
    Stamina Sorcer is a favourite of a lot of people, however it has not been much catered for in class skills and passives. This is a shame, because it's not like it isn't lore-friendly - some of the most popular characters popping up through Elder Scrolls lore are "battlemage" types. Hell, that's even my favourite attribute combo in Legends. Suffice to say, I like Stamsorcs - however, I wish they were better represented. This would be done in a variety of ways:
    • Scrap one Storm Atronach morph. Introduce Air Atronach, which does physical damage. Have it spin and follow around a specific target doing AoE damage like the one at Ash Titan, doing roughly the same damage as Storm Atronach's lightning does. Have it apply some kind of debuff, such as extra damage taken for the duration or something, since Storm Atronach gets a synergy.
    • People get bored with having to fill up their weapon bars with weapon abilities. They are generic and provide no representation of the class being played. I would like to see some stamina-based or stamina-beneficial skills in the Sorcerer. Hurricane and Surge are nice, but highly-mobile sustained StamSorcs have to either Dizzyspam, Spin2Win or Snipespam to get anything done. Sometimes we'll change it up and apply some DoTs, but oh wait, they're also generic abilities... Soul Trap, Twin Slashes, Cleave, Poison Injection...

    I realise the initial thread is like really old, just wanted to write out ideas.
    Edited by Cernunnos55 on September 5, 2019 1:12PM
    Guild Master of The Pride of Daggerfall, D.C. loyalist and commander of the Cerglings.

    R’hana – Khajiit – StamBlade – Crafter/PvP
    Iranduril – Altmer – MagSorc – PvE DPS
    Sayelo Tomylilfren – Argonian – Hybrid Dragonknight – PvE Tank
    A Brexit Policy – Redguard – StamSorc – PvP
  • Saril_Durzam
    Saril_Durzam
    ✭✭✭✭
    I think it´s very difficult to compensate magicka and stamina morphs. I´d say that leave utility skills as magicka skills (meaning that they cost magicka), with two different morphs for two different utility effects, and then damage skills have two morphs, one for stamina and one for magicka, with special buffs to each includes on each morph.

    Let´s say you got Daedric Curse. Add 40% pets damage on tooltip. One morph scales off magicka and does Magic damage, the other scales off stamina and does Physical damage (the curse may make grow spikes on the target, for example). One morphed skill can do the damage twice, delayed, and the other morph can do AOE damage in just one delayed hit, more powerful than one of the other morphed skill, but less than the two hits of the other morphed skill.

    Get Mage´s Fury. One morph does Magic damage, other morph does Physical damage. One restores resource on kill, the other does AOE damage if target dies.

    Etc, etc.

    Ofc that would make magsorc much less powerful and stamsorc much more, and right now stamsorc is already dealing far more damage than magsorc. But i´m sure we could find a balance on all this.

  • Celestro
    Celestro
    ✭✭
    I don't think implementing stamina morph in itself will really change the high damage that Stamsorcs dish out. That's just an inherent aspect that their 'useful' active skills (one being Bound Armaments) and passive abilities give them. Like even if you switch out Rapid Strikes, the current popular spammable for basically all stam really, with say like a stamina morph of Crystal Shard and the latter does about the same damage, it would be the same difference for the most part. They'd just bring more utility into a group that way.

    While I am definitely looking forward to Stamsorcs being looked at, I'm a little iffy on what abilities would fit a stam morph too honestly. Besides the Air Atronach idea to replace the "AoE" Storm Atronach, the only other one I could almost see would be Crystal Shard as mentioned and even that's questionable somewhat. Maybe redo any of the other Dark Magic abilities that aren't used really.

    Despite the stigma, I wouldn't really mind a stam pet but I'd honestly want it to be something new altogether like a conjured sword from other TES games that'd work a little like the Morkuldkin set but way less sucky (side note: should 'buff' that set too lol).
    Edited by Celestro on September 7, 2019 2:51AM
  • Saril_Durzam
    Saril_Durzam
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    I agree that what stamsorc needs is group utility, not damage.
  • Chilly-McFreeze
    Chilly-McFreeze
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    ✭✭
    I agree that what stamsorc needs is group utility, not damage.

    If the stam morphs lack far behind any generic skill in damage, nobody will use them.
    If the stam morphs lack far behind any generic skill in utility, nobody will use them either.

    And vice versa.

    The goal was never to ask for a plain numerical dps buff for stam sorcs, but for class identity. But nobody will slot a skill and deliberately gimp himself just because it's in the class tree.

    That being said, you could add 3k dps and trial groups would still ask for Necros just because of their ultimate's debuff.
  • CambionDaemon
    CambionDaemon
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    In Elder Scrolls lore there are no Magicka or Stamina Sorcerer's, they are just Sorcerer's wearing heavy armour wielding one handed swords and throwing around powerful destructive magic, that is what a Sorcerer is and that is what they should do with the class.

    The problem with this game is the insistence of choosing between Mag/Stam, Magicka players don't want to be second place to Stamina (and vica versa), just look at Sorcerer's and Nightblades each one has bitched on the forums about the other for so long that they have neutered both classes in to boring hell. This needs to stop, as a Sorcerer I do not want dots, I want powerful hitting spells that do different types of damage (elemental/magic/physical).

    The entire class needs to be completely remade from the ground (which they will never do) just like the other four original classes, not this changing one skill here or there decision making. Then there can be parity between Mag/Stam Sorcerers until then there will always be issues.
  • Saril_Durzam
    Saril_Durzam
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    To me, Sorcerers should be summoners in the tradition of Elder Scrolls, bringing daedras and put them into weapons and armor; and also controlling natures energies: lightning, fire, frost...

    In part, this has been done. I think it could be improved though: to me the magicka sorcerers should be the ones controlling nature´s powers and stamina sorcerers should be the invokers of daedra into their weapons and armors.

    Magicka sorcerers: fire (DDs and Dots), lightning (DDs and stuns), frost (debuffs).
    Stamina sorcerers: summonings (pets), deadric weapons (line of weapon-like skills). daedric armor (buffs).

    One line for each thing, not magicka and stamina morphs: the morphs could make just two variants of the skill. Just put all the eggs in the basket. Leave third skill line to daedra summoning and make morph variants (magicka and stamina) If you prefer so.

    Anyways, that´s my idea and it wont taken in account so let´s leave it there.
  • Saril_Durzam
    Saril_Durzam
    ✭✭✭✭
    I agree that what stamsorc needs is group utility, not damage.

    If the stam morphs lack far behind any generic skill in damage, nobody will use them.
    If the stam morphs lack far behind any generic skill in utility, nobody will use them either.

    And vice versa.

    The goal was never to ask for a plain numerical dps buff for stam sorcs, but for class identity. But nobody will slot a skill and deliberately gimp himself just because it's in the class tree.

    That being said, you could add 3k dps and trial groups would still ask for Necros just because of their ultimate's debuff.

    You can buff a damage skill by adding it a debuff or buff, without touching it´s DPS.
  • Celestro
    Celestro
    ✭✭
    Realistically, it's somewhat irrelevant what additional damage could come out of changing the sorcerer skills around as far as the topic of class identity goes. People can bring all the stamcros into trials that they want ultimately, that doesn't negate that stamsorcs, and by extension a lot of others classes, could have some adjustments made to iron out their unique characteristics they bring to the table and overall playstyles so they actually feel like they're playing x class instead of every other class or even an inferior version of others. The meta doesn't and shouldn't matter when it comes to something like this.
    Edited by Celestro on September 7, 2019 7:36PM
  • Katahdin
    Katahdin
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    ✭✭✭
    Sorcs are definitely not weak in the slightest. So tired of people make this crap up.

    Just saw one jumping fool sorc take out 5 people solo in IC. These were not noobs either.
    He just jumped around and healed from 25% to 100% 3 or 4 times while we pounded on him.
    Then he just one-two shot everyone. My character is at 26.7 K health, 21K phys and 26K spell resist and dead in 2 shots.

    Yea they are weak alright......Horse Hockey
    Sorc is NOT WEAK and do NOT need more buffs.
    This kind of crap has to be nerfed. NO class. spec, build should be able to do that.

    .
    Edited by Katahdin on September 9, 2019 12:37AM
    Beta tester November 2013
  • JusticeSouldier
    JusticeSouldier
    ✭✭✭
    Katahdin wrote: »
    Sorcs are definitely not weak in the slightest. So tired of people make this crap up.

    Just saw one jumping fool sorc take out 5 people solo in IC. These were not noobs either.
    He just jumped around and healed from 25% to 100% 3 or 4 times while we pounded on him.
    Then he just one-two shot everyone. My character is at 26.7 K health, 21K phys and 26K spell resist and dead in 2 shots.

    Yea they are weak alright......Horse Hockey
    Sorc is NOT WEAK and do NOT need more buffs.
    This kind of crap has to be nerfed. NO class. spec, build should be able to do that.

    .

    it was not a class, but player's skill advantage.
    and huge one because stamsorc (i guess it was stamsorc because u wrote about jumping and healing) is one of the weakest things in game now
  • Lord-Otto
    Lord-Otto
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    ✭✭
    Katahdin wrote: »
    Sorcs are definitely not weak in the slightest. So tired of people make this crap up.

    Just saw one jumping fool sorc take out 5 people solo in IC. These were not noobs either.
    He just jumped around and healed from 25% to 100% 3 or 4 times while we pounded on him.
    Then he just one-two shot everyone. My character is at 26.7 K health, 21K phys and 26K spell resist and dead in 2 shots.

    Yea they are weak alright......Horse Hockey
    Sorc is NOT WEAK and do NOT need more buffs.
    This kind of crap has to be nerfed. NO class. spec, build should be able to do that.

    .

    It would help analyzing if you mentioned what heals he used and what offensive "two-shot" skills.
  • Katahdin
    Katahdin
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Yea it takes sooooo much skill to jump around in a circle like an idiot.

    I think it was frags or the other morph, not sure I didnt look at the death recap unfortunately (probably should have)
    It was a projectile, that knocked people down which sounds like frags then something else

    It wasnt vigor he was using cause I know what that looks like.
    Just stopped jumping at some point and healed from 25% to full in like 2 seconds while taking no damage
    (IIRC theres an armor that does that? so might not be class specific actually)

    Whatever it is its a cheese build and shouldnt be happening (on any class).
    No build should be able to tank damage, heal for days and put out 20-30K damage in 2 hits.
    Beta tester November 2013
  • Tolino
    Tolino
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    Katahdin wrote: »
    Yea it takes sooooo much skill to jump around in a circle like an idiot.

    I think it was frags or the other morph, not sure I didnt look at the death recap unfortunately (probably should have)
    It was a projectile, that knocked people down which sounds like frags then something else

    It wasnt vigor he was using cause I know what that looks like.
    Just stopped jumping at some point and healed from 25% to full in like 2 seconds while taking no damage
    (IIRC theres an armor that does that? so might not be class specific actually)

    Whatever it is its a cheese build and shouldnt be happening (on any class).
    No build should be able to tank damage, heal for days and put out 20-30K damage in 2 hits.

    This is possible with any class if the opponent (you) does not know how to PvP
    Wer nichts weiß und weiß, dass er nichts weiß, weiß mehr als der, der nichts weiß und nicht weiß, dass er nichts weiß.

    Magicka Zauberer: Toljno
    Magicka Hüter: Wa-Uller

  • Lord-Otto
    Lord-Otto
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    ✭✭
    Katahdin wrote: »
    Yea it takes sooooo much skill to jump around in a circle like an idiot.

    I think it was frags or the other morph, not sure I didnt look at the death recap unfortunately (probably should have)
    It was a projectile, that knocked people down which sounds like frags then something else

    It wasnt vigor he was using cause I know what that looks like.
    Just stopped jumping at some point and healed from 25% to full in like 2 seconds while taking no damage
    (IIRC theres an armor that does that? so might not be class specific actually)

    Whatever it is its a cheese build and shouldnt be happening (on any class).
    No build should be able to tank damage, heal for days and put out 20-30K damage in 2 hits.

    Frags don't stun anymore. It must have been something else. They are a purple projectile, you seen that?
    Destructive Clench can knock down. A fiery or lightning projectile from the staff, perhaps?
    Or did you see three little purple crystals above your guys' heads coming down, making them kneel? That would be Rune Cage.

    If he had HoTs going, he could easily heal to full. Anyone can do it, two seconds are actually a long time. I'm guessing Rapid Regen was in play for one. Animation is raising the staff into the air and a yellow, slightly orange-ish beam being shot to a player (the caster). Affected player then has a slight yellow glow.
    Dark Conversion can be used as a burst heal, it's not too bad. Sorc pretty much waves his hand in the air, three small purple crystals appear around his feet and shot purple mist or smoke to him.
    With three ticks of Rapid Regen and one Conversion cast in two seconds, we're looking at about 15k healing. Not unreasonable. Without pets, sorcs should have about 25k health these days. Remember, this isn't unique to sorcs. Any class can do that if they build for it.

    Lastly, since it is Imperial City: Did you notice a huge purple glow on that sorc? Like, not for using skills, but permanently and quite noticeably?
  • Major_Lag
    Major_Lag
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    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    Dark Conversion can be used as a burst heal, it's not too bad.
    Quite decent actually (in PvP that is), especially all that stamina return :)
    On a non-petsorc it's your go-to burst heal.
    Katahdin wrote: »
    healed from 25% to full in like 2 seconds while taking no damage
    If you are using the default basegame UI (no addons), then what you don't see is enemy shield strength.
    A shielded enemy indeed "appears" to be taking no damage, and even healing while taking damage.
    This is perfectly normal, but (by default) the healthbar doesn't show that, so on the surface it looks like cheating/exploiting.
  • Katahdin
    Katahdin
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    Tolino wrote: »
    Katahdin wrote: »
    Yea it takes sooooo much skill to jump around in a circle like an idiot.

    I think it was frags or the other morph, not sure I didnt look at the death recap unfortunately (probably should have)
    It was a projectile, that knocked people down which sounds like frags then something else

    It wasnt vigor he was using cause I know what that looks like.
    Just stopped jumping at some point and healed from 25% to full in like 2 seconds while taking no damage
    (IIRC theres an armor that does that? so might not be class specific actually)

    Whatever it is its a cheese build and shouldnt be happening (on any class).
    No build should be able to tank damage, heal for days and put out 20-30K damage in 2 hits.

    This is possible with any class if the opponent (you) does not know how to PvP

    6 impen pieces, 26 k health, 21 k phys, resists, 26 k spell resists, alliance rank 33, former emperor.

    Yea clearly I never been in pvp before....

    Beta tester November 2013
  • Katahdin
    Katahdin
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    Major_Lag wrote: »
    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    Dark Conversion can be used as a burst heal, it's not too bad.
    Quite decent actually (in PvP that is), especially all that stamina return :)
    On a non-petsorc it's your go-to burst heal.
    Katahdin wrote: »
    healed from 25% to full in like 2 seconds while taking no damage
    If you are using the default basegame UI (no addons), then what you don't see is enemy shield strength.
    A shielded enemy indeed "appears" to be taking no damage, and even healing while taking damage.
    This is perfectly normal, but (by default) the healthbar doesn't show that, so on the surface it looks like cheating/exploiting.

    I'm familiar with shields. Did not hear the typical sounds when your hitting a shielded player. I was also wearing spriggins for the penetration. Over 3.6K weapon damage unbuffed.

    I'm not saying the player was cheating/exploiting.

    I am saying that no one should be able to withstand that kind of damage, heal for days and do that kind of damage all at once. There needs to be a trade off somewhere.

    I did see the 3 crystals around his feet (easy to see when they are in the air all the time). I dont play a sorc enough to remember the skill names atm.
    Edited by Katahdin on September 9, 2019 2:57PM
    Beta tester November 2013
  • Cernunnos55
    Cernunnos55
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    Tolino wrote: »
    Katahdin wrote: »
    Yea it takes sooooo much skill to jump around in a circle like an idiot.

    I think it was frags or the other morph, not sure I didnt look at the death recap unfortunately (probably should have)
    It was a projectile, that knocked people down which sounds like frags then something else

    It wasnt vigor he was using cause I know what that looks like.
    Just stopped jumping at some point and healed from 25% to full in like 2 seconds while taking no damage
    (IIRC theres an armor that does that? so might not be class specific actually)

    Whatever it is its a cheese build and shouldnt be happening (on any class).
    No build should be able to tank damage, heal for days and put out 20-30K damage in 2 hits.

    This is possible with any class if the opponent (you) does not know how to PvP

    The fact that he's asking these questions at all is indicative that he has at least some experience. Something has occurred that is outwith his usual realm of experience, and that is odd, which is why it deserves the question. If he was not experienced, he would pass it off as "something I don't know yet" and move on.

    Regarding the actual question:

    The other morph of Crystal Frags is Crystal Blast. This does indeed knock you down, and hits hard still, although doesn't have the proc bonus of Frags. There is a plethora of things that could allow the enemy to heal in that way. Resto staff ult is what comes to mind. Pet heals are pretty strong. Healing Ward would be hefty at that point of health. Troll Kind, Rapid Regen, Earthgore, loads of ***. I wouldn't say that this kind of thing shouldn't be on any build though - everything said either has a cooldown or is resource reliant. If folk are being annoying I just pressure them - they can heal and heal and heal, until they can't. And then they die.
    Guild Master of The Pride of Daggerfall, D.C. loyalist and commander of the Cerglings.

    R’hana – Khajiit – StamBlade – Crafter/PvP
    Iranduril – Altmer – MagSorc – PvE DPS
    Sayelo Tomylilfren – Argonian – Hybrid Dragonknight – PvE Tank
    A Brexit Policy – Redguard – StamSorc – PvP
  • Katahdin
    Katahdin
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    Tolino wrote: »
    Katahdin wrote: »
    Yea it takes sooooo much skill to jump around in a circle like an idiot.

    I think it was frags or the other morph, not sure I didnt look at the death recap unfortunately (probably should have)
    It was a projectile, that knocked people down which sounds like frags then something else

    It wasnt vigor he was using cause I know what that looks like.
    Just stopped jumping at some point and healed from 25% to full in like 2 seconds while taking no damage
    (IIRC theres an armor that does that? so might not be class specific actually)

    Whatever it is its a cheese build and shouldnt be happening (on any class).
    No build should be able to tank damage, heal for days and put out 20-30K damage in 2 hits.

    This is possible with any class if the opponent (you) does not know how to PvP

    The fact that he's asking these questions at all is indicative that he has at least some experience. Something has occurred that is outwith his usual realm of experience, and that is odd, which is why it deserves the question. If he was not experienced, he would pass it off as "something I don't know yet" and move on.

    Regarding the actual question:

    The other morph of Crystal Frags is Crystal Blast. This does indeed knock you down, and hits hard still, although doesn't have the proc bonus of Frags. There is a plethora of things that could allow the enemy to heal in that way. Resto staff ult is what comes to mind. Pet heals are pretty strong. Healing Ward would be hefty at that point of health. Troll Kind, Rapid Regen, Earthgore, loads of ***. I wouldn't say that this kind of thing shouldn't be on any build though - everything said either has a cooldown or is resource reliant. If folk are being annoying I just pressure them - they can heal and heal and heal, until they can't. And then they die.

    You're right in that I do not understand these builds that allow for all the things at once (great damage mitigation, tons of healing and high damage).

    I come across them here and there but they aren't the norm.

    I find them frustrating deal with and just want to be able to kill them...lol
    Beta tester November 2013
  • Major_Lag
    Major_Lag
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    Katahdin wrote: »
    You're right in that I do not understand these builds that allow for all the things at once (great damage mitigation, tons of healing and high damage).
    Don't forget about the infinite sustain, too.

    I see these kinds of builds a lot (PC-EU) - actually it's only just a small handful of players, but they stand out disproportionately because of their unkillable-ness.

    Mostly I see these guys farming resources, they stay out in the open to lure people into attacking them, then they run into the tower when a larger group shows up to wipe them.
  • Cernunnos55
    Cernunnos55
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    They are far from unkillable. They operate on tactics that are just as susceptible to being countered as anything else. It's not the build, it's the player. Just gotta practise.
    Guild Master of The Pride of Daggerfall, D.C. loyalist and commander of the Cerglings.

    R’hana – Khajiit – StamBlade – Crafter/PvP
    Iranduril – Altmer – MagSorc – PvE DPS
    Sayelo Tomylilfren – Argonian – Hybrid Dragonknight – PvE Tank
    A Brexit Policy – Redguard – StamSorc – PvP
  • PhoenixGrey
    PhoenixGrey
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    Katahdin wrote: »
    Sorcs are definitely not weak in the slightest. So tired of people make this crap up.

    Just saw one jumping fool sorc take out 5 people solo in IC. These were not noobs either.
    He just jumped around and healed from 25% to 100% 3 or 4 times while we pounded on him.
    Then he just one-two shot everyone. My character is at 26.7 K health, 21K phys and 26K spell resist and dead in 2 shots.

    Yea they are weak alright......Horse Hockey
    Sorc is NOT WEAK and do NOT need more buffs.
    This kind of crap has to be nerfed. NO class. spec, build should be able to do that.

    .

    So you got 1vx'ed along with 5 other zerglings . Probably try to not zerg and try to actually PVP.

    Mag sorc is the easiest spec to kill this patch.
    DC Sorc: Fading Phoenix
    AD Warden: Grey Phoenix
  • JusticeSouldier
    JusticeSouldier
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    Katahdin wrote: »
    Sorcs are definitely not weak in the slightest. So tired of people make this crap up.

    Just saw one jumping fool sorc take out 5 people solo in IC. These were not noobs either.
    He just jumped around and healed from 25% to 100% 3 or 4 times while we pounded on him.
    Then he just one-two shot everyone. My character is at 26.7 K health, 21K phys and 26K spell resist and dead in 2 shots.

    Yea they are weak alright......Horse Hockey
    Sorc is NOT WEAK and do NOT need more buffs.
    This kind of crap has to be nerfed. NO class. spec, build should be able to do that.

    .

    So you got 1vx'ed along with 5 other zerglings . Probably try to not zerg and try to actually PVP.

    Mag sorc is the easiest spec to kill this patch.

    stam yes, mag tanky af.
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