[Class Rep] Sorcerer Feedback Thread

Lord-Otto

The real problem is, as always, that ZOS have no clue what to do with that skill. You can't make it OP, but what incentive is there to use it over a good ultimate? Just another skill sacrificed on the chopping block for streamlining the game and its skills, with no time or will to actually re-work it into something useful. Just forget about it, it's not worth mourning over it.

Major_Lag

FFS @ZOS... still no Major Sorcery on Crit Surge

Pdoherty4637_ESO wrote: »

The nerfs to OL heavy in 5.1.7, while admittedly a bit too heavy handed, were honestly deserved. The skill was undoubtedly over-performing under those circumstances.

Ok, now I've heard everything... you mean the skill was "overperforming" on a build that was ENTIRELY specced into using only ONE skill, while being completely useless outside of its single niche use?

A PvP Overload Sorc was the ultimate glasscannon build. Essentialy zero survivability outside of a group.
In a 1v1 situation, the OLing sorc could only ever hope to kill a complete potato, because no halfway competent player would die to that.

Logically, we should nerf bombblades next, because Proximity Detonation is also "overperforming" badly on a build which is entirely specced for bombing... who would've thought?

Delparis

Don't you think ZoS should remove shield stacking in favor of 1 full shield (shield are no longer affected by battle spirit).

Major_Lag

Delparis wrote: »

Don't you think ZoS should remove shield stacking in favor of 1 full shield (shield are no longer affected by battle spirit).

Actually, the very first thing that should have been done, is that the basegame UI should display shield health on enemies.
This change alone would instantly silence a lot of those "waaaaah they are taking no damage at all, nerf sorc" crybabies.

With the recent cost increases and sustain nerfs, shield stacking is not as viable as it used to be, anyway.

Also, removing shieldstacking completely would partially negate the group utility of shields which can be applied on multiple targets.
It would be a lot more sane to only allow one self applied shield to be active, and let shields applied to you by allies stack - as they do currently.

Derra

Major_Lag wrote: »

Delparis wrote: »

Don't you think ZoS should remove shield stacking in favor of 1 full shield (shield are no longer affected by battle spirit).

Actually, the very first thing that should have been done, is that the basegame UI should display shield health on enemies.
This change alone would instantly silence a lot of those "waaaaah they are taking no damage at all, nerf sorc" crybabies.

With the recent cost increases and sustain nerfs, shield stacking is not as viable as it used to be, anyway.

Also, removing shieldstacking completely would partially negate the group utility of shields which can be applied on multiple targets.
It would be a lot more sane to only allow one self applied shield to be active, and let shields applied to you by allies stack - as they do currently.

Even that is problematic due to how many small CP/passive/glyph or item related shields are in play.

Annulment + morphs simply should have not been stackable with conjure ward + morphs.

Not anymore however - stacking shields is the only way to make them somewhat usable cost wise this patch bc it´s the only way to guarantee using full value without being too vulnerable.

Major_Lag

Ok, now, I haven't yet taken my magsorc into PvP since Scalebreaker (and hardly intend to, for the time being) - but hasn't the magicka meta now shifted away from shields and toward radiating/rapid regen (plus class heals of course)?

Comparing the numbers alone (looking at tooltips in UESP build editor), even radiating regen considerably outperforms any (single) shield that is realistically possible, while having much lower cost.

When defiles (or heal absorption) come into play, the difference is smaller, but radiating regen still looks favorable: it's much cheaper AND has good group utility, whereas a personal shield is "selfish" and much more expensive.

Shantu

I remember the not-so-distant, pre-nerf hammer days when playing my MagSorc was actually fun. Hell, I can remember when the whole game used to be fun.

Praise the dev gods in their infinite nerf wisdom

JusticeSouldier

Shantu wrote: »

I remember the not-so-distant, pre-nerf hammer days when playing my MagSorc was actually fun. Hell, I can remember when the whole game used to be fun.

Praise the dev gods in their infinite nerf wisdom

dude, https://www.twitch.tv/malcolmy/videos
this guy can show u what is magsorc.
that fact sorc can't abuse overpowered before pets and overload before nerf them, doesn't mena class is "not fun".
here a very good example, I saw him in Cyro, he's really master in this not matter in what patch

Ozazz

they literally have gutted this class into the ground as well as medium armor stamblade, the game is no longer fun to me and I refuse to enlist in 10/20 man's to play this game and regardless if i did this game wouldn't run optimally nor function!

Ozazz

lol this guy takes the best sorc in game to try to promote his perspective, yeah dude! one sorcerer is the entire community! I talk to malcolm a good bit and im sure a few more patches down the road he might not be here, if the game keeps going the direction it's going! That's the case with any good streamer. they get burned out and their fighting an up hill battle against zos trying to be innovative and eventually get's old af and worthless when the dev's dont care about solo play.

JusticeSouldier

Ozazz wrote: »

lol this guy takes the best sorc in game to try to promote his perspective, yeah dude! one sorcerer is the entire community! I talk to malcolm a good bit and im sure a few more patches down the road he might not be here, if the game keeps going the direction it's going! That's the case with any good streamer. they get burned out and their fighting an up hill battle against zos trying to be innovative and eventually get's old af and worthless when the dev's dont care about solo play.

lol is that u don't understand what i "promote".
if u going to think that nerf to pets and overload (which was broken strong after making it not interraptable) means "sorc is not fun" as that guy said, than videos of malcolm should show u that it touches only one style of playing as magsorc.

And if u ask me what i'm thinking about the road eso moved with this patch, than i can say that i also will stop play eso if changes will be same awfull as ~6 things Zos "improved" in Scalebreaker.
And I'm sure many many others can answer the same.

But, than we return to magsorc in this patch and...dude, magsorc feels good if isn't bounded to pets and overload only.

Saril_Durzam

JusticeSouldier wrote: »

Shantu wrote: »

I remember the not-so-distant, pre-nerf hammer days when playing my MagSorc was actually fun. Hell, I can remember when the whole game used to be fun.

Praise the dev gods in their infinite nerf wisdom

dude, https://www.twitch.tv/malcolmy/videos
this guy can show u what is magsorc.
that fact sorc can't abuse overpowered before pets and overload before nerf them, doesn't mena class is "not fun".
here a very good example, I saw him in Cyro, he's really master in this not matter in what patch

Great players can make any class/spec to look good. Most of the players arent that way, though.

JusticeSouldier

Ozazz wrote: »

they literally have gutted this class into the ground as well as medium armor stamblade

hah, seems u didn't tryed to play as stamsorc in medium(and heavy not much better to be honest) this patch:)
nerf of stamblades is nothing in compare how it feels when 4-8 ranged dots applyed to u from everywhere at the same time without any option for u to somehow counter this...literally, Devs simply ignoread predictable holes in combat design

JusticeSouldier

Saril_Durzam wrote: »

JusticeSouldier wrote: »

Shantu wrote: »

I remember the not-so-distant, pre-nerf hammer days when playing my MagSorc was actually fun. Hell, I can remember when the whole game used to be fun.

Praise the dev gods in their infinite nerf wisdom

dude, https://www.twitch.tv/malcolmy/videos
this guy can show u what is magsorc.
that fact sorc can't abuse overpowered before pets and overload before nerf them, doesn't mena class is "not fun".
here a very good example, I saw him in Cyro, he's really master in this not matter in what patch

Great players can make any class/spec to look good. Most of the players arent that way, though.

mate, what is "great"? Malcolm skilled yes, but it's not rocket science here sorry, he's experienced, smart guy with a good latency and much practice. he shows how magsorc feels now. Please, hear what i said, nerfed pets and overload didn't done magsorc "bad".

maxjapank

JusticeSouldier wrote: »

if u going to think that nerf to pets and overload (which was broken strong after making it not interraptable)

I don't know how "being not interruptable" made it broken strong. In my experience, you still got stunned or knocked back. And being a channel, it was easily avoidable by players who would move to the left or right or even through me.

Of course, I didn't want the skill nerfed at all. It was fun. But I would've accepted a smaller dmg nerf. But 25% is really too much. and the range just makes it poo now.

Saril_Durzam

JusticeSouldier wrote: »

Saril_Durzam wrote: »

JusticeSouldier wrote: »

Shantu wrote: »

I remember the not-so-distant, pre-nerf hammer days when playing my MagSorc was actually fun. Hell, I can remember when the whole game used to be fun.

Praise the dev gods in their infinite nerf wisdom

dude, https://www.twitch.tv/malcolmy/videos
this guy can show u what is magsorc.
that fact sorc can't abuse overpowered before pets and overload before nerf them, doesn't mena class is "not fun".
here a very good example, I saw him in Cyro, he's really master in this not matter in what patch

Great players can make any class/spec to look good. Most of the players arent that way, though.

mate, what is "great"? Malcolm skilled yes, but it's not rocket science here sorry, he's experienced, smart guy with a good latency and much practice. he shows how magsorc feels now. Please, hear what i said, nerfed pets and overload didn't done magsorc "bad".

I agree on that. It´s just not overload (no sorc played it before Elsweyr) nor pets. It´s also AOE which was very important to Sorcs till now. Its lack of identity as more and more general skills are introduced on rotations. It´s less DPS than most if not all stam classes and same survability (was superior before, now it´s not).

There is a change and for some players its for the worse, and it´s a feeling what causes players to be unhappy. Is magsorc "bad"? Humm not. Not bad. In Pvp actually there is lot of potential. Pve wise Sorc is now closer to bottom classes than upper ones. Sorcerer players are a big mass of players and we their frustration is understandable.

Maulkin

Personally, in BGs at least, I feel MagSorc is in a pretty good spot strength wise.

Obviously I want the Streak and Shield bugs fixed, because they are very very detrimental to the class play, but beyond that I think this patch is good for the class. I like how the class can kite better with Streak now, but can spam less shields. I like how Pulse and Ele Weapon are better spammables than Masterreach now. I like how there's less ranged CC in general, or less efficient at least.

Now it would be really nice if Crit Surge gave Major Sorcery, like others are saying, but with Entropy and Rapid Regen so strong this patch it's not really necessary for PvP. Definitely for solo PvE though, like Maelstrom.

My only gripes (bug aside) are with other, non-Sorc skills. Like the unnecessary buffing of Soul Splitting trap which reinforces an already very strong ranged DoT meta. And the constant root you get from the Templar bubble, the one ranged CC that is very triggering in this update.

Major_Lag

Maulkin wrote: »

My only gripes (bug aside) are with other, non-Sorc skills. Like the unnecessary buffing of Soul Splitting trap which reinforces an already very strong ranged DoT meta.

Which is why my magsorc is now taking a well-deserved, long break - and I've rolled a magNB instead... with the intent to be a major PITA in group/largescale PvP by applying as many DoTs and debuffs at maximum range as possible and immediately cloaking away
If that fails for whatever reason, there's always the option of respeccing my NB to a bomber - which also looks very attractive now, with Prox Deto being uncapped.

maxjapank wrote: »

Of course, I didn't want the skill nerfed at all. It was fun. But I would've accepted a smaller dmg nerf. But 25% is really too much. and the range just makes it poo now.

Overload now properly interacts with Off Balance, so even with the 25% nerf it's still even stronger actually, as long as the target(s) are first put off balance - which a Sorc can accomplish with decent reliability.
But the nerfed range is indeed garbage.

mateosalvaje

Sorcerers need Sorcery in their tool kit. It's common sense. Having Major Sorcery added to the Surge base ability and its morphs would be ideal, but AT LEAST to Critical Surge please. As a 90% solo player, it's almost essential. Maybe if I post this enough times it will happen? Sorry if anyone gets annoyed in the process 😬

Celestro

Plenty of others already have and the devs will "supposedly" address adding Sorcery in other playstyles, which is almost a little too vague for my liking, but I'd say go for it. The more the merrier and all that noise.

pdblake

pdblake wrote: »

Oh yeah, and why is my Clannfear (since last update) suddenly so squishy? It dies an awful lot more than it did before the update. Did ZOS mess up the resistances like they did last time?

This seems to have been fixed in the last patch, or maybe I just L2P, or my Clannfear did lol.

Gabe42

mateosalvaje wrote: »

Sorcerers need Sorcery in their tool kit. It's common sense. Having Major Sorcery added to the Surge base ability and its morphs would be ideal, but AT LEAST to Critical Surge please. As a 90% solo player, it's almost essential. Maybe if I post this enough times it will happen? Sorry if anyone gets annoyed in the process 😬

I totally agree! It doesn't seem right for the class not to have it and seems unnecessarily annoying to have to rely on entropy for it.

Aurie

mateosalvaje wrote: »

Sorcerers need Sorcery in their tool kit. It's common sense. Having Major Sorcery added to the Surge base ability and its morphs would be ideal, but AT LEAST to Critical Surge please. As a 90% solo player, it's almost essential. Maybe if I post this enough times it will happen? Sorry if anyone gets annoyed in the process 😬

Absolutely 1000% this.

And no one who knows that a Sorcerer without Sorcery is completely illogical will get annoyed.

We very much need to keep this on @ZOS radar, otherwise they may just brush it under the carpet.

Major_Lag

Aurelle1 wrote: »

And no one who knows that a Sorcerer without Sorcery is completely illogical will get annoyed.

SORCERER without SORCERY. Great job, ZOS

Actually, now that I think about it.. sure, I can actually live with it - IF they just take Cloak away from NBs and put it in a guild skill line (DB?) for everyone to use

PhoenixGrey

Fix the damn sustain issue with this class. It can't even sustain basic defense like hardened ward for more than 30 seconds.

NordJitsu

MagSorc is gimped in PvP, particularly battle grounds. Stamina builds and heavy armor builds reign supreme.

Two changes in particular ruined MagSorc.

First, the hardened ward nerfs were completely unnecessary and really hurt survivability. A nice compromise here would be to keep the cost increase but bump back up the damage mitigation.

On its own that change wouldn’t have been **too** bad. It’s something you can adapt to without harming overall class viability.

But the second change—to power surge—is a huge nerf for PvP.

You now have to choose between healing on critical damage (which every MagSorc wants/needs in PvP) or getting your major sorcery from a skill,

There are work around a for PvE. You can go with crit surge and use pots for major sorcery for example, which is the best option.

But in PvP there’s no way not to give something up. If you go with pots for sorcery, you can’t use Tri-Pots meaning you lose a burst heal, health recovery, and the ability to sustain your stamina (which you need for blocking and CC break). Stamina is so important in PvP this is probably the worst option.

You are left with two options, neither of which is fully viable.

1) You can stick with power surge and give up a skill slot for Rapid Regeneration or Healing Springs. This is an okay option, because it adds some healing to your teammates, but the self healing is still way too low. Because the healing from surge is now on a 3 second cool down, you can’t get enough healing even if you have 50-60% crit chance. Sacrificing a skill slot is also a big blow.

2) You can run critical surge and get major sorcery from structured entropy. This has a number of drawbacks. Again you have to give up a skill slot. The healing from entropy is weak. The major sorcery lasts less than half as long. You need a target to activate it and it can be cleansed.

Overall MagSorcs took two hits to their damage mitigation, the second of which dramatically reduces their viability. Heavy armor builds (especially DKs and Necros) were already at the top of the heap. Now there’s no worthwhile trade off for a Sorc to use magic and light armor. You’re just volunteering to be less powerful.

My other PvP main is a Stamplar. That class has some major issues as well mostly on the damage output, but when I’m in heavy armor it’s at least viable in PvP.

MagSorc got brutalized with these balance changes despite having been middle of the pack before the patch anyway.

**FIXES**

I don’t think anyone was asking for Power Surge as a healing skill and I don’t think anyone would miss it if ZOS reverted it. But if they’re going to insist on having that morph be useless, at least give Critical Surge major sorcery.

On top of either restoring Power Surge or buffing Critical Surge, the misguided cool down needs adjustment. Ideally there should be no cool down (no cool downs was a central promise of ESO’s combat system.) But if there’s going to be a cool down, at least drop it from 3 seconds to 1 second.

Thoughts? Anyone found a more viable work around while we wait for ZOS to fix this?

ArchMikem

Give Power Surge its standalone heal back. My bars are already bursting and now i have to either slot Dark Deal or back bar a Resto Staff in order to self heal.

Respeccing to Crit Surge and crafting a ton of spell power pots is tedious and expensive. Besides dont the heals scale with your max resource? Crit Surge is a stam heal. On a mag Sorc?

Chilly-McFreeze

ArchMikem wrote: »

Besides dont the heals scale with your max resource? Crit Surge is a stam heal. On a mag Sorc?

The heal doesn't. But the crit values do.

Major_Lag

NordJitsu wrote: »

Anyone found a more viable work around while we wait for ZOS to fix this?

Yes... well, kinda: don't play Sorc.

NordJitsu wrote: »

I don’t think anyone was asking for Power Surge as a healing skill and I don’t think anyone would miss it if ZOS reverted it.

Sorc was (is?) lacking a decent AoE HoT in the class toolkit.
So of course ZOS decided to completely butcher one of THE core skills that define Sorcerer as a class, instead of sacrificing another skill that is actually useless. Shattering Prison, or Crystal Blast maybe... or even Daedric Minefield.

Kenndrah

JusticeSouldier wrote: »

Shields size increased in this patch.

No they didn't.

Everyone just focuses on the cap and completely ignores the other change. They changed the way shields scale based on max magicka.

On my sorc with about 50k max mag and 27-29k health I used to have a shield that was 50% of my health. Up to just shy of 15k. Now it's about 11k.

The shield size went up in PVE and down in PVP. By the time it's halved then the cap being moved from 50% to 60% makes no difference because you're not even getting close to cap thanks to the new scaling.