[Class Rep] Sorcerer Feedback Thread

giantpixie

Empowered ward is one skill I would like to be shown some love. The shields fine I happy with that it’s the minor intellect I feel needs to be changed my reason being as far as I’ve seen only sorc healers run this skill to buff our group but do you know who else can give this buff? Wardens and they can do it so much better making the sorcs application kinda redundant so I would like instead of granting minor intellect for it to grant another buff maybe minor heroism as no class can currently provide this buff to a group? If not that just something unique to give sorcs healers a little bit more love

Delparis

I still don't understand why i should put the same pet skill on both on my bars in order to keep it up.
with both of my pets i can only use 6 skills on all my skill bars.
You need to ask ZoS to remove this condition to open more tool kit to pet sorc.

Saril_Durzam

Need. More. Sustain.

Atm on patch, Heavy Attacks are a thing.

PandaPalace

My thoughts
I think they should change mage fury act as reverse execute to go along with the Amplitude
Passive and give stam morph and turn 1 of the lightning splash morphs to stam and be a tornado. Also why no air atro yet?

zvavi

@Saril_Durzam get the single target trap morph and use it to sustain, hehe. vAS, vSS, vCR, works wonders in all content.

Commancho

Lack of stamina morphs and lack of emergency heal if you don't want to run pets. Dark exchange has long and annoying animation.

Saril_Durzam

@zvavi currently already using that morph due it´s better on trials (more single target damage) and solo (lots of resources in return). But that morph only works (for resources) on such kind of play, or maybe in trash packs, and the damage has been sustantially nerfed in PST.

Doubt it will be useful if it stays this way.

On the other way, Dark Pact cd to 1 sec? not bad. Why not 0.8 secs so i can weave it and not lost any GCD? Then id include it for sure. Can use Spell Symmetry but that´s mainly for parsings, on real fights is very risky.

VaxtinTheWolf

Whew.. A little tired after the amount of digging I had to do to find this thread (Page 6).


I was thinking about how to improve the Twilight Tormentor after a recent post I made. An idea that I think is simple enough is if it attacks every two seconds (I think?), then activating the ability should also throw it into a frenzy to allow it to cut it's BAT in half to zap a target every second for the duration, in addition to the current effect it has. This would at least give it an effect to use when the enemy is below 50% health. I don't know for sure, but I thought it would have been something interesting.

Also, here is that post I mentioned, should they ever consider making pets one bar.

VaxtinTheWolf wrote: »

If you that are asking for it, get the one-bar pets, you know that they might heavily adjust the skills as well.

Even so, if they were using one slot, I'm imagining something like a fire-and-forget gameplay. Familiar pulses on it's own while in combat, but with an internal cooldown. Clannfear probably loses it's heal to mitigate the sorcerer's incoming damage like the Necromancer's ghost, since that's still Tank-friendly and would make shields slightly more durable. The Twilight Matriarch would likely just pulse an average heal every x amount of seconds between basic attacks. Don't know what the Tormentor would do.

universal_wrath

Cernunnos55 wrote: »

Saril_Durzam wrote: »

Calboy wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

JusticeSouldier wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

You guys are crazy if you think Stam Sorc needs any kind of buff. Mag Sorc, or Light Armor users in general, desperately need something to counter damage. There is a CP allocation that directly adds damage against shields, on top of ignored mitigation from spell/phys penetration. There is no answer to this except bastion, which adds to shield size but not strength, and it isn't that much. Maybe fix bastion and it sorts itself out.

seems the only thing u play is magsorc and with not a big experience.
try stam dude, compare with another stam classes, fight vs magsorcs and another magclasses, especially magtemplar in this patch.
your reality in eso will change drastically.

Just did, had a couple race change tokens so I tried an orc Stam Sorc out. It has the best PvP utility out of every melee class currently. Alot of passive health regen, unpurgable dot, speed, heals on crits, an 8% Stam buff that buffs health/Stam regen by 20%, dark conversion heal and regen...do you really need me to go on? Tell me another class that is tailor made more then this to be a monster in PvP?

Let me guess, you want implode back so you don't even have to execute.

You are right, stam sorc doesn't need a 'buff'. What people are actually asking for is more useful active class abilities. At the moment the only stamina costing skill is hurricane, which offers amazing class identity but that's it.

Stam sorcs have amazing utility with dark deal, surge and streak but they are all so magicka intensive. Maybe a stamina streak could be good?

Bound armament offers great passives but that's the thing, they are passives. It's not fun playing a game with limited bar space and then slotting passive skills. This could be changed to offer a more active direct damage skill as the only class skill stam sorc have that does physical damage is the fire and forget hurricane.

An improvement to streak mechanics, bound armor offering more than passive buffs, and a physical class ultimate is all stam sorc really need. If done right, those changes should add flavour to the class without adding to its damage potential.

Stamsorcs need more group utility. Maybe not in Pvp, but for sure in PvE. There is PvE at this game, even if many players cba, remember...

You are not seriously advocating the perspective that the developers choose PvPers over PvEers right? Half of the things that cripple PvPers are complaints from PvEers.

Have of the things that criple PvEers are complaints from PvPers.

Schattenfluegel

And the wheel is turning around...

Lord-Otto

I'm gonna break the whee- WAIT! That didn't turn out so well...
(>.>)

teladoy

I play magicka sorcerer mainly in PVP and I have no frustrations, in pve also not. Maybe it lacks in stamina morphs, maybe personally I would like to see a bolt scape or rune prision stamina morphs.

Bobby_V_Rockit

And here we go, I’ll go boil some water...

malistorr

Thank you to the dev for putting Major Sorcery back in surge. I now have another skill I can use that I actually like instead of being forced to use Structured Entropy. Now I can play pretty much like I did pre-23 and the game is much more fun again.

Starlock

malistorr wrote: »

Thank you to the dev for putting Major Sorcery back in surge. I now have another skill I can use that I actually like instead of being forced to use Structured Entropy. Now I can play pretty much like I did pre-23 and the game is much more fun again.

I'm happy they've changed this too, but looking at the patch notes I'm wincing.

My sorcerer is a lightning mage and almost all of his signature damage tools are being changed in a bad way. They are getting huge cost increases along with reduced effectiveness. While I won't know how it feels until the change drops, the numbers are significant enough that I know that even a player like me is going to notice it. Doing the math, it will suck up half (HALF!) of his entire magicka bar just getting going with his usual spells. The usual spells being - power surge (~4k magicka) + Lightning Flood (~5k magicka) + Unstable Wall (~5k magicka). That's 14k, which is around half of his magicka pool... just getting started without casting proactive defenses like wards or getting into any spammables.

Is it really the intention of the developers to make lightning mages operate like this? Because "fun" isn't the word I would use to describe this situation.

Gabe42

malistorr wrote: »

Thank you to the dev for putting Major Sorcery back in surge. I now have another skill I can use that I actually like instead of being forced to use Structured Entropy. Now I can play pretty much like I did pre-23 and the game is much more fun again.

Starlock wrote: »

malistorr wrote: »

Thank you to the dev for putting Major Sorcery back in surge. I now have another skill I can use that I actually like instead of being forced to use Structured Entropy. Now I can play pretty much like I did pre-23 and the game is much more fun again.

I'm happy they've changed this too, but looking at the patch notes I'm wincing.

My sorcerer is a lightning mage and almost all of his signature damage tools are being changed in a bad way. They are getting huge cost increases along with reduced effectiveness. While I won't know how it feels until the change drops, the numbers are significant enough that I know that even a player like me is going to notice it. Doing the math, it will suck up half (HALF!) of his entire magicka bar just getting going with his usual spells. The usual spells being - power surge (~4k magicka) + Lightning Flood (~5k magicka) + Unstable Wall (~5k magicka). That's 14k, which is around half of his magicka pool... just getting started without casting proactive defenses like wards or getting into any spammables.

Is it really the intention of the developers to make lightning mages operate like this? Because "fun" isn't the word I would use to describe this situation.

I'm also very happy about Major Sorcery coming back to surge! Happy to see that they listened to our feedback

The mana costs seem quite high will have to do lots of heavy attacking I guess.

malistorr

I forget where it was, probably in update 22 or 23 notes...
But I read from the dev that they are purposely trying to nerf damage people are doing. They didn't outright say it but in their opinion fights were too fast and easy. They basically said we're going to force people to have to change their builds to be more sustain and/or defensive so you can keep up your (lower) dps in a longer fight. So I'm surprised to hear all the complaining from people about sustain and how the LA weavers can't keep up their rotations for so long with their old sets. The dev basically said if you don't switch a set to something like False Gods or use a couples sustain glyphs and start heavy attacking once in a while, you're going to have problems. Yet people keep complaining. Maybe the dev will get tired of reading the comments in the forum and make a change some day, it's possible. But these changes were intentional and they WANTED to move the game in that direction. They wanted to make changes to force people to lower their DPS by increasing sustain and defense. So good luck with all the complaining because I don't think this is going to change any time soon. Instead of buffing the monsters/enemies they're nerfing the viable DPS of many builds. I guess I'm lucky since I have a heavy attack focused build, sustain is never an issue. All the big cost increases to things don't matter to me one bit. I didn't need to change my gear at all. And even with them nerfing AOE dps on a few skills it seems like I'm doing as much or more damage as ever. (probably because I finally got the Maelstrom lightning staff). I guess I would be bummed about the changes as well if I played like the weavers. The dev. has given people tools to fix their sustain problems, but people just don't want to change and use them. Never mind heavy attacking, here is some help just with skills alone:

Capacitor passive = magicka recovery
Endless Fury = over 3,500 magicka returned per enemy killed with this skill
Energy Overload restores magicka
Empowered Ward = 10% extra magicka recovery for 10-seconds
Rebate passive = magicka restored when pet unsummoned or killed
Dark Exchange (or Dark Conversion morph) restores 6,000 total magicka
Unholy Knowledge passive = lower cost of magicka abilities
Elemental Drain steals magicka from enemy and give it to you and allies
Destruction Expert = Big magicka restore when killing an enemy with a staff ability

FinrodMacBeorn

malistorr wrote: »

I forget where it was, probably in update 22 or 23 notes...
Capacitor passive = magicka recovery
Endless Fury = over 3,500 magicka returned per enemy killed with this skill
Energy Overload restores magicka
Empowered Ward = 10% extra magicka recovery for 10-seconds
Rebate passive = magicka restored when pet unsummoned or killed
Dark Exchange (or Dark Conversion morph) restores 6,000 total magicka
Unholy Knowledge passive = lower cost of magicka abilities
Elemental Drain steals magicka from enemy and give it to you and allies
Destruction Expert = Big magicka restore when killing an enemy with a staff ability

Perhaps you should say where you're coming from. People like mid-tier raiders progressing through vMoL etc. and trying to complete vDLCs suffer a lot from the sustain nerves, and they are rightfully complaining. magSorcs in particular with even FG and Breton! and at the iron atro with all buffs and synergies run out of magicka in the long run - my stamSorc (Redguard, but no sustain set) works much better though I am yet far from good with his new rotation). For them, most of your comments are completely irrelevant:
Endless fury and destruction expert: good luck in a long bossfight to kill something at all before the fight ends - and: with the restrictive bar space of sorcs, you won't have fury and a staff ability equipped (except perhaps ulti) anyhow.
Dark exchange: cumbersome and dangerous in dynamic fights where you have to move on the spot frequently. As a dev stated some time ago: difficult to pull off, but then very satisfying if it succeeds - ok for me, but not as the main source of sustain.
Energy overload: you'll activate atro or destro ulti on CD, and you will need it - so, no place for overload.
Rebate passive: pets don't die - and unsummoning and resummoning costs time and more magicka than you'll get back.
Empowered Ward: also irrelevant in group; you'll have a healer, so you'll use a shield rarely in the few ... moments.
So, only 2 passives and eledrain (provided by the healer) are remaining which do not suffice to cover the raised costs. Of course, I assume that you'll use potions on CD, too.

For solo content (vMA and soloing world bosses) you're mainly right regarding the tools. However, I remember with horror vMA with even heavy-attack pet-Sorc after Morrowing sustain nerves. Haven't checked how it works now - fortunately, I have all I want from this place.

malistorr

I just passed vMA about 10-times with my single-bar heavy attack build to get my staff. Now I'm done. It wasn't that bad. All it took was practice. Luckily I'm high level and have really good gear. Your comments just reinforce mine. The dev is forcing people to have to consider sustain more and more. Whether that is gear, traits, glyph, CP, mundus, attributes, whatever doesn't matter. They may even be trying to force people to heavy attack for all I know. I'm just lucky that none of this matters to me I guess. If people keep complaining I'm sure they'll lower the cost of some abilities next patch. They seem to be see-sawing back and forth every other patch. They adjust too much 1-way and then go back the next.

Galarthor

Rune Cage needs an overhaul. In PvP it is pretty much nothing but a waste of a global cooldown and precious magicka.

Rune Cage is also bugged:
1) it shows false positives - i.e. combat cue says "stunned" on the target, when it actually dodged the stun
2) the icon is not greyed out when the target got CC immunity from pots (and potentially abilities). Works for immunity from CC breaking.

Shantu

malistorr wrote: »

I forget where it was, probably in update 22 or 23 notes...
But I read from the dev that they are purposely trying to nerf damage people are doing. They didn't outright say it but in their opinion fights were too fast and easy. They basically said we're going to force people to have to change their builds to be more sustain and/or defensive so you can keep up your (lower) dps in a longer fight.

The question remains, the "fights were to fast and easy" for WHO? The players with YouTube channels showing off their 100k parsing? Yeah, these massive nerfs will shave maybe 2 minutes off their HM runs. It's the people who, for whatever reason, struggle with dps, have invested a lot of time and effort to be able to do vet content, make up the vast majority of the user base, whose enthusiasm for the game will take the biggest nerf of all. For these players, the majority of these changes were completely unnecessary. Yeah, I know the devs don't care about these "average" players who contribute far more to their paychecks than do the high profile elites they seem so impressed with. Besides, as long as people are spending hundreds of real dollars for pixel furnishings for their 20th home, who gives a crap.

malistorr

As a player who used a single-bar heavy attack build for pretty much my whole-time playing this game, I agree with you Shantu. However if you ask the light attack weavers, they think everyone who plays the game plays it like them. And if you're not light attack weaving and animation cancelling you are just wasting tools the dev has given you to get your DPS higher. They don't understand at all that there is a majority of the player base that either physically/mentally can't play that way, or just don't want to because they don't think that training for a video game like an olympic athlete is fun.

I know that the majority of players are trying to have fun and they play the single-player content and normal level dungeons and trials and then stop playing the game because they simply don't care for PVP and aren't good enough for vet content. The majority of people on the forum are hard-core DPSers who have no tolerance for anyone who plays in a unique or different way. So be prepared to have your comments crapped on and to be told that you're wrong or don't matter.

I wish they'd completely separate skills into PVP vs. PVE inside of having them all together as one giant mess like it is now. As for group content, they can rate the level of difficulty maybe? People who can't get elite DPS just know to avoid content rated the most difficult. Instead of a difficulty setting like there has been for games like Skyrim in the past, there is just normal and vet content. So I guess at least everyone who has lower than average DPS at least knows to avoid vet content. For me, I'm higher than average so I can contribute for most group vet-level stuff. But organized groups going for the hardest content in the game I'm sure wouldn't want me because I'm not an animation-cancelling weaver. I'm fine just sticking to the groups where I'm accepted and possibly never doing a little bit of the content that only the very elite can do.

VaxtinTheWolf

Okay, so.. Hear me out for a second.

Sorcerer

• Daedric Summoning
  
  • Rebate: Restructured this ability. This passive will now restore 250/500 Magicka or Stamina, whichever Maximum is higher, whenever one of your Daedric Summoning pets activates a critical strike. This effect can occur every 1 second.

• Storm Calling
  
  • Mages Fury:
    • Mages Wrath (Morph): Renamed (Don't know a name though) and converted this ability to become a short-ranged Stamina Execute. Summon a razor sharp blade of wind to slice through your target for (x) amount of Physical Damage. Deals up to (x%) more damage to enemies below 20% health and set them Off Balance. If you deal Critical Damage against a target that is Off Balance, they will be knocked down for 3 seconds.
      
      Additional Comment:
      Either of the morphs could probably get this change, but I just picked one at random.
  • Lightning Splash:
    • Liquid Lightning (Morph): Enemies hit by this ability will now take 5% more damage from all sources of Lightning Damage for 4 seconds, which increases to 8% at rank IV.

mocap

im using heavy AoE heavy attack rota non meta build mostly for dungeons with randoms (any difficutly). 37k dps on 3mil dummy without ele drain or anything else. All damage is AoE except Fragments, lightning staff both bars respectively. Oh and it's actually Matriarch, not Tormentor. Yet my dps droped from 45k to 37k after two last updates.

Even with new L.Flood cost i can parse 3mil easy without ele drain. Somewhere in the middle i use two heavy attacks one time depending on Fragments proc. Breton, no recovery glyphs.

In trials i switch to one pet and slot Dark whateversion due to longer fights.

Schattenfluegel

Have someone Stamsorc Dummyparses with DW?

Shaloknir

Schattenfluegel wrote: »

Have someone Stamsorc Dummyparses with DW?

I would love to see this too. I have been playing stamina sorcerer lately. The class feels GOOD and fast. Only thing I miss is delayed burst and spammable.

Schattenfluegel

Shaloknir wrote: »

Schattenfluegel wrote: »

Have someone Stamsorc Dummyparses with DW?

I would love to see this too. I have been playing stamina sorcerer lately. The class feels GOOD and fast. Only thing I miss is delayed burst and spammable.

Well you can go Frontbar: Trap (Warriorsguild), masterhunter, rapid strikes, 4. Skill from DW (dont know the word) as finisher, arnaments. Backbar: Hail, Hurricane, Injection, flex slot, arnaments.

rota: Bowbar -> swap -> anarmanents, 4x rapids, arnaments, 3x rapids + trap -> LA, swap and again...


Theoreticly its clear, but i am struggling with the new arnaments at the moment I play it with MSA Bow.

Chilly-McFreeze

Schattenfluegel wrote: »

Theoreticly its clear, but i am struggling with the new arnaments at the moment

For what it's worth there is a nice B.A. counter on esoui that can blend nicely into your crosshair. If your issue is being able to identify how many of such daggers are up. It can be quite difficult to see and counting myself can get unreliable when it lags.

Schattenfluegel

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Schattenfluegel wrote: »

Theoreticly its clear, but i am struggling with the new arnaments at the moment

For what it's worth there is a nice B.A. counter on esoui that can blend nicely into your crosshair. If your issue is being able to identify how many of such daggers are up. It can be quite difficult to see and counting myself can get unreliable when it lags.

Na thats not the problem, i got ADR and an another addon that count it. The problem is the timing and i am not sure about 3 or 4x rapid strikes/rotationrun.

Essavias

mocap wrote: »

im using heavy AoE heavy attack rota non meta build mostly for dungeons with randoms (any difficutly). 37k dps on 3mil dummy without ele drain or anything else. All damage is AoE except Fragments, lightning staff both bars respectively. Oh and it's actually Matriarch, not Tormentor. Yet my dps droped from 45k to 37k after two last updates.

Even with new L.Flood cost i can parse 3mil easy without ele drain. Somewhere in the middle i use two heavy attacks one time depending on Fragments proc. Breton, no recovery glyphs.

In trials i switch to one pet and slot Dark whateversion due to longer fights.

@mocap Could you share your build? I'm relatively new to Magsorc, and while single target is destroying everything that moves, AoE is a bit more tedious (compared to Magplar, for example).